The graph on top has been posted by Flickr and shows the “mirrorless share” of the Flickr members. As you see Sony is growing and Micro Four Thirds shrinking. Fuji is doing really well and maybe Sony should learn from it and do the following:
1) Copy the “kaizen” philosophy. It means offer constant support and firmware upgrades on all cameras.
2) Create a spot on lens line with not to expensive and very necessary prime and zoom lenses.
Do you agree with me SAR readers? 🙂
And here are the most popular mirrorless cameras on Flickr:
83 Responses
Yeah, it’s the two things you mention which are keeping me with Fuji at the moment. They really look after us with useful firmware updates, and the lenses are sensible focal lengths and a consistent lineup, and are absolutely stellar image quality without being big and bulky. There’s even weather sealing now.
The biggest FW update I’d like to see from Sony is better manual focus options. They need to just go out and shoot an X-T1 or X100T for a day on split image mode, or ERF mode. It makes it a breeze and I can think of no reason this wouldn’t be just a firmware update.
If they implemented just that I’d seriously consider moving to Sony FF.
Is Samsung’s market share so small that it doesn’t fit in the graph or did somebody just forget about it?
Samsung is NOBODY in the photography industry!
This is really interesting. Samsung has a hell lot of cash and is filling up it’s lens lineup at an amazing speed but it still struggles for exposure. I think Flickr didn’t count in Samsung, nor Nikon’s 1 or Canon’s M.
Indeed. And I remember the time when they were NOBODY in TV and mobile phones industry. I certainly hope they make it to the top of photography industry (which will certainly happen in some 15 years or so)
Samsung new mirrorless camera sales while are fairly close to the levels of the other major sellers..and with the new 28mp backside illuminated apsc mirrorless camera about to be released may actually take the lead or at least close the gap. Sony is still using Exmor…frontside illuminated…for thier apsc when they should be using Exmor R for both apsc and ff…this will allow higher resolution and greater sensetivity at smaller pixel sizes.
This flicker chart is totally unrealistic indication of new camera sales.
Make no mistake..Samsung is a force that Sony needs to take very seriosly…thier tv division should have taught them that.
Samsung will be the 2nd go to full frame mirrorless arena after Sony!
Samsung new cameras are actually selling very well…this chart does not reflect actual camera sale reality.
Oh, and uncompressed RAW. For goodness sake.
Lossless compressed.
seems like the majority of sony cameras owned are 2 to 3 years old on flickr
All NEXes… LOL
You mean apart from that A7 at number 2.
Whatever, another NEX. Not a single Sony DSLR.
LOL, what?
A list of mirrorless cameras is hardly likely to show a DSLR, is it?
according to the list the % are very low for the top ten. How does the 11…100 look like?
less
I wonder what camera models don’t show in the graph, but must be selling massively. If I add up all the numbers, I don’t reach 100 % by far… Maybe a lot of people keep the brand they’re using to themselves, being it a total irrelevant fact?
Sony needs to make laea4 adapters in Canon and Nikon mount versions.
When Canikon enters the marked in a serious manor and IF thier cameras are compattable with Canikon glass they will clobber Sony in the mirrorless market.
It is only the lack of a serious Canikon presence that has allowed Sony to succeed…sort of like how early mammals flourished after the extinction of the dinosaurs that previosly ruled the world.
The only differrence is that Canon and Nikon are not extinct…just sleeping!
Sony creating adapter for canikon mount isnt ip infringement or something? Just wanna be clear 🙂
I do not think it is copyright infringement and this is why.
3rd party manufacturers reverse engineer lenses to fit Canon mount..eg. Sigma.
Canon in a recent official statement acknowledged that, and stated that they are not responsible for new camera desighn changes that may render 3rd party accessories or lenses not backwards compatable.
I see no way Canon or Nikon can allow everyone else to make products to fit thier mount and prohibit Sony from doing so.
Secondly and probably more importantly…both Canon, Nikon, and Sony mounts have been available long enough that patent protection has expired and anyone can make products to fit.
A chinese lens manufacturer has recently recieved a lot of attention for making exact clones of out of patent Canon ‘ll ense…to the exact same specifications.
So I believe Sony could use thier slt technology to produce Canikon versions of thier laea4 type adapter…since this technology is newer and still proprietary it is possible that ONLY SONY can make this product.
I hate to be the bearer of bad news 🙂 You’ve been basically saying the same thing over and over for many months now. Sony will NEVER produce an LA-EA4 adapter for Canon and Nikon lenses. You can scream it from every mountain top until the day you die – it will not happen. I suppose a third party company could try although it would be expensive and serve such a tiny market that they would likely never get a full return on their investment; but it will never be Sony.
I am fully aware I say certain things over and over.
There are thousands of comments pn SAR. Although I am certain Sony is aware of whay we talk about here a single comment will not be noticed.
You are very aware that I have said those comment many times, but how many of the many coments I have made once can you remember.
I have said many times …since nex came out…that E mount should have IBIS …I have been highly critisized for doing so and have been told over and over again by the majority of SAR commentors that it will never happen and cannot be done…but that never stopped me…now we have it and it is a big success and everyone loves it.
I have been asking for extreme resolution over and over again…and this is still my highest priority..I hop we will finally see this soon…and when 8k comes out by 2020 those who have been shooting in 50mp will be glad they do mot have to reshoot everything that was good enough in 2014.
So back to the more relevent topic of laea4 type adapters for Canikon lenses..
There is absolutely no question the technology exists and can easily be adapted to the task.
There is sufficient precident tjat Sony could do it and easily withstand legal challenge if anuone chooses towaste tje time to make a challenge.
There is also no question that such a move would benefit Sony, especially once Canikon make a serious mirrorless challenge.
I actually would rather Sony did not do as I asked but rather figured out how to make the system itself fully compatable.
So in the meantime this is what I would like to see and Sony would be wise to listen
As for it will never happen? I do not accept that answer.
When Sony do so they will probably get some lawers from Canikon to tell them to stop producing them… You not only need the hardware (the rings etc. But also the software (the protocol the camera is using to focus fast). This is not open source, so it will be hard for Sony to make those adapters without problems with Canikon..
Then when Canikon come with their own serious attempt on a mirrorless camera, they have to compeet with the 4th or 5th generation of the Sony mirrorless cameras. When they make their cameras compatible with the old lenses the camera has to be very thick compared with the other mirrorless cameras (look at the Pentax K-01, Or they have to use an adapter for their lenses. In the first case the camera won’t be a success under the people who want a small mirrorless camera, in the second way people will complain they need an adapter for the old lense (it is never good you know) so Canikon has to make new native mirrorless lenses for their new system, and will be two years behind (when they make a FF mirrorless, or 4 1/2 year behind on Sony…
They can make sensor Z-shift and improve their own focusing algorithms so Canon lenses will focus better with available 3rd party adapters
btw Does Sigma receive lawsuits for reverse engineering CaNikon protocols? I remember the only lawsuit about OIS (VC) technology.
I’ll be amazed if Sony (or any other manufacturer) produced a Z-shift AF camera. It’s got too many disadvantages, such as limited focus accommodation (especially for long focal length lenses), mechanical complexity and a very considerable increase in camera bulk.
People also said that 5 axis IBIS was going to be impossible on E mount because of bayonet and flange distances. I wouldn’t be so sure that Sony can’t overcome these disadvantages.
Yes, and they also said before E-mount ain’t gonna fit full frame…
having Z-shift focusing doesn’t prevent from having in-lens focusing like IBIS can work together with in-lens OIS.
See my response to Red Dango as to why I believe copyright infringement is not an issue.
”
The number of Flickr members owning a Sony mirrorless cameras is growing.”
Of course! How many models of cameras they have? 🙂
Is that important?
Competition is a good thing, benefits all camera users.
Meanwhile, February is near.
What about those supposed huge A-Mount announcements?
Many people are waiting to see if there is any future for the Sony system yet
That’s what I’m waiting for too.
@Admin: When will the “rumor” see the light?
If there are rumors please show them before they are off dated by news.
If there is no rumor then publish it as a A-mount-News.
They will probably follow Canon and make the huge A-mount announcement: ‘we made a new website and slogan for a-mount users!!” hurraaay!
Are we really talking about rumors of rumors?!?
What huge A mount announcements…Sony has not indicated that there will be any huge A mount anouncements…they only claim they eill continue to support A mount….for whatever that vague non commitment of a statement may actually mean.
Then I misunderstood the Interview at Photokina 2014 where it was stated to wait until Feb 2015 for A-mount.
Reread Sony interviews carefully…they are carefully worded to keep A mount users waiting and hoping but do not actually commit to much of anything.
Then let’s wait until Feb. 2015 and decide for an “all in” on A-mount future or “I’m out” on E-mount future.
Sony cannot in the near future come close to competing with Canikon glass.
A mount lens selection is lacking, and E mount lens selection is a pitifull joke…absolutely no long lense…its rediculouse.
They build the most popular focal length so people that dont know any better might actually think they are dealing withva real camera system.
Sony can actually remedy this sorry state of affairs by making a version ov the laea4 adapter for Canon and Nikon mount to Sony E mount.
I for example plan to buy a Sigma 150-600 sport lens and thier new global vision teleconverter.
These will not be produced for Sony mount, so I am waiting to see what comes out in Feb .
I will then determine whether to get a new Canon or Nikon camera to go with that lens..in the appropriate mount…
The long shot option is that mayby a new long lens will be anounced that will work on Sony, or that sony will make the adapter I keep talking about.
I’m in hope that Sony finally shows with facts the commitment to A-mount so that everone knows what to expect in future and act accordently.
Hopefully you will get the lense you wish in the mount you prefer 🙂
Uhm, it competes with ease. Just look at 55f1.8 at dxomark. Or are you talking solely about quantity?
Ther are tons of 55 mm for the Sony..or for any camera..amd everyone has good ones.
There is however no versatility..only lotsand lots and lots of of the same old common short to portraight lengths that the average snapshooter uses.
Sony is not building a full collection of lenses for all uses…as for thier selection of long lenses and tele macros for E mount there are NONE…NOT ONE SINGLE SUPERTELE, SUPERTELE ZOOM OR TELE MACRO…NOT ONE!
For A mount there are a few leftovers fro the bygone minolta age and a few remakes…but nothing to compare to the Canon or Nikon selection of speciality glass.
Thats the differrence…Sony produces npthing but ordinary glass…if you need anything else forget about it.
Fuji-philosophy produces many beta-products, that will be fixed afterwards. Many first-generation Fuji-X lenses had firmware/ + focusing motors that can’t utilise new Fuji-camera focusing algorithms optimally. That’s why they are already releasing many second generations lenses. Also many Fuji-camera firmware releases are just bug-fixes or adding features that should been there from day one. So no, I won’t want to see same philosophy in Sony-products.
Nonsense.
Sense. That is precisely what is happening, albeit less dramatic that EcoR1’s description. As ana example, the X100 has been greatly improved, but it still has many drawbacks. If updates were so great, why did Fuji release a X100s and a X100t?
They improved the X100’s firmware as much as they could. Keep in mind the X100 was shown in September 2010 and was subsequently introduced in February 2011. Meanwhile it was discontinued but they still deliver firmware updates. Show me a company with such great support for their products. The X100s/t was released with a new and upgraded hardware. (Faster processor, better sensor, etc.)
Precisely, you can only get so far with updates. As to to the many updates the X100 received, it was to improve its focusing abilities, which were utter crap, both AF and MF. Not to mention that some of the updates were completely minor.
You obviously never held a Fuji in your hands… And about releasing many second generation lenses, would you care to give an example? Kind of hard isn’t it because there are none…
Well, they recently replaced all (2) XC lenses. It’s no secret that lenses like the 35mm are struggling too and it’s just a matter of time. It’s always a matter of time but in Fuji’s case, the clock ticks a little faster than at other places…
I would prefer updates. Have a look at all the flaws Sony leaves us RX1 users alone with:
– Non-zoom focus peaking: Focus peaking should work without zoom magnification to enable composition of moving scenes
– Option to completely deactivate exposure simulation. Using small apertures like f/16 In dark situations renders the EVF and display useless because scenes are displayed too dark – even when the exposure simulation is deactivated
– Settable minimum shutter speed when using auto ISO
– Focus Peaking in video mode
– Auto ISO should have the option to go to ISO 50 as well
– The same exposure indicaton scale from the EVF used on the display aswell
– Option to reverse direction of the focus ring
– Option to disable the focus reset to infinity when entering the sleep mode
(https://www.change.org/p/sony-firmware-update-for-dsc-rx1-and-rx1r)
Fuji would improve all or many of these users’ wishes in a short time after releasing a camera. And have in mind the thousands of dollars for a Sony RX1!
Fuji seems to have focused on optics first and a manual approach to photography. Kaizen was a good way to tell their customers that they are working on it.
Sony focused on sensor and processing tech, but not really optics. They are capable.
If the 2 companies merged their imaging divisions and philosophy, that could yield some interesting products.
Sony already did merge with optics masters. The result was Nikon.
Nope, zeiss.
No, that’s not what Kaizen means.
Kaizen has to do with production improvement involving all functional and process aspects of a business, from the assembly line to the back office to the way employees approach their jobs. It’s a synergistic approach in an organization as they work together and improve the way they do their jobs towards a common end result.
If during the life cycle of a consumer product there were enhanced ways to source component parts, run the production line, plan for distribution and lifecycle marketing, you can say a philosophy of kaizen was implemented.
After-the-fact repairs to a product with issues is only kaizen in the eyes of a marketing department grasping to explain why the product was only changed once in customers’ hands.
“The number of Flickr members owning a Sony mirrorless cameras is growing.”
Alternatively, the same people are just posting a greater number of photos each.
No – it is per user not number of uploaded pictures
Not one Alpha Emount. NEX as a brand was doing fine, and growing. Five out of ten cameras here are NEX. Sony didn’t have to confuse the issue and steal Alpha legacy.
So the A6000 and A7 don’t count for some reason?
In any event, it’s bound to be the case that the earlier NEX branded cameras will predominate at this stage as there will be a legacy of such cameras in use and they will outnumber new ones for a while to come.
I didn’t see the second 2014 list. I highly doubt that changing brand from NEX to Alpha had anything to do with one more Sony camera on the list. I suggest that had Sony not changed the brand, there would simply be more NEX on the 2014 list.
The only purpose Sony had for changing the brand was to confuse the issue, making it easier for them to forget about genuine Alpha products.
As it seams the case on the Sony Alpha Forum. Every topic is about E-Mount.
The full designation of the NEX range was always Alpha NEX. Personally I don’t see the problem. I suspect that Sony always wanted one all encompassing brand line for system cameras, which was Alpha, and the NEX bit got in the way. Hence we simply now have Alpha A mount and Alpha E mount.
Alpha is A-Mount because it’s the FIRST AF mount. E-Mount is a little late to the party to claim Alpha, or Beta. They’d be better off calling it Omega Mount. That might make more sense. Then Sony could honestly claim Alpha and Omega.
And it confuses the issue because the compatibility only goes one way. Confuses the issue even more when adapting a Canon lens, which then should make E-Mount into an EOS, not an Alpha.
At some point you just need to get over the NEX – Alpha naming thing. Rehashing it over and over again isn’t going to change anything so why bother?
“1) Copy the “kaizen” philosophy. It means offer constant support and firmware upgrades on all cameras.”
Er. No. Don’t do that. There is NOTHING magic about “kaizen” and it really can’t be applied in the ways that you might think it does. Please read “The Toyota Way” and you’ll see what I mean.
Kaizen is best used in manufacturing processes where you choose your quality goals and then drive your processes in those direction. It’s also used to identify and eliminate “waste” (and you must be _very_ careful how you define “waste”).
None of these things apply to design, nor really for sorting out what the customer base wants and needs. For those things there are plenty of pre-existing process improvement methods. If Sony isn’t already using a well-defined process improvement methodology in those areas, I’d be surprised.
There are plenty of examples of US-based corporations that have tried to apply “Kaizen” EVERYWHERE throughout their companies. What too too many of them are left with are too few resources to do anything revenue-generating beyond the current quarter. Too many important long-term strategic positions are eliminated (IE: folks being laid off) after being identified as “waste.”
If you click on the link in admin’s post, all of photography in the Flickr world puts Sony in 5th place behind Canon, Apple, Nikon, and Samsung. The overall graph includes SLR and mobile phones…
http://blog.flickr.net/en/2015/01/13/camera-ownership-on-flickr-2013-2014/?linkId=11706364
Oh that is a lot better then I ever expected to be honest.
None of this matters until Sony is willing to stand behind their cameras and respond as quickly as Nikon does.
A7r 1 + year out there and still nothing to mitigate or remedy shutter shock or less than 14 bit color.
I’ve looked into this and it appears the A7R is not appropriate for novice landscape photographers who have yet to master camera-craft. I will instruct Sony to offer a new camera, just for you guys. God bless my little possum!
To the photog from Lisbon, that’s lovely work!
Just for you: the Sony community, the best place to complain about Sony shortcomings. https://community.sony.com/t5/Cameras-Camcorders/ct-p/digital-still-cameras-camcorders instead of a random rumor website. Unless you are here just to talk trash like most people, let me know okay?
You mean the nonissue of the shutter shock?
The Flickr numbers are interesting but not too insightful for two reasons:
1) Tons of people use smartphones. In this category the Flickr stats may be more or less representative / accurate.
2) Flickr users need to be at least a bit tech-savvy. I am not surprised to see quite a few Sony A7 users. It is absolutely clear, however, that Sony has sold the A6000 more often given the price tag (similar things could be said of Samsung). The A6000 has been a big hit on Amazon.com for many months.
Agree the A6000 should be at top, but even skewed results can help Sony focus on the right products.
Im pretty much sure that sony knows exactly how much cameras from each model they sold, and that is all that matters to them in the end…
What about A mount? Do we have any number compared to Nikon and canon?
Too small to show up in any graphs?
What’s the useful info from the study — there are too many Sony models !
Sony needs to focus on two models, rangefinder style and SLR style. That’s it.
I would even dare that they settle on one sensor size like Fuji.
Keep the prices low, work on firmware updates and build out your reference lens system.
Just for you: https://community.sony.com/t5/Cameras-Camcorders/ct-p/digital-still-cameras-camcorders If you have a suggestion for SONY, best is to go to the SONY website, right?
Why are there too much?
You’re welcome Sony 🙂
Seems that MFT is in a stranglehold by Fuji and Sony. 😀