Let’s start with the biggest news: In an Interview with Fuji managers released by DC.watch Fuji claims that the X-PRO-2 will not come any time soon. Their goal is to wait until they can deliver a “major breakthrough” on the camera development front. This is just my guess but I think they are working on a Full Frame X-Pro 2.
They also said that they want to offer a total of 20 XF lenses as soon as possible (this means 8 more lenses to come this year).
And now to the real new stuff coming soon: The XF 56mm f/1.2 and the Black X100s will be announced on Monday (January 6th).
via Fujirumors.
9 Responses
I hope Fuji is NOT wasting their efforts on FF and stick to the marvellous system they currently have. I just don’t get the FF hype – the Fuji Sensors with Fuji’s great XF lenses beat some FF cameras already now, and sensor technology improves so fast that any FF advantage will dimimish within a few months, or one sensor generation.
Just look at Sony’s A7 dilemma: good sensor, but no lenses, especially no fast lenses. We are much better off with Fuji’s X ecosystem.
It’s far too early to make any judgement on the a7/a7r. Look at it this way, the a7 is spec-wise, far better than the X-Pro 1 was, but, they launch at the same dollar value. Second, the X-Pro1 launched with 3 primes, one was garbage (18/2), one was niche (60/2.4) and one was almost identical in photometric capabilities as the 55/1.8 on the A7.
As far as starting out, the A7/A7r are better off than Fuji’s X-Pro1 was for several reasons 1) There is huge hype surrounding full frame. SOme people know the real reasons to want it, but, most just think they want it and that means sales. 2) There is a normal zoom already, a decent one at that, and there will be a 24-70/4 which photometrically outdoes anything on any APS-C mirrorless system so far (until the Samsung nx 16-50/2-2.8 comes out). 3) The 35/2.8 isn’t fast but it’s very sharp and super light and small.
FWIW, I had the A7 for several weeks with the 35/2.8 and 55/1.8 and they are capable of putting out very, very good quality images. It’s all just a little too expensive and early in its life for me so I am sticking with Fuji for at least another year.
As for Fuji making a full frame system, it’s very unlikely. First, their mount actually is just BARELY too small. They would have to force optical trickery on every lens they released or make a new mount entirely meaning all new lenses. They would need some new lenses anyway. Furthermore, their existing lens lineup addresses the capabilities of moderate priced full frame glass already. 35/1.4 is not that far from a 55/1.8 and it costs way less than Sony’s Zeiss lens. The 23/1.4 is a 35/2 which beats Sony’s 35/2.8 photometrically anyway (not size though). They have the 56/1.2 coming which will be approximately equivalent to an 85/1.8 on FF which go for about $500 from Nikon/canon (but surely would cost double or more from Sony, they overprice their gear to an extreme).
The noise performance of the X-trans sensor is very good, even if it comes at a cost of reliable acceptable output size maximums (sometimes detail issues arrive forcing you to restrict your maximum print size for good results) and the color reproduction and processing is very enjoyable so far.
Even though the A7 is about the same size as the X-E2, the X-E2 is far lighter. The A7 is a REALLY heavy camera for a mirrorless camera.
The A7 has a better EVF for sure, and I like that tilting screen. There is a lot to like about BOTH systems. But let’s face it, the cost, size, and limited amount of capability gained from going full frame does not justify Fuji to take that action at this time.
Actually, I was thinking, a far more rational/interesting move would be an all new sensor in the APS-H size. It could use the same mount. If it was 24mp or so, it could provide the same normalized performance as the existing cameras with existing lenses but also offer better performance on format specific lenses. Canon used this format for like, 5 generations. It’s a 1.3 crop instead of 1.5 crop factor. Doesn’t seem like much but it can give you the edge, overall, over Sony’s current stated strategy which is not making very large aperture lenses.
I don’t really think this will happen. Actually, I think we’ll see a resolution increase at ASP-C size soon, probably in X-Pro2. And Fuji will press on for another year pushing the envelope on APS-C lens design. At this point, they are already the only company to really take APS-C seriously from top to bottom. Samsung has a couple interesting lenses but overall it’s the same crap as all the rest of the APS-C makers. Slow, low quality garbage.
So i wouldn’t worry too much about Fuji “wasting” any time or money on FF. If they do use it, it’s likely to be in a niche product like an X200 or something, and possibly never make it into an interchangeable lens camera UNLESS they can provide the same kind of user experience without the pitfalls of Sony’s direction (high cost for same overall performance).
You are absolutely right in everything you wrote. No company would throw away the investment made in the lens line-up for APS-C and continue to develop them if they were to switch to FF. To tell you the truth, I think Fuji is trapped in its tech choices (the X brings bad luck, it seems). I never fell for the X-Pro, too big, too expensive for what it delivered, plus the Leicaesque styling was a turn off for me. A new X-Pro is really what the photo world needs now, another APS camera with ambitions to be the digital japanese Leica and a price tag to go. Give me a Sony A7/R any time.
Heheh, well, that’s kind of what Sony did right? They took an APS-C mount and made it FF. Except, since their new lenses work with their legacy APS-C cameras, they don’t have to worry about throwing away any investment because any new FE lens for FF will natively support the APS-C cameras without issue.
This solution is the only viable one for Fuji but there isn’t any certainty on their ability to build X-mount lenses that would cover a FF sensor. Their engineers have been quoted as saying the current lenses wouldn’t cover FF but that is no big surprise – neither do most of the Sony E-mount lenses. The big question is whether they can make new lenses like the Sony FE line, that would get the job done. I hear a lot of web noise saying it can’t be done but I haven’t heard Fuji confirm that directly.
If anything, the new lenses that need to be developed for a FF sensor are and will arguably be of a higher resolving quality then the ones designed for APS-C (look at the new Sony FE lenses) so this is a win-win for both camps. The lenses might cost more but the quality and upgrade path would be worth it for many.
Seems to me getting high levels of resolution to fit onto a smaller surface area is the more difficult problem to solve, than if you spread the image out over a larger surface area.
=====
Fuji’s X Mount was, is, and never will be used with 36 x 24mm sensors.
=====
The awards bestowed upon several of the XF lenses is testament enough concerning Fuji’s ability to build just about any type of lens they wished; but then, so is their XA101X8.9BESM-TK that has a current street price of $205,659.95 over at B&H Photo right now.
=====
Why do so many Sony and other gear geeks spend so much time and effort trying to discredit Fujinon’s decision to go with an APS-C size sensor, and by pass the constraints imposed by the older 35mm standard for image capture? I could just as easily pose the argument that Sony was forced to convert their mirrorless camera to larger, FF sensors because they couldn’t compete with the superior image quality Fuji is able to produce using an APS-C size sensor.
=====
Sounds like penis-envy transposed into an alternative arena to me.
You’ve made some good points, especially concerning Sony’s standard profit margin strategy. But for me, I’d rather go smaller and lighter with the Fuji system, than have to carry around all the extra weight that goes with the larger sensor size of the other camera manufacturers.
=====
I also agree with you that the major advancement the Fuji exec’s were referring to has to do with an up-coming advance in sensor design, that will push the resolution ability of the new Fuji sensor far beyond the capabilities of the older FF technology. And when this happens, my current Fujinon XF lenses will be compatible with the new camera body. But for the average amateur like me, I don’t see any advantage to be gained by demanding higher resolutions than the current technology boasts.
=====
The X-E2 has a few incremental technology advances that’s got me considering moving up from my X-E1. But a simple increase in resolution wouldn’t tempt me to change.
Calling FF “hype” is like saying medium or large format is equivalent to 35mm. The reason there are larger formats has more to do with the rendering of longer FOV lenses than things like ISO performance.
I count one “fast” lens at the Fuji launch and one at the Sony launch. Both are 50mm equivalents (or close enough) but I would take the rendering and more shallow DOF of the Zeiss 55mm 1.8 over the Fuji 35mm 1.4 any day. The 35mm is an approximation of a traditional 50mm – it still renders subject to background the same as any other 35mm except the scene is cropped. The Zeiss also has a more shallow DOF if you want it considering the Fuji’s 1.4 renders at about f/2.
I think your statement about the Fuji vs. Sony ecosystem is a bit premature and doesn’t even take into account the many awesome Minolta, Zeiss, Sony and Sigma A-Mount AF lenses that can be used with the LAEA adapters. We are talking about some of the finest lenses available, like the Zeiss 135/1.8.
It all comes across as a bit fan boyish. Fuji has a great thing going but I don’t see any dilemma in them eventually moving to FF as an option to their customer base who may otherwise be lured away by other compact FF offerings. If they stay with APS-C, that’s fine too but recognize that there are real differences between formats that are manifested by the optical properties of longer FOV lenses on a larger sensor – there is no hype, only personal choice of what look you desire for your photography.
I remember reading recently on this wiry rumor webpage that Fuji is NOT considering to go full frame with their X system. So I do not expect that. And anyhow – the X line definitely needs a new pro body anyhow, so I am rather confident that next X-Pro2 will be APS-C. When they say ‘waiting for a breakthrough’ that sounds like ‘we are late on developing/implementing of some features, but we are working on it’. 🙂
I disagree with your interpretation. Their reference to “breakthrough” sounds to me like they were acknowledging the incremental nature of the technical details incorporated in the X-E2, and the breakthrough for the X-Pro2 will be something much more revolutionary.