[shoplink 55702 ebay]
[/shoplink]
Image on top show the “old” [shoplink 55702 ebay]Leicaflex SL[/shoplink].
MirrorlessRumors.com reports the name of the name of Leica’s first mirrorless and non-rangefinder FF system camera will be “Leica SL“. This is a completely new system launched by Leica and in which Panasonic is deeply involved. Panasonic will deliver the necessary tech like processor and so on. The Leica SL will have a [shoplink 55702 ebay]Leicaflex SL alike design (cameras here on eBay)[/shoplink].
It will be very interesting to see if Panasonic will in future join the FF system with own branded cameras and lenses!
89 Responses
What does this camera (system) have in common with m4/3?? Apart from both being mirrorless..
It is a camera made by Panasonic. Whatever tech would end up in it, might also eventually end up in the m43 cameras.
Though since it is only a rumor, not an actual product announcement, I too think it doesn’t belong here. But alas we are not the Admins. And Admin seems to be very enthusiastic about it. 😉
Maybe it’ll have a 4/3 crop mode and adapter for pana lenses 😉
This would be a very useful option as m43 sensor is generally more useful for working videographers than 35mm sensor.
Panasonic and Leica collaborate on many camera products, and this is one of them. It wouldn’t surprise me if Panasonic uses the technology developed for Leica in their own cameras as they have done this for the P&S cameras that Panasonic developed for Leica.
ok but this is likely another mount, 35 mm sensor etc. so nothing to do with m4/3. So completely obsolete rumor here on 43rumors.
“What does this camera (system) have in common with m4/3??”
After the Sony A7, this camera is the second nail in the coffin for m4/3. That’s why it is newsworthy on this site.
Sure, having Leica prices in mind what would a system with bright (f/2 or better) 24, 50 and 100 mm cost? Would 20 000 suffice? Yes, it is a nail in coffin of rather every mirrorless system, LMAO
Add Samsung NX1 and Fuji to the list (Fuji uses Samsung designed Sony sensors).
Any camera related news where one of the two founding companies in the m4/3 system standard is driving technological advancement that could further translate directly to the micro 4/3 system seems very relevant to me. No, I don’t think we’ll see a FF system sprout up between Oly and Panasonic, but with larger margins in a boutique/fashion sector of the market (as is most likely the case with anything that says Leica on it) it allows more room, more of a budget to push and advance where when needing to keep it lower cost to compete (i.e.: m4/3) it can be harder to find room in the budget to really innovate. This in an of itself seems like a great benefit to anything Panasonic may be involved in moving forward.
The subtitle of the site is “Panasonic and Olympus digital camera news” so this news fits under that umbrella…
Yes..its ‘Panasonic” NEWS. ??????
Yes. The camera is going to be 90% Panasonic.
I bet the camera will be 99,9% Panasonic and probably the only thing Leica on it will be the logo (which also will be produced by Panasonic) LOL.
But in the end who cares, if the camera is grate and the customers satisfied…
Sony A7 is the first mirrorless non–rangefinder FF camera. Leica’s late to that party.
Admin is notorious for poor English, so it’s probably a poorly written headline. If you read the article, his meaning becomes clear: the Leica SL is the first FF non-rangefinder system camera released by Leica. (Of course, if you didn’t know about Sony, you might not come away with that.)
Sony is a toy, so it can be disregarded! So the headline is correct.
I doubt the Leica will allow Panasonic to market there own version of this new camera line, as it will cost boodles of money and seems like a new design from the ground up, made with specific Leica design. This is not simply the rebranding of an existing P&S camera model, and charging 3X the price for the read dot. I guess ya never know, though.
They could allow Panasonic to build their own cameras for the mount, too, and share the lens interface, so lenses are compatible. Same as m43, really. But I doubt even that will happen, as Leica probably fears for their market if Panasonic introduces a camera that is 4 times cheaper.
New Leicas have tended to be rebadged Panasonics at highly elevated prices: is it possible the reverse may be the case here? – could this be a ‘testbed’ for Panasonic to springboard into a FF system camera? The lenses may well be Lumix- sourced and the bodies certainly will be.
(I’m glad Admin pointed out that picture is the old Leicaflex SL – from 1968 in fact. It’s to be hoped the 2015/16 camera will be radically different!)
Some of my best MFT lenses are my Leica driven Panasonic lenses. No doubt.
It should not surprise you to learn that all Lumix lenses are Leica designed.
But no, not all new Leicas are re-badged Panasonics such as the VLUX and DLUX.
The Leica S is often overlooked, medium format 37Mp mirrorless ILC looking vaguely like an overgrown GH4, full price in the region of £18,000
The new SL seems to be the first mainstream Leica to use a Panasonic sensor (?) and electronics wizardry, which in itself is an interesting development.
“It should not surprise you to learn that all Lumix lenses are Leica designed”
Bunk. None of the Lumix lenses are Leica designed. Leica badged and “QC approved”, nothing more.
Strange then that if you delve into the firmware of a Lumix lens, it tells you it is a Leica. For example the Lumix 20mm reports as “Leica unknown model”. Panasonic themselves don’t actually have lens design capability.
Leica S is an SLR, not a mirrorless ILC.
Really? What are the Panasonic originals for the Leica Q, Leica S, Leica T, the three different Leica X models and the Leica X Vario?
“a completely new system”. Great! Just what we need, yet another mirrorless system.
Exactly, so a direct competitor to Sony FE mount ?
(whether the form factor is rangefinder or not, how is that the key info ? )
Note : already mentioned below :
http://petapixel.com/2015/08/26/rumor-leica-has-a-full-frame-mirrorless-camera-up-its-sleeve/
A question would be whether sharing the Sony FF mirror-less mount(FE mount) has been discussed or not.
Strictly theoretically speaking, If the choice is only between FE mount and a new mount, the latter is definitely better, because the FE mount is suboptimal for lens design.
In which aspects ? (I don’t know much about that at all).
But I guess the biggest part around a “mount standard” these days, is about the electronic signaling specification and normalisation aspetcs.
I’m speaking as a layperson here. The E mount barely covers the full frame image circle, and makes it difficult to design compact lenses, and lenses with good corner performance, because the light falls in in especially unfavorable angles.
“Barely covers the FF circle” – yet they managed to stuff image stabilization in there too. Layperson here too, but there are no “proper” FL distance and mount size, as far as I understand.
As to compact lenses, what are we comparing with? The new 15mm Voigtlander is quite small and works great. The only smaller designs would be older ones for Leica, which only perform decently thanks to very specific sensor design and built-in corrections.
Too short flange focal distance for FF sensor – effects corner sharpness and thus to have good corner sharpness lenses have to be larger with more complex designs.
In the off chance Admin reads comments: this is a poorly written headline. Of course Sony has had a FF non-rangefinder mirrorless camera for some time. If you read the article or follow the link, the correct meaning becomes clear: the Leica SL is the first FF non-rangefinder system camera released by Leica.
Chasing for hits, ranks and affiliates is the main goal of this site. Wanting to generate an income with a website isn’t a bad thing. But ppl here is probably waiting for more than commercial links to stores (BH and al) or e-bay… I mean, give quality content, and you’ll generate more hits, ranks, affilitates clicks as a side effect…
Note: I’ll probably get censored in less than 10 minutes… so I’m already out! 🙂
Really, people way too often assume intent behind everything. Somehow humans have trouble accepting the idea that a lot of stuff just happens as an unintended or at least unplanned consequence. A lot of bad stuff happens without a bad intent in the first place (ditto for good stuff).
Unfortunately, Leica is closer to a break down than a break through. Zeiss, Sigma and others have systematically captured the lens market that Leica could have shared.
By insisting on selling outdated and overpriced camera bodies Leica has resorted to relabeling Panasonic mechanisms.
The missing technology that has kept the mirrorless camera from de-crowning the DSLR will most likely be coming from Sony, not from Leica.
Left for Leica is to continue making ordinary but overpriced cameras as fashion accessories.
Um, Leica definitely still has a lot of money and engineering power. They introduced the X series, the T series, the Q, and a new S and M in the last few years. Sure, lots of duds in this, but if Leica was so close to breakdown, they surely wouldn’t be able to push out so many products.
Last I checked Leica sales represented 3% of the market. I suspect Leica will continue on that same path as long as they can.
Sure they will. I guess their profits are stunning in relation to the market share.
Not at all. Leica was loosing money before 2010 when they reduced expenses and became a 100% privately owned company. Their prices are dictated by low volume, high quality production.
Leica says: ” To lower the prices would require to lower the quality of the cameras — something that Leica has no plans of doing.”
The relabeled Panasonic cameras are another story.
And both the m43 camera makers have been losing money since 2010 despite selling much higher volumes.
Leica have carved out a niche for themselves and will continue to sell overpriced cameras in small volumes as they have retained their heritage and brand recognition.
Hassleblad on the other hand…..
Your loyalty to a technologically insignificant camera manufacturer is admirable.
I agree with your pessimism about the M43 format. With the onslaught of good camera phones the 1″ and M43 formats are probably the first to be run over.
I see only one significant sector where M43 could find refuge, and that is for birding. The 2:1 crop factor lends itself to offering reasonable sized equipment with effective focal lengths up to 600 mm or longer.
However, neither Olympus nor Panasonic have yet taken advantage of this niche market refuge, probably because of its limited size.
I understand that Olympus Zuiko is working on a Pro prime 300 mm lens. I would consider an OMD with this lens for birding, and I would probably expand its use with other relatively long lenses for small targets like portraits and other uses as well.
Apple could and did survive for more than a decade with 10% or less marketshare of the PC industry — it went down to about 5% at one point. Mainly because their covetable hardware enabled them to maintain high profit margins that were the envy of other PC makers.
.
In a crowded market where even volume players are making losses, having a small but luxurious niche is not a bad strategy. Especially when you have limited resources like Leica.
.
Apple went on to dominate the PC industry by continually innovating and breaking through with new category devices. It sounds like Leica is trying to start doing the same, particularly now that they have their new HQ base. They did so-so with the X, a miss with the T, but a hit with the Q, and now I think they are using the Q platform like an auto manufacturer uses a common platform to push new products out the door at a faster rate.
The key to Apple’s success was Steven Job’s outstanding technological intuition and creativity. You probably remember the years when Steve was sidelined by greedy economists and Apple was close to falling off the tree. With Steve’s kind of creativity Leica could very well rise from a marginal existance to star status.
Leica recently pulled back from trading it’s shares to become a 100% private owned company. Whether this speaks for creativity and progress remains to be seen.
P.S. I am beginning to see a trend among some of my fellow photographers: They buy Leicas and Sonys to go mirrorless, but a few weeks later they are back in the field using their old DSLRs. I ask them why and the answers vary, but I think it has to do with balance and handling. The mirrorless cameras many times weigh almost as much as a DSLR, but they do not always have a comfortable gripp and they have not refined menus and controls to the level of the DSLRs. Don’t get me wrong, I have been searching for an excuse to switch to a quiet, vibration free, mirrorless camera and I have purchased and tried a few, but I am still waiting for the real break through.
Leica has been in a lot of trouble, so how much of a niche it has carved remain to be seen; especially considering some current rumors. What is more revealing, imho, is that they are straying heavily from the heritage you are talking about. Leica T, now Leica SL. They are trying to adapt.
Well, if it will have an good lens package and versatility (read weatherproof) that would make it an interesting object. FF have a definitely better rendering of light than m4/3 and said honestly, I am tired of Olympus policy of restyling the outside fro three four years while nothing changes inside. I would like to see all the good stuff developed by Olympus so far on a FF sensor bigger than 16 MP… no need for 35, but in-between would be nice.
I’m sure it will be priced well outside of my allotted camera budget. So, for me it’s just another system I’ll never own, just like the A7rii.
More mirrorless FF can attract third-party lens producers
Btw A7RM2 is expensive but older models fall in price
But not really to a point where they are competitively priced with m4/3…especially the lenses (ones that that have AF built-in). Anyhow that just my opinion, besides, I really don’t see the purpose of buying into FF with how I like to shoot. I’ll gladly continue to use my EM1, especially with the new firmware coming out soon.
I’d say the a7 is very competitively priced, although it does lack in features. As to AF lenses, Sony seems to be taking their time in releasing cheaper alternatives, but then for manual ones it wins completely.
This camera is aimed at the photographic elite, that is why it will have a Samsung sensor. You are not part of the elite, you can’t hang. Sorry
That’s ok…you’ll soon need to find a new camera manufacturer Mr. Samsung, since it is rumored that they are going discontinue their camera division.
Wrong ! http://www.mirrorlessrumors.com/good-news-samsung-says-rumors-are-not-true-they-will-stay-in-the-camera-business/
Your link says: ‘there is no official plan to stop production’, well, sounds like a wait and see where there’s smoke situation.
Looks aren’t important, but I’m still surprised how fugly that Leica is compared to how nice some of their other modern models look. But yeah, taste is subjective. That’s just my op.
The “Image on top show the “old” Leicaflex SL.”
you damn right, I’m damn wrong 🙂
Damn you are stupid
Obviously you have someone in your life who makes you feel so bad about yourself, that you have to put others down just to feel a little better. I recommend you separate that person from your life and move on. Because people like an idiot more than they like an a$$hole.
Title WTF? The first non-rangefinder FF is Sony A7.
I think we all know that admin isn’t the best writer and that he doesn’t give a damn about it.
If you were to read a headline like ‘First mirrorless and non-rangefinder FF system camera’ on a blog called Leicarumors, one could accept that the implication is that this refers to Leica’s first mirrorless and non-rangefinder FF system camera. The admin thought adding the word Leica to the headline would have the same effect but this doesn’t quite work. In the article itself it says correctly: Leica’s first mirrorless and non-rangefinder FF system camera.
Why would Panasonic want to build a FF camera? Full Frame is the past, m4/3 is the future.
The Leica “SL” may be the camera that kills the Leica brand. An R10D would have been a good idea, 5 years ago, not so much now.
Leica pays them to do it. Panasonic probably contributed AF-system and other electronics (if the rumour is true).
Leica wants to build a FF “SL,” why would Panasonic want to waste their money on a sinking ship??
Agreed. But I wish they would
FF is the past? Tell that to Sony, their A7 series is quite popular. If anything, APS-C is going to be crushed between m43 and FF.
“PFFTTT!!”
FUJIFILM would like a word with you….
Fuji is capitalizing on vintage design appeal. Their cameras fall behind Sony, Olympus, and Panasonic in all measurable aspects.
And? They sell.
MrALLCAPS was implying that APS-C still had some use because Fuji sells lots of them.
I’m saying that Fuji sells lots of them not because of their quality (which is impeccable, but not better than micro-4/3), but because of their packaging.
It doesn’t matter. We are talking about whether APS-C is going to be “crushed” or not. If they sell, they will survive. And they are not even the only APS-C mirrorless.
I disagree that it doesn’t matter. It’s important to know WHY they sell. If the public loses its taste for vintage design, then Fuji will lose out.
True, if you want to hypothesize about the future. And what if people lose their taste for smaller sensors? Or, bigger ones?
Well, that’s where m43 is going to be threatened by 1″ sensor cameras like the RX100 and RX10. Compactness is a major selling point. But I think non-interchangeable lens cameras will always have an image of being for casuals, not professionals, so m43 isn’t being threatened *that* much, not as much as APS-C is by m43, and no one has a decent ILC system based on 1″ sensors.
I don’t think people will ever lose their taste for bigger sensors. Bigger sensors just allow you to have so much more control over the light that I think pros (and especially prosumers, who always want more than they actually need) will be loathe to give them up entirely.
I think that m43 is threatened by APS-C (not to mention FF to an extent), as much as the other way around. As to compacts, it will be difficult to completely supersede interchangeable lens cameras, but they are already satisfying many users – from the fixed lens int the iPhone to the X100 and RX1 – which might prove sufficient to take out some companies out of business, no matter how great the gear they make.
“Packaging” (design) and user experience also sell Leicas. I like that Panny seems to be picking up some Leica style. And that APSC and M43 are very close. As are APSC and FF. But M43 to FF should offer a noticeable difference and I hope Panny adds a FF lineup in addition to continuing with M43
Correct, Leica only sells because of its packaging.
“And that APSC and M43 are very close. As are APSC and FF. But M43 to FF should offer a noticeable difference”
I agree, and that’s why I think M43 + FF are the formats most likely to succeed in the mirrorless domain.
APS-C mirrorless offers no real advantage in terms of compactness compared to FF, and no real advantage in terms of image quality compared to M43.
I have to disagree. I have both M43 and FujiX cameras in the GX1, G6 and XE2. And the XE2 wins in IQ easily, especially in low light and dynamic range, Easily.
Now, my G6 and formerly owned GX7 was a more enjoyable camera to use, but I will go with the end result image everytime, which would be my XE2.
And judging from also owning a Canon 6D, APS-C especially from Fujifilm are closer to Full Frame, than M43 is to APS-C.
I don’t see any sensor improvement out of M43. Panasonic just released a 20mp sensor, with what, 15% better images? Barely negligible. Meanwhile, Fujifilm has a better sensor, lens selection is not as big as M43, but it’s getting there, plus the lens quality is superb. I’d bet y’all would cringe, seeing comparisons from the P/L25mm (which I love), compared to the Fujinon 35mm lens.
Sony is a consumer electronics company. They can’t make enough profit from the small number of Full Frame Fans to keep FF going. The α7 will join the Vaio, 3D TV and other low-profit lines on the discount/fire sale sites.
“Sony is a consumer electronics company.”
Like that matters (btw, Panasonic can be defined in the exact same way and they also stopped a big part of their TV production). Sony had the largest worldwide market share in mirrorless even before the a7 series and they are currently making profit. TVs and Vaios were left out, because their high-end gear was severely challenged by cheaper alternatives. Who is going to challenge them now? m43 is pricey and constantly losing its advantages. I would be more worried about m43 disappearing.
“SL” means “Super Luxus” or “Single Lens” or…?
Silly Leitz
At this price point Leica is competing only with itself–the M market.
If it wants to compete with Sony, it needs to half the price. The good
thing is this move puts a price cap on Sony, as the latter has grown a bit out
of control
“It will be very interesting to see if Panasonic will in future join the FF system with own branded cameras and lenses!”
^^ Who the f*** cares?! I wish they never will since that would mean less m4/3 cameras/lenses for us. It would only be a bad thing if Pana decided to join the FF world (which is already so goddamn overrated anyway). Medium format or m4/3 – everything else is futile. 🙂
Sorry admin but the title is totally misleading. The whole Sony A7 series is mirrorless; FF and non rangefinder style. So Leica is not the first at all!
The rumored price makes it unlikely but maybe Panasonic’s ability to mass manufacture at high quality will lure Leica back into a more mainstream premium rather than luxury price to challenge SONY. I’d buy that camera