Preorders:
Sony Alpha a7II (Body Only) for $1,698 at Amazon (Click here), BHphoto (Click here), Adorama (Click here), SonyStore (Click here).
Sony Alpha a7II with FE 28-70mm OSS Lens for $1,998 at Amazon (Click here), BHphoto (Click here), Adorama (Click here), SonyStore (Click here).
Sony 70-300mm f/4.5-5.6 G SSM II Lens for $1,148 at BHphoto (Click here).
Excuses in advance: Sorry for my poor english. I speak German, Spanish and Italian and never properly learned English. On a longer text my poor English really shows my limitations 🙂
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Yesterday we got that game changing new A7M2 camera. I call it game changing because for the first time in the camera history Full Frame lenses like the [shoplink 30855 ebay]Leica M[/shoplink], [shoplink 30856 ebay]Zeiss ZM[/shoplink], [shoplink 30857 ebay]Konica Hexanon[/shoplink], [shoplink 30858 ebay]Olympus OM[/shoplink] and more get a full 4.5 stabilization. It’s also a unique feature that Nikon and Canon cannot offer. It could become a strong reason for Canon/Nikon owners to switch over to Sony.
And the best time is still ahead of us with the Sony A9 launch coming soon! Here are a couple of thoughts about why Sony is on the verge to possibly conquer some major market shares of the Canon/Nikon dominated Full Frame camera market:
1) The double Sony “Miracle”:
For the second time Sony did what on forums most people said to be “impossible”:
The first time: Many said a Full Frame sensor would not fit on the E-mount. And Sony made the “impossible” possible.
And then the A7m2: The past 12 months people said adding image stabilization on FF E-mount would be impossible because there is not enough space. Well with the Sony A7II we not only got the on sensor image stabilization, but actually the best possible 5axis image stabilization on market along the one used by the Olympus E-M1!
The point is: Sony has proven ey willing to explore any possible tech to succeed on the Full Frame market. Can Canon and Nikon keep up with that level of innovation? We on SAR already hinted that 8K and 50MP FF sensors are coming in a not so distant future. Particularly Nikon will have a hard time to fight back on the sensor and video features front…
2) 5 axis stabilization on ALL Sony and third party lenses.
The Sony A7m2 uses the worldwide first 5 axis stabilization on a Full Frame camera. And the camera “rumored” price is less than $1800. Now it will be possible to use all kind of possible third party lenses with in body image stabilization. Your Leica M lens is stabilized, your Konic Hexanon is stabilized…what a fantastic world for third party lens owners!
The point is: Canon and Nikon do not offer stabilization on their fast primes. While suddenly overnight Sony offers that stabilization on all lenses including fast primes. It’s the first time there is some sort of unique Sony advantage on the lens front. Now Sony has to bring ton of lenses as soon as they can to really satisfy the “basic” customers needs.
Sony A9 is going to be terrific:
The A7m2 has been launched 2 months after Photokina with a small announcement in Japan only. Sony sees that camera as a minor upgrade to the A7 although…honestly…the 5 axis stabilization addition is quite a MAJOR change in the industry! And Sony also proved they are listening to customers by adding XAVC-S, changing the shutter button location and making many subtle changes requested by A7 owners.
In two months from now we will get what will be the first real PRO Sony FE mount camera, the Sony A9. It will feature all the most advanced tech: Improved Sony A6000 hybrid autofocus, 4K recording (internally likely), 5 axis stabilization, from ground up newly designed sensor. I am not lying to you. I sold the A7r last week to a friend of mine and will buy the A9. It’s going to be a terrific camera!
SAR poll five year history record: It’s the first time a Sony camera gets over 95% of “likes” here on SAR:
[poll id=”201″]
Tell me if you agree or not agree with my thoughts here. And stay tuned on SAR because the party just started 🙂
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Sony A7m2:
Worldwide only preorder is at Amazon Japan.
Full spec list and videos on SAR.
Full english A7m2 features list on SAR.
Image samples here on Sony.net.
Real life Images of the A7m2 on SAR.
Triple A-mount lens release:
70-300mm II official release not on SAR.
First images of the 24-70mm II and 16-35mm II A-mount lens son SAR.
A-mount A77M2 firmware:
Coming in December with two great new features (here on SAR).
0 Responses
“Sony on the verge to conquer the FF market? 95% of SAR readers like the A7m2. ”
What a ridiculous sensationalist title. People who browse this site make up like 0.000001% of the entire market. Get real, admin.
Only a couple of days ago someone said that I was “sensationalist” when saying Sony would add 5 axis on the FE sensor. So you may are rbinging good luck here too 🙂
then the 0.000001% market made Sony FE a successful product.
it is good enough.
The entire market must be at least about 100 million people, assuming 0.000001% corresponds to the smallest possible fraction, 1 person. Big market.
Do you have any idea about the sync speed of that A9? That’s the most weight saving detail of the D810 after all. 😉
no 🙁
@anon: Ah, a troll… maybe a canon user (as i am) ^^ who cares.
Das liest sich doch ganz gut, keine Einwände was dein Englisch angeht. 🙂
Any idea what the megapixel count for the A9 would be? just curious.
high 😉
I expect 48 MP, 4 times A7S !
This way you can easily bin 4 pixels into one for 4K 😉
I would expect 36MP
The same number as the brimful of asha…45
No, I just tried to guess logically.
The fantastic 24MP Sensor has become “mainstream” MP-count, so it would need to be above. During the past 24 month they gained much experience of optimizing production of 36MP.
Raising it higher would make it comparable to the MF format MP count.
Secondly a higher MP count would lower the frame rate, which is as important as high MP count.
So therefore I expect it to be 36MP, not because the Oracle of Delphi said so. 🙂
I was joking. I referred to the song:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lM7H0ooV_o8
According to the know nothing about anything Barry it’s 144 and a Sony exec came to him and told him that. Oh wait, that was during one of his acid trips.
will the A9’s Low ISO complete A7s?
How about the battery durability?
1) no
2) Stronger
Will the A9 sport BSI sensor?
I only heard it’s a “new sensor” I still have no details yet 🙁
canikon fan boy said it takes time and serious engineering plan to produce a good product, someday they will enter milc and crush sony right away…
well… i have to agree, and its happening now, canikon are developing MILC system and ready to launch 2015, but wait…
“oh no… the A7/A9 already hit the market with their more advanced system”, “i think we have to reconsider to launch this, well.. forget about this project, we have to think again and seriously need more advance system to crush sony/pana/fuji”
and then that cycle repeated again, when they ready to conquer this new world (for them) sony already step ahead.
a new MILC system need new mount, new lens, i dont think they can catch FE ecosystem by night, even to giant canikon.
SO,.. NO!! Canikon will not enter MILC next year.
and for fuji fanboy : “fuji doesnt have to release new body, they just update firmware, and we are very happy with that and yes we have regular firmware update schedule”
fuji engineer are busy to tweak their firmware thats why they doesnt produce new body
Canikon’s MLC systems would struggle at the beginning in the same way than Sony did with regards to a complete system (meaning lenses).
I admit they’d have capacities to produce a bigger range of native lenses, but at the moment they really can’t estimate their market chances, so a step like this would be too risky.
So likely they will not catch up too many new customers, and MLC switchers would most probably not go from Sony NEX to Canikon MLC.
Canon fuc..d up with a half assed EOS-M, and feared to renew or extend this system.
Nikon did quite ok with the 1 series but failed to extend the range by higher positioned models because they likely feared to rob their enthusiast SLR range.
Luckily these misinterpretations granted Sony time to strengthen their MLC market position and come up with the amazing FE system.
Canon’s EOS-M has actually been around considerably longer than the Sony FE models and according to canon.co.uk it still has 4 native lenses.
I’d agree they could do better with tons of lenses at launch – but from a quick search their actual existing track record with lenses for mirrorless has been the worst of every manufacturer.
Their DSLR reputation is for tons of lens choices, but their mirrorless reputation is the opposite.
Is it just me being crazy, or weren’t there several posts on this very site a few months ago that directly quoted Sony execs as saying that A mount would continue on as a professional line, and the others would be more prosumer targeted? What happened to that nonsense? Suddenly this week the A9 FE thing will be the new professional camera – is there any mention anywhere about what’s coming down the pipe for their largest and most ignored consumer demographic – the “soon to be dead” A mount users? The new D750 is looking to be a far better investment than risking it on yet another half-assed Sony product to be quite honest…
Half baked? I don’t care how you name it.
I love my A7r. Like my clients love my pictures.
Well I stick to Brian, Sony is not trustful. Not for a bigger investment into a new system. They change their mind in a daily basis. A good stategy for a P&S closed buy but not indicated for a system expansion approach. And the history of Sony tells us, the only thing they can provide is interesting tech and half baked approches to it. It’s shameful what Nikon can do with Sony’s Sensor tech.
Unfortunatelly for Sony it needs more than a good sensor in a cardboard box to build a good camera system.
But the story will end as soon as Canikon as finished their analysis and enter the market with fullbaked fresh smelling products delivering a real step forward.
First: What makes a camera professional? For me that is that the user earns his money with it. So when a person can sell pictures taken with a cellphone, that is a professional camera for him.
Others will say that a camera has to be FF or with a larger sensor, or they tell you that the system has to have at least xx lenses or….
Second: Do you see one Sony announcement of the A9? Is their one spec list made available by Sony? Don’t get me wrong, I think the A9 will come in the end, but what camera it will be, I don’t know, maybe it is professional, maybe it is just a testbed for new thechnology. Maybe it is a great high end amature camera…
Third: I can remember that Sony was telling that they would not come with a FF E-mount still camera when they launched the FF E-mount video camera. Sometimes a company does not tell you the truth, just for bussiness sake. But when they tell that they will carry on with A-mount in the high end, then that will be true for now (it may change in the future, but the same goes for Canon and Nikon).
Agree to “First”.
I would differentiate “professional camera” and “professional’s camera”. The latter is most likely what is meant to be when talking about A9 becoming a professional FE camera.
Partially agree on “Second”. However the A9 cannot become an amateur camera, because it is professionally featured. Even if an amateur will use it, it’s a pro camera (see above – not a pro’s camera).
To “Third”. Yes, they turned some 180 degree turns with their statements. But in the current times the market is fast living, so if they adapt quickly as they are doing and did before – fair enough.
The “pro” designation is blurred and often misplaced. There are well paid pros doing well paid jobs wit a GoPro, and there are unskilled amateurs shooting a Leica S system. The professionalism lies in knowing what gear to use for the customers needs, and to know how to use that gear for the best output.
Maybe the Japan only announcement was to track who is leaking informations
Maybe yes. But the A9 will not undergo the same A7m2 “japan” only announcement process 🙂
Could have had tactical reasons (understate the A7II in order to attract the A9 much more as already) or the production capacity could not deliver global market from the beginning. Maybe both.
I agree that they will do different with the A9. With the momentum it would make sense to announce it with a special event.
Admin may I ask if there are news about the RX2 (or RX1ii with IBIS 😛 ) ?
no news yet.
The A7 series are already professional cameras from IQ perspective. There have are only some ergonomic topics and some functionality topics which which prevented them not to become main camera for most professional users who bought it.
I consider the evolution from A/ to A7II being both – a big step forward (IBIS, XVACS and improved AF) and more important an indication that Sony finally listens to their customers.
Now Sony set the level very for themselves, so we may expect an amazing piece of engineering with the A9.
Sony has been listening to customers since the NEX 5.
* They included focus peaking in every iteration of every camera they made after the success of peaking in a NEX 5 firmware update (which literally launched Sony into the enthusiast photography market)
* They got rid of the exceptional minolta flash shoe just so they can please a few vocal wan kers at SAR.
* They came up with the NEX 6, which was a NEX 7-ish cam with built-in EVF and the NEX 5n sensor.
* They came up with the FF NEX
But if they had only listened to customers we wouldn’t have:
* RX1
* RX100
* RX10
* A7s
* FS700
You are a smart-ass, aren’t you? 🙂
I’ve been told.
🙂
Love it.
“conquering the FF market”…
95% of SAR readers is not 95% of the FF market.
Who said that? That was just to say that this camera gets a very high score amongst SAR readers.
It sounds like that.
Than you misunderstood me. The A7m2 only indicates (maybe) that this is a more “mature” product than previous cameras.
Does anybody have news about that technology that allowed to move the sensor of fhe camera to auto-focus with any lens? I could see that being added in the future, and lenses becoming mostly smaller and lighter non-stabilized manual focus lenses over time. Higher IQ in a smaller package with all the functionalities.
@Admin
Time to sell A99 or keep it until its end? (send me an e-mail)
My guess is, that they will announce A9 and A99 II in early 2015, maybe at the same event/day.
sell or not sell A99, this question I ask myself also….
A mirrorless with a poor flash system and handful of lenses isn’t going to conquer FF.
When Canon had shipped as many FF lenses a year as Sony is doing now they had a total of 162 FF lenses. Sony will have a lot more lenses in a couple of years. Yes Canon and Nikon will still have more, but they should be on their guard as Sony is closing in on them fast…
It isn’t all about lenses though is it. Sure this is a great camera for some people, but are the majority of existing FF Canon and Nikon users going to dump their kit on eBay for it? That is just silly.
It will gain a few adopters but there will still be far more new FF users buying cheap Canon and Nikon FF bodies than this.
Lets not get giddy over just another mirrorless that now has IBIS.
who needs to conquer FF? they just need to make money. look, apple is not conquering mobile, but they made more money than everyone add up.
I don’t know, ask the Admin it was he who said it.
Keep up the good work Andrea!! No matter what your native language is, we all understand you! You’re english isn’t poor, your messages are rich!
I still waiting for a mount 🙁 if nothing come on 2015, i will change brand name
“The A7m2 has been launched 2 months after Photokina with a small announcement in Japan only. Sony sees that camera as a minor upgrade to the A7”
even as a sony fan, this quite a positive spin….
maybe the A9 will be a superb camera. But canon still have the best lens line up, and battery life. For a pro very Important, if you shoot the whole day. And who says canons new sensor wont be good. At ISO 6400 even the old canon sensor still can compete with the new A7s … (watch the dpreview comparison http://www.dpreview.com/articles/4613822764/high-iso-compared-sony-a7s-vs-a7r-vs-canon-eos-5d-iii) … only above there is an advantage of 1 Stop. If Canon can improve there sensor, IBIS and EVF ist not enough reason for everyone to chance. An 16-35 and 24-70 and 70-200 in f4 ist nothing.
Wouldn’t say the best line up, but the most complete one.
Sensor pixel peep is at least nothing when considering a purchase.
Judging a professional f4 lens set as nothing somehow disqualifies your knowledge even if you are a pro.
Are you really wondering that a conventional sized DSLR with OVF and big battery size has a better battery runtime as a MLC with high res EVF and smaller battery due to body size reasons? 🙂
Defending your favorite brand is fair enough, but why not doing it a little bit more objectively without BSing?
who needs to kill canon? it will die by itself. 7D replaced after 5 years? and with minor upgrades? selling higher than 6D?
haha, you can believe in you bs but people buy 7d2 and they aren’t idiots.
Well done, your editing makes your post sound objectively. Thumbs up.
maybe it the real world we could be Friends 😉
If you are the wedding photographer from Cologne we could meet somewhen. I am located in Düsseldorf. 🙂
Your opinion is wrong. Leica has the best lens lineup and Zeiss is the runner up. As Zeiss fills out the Loxia line this Sony system will have a significantly better lens line up than Canon.
Hi Mike, yes you are right Zeiss and Leica have impressive Lenses. Does Leica and Zeiss have a similar lenses like 50mm 1,2 and 85 1,2mm – Apperture under 1,8 with AF? And can you recommend one or two?
Thanks for acknowledging that indeed I am right, and by implication you are wrong.
AF decreases the quality of the optics as the elements need to accommodate for AF parts, so no thanks. Though you have a point in a Canon viewfinder it is impossible to manually focus an f/1.2 lens or any lens faster than f/2.8. Not so on an A7.
Not to mention that AF tends to be random in what it picks as a focus point – faces for example are three dimensional after all.
Down the road manual focus or higher ISO and a narrower aperture are the prefered route.
I’d love to see leica’s super telephotos please. or their 70-200/2.8’s please. or their tilt shifts..
or do you not know what “lens lineup” means. leica doesn’t go beyond what? 135mm?
I am very sceptical and I don’t care for sloppy bodges trumpeted as innovations. The 7D2 anti flicker system, the dual pixel sensor, the diffractive optics, the fantastic af: those are real innovations, because they make life a little easier. A sensor that is partially covered by the mount, which in turn wobbles, is only a section or a huge pile of bodges. I tried the A7 and was disappointed.
my guess is that sony will pitch A7m2 directly towards 6D. then A7r m2 will aim at 5D (price will probably reflect this). then A9 will be 4000USD…..
A7m2 and A7r can’t compete with 5D and 6D.
The 1st FF mirrorless camera that may be able to compete with a DSLR will be the A9, if they figure out the autofocus.
If not they will tell you they have the fastest AF in the world. but unfortunately with a hit rate of 10%
I’m not selling anything and I’m still taking nice photos.
So, on March/April will we have a Sony a7II-R? And on August/September an a7II-S?
Plus the a9 models.
It seems there will be tons of Sony models next years, is it cool?
Yes, very cool. 🙂
You don’t have to sell anything that you use. Just buy new stuff! 🙂
Admittedly it could be a little bit confusing, but hey – having choice is cool. 🙂
A9 may turn out to be the 1st mirrorless camera that may be interesting for DSLR users.
This is a make or brake model for Sony… if they pull this off, then all SLR mounts will be dead. Not immediately, but the writing will be on the wall. And Sony will be leaps ahead in mirrorless.
If they don’t, the decision to phase out A-Mount and forfeit the DSLR market to Canikon may bite Sony in the butt. People won’t buy new A-Mount lenses to use on E-Mounts with adapters.
Any word on lossless raw for any of the new bodies?
Any idea when they might release an a7s II? I am guessing they will now.
Pretty sure they’ll bring it. 🙂
The question is when… I think that it will be in at least 6 months, time to develop internal 4K.
Well well… I now have a Nex 6 with a Zeiss 24f1.8 attached and an A6000 with the SEL50f1.8, and I don’t plan to change for two years at least (I guess what I have is enough to take some great shots already). I need to master those focal lengths first, and then, maybe, I’ll upgrade.
However, I really like what I’m seeing right now: it means that the next time I’ll buy a camera body (and lenses), I’ll have a hell of a perfect camera. Congrats to Sony ! I really like what they’re doing.
@SAR_Admin
Is this the spec list of the Sony A9 flagship? Could you confirm it?
36 mpx at least
no aa/olpf
fully articulating screen
double sd slot uhs II
gps built in
4k built in /internal recording
fully silent shutter as the a7s has
evf size magnification /manual focusing feature split screen as the fuji xt1
touchscreen af like the omd em1
handy small pop up flash
much stronger and bigger battery (life)
bigger/stronger af focus assist lamp
1/8000 mechanical shutter speed with option to enable an electronical shutter getting up to 1/32000
5 axis ibis like the sony a7 II alreeady has on board….
new raw algorithms so full lossy raw compression (to choose options like canikon have)
evf going to -3ev like the nikon d750
best hybrid pdaf system on mirrorless cams so far with broadest frame coverage
16 bit tiff file option
if so the price doesnt matter if all features are included 😉
After this sony just has to develop and introduce better flashes/flash system
and more native lenses with af as well as a cheap 1.8 plastical series like the
nikkor 1.8 prime series in order to have af and to say goodbye to canikon dslrs and give them the final k.o . punch finally….
I think its time to put your nikon/canon gear on ebay or reduce their stuff to the minimum you really need in order not to loose too much money on falling prices after sony takes the lead/has the edge in the very near future….
no.
This would be my dream camera too….makes this impossible possible sony!!!Please!
Not only yours….;)
for this camera with these mentioend spec list you could demand nearly any price…and it will be selling like hotcakes….
I have just one remaining question:
@ SAR_Admin
Where is the PREORDER LINK? Its still missing sadly;)……
This is exactly the camera and the spec list the Sony A9 should have to be the best flagship out side of any manufacturer and to give canikon the k.o. punch….
That is the dream camera right there. A camera like that could last for many years. You probably won’t need to upgrade body until 8k video comes out.
Yawn. Will it come with apps, too?
I agree with the fact Sony is really thinking forward and doing a great job.
But If they are really serious after A9 releas they should spend the next year developing photographic accessories to mak they A series into a real serious photo system.
The way ut is now, great bodies, groving lens line up us not enough to build a serious plan of investing into their system alone.
I am afraid to think about it cause knowing Sony the might pull a stunt of making some proprietary thing and abandoning it cause it didnt gain traction.
All before developing crutial photo things to use on jobs.
1+
but they can buy the next try-and next- and the next period. That approuch will fill their pockets with plenty of yen. 🙂
Sony is developing so fast that it is great for early adopters.
Us rumour folks like that.
But some seem to get angry when things develop to fast and products, concepts or tech solutions get scratched in 2yrs of life.
That might be frustrating, but hey, welcome to the Sony fast lane.
If you want to play you need to play. But keep that in mind when you caluculate your investment budget. You might change things a lot faster and newer have every photo accesory that Canikon offers for yeara
Resale value is not great on tech like this.
But they know that their target userbase less conceerned with that.
So i will wait until the A9 hits Mk X for any decision
That wont help you. 🙂
Best to shoot light and not collect gear you might need but buy what you really need for satisfactory end result.
In other words get your feet wet and play and don’t dive all in if you can’t swim.(read: risk to muck loose change)
Well my gear setup is not bad already. I was only waiting for a solid FF Flagship with EVF, 36MP and A-mount to close the trunk, but I guess it
won’t happen. That’s sad but lately I saw a Video on how to take pictures using wet plates. that might be an option.
With third party lenses, I would rather have auto focus than stabilisation.
The argument that Canon/Nikon users will switch because of the stabilisation
falls short, IMO, if that means losing auto focus.
They might jump when they see that their own brand doesnt offer IS in primes and not even in fast mid zooms.
Let alone old OVFs with zero new features.
That way of thinking is dinosaur tech.
That might have worked on 12MP and but high ISO sensors.
Today when I buy a 24-36MP camera and have great ISO 6400 i want my indor handheld photos to be sharp.
Othervise whats the point if i still need to lug around tripods to play the look of pro.
These things some call “innovations” are pointless toys for others. Sony and mirrorless in general have cut a lot of corners. A good viewfinder, good autofocus, good build etc matter way more to me than those “innovations”, aka sloppy cut corners.
Check out strobist101, you will see that lighting is not that hard – if you need to shoot in the dark.
Exactly! IBIS is definitely a nice thing to have, but fast and reliable sensor-shift-based AF would be… holy sh*t, it would be a breakthrough. Being able to use AF and IS with basically every lens available is just unbelievable. One or two years and I think we will have it.
sensor shifting makes sense for small adjustments or small focals – however you have to shift the elements too far for longer focals. what sensor shift makes sense for is smart phones where instead of worrying about changing the lens, the focus mechanism can be controlled on the sensor.
Thanks for the info. I’d like to say “good to know”, but in this case it’s not 😉
I would buy this A7ii, but I absolutely won’t give up the mind blowing amazing A7s sensor. I would LOVE the image stabilization for my manual lenses. So I’ll wait until whenever some sort of A7s mark II comes out (or hopefully a smaller A5s without the viewfinder). In the meantime, I’m very happy with the A7s, and very excited about how aggressive Sony is pushing camera tech.
The world favors the bold.
I am about to upgrade to FF and the D750 has intrigued me a lot but this Sony innovative IBIS is a godsend. Any idea on the A9 price estimation? If it is NOT beyond my budget, it is a definite buy, otherwise I can decide between the D750 and A7II.
$3500 plus or minus $500 seems to be the range that most think it will fall into.
If it’s true, I have to forget about it. This is more or less the whole budget I am gonna spend on the camera and the first lens.
Why? It’s an A7 replacement, should cost a little more probably, but not much
Who says the a9 will be an a7 replacement? At least according to the rumors, it is positioned above the a7 models.
My guess would be the A7II would be the replacement for the A7. The A7 will probably stay until sales become so low that it is not profitable to continue . The engineers are probably at the drawing board working out the details for the A7III 🙂
Why should IBIS make a difference? It is likely that the Nikon lenses are stabilised. To me the A7 and probably A9 body is a completely different camera to the D750 so comparing them is just odd.
Unless you are planning on mounting manual focus lenses on the A9, what advantage over the D750 with its excellent support, tons of lenses and masses of accessories do you think it will have?
I am upgrading from Fuji so I am more accustomed to EVF. Besides, on sensor PDAF is much more accurate and manual focus assists like peaking and magnification make using Zeiss lenses an enjoyable experience( IF I have the money to afford one). For some reasons, Canikon insist on depriving people of focus screens designed for manual focus in their recent cameras.
On sensor PDAF is actually less accurate than DSLRs: the focus split is shorter and provides less information to the focus system. Most PDAF systems are using some form of hybrid focus to get accuracy, which slows them down a bit and makes for less reliable tracking.
Personally, I think the sensor IS is a nice marketing point, but less interesting from the photographic point. The weak point of the Sony A7 bodies is CONTROL of the focus system, which is still far behind DSLRs. If you’re a “let the camera’s automated AF system just do it’s thing” type of shooter, the A7 is okay. If you’re trying to control how and where the focus is achieved, the A7 is far behind DSLRs.
But DSLRs’ AF variation is larger than that of on sensor PDAF. As a result, Focusing fast lenses is usually hit and miss.
Are you sure? Because I’m not.
A good case in point is the Sony A6000 I’m currently reviewing versus the D7100. The A6000 does indeed have fast AF performance. But when I look at carefully controlled tracking shots, the hit rate is lower and the exact focus plane is less precise. The D7100 does not have these problems.
Moreover, you’re probably comparing slow lenses to fast lenses, particularly if we’re talking about Sony and all their f/4 zooms. The f/4 Nikon zooms are pretty damned good in PDAF. So much so that I’ll use the 70-200mm f/4 over the 70-200mm f/2.8 if I don’t need the f/2.8. PDAF, no matter how done, has issues with very fast lenses that get back to the geometry issues. Mirrorless doesn’t get a benefit with fast lenses unless they also integrate contrast detect information.
Which brings me to a point: we’ll see hybrid focus DSLRs soon, just as we’re seeing hybrid focus mirrorless today. I won’t tell you how they’re going to do it (there are two main methods being explored that I know of), but it’s coming.
The mirrorless focus versus DSLR focus is yet another of those “good enough” problems the camera makers are grappling with. The more “good enough” pushes down the system, the less money the camera makers make, as it’s not generating more sales, it’s just generating different sales.
Honestly, for critical images, I prefer to focus manually no matter what camera I have at hand. An imaginary D750 with EVF would be my dream camera because I find ergonomics better compared to small bodies. The problem is Canikon provide neither EVF nor focusing screens designed for manual focus.
Just imagine focusing an Otus through EVF with peaking and magnification.
Canon provides different focussing screens for their better models, except the 5D3. They are cheap and work well. EVFs and peaking don’t work half as well, as far as I saw with the A7.
Are you talking about the Canon Super Precision focusing screen? Is it any good or you are joking? I am seriously asking the question since it has been mentioned at the Zeiss website that this screen is no different than the stock one.
http://www.zeiss.com/camera-lenses/en_de/website/photography/what_makes_the_difference/manual_focusing.html
Yes, the E*-S. It’s good. You can also find a Chinese eyepiece magnifier, it helps too.
@Thom Hogan
What are your thoughts on Sonys A7 II announcement IBIS with ff mirrorless and the upcoming sony a9 flagship for pros…
Is this already the final k.o. punch for the canikon dslrs…???
if the list mentioned below will be
the spec list of the sony a9…..puhhh what could nikon offer teh holy
trinity for free if you gonna still buy a nikon dslr??
Canikon only have both a chance if one of the following or even multiple issues are stii an iussue on the sony a7II and a9,,,,
– Does it have the same sensor cover that produces reflections with bright light sources like the A7 does esp with wide angle lenses?
– How loud is the shutter? Both the A7 and A7r are loud…
– Does IBIS work with legacy glass in both photo and video mode?
– Does/will it have the same shutter shock problem as the omd em1?
– Did they change their raw algorithms as well ..so does the cam have a
full lossy raw compression/option as the canikons truly have on
board…???
I’m much more interested in whether the uncompressed raw option on the A7II is real and usable than the IS. As I’ve written many times before, I tend to leave IS off unless there’s a reason I need it, because the various IS systems, including Nikon’s VR and Olympus 5-axis, tend to introduce a small bit of blur into acuity of edges. With the in-lens IS systems, this shows up mostly in the out-of-focus areas due to the way the IS is done; with the Olympus, it shows up across frame when it shows up.
Is the A7II a KO punch? No. I’m sure I’ll get to that in my eventual review ;~). Is it a nice update that continues Sony’s progression? Absolutely. It looks like some of my complaints about the A7 are being addressed, which is very good news, as it means that Sony is paying attention, not just aimlessly iterating.
Still, be careful of being an overly zealous Sony fan. Sony’s current share of the ILC market is about at its same mid-teens share back at the Alpha height, maybe a point or two higher. Nikon’s share remains pretty much at 33%. Canon’s remains pretty much around the 40% mark. If Sony shows much more success, both companies will simply come in with similar products, plus they’ll use pricing on their DSLR volume to push Sony’s margins down. We have a classic #1/#2 protecting against #3 battle going on here. All the standard practices will likely be followed. For Sony to make it to even #2 is going to need someone to fail at defending. So far, there’s no evidence of that happening.
As for A9 specs, the problem with future products is that you’re comparing rumored specs for future products against current products. That never works ;~). To think that Nikon and Canon are stuck and won’t have their own moves forward is unrealistic.
For the A9 I hope there will be two versions. A9 and A9r.
Both will have a best possible AF system.
They will have dual sd-card slots (the A7ii grip is large enough to hold such a card reader).
The A9 should have the highest burst rate,+10 FPS and hopefully silent shutter for those shoots at wedding etc. Hopefully this is possible with 24Mp resolution.
The A9r should at least have 36Mp.
Both should also house the 5-axis IBIS.
Internal 4K recording is probably too much to ask, but why not 😉
Is all this and the burst rate in particular something we can expect admin? 😉
for the A9, I hope there will be 3 versions, A9, A9R and A9S 😉 I will buy the A9S if it exists!
I would buy the R – no brainer.
Friend of Andrea: “Why do you want to sell me your A7R, do you know something that I don’t ??”
Andrea: “No of course my friend :D”.
More or less 😉
just learned that , Sony china has announced by other media channel, that a7II will accept pre-order from 27-Nov.
In Chinese: “http://mp.weixin.qq.com/s?__biz=MzA3MTUyMTQzNA==&mid=201436537&idx=1&sn=8cb4428f44124bb848a23ae6663abc3d#rd”
Whilst I’m extremely attracted to this camera, I think I might wait just a little while as I’d like to see A6000-style hybrid AF available. Maybe that will come with the A9. I rather suspect the A9 will be in a larger body though and pricing will be more like that of the A7S.
more like the price of the A7S + 30-40% more
You’re possibly right, but I hope not. I expect an A99 class camera priced within range of Canon EOS 5D territory rather than something a long way beyond. Sony don’t have the range of native lenses to push it into those upper territories, and adding adapters costs money.
But time will tell.
Not sure what you’re reading, but by all accounts, the A7II already has A6000 style AF?
I haven’t read anything that says this camera has the A6000’s advanced hybrid AF system. It just seems to be a tweaked version of the A7’s existing system, very probably because it has essentially the same sensor. Yes, it’s hybrid, but I’ve not seen any suggestion it will match the A6000. Rather the reverse.
This very item says it’s the a9 that will get an improved version of the A6000’s hybrid AF system. I take that as meaning the A7 II doesn’t have the A6000’s AF system, but just the A7’s.
But we’ll see once the tests are in.
Of course, this camera is also clearly targeted at a migration route for owners of A-mount glass, and as that will generally use an SLT adapter with its own PAF, then it’s not quite so critical.
I think we’ll see much better focussing in this camera.
Where are you getting the information that this is a tweaked version of the A7 sensor, or that isn’t as good as the A6000? Given that no-one has seen or used this camera?
Firstly, it’s the consensus that I read. Secondly if this camera had the A6000’s AF it would surely have been in the announcement. Given the latter, I think the safest assumption is that it doesn’t have the RS6000’s AF system.
A consensus on a camera that no-one has yet laid hands on? Sony is claiming a 30% improvement in speed. It might not have the same spread of AF points as the A6000, but it could be close speed wise. Let’s see some hands on results.
I am in need of very urgent help. I can’t get this inane grin off my face and people are starting to give me funny looks and point. If the A9 is terrific I am in deep trouble!
No it won’t it as no A-mount IMO
I really did not think Sony would add IBIS to the E-mount since they have chosen to use stabilized lenses. It will be interesting to see if they keep this in the high end, FF bodies, or add it to APS-C as well. Like to see it in the A99ii and future A77 models. Glad I was wrong.
okay, Sony, but quit pretending you are reflex camera and move that viewfinder to a reasonable location in the top left corner, instead of the absurd bulge on top!
Having the viewfinder concentric with the lens is the ideal location for tracking and sighting objects. The bulge serves a purpose, form follows function. This is a camera not a nicknack.
Ilce-9 (A9 in the West) sounds like a real winner. Let’s hope sony does not price it too high (as it did with the alpha 99 a couple of years ago)
Really?? The a99 was under $3200 in its class… Making it less expensive than the Nikon d800 and Canon 5dmk3… It was $2800 I believe.
If the A9 is priced anywhere between $2500-2800, I will jump on it like *you insert what you want here*!
Most likely more expensive than the a7s. But less expensive than the a9’s competition of course (ex: Nikon D810, Canon 5dmk3 successor) so even if it’s at $3,000 it’s still less expensive than the completion and not overly priced. I don’t see PROs buying +$3000 cameras and say “oh man I bought an overly priced camera” #cheers 🙂
Can bet a dollar, it’s going to be $2800 (minus a few cents).
I will jump on it like its the perfect price thinking that Black Friday has come early!! 😉
The real competitor was the Nikon D800, which was only slightly more expensive, but with a better sensor (at least for resolution), more lenses available, better brand recognition, etc. etc. The point has never been if that camera was good (it was, and it is), but if Sony could price a camera almost at the same level as Nikon’s direct competitor, without the camera being clearly superior than the Nikon’s competitor. The market answer was a clear (and expected) no. The situation with the A9 seems different: a new, improved sensor in a smaller camera (than Nikon’s). Those are already two strong and clear advantages vs Nikon that the Alpha99 never had.
You don’t think the a99 was as good or maybe better in some ways? Lens selection is more and brand recognition is better with Nikon is because that they have a long history of SLR +40 years? Sony started this with a-mount together (not counting Minolta lenses) less than a decade! Lol give them time to catch up, my friend 🙂
But honestly I believe the a99 was just as good as the d800. Resolution is resolution. I don’t count 36mp better than 24mp unless you view images at 100% zoomed in only lol
It’s really not about me, giving Sony the time to catch-up. It’s the market deciding, and the marketing dept. at Sony having to take decisions accordingly. 3000 dollars (dollar more, dollar less) is a lot of money, and people want to be 100% sure they can trust the brand when they invest that amount (also having to add lenses, etc.). So the long-established brand has a clear advantage here, because you know they are committed to the mount, unlike the underdogs (also considering global service for Pros). Plus the amount of lenses and accessories currently in production was superior in Nikon camp, as you know, and it does not matter how much more innovative Sony was, the fact remained that Nikon had an edge also there. Considering that optical vs electronic viewfinder was debatable as advantage, the two cameras’ main differences were image quality (Nikon wins) and frame rate (Sony wins), and people seemed to care more about IQ. Not enough “wins” in Sony camp for the price they were asking. If the camera had been priced at the current A7r level, it would have been a classic.
nikon should thank Sony for their IQ in some of their cameras 😉 hehe
Cool beans but I expect now most people will wait for A9, A7r II and A7s II announcements before making a decision.
I find it highly unlikely we’ll see three A7II models like the A7. It looks like the A9 will be the high res offering, and the A7S hasn’t long been released anyway.
let’s hope they finally support flash AF assist beam in the A9……..
I am still waiting for Pro FF rangenfinder styled camera. Who will make it first? Seems not a Sony. No interested at all with small A7x that its EVF is centered – very unconvenient for framing in dynamic shooting and with your nose on your thumb. I tried it with A7 but it’s baneful.
A77II is still not dead.
I’m glad I got two of my a77ii last week with the switch from my Canon (6d, 7d, L lenses, etc) to a-mount!
If they can jam a full frame into an e-mount, maybe A-mount will be medium format.
Exactly. A mount is about to take a quantum leap into the future.
was thinking this all along. with smartphones replacing p&s cams, sony realized, everything needs a step up in the future. phones became p&s, e-mount became full frame, a mount becomes medium format. makes total sense. that’s where the future is headed. i never understood why Fuji and Olympus bet on small sensors. in 12 months phones will be able to make m43 level photos…
I don’t actually want medium format camera. That would be a major pain that I’d just skip regardless of IQ or price. There are already times when a crop frame works better for me than full frame, and I can’t imagine needing beyond clean ISO 12000, which the A7s seems pretty close to achieving.
Im beginning to wonder if the A9 actuallt is a A7r/s mk II. A7 mk II for people that wants the A7 uppgraded. A9s/r for people who bought the A7s/r
I think have read lately here, that Sony won’t go for a new “r” version (with 36Mpx sensor). Someone to confirm?
Admin,
With all this full frame news, is the A7000 still coming too? And will it have 5 axis IBIS?
Yes I heard about the camera form a trusted source. No specs yet.
Thanks for your reply, I look forward to it.
Cheers
Andrea,
Please stop teasing the A9x. Damn it, just give us the specs already!!!! 😉
Thank you in advance!
lol! 🙂 I really do not have them now (a part of some anonymous probably fake specs)
If it’s under $3,000 it’s a no-brainer for me. Hope that’s not wishful thinking
The price has already been confirmed as lower than that when looking at foreign prices
A9 Pro with three-leyer sensor:
A9 = 36MP (3x12MP)
A9R = 48MP (3x16MP)
A9S = 24MP (3x8MP)
+ in spring FF Pro 36MP Nex-9 rangenfinder styling with same features as A9 36MP.
I am not sure 3-layer sensor is ready for FF production yet. But interesting.
Who knows! Haha Sony might make the “impossible” possible again lol
It makes sens:
A7II – A7IIR – A7IIS + A7000 APS-C rangenfinder styled
and PRO line:
A9 – A9R – A9S + Nex-9 FF rangenfinder styled
Wow, 7 new FF Sony mirroless! Than Canikon should work really hard and fast!
Why? They are in a different league, they make tools, these are toys. For now, at least.
ahahahaha
i want mine for autumn or summer 2015 :p… I think your A9R will be the most intereting
Fantasy list.
I have been thinking this morning of what a step forward this is for Sony. It’s just a combination of useful improvements to the A7 taken with the steady trickle of new lenses, particularly from Zeiss and Sony Zeiss. Shame the 24-70 FE couldn’t have been a bit better. I have the A99v myself and can’t invest just yet but there must be some worried expressions in Canikon management.
I don’t think Canikon worried just yet. Most pros and advanced amateurs have WAY too much invested in glass and bodies to switch to something that in the end would mostly just be equivalent to what they have. I mean after all – we can’t really expect the A9 to outperform the D4 or 5dmkIII in AF performance. At the very best – it will match those cameras – which is a small miracle considering how far and fast mirrorless has come. But still – just equaling is not good enough to cause a switch.
But what Canikon SHOULD be worried about is the 5-10 year future. As amateurs become advanced amateurs and some become pros – what system will they move forward with. Sony makes a very compelling argument – and if the A9 is really spectacular – it could turn the tide.
Yes but it could be, as Churchill said, ‘not the beginning of the end but the end of the beginning’.
Well, as history has shown us – it isn’t always the first player to the game that comes out the other end as a raging success. I am not trying to be a Debbie Downer, but if the Sony FE bodies/lenses are all the rage – a FF mirrorless from Canikon will definitely be in the very near future (and many Canon/Nikon ‘togs are secretly praying that this new A9 will push Canikon over the edge and force their hand on a new mirrorless product).
What stops Canon or Nikon from going Pro Quality mirror less is very simple – it will make the Slr’s worthless like a tube tv vs a flat screen
Just like going digital made film obsolete? Yes they did that too. When the market forces tell them it is time – they will go mirrorless. If not – they will die.
Not really. Sure, a wrench is smaller and lighter than a hammer, and I could hammer nails in with it if I wanted to … but I don’t want to, nor is it convenient or preferable.
My point is that while I have no doubt mirrorless is the future, there are several key things that the DSLR presently still does a lot better, and for us pros that can mean the difference between putting food on the table … or losing the client.
By the time the mirrorless tech has caught up in every way, Canon and Nikon will have already had a serious mirrorless product in the marketplace. In fact, you can be sure they have serious designs in development, and even testing, already.
There is not logic to your example or proof that Slr’s are better than mirrorless it’s the same basic camera with the 1940’s mirror removed
There is if you’re a pro.
Not everyone likes small mirrorless cameras. I personally love Canon 1d series DSLR, very very comfortable. But I’d love to have Sony’s E or A mount as a second camera.
I have never been a Canon fan and as these big companies get more involved I like canon even less -Your right some people don’t like a smaller camera but as America catches up with the rest of the world it’s doubtful anyone will make an SLR size camera just like you cant find a tube style tv any longer
Well, not quite. I like the idea of mirrorless a lot – but I have to admit, slr’s have this immediacy to them – brutally fast operation. When I operate a mirrorless, it is like I am asking a computer to do something – it is fast, but there seems to be a delay. When I ask my slr to do something it is like turning on a light switch – it happens right away. Some photographers work slow and don’t mind this almost imperceptible time lag. But some need for the camera to take a picture RIGHT NOW! And cannot afford the fractions of a second of delay. Those fractions of a second could be the difference between getting that decisive moment and missing it.
Time will solve these problems (well, R&D money). The time difference will shrink to the point of being not detectable by humans. And the advantages mirrorless offer are obvious. The mirror box will die – no doubt about it. It is just a matter of time. And Sony does seem to have a head start with a really good mirrorless and the beginnings of a good set of lenses. Now, Sony needs to drop the translucent mirror in the A99 and go fully mirrorless, then we are will see something impressive.
This is very interesting. I shoot Nikon, but have had my eye on sony mirrorless developments for a few years. I actually owned, then sold a Sony 5N (focus was not even close to the DSLR I had at the time). But I have seen a steady improvement in AF performance. If the A9 offers A6000+ AF performance AND top quality FF image quality AND has a high frame rate and large buffer – this could be the camera that kills the high end DSLRs. The only thing I urge Sony to think about is this – if they are truly aiming this product at a higher end market please don’t give it a super tiny body with few external controls. I am not saying it needs to be as large as the A99 – but please – this is for pros who hold cameras all day long – so make it comfortable to do that.
I can’t imagine the A9 following the A7 form factor. I think the grip on the A7II is permanent moving forward. People complain about the weight of the cameras, but I find it really isn’t a problem if you strap it to your head. With mobile devices you can actuate the shutter while steering the camera via your neck. Heck, even multiple cameras can be securely fitted around my forehead…plenty of space up there. I’m just saying.
Admin
Do you have any idea on the A9 launch price? I have already sold my Fuji system and was about to get a D750. I can persuade myself to spend holidays with a camera if I know that I can get the A9.
No idea yet.
I’m betting it’ll be around $2.5k for body.
no info.
The 5 Axis image stabalisation is always beeing mentioned as a great advantage, I wonder though if it won’t be a disadvantage from time to time. E.g.:
– When using vintage lenses, the image will be nice and stabalised, but wont the shift of the sensor (image plain) cause even stronger vingetting than you will already get from some vintage glass?
– Especially when using vintage anamorphic adapters for videography, they already often cause heavy vignetting. Will this be enhanced by in body stabalisation?
– Videographers often already use some sort of rig or even gimbal for stabalisation, will the in body stabalisation make it impossible to get a more “hand-held” look to your film if your need it?
– Will it decrease battery life alot?
#1 & #2 are valid. #3 (and to a lesser degree #2) is solved by simply turning the feature off. If you want shake, you can have shake. Personally I’m not sure I like the look of the stabilization in video from what I’ve seen. Most Sony OSS lenses are very good at smooth motion in video, this seems a bit jerky but probably too early to tell.
The idea of combined lens/body stabilization sounds awesome.
It will only be a disadvantage if you’re a complete idiot, in your case avoid it at all costs.
well, for someone like you, with low requirements due to a very simple and moronic mindset like yours, anything will be fine.
No doubt, Sony rules by far in terms of innovation! Awards are again to come!
However I doubt that this spectacular FF e-mount line-up will make them conquer the FF camera market over Nikon and Canon without a large lens offering that can compete, and including A-mount with adapter or cropped E-mount APS-C in the line-up doesn’t make sens.
Hope all these upcoming releases won’t go thicker and thicker. I won’t upgrade from my A7 to something as big as a DSLR!
AF performance and good ergonomics are more important than size for most professionals.
Is that what she said?
I am extremely excited by this annoucement and the A7 mk2 seems a wonderfull camera on paper, but I am still highly disappointed by the lack of quality native lenses (FE mount). The Zeiss primes seem very good, but the zooms are completely sub-par…
It’s really time Sony does more serious work on their lenses line-up if they want to conquer the photo world…
Have you used the zooms, or are you just repeating what you’ve read?
BTW do you own a CZ 24-70 2.8 How good is the Corner sharpness?
Corner sharpness isn’t important if you take crappy pictures. I’ve solved all of my lack of corner sharpness pictures this way. Just take absolutely horrible pictures and you’ll be forced to crop- problem solved!
Good point.
I’ll give it a try next time. Is 100% crop enough? 😉
Yes indeed!
I own the 2470/2.8.
Corners are generally soft at max aperture and up to approx. 5.6.
As long as you don’t print large formats, it may disturb only on exceptional composings. And if you have work to do, where you need max. sharpness across the image, then choose the frame that way that it leaves you 200px from all borders to cut.
Guess he hasn’t.
At the time we are talking about 4 zooms, 2870, 2470, 70200 and the new 1635.
The 2870 is a budget lens and should not be counted.
Although not owning the three I had all of them for testing. And this guy is talking BS.
Yes, the 2470 is sub-par from price/value perspective, but not completely. Corrected in Lightroom it delivers very good IQ, at least in terms of center sharpness, colors and contrast.
The 70200FE is an outstanding mid-aperture telezoom. At comparable apertures it beats the a mount pendant in every aspect.
The 1635 is joy to use and leaves for my style of shooting nothing to rave about.
As I own all ZA and G for A mount and the two FE primes, I don’t need to go for these lenses as I want to spend my money on the macro and new primes.
But if I wouldn’t own the A mount pendants I would go for all three lenses without a doubt.
You have a point, I didn’t use all the zooms 🙂 I’d be very happy to have that money (I can’t make an opinion with just a couple of days of trial).
The 24-70 FE is the most important focal length and it’s far from cheap: on a FF camera with high pixel count, it should be super sharp, but it’s definitely not…
That’s enough to be very disappointed, don’t you think?
Why does the A7II not have dual card slots?
Because it’s not necessary.
Dual card slots I think so!
@SAR_Admin:disqus …and the point is… where are the pre-order links? 🙂
coming soon 😉
Hallelujah!
Sony has now proved beyond all doubt that it’s new A7x ii (and likely A9x) bodies are going to be completely awesome, the focus must now be getting out as many high quality, fast enough, lenses (not just fast primes, but e.g., 2.8 zooms) which are still compact enough to justify a difference to a FF DSLR. Ideally they need to make serious inroads to this before Canon/Nikon FF mirrorless hit the market, possibly allowing the use of their wide range of lenses(?).
I’m sold on Sony a7x/A9x system, and they really are doing awesome things technologically, but Sony need to be careful how they develop the body/lens range, IMO. If the lenses/bodies get too big, it will drive away all those who moved over to this system, as an alternative to bulky, heavy, ugly DSLRs, in the first place. The retro, classic, small bodied slur/rangefinder looks need to remain too, as it is partly stylistics which drew many to the system.
Well that is the problem. It seems Sony is a little schizophrenic. There are several pro markets – which I assume the A9 should be aiming for. And small/light doesn’t really come into the equation. Getting the job done with good ergonomics and good AF system is MUCH more important.
That would be the logical approach. But Sony is like a surfer who was taken by a not expected huge wave by surprise. Now he is frantically trying to stay on the board. One wrong move and everthing is over
re: wedding photographers, I think the a7II would be there already if it had dual card slots.
Well, maybe. But I think most wedding photogs are looking at FF solutions for the times that come up when then need subject isolation (candid shots, etc.).
Which awesome things? Awesome marketing, perhaps. Technologically, they have been cutting corners like there is no tomorrow. No thanks.
Hulk found Sony inspiration for wobble sensor and mount technology
Very curious about how effective the af will be. It looks a lot like the a6000 (bunch of little squares) but less coverage. This may be as fast…
Hulk found Sony inspiration for wobble sensor and mount technology.
Hulk found Sony inspiration for wobble sensor and mount technology…
The humor was lost before the first post…
Disqus not like gif. HULK like gif. SMASH! disqus.
I was checking the results of admins survey :
96% like the A7II >> but 52% won’t pull the trigger !
Many more won’t pull the trigger. I won’t, for example. I have high demands and only Nikon or Canon can meet them, by a far cry. I reckon these products are for the gadget seekers with some disposable income, but photographers will keep scoffing at them.
Yeah, because laughing at other people’s kit and feeling superior is so cool.
smh
This is the type of comment that makes me feel superior. Guess why.
1. I think the a7ii is a great camera – but always wait for reviews 😉
2. Waiting to see what a9 brings.
I think everyone likes Sony’s direction and technology, but this is just one camera out of many that Sony is set to release. There’s still the A7RII, A7SII, A9 to come (and possibly different variants of the A9 as well?). So many of us are looking to see what happens next but won’t be buying this specific camera.
Because not everyone is currently in the market for a camera and likely happy with whatever they are using now. As usual your logic is flawed.
In hockey game there are players who play with hockey-stick which cost 750-900.00 Dollars and they do not score a goal for many, many games …
In track and field there are runners wearing running-shoes which cost 5000.00 Dollars and they are coming in to finish line second …
There are photographers still shooting film and making a millions of dollars …
Does it really matter for professional photographer what tool is he using ? The answer is : Absolutely NOT as long as job is done with best possible result what ever it takes!
My self as shooting pro-photographer I can insure you, that what SONY is doing is a BIG thing which is gonna leave absolutely huge footstep is development of this small “35mm” format in digital imaging. Sony company is smart, their resources are mega huge compare to Canon and a specially Nikon. Therefore I say, not so fast, just wait till end of summer 2015. I am sure many of you will be NOT disappointed.
I am looking forward to see what all of you are going to say.
Thank you? God bless!
What exactly you are trying to say … If I may ask …
Sony does not have more resources than Canon. Canon is huge (valued at almost 2 x Sony), and in better shape financially. Sony is simply more aggressive in trying to innovate, because they have to. Canon is a sleeping giant, but they may have slipped into a coma at this point. I am very bullish about Sony’s future, and can’t wait for the A9, but I wish people would stop thinking that just because Sony is a big name in consumer electronics, films and music that it is richer or more powerful than Canon – not so.
…
NIKON Eq = 231 640 500.00 USD
CANON Eg = 21 645 235 000.00 USD
SONY Eg = 19 159 130 000.00 USD but with net profits of 1 086 080 000.00 USD
These are just a close numbers but Sony due to their movie, music etc., industries is way ahead of this pack.
Sony is predicting a 230 billion yen loss for the year ending March 31 2015. Canon is predicting a 370 billion yen profit. Canon also has $7b in cash and its camera division is significantly bigger than Sony’s. The fact that Sony has its finger in so many pies does not make it more powerful. It’s bleeding money from many areas, like smartphones.
Rob I have checked on their last AR. Truth is that Sony has hick-up in smart phones business however … where you have got your forecast for the next year earnings is a mystery to me …
Never-less we are going to see. However, I know for fact, that there are project at work which close to this time of year 2015 where Sony will shake-up camera business no question about it.
Okay, Sony choosing the α7 to introduce IBIS instead of a flagship camera model means the technology isn’t reliable enough for extreme high resolutions. Additionally after having seen this menu screenshot for manual lenses I wonder how far you can choose wide angle to work with IBIS or is it only 400-1000mm? Of course Sony’s great on constant improvement, but pushing photography customers into buying a new body every two years or even more often and avoiding Firmware Updates for older cameras isn’t that charming at all.
What proof other than your baseless opinion do you have that the IBIS is unreliable? Sony has been using IBIS for many years and has updated and improved the system before adding it to the A7II.
Common sense would tell you. The A7r is Sonys highest resolution camera. Sony have never had IBIS on a camera that high a resolution. It is always going to be more difficult to make IBIS for higher resolution cameras
That statement is even dumber than his, and that’s setting a pretty low bar.
I say this every year, but when that A9 hits the market with great low-light performance and IBIS, I’m set for a while.
Well considering the A7 has only been out for a year I doubt you do say that about the A9 every year. Maybe once which would be this year though.
In case you weren’t joking… you completely missed my point.
Me too. I’ve been content with the A7, shooting pretty much anything but now with IBIS i want an upgrade! But I want to wait for the A9 and not upgrade for awhile. 🙂
Why can’t Sony move the mode dial to the right side of the EVF (if you are face the front of the camera). So, they can put a shutter speed dial where the mode dial is currently located.
Because shutter speed is controlled using a wheel on modern cameras and settings viewed through the viewfinder. Having to take your eye away from the viewfinder to change the shutter speed is inefficient and stupid.
You may think it’s inefficient. But please don’t use the word Stupid. Having a shutter speed dial does not mean you have to stop using the wheel. It simply means you have an option. That option means you can pre select shutter speed even when the camera is not on, or even before you hold the camera up to your eye level. So in some cases it will be more efficient. And it won’t stop the efficiency of a wheel control, either. Best of both world really.
The thing is, it’s all about the lenses.
Look at Canon. Canon’s bodies suck. The sensor tech is 10 years out of date. Fixed pattern noise is really horrible. Yet they have a really good spread of great lenses. So Canon remains on top.
Come on Sony, bring out the lenses for us.
There will be lenses from Zeiss / Sony for A7 line of cam’s no worries there. Unfortunately they are not made like christmas cookies. However if you like to “juice up” line of your lens arsenal your best bet are Leica lenses. I am insuring you, you will be not disappointed.
Sure, slap on a 21mm and enjoy the colour cast and vignetting.
Is that right … as far as I know the Leica 21mm f/1.4 SUMMILUX-M is very fine lens. But then if you are “slapping” lenses on your camera I am not sure if you can notice difference.
Many Leica M lenses have problems on these cams, and not only wide angles. Try before you buy, and don’t insure us please.
I am working photographer. I am using Zeiss and Leica lenses on daily bases and A7r is one of the cameras I use as well. I am not saying, that high-end lenses are jacks of all trades however, these Zeiss and Leica lenses are exceptional in image quality. Period.
I do also realize that this forum is a absolute waste of time. Back to work.
So you “working photographer” use your Leica Ms often on the A7r? Never noticed anything wrong? LOL
Maybe you worry too much about what everyone say is wrong while he is making money using the “wrong” equipment. That just tells me how much more resourceful he is than you.
Everyone on the blogs absolutely needs hundreds of lenses to choose from, this way they can study full color brochures and online lens information while using a $300 camera with kit lens for the rest of their lives.
Ehh, there are plenty of idiosyncrasies with Canon, mostly in the sensor IQ department and in the way marketing seems intended to cripple every body beyond recognition, but let’s face it, they make wonderful cameras, and their bodies are very well thought, well built, resilient, and will most likely survive the photographer in rough conditions. At least the 7D and 1D bodies.
The lens range is also excellent, specially at the long end. UWA and UWA zooms were the biggest problem. The 24mm f1.4L I was a joke, the II is not that much better, the 17-40mm although good for its cost on a APS-C body was plagued with CA in FF, and so on. This is starting to change now with the 16-35f4. From 85mm onwards, you have very very good optical quality, at least with the L series. Sensor IQ, i agree completely, by today’s standards, it’s not acceptable, and only the staunchest of the fanboy or Stockholm syndrome victim would deny this, but everything else is generally a very well thought camera system.
Their conservative attitude doesn’t helps either, it had to be Sony to do a FF mirrorless, and one with IBIS, Canon wouldn’t ever do it unless they were dragged kicking and screaming into doing it. They will fight Sony and Nikon, eventually, hopefully. Give Canon 2, 3 more years, and they will either call it quits and buy sensors from someone else, or, call it quits and buy sensors from someone else. They cannot compete with semiconductor giants, it’s a loosing proposition. Even if they release something interesting at CP+ in February, when they do, they will milk it for another decade at least before retooling to new technology, so this entire cycle of IQ versus the competition will be repeated. If they don’t add something new…
A9 will be so far ahead of its time if rumors are true. At this point, I’m interested how Canon and Nikon will keep up. I liked the A7 but the ISO performance was lacking compared to my Canon 6D. I hope the A7II or A9 can hold up better in this area.
High ISO performance on the 6D is slightly better noise wise but shows less detail than the A7, the A7 easily suprasses by a wide margin in every other parameter. Overall the A7 sensor is superior to the 6D and 5DM3 sensors.
Who told you? And anyway, a camera is made of many parts, the sensor is just one. It looks like none of those parts are even remotely competitive with Canon or Nikon. The game here is gadgets vs tools.
Canon sensors suck and Nikon uses Sony sensors, the A6000 outperforms the 5dm3 with it’s APS-C sensor. Slightly better stills and much better video for 1/5 the price.
Sure, dream on, the internet is full of nincompoops repeating that myth. Of course, you know squat about photography but that is not the point here, right?
That’s funny! Amazing hyperbole!
True. Internet fauxtographers ignore that, but that has never crippled my photography, for which Canon, Zeiss and Phottix have made a few excellent tools.
The sensor is the most important one, that’s the entire purpose of the camera to begin with, you know, to capture images. Remove the sensor and you have a very expensive paper weight. Add a shitty obsolete sensor, and you have Canon, aka a very expensive paper weight.
The 6D has better DR at high ISO and lower noise. I do not know where you are getting that about less detail.
The 6D is a joke, you got ripped off. You’re in denial.
At lower ISO, I agree, the A7 is much, much better. I’ve owned the 6D since it’s release and the A7 since April. Judging from my own shots, the A7 has tendency to have red and blue color-casts and significantly more noise at higher ISOs. It looks terrible compared to the 6D. There’s no reason the A7II can’t fix this. Just look at the D750. It uses Sony’s 24mp sensor and has excellent ISO performance.
Usually, it’s best to wait until initial dust has settled. Look at how high the A7/A7r were praised (they are very good), but now we know not e.th. is perfect. AF will be the most important thing for me. It will be interesting if they can make tracking really work.
Canon and Nikon are not the ones who need to keep up, even this year which has been by all accounts a very good year for mirrorless .76% of the interchangeable lens camera market belongs to DSLR’s which between them Canon & Nikon have approx 85% of the market. With Sony and Pentax pretty much bit players .
http://www.cipa.jp/stats/dc_e.html
Looking at the big picture all mirrorless brands share just 24% of the interchangeable lens camera market. That is shared between Sony, Olympus,Panasonic,Fuji, Nikon ,Canon and Pentax. While we all may knock Canons mirrorless efforts the E0S-M kit is the highest selling mirrorless camera in Japan
http://dslrphoto.com/dslr/space.php?do=jranking
The fact that Sony squeezed a FF sensor into the E mount isn’t something to brag about. people weren’t saying they couldn’t, they were saying they shouldn’t. They’ve completely shot themselves in the foot on lens design / ray angle issues by doing this. It was a huge mistake. Canon’s EF-M mount shares the E mount’s 18mm flange depth and has a 58mm internal diameter. That’s 12mm bigger than E and even larger than EF. And there aren’t even any plans to put FF in that mount! That should tell you something.
What it tells me is Canon is in a rut and lacks the courage to try something new. It also tells me you don’t have a clue as to what you’re talking about and just here to troll.
(1) That I don’t know what I’m talking about, you are completely wrong. It is widely known and discussed that the narrowness of the E mount causes significant problems for lens design, especially for short flange distances. Check the Sony forum at FM for extensive discussion of that, and why, this is the case.
(2) Yes, with their falling-behind sensor development and the endless minor iterations of the same old DSLRs, Canon (and Nikon) seems in a rut and afraid to try anything new. However, the only thing I’ve brought up about Canon here is that they wisely chose a rather wide mount for their (otherwise lame) mirrorless camera, which is in no way evidence of (or in any way related to) that rut. And I know you know that, which along with the fact that I’m using my real name and you chose the handle “nopey” tells me that, in fact, you’re the one here to troll. Shame on the 8 of you who upvoted his comment.
The Fuji X system has about the same flange distance as Sony E mount. They manage to get pretty nice results with their 14mm, I had one for a while.
Above 50mm there are no real problems at all. The wider lenses need to be designed with the angle at the edge in mind, there is no doubt, but it appears to be perfectly possible.
The idea that the Sony mount is too small,is just nonsense. If it passes the light, it’s good.
Not really, it puts a heavy constraint on lens design. Wide angles grow bigger and pricier. No worries anyway, they are going to replace it in a couple of years, and the new mount will be called alpha.
Any FF low f stop Wide Angle is gonna be big. No way around it.
You are already so close to the sensor that there is no need at all to sink the lens into the camera. No real need for a big hole.
It’s not the room to move the rear element closer that’s needed, it’s room to make the rear element broader.
Well, it’s the mount diameter, not the flange distance, that’s at issue. And remember that X lenses have to cover a significantly smaller sensor which is far easier to design lenses for, especially at the wide end, despite the X mount being slightly narrower. Unfortunately, this isn’t nonsense.
True. One of several things they haven’t got right. Autofocus, poor evf, poor build, wobbly mount, crippled raw, bad manual focus assist etc. Welcome “innovation” (I love that word).
Ahahah, that’s the best thing i read the entire day
Poor EVF? Bad manual focus assist? That’s fantastic. I suppose your idea of innovation is getting a Mk.II sticker on the same 5 year old camera and live with circa 2005 sensor performance. Oh these Canon fanboys are the best. We didn’t had these in 1982, the closest we had to these online fights was FD versus EF mount.
Same m2? Which features of 7d2 are the same as 7d? oh well, of course it’s sensor! there is nothing else in the camera except sensor. Stop your bs
Nothing else? I don’t know about you, but i was under the impression the entire purpose of photography was well, to make images. Where do you propose to capture them? Going back to ScotchChrome3200 ? Canon fanboys are becoming increasingly desperate.
. . . and what about the huge, beautiful, clear, noiseless, always light viewfinder, and – 4 FE capable autofocus system of A7s.
. . . and what about the specially designed sensor of 36Mp A7r on which my super wide angle Canon EF 14 f/2.8 II much better performs (even on sides and corners) than on my 21Mp Canon Eos 1dsMKIII.
Hm? 🙂
You mean the specially designed sensor that has been available for coming up on 3 yrs on the Nikon D800/D800E/D810 .All lenses perform better on higher mp cameras. Have you used the EVF in low light? if so I personally cannot say it is “beautiful,clear or noiseless “
Hi 🙂 try the noiseless finder and the capable autofocus of A7S in lowlight situation. It will be suprise comparing to the A7R.
Most of the lenses are needless and perform worse on high (36) mp sensors. Especially on sides and corners( smearing effects, color aberration )
Sony 36mp sensor specially designed , and serve almost perfectly on Nikon and Sony cameras. It is the best sensor to date. But my favourite is A7S 🙂
Lay the crack pipe down and step away from your mom’s computer.
I must say that though I have the A7r and when used with native primes it is more than capable of wonderful results. It is very much a first generation product and other than when I want a lightweight package { with the 35mm or my favorite the 55mm} . I have pretty much returned to using my D810 nearly all the time by the time you pack a couple of lenses an adapter and a camera body the weight saving spread over the camera bag is insignificant. And personally I find the D810 a better fit for my shooting. Horses for courses
I am hopeful that the A9 will be a higher level body { ideally with at least 36mp } , better build quality and better ergonomics , obviously ergonomics are very much a personal opinion.
Can’t disagree with that. I don’t want to plunk the cash down for the uber expensive yet totally worth it 810. Plus, I have to much Sony Alpha glass and I don’t mind using adaptors. Nikon nailed it with the D810 though. I eagerly await the A9R or whatever they call it. Hope we get 5 axis and a serious focusing system. DAY ONE PURCHASE!
Yeah it tells me Canon are still hopeless at mirrorless cameras…
Get ou, troll. HULK SMASH! trolls!
Get out, troll. HULK SMASH! trolls!
Am I the only one who’s ever read someone elses post, thought it was my post only to realize I’m drunk.
Can users who own or have used the A7 help me with my question?
Will IBIS and 30% improvement in autofocus make this camera more suitable for sports shooting? Or will it still fall way short? I know the camera is great for landscapes and everyday shooting (which I mostly do), but for this season in my life, I’m also shooting sports. I’m not a pro, but I’ve been dying to get a full-frame camera and this may be my opportunity… any thoughts?
Ibis is a facility that targets mainly sports, teleshooting, and Makro, where handheld speed is questionable. Also in night and similar low light shooting it is a real bargain. The problem lies within too low weight for anyone to keep the camera quiet, and too much front load when you shoot tele lenses since the body is too light to balance it. Last not least, elder people who have not that quietness anymore will find here a good solution for trembling limbs problems. If you are shooting short and wide lenses, landscape from tripods, or with fast shooting speeds, it does not helps too much, nor does it in portrait. For street shots it is a real delight as well, since many of those are snaphots and here Ibis does just the job we ask it to do.
Shamael thanks for your reply. Is 30% Improvement in autofocus enough to help this camera catch the action? Thx
The quoting a focus speed can be somewhat misleading, as it may well be that in given conditions it could be blistering fast, yet when they are different, find it hunting.
Personally, I would doubt whether the A7 is ideal for sports, even in its new guise. That is not say, especially in good light, that you couldn’t use it for that. After all, it is only relatively recently that we had autofocus at all. Whe I started photography no profesional sports snapper would have dreamt of using anything other than manual, even when autofocus did appear!
Peter Kelly, thanks. Yeah, I had a feeling ibis would not really be beneficial for fast moving objects. I was hoping that an improvement in autofocus would help me some. A friend of mine told me the same thing about manual focus. I might have to work it that way because I’m not going to be able to afford the A9, just for better autofocus. Thanks!
I think you have a common misconception of IBIS. It will not make blurry shots sharp if the cause of the blurring is subject motion. Indeed, sports and street photography are two areas where IBIS will have little or no effect.
I await this camera with impatience, beside the new possible A7000. Maybe this one will be a start into FF, I have indeed a shitload of good old Minolta glass. Concerning your english, it’s ok, we know what you mean and inn exception of the normal faults that all thos fluckling Chintok kleybloalds write, there’s nothing to complain about. I speak English, German, Dutch, Italian, Luxembourgish, Hebrew, and French, and sometimes switching from one language to another, even being easy, the translation of what we think in our home language to another one is not that easy at all and needs some reflection. Keep trucking, it’s on a good way when you are not haunted by spam, what happens unfortunately too much and too often. I agree that many US citizens look at this site as well, but for me, being outside US, all that spam for US only deals are just annoying.
Hope they manage to get GPS in future models too, this is a great step forward though on this release… very exiting!
If the price is 1800EUR, than I will pass and will buy used A7.
Its already $1599 AUD with LA-EA4.
For EU is supposed to be 1800EUR, far too high for me, I was expecting around 1300 EUR. If this is true I will buy used A7 or most probably will go for used Canon 6D/5DIII (I have a few canon lenses, they are cheaper than Sony/Zeiss). If a7II is going to be sold in EU for 1800EUR, than what price is supposed to be for Pro 9A – around 3000 EUR? No, thanks.
From what Andrea said, the upcoming A9 looks like it will be an epic camera 😀
Is there any halfway reliable info out on the likely megapixelcount of the A9?
So because 47% of those taking part in a Sony fanboy forum say they will buy it means that Sony are about to take over the world lol . How did image stabilisation help Sony take over the DSLR world again , that’s right they have 5-7% of the DSLR market
To put into perspective here are the Sony A7/R/S rankings in :
Japan { the best market in the world for mirrorless } nothing in the top 80 selling interchangeable cameras.
http://dslrphoto.com/dslr/space.php?do=jranking
USA
In the “all digital cameras category ” you have 1 A7 model in the top 70
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=sr_hi_3?rh=n%3A172282%2Cn%3A!493964%2Cn%3A502394%2Cn%3A281052&ie=UTF8&qid=1416673792
I love when the Canikon people run scared lol
If Sony makes the a9 with:
1. The rumored 6K high speed, high dynamic range Sensor, the IMX189AEG (FF size).
2. 5 axis IBS stabilization, and allows ILS for an addition few stops.
3. h265, with 200+ Mbps (at least for 4K RAW).
4. Pro Features like Slog3 and ‘Consumer Features’ like fully articulated LCD (or OLED) Screen.
5. ‘Snap on Features’ like a super hi-res OLED EVF for the top and a Battery extender for the bottom (and NO additional attachments for 4K+ recording!).
6. A price under $4K.
7. The other great Features that have become popular (Zebra / LCD Zoom / etc.) go without saying.
This will NOT be a “Game Changer”, the ‘old game’ will be over and this will be an entirely new game never seen before. The opportunity to accurately and truly “capture the moment” and record it beyond our ability to see, process, or care (thus no complaints).
To go beyond Film and approach Vision, captured in the palm of your hand (for less than an arm and a leg, Lenses not included as they will cost an arm and a leg for a full set :).
A newly developed sensor……….. So I guess the a7 sensor with improved on sensor pdaf module eh?