This is likely one of the most unexciting camera updates ever. Nikon announced the new D810 (specs at Amazon) which features the Sony 36MP sensor and brings only very minor improvements over the D800 (electronic first curtain and so on). The news that matter for us are:
1) There is no new Sony FF sensor in use with the camera. This is the same A7r sensor. Don’t know if that means that Nikon has no exclusivity on new Sony sensors anymore…
2) This may be a chance for Sony to close the gap with their new A-mount FF that could be announced at Photokina in September.
It will be far more intersting to se what Canon is up with their new FF sensor tech. Going to be an exciting rumor summer 🙂
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Even Dpreview is not so excited about it, but Andreas words are a bit harsh.
Much more likely we would like to hear something about photokina and comming.
Andrea how much information do you have by now? Barely the name or already some specs?
Nobody
Hey guys just bought a camera…. how does this thing work?
According to dpreview, it is an all-new sensor with several improvements including lower minimum ISO and higher maximum ISO, too.
And the first curtain e-shutter that would have helped the A7r to control vibration.
If the a7r had EFCS and oss primes, I’d definitely be seriously tempted. As is…
It will all come in time. So it is all good, amazing amount of options nowadays.
All new for Nikon ..same as a7r
AFAIK, the A7R’s sensor is more like the D800E’s regarding both ISO range and the missing electronic 1st curtain.
Probably the only thing really new about the sensor itself is the gapless microlens.
The original 36mp sensor did not have that.
‘This is the same A7r sensor. Don’t know if that means that Nikon has no exclusivity on new Sony sensors anymore…’
It simply means that this sensor is still up-to-date and the new A-mount camera might also use it.
The nee tech 54mp sensor will probably be available and used by multiple camera brands.
Canon will of course use thier own.
How is EFCS a minor thing? It’s actually the first 36mp FF sensor to feature it. And besides that, ISO 64 will probably show some noticeable improvements in terms of IQ for the majority of users.
Also it remains to be seen if they now truly go AA-less or with AA-canceler again.
It’s not groundbreaking but I’d say it’s a solid update.
Dpreview say it has no AA.
I think in a SLR it is a minor thing since the curtain slap does not produce so much vibration like on a small camera… especially compared against the huge mirror slap
Many people who use the D800 for studio or landscape work use mirror lock-up. For those people its exactly the same issue as for the a7R people (but they see less of the problems because the gear itself is heavier).
ORLY? you think 64 ISO is going to be noticeable compared to the same image shot at 100 ISO?
Good one!
Wow, so you seriously want to tell me that ALMOST DOUBLING the amount of light (vs ISO100) you use for a shot will have no effect on the final image?
Good one!
I definitely see a difference in IQ from ISO 50 to 100 on my A77. ISO 50 is the best thing that could happen to IQ in bright daylight. Now, not having ISO <100 is definitely a show stopper for me (e.g. A6000 only has ISO100).
I have to agree with this statement. Low priorit 50iso on any of my cameras is noticably cleaner than 100.
I’d say it is not a solid update. Overall, it is certainly minor.
The D800/800E are both solid cameras, the D810 merges the two together and has added some significant improvements. Being only one generation removed I wouldn’t expect any revolutionary changes, however Nikon has improved the camera. Not enough IMO to sell off an 800/800E but enough to keep the series up to date. Nikon is sticking to a conservative update strategy, which for this camera series makes sense.
Pretty much in line with my thoughts, with the only difference that I find their strategy to be overly conservative,
“Compentition News” should read “Customer News”
What competition? Without Nikon, Sony will die.
some people have more air in their lungs than braincells.
Braincells in the lungs is not a good thing lol
That is funny! 🙂
Have you ever considered comedy? Every comment you make is laughable.
Let us look at last full years data from CIPA the whole mirrorless market accounted for 19% of the interchangeable camera market . With 81% being DSLRs .Nikon’s share of the interchangeable market is double the entirety of the mirrorless market { all brands Sony, Olympus, Panasonic,Fuji, Canon and even Nikon} .Nikon sells hundreds of thousands of FF cameras all with Sony sensors a business worth hundreds of millions of Yen to Sony. It may not be vital to Sony but it is a very worthwhile chunk of cash
http://www.cipa.jp/stats/documents/e/d-2013_e.pdf
How does the mirror-less vs DSLR market share defends the claim that “Without Nikon, Sony will die.”? Amazing argument!
It is exactly the same argument that Nikon are a competitor ( to Sony) selling cameras made by Sony. It is quite simple actually. 🙂
Nope, it isn’t. And yes, it’s simple.
I never said it did Vlad ? I was just pointing out the continued demand for FF sensors and the value of this to Sony . I specifically said and I quote:
“Nikon sells hundreds of thousands of FF cameras all with Sony sensors a business worth hundreds of millions of Yen to Sony. It may not be vital to Sony but it is a very worthwhile chunk of cash”
Sony has made massive losses, so perhaps the question is would the hundreds of millions of Yen made from selling FF sensors to Nikon have helped or hindered.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-24753856
Well, I took it in the context of the OP, so it sounded strange. Otherwise, nothing to disagree and that is indeed a good question.
Sony, and Panasonic once ruled the TV market the Samsung, and LG now dominate. It took months, and not years for this happen, because of (modern) LCD technology. The analyst were stunned.
Sony SLT market is growing, because many of us including yourself of course, get-it. The SLT cameras like the A77II clearly demonstrate the future of large body cameras, which cannot be classed as either mirror-less or DSLR really.
Canon has been developing a A99 like pellicle-mirror, and I wouldn’t be surprised to see Sony, and Canon both using this technology in the near future.
Once people begin to get-it then Nikon will be in serious trouble.
It is not the same sensor from Sony A7R, the Nikon D810 has native ISO from 64 to 12800, and with boost from ISO 32 to 52.000. In the rest I agree it is a minor upgrade from D800.
If there is EFCS in the A7r, it will not be a “minor” improvement but a very BIG improvement. Those who claimed that EFCS is not possible for a 36mp sensor have been discredited by the D810.
If this is the same Sony A7r sensor,
Sony should add this feature asap to the A7r (by hw and/or sw upgrade )
otherwise EFCS is definitely a big time mockery to Sony’s face from Nikon, eversince A7r’s fiasco http://goo.gl/k0c3qz
… lol!!
Aw, come on. They said it is a “new sensor”. 😉
It would be a good thing to have, but I disagree entirely with it being a big improvement. That issue of blurry images is entirely overblown.
Yup totally. 😉
IME, for the same FL, A7 can be hand held at ~ 2X lower shutter speeds, about the same for NEX-6 and when it comes to a Leica M it is about 3 stops lower.
Your experience may be radically different.
You do not understand it because obviously you are not a current d800e user,so you might not know how annoying its shutter shock is or how much less sharp it is than the 7r at pixel level. But if you know these things you understand how big the upgrade might be to some of us who actually have and use both a7r and d800e.
Every upgrade can be deemed a big improvement for ‘some’ people. Overall, this is just minor. Minor doesn’t mean worthless. It means not major. I am a Sony user at the moment.
Seems to be hard times for rumor sites….competition news there, bestseller and special offers there, low ranked rumors here….hmmm
Yes …people are so uninterested in what the competition is doing that the last Canon topic only generated 300 responses.
Or maybe it is hard times for the childish readers who cannot realize that there cannot be a new rumour every day?
Bell End.
Admin, are you stating that the Nikon d800 does not have a Sony sensor in it or that it has a different Sony 36mp sensor but Nikon will now be purchasing the a7r sensor to replace it for the d810?
A7r sensor
Well no one knows it for sure until Chipworks examine it through in their lab, some says it is a toshiba chip and some says it is the same chip as the one in the a7r.
In all likelihood Nikon isn’t going to change what works for them, suffice to say it’s the Sony 36 megapixel chip until proven otherwise. No evidence of that so far other than your phase “some say” which is totally meaningless.
Maybe I need more coffee but the “D810 (specs at Amazon)” link doesn’t seem to provide any specs but the price and release date. Admin may not be impressed but DPReview likes what they see:
“Two years after Nikon shook up the high-end DSLR market with the 36MP D800 and D800E, it has consolidated the 800-series with the release of a new camera, the D810. The D810 replaces both previous 800-series models, and will be offered at an MSRP of $3299 – about the same as the D800E, and a little more than the D800. Why is the D810 priced like the D800E, and not the D800? Well, the D810 takes the D800E’s ‘AA filter cancellation’ trick one step further by dispensing with an AA filter entirely, which should result in a camera that offers greater resolution than either of the two models that it replaces.”
Or, in short, two years ago Nikon shook the market by putting an amazing sensor in a regular DSLR and now they release the same camera with the same sensor, but slightly improved. Yep, not impressed.
Or Sony put the same sensor in a seriously flawed A7R body with ,Poor low light AF, dreadful ergonomics, vf blackout, no built in flash { d800/810 flash works as controller for the superior Nikon CLS }, very poor battery life,
few native FF AF lenses for FE mount { some of which are distinctly mediocre including the £900 24-70} , in camera charging, once you start
bolting adapted lenses to it you lose a lot of the advantage of the A7r., not to mention either having no AF or very slow AF with only Canon lenses
Slow burst mode if you need AF tracking ,shutter vibration in certain scenarios etc.
No camera is perfect but as an owner of both the D800e and A7r the D800E is the far superior tool .Here’s hoping that the next iteration of the A7r has more than slight improvements , the less there is wrong in the first place the less you need to update.
Although it goes against the grain as as Scotsman , I wish Sony had aimed the A7r at a higher level with a higher spec/featured camera at a higher price. As a back-up to my D800E for when I want to travel light but retain the same excellent IQ it does a great job, as a system camera it falls short in many ways though it is of course early days. Personally I will be using the A7r with native primes the 35mm is very good and the 55mm is excellent and as they come along I will add more. For zooms and longer lenses I will stick with the Nikon gear.
Not sure what you are trying to achieve with your comparison to the a7r. I was replying to a comment disagreeing with Admin who was not impressed. Well, I am not impressed either. It is yet another DSLR, something everybody makes and the main reason why it ‘shook’ the market was its sensor. Still, this doesn’t necessarily make it a bad camera.
I would disagree with the statement that the D800 is the far superior tool. For some things, sure. For others, certainly not.
What is up with the NEX-5N, R, T, 5000 and the myriad of different
models with minimal change? 🙂 Nikon are now not only using Sony
sensors but even following the marketing strategy! May be Sony are selling more
than just sensors? 😉 This could be more useful than finding out if there will be a FW update to bring EFCS to A7r. 😉
Did I say that Sony doesn’t make minor updates? I spoke to this particular release and said that I am not impressed. I hope you all realize that right now you are arguing against me, because you can’t accept that i am not impressed.
I am not impressed either. I was not impressed with the D800/800E. That is why I did not buy any of them. I was also not impressed with all the cheering that went on here about that Sony sensor “shaking up” the market via those Nikon cams.
The improvements in the D810 are welcome some more than others. There is no better low ISO, max image quality, sensor for a FF camera than the 36mp Sony so advancing image quality was not possible at the moment , however a number of useful updates can still be made to the body. My point is clear you seem to have an issue with the same sensor being used in the Nikon while Sony used the same sensor in a camera with many more limitations and issues.
Your never ending defense of all things Sony is tiresome , your often abrupt terse responses also do not help. I am an owner of the A7r and fully aware of both its pluses and minuses. Though apparently you only want to hear Sony praise, nothing I have said is untrue and can be supported by many reviews and forum posts.
It is you who is getting tiresome and making me repeat myself. You are still bringing the issue down to some Sony vs Nikon rivalry, when I simply stated that I am not impressed with a specific update. I do have the exact same issue with specific Sony releases too.
My never-ending defense of Sony products is only due to the never-ending bashing they receive from people like you. If you actually do the effort to both read and think, you will see that I mostly limit myself to defending Sony and rarely putting down competing products.
Your bank account manager must fear you with all those toys.
They are working tools that pay for themselves many times over , not toys , though I still enjoy playing with my gear in my freetime lol
I have sold a number of A7r cameras to D800e owners who saw that their Nikon glass produced superior images on the superior sensor. D800e isn’t for fast anything: it’s a landscape, portrait, product, architectural photographer’s camera. And so is the A7r. But the A7r actually lacks a low pass filter, for real, not a software mitigation, and it’s lessened moire and better linear resolution in finer microcontrast holds this true. Oh and that it’s less than half the weight is a bargain. And most people who are shooting a D800e are manual focusing their landscapes: no one actually trusts PDAF to get wide angle to infinity correctly: that’s asinine… and with the EVF I can see things in lowlight and create images in those circumstances in situations an OVF would become a severe obstacle. To each their own.
Well put.
The A7r sensor is not superior to the D800e it is not surprisingly all but identical.
http://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Compare/Side-by-side/Sony-A7R-versus-Nikon-D800E___917_814
I have both cameras and have taken comparison images of the same subject using the same lenses with no discernible difference . Though sport is not my core business by any stretch, I have taken plenty of images of fast moving sports with the D800e that the A7r is totally unsuitable for both in AF and lens choice ,sure my D3s is a better suited tool than the D800e but it is far better than the A7r. As for low light EVFs are for me a poor choice for sport but as you say each to their own.
The weigh advantage other than for the couple of native primes { 35mm and 55mm } that I use , by the time you add in the weight of the adapter {ignoring the inconvenience and potential impact on image quality } your saving on the set up is 300-350g. Which while handy is hardly going to break my back. I have no complaints about the image quality of the A7r I am just hoping the next iteration will resolve many of the issues I listed.
All your critical points on the A7R are valid BUT……………..
The A7R isn’t a competitor to the D800E as a photographic tool. The A7R is a multi-media tool!
The A7R is far better for video acquisition with its EVF and infinitely better for audio acquisition via the multi-interface shoe using the balanced Sony XLR microphone adaptor!
The D800’s are photographic thoroughbreds for sure. The A7R is a multi-media mule just give it time it’ll get you where you want to go eventually and with far less fuss and preparation………..(:-)
It is actually far from just a minor change model you may not know many of current d800e hardware issues but this d810 to me is a complete version of the d800e should have been and as with the d4s it is a worthy update to many Nikon users who already have high end Nikon and zeiss glass for the F.
As I said, I am simply not impressed. Whether it is a worthy upgrade to your gear is up to you, I don’t see it as such. For me, most of the gear from most companies is not worth upgrading at each iteration and this is yet another example of it.
Agreed with Vlad. If upgrading means shelling out another $3000+ then it had better be an upgrade and not an incremental, “whoops, this is the camera we should have released but had neither the budget nor the engineering at the time to do so, also you still won’t buy our product for video, ever, if you know what’s good for you” upgrade.
For some the better live view and first curtain electronic shutter make it a complete stills camera, I think only one big negative of the d800e was the terribly noisy live view,and now it is fixed with better shutter unit. So for me this is a rational worthy upgrade to my d800e. For video I would not use my nikons or Sony alpha 7r but Panasonic gh4 or sony a7s. I think we should not use only one brand camera system, horses for courses. But that all said ,these days I use my a6000 very often with the excellent zeiss 55mm, I love the combo and I think it is the most practical walk around a mall kind of camera kit for now.
Try a E-P5 and Zuiko 25mm 1.8. Now that is a walkaround camera.
DPreview is on a mission to save Nikon from its disastrous choices and declining market. They’ll like what they see if it’s a V4 with pink stripes. After the Amazon buyout DPreview is no longer a credible source by any stretch of the imagination. I’ve also lost faith in DxO for the same reasons. If you don’t think Amazon is willing to mess with reviews simply to sell what it wants to you are sorely mistaken.
what would Amazon care on what is sold? They benefit regardless of what consumers choose- they sell it all!
From the video specs I see Sony’s DNA all over them. I think there is a strategy at play here to attack Canon’s DSLR/CSC video market share. When you combine the GH4, A7S, and D810 you end up with high, mid, and low end, from features and price, video cameras that all are aimed at different markets. Canon will have a hard time releasing something that can compete against all of them. Then at photokina I’m sure we will see a couple of surprises from Sony and the mirrorless manufacturers.
We can speculate until the cows come home one what it means for an a99II but I think the odds are this indicates it’ll use the same 36MP sensor as the Nikon D810. Not really disappointing because it’s a great sensor and a nice upgrade from the a99. It’ll be interesting to see what other features Sony adds to the a99II to see how it competes with the D810 other than just being a cheaper alternative. Can Sony finally pull off internal 4k in an Alpha? Hmmmmm……
Sony could close the gap with A-mount FF if they:
– got rid of SLT mirror so that it doesn’t steal light degrading high-ISO performance
– implemented AF system similar to A6000 in mirrorless A-mount camera, with at least 70-80% frame coverage. Current coverage and sensivity of AF in A99 is laughable, and a single point of frustration with the camera (I own it, I use it, yet hate the useless outmost AF sensors, which are still not even in 1/3rd of the frame).
But I lost all hope they are going to do that anywhere soon, so I’ll stick with my A99 until such camera arrives.
And Sony definitely needs a good set of tilt and shift lenses maybe 17,24 and 90 mm.
And a new marketing department to sell those ultra expensive specialty lenses.
Oh wait, you can already mount existing nikon and canon TS/PC lenses on the A7/r/s.
And there’s already a Samyang 24 TS.
Samyang 24 TS is not worth the price. I’d rather pay double and get the Canon. Also, I’d prefer something longer than 90 mm for product shots.
The best TS lenses for the 35mm format are made by Schneider Kreuznach, and they ARE available for A-mount: 28mm (not shipping yet), 50mm, 90mm.
They don’t look like being the best.
http://blog.mingthein.com/2014/03/18/review-schneider-pc-ts-50-90/
IMHO the best at the moment are Canon TS-E 17/4 L & TS-E 24/3.5 L II and PC-E Micro-Nikkor 85/2.8 D.
Particularly the TS-E 24mm is terrific in IQ, but sometimes it is not wide enough.
Agreed. The 24mm Canon is outstanding and the 17mm is not only great, but also the only option that wide.
For the A6000 AF to work it needs supported E-mount lenses, which means SONY ones and that’s it. Even some lenses had to have a downloadable firmware update and this is not possible for the end user to do with A-mount lenses as the mount chip can not hold the required information like it can on E-mount lenses.
The A-mount body has to hold that information which is why the A99 needed firmware updates for the few lenses that it holds in its firmware for the Hybrid AF. Sony would have to hold in firmware the support for EVERY A-mount lens from EVERY manufacturer to get the sort of AF speed you are asking for on a mirrorless A-mount. Then it still wouldn’t work because if they are using lens ID numbers these are not unique as Sigma has copied them for their lenses.
Why do you think there is still a mirror anyway? They don’t have it in there for fun, it is because a dedicated PDAF module is required for fast focusing on A-mount lenses and for that you need a MIRROR.
As for AF coverage, why do you think AF points are clustered around the centre of the frame? If it was easy to spread a dedicated PDAF modules AF points all over the frame, why haven’t they done it years ago? Even on the A77II (and CaNikon’s) the outer AF points don’t work with some lenses due to light fall-off, you’d have no chance at all at the edge of a frame.
I suggest you and others go and learn about how AF systems work before commenting on what Sony should be doing!
I suggest you abstained from patronizing people you pretend to be discussing with.
As for the special requirements related to information about the lens for hybrid AF to work, this is rather bullshit. Sony wants people to buy current production Sony lens so they “don’t support” third party lens with hybrid AF by limiting this in software to specific lens ids. Physically there is no reason why this technology wouldn’t work with any lens. Phase-detection sensors/pixels are quite simple devices and there’s no rocket science in them.
I know what is mirror for, I know how PDAF modules work, but I specifically wrote about A6000-like hybrid/OSPDAF AF which doesnt require mirror and has almost full sensor coverage, so I don’t understand your bashing.
Currently A99 has the smallest AF sensor area of all brands fullframe cameras, so if others can do, then why “leader of innovation” uses APSC AF sensor from A77? People pay more for fullframe camera and fullframe lens so they had fullframe-sized AF sensor too. In fact even my old A700 has larger AF sensor area than A99.
Sounds like you have the smallest penis of any poster on SAR, and yet you somehow endure.
If you are not going to educate yourself on how PDAF and OSPDAF work and the specifics of the lenses that are required to make them work, then continue to enjoy your ignorance. 5 minutes on Google is all that you need.
PDAF essentially is an electronic version of split prism used in MF cameras, there’s not much philosophy in it, just measuring the distance between the split image replicas. Now, you tell me what lens specifics you require to make that work?
Well done on reading the Wiki autofocus page, now read the rest as I’m not going to spoon feed you.
Ask yourself:
WHY the mirror is still needed.
WHY the A99 needed lens data updates for Hybrid AF.
WHY only specific lenses work with the A6000 OSPDAF.
WHY Sony E-mount lenses needed firmware updates.
WHY any brand of dSLR doesn’t have PDAF points at the outer edges.
It isn’t rocket science, it’s doing a bit of reading on Google and it’ll save you from making stupid statements like saying Sony should remove the A99 mirror and have a gazillion AF points like the A6000.
> WHY the mirror is still needed.
mirror is needed for dedicated PDAF to work, it’s not needed with hybrid OSPAF/CDAF. high sensivity, low noise sensors (like the one in A7s) and the support from OSPDAF makes CDAF faster and more precise (actually CDAF was always more precise, provided it had enough light)
> WHY the A99 needed lens data updates for Hybrid AF
so that new released and updated lens could be enabled in the software and their users could feel that they are not left in a bag of shit?
> WHY only specific lenses work with the A6000 OSPDAF.
so that we paid our money to Sony not to 3rd party manufacturers and the business kept moving
> WHY Sony E-mount lenses needed firmware updates.
because they are bugged as all products are. Sigma A-,F- and E- lenses got firmware updates too and they have nothing to do with hybrid AD.
> WHY any brand of dSLR doesn’t have PDAF points at the outer edges.
because of the lens aperture limiting the light at the edges. but hey! we’re talking about the leader in sensor manufacturing here, not just any brand dSLR. that’s what leaders do: they lead, so why can’t we get decent AF from the leader?
Don’t waste your time he doesn’t get-it whatsoever.
5 minutes on Google? Are you delusional?
Details of Sony’s Hybrid AF implementation are not published.
SLT is next generation technology, and future Full Frame cameras will outclass both DSLR, and mirror-less.
Your living in the past, SLT has already closed the gap ages ago, and the A77II dominates the future.
Apparently you missed the last dozen reviews on the A77II, because the SLT is the reason why its the best APSC-DSLR you can buy.
SLTis the reason the 79 point 40% coverage on the A77II is so outstanding. Its the reason why the Lock On Flexible Spot AF even exists.
SLT is the reason the A77II has a 12fps burst rate.
The current difference in ISO performance between it and its competitors in negligible.
The newer (20%) will rob the competition of any perceived competitive advantage.
Full-mirrorless is next generation technology, SLT is just a step in the mid-way. What I want is mirrorless A-mount, therefore I think I live in the future and you’re bound to the present compromise. When it comes to A77II I do rely on dxomark SNR performance graph which is clear: the same (or previous generation) sensor used by Nikon has 6dB noise advantage because they don’t have SLT. 6dB may be ngligible when you have 48dB of dynamic range at 100ISO but becomes an abyss when you have 20dB at 6400ISO. And when it comes to APSC I prefer A6000+LA-EA1 to A77II. With SSM lens it focuses quite quickly and has better noise performance. And A6000 has 92% coverage, which is as useless as A77II’s 40% but at least it has automatic focus mognifier which I can use seamlessly when there’s too little light for AF to work.
And Hydrogen cars will replace gasoline cars in the future.
Sorry to burst your bubble (delusion) professionals will continue to use full body cameras like the D810, 5DMIII, and A99II.
SLT cameras camera improvements between generations are greater than mirror-less. The A6000 IQ isn’t much of an improvement over the NEX-6. The difference between the A77, and the A77II is substantial.
The A77II is the best APS-C DSLR you can buy. Don’t waste our time with the technobabble.
So the next wave of SLT are going to be substantially better than the last. Canon is also developing a SLT-like (pellicle) camera.
Mirror-less is designed for people who like compact cameras, as opposed to high performance cameras, which is why Nikon, Canon, Pentax, and Sony make DSLR/SLT cameras. Not one mirror-less in production is even remotely as capable, and the D810.
Cameras like the D810, 5DMIII, and A99II, are going to be around for a long time.
Mirror-less ideal designed for people don’t need f/2.8 or better zooms, or f/1.4 or better, cause compact, and fast lenses can’t be said in the same sentence.
And they don’t play nicely with Flashes. The HLV-60M looks like a complete joke on the A7r.
And SLT Sales are growing year after year. So your opinion is valued but completely the opposite of market’s reality.
In case you didn’t notice: A99 is my tool of the trade. That being said, I don’t have any delusions about its features compared to D800, D610 (nor D810).
For paid, studio work it’s as good camera as any other, and probably A99II will be too. However, it could be better. And regardless of what you may think about it, its AF area and performance sucks big time. And as long as I adore its vast dynamic range and the ability to use focus peaking for most demanding shots (well, that’s the reason I use it after all), I can’t deny it’s mostly studio camera and Sony currently has no option when it comes to photojournalism/streetphotography stuff. A7s could be the one but it has fairly slow AF and no fast glass without resorting to LA-EAx stuff which defeats all idea of “compact mirrorless” camera. What I want from Sony is A7s counterpart with A-mount and A6000 hybrid AF.
I don’t think I’m asking too much. I just want revolution, not wannabe evolution.
All of agree Sony dropped the ball when they developed the A99. Which is probably the reason a MK II is being launched. I’m hoping the deficiencies are corrected because the A99 type camera has plenty of untapped potential.
Current A99 users should get a discount, when the new model comes out.
SLT is the only technology in the industry that is next generation.
Mirror-less is far from a next generation technology, it evolved from point and shoot camera technology, and nothing more. Its point and shoot heritage/baggage followed it.
They’re nothing more than point, and shoot cameras with interchangeable lenses, and that’s how the public, and professionals perceives them.
Its not even great technology, because as you add additional electronics to the sensor the IQ drop significantly.
The only benefit of mirror less is compactness, and I’d rather take our A77 to a shoot than our A7, because its overall performance is much better. Its faster, and more responsive than the A7 in 90% of our shooting scenarios. If I had a choice I’d sell it, and purchase two A77IIs instead.
However the A7 trounces the A77 only in ISO performance in theory, but the A77 comes equipped with a f/2.8 1650 which negates this possible difference.
Plus our A850, and A99 both have Zeiss 24-70s or 28-70 Minolta’s (cause they’re just better at taking people pictures)
The A6000 IQ or ISO performance isn’t an improvement over the previous model. Try to use it in poor lit locations, and it’s AF completely drops the ball. Its Dynamic Range also suffered.
Pro’s need speed, and the SLT is Sony’s only camera technology that delivers. Dedicated AF systems are faster, will continue to get faster with each successive generation.
Mirror-less will continue to evolve at a much slower rate, but significant penetration into the profession market is pure fantasy.
The SLT cameras will be receiving newer mirror that will cut the light usage in half in the next iteration of SLT cameras.
> SLT is the only technology in the industry that is next generation.
no, it’s not. it’s been used and abandoned 40 years ago.
> Plus our A850, and A99 both have Zeiss 24-70s or 28-70 Minolta’s (cause they’re just better at taking people pictures)
we still got them with the adapters
> The A6000 IQ or ISO performance isn’t an improvement over the >previous model. Try to use it in poor lit locations, and it’s AF completely drops the ball. Its Dynamic Range also suffered.
wtih A6000 I don’t have the expectations for the AF: I want the AF to know its limts and I want to use DMF when there’s not enough light. That’s the same with A99, only the difference is that with A6000 DMF is much more comforable. I want A99II to recognize and accept the fact that when it’s incapable of focusing, DMF is the only way I can get the results. I had no problems to get them with split-prism ground glass of Mamiya RZ67 (which I use all the time). With current A99 all I get is constant hunting in such light, I want more: AF, focus or begone!
> Pro’s need speed, and the SLT is Sony’s only camera technology that delivers. Dedicated AF systems are faster, will continue to get faster with each successive generation.
This is bull-shit. I have no problem with speed focusing with A6000 for street photography, I just need faster lens to get the creative effect I need. LA-EA1+SAL24F2ZA isn’t any smaller on A6000 than it is on A99 without the adapter, which efficiently defeats the purpose of the small mirrorless cameras.
The DSLRs were invented to address the limitations of digital cameras in the first place. Mirror-less cameras is nothing more than an evolution of a point and shoot camera, and will remain hopeless out classed by DSLR. The A7r isn’t even in the league as the D800, even with the same sensor.
You have no problem withmirror-less granted, well the rest of the industry does. And your in the minority.
The mirror-less is unlikely to penetrate the professional market now and in the future.
Your statement don’t address the shortcomings of mirror-less technology. Its great that it works for you, but for the clear majority of Professionals it is ill suited for work where performance, turnaround times matter, where credibility is on the line and there is no second chance to get it right.
The only thing bull-shit around here are your illogical statements regarding mirror-less as anything other than a work in progress.
I might take a second look ten years down the road, but the obstacles mirror-less faces have not changed since the first digital cameras were sold.
I think you’ll be shocked when the newest SLT models arrive in the fall. Hopefully you’ll still be part of the A team.
>SLT is the reason the A77II has a 12fps burst rate.
strangely, SLT doesn’t help A99 to have similar fps 🙂
if sony didnt realse the new a99 with comparable spec and sensor i am going to shot nikon ,,, i just want that damn 36mp in a99 body for so long just for the evf and ibis so the ball is in sony fields now
Even if they do nothing original, we’ll be looking at the a99’s body with a 36mp sensor and the a77ii’s af system. My guess is Sony is going to push the boat out though…
It is interesting that the 36 MP “Sony” sensor is electronic shutter capable while “the same” sensor in A7R is not.
Not “interesting” really, the D810 costs $1000 more.
EFCS reduces camera shake significantly, so it does matter for people who need 36 mpx rather than 24.
And it’s not the A7r sensor.
This means that Sony has some low hanging fruit after this announcement. Should be easy to up its DSLR presence if the don’t F up the A99II by overpricing it and making it a warm over.
I hope they’ll make A99II and A88, and.. don’t mess up either. Would be a perfect opportunity to upgrade my gear from A65 to one of the upcoming FFs.
From spec, it is a new sensor than a7r. And Nikon said it is different than d800 sensor, although Nikon didn’t say what is improved on sensor side
Leica has been doing unexciting upgrades for 6 decades and the Leicaphiles cheer with every upgrade. If the D810 is unexciting, blame Nikon fanboys, not Nikon.
I agree to a point. Even the most ardent fanboys, though, have no control over Nikon’s end decisions.
Nikon is not getting the A7r gapless sensor. This is a different piece. Sony will not likely be licensing out the sensor from the A7r… also, the A7r sensor is optimized for the mirrorless format so, unless someone else has a mirrorless 36mp camera up their sleeve, the A7r will be the only camera getting that sensor.
As someone mentioned the division that makes sensors is separate from the division that makes cameras. Do you honestly think that the head of the sensor division is going to lose sales to a huge camera maker so someone in a different division with fewer sales can simply have the better sensor? The sensor division is in business to sell sensor and will not care if they are going in Sony, Nikon or Canon cameras, a sale is a sale and the most sales they make the lower the cost of the sensor they are selling.
I honestly think that a sensor optimized for mirrorless is not going to go into a Nikon mirrored product and I do think Sony can modify and license those modifies senskrs to their little heart’s content. What I’m saying is that Nikon isn’t getting the A7r sensor specifically. That’s all.
lol, yes that’s right Sony has dozens of 36mp sensors just sitting on a shelf even for you this is pretty dumb, the A7r has the same sensor with different electronics around it
Sony sensor manufacturing division is similar to TSMC fab. They are capable of producing sensors to customer design specs.
Exactly.
What Stan says is accurate. Sony don’t need dozens: they just need specifications and Sony are quite capable of having several different sensor designs literally hanging around. Then they’ll modify electronics, glass plate, and even microlens design as necessary, all depending on what the client wants to pay for while even keeping certain bits of proprietary happiness to themselves. This business as usual in most electronic component fabrication. And your comment about “even for you” is invalid: you don’t know me.
There is NO competition Admin. Nikon and Canon are king. Without Nikon having Sony produce the sensors they design, Sony would even have more financial issues than they already do.
I’ve said it before, headlines like these do little more than create fanboys like yourself. I never see Nikon and Fuji rumor sites title headlines that bash the competition.
Why not try to unite photographers instead of creating meaningless fanboy wars? Why not post articles about achieving better lighting and compostion? Why not put more emphasis on taking pictures and less on what the camera looks and feels like?
Some food for thought.
Let the flames begin.
Why do you read this forum then?
It is possible to be interested in a companies products without having to make a vow of admiration and love in every post.
Probably to make fun of morons like you
Because it never ends. There is always someone to say something like “Nikon and Canon are king”. Of what? And where is admin ‘bashing’ the competition? Because he called the update ‘unexciting’? That’s it? Seriously, maybe you should read your own comment and try to appreciate the irony. After that, I invite you to realize that this here blog is clearly about gear, not photography techniques.
Because photographers take pictures; internet forum posters, post on the internet!
I am here because I have a decision to make. The odds are once I log off I will not be spending time posting on forums again for a while.
Good luck to everyone, and remember THE PHOTOGRAPHER TAKES THE PICTURE NOT THE CAMERA! THE CAMERA IS ONLY A TOOL!
Electronic First Shutter = New Sensor
I think that EFCS would be more important for the A7R than for D800 (= less vibrations and shorter shutter lag). The latter camera already has very small shutter lag with OVF.
A7R has a very long shutter lag which makes it not so good for action photography.
Admin, is there any chance to successor of Sony a58, Sony a65. Or will it be only e-mount?
I’m excited about it. The D800 was already an excellent camera, now the 810 is slightly better in most departments. Electronic front shutter is reason enough to want it. If I was buying a new camera this summer, the D810 or sony a7r would be top of the list…although the A7r is nice and compact, I would probably get the 810 because of more lens and accessory choices.
People in this forum are so unimpressed, typical internet forum. This camera will impress…big resolution, no anti-aliasing filter, with a raft of subtle improvements over the already formidable D800e.
+1, D800 was the best allround camera available, and Nikon improves it (slightly) in almost all areas. The sensor is obviously new with different low Iso and electronic first curtain. Electronic first curtain was one feature Sony said was impossible with the sensor in A7r.
We don’t know A7r’s sensor model/gen. Sony might be right that it is impossible for A7r. Doesn’t mean they can’t make another sensor as per OEM requested specs. Sony is the biggest sensor manufacturer on the market. Their imaging and photography divisions are separate entities. Their photography division has to order sensors from their imaging division, same way Nikon does it. The only difference is that their photography division knows what’s in the pipeline of sensor manufacturing and can decide whether to wait for the newer model or use existing.
It is entirely possible that Nikon has a newer sensor than A7r does. Happened before with plenty of other Nikon and Sony cameras.
LOL at SAR admin getting all wound up about the D800 upgrade. There’s plenty of good cameras out there doing fantastic jobs in capable hands. Some have Sony sensors. Some don’t. Stop behaving like a tearful 5 year old in a playground when another kid comes to school with a new toy. Grow up.
It’s SAR website. The whole point is to get information and have fun with the information that we get. It means that anything that’s related to Sony camera. You can now go back to the hole that you came from and stick your head back in there.
Oh dear. We seem to have another child in the playground.
Agree! Is it the same Admin or a summer substitute?
Hey! He’s just doing what’s expected of him being under Sony’s payroll.Terms like ‘competition news’ instead of ‘other brands’ are giveaways, dont you get it? 🙂
I’m interested to understand how and why Nikon can extract better high-ISO performance out of the (same) Sony 36mp sensor? The D800 was a smidgen better then the newer a7r and now the D810 seems to be a step further forward (based on the spec).
Why can’t Sony get the same performance out of their own sensors?
It is also $2200 or so vs $3300
According to the “photographic bench tests” there’s very little difference between the A7R & A7S either. But the guys who’ve actually “field tested” the two say the difference is somewhat greater. The video guys have stated the differences can be huge!
We’ll have to wait for proper tests by proper operators……………
＞But the guys who’ve actually “field tested
It’s matter of psychology.
＞The video guys have stated
For video there is a major difference: A7R skips some lines of pixels. A7S does full pixel read out.
Sure, physiology plays a huge part in the creation of art, personally I dislike flashy cameras and rigs, they can alter the mode of a shoot. The A7’s are very “unassuming cameras” that’s good in my book.
It doesn’t say anywhere that it is the “same” sensor. For all we know, A7r is probably using the same gen sensor as D800, while this one is a new sensor.
Just because it has the same pixel count, doesn’t make it the same.
And yes, I realize that bullet point 1 says that its the same. I’ll reserve my judgement until teardown review of D810. Has happened plenty of times, where one thought it was Sensor A, when after teardown it turned out to be Sensor B.
D3200 and D5200 come to mind.
The difference was measured to be about 0.06 EV at a single data point with a margin for measuring error being 0.33 EV. Looking at the full graphs and examples confirms they perform about the same.
Specs don’t tell you anything about RAW noise performance.
Only bad thing one might find in this is that it might signal that the sensor war is over and the 36mp maybe the final high megapixel FF sensor for some time… That isn’t necessarily bad for the Nikon fans, but for Sony fans it is – because Nikon has a much stronger lens and flash base than Sony and Sony’s only chance to move ahead was in better sensors because they will never catch up with Nikon on the lens and flash front, they are just too far behind, not to mention they suffer from a perpetual case of mountitis where they continue throwing new mounts out every other year.
Agree on Sony having a case of ADHD, but that doesn’t mean that you have to. Plenty of people are using Sony A-Mount for professional and amateur work. We select cameras based on our needs. At this point Sony is the only one on the market with FF cameras that have EVF and IBIS. EVF alone is the primary reason I haven’t defected to Nikon/Canon camp yet. IBIS for me is just a very nice addition.
Yes, and short sighted individuals made the same flawed claim when sensors reached 6 megapixels. Sony will keep on improving it’s sensors as well as it’s lens collection and other peripherals. And Sony is not far behind on the “flash front”, and could make up the difference and surpass Nikon in one fell swoop. Flash technology is much simpler than sensor technology. Nikon will continue to depend on Sony for their sensors, putting Sony in the drivers seat. Sony can at any time terminating their strategic partnership on sensors, leaving Nikon in a lurch. Your assessment is flat wrong.
Nikon has Aptina, they don’t rely on Sony for 100% of their sensors. Besides, they also have small scale in-house sensor production as well.
They rely on Sony for their best sensors, like the one found in the D800 series. By the time they ramp up inhouse production they will fall hopelessly behind in sensor technology. The result could sink Nikon.
Well, Aptina sensors in D5300 and D610 (if i’m not mistaken on models) perform quite well against Sony sensors. There is nothing that is stopping Nikon from asking Aptina to ramp up production or even buying it outright. Nikon uses in-house sensor production for small scale cameras like D3x i believe. Again, not 100% sure on models.
D610 is a Sony sensor, like I said Nikon relies on Sony for their best sensors.
And I did say i’m not sure on models. Then it must have been D600. I don’t exactly recall which model has what. There isn’t a reference guide available that has sensor brands listed. And frankly I don’t care which sensor is used by which camera. Its the implementation that matters, not sensor brand.
The D5300 is a Nikon design fabricated by Toshiba
The Toshiba built Nikon designed sensor in the D7100/D5300 remains the best APS sensor on the market { narrowly] . I imagine that Nikon will sell far far more D5300/D7100’s than their FF alternatives.
The D5300 revision may be, the D7100 version suffers from quite severe banding at lower ISO’s, almost at Canon level. Which greatly reduces the usable a mount of DR, even when using debanding tools like NikDfine or Topaz Denoise.
Zohee , you are a fanboy extraordinaire .The only way to show banding on the D7100 at low ISO is to take a very high contrast shot and then push the deepest shadows by multiple stops in post . So lets see a link to an honest low ISO shot without multi-stop shadow pushes in post that shows “severe banding”
Way to show your ignorance. The only way to use/exploit the DR of current sensors is by exactly doing that, exposing for highlights and pushing shadows several stops in high DR scenes. Many people have been doing that for years with cameras using more recent Exmor sensors (D7000, K5, A580, A99, D800, etc.). Sometimes referred to as “ISO-less” shooting.
If you don’t care for that extra DR, great, but some do and the D7100 already suffers visibly at a relatively mild 2 stop deep shadow push in contrasty daylight. A D7000 can easily handle more than 4 stops without banding. That’s a significant difference.
Nikon doesn’t produce actual sensors, all of their designs are outsourced.
Really? I was under impression that their in-house sensor division produces sensors for their top end low scale cameras like D3x.
I remember reading this somwhere a while back.
The D3X sensor was produced by Sony, a small update (mainly in read noise and 14 bit RAW option) from the one in the A900/A850. It’s an Exmor.
His assessment sounds Trollish. Sony’s lens base is small, but most are high quality, and Sigma has been filling in the gaps for years. The flash system just needs a command unit, to control the flashes.
However Sony DSLR usage is growing as EVF technology becomes mainstream.
Your statement is utter non-sense!!!
Sony’s lenses are well above average, and some are exceptional pieces of glass. Their core lenses cover the most important focal lengths, and are the most common in use with professionals today.
Sony doesn’t waste its time on many speciality lenses, unless they have a large used base. There is no point wasting millions on R&D to appease 1 or 2% of you user base.
If you don’t like the flash system, your in the minority. I find my two 42s, and 58s work flawlessly for 90% of my work. I’m haven’t used the over heating 60.
And you can always invest in a Phottix Odin if your not happy. Its an exception piece of kit.
I’d switch to this Nikon in a NY second if my Minolta lenses could be used.
Put this sensor in a900 body and they’d sell like hot cakes. It’s the camera I really want, even without video. Multiple resolution RAW and a real flash system again. Oh my.
Only Sony could screw up the basics, and force torture of a7R toy camera upon those who want best resolution available. Fairy tale a99II will arrive one day still without a smart flash system, no flash cables, or any grand promise of the new hot shoe fulfilled. Probably will have LP filter and no multiple RAW resolution options. Just sitting around waiting for the next Sony disappointment.
Then sell your Sony and Minolta equipment and buy Nikon. What are you waiting for? There is never going to be an A900 incorporating the latest 36 megapixel sensor, stop dreaming and make a decision. Whining about it solves nothing, just makes you look indecisive and weak.
Forcing togs into another system was NOT part of Sony game plan. Unless they’re complete idiots… oh wait.
The funny in that game is that anyone can step over to Sony and still use all his lenses, the opposite is almost impossible, except for 4/3 system and all mirrorless where you can use adapters. It is that game that Canikon has not understood yet. Canon has a crappy mirrorless and for Nikon, no need to make noise about it.
You must not have used a Sony full frame a7 series camera, as the E mount lenses are made for APSc sized sensors. Full frame covers a 2.25X larger area and the E mount lenses do not cover it. There is no point spending the money for a full frame camera and then using APSc lenses on it. You might as well just buy an APSc camera and save a bunch of money (plus the Sony APSc cameras have built in flashes). Only lenses with the FE designation are made for the full frame Sonys. Currently there are only a few available. As for Alpha lenses please read my comment above about the negatives of translucent mirror technology.
If you want to use an a7/r/s with auto-focus and full function, there are very few lenses to choose from!
You’re right Validator. Great idea. Dumping my entire lens collection is a one time suffering. Staying with Sony is ongoing eternal suffering.
Listening to you whine is making us all suffer.
Then sell your Sony and go to another forum to ignore the truth.
A7R is ok, but under featured and low quality build compared to cheaper competitive mirror less cameras. Still, great bang for the buck. I’d be all over the A7R, but it just doesn’t wow me as a camera. I keep going back to the store and picking it up to try and get into it. Something keeps turning me off. I hope Sony doesn’t wait to release the A7 successor. This next one should be a fast turn around. Until then it’s still A900.
The crapy Sony flash system is the reason I still use my Nikon. I tried using Sonys flash system and funny thing was I would randomly get shots that were over exposed even when another shot of the same subject with the same settings would be perfect… I’ve never had that problem with a Nikon. If Sony wants to make real inroads they need to stop creating new camera mounts and systems and perfect the flash system.
Wow!!!
You really have no idea how to use their flash system then. I have no troubles what-so-ever. The Minolta designed system is fantastic. I can control all my flashes with one HVL-58, and I’ve never had any reliability problems. There is absolutely no lag in the system while in use.
But I also use this crazy thing called a “light meter” in order to ensure my pictures look perfect.
The Mino system is dead, and still great with tons of options and accessories currently available. I have multiple heads and Phottix Odin system. It’s wonderful.
Can’t get any of it to work on a7R. Fires full power regardless of settings. Works great on all native iISO hotshoe cameras.
Sony should sell a command unit to free up the primary flash unit, with better controls.
If / Until Sony makes a commander or integrates radio control – it would be damn nice if Sony would make a simple software adjustment to the f20m flash to stop the preflash pulses to trigger optical flashes / monologhts.
Apparently you can’t read. Same subject, same setting and a shot will randomly be was overexposed. A light mete was used but their flashes aren’t consistent.
If you think a7r is a toy and a900 isn’t, you have no clue about using cameras. .. which explains why you’re sitting around whining about a camera that doesn’t exist.
Heh, would you like to compare features important to field shooting… which has diagonal scrolling? Which has SSS? Which has a complete smart flash system with native cables and tons of accessories? Which has shutter vibration and light leak issues? Which loads images faster for playback? Which one magnifies playback at the AF point selection? Which can shoot 900 images on one battery? Which can change AF point faster with one click? Which works with 1.4x and 2x tele extenders? Which requires expensive adapters to mount existing Alpha lens collection?
Come on genotypewriter… let’s hear it.
rofl… none of my large format and medium format cameras have those features too. so they must be toys as well.
if you want flash and a highspeed dslr you need to get something real from Canon or nikon… not some piece of junk like the a900 that was outdated the day it hit the shelves. a7r images look better than the a900 images. what the a900 can do better than the a7r, there are ones from canon and nikon that it even better. What the Canons and Nikons cant do, the a7r can do. Which leaves the a900 in a discount bin… for being not the best st anything.
There’s no cure for stupidity. .. you’re the proof.
Nice way to move the goal posts by pointing to other formats. None of your cams advance by LOSING features. a7X loses many hard won features from decades past on the format being discussed here, all for the sake of tech masturbation of tiny toy size that can’t perform.
Do your MF have light leaks and vibrating shutter issues? Do they shut down tethering because the second battery won’t transfer power automatically? Which one of your cams has over 160,000 on the shutter like my piece of junk a900 does? Which one of your cameras loses features and calls it advancement? While you’re changing batteries and relaunching tether software in front of frowning clients, I’ll be driving home, backups complete, with another job well served by the trusty a900. And I won’t have to insult you to hide the weakness of my position.
BTW… every Canon I’ve owned grows creaky and loose over time, and their IS degrades image quality. Every Nikon lens I’ve owned suffers so much focus shift they can’t be used for critical close ups. None of the Minolta’s or ZA’s suffer from that. There are reasons to use real Alpha cams that have nothing to do with kiddy toys.
Agree 100%. We kept our two A850s for this exact reason.
All you say suggests that you really haven’t used good gear, you have a very limited knowledge but you have formed conclusions about everything. IS reduces IQ? Total ignorance lol
If you can’t take good photos with a a7r, the problem is you. No light leaks that I’ve noticed. ROFL Get a real camera… I wouldn’t use an a900 as a doorstop.
(I quote you:) “BTW… every Canon I’ve owned grows creaky and loose over time,”…
You must of either used an entry level model and / or got it wet or banged it around a lot / or all of the above. I know photographers who have used the same Canon camera for years, and it still works to spec.
…”and their IS degrades image quality”…
Again, you have to learn about photography. IS is for specific shutter speeds only. If you use it with too high or too low a shutter speed it does add shake, If you use it in its intended target it removes shake, That is for stills. For video IS is always helpful to smooth out the jitters. It is true that the very first generation of IS produced slightly lower IQ, even within its target shutter speeds, and the non IS versions of the same lens were slightly sharper. That is only in the early first generation lens based IS. The newest Canon and Nikon lens based IS / VR is fantastic and when needed works great; also when switched off the moving element is stable and does not degrade IQ at all. Since you like Alpha cameras perhaps you are basing this on in-body stabilizers that outside of the shutter speed where it helps, does add a significant amount of shake, So you are basing your opinion on either very outdated lens based IS or Sony’s in-body stabilizer; that you did not take the time to learn where it helps and where it hurts!
…”Every Nikon lens I’ve owned suffers so much focus shift they can’t be used for critical close ups. None of the Minolta’s or ZA’s suffer from that.”…
1. If you know your lens has focus shift then manual focus it for critical work. (What’s the big deal?)
2. Focus shift is on the older D lenses, The newer lenses are supposed to be better in this regard.
…”There are reasons to use real Alpha cams that have nothing to do with kiddy toys”..
All camera are toys, unless you know its strengths and weaknesses intimately through usage, AND you know how to take a creative picture. All cameras are creative TOOLS in the right hands. It is the photographer who creates the image, not the tool / camera!
I would not buy a 900 body with that sensor, I would never like to go back to any DSLR anyway, here many of us are split in opinion. With the additional battery grip and the LA-EA 3/4 adapters, A7R is a huge tool to work with and I have the choice between all kind of lenses, including my old Minolta glass. On the other side, there is no doubt that a simpler DSLR with OVF in the 900 style would find customers. What would fit me is simplified version of A7R with better autofocusing system, still shutter ability and no video at all, simply a camera with all the necessary to shoot photos only.
Utter nonsense, the ability to save the live view as a video file does nothing to the ability to capture still photographs. It’s like complaining that the ability to use autofocus lenses somehow makes worse photographs even if a user can choose to use manual focus. All Sony alpha cameras must shoot video to feed the EVF/LCD. If there are deficiencies in your photos, don’t blame the camera because the dial has a video mode blame the four inches behind the camera.
The entire culture on the internet regarding cameras, is that the camera takes the picture; the operator is just an automaton who pushes a button. Don’t like your photos? Blame the camera. Not inspired? Your gear must be uninspiring.
Nothing could be further from the truth! A good photographer can capture a far more interesting image with an old camera and a basic lens than a poor photographer can with the most expensive camera out there!
Don’t believe it? Just look at all the boring pictures taken with Leica cameras and lenses by people with money who have no time or desire to learn about photography and art. Go on Flickr and see for yourself; boring. On the other hand take a look on Flickr (or other sites) at some of the excellent pics taken with very basic and inexpensive cameras and lenses. There are some real gems!
Of course if you know what you are doing a better camera / sensor / lens will help you express your vision, but it does not work the other way around!
I couldn’t agree more. Cameras today are so good that the main limit to producing great photos is imagination / vision.
The camera you want is already out. It’s called Nikon Df.
The whole “exclusivity contract” story sounded like a hoax to begin with. The sensor wasn’t ready yet for fulltime LV in an SLT according to Sony due to lack of (read out) speed and overheating. Apparently it is now and finally they managed to introduce EFC too. Which hints at small updates (first for the A7R, now for the D810) throughout the lifetime of this sensor.
There would be little reason for Nikon to demand exclusivity, since Sony is a relatively small player in their field of higher end cameras anyway.
Makes sense.
This is a great opportunity for Sony.
The Nikon is going to retail for $3400.00, and Sony can easily sell the A99II for a much lower price. If the A99II were to sell for between $2299.99 to $2499.99, the A99II would be very disruptive.
Sony can easily integrate 4K into the larger body, and should this capability be included Nikon aspirations of the D810 becoming a tool of DSLR video dominance would be cut short.
Sony can easily up the burst rate on its DSLRs, because they don’t have to worry about cannibalizing higher priced cameras (cause the don’t have one, but Nikon does). An A99II capable of between 8-10 fps would be a read head turner.
Sony AF system has made massive in roads the A77II system is outstanding. Should a larger version with 119 points or, and 50% or better coverage better be applied Nikon’s D810 system would be simply out classed.
The D810 would probably hold the edge IQ, and ISO performance, but only by a couple of percentage points. Sony will trounce its video capabilities of course.
Sony close the gap? ahaha with playstations maybe or tv… lenses? where are the lenses???? good bye sonuy
They have plenty of lenses for professionals, just not enough to please the Trolls, and non-pros/gear-heads.
So GFY…. troll
LMAO Shaz_idiot probably won’t be able to figure it out
nope Kate_funny_nobody
LMAO just because my statement affects your low self-esteem you have to “try” to offend? mm that says a lot of you mister nobody
If you are counting on using A mount lenses with the translucent mirror adapter, on an a7/r, you might as well buy an a99. Why? Because the translucent mirror technology diverts 2/3 of a stop of light away from the sensor, it makes the photos look flat and not clear, like photographing through a window, and there is no self-cleaning dust off of the translucent mirror; it just accumulates and causes softness until it is cleaned off!
Translucent mirror technology never took off on the Alpha cameras (for the above reasons), but since they have many Alpha lenses they still sell this adapter. Instead of a new improved adapter that is hollow and will work with focusing system that is in place on the a7/r camera.
The only choice you have to use Alpha lenses is to photograph through a translucent mirror
[ New Oxford American Dictionary: |transˈluːs(ə)nt| adjective:
(of a substance) allowing light, but not detailed images, to pass through; semitransparent ]
with AF or a current hollow adapter with no AF (third party) or (if you can find one) a Sony old model hollow adapter that supposedly takes 5-7 seconds to lock on focus. This is why Sony pushes the translucent adapter (because the focusing time is acceptable with it.
If you want FE full frame dedicated lenses there is only a few available. Also, from what I’ve seen online, the Sony Zeiss FE 24-70 f/4 is has average IQ, very disappointing! It is only better than the FE 28-70 f/3.5-5.6 which is poor IQ and slower. Both Canon and Nikon newer mid zooms are much nicer than this big disappointment!
Sony can be good MF with adapters and other manufactures lenses, the point is that SONY DOES NOT HAVE LENSES, OR A FLASH SYSTEM, THAT WORKS FULL FUNCTION WITH THE A7/R! On the flash note, as a current Nikon owner, I love the tiny built in flash that can be used as a commander for a more powerful side flash, or when I want to walk about with one lens and not carry anything else. The a7/r has no b.i. flash and the Sony small model flash is sold out and back ordered for a long time!
I think Sony is just paving the way for Nikon Pentax etc. to buy their sensors and come out with a proper full frame mirrorless system. What other reason would they be so deficient in lenses and flash?
Hopefully Canon or Nikon will come out with it soon. Perhaps the rumoured Fuji / Panasonic collaborated, organic and random colour photodiodes sensor will be out soon. A full frame version of it into either a Fuji of Panasonic (or a collaboration of both) body and / or Nikon or Canon will use it and into a small flip lcd camera and Sony can stop pulling on us. Somebody will eventually have a fully equipped full frame light weight system with flip out LCD (imperative for video). I hope it’s soon!
Get the latest catalog, your’s outdated
nope, their catalog is like 1/100 of canon’s catalog
Who needs and owns 575 lenses? I have been taking pictures for 40 years now, landscapes, sexy models in studios, and some macro. Those are 3 completely different fields. I’ve never had more than 3 lenses. A 85mm macro, a zoom like a 18-105mm or a 28-70mm and a standard 50mm. And I mostly used the zoom lens 95% of the time. This has been taken with a cheap “non existing” Sony lens… And for the lenses maniacs, on the Sony A7, you can put Nikon, Canon, Leica, Zeiss lenses with adapters, to name these only…
There was a much more unexciting one from Canon a couple of months ago. They upgraded an entry model after 2 years and the only thing they improved was video, from vga to 720p.
Oh of course it got a slightly higher model number, if that counts as an improvement.
Why complaining about the D810 just being a small update?
The improvements probably don’t justify an upgrade from D800(E), but those who where missing those improvements wanting to upgrade from APS-C or D600/610 may find their perfect new tool.
At least it seems, that Nikon listened to the majority of their customers who wanted some changes to the D800(E).
Whatever Sony will put into the A99II there will be the two main fractions (resolution versus frame rate and hISO), where one will be happy and the other will be moaning that Sony didn’t came up with their wanted holy grail.
Can imagine what discussions will come up here. 🙂
Well, the discussion will probably the usual godly one, “NO 4K”. Since today we get video cameras that can also shoot photos, this one will certainly be a deception for all those 4k donkeys. Look D810 comments on DPR and you will get an idea of this. For me it’s simply the 3299$ that are insulting, for the rest, I agree that this new D810 has a few attempting features compared to it’s previous versions. Anyway, this camera is even in this version outdated, the holy grail at the moment is 4k and 12 mpix. It’s like certain religions, back to the 3d century when it concerns stills shooting.
“the holy grail at the moment is 4k and 12 mpix”
Do you ever fall prey to the marketing machine that is Sony! Do you really need 4K? Do you really think that you need higher ISO than very usable 12800 that the D810 will have?
is it really the same sensor? I’m not into Sony A7 series, but has the A7R also ISO 64 and low ISO 32???
I don’t believe, either. Nikon says it is a different sensor.
No, it does not! A simple look on Sony’s site and you will see that it is ISO 100 for stills (ISO 200 for video), with an extended low for stills of ISO 50.
Also, how they handle the files and the pipeline of the processor makes a big difference. Nikon offers (for stills) uncompressed RAW 14 bit, as well as various smaller file sizes. An uncompressed RAW file in the Nikon D800/E is on average 75 megs. The a7r has only one type of RAW storage, and on average is 37.5 megs. (See dpreview in their RAW file comparison.) The a7r in RAW has exactly 1/2 the file size of the Nikon D800E; this equals a lot of compression. Google this and you will see posts and tests about this. One lab type tester analyzed the data from Sony RAW a7r and concluded that the amount of colour data there was equivalent to only 11 bit! Sony refused to address this for a very long time. Eventually Sony added a comment in their site that says: “when processed with Sony’s image data converter, it brings out all the colours 14 bit has to offer”. Sony’s RAW converter is very, very slow. It reprocesses the image every time you make a slight adjustment, and you have to wait each time. It also is unstable and regularly crashes. The adjustments are limited, there is no way to work on your images in full screen, it is surrounded by a large white border that is an eye strain, without the ability to set it to back. That is why most people use lightroom, and are working with 11 bit colour data! If they use Sony’s image data converter, it takes at least 4X longer per image, and it regularly crashes, loosing all the time you just spent on the image in front of you. This alone is enough to justify the extra expense of the Nikon over the Sony. Now that the Nikon is new and improved it’s ever better. Plus the Sony has a well reported vibration issue that Nikon has addressed and improved on the D810.
If only the D810 didn’t weigh so much and had a built in flip LCD; OR if Sony had a built in flash, with commander mode, and the option of 14 bit uncompressed RAW stills. So again the camera world is about this feature or that, and no company will give you all the features in one camera. However the market is slowing down, hopefully a light weight full featured camera, with lots of lenses to choose from, will soon be available.
Please and thank you!
Low ISO is useful. It’s like an electronic ND filter. I’d like ISO 32 in my next camera too.
1.This is a different sensor, much better than that one on A7R or D800.
2.ISO range is widely extended
3. nikon users around me are very excited about this
4. The D800 or A7R sensors are designed by NIKON as I know.
Hahaha. At no time have Nikon ever claimed that they designed the sensor in the D800. Their modus operandi is is not claim any of their sensors. Because they not Nikon sensors. They are all third partly sensors.
I don’t know if they have publicly, but in conversations with Nikon support, they are very adamant that Nikon designs the sensors and Sony manufactures them.
Nikon claims some of their sensors as their own designs. The D4 for example. Read the literature.
Recent example…..??? web link perhaps etc etc…whilst gently sifting out the marketing smoke screen…
Sure, Nikon designed a Sony Exmor FF design that was a scaled up version of the Sony 16MP APS-C sensor first found in the A580 and A55.
The extension of the ISO range is probably implemented because of better jpeg processing.
The D810 Is too small of an improvement. It will look rather outdated in a couple of months once next generation bodies are released at Photokina. Which is precisely why Nikon chose to release this camera pre Photokina. It looks as though Nikon didn’t have the resources to pull together a completely new generation camera.
There’s no indication to me that Sony’s a99II will date the D810 unless they can pull a rabbit out of their hat like internal 4k. While I had some hopes 4k internal would show up in the a99II based on a comment admin made, I really doubt Sony will bother given the a7S is just out.
The only hint at a camera that might impress is the rumored new Canon sensor and it’s only a CR2 and I don’t think we’ll see bodies based on it until 2015 (if it isn’t bs).
It appears the Nikon D810 does well in low light. This is ISO 3200. Hope the A99II shares the same sensor. Could be sweet!
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5494/14507792761_9b58118bb3_o.jpg
The Sample photos released for the D810 all seem to look very soft/out of focus to me…
Interesting, it appears Nikon France either turned them private or took them down off of Flickr. My only issue with them is the subject mix wasn’t a very good sampling to show off their capabilities.
NIKON did it again!!!
As in release a “new” model that their only purpose is that nikon can firesale the previous model without angered the ones that pay 2 or 3 times the “original” price of the now “obsolete” model (that clearly, taking out the hype, its the same camera)
What is wrong with people? If you have a D800E and do not see enough of an improvement with the new D810, then stay with your D800E, and focus on producing beautiful photographs. [ If you don’t know how to do that, how about learning about camera technique and photography and art; instead of dissing Nikon for not giving you more technology? ]
If you do not have a D800E or are considering an upgrade, then this is great news! The D810 includes:
A new [ Expeed 4 ] processor (which is faster and produces better JPEGS); a new and improved sensor; faster fps [ 5 vs 4 ]; 60p video [ instead of 30p ]; a built-in stereo mic [ instead of mono ]; (claimed) more accurate AF; a more dampened mirror, and a first curtain shutter [ for less internal vibration ]; improved resolution of the LCD [ now 3.2″ and 1229K dot ]; improved LCD performance (can now zoom in up to 45X); group area AF for single point focusing (from the D4s, and supposedly increases accuracy and prevents miss-focusing on the background on distant small subjects); (a promise of video with) “significantly reduced moiré and false colour”; and “consistently wide dynamic range from standard ISO 64 to 12800”.
This is good news; they have tweaked and improved all that is deficient on the D800(E). Anyone who is serious about photography and is considering buying a D800(E) can rejoice; the D810 is a big improvement in real world usage!
That it does not have 4K video, is the only (IMO) disappointment; and no built in flip LCD. [ When will Nikon and Canon get it, that flip LCD is very useful for video, and if the camera does not have it built in this adds a lot of weight to the camera to plug an external one in. ] Remember, that the Sony a7s does not record 4K video [ like the smaller sensor Panasonic GH4 does ]. The Sony only has 4K VIDEO OUTPUT to an external recorder; and only on the 12mp a7s model. A non AA filter 36mp camera and an AA filter 12mp camera are two different beasts.
It is possible that in time Nikon will offer 4K video out through a firmware update. Especially if enough people whine and complain about it in forums, and call / email Nikon to do this. Canon did so on their 5D Mk III and added HDMI video out and f/8 focusing when it originally did not have these features. It makes more sense to praise all the well listened to and thought out improvements; and make some internet noise as a constructive request for a firmware update. That way Nikon will hear your request and may offer a firmware update soon to include 4K video out!
Wow, so much hate. lol
http://nikonrumors.com/2014/06/26/nikon-d810-sample-images.aspx/#comments
I don’t see so much “hate” but the same disappointment many in SAR (including myself) have shown over incremental upgrades like the a77 to a77II. Unfortunately, camera tech creeps slower ahead than our expectations. ;^)
I hope the D810 doesn’t suck but so much because I’m pretty sure the 36MP sensor in it will end up in the a99II.
The D810 is just an incremental improvement on the already solid D800/e . I would gladly take that sensor in an a99II.
I wonder if Nikon again got exclusive 2 year rights for this sensor?
No because it is the A7R sensor…with the A7R micro lenses. Nothing exclusive there… They bought 2nd hand
As it is said in journalism, what’s your source? Without a credible source nothing is “confirmed”. From Nikon’s website: http://imaging.nikon.com/lineup/dslr/d810/
They state again (twice on the opening page for the D810):
“New Nikon FX-format CMOS image sensor delivers stunningly sharp images via 36.3 effective megapixels, with consistently wide dynamic range from standard ISO 64 to 12800”
Then they go on to say:
“EXPEED 4 image-processing engine renders high-definition images with enhanced sharpness, rich tonality, accurate color reproduction and carefully controlled noise across all ISO sensitivities”
No, it’s not the A7R sensor. Different base ISO, better noise performance.
Yes it is the same sensor. What you see in base ISO and noise performance comes from Nikons processing of the image in the camera….doesn’t change the sensor….In the same way that the A7II has better noise performance than the A7 but yet uses the same sensor.
Not the same sensor.
Better performance.
Confirmed it is the same sensor. But they have included the micro lenses as per the A7R. So it is in fact a 2nd hand sensor…
Unless you can quote your source, then you are only repeating opinions and rumours. According to Nikon’s website: http://imaging.nikon.com/lineup/dslr/d810/
“The D810’s all-new FX-format image sensor and EXPEED 4 image-processing engine work together to produce images with greater clearness.”
Confirmed not the same sensor. Base ISO is 2/3 stop slower.
yes it is…. see previous comments
JPEG and RAW!