Note: Also our Australian readers can now preorder the A7II at Sony Store Australia (Click here).
Mark Galer Alpha Ambassador from Sony Australia shot this A7II hands-on video. From minute 5 you can hear his robotic voice (LOL) and the interesting 5 axis stabilization test with the [shoplink 31410 ebay]Nikkor 180mm f/2.8 lens[/shoplink]. The difference between having and not having stabilization is quite impressive!
Thanks Marc for sharing this!
USA preorders:
Sony Alpha a7II (Body Only) for $1,698 at Amazon, BHphoto, Adorama, SonyStore.
Sony Alpha a7II with FE 28-70mm OSS Lens for $1,998 at Amazon, BHphoto, Adorama, SonyStore.
Sony 70-300mm f/4.5-5.6 G SSM II Lens for $1,148 at BHphoto.
EU preorders:
Sony Alpha a7II (Body Only) for 1.799 Euro at Sony Germany, Sony UK, Sony France, Sony Italy, Sony Spain, Sony Austria, Sony Switzerland, Sony Netherland, Sony Belgium, Sony Portugal, Sony Sweden, Sony Finland, Sony Norway.
Sony Alpha a7II with FE 28-70mm OSS Lens for 2.099 Euro at Amazon Germany and at Wex UK. In Finland at Verkkokauppa.
Note: Also Australian readers can now preorder the new Sony A7II at Sony Store Australia (Click here). The first A7II cameras will ship tomorrow in Japan according to Amazon.co.jp.
110 Responses
FF to 4:55
Impressive. To say the least.
Very neat, but it looks pretty apparent that you’re going to get much less than the advertised 4.5 stops for longer FL lenses. The stabilized full view shown in the video looks about as jittery as the 14.4x view on my A7R with a 70-200ii attached at 200mm and when he goes to 4.0x zoom it’s much worse.
maybe you don’t get the 4.5 stops during live view all the time but when you’re actually taking the shot.
You bring up a good point, I wonder how much the stabilization eats at the battery too…
Live view IS the shot you are taking. This is mirrorles camera, remember?
What you see is what you get. The A77II stabilization does not look very promising on 180mm.
Sure it does. There is a huge difference between on and off. Just because there is still some high frequency jitter doesn’t mean the system isn’t effective as a whole.
I would wager that this IBIS is better than what A-mount users have enjoyed for years.
There’s a definite improvement between on and off, but it’s a far cry from the current lens based IS systems. Looks much closer to the first gen IS systems that gave 1-2 stops. I expect it will work very well for shorter focal lengths however.
My Panasonic OS system gave me at least 4 usable stops (tack sharp moon shots handheld at over 500mm @1/30th) and didnt look any better in LV at around 200mm than this. So I say, way too early to tell how many stops this gives in practice. CIPA tests say 4.5 stops though.
As far as I can tell them Sony 70-200 performs better at 200mm with its OSS, the Canon 70-200 looked more stable as well but I think the guys problem is he is looking at the screen and doesn’t do the three points of contact stabilisation, I get better shots wit the Nikon 180 without stabilisation just by holding the camera.. well you know.. bettterrerrther…
None of my manual focus lenses have lens based IS.
I have several lenses that have is but don’t stabilize all the time.
The E-mount Tamron 18-200 for eample, it only stabilizes after the shutter button is pressed. Is there a difference in the IBIS after pressing the shutter button? Or even more stbilizing going on when the shutter is pressed?
I have not seen all this in videos, I’l try myself once I get my hands on it.
I can’t say that there isn’t more stabilization going on during exposure, but I find that very unlikely. For a 180mm lens claiming 4 stops stabilization you’d need to keep the image still for ~1/10s and the video above wouldn’t even come close to achieving that.
Let’s do some tests 🙂 I’ll put my nikon 180 on and the sony 200 and see how low you can go. My real question is: how was he holding the camera. The fact he was shooting video with variable shutter speed doesn’t really give me much confidence in he actually knows how to hold a camera.
Well nobody shoots a 200mm at 80th of a second unless you want to have a nice pan effect. But 4.5 stops does sound a bit silly, even if you want to go down from 500th/s down 4 stops, I don’t see myself shooting 200mil at 60th/s. To be honest I think the whole 4.5 stop low light thing is cute but unless you are shooting buildings or scenery, what is the point? Shooting a nice romantic diner at 0.8th/s? Yeah that is a GREAT idea, lovely blurry haf closed eyes are what everybody is looking for in pictures of themselves.
I find the micro-jitter not so impressive. The image is still shaking visibly with a high frequency. This is nowhere near the quality of the Olympus 5-axis stabilisation.
You definitely see high frequency jitters with the E-M1 sometimes as well. Side by side comparison will tell the difference though, unless you have seen a side by side comparison, have you?
I haven’t, but I’ve read the review of Andrew Reid, a highly acclaimed filmmaker. He’s very critical about the A7II’s stabilisation and his footage proves it. http://www.eoshd.com/2014/11/sony-a7-ii-review-5-axis-stabilisation-video-mode/
eh, nothing against Andrew Reid but I’d hardly call him “highly acclaimed”. A popular blogger with noteworthy opinions. I think he’s right (to a degree) but suddenly his term “high frequency jitters” is suddenly everyone’s complaint. I’m surprised at how well this 180mm Nikkor seems to do. If you’d seen this and not Reid’s review would you say the same? Not trolling just curious.
If you are trolling a troll, you are not trolling.
Why is he a troll? It’s visible irrespective of what one thinks of A. Reid.
Nobody should wonder that a 2x crop sensor should do better on ibis, it will be easier to move (smaller) and also the reviewer on the a7II video wasn’t 100% trying to do a great video as long as he had a wire connected to the camera (the hdmi or USB to make the video) which could lead to a bad camera holding position and also he was talking about his feelings on the steady mechanism. I’d like to see a better comparison (same guy, comparable lenses, same situation,…).
IMO it’s a good step up and a good offer from the new A7 II. Some other brands sell more with less improvement and innovation.
He runs a very good and influencial site but “Highly acclaimed film maker” isnt exactly what I would call him. He only had the A7ii for a few hours and showed one bad panning example to show off the ibis and tend to be quite hysterical sometimes which helps getting clicks on his website.
Wait til you see side by side comparisons before comong with any verdicts, anything else is premature.
Try to be critical about you read, both things for and against this camera
Even in Sony’s own promotional video, you can see that they don’t have the shift shake (x & y axis) fully under control. They turn it on, but the image is still shaking. It’s at 1’10 in the video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svbUXedWsbA
I’ve filmed with an Olympus EM-10 and it completely nails it.
Hah, very balanced and objective investigated journalist post Vincent, a memory from one shot compared to a possible maybe similar situation from another guy. 🙂
Reid is a IT guy with a blog, he is not a filmmaker and he did a bit of lazy handheld crap to post one of his typical unbalanced rants. Because of his petulant crap I find his info completely useless.
I have the EM1 and don’t see this “high frequency stuff” there. But as long as this doesn’t translate into image degradation, it is fine.
Not the same exact lens, but at 200mm the original em-5 IS does seem to perform better in video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIkTgXIHELM
I can get this from a 70-200 canon, the subject is moving, the camera is moving a lot but you don’t notice it too much. It takes the small shakes out of the image, but it is the shallow DOF that makes you think it is still the background is moving around like crazy. But for 200mm on a MFT it is pretty damn good.
Maybe that would be important for video but not for stills…
People have already mentioned the smaller, lighter sensor in the Oly as being easier to stabilize.
Perhaps the depth of field also plays a part in making the jitter more visible?
Just a thought.
nah quality of te camerawork does.
Depth of field is about focus and nothing to do with camera movement apart from any motion towards or away from the subject. The tiny movements involved are only significant for macro-photography. For all other circumstances, and especially distant stuff, it’s completely insignificant.
Increased DoF plays no part in hiding pitch, yaw or roll motions or lateral movements on the X & Y axis.
Probably the simplest answer is that it’s much easier to move an M43 sensor around as it only has about 1/4 mass of an FF one (assuming they are roughly the same thickness and the mount mass scales to area as well). Also, for any given FoV, the FF sensor will have a lens twice the focal length and that means corrections for yaw and pitch will require twice the corresponding degree of movement, speed and acceleration. So four times the mass, twice the acceleration means eight times the amount of force required. That means more powerful actuators, more power etc.
Also, videos of the Sony & Olympus systems in operation show that there is more room for movement on the M43 than the FF one (certainly in relative terms). So it’s quite likely the M43 system can compensate for greater magnitudes of movement too.
So the result isn’t that surprising in reality. It’s just that stabilising FF is more difficult.
ITS A 180mm LENS FFS. And the review was shaking it all over the place. Use your brain.
My brain says: how did he shoot it? And how did they shoot the other stuff? If it is typical one handed noob shots compared to three points of contact pro handheld there is no comparison. Or do you think the camera will solve all crappy camera work?
That’s just the video – Im holding 1/10 second using a 400mm telephoto and 1/8 second and lower at night with a wide-angle zoom. See the sample images including a Lock-On AF Phase detection test.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/markgaler/sets/72157647270619303/
can you post a full res version with the 400mm? the FE16-35 – wouldn’t that use the lens IS and only use 3 axis for the camera?
also the size of the FE16-35 one is 5562 x 3510 is that the native size? did this get cropped in camera to support IBIS?
I keystoned the wide angle image in Lightroom – the IBIS does not crop
It’s easier to stabilise a small sensor than a large one, and this is Mk1. Olympus are up to around Mk5.
I’ve seen this a lot of times and I’m not sure about it. What about using more powerful actuators on the FF sensor? I don’t see the problem here.
Perhaps is as simple as Sony’s stabilization isn’t as good as Olympus’s one. Who knows…
it’s still expensive.
It’s too heavy.
And all the lenses are too expensive, and there is only a few and they are all subpar.
And all the lenses are so heavy!
wow all trolls together in one thread 😀
Faf is not for you then 😉 Or was it sarcasm?
Name a cheaper FF camera that isn’t a Sony?
That’s easy. The nikon d610 is comparable, if not cheaper, and they have a wider selection of inexpensive (not cheap) lenses. The cheapest FE lens is $500.
Oh yeah, and it outscores the a7 with the same sensor.
Is that before or after the oil spots are removed?
Same old same old. Never had that problem.
Not a good comparison, the D610 is an obsolete model with less features, plastic body, only fair optical viewfinder, and cheap shutter mechanism. And extremely low resale value, due to the quality control issues. (junk)
The A7II is almost two generations newer and can mount, focus and stabilized almost any lens. It also incorporates the latest version of Sony’s 24 megapixel full frame sensor and will likely have a noticeable advantage in resolution and high ISO performance.
OP asked for FF camera that was cheaper. I mentioned one. Sounds fair to me.
Well, the a7 is even cheaper. Sounds fair to me.
Not according to my sources. It varies a bit, but I found the A7 to be comparable in price. In any case, I don’t think the A7 is expensive, but it’s fallacious to say that it’s the only inexpensive ff camera. Which is funny, because some other poster was defending the expensive FE lenses as quality because they’re expensive. But the body is cheap, but quality too? Ah, I love contradiction!
Yes that’s exactly what he’s saying and what you should know. It’s common for a (relatively) cheap body to be good but uncommon for that to happen on a lens.
I don’t agree. There are many examples of inexpensive lenses from all eras and manufacturers that excel. That’s the argument many Sony users make when defending the lack of affordable lenses for the emount system. I agree that am inexpensive body can be high quality: the d600 had already proven that.
No contradiction, it is you who switched the discussion towards cameras and who makes loose comparisons. I can’t find the D610 or even the D600 for 1300 dollars. As to FE lenses, it is a bit too early to judge.
Nikon D600 24.3 MP CMOS FX-Format Digital SLR Camera (OLD MODEL) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0099XGZXA/ref=cm_sw_r_awd_otjGub0C27PK8
http://www.tristatecamera.com/product/Nikon_D610_24_3_Megapixel_FX_Format_Digital_SLR_Body_1540_D610_.html?refid=279&KPID=NIKD610*&mkwid=KByl0kSr&pcrid=47357506605&gclid=Cj0KEQiAqYCkBRC4xNiSu5-Y-PcBEiQA96OM9JBHwMOF_sn5mMfN6t3yhRdDEvv7Tq-qagsdmda4yBUaAk0b8P8HAQ
I talked camera bodies because there are two contradictory opinions going on: A7 is a high quality, inexpensive camera and yet FE lenses are expensive because they’re quality and there is no such thing as an inexpensive quality lens. If you believe that lens quality and camera quality are so diametrically valued, then we’ll just have to disagree. And 5 minutes of searching brought up examples of both 600 and 610 at 1300 dollars. Dxo feels they are both quality camera bodies for a low price, and I’m inclined to believe them over strangers on the internet. 🙂
That last part goes both ways 🙂
Anyway, we are getting into some word semantics issue about what is “high quality”, so I’ll leave it at that.
Have you checked resale on a nex7 from the same era? Of you rate quality buy resale value, the nex7 is worthless.
Not really, not plastics. Resell value was long at about the same price (1550Euros) until the D750 came out. A7 price dropped very fast here in Germany. Better tracking, AF… You interchange it with D600, maybe? Your ISO performance improvement is almost not noticeable (IR already showed jpg comparison). Sony A7 is worse here than 6D or D610 according to tests on many review sites. Not that I don’t like it, but just stop fanboy talk.
Resell value of the A7 is really shocking in Germany. Last week I saw a used body being sold for 825€ in good condition (half a year of usage).
Some years ago I bought my Nikon D7000 for the same price.
all sony things have no value. they are expensive when released, but the price drops in year or so to normal level (at least half), then new model is released and price drops again 🙂
it’s a sony.. no value.
“(at least half)”
Congratulations. You’ve won the award for the biggest exaggeration of the week.
thank you! send me the award @home. thanks.
Yeah!! Bring FF to the masses, so I can have it for cheap!! 😀
“just stop fanboy talk.” is that an order?
Recommendation (using “junk” already points to a less credible comment).
The problem of the hype generation, they learned language by watching ridiculous tv soaps where everything is an emotional explosion. If it is not the worst piece of junk or the best mostest great best evah it does not seem to register. My sony camera’s are pretty good, now to be honest I’m not sure anyone online still knows what ‘pretty good’ stands for.
The cheap Nikon lenses you mention are all older designs and do not perform very well on new cameras. You get what you pay for, no free lunch with lenses.
Well that’s interesting coming from the crowd that lives to tell everybody that you can use all these great old lenses on the Sony emount. So which is it? Do the old design lenses work on the A7 or are they all crap that don’t work well on new sensors?
No most old Nikons are crap is all, there are very few old Nikons that are worth a look.
There are many pro-Sony people on this site that have disagreed with that statement, so I’ll let you argue with them.
What about bodies? Can you have a cheap, but quality, camera body? If so, why not a similar lens? Or is the A7 bad quality as one of the least expensive ff cameras on the market?
No. 1.8G lenses perform very well even on D810, not to mention D610.
Nikon have moved on from the AF-D lenses you’re thinking of.
Just imagine how much better the stabilization would be with a tiny, fuzzy,no dynamic range having M43 sensor. Another Sony Fail!
I link your kind of humor 😀
Since the new Sony IBIS, the one still advantage of stamp sized sensor’s camera will be the teamwork of Panasonic and Olympus for lenses production…. For the rest ( IQ, DR, Low light performance), M43 is not at all better and sometimes lacks 😉
I think he was being sarcastic …
Right… those cameras with terribly small fast lenses with sharp neutral corners.
Yep, sharp for that cute little sensor.
FE lenses overall resolve way more detail than the tiny ones you love.
No contest here but go on keep denying.
Funny guy! I never liked M43 IQ. Even APS seems so much richer.
That’s what we need here, a sarcastic approach to all the whining and trolling. Really like you, neuroanatomist :-). Too bad some are that stuck in their whining that they don’t understand it.
Enough with the dedicated EV dial already Sony… A useless knob for manual shooters. At least make it step-less, full spin, and repurpose friendly for sound control or other functions.
Stabilization looks great for a sill image capture, not so much for video. I would expect the Sony implementation of the feature for Video on the next A7s Would be much better.
The more important feature for A7S II is to have the improved grip, ability to output 10 bit 4:2:2 video (or record internally the same), have a fully articulating swing out LCD screen (or better yet, completely detachable / accessory unit, and to support timecode input somehow. IBIS is really at the very bottom of the list for most videographer / cinematographers.
Perhaps the videographers should rather use a video machine?
you mean like the killer A7S, yup! A7S with IBIS and internal 4K 422 that would be like omg like totally awesome <– see it turns me into an american, it's that cool!
You mean something with XAVC-S, LOG Curves and manual Gamma controls? Inspiring thought. Perhaps there is a camera which not only have those features but also comes in a small unobtrusive form factor and costs only about 2K…. Wait…..
10bit 422 would be nice, timecode, I dunno, perhaps a NFC sync for several A7S’s because it is software. It might be possible to write this as an app? IBIS was never on my list but I would like it, I can go back to using all my old Nikon glass i got ages ago for the Red one which I sold because.. well it’s a bit silly.
Are you kidding me? That was stabilization on a 180mm lens. In other words your pushing it to the max. Who shoots video on a 180? Almost no one without a tripod because your FAR FAR FAR away. On a 35, or 50, classic video lengths the combination of reduced shake from shorter focal length combined with stabilization will render this probably close to a steadicam.. BUILT IN THE BODY.
how’s a 180mm lens pushing it to the max?
180mm amplifies hand movements more than a standard focal length that is normally used to shoot video
When do you think the updated A7s will be out?
next year!
Ive been a fan and a big believer since the Nex5n. I own a Nex5n, Nex7, A7R and a ton of lenses, so dont get me wrong when I say a big thumbs down for Sony for making this more DSLR like to make these cry baby DSLR users happy. The grip in now a lot bigger, the shutter button on top was a lot better. Its easier to support a heavy lens with your finger on top instead of in front (hence why Im sure you made the grip bigger. And those tiny DSLR shutter and apertures wheels are shit. Dont forget what got you here Sony. If you cave into making this a DSLR without a mirror, you’ll be just like everyone else. The A9 better not be like this.
New Zealand Sony now also taking pre orders…Landing mid January
I really like what Sony has been releasing lately. I can finally say that I am very happy with My Sony cameras I own. The a99, a77ii and the a6000! There was always something missing in the previous models especially when it cane af. These cameras produce excellent pictures. I am tired of the m43 system hype. I own a em1 and an gx7 and really gave them a fair year long test. I am not very happy with them. they are fine outdoors but I shoot a lot of theater and I stopped using them for my stage event work. Their files require a lot of work to get them look as good as the Sony files. I shot nearly 2,000 images in raw and jpg of six performances a local play with my Sony, olympus and panasonic gear last week and found that the Sony shots were clearly better. The last two nights I shot only the a6000 in jpg and they were very nice requiring only a slight tweak in brightness and they are really for delivery and I threw out the gx7 jpg altogether. I decided to wait for the second generation cameras in the a7 series and it looks like it is time to jump into e mount full frame. My shots of our local football team with the a77ii won me a place on the staff when I was unwanted by the existing two photographers who shoot canon and nikon. The ad invited me to join them in covering their semi final and final state championship game two weeks ago. It was a lot of fun. So I am thrilled. Thanks Sony.
Why the bejesus did they move iso off the spin wheel. That is one of the things that made these cameras fluid magic
Pretty sure you can assign it back to that wheel if you want to.
In fewer words, bring back the TRI-NAVI, the best UI they made.
Sure, C & N 70-200 VRs are in another league, but this can come in handy if the price is right. 1800 USD? I find it too high.
Lol. Troll better.
Still the old gap between photographers and web geeks, my friend. Nobody who actually uses the real thing can have the smallest doubts.
However, internet marketing has grown beyond sense and first-time buyers may be swayed the wrong way, and get themselves into toys, instead of proper stuff. Canon and Nikon should worry about this, at least a bit.
does anyone think it’s possible for the A7S mark 2 to have an SDI connection in the extra space under the new location of the connectors on the A7 mark2? it’s a much better connection than HDMI (especially micro HDMI) and it should be able to run 4k out from it as well.
I can perfectly see, because of rolling shutter- in video mode stabilization is electronic, not by moving sensor like old shitty A99 stabilisation!!!!!!!!!!