As I told you before we will get plenty of new cameras from Sony within the next 3-4 months. Along the new A-mount cameras we will also get new E-mount cameras! A couple of sources told me that this time we will really see the new NEX-7 successor! Finally!
As you know there is a big show in Japan in mid February (CP+). I guess we will see all that new stuff by than!
One more thing: There may be even more cameras we haven talked about yet (for example new RX).
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Reminder (SR = Sonyrumor):
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254 Responses
At this point the number one question mark is “what form factor” ?!
Hopefully the NEX line, otherwise it would be the A7 / A7R
I’m afraid that if they keep a half frame E-mount resembling a NEX 7, there won’t be a full frame one, Then we’d be stuck with the ugly a7/R design for the entire full frame E-mount lineup.
I could imagine it will look just like an A7, only with a nice dx sensor.
Sony dropped the name freeing them to change the form-factor——A7/R most likely.
They can use name ‘NEX’ for anything whatever they want. Have you forgotten NEX-FS100, NEX-VG900 ?
It’s a decision Sony recently made, NEX is now Alpha, and their product number is ILCA (A-mount) and ILCE (E-mount). People are wondering what about their video E mount series as it’s not mentioned.
For the professional video E mount, it’ll probably be renamed as NX-FS700 and etc since it belonged in the NXCAM & AVCHD product family.
They better keep the two dials at the back and the shutter on the grip.
hopefully N_O_T either anything a3000-line or with a faux-pantaprism A7-like 🙁 !!
Remember people, there’s a reason for the big hump on the A7. It’s not there just to make it look retro. If you look at the optics and space required for the A7 quality viewfinder, it’s a lot more than the NEX 7’s needed. Look at those blow up drawings of the innards of the A7. The hump is almost entirely taken up by the viewfinder. That’s not a small piece. Coupled with the full frame sensor, there’s simply not enough room in the body for the nice viewfinder optics and a FF sensor. I would bet for a NEX 7 body form factor, you can’t have either one and fit. They’d have to make it bigger in some dimension. Maybe they could do FF and the NEX 7 finder, or maybe they’ll get a more compact, yet just as optically pleasing finder tech by then.
Remember, everything takes space. Often, the premium features take up more space. (Not always though)
@amp – well, that line of reasoning only holds some water IFF the N7 mk-II would be FF, which I not embrace at all, and hope they’ll keep it APS-C !!
Also – assuming APS-C – it is much more important to me to have both: [a] built-in VF, AND [b] as small, discreet frontal profile as it can be done = the N7 mk-I was a very, very good compromise in this regard 😀 !!
Greetings,
I am very curious about a specification, especially when I read that there is no direct successor of Nex-7 and I already bought Sony A7R.
Best regards, WZ.
7 FF or APS-C?
Sony nex apsc or FF is an amateur line. And that’s the reason why Sony has not introduced many lenses for them, because they are horrible to hold with bigger lenses, which eventually is what most noobs, enthusiasts get. having said that, if sony wants to be taken semi seriously in the still market they need to make a dlr of some sort. They have already ditched the dslr, then made the dslt and chances are they may have ditched that as well. I think Sony is running out of things to abandon or make proprietary.
Instead of making new variations of the same old camera over and over..why doesn’t Sony just make a damn camera and keep improving on it? this would give their users some stability and dependability, right? No, Sony doesn’t care about that, if they aren’t changing something every 6 months then they aren’t scratching their flip floppy disease. Sony is sure not getting any new users with their flip flopping, but any one can plainly see that investing in a Sony camera you may like will chances are, change or disappear next year. Say goodbye to your investment.
I am a very happy amateur noob enthusiast 🙂
“new variations of the same old camera over and over” is a pretty blunt statement after the novel A7(r) is just released….
well, haters gonna hate
1) a camera is NEVER an investment !!! lol… Some lens can be, but bodies, hell, never.
2) those who want conventional DSLR with plenty of lenses and pro support can go to CaNikon. I shoot Sony beause they offer innovative features nobody else does.
3) yes larger lenses are unbalanced on small bodies with AF adaptor… yet I enjoy the versatility of my NEX7 able to slip in my purse of shoot action with a 70-200/2.8, depending on my needs !
Sure it is. Try telling that to the folks who bought a 43 dslr.
Exactly like I thought you were. You invested too much money on m43 tiny sensor and now sony comes with compact body but with big balls
And now all you can do is to hate everything bout sony to justify your investment in a micro tiny sensor camera system.
@ Ihur, try to re-read his comment once again – you missed something and you’re talking about something completely different
“a camera is NEVER an investment !!! lol… ” -> Digital? no, film, oh yeah, you just need to get the right one 😉
Sure, and then your camera dies in a few years, and then you want to upgrade and then bam! Sorry, we don’t make those anymore! Try our new cameras, it has an EVF and you have to like it cause you got no choice.
@ Datsun – replying to wrong person? otherwise I don’t understand what you’re up to
I think it’s a debate in between, as a professional, a camera IS an investment. But when you submit to gear addiction, it’s not anymore of the case.
Glad to say that after 3-4 cameras, I’ve found my ‘soulmate’ camera, the RX1, deals with everything at the ‘sweet spot range’, not changing it unless someday the industry goes fancy and offer medium format in NEX body for say, $1600.
But I’m still aiming at A7 for the longer and shorter ranges, pretty steep price for my country’s currency, but with some effort, it’s an investment worth it.
I trust that 24mpx full frame sensor for obvious reasons, it’s RX1 with interchangeable lens!
If you camera still works why is it goodbye to your investment. Just keep shooting with it!
I am shooting with a A700 and an A850 I shoot 1000-1500 shots a week. I have sent both in for service due to major use and Sony’s service center I must say has been awesome!. For example I busted the hot shoe on my A700, sent it in and they noticed the shutter was at the end of it’s life and changed that also for almost nothing in cost, same on my A850, it went in for one problem and came back with another item changed that they noticed was close to the end of it’s life.
I think these two new cameras are going to really improve their brand as serious camera builders and yes I would like to see an all out pro A mount also soon!
C’mon Sony!
You liked the Sony service center? You must not be in USA. Here they use Precision Camera to handle their warranty repairs, and I’ve found them to be terrible. Not only do they delay, sometimes for up to two months, to fix your gear, but they don’t know how to package it for shipment, and now I’ve had two lenses damaged in return shipping from them. In my mind, they are a glaring weakness in Sony for the US market, and Sony should really look elsewhere for their contract work.
I had a great experience with the US service center. The work to the camera was done fast and well. I did not send any lenses with the body, but I don’t recall their being any issues with the packaging.
Yes Sony had Precision do some work…same result as you. Sony was farming some things out at some pt.
for the last two repairs Sony out of Texas did the work with no issues.
They used to use Precision Camera for their extended warranty work (well, the third party provided did, that is). When they first took over Minolta’s camera line they also used Precision until they were able to get up to speed. Now most of the repairs are done at Laredo. I have to say that for the most part, Laredo does good work. And Precision has moved their repair facility to Texas as well.
Over here in Germany I can say only the best about Sony service facilities (Geissler at Reutlingen)!
Three days including shipping to them and back for repairing a heavily used A55 (around 120.000 pictures taken) on warranty and adjusting some back focusing issues with the 1.4/50!
And at the same time (this spring) two colleagues waited around three weeks to get their 5D Mk II getting repaired (also at Geissler, delayed due to missing spare parts…)
The only problem of Sony in Germany is their marketing and lack of “image”…
I had a problem with my a57’s EVF. I had it serviced at the Sony Texas repair center. At first I thought the repair costs would be too much to justify keeping the a57 working. Even thought about buying a used a57 even though I have an a77. They did the work for a flat rate of $108. I was very satisfied with them. They sent me an email after the tech evaluated what repairs would be needed. So after replacing a part to fix the EVF they noticed other problems and fixed them without other costs. They replaced the mirror, replaced the eyepiece rubber that I had lost and thumb grip rubber as well. The shipping packing of the camera body was excellent. Now that little a57 can be my companion on my hikes.
nex might be “amatuer cameras” (whatever that means) but the pros using it doesn’t seem to mind. really fed up with the amatear/pro categorizing. what does it mean really? differen pros has different needs and different tastes, as does amateurs. I’ve seen amatears with 1Dx and pros with the GF1.
They already said NEX name is dead din’t they?
“They already said NEX name is dead din’t they?”
Doesn’t meant there wont be new APS-C E-mount cameras.
Im sure as long as 35mm sensors arnt dirt cheap.. there will be a market for an APS-C alternative.
yeah – I’ve been asked by a D800 owner what eye (left or right) he should use to look thru the eye finder. He bought the D800 for taking pictures of his new born child…
And at concerts (both classical and rock/jazz) I prefer my Alphas much to our D3s – there is something to see in the eyefinder though there is noise but on the D3s sometimes it’s dark and a second later it’s bright as hell…
uff… i’d take Leica to a classical or jazz concert not a loud dslr
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=370etpEmh5o
Ethan, I’ve shot few concerts with M6 – oh, and with lens on it 😉
The NEX-7 and that A7 are some of the finest digital cameras ever built, lightweight and powerfull! Now there’s a successor and you have to complain?
All Sony lenses are still working, no matter what kind of tech is inside the camera or what kind of body you have. You can have a E-mount DSLR styled body already (A3000) and there is more to come. All A-Mount lenses can be used on whatever kind of Sony camera you want. DSLR, DSLT, E-Mount, E-Mount FF, future Mirrorless etc pp. Nobody cares if they “ditch” old tech next year as long as the new tech will give better results and will still be compatible.
Your claim is very strange. Many here and on other forums are claiming Sony is not quick enough with the Nex 7 successor. Sony started the Nex 7 in december 2011, and may come (when the rumor is right) in january/februari 2014 with the successor, your 6 month are 26 month in reality…
And in those 2 years technology has advanged a bit you know, like better sensors, faster processors, better AF etc…. All things that can’t be fixed in FW.
But when you still like your camera stay with it as long as you like it! (I still use my A700 and Nex 5, not thinking about buying a new camera at the moment)
You say they’re horrible to hold with bigger lenses. You’re wrong. They’re perfect with bigger lenses up to whatever size limited by your body strength. What worries me is the mount integrity.
Don’t be foolish. the Sony a7 feels like holding onto a bag of legos. the om-d also feels like a bag of legos. Close you eyes and hold those cameras, they are not a d3 or 1ds. those pro cameras are made that size and with those grips for a reason. To balance well and hold well with large lenses. Unless you got lego hands or a metal claw for a hand, that sony a7 isn’t going to be as comfortable as a proper dslr with bigger lenses. Try to have some objectivity here instead of subjectivity, even if you are madly in love with the Sony a7r. I dare you to find a 300mm 2.8 lens and with an adapter to the A7 and stick that lens on the a7 and walk around that in your hand for an hour and come back and tell me how great it feels. Do that for a day and come back with an “objective” opinion. I suggest you buy some heat rub for your hands after, you’re going to need it.
I hold a D800 alot lately. honestly I don’t think I like to hold it at all. If the em1 or the a7 feels like lego to you then those giant DSLR feels like a big stone with random shapes to me. Most of my shots doesn’t require a 300mm lens. But if I’m holding a 300mm lens I’ll be holding the lens not the camera body
Still doesn’t change the fact that the A7 holds and feels like crap in the hands. I can say the same thing you said about a camera made of blunt glass. a pillow is always going to feel better than rocks in yor hand, no matter how you slice, dice or massage the facts.
“Still doesn’t change the fact that the A7 holds and feels like crap in the hands.”
Very objective! And nice analogy with the pillow and rocks, certainly works great in this case.
I use Alphas (started with a 55!) together with the 2.8/70…200 from Sigma. It’s a pleasure to use even with the very small A55 as you could use your left hand to support the lens and at the same time to change both focus and zoom! And very quick change between horizontally and vertically position of the body with only a slight shift of hands…
Tried the same with the A77/99 AND vertical grip -> no chance to do that! (w/o vertical: no problem with both!)
With our D3s: no chance at all!
BTW: compare the size of e.g. the A55 or the NEX6/7 to some old but really pro cameras like the Nikon F2 or Canon F1!
Why don’t you just buy a freaking CaNikon pro camera and stop spreading hate here then, sheeesh…
Folks like you are the reason why Sony will fail like Minolta and when that happens someday, remember how you supported Sony’s ineffective strategy blindly and know that it was because of fans like you went on supporting a misguided Sony strategy. Ultimately, you are doing yourself no favors. Did you also believe in the Olympus 43 camera system as well? did you get angry when someone suggested back then that it may not be such a great idea? I don;t think Sony has your best interest at heat and take it from me, you don’t seem to have your best interest either. Why be so loyal to a company that’s not loyal to you or anyone else for that matter?
You are taking it too seriously. He is obviously trolling, there isn’t a single argument of his that can stand on its own.
@Datsun, spoken as if you are someone who has never used a Sony and can’t afford the Nex7 let alone the A7 or A7r. Don’t be a jealous hater LOL.
Now now, you’re getting inconsistent here, I would like to see you walking with a 1D-X or D4 with the 300 f/2.8 for an hour and tell me how it feels like.
A 70-200 f/2.8 would be a fairer comparison 😛
Maybe its your hands that are the problem and not the cameras… everyone else seems to be doing ok, and I personally have shot all day with a giant lens. No problems. I prefer it to holding my A900 all day
It’s a matter of taste, isn’t it. When I walk around with my 300f2.8 attached to my NEX6 I normally hold the lens and not the camera body btw.
With all due respect, this is what the inflexible and narrow-minded photographers said when the 35mm format was introduced. Same song, different era.
Meanwhile, the FF NEX cameras represent an expansion of the NEX line and a celebration of the small form factor (not an abandoning) You will find a refocusing of SLR form-factor – as it really isn’t best for all kinds of photography. I feel a little sad for you, clinging to an already outdated view on photographic tools.
PS. If anyone is simply sitting on their haunches, regurgitating old tech… it is Canon. Search your soul. You know this is true.
Not abandoning? What do you call it when Sony goes from dslr to dslT? A progressive direction? Haha. So if you were to have bought a sony dslr and you love the OVF, you would then truly love going to an EVF? Try telling that to ppl who like to use a OVF to now having no choice but an EVF if they want to upgrade their camera. Try telling that to the folks who bought a sony flash with a minolta hostshoe, cause the new “upgraded” hotshoe will make the minota shoe useless. Oh wait, you could buy a Sony adapter, for a fee of course. I guess that’s NOT abandoning customers either…that would be called ” a price to pay for tech improvement” eh? Do you like the RX1? Too bad if you bought it, they just made an interchangeable lens FF NEX. the same thing only with interchangeable lens mount. Ask all the folks who bought a Sony flash with minolta shoe how they feel? Guess what, every single flash I bought for Canon or Nikon or Pentax can actually mount on the shoe. But that’s the price ppl should pay for buying sony , right? This is the main reason when I go out and see what ppl use, Sony cameras are not even 1 out of 40 cameras I see. and considering Sony’s position in the camera world, it’s safe to say I’m not far from the truth. and if you like Sony, I suggest you get on board, because if they keep doing what they are doing, someday you won’t even have a Sony camera to upgrade to, let alone what they’ve changed again and again.
I hate to break it to you but EVFs will be what most cameras are sold with in the not so distant future. As on sensor AF and EVF quality improves, most cameras will incorporate this tech as a cost savings feature. I’m sure there will be some ‘premium’ OVF models sold at a higher price for the nostalgic old farts.
Hate to break it to you too but EVF’s ARE never going to be OVF’s. Unless you invent a EVF with no electonic pixels, doesn’t drain batteries, doesn’t have lag or refresh problems, doesn’t have dead pixels, doesn’t have jello effects, then it’s not ever going to replace OVF’s. also EVF’s aren;t as new as you think they are. EVF’s are just small lcd displays but given a new name. Would you call a tiny TV an EVF too?
Datsun, I can see how some ppl would hate EVFs, but have you even tried the new OMD-EM1 EVF or the A99 EVF? Many people seem to like it and although it does have some flaws compared to the OVF (sorry, the pixels is so small in those tiny screens that you wont be able to see them as easily as before), there are many pros in it as well.
Oh and I forgot to add that is has the same view coverage area as OVF Full Frame cameras, and the resolution is high enough that the pixels is not as noticeable as previous EVF attempts.
An OVF really is a bad thing: it shows things like our eyes see them but not the sensor of the camera! Especially our eyes can adapt to much higher contrast ratios than any sensor ever will be able to.
Ok, at the moment EVFs are inferior to the sensors but I thinks it’s better to get the impression (in the EVF) the picture won’t be really good (and in reality it will be better than your expectations) than the “normal” way: it looks good in the OVF but it has much to high contrasts in reality…
Next or over next generation of EVFs will show you exactly what is in your RAW file – and NOT what your eye and brain thinks to see!
PS: I’m not a newbie or tech freak – my first camera was a Zeiss Ikon 120 box type and the second an Exakta Varex SLR followed by Canons and Nikons (SLRs and DSLRs) and now Sony SLTs
EVF is better than OVF for so many reasons. Is this a fact, no… it is my opinion. But, look, there are two well established companies making OVF DSLRs. Must all companies be making the same basic camera? I applaud Sony for doing the brave thing and being different.
I think the a7 / NEX form factor is the future. Technology has replaced the need for film, and now it is replacing the need for a mirror box. My a7 focuses super fast, is small and light, and the EVF is beautiful.
Actually Sony supports all old Minolta AF screw driven lenses on all A mount cameras (from A33 to A99), where for Canon entry level bodies you need new lenses with built in AF motor. On E mount, only difference is that mirrorles camera worked for Sony, where Canon’s EOS-M failed
I have had Minolta equipment since I was 16, and now at 46 I enjoy the same A-Mount, except with better glass in the Zeiss Primes and 70-400 G, Full frame digital sensors in both my a900 and a99, one of the best OVFs and EVFs on the market. Sony is now moving towards weather sealing their lenses, expanding their Zeiss designed lens line, etc. And I for one do not believe Sony releasing an OVF in a future Pro FF A-Mount is out of the question. Yes, they need to get on board with their flashes, and increase their autofocusing capabilities a bit more, but they haven’t abandoned anything as yet. Changing to an ISO hot shoe will help with flash triggering and compatibility with Pocket Wizard, won’t it? Everything after A-Mount is new and ever evolving. When the wheel was discovered, I am sure it had skeptics also. BTW, I enjoy both the OVF and EVF, but neither one all the time (at least now that I have both) and ask Sony to R&D an OVF/EVF hybrid for their Sony Pro Line of A-Mount, if they go that far.
No offense to, but speaking of regurgitating , you seem to saying the same things that Sony ppl say all the time, how Canon or nikon is doing the same things while sony seems to be reinventing the universe. They are not. You know this and I’ll explain why. first of all take Canon, their cameras still use the eos mount since the 80’s nothing wrong with that. They have usm and quite good glass, and the pros who swear by them can’t all be wrong. Also, since Canons first dslr they are making dslrs, but their dslrs now are better than their previous ones. You can still use your old eos lenses on new bodies. You still have the ovf. you know next year there will be another dslr with improvments, big or small.
Now let’s look at Sony cameras. Tehy made dslrs. you like dslrs? Too bad, they don;t make it anymore. Here’s the dslT with evf, take it or take a hike. You like dslt? You better enjoy it cause they may not make another one. Ok, Sony took the mirrobox out of the camera and gave you no evf, it’s called an NEX. Wow! Was that necessary? to make the camera thinner so you can shove the camera without a lens into your pant pocket? How are you going to handle a 5 pound lens while holding an NEX? Want to try? Now they stick a FF sensor in a camera without mirrors. Is that really new technology? Just because Sony thinks users are better off with a evf and no ovf doesn’t make it any better. Those thigns arent NEW. They are unnecessary gimmicks disguised up to make it seem like it’s new tech. It IS NOT. It’s a digital camera that has the ovf taken out, hence ” mirrorless”. that is not new. thus, putting in a FF sensor is also, NOT NEW. Your sony camera, you lift it up, you point, you AF, you push the release, you shoot a picture. You do the SAME thing with any other camera from any other brand. It’s not new my friend. Unless Sony has some new alien technology where you can shoot a photo without a sensor or lens, it’s the SAME OLD camera taking a picture device. this ” Sony improves things with new tech while others vomit up the same thing” babble is BS and you know it.
While I cannot address your hyperbole and possible personality issues. I will address a few of the points that you (try to) make. Everything you say boils down to “I can’t like new things. Give me more old things, or I will complain.”
1. You like EVF? You have Canon? No you can have EVF. Things go both ways.
2. Sony started in a “way back” market position and is actually gaining share. Any expectation that they become an immediate #1 market leader is nonsense. Their NEX line and SLT provides differentiation and that differentiation has gained Sony customers. Gain in customers is how successes is measured. Despite your self-annointed logical criticisms, Sony is growing and CaNikon is shrinking. Your pointing to the scoreboard as validation of your opinions is fallacy.
3. You clearly have no concept of using an EVF, nor any ability to internalize the fact that many people prefer them. Good luck critically focusing an 85L with an OVF.
4. It makes absolutely no business sense for Sony to compete in an old, mature, and stagnant market. The DSLR form factor is fine – and will continue with a CaNikon presence, and trying to be that for anyone else (sorry, Pentax) will lead nowhere.
Your idea that the OVF/DSLR form is the only way to run a camera company is complete rubbish, and simply a reflection of your stagnant view on photography gear.
The world is full of people who hate innovations. Some are afraid. Some don’t understand. Others need to feel good about their personal choices. Others are just grumpy and hate when people like what they don’t like.
I’d rather have a beer with someone who can appreciates and celebrate good things in photography when they happen and the diversity of choices that photographers have.
That last sentence was really nicely put.
To reply
1- your comment on it does not address the faults of EVF’s, just the typical balnd subjectivity of ” you like this, i like that” statement.
2-Sony is growing and Canon is shrinking….what stats do you have to back that up? did you call Canon and ask them for numbers and they president gave them to you over the phone. Even if if Canon lost lets say for ex, 3 percent and Sony gained 8 percent it doesn’t mean squat when sonys overall market share is small. A millionaire who loses a thousand dollars is doing alot better than some guy who has lost a hundred bucks from a thousand.
3- Oh, the typical look for a merit of a particular item and pt it against any weaknesses of an opposing item and somehow it will be true. You failed to once again mention the noise, the battery drain, the lag, the refresh problems and the dead pixel problems of EVF’s your “selective” memory is quite amusing to me though. I’ll give you credit for trying..and no, focusing manually with EVF on an 85 is not any better than an optical finder. Ask the pros, but then again, I’m sure you” go run to find “some” sony pros.
4. “It makes absolutely no business sense for Sony to compete in an old, mature, and stagnant market” Excsue me? that ” old market” is basically the pro, enthusiast and every damn soccer mom noob market. You think the big money is made in the rich man leica market or the nerdy angry geek tech market?
Also, please don’t use the same old, “people who have critical opinions is a hater of tech” slogan. You throw the word ” new technology” like you are the judge and decider of that. I assure you what sony has done, ei- make a camera with no mirrors and a camera with a FF sensor in it is NOT new. Far from it.Do you also believe that Canon or Nikon has got any problems with coming up with something like that? Just because one can do something doesn’t mean one should do it. Take a good look at leica. I’m sure they can make the first 50 thousand dollar m camera…the point is, it won’t sell well enough to make an impact. What ppl buy won’t lie to you. Just go and have a look in the real world. your refusal to believe it deosn;t phse me or bother me, it just means there’s not enough ppl to buy such things and in the end you”ll be left holding the sony bag, that’s all. Do i care about that” No, not really.
I applaud Sony for coming out with these. They are doing their best to be innovative and create new niches, and such competition helps everyone.
“With all due respect, this is what the inflexible and narrow-minded photographers said when the 35mm format was introduced. Same song, different era.”
I strongly question that 35mm was looked down upon by the inflexible and narrow-minded. True, 35mm was not used for some decades for things like journalism and formals, and for good reason. The quality of the miniature format films was not what it became by the 80s, and for another reason, the small negative lacked the ability for retouching (post processing) widely used for formals, newspapers, product photography, etc etc
“Sony started in a “way back” market position and is actually gaining share.” I would be interested to hear more about these numbers. What position did Minolta hold in the 70s, for example, what position did Sony hold three years ago, what position does it hold today?
“It makes absolutely no business sense for Sony to compete in an old, mature, and stagnant market.” Sony cannot compete in that run rate market, wish though they might. Between them Nikon and Canon own, what 75% of the interchangeable lens market? What is Sony’s share, 5%? Sony tried to break that market but failed, so now it’s moving sideways and trying to compete by creating new segments- a good thing.
I hope Sony has every success. I just know I was knocked out of my socks at the depreciation when I went to sell a still current model A850 and high quality lenses in the US.
” to make the camera thinner so you can shove the camera without a lens into your pant pocket”
@Datsun, do you understand the concept of a mirrorless camera? It appears not.
Note to self: stop reading the comments section.
Note to Datsun: Nikon has new camera that’s right up your alley, there’s even a Burberry edition 😛
Or the white Canon Kiss…
Typical tiring fan boy tactic – deflect attention away from any facts by insinuating that the other person is a fan of another brand. this creates an illusion of bias and therefore you will not have to address the points made by the other person. Yes, call me a Nikon or Canon user, even though I don’t even own one. I’ve heard that one before. I’ve made points, you’ve made accusations. Big difference.
What is new is that Sony makes a FF camera with a flange distance that allows to add all other brand’s lenses via adapters and adds focus peaking so that it is also easy to use them manually. I find this quite remarkable and unique.
One things is for certain, it’s a relief that nobody is hiring you as director of product development. “Let’s build another DSLR – that’ll work!”
There’s tons of market share data out there for you to see. Japan has the best public numbers. All-in-all mirrorless digital cameras have gained over 20% (as high as 28% depending on the report) market share. It’s the only growing segment. And this is from essentially zero a few years back. Your soccer moms, enthusiasts and an increasing number of artists and professionals are changing. It’s already happening.
For Sony or Oly/Pana, etc. to put their efforts to dethroning CaNikon in the stagnant/shrinking SLR segment is silly. Why would you possibly thing that strategy would work? They have a huge loyal user-base and wonderful ecosystems. (Unlike you, I have nice things to say about many systems). Likewise, CaNikon can (as you say) create an A7/r style product, but they see it as cannibalistic to their cash cows. It’s sensible that they shy away for now.
While you cannot see – the market sees advantages in the ILC form factor. Calling Canon’s CEO isn’t going to get you that data. He’ll just tell you how the 70D is a revolutionary camera (their language, not mine.)
If you cannot admit that the A7 / A7r represents a significant advancement, you lack credibility. A small-form-factor full frame body with 36MP sensor and reliable autofocus with short registration distance does not exist. You can’t point to one. Preorders exceeding estimates 2:1 mean this fills a need in the market (there are 200% the number of ‘idiots’ out there than we would have thought, right?)
Finally, EVF. I apologize for fully undressing your position on this. Unlike you, I will not take a black and white “EVF = BAD or EVF=PARADISE” approach. Your list suggests you’ve never really used an EVF. I’ve shot 10k frames with an 85L in DSLR and about 6-8k using mirrorless. The focus screens on the current Canon DSLRs cannot resolve finer than f/2.8 – meaning for critical focus, you have to guess. You have the option of using LiveView – which is a big EVF (and BAD in your view). Phase detect AF is not as accurate as you’d think (not bad, nor great.) Critical focus for fast lenses is not an area where OVF has an advantage.
1. Lag is inconsequential in real use and current designs remedy this issue (unless you are in VERY dark situations – which render OVF essentially useless as well)
2. Dead pixels have no impact on shooting, unless you are OCD and cannot take it. Your computer monitor does the same thing. You use computer monitors, right?
3. ISO pumping allows you to shoot and critically focus in dark places. I’ve done extensive side-by sides in night street and nature photography. The EVF in actual use is a superior experience – particularly for people like me with poor night vision. ISO pumping causes an unpleasant finder image – but having an image to see is better than seeing nothing but dark.
4. OVF is required for sports. This is a clear advantage of OVF over EVF. EVF for sports sucks.
5. Battery drain is a negative of EVF. In practice – this means you need 1.5-2x the batteries at the ready. The total difference is not terribly big. But if this is how you choose a system, so be it. (given that the typical ILC battery is significantly less $ than SLR-style ones)
6. EVF allows brighter view for stop-down preview – (try f/22 preview on an OVF in overcast light) awesome for macro shooters)
7. In VF zebras, peaking, histogram and level are excellent to have – magnify focus check is also a great function to have.
8. EVF is more convenient for video (unless this is a function you get mad at as well)
8. EVF may have a shorter shelf-life, but appear to last longer than shutters in general. There may be some color shifting over time – which would be a disadvantage. Given that the human eye is easily tricked – neither EVF or OVF are very good at predicting colors that will be captured. Take your pick in this area.
See? A reasonable view of an issue shows that your snap judgments are incomplete, uniformed and unreasonable. Unfortunately, there’s not enough time to thoroughly undress the rest of your points. It boils down to your inability to see any benefit of the Sony strategy – and absolutism is always wrong. (Get the joke?)
Thanks you for putting in the effort to set this guy straight.. It became almost unbearable reading his uninformed & biased tirade against anything NOT dslr..
I still question that Nikon and Canon are stagnant and declining. They control the overwhelming majority of a shrinking market. Sony’s percentage of the sinking market is in single digits at best. Sony would love love love to be in Canon’s or Nikon’s shoes. They can’t, so they try here to create new segments, with new innovations, which is great.
But look at the newspaper ads on the day after Christmas in the US. You won’t see a single ad for a mirrorless camera. You will see lots and lots of ads for Canon and Nikon DSLRs, with two kit lenses, for a half or a third of the price of a high end mirrorless+body.
Mass merchandise retailers know their markets, and won’t waste valuable ad space trying to attract a demographic that won’t come in and buy anything.
Sony is losing money faster than Canon or Nikon. That’s not good, it’s just a fact. They can likely stay in the biz longer than Sony. So I wouldn’t just dismiss them lightly, and despite what the blogs say, the jury really is out on mirrorless.
I have mirrorless cameras, but that doesn’t stop me from realizing manufacturers took a huge step to reduce costs in their cameras and then try to market it as a benefit. Unfortunately, they forgot to lower their prices correspondingly. More for them.
I find your reply ” unbearable and biased” too, ” Aiden”. We have something in common. lol
Ronin- “Nikon and Canon are stagnant and declining.?” that’s just you biased view. A camera takes pics, it isn’t supposed to make you popcorn. They are declining so much that almost everyone holding a camera out there is a canon or nikon. Are you sure you know what “declining” means, Ronin? I’m not so sure you do. lol
@Datsun – hmmmm…you rip into even people that support your POV. Not sure you are here for any reason other to disparage others and what they think. Regardless of what your opinion is, many people do think Sony is doing great and innovative things in the digital imaging world, whether a-mount or e-mount, DSLT or Mirrorless, APSC or FF. I think you are just afraid that CaNikon might try and follow suit and that will create change in your world – something you obviously cannot handle.
@DJP58, how do you got about”assuming” I’m here ripping into ppl? it’s good old Vlad that replied to me,i only replied to their replies. Again, why do so many ppl here throw mud out there at ppl and hope that by saying it, that it will stick? I don;t like your comment either, but do you see me saying that you;re here to “rip” on ppl? It goes without saying what your game is, isn’t it?
Again, the points yo make are about your “preference” but not relevant points. I’m glad you are not working at a hospital or sick people would be given diseases and told that’s it ok as long as it doesn’t kill them. first of all, dead pixels do matter, just like if you had lost an ear you could still hear, but would you like to? It’s purely subjective on your part and whatever you like, obviously the majority of the buying public have disagreed with you.
”
Lag is inconsequential in real use” I’m sure it is for you but you speak only for yourself. Again, it’s subjective. I can go on and on about your points but you;re just going to come back to comment about how YOU like EVF’s better. So what? It still doesn’t change the fact that they HAVE those problems, just because you say it doesn’t matter to you proves nothing.
Here is another one of your false points- Vf provide a brighter view stopped down. You forgot to mention that when you stop it down the noise increases exponentially. But of course, it’s OK to YOU, right? So long as you like it, tolerate it, it means it must be good right? Wrong, your subjectivity has not only clouded you objectivity, you are believe that your subjective preferences to be what the norm is..I can assure you it’s not. An EVF is NOT an OVF, no matter how you paint a rosy picture of it. And let me guess, you must also think of the battery drain evfs cause to be ” inconsequential ” , don’t you? I have a feeling YOU do, for some reason.
With bigger lenses and tripod work a camera should feel great with the battery grip.
Take it off the battery grip, a camera should be street ready – small, efficient and anonymously beautiful. That’s the ideal. Sony may nail it.
Datsun
I agree with a lot of what you are saying.
I own a Canon 10D, a 6MP camera and much of its design is still valid in their EOS line today.
Sony has made a significant shift with the A7/R. How many more can they afford to take?
You sir, are one of the few folks I have read here that actually have what ppl call logic an sense. The reason I’am harsh about Sony is because of their lack or better word, NO direction. Canon and nikon have made cameras in an evolutionary way. Sony, has from almost camera to camera, tried to make revolution. People DON’T want evolution, they want evolution, they want to buy a camera today and know that one year later they can upgrade their camera with something that isn’t 180 degrees different than what they just bought.
Are there any dslrs fans out there? I’m sure there are. Say you bought a Sony dslr, you like it. You’re happy and can’t wait till Sony improves with an upgrade. Sorry, no dslr next year, it’s going to be DSLT, whether you like it or not. No one is going to invest in buying a car from a company that doesn’t even care about what their customers like. The reason why so many ppl buy Canon or Nikon is because of SECURITY, Canon and Nikon, like it or not, has been making great dslrs since 70’s. That’s a long time. a customer can say, “ok, these guys are reliable to invest in, cause chances are, they will make slrs next year,”
However, with Sony, You always get this impression ” If I buy a sony camera, will they make the same camera type I like or will they make something different that I may not like?” the answer? Yes. Sony has been doing this for years and years now. Their head honcho has gone on record that he likes to make new things every six months. Must be nice to have that kind of money where you can afford to buy a different type of camera every six months. But I guess if 99% of the worlds camera consumers can’t keep up….well then, I guess it’s our fault.
correction- ppl dont want revolution, they want evolution.
I want revolution and I doubt I am the only one.
Your old Canon is very much alike your old one. What, your new Nikon might be exactly the same as your antique one! I’m glad Sony innovates, especially if that means they get rid of film rolls, OVF’s, mirrors, mechanical shutters, CF-cards…
Of course you’re entitled to your own opinion or your own brand, but don’t pretend you know what Sony users want.
You only know what you want, and I bet innovation by brands like Sony might very well influence that more than you’d admit.
+3D
PC is revolution, iphone is revolution… ppl do WANT revolution, especially the Early Adapters. IMO, NEX7, A7r are all revolutionary. 10 years from now, we will begin to realize how significant the landscape has changed as the result of their effort.
Typical tiring fan boy tactic – deflect attention away from any facts by insinuating that the other person is a fan of another brand. this creates an illusion of bias and therefore you will not have to address the points made by the other person. Yes, call me a Nikon or Canon user, even though I don’t even own one. I’ve heard that one before. I’ve made points, you’ve made accusations. Big difference.
Oh, and Vlad, you’re not the only one that wants revolution. You’re the only one that thinks you got revolution. do you also think Steve Huff writes unbiased reviews as well? Wanting and “getting” are two different things.
Nobody is deflecting anything. You are not providing facts, are hardly even trying to be objective and all of your “points” are, at best, arguable. You are indeed a troll. Why else would you come to a Sony rumors site to explain how crappy their cameras are, how they don’t have a direction and how those who use and like their cameras are blindly following fans?
I’m not an employee of Sony or any other camera company, and yes you are worked up. Show me a camera or another device made and designed by man that is perfect. I simply disagree with your reasoning on many of the petty complaints that you’ve made.
You just have a difficult time accepting that people disagree with you and it’s mostly because your arguments are petty and or invalid.
I don’t understand why you’re getting so worked up about all this, there are many choices available in the camera market. Just get what you like and move on, no one is forcing you to buy any particular brand. You’re long winded argument is not going to change anyone else’s mind.
Correction: Should be your long winded argument. 🙂
I’m not worked up. And don’t reply if all you got is the ” no one is forcing you to buy” argument. Because I see faults in the Sony system does that mean I’m not allowed to comment? if I bought a Sony does that mean I can only say glowing things about it? Your reply smells awfully fishy to me, like a fanboy or a Sony employee. but do you know what’s the important thing for you to remember here is that I’am not an employee of Sony and I don’t have to worry about saying nice things about Sony to keep some sony desk job. You should try expressing an honest view sometime in your life…it’s free and it won’t cost you a thing.
Somehow I knew you would use the ” he must have serious issues” remark. What’s next, emp66, are you going to use the ” you must live in your moms basement” remark? Please man, I’m waiting for something original from you! don’t keep using the tired old angry slogans you got from others like you, say something original for change! You can do it, I have faith in you! You’re better than the same old tired angry fan boy replies I see all over every site on the web! Show me some originality, man!
Some people are going to buy A7/A7R to use Canon FD or Minolta MD lenses which you cannot on digital FF body other than Sony’s
Canon is so evolutionary…lol
What a bunch of nonsense.
Don’t be so angry and serious ,Vlad. Try to put your Sony camera down and see the world as it is from time to time. It will do you some good. Human beings believe in anything, but it’s funny how human beings have such a hard time in NOT believing in something. I guess that’s why there are ppl and governments who abuse ppl. You can’t have abusers without compliant victims, can you?
That is how you imagine me writing that sentence? Angry and serious? You are taking yourself too seriously. Btw. believing in something is the difficult part.
Also Vlad. Why is it that every time someone has an opinion that’s not popular the phrase” you’re a troll” comes out? Why is that? It’s funny isn’t it? Ok, Hear me out. I make a comment. people like you then get angry and call me a troll. Do you say that to everyone in your life you disagree with? Seems funny that I have never once called you a troll but it seems as if by calling me one, you feel that somehow that vindicates your position and that you alone, is the judge, jury and executioner of all opinions here. It’s as if by being the first one to use the “you’re a troll” speech, that somehow I’am wrong and you are right. Is it then my fault you got angry to my opinion? You Vlad are the one who needs to control your emotions. If you get angry over every little thing you disagree with, then what does that make you? My opinion didn’t make you cross, YOU did that to yourself, and you trying to throw mud at me by accusing me of being a troll is not only tiring and way over done here, it’s quite sleazy.
Believing in something is the difficult part? No it’s not. Anyone can believe in angels and flying beings, it’s looking at things with logic that’s hard to do. Again, you believe in believing but you have a hard time believing in not believing. Belief without logic or facts is just a delusion.
Believing is a bit more than that. I am not surprised you don’t get it. What I actually wonder is do you really think that you are logical or are using facts? Because you clearly haven’t showed that up until now.
Vlad, and about me ” proving facts” or not. listen, I know I can’t prove anything with you, you don’t have to preach to me, sir. I make my opinions, whether you believe me or not is up to you. But for petes sake, don’t try and make yourself believe for one second that I’am trying to convince YOU of anything. No offense Vlad, but you are really not as important to me as you may think you are to me and…. believe me, trying to convince you of anything is the last thing that is on my mind.
Vlad, all you have said is that I haven’t shown facts. By merely saying it, you believe that is true. I can say the same thing about you as well. You say I haven’t shown facts yet not once in your reply have you shown any “facts”. Do you not see the hypocrisy in that?
Why hypocrisy? You say you provide facts. That would generally mean that your facts somehow support your position. This hasn’t happened, you actually already managed to contradict yourself and to show how biased you are (well, nobody is objective). So, no hypocrisy.
If you are referring to you “arguments” and that I haven’t adressed them, then maybe. But they are too easy to take apart.
Vlad, you now say I contradicted myself, but yet I have seen no proof to that. You really don;t know what hypocrisy is, do you? I make an opinion and and the next thing you know folks like you reply with angry slogans and rhetoric and even name calling. Scroll up and read for yourself. i never called you out to begin with, in FACT, I never originally even addressed you. YOU were the one who replied to me, YOU were the one who called me a “troll”. I don’t know why you seem to think MY opinions are about YOU, or have something to do with YOU, or that I care about convincing YOU, or that I some how need to involve YOU in my opinion. Again, no offense, but you are NOT important to me and the fact that you replied to me FIRST and then some with accusations and insults speaks volumes of how I must be important to you. who cares, Vlad? i don;t care about what YOU think and I never addressed you to begin with. So why do you keep caring to reply to me with your knee jerk remarks and name calling when my comments were never towards you to begin with? do you have some stalker mentality whereby anyone who says something not favorable to Sony is somehow speaking to you solely? that’s pretty creepy, Vlad. And believe me, man, my opinions don’t concern YOU.
Vlad, you now say I contradicted myself, but yet I have seen no proof to that. You really don;t know what hypocrisy is, do you? I make an opinion and and the next thing you know folks like you reply with angry slogans and rhetoric and even name calling. Scroll up and read for yourself. i never called you out to begin with, in FACT, I never originally even addressed you. YOU were the one who replied to me, YOU were the one who called me a “troll”. I don’t know why you seem to think MY opinions are about YOU, or have something to do with YOU, or that I care about convincing YOU, or that I some how need to involve YOU in my opinion. Again, no offense, but you are NOT important to me and the fact that you replied to me FIRST and then some with accusations and insults speaks volumes of how I must be important to you. who cares, Vlad? i don;t care about what YOU think and I never addressed you to begin with. So why do you keep caring to reply to me with your knee jerk remarks and name calling when my comments were never towards you to begin with? do you have some stalker mentality whereby anyone who says something not favorable to Sony is somehow speaking to you solely? that’s pretty creepy, Vlad
Vlad, you now say I contradicted myself, but yet I have seen no proof to that. You really don;t know what hypocrisy is, do you? I make an opinion and and the next thing you know folks like you reply with angry slogans and rhetoric and even name calling. Scroll up and read for yourself. i never called you out to begin with, in FACT, I never originally even addressed you. YOU were the one who replied to me, YOU were the one who called me a “troll”. I don’t know why you seem to think MY opinions are about YOU, or have something to do with YOU, or that I care about convincing YOU, or that I some how need to involve YOU in my opinion. Again, no offense, but you are NOT important to me and the fact that you replied to me FIRST and then some with accusations and insults speaks volumes of how I must be important to you
Boy, vlad, you must really think you’re important to reply to me when my original comment wasn’t even addressed to you. You really have some bizzarro stalker mentality to think somehow that my opinion concerns you. My opinions really shouldn’t matter to you, but apparently, they do…cause you replied to my original comment that wasn’t even about you. You must be one of those folks who have a abnormal sense of self importance.
You just explained below that everybody can have an opinion and share it, but now that your original comment wasn’t “meant” for me, I can’t reply to you? Hypocrisy much? This is a comment section. You provided your opinion for everyone here, there is no need to read my replies if you don’t want to.
Where was my rhetoric angry and where did I call you names? I called you a troll, that is not really an insult, at least not in my book. Maybe you should look at your own comments, where you explained how smart you are and how everyone here are blind fanboys who lack objectivity.
As to what is important for me, let me worry about that 🙂 And, no offense taken whatsoever.
Nissan you really need to take your meds every day at the same time. Perhaps you should call you doctor and ask him to increase your Depakote.
Oh, here comes the ” you need to take your meds” reply. I’ve seen that used on many ppl here before. Do you have a better reply than that? it’s old, tiring and not at all funny once you see it for the thousandth time. Do you wish to call me a “troll” as well? Or how about the
” you must be a Canon fan” statement? Do you want me to help you with some of your angry emotional replies? All you’re doing is egging yourself on and giving yourself higher blood pressure.
oh, here comes the “oh, here comes the “xyz”” reply. I’ve seen that used on many ppl here before. Do you have a better reply than that? it’s old, tiring and not at all funny once you see it for the thousandth time.
Hi, “JON” , how are you today? Change identities much? that one’s been done to deaht,. Have you noticed my name is still the same? says alot about you doesn’t it? and you’re response is not original seeing as how you just copied me. try again ” Jon”.
No I don’t think you’re a troll but you have serious issues. Obviously something in you life is bothering you and the only outlet for your anger is to rant on message boards. This ranting is not going to help you. You need to deal with your issues and get whatever help you need.
Somehow I knew you would use the ” he must have serious issues” remark. What’s next, emp66, are you going to use the ” you must live in your moms basement” remark? Please man, I’m waiting for something original from you! don’t keep using the tired old angry slogans you got from others like you, say something original for change! You can do it, I have faith in you! You’re better than the same old tired angry fan boy replies I see all over every site on the web! Show me some originality, man!
Nissan, I’m through facilitating your mental condition and as such this will be my last reply to you today. Have a good evening and I hope you feel better tomorrow.
The good old ” mental problem” and ” have a nice day” reply. You’ve really given up on originality, haven’t you?
You might want to think about this in a different way.
For several years now SONY has been the most inventive of any camera maker. NEX goes back about 3 years now, then came the RX100 and the RX1…, now the A7 and A7r and RX10. Nobody else has made so many interesting things and so fast. They’re experimenting and creating so many things, almost at once, that they just cannot keep up with themselves—and they have different divisions working on different things in parallel.
So…, if one wants a stable, systematic organization of available lenses and accessories, it makes the most sense to stay with Nikon or Canon. They’ve both built themselves amazing empires of quality with hundreds of lenses that do everything anyone could dream of. And they don’t invent much.
SONY are restive, impetuous upstarts, semi-out-of-control and I think it’s impossible for them to rein that in—for now at least. Will they ever say—OK, we’ve got the cameras that we need for the basis of systems for the next decade and slow the pace of invention in favor of refinements? Impossible to know…until they do it.
Clearly it will cost more over time to play with Sony and anyone who wants to enjoy the benefits of their inventions should expect that and not worry nor get pissed off at them when they invent the next new thing that obsoletes some of what they’ve already done…that has cost the customer good money. That’s the price of invention. I have persuaded myself that it’s more interesting to play with Sony…especially since so much of their focus is on smallness…which is very important to me.
I think about the unrecoverable $$$ as “rental” costs and am thankful that at B&H there’s always a buyer for good used equipment.
BTW to Datsun–there are more than a few PROS out here who use NEX 7s; perhaps you should go back to making cars.
Your reply is nothing new. You try to imply sony is making something new in the camera world..they are not. The mirrorless camera has been around for over 50 years. And please to say you know a “few pros” who use sonys. I’m sure we can all find a “few pros” who use Leica m9’s for sports. LOL…probably but not probable.
And please do not mistake Sony for some world powerhouse in cameras. They were nothing before they bought Minoltas camera division. After that what did they do? They used the old Maxxum mount. that’s not something I would rave about. Every seasoned photog knows sony is a mouse in the serious camera biz. And speaking of minolta, how well did that great company do back then? so great they went deep six. so please, don’t try to sell me this picture of how Sony is some great camera company yadda yadda…it may work for some noob but I can assure you I’ve been around longer than most noobs.
…and your anger is eating you alive. I am awed to be in the presence of such omniscience.
Sorry, not original. I have heard that one from folks like emp66 before. Try something more original in your angry replies. I’m not into the same old tired angry fan boy slogans.
What is new is the combination of different things, especially that Sony is the first camera manufacturer that makes a mirrorless FF camera with a flange distance that allows to use all other brand’s lenses via adapters, and by focus peaking even enables us to use all those fantastic manual lenses. I find this quite remarkable and unique. Maybe many of the features as such are not new, but the combination makes it. I agree that Sony has been a bit jumpy with DSLRs, SLTs and all that and also the different e-mount body designs makes me wonder a little, but at least they seem to stick to the e-mount now, phew.
A bit “jumpy” If I was selling you real estate the way Sony handles their camera direction, would you seriously buy things from me? LOL
And I assure you, the fact that you can use old glass on mirrorless cameras was the after thought, not the intention. You won’t make alot of money if you are in the business of making your cameras for other company’s lenses. Canon and nikon stuck to their mounts because of their users. how nice of a user to make a camera that can accept all the old lenses you invested and spend a small fortune in, eh? I guess loyalty to its users didn’t pay off for Canikon, did it? I guess they should have abandoned their slr line and started fresh again, cause we all know who happy those users who have invested thousands in their lenses will be right? I mean, why would Canon or Niko care about their own lenses and their own paying customers when they can make an entirely new camera for Leica, Voigtlander and everyone elses customers, right? Seems like a bad business plan to me. That’s why Sony is going to be at the top, by catering to other customers and pissing their own off, eh?
Leica M Typ 240 was the first FF mirror less camera which allows you to do that, not SONY!
Neither SONY’s intention nor their business plan is my concern, only the result, and I am glad that it turned out as it did with the e-mount and I can use the fantastic CANON FD mount lenses on a brandnew digital camera. Btw FD-mount! That’s CANON, and they totally gave it up, right?
Hexx, you are right, I had not considered Leica – despite I am German – since it is out of my price range. Then I would like to delete the word “new” and add the word “affordable” for the A7 in that respect 🙂
Yes, Dirk, Canon gave up on the old FD mount and gave you eos, usm and arugably the best camera system in the world. now, let’s see. Why do that when they can have you twist and turn your lens to focus while looking at your lcd at some red pixeled dots to focus on a subject? Oh, wait, you need to open up the aperture to get a brighter view, manually focus, then stop the lens down again and then shoot. And you got all that benefit buy buying a Sony AF camera. Gee Dirk, I guess Sony really cares about technology alright. If they cared more about your Fd lens and technology they’d be making the next FD mirrorless with all the good stuff like focus peaking and manual aperture ad stop down aperture with a bulging adapter so your lens can look even more protruded on the camera. Hey, sony must be making tonnes catering to Canons FD users. I can almost see the pros dropping their eos systems to join you in your FD jihad.
Datsun, your cynical/ironical style adds quite some emotions here. Anyway, what I really like, and again – I don’t care about Sony’s plan or intention – is that I, being an amateur, can afford FD lenses with a PRO IQ and use them on today’s digital technology. Of course auto focus and automatic aperture would be better, but I have some nice and fast FD L’s (300, 500, 85f1.2) that I bought used for 1/8th of the price of their EOS-alikes, and the IQ is stunning. I have incredible fun using them on e-mount and have to thank SONY for that.
It’s so glaringly obvious that you have little to no experience with the Sony cameras being discussed that I almost feel the need to help save you from more embarrassment. Almost.
There is no need for stop down focusing if you know what you’re doing and even at small apertures your LCD or EVF will be bright unless you’re trying to shoot black cats in the dark at small apertures or chose to have a dark exposure and have the default “live view effect” turned on.
@ Zohee- “There is no need for stop down focusing if you know what you’re doing and even at small apertures your LCD or EVF will be bright unless you’re trying to shoot black cats in the dark at small apertures or chose to have a dark exposure and have the default “live view effect” turned on.”
What if you more depth of field on a cloudy day? Do you then have to shoot at 1.4? You must love turning up the iso because you must love grain, don’t you? You must be one of those large aperture shooters who shoots everything in 1.4 cause it gives you shallow DOF, ooooohhhh, aaaaaaaaaaaaah, so impressive. Thanks for teaching me how to shoot like most noobs, I didn’t realize that shallow DOF made great pictures. You must teach at art college.
@ dirkW, first of all, it’s not my fault ppl get all stressed out because they disagree with my comments, it’s so obvious these folks take exception to ANY criticism of Sony, which make their comments nothing more than biased fan boy gas to me. Vlad over there seems to think that what comes out of his mouth is automatically true, and as long as he says it, then it must be true. Well, i live in a world of objectivity, and from what i see ppl buying, I think it’s safe to say Iam not far from the truth. Just go to any camera store. Count how many Sony cameras there are compared to the big brands. Sony cameras and mirrorless cameras the dealers will tell just dont “move” off the shelves fast..they sit there. There is a reason for this. i didn’t force ppl not to buy them, so if logic follows, it must be something Sony is doing. In fact it is everything Sony is doing. By the time Sony settles down, if they even do, they will have a trail of abandoned and frustrated users, much like minolta did. Ask the old minolta users, they’ve all gone and they haven’t been back since, Sony or no Sony.
If you use the big mouth method in an attempt to counter arguments, it still helps to read properly first.
My stop down focusing comment was in the context of manual focusing with legacy glass, specifically to nail focus with large aperture lenses. Not in general since you can focus at any aperture fine, also small ones for landscapes, without dimming like you’ll experience with Nikon OVF.
You’d know that too if you came prepared for this discussion, rather than kicking, yelling and assuming around, methods that still appeared effective in primary school.
not sure how sony has been innovative, the EVIL concept has been known for years and there have been some DiY initiatives long before first NEX. sony has good technology, their problem is to glue them together and offer them with lenses that would wrap it up in really good package.
Fuji on the other hand brought true innovation not just by being brave and drop standard Bayer CFA but also providing hybrid VF.
“Instead of making new variations of the same old camera over and over..why doesn’t Sony just make a damn camera and keep improving on it? ”
Wow…contradict yourself much? I hope English is not your first language.
If you don’t get it you don’t get it. Why so arrogant and angry with your reply? Funny how someone has an opinion about Sonys faults and every fan boy gets so worked up. Gee, do you ever wonder why every single site on the web is infested with people just like yourself? Ever wonder why when you go to youtube and sites like that there are nothing but angry fan boys yelling at one another and everyone else? You really should think about it, after all, you’re part of that world.
Now, that is hypocrisy.
Yawn. If you say so Vlad…cause you said so. Whatever you say is law and the gospel truth cause you said so.
Its funny how you are getting so worked up when you get called a Troll.
But as soon as someone says something positive about Sony you call them a Fanboy.
Well played..
It’s funny how you have no point but to be all worked up like an angry fan boy. For you to reply with no point except that point proves it.
You’re not into the whole self-awareness thing.
bloody hell, what’s going on here? and i thought that only old ladies on the local flowers and foods market would be able to produce so much nonsense over something really small and irrelevant to the most of the population 🙂
I’m curious – with that thought process why are you even bothering with this forum?
Here’s my question to you. If everyone is only allowed to have the same thought process as you then why don’t you jut name this site the “kev forum”? Why would you come on this site to hear the same old tired talk that you can clearly do by talking to yourself in a mirror?
People always say” no one’s forcing you to like or buy the product”. But in the same vain I’m not forcing any of you people here to like my opinion either. Why would you go to this site to hear the exact same opinion as you have yourself? I don’t come here to look for ppl to have the same opinion of me, and if they don’t then start calling them names and attacking them like Mr. Vlad over there. I say the same to those ppl, If you don;t like my opinion of Sony, than don’t come here as well. Sounds pretty arrogant to say that , isn’t it? Well, where have I heard that remark before? Hmmmm..
Attacking you and calling you names? I just said you are a troll.
Now that your pretended objectivity and facts went out of the window, your rant has become merely an opinion, because it is easy to hide behind it, eh?
Thanks for clearing that up, Mr. Vlad! It’s good to know you weren’t insulting me and calling me names, I thought for one second there that a “troll” was a bad thing. I guess a troll isn’t a bad thing and you were complimenting me when you called me that. So the next time someone calls me a troll I’ll say thank you and take that as a compliment! So I guess I has you all figure out wrong! You weren’t calling me names, you were in praising me with such flattery! Thanks Vlad, with praise like those from you, who needs insults, right?
And by the way, you once again make claims of me ” pretending objectivity and facts went out of the window, your rant has become merely an opinion, because it is easy to hide behind it, eh?”
It’s good to know that because you make those claims, it automatically means it’s true, but when I have an opinion, then I’m “pretending” or a “troll” or blah, blah. Vlad, can you please be more hypocritical and two faced? There’s no need to be shy Vlad and you have flattered me more than enough with your “praise” by calling me a troll. would you like to call me something else and make more claims? It’s true cause you said them , right?
Actually SLRs are horrible to hold. People just got used to it because it was the only option. Just because we’ve done it for decades doesn’t mean it’s the best way to so something. How long have people been okay with their computer crashing and having to reboot? Does that make it the better? Or how about having to wait a week (or at best several hours) to see if your picture came out and whether or not you have to reshoot, rather than fractions of a second? Is that better too?
People who spout that pros must use a certain tool certainly haven’t made it to the pro level themselves. Your tools are just a brush, a pro knows how to use whatever brush they like to produce beautiful art.
That’s bs and you know it. There isn’t a damn grip on any of those mirrorless cameras that even a baby would feel comfortable holding. You can preach to the church members all you want, but you won’t get any new recruits. Speaking of brushes, why is it that when I say that a smooth brush handle feels better there will always be someone like you that thinks a brush with chips and slivers feels better? Why is that? Are you a “contrarian” for the sake of being one. also, your pc remark is way way off the mark.
I mean, what on earth does a pc crashing and rebooting have to do with a comfortable grip? so you think that after decades of making a camera grip for the human hand, that somehow it’s better to fix what aint broken for the sake of making something new? Gee, has the human hand changed at all in the last thousand years? If we go by your logic, than you should expect to be sitting on some bumpy and thorny toilet seats. would you advocate that we change change car tires to rectangles just because the circle is old and tiring? Maybe we should swim across the river because crossing the bridge is old and tiring.
Here we go then.
“Sony nex apsc or FF is an amateur line.”
> What does that mean exactly? And what is the problem with that?
“the reason why Sony has not introduced many lenses for them, because they are horrible to hold with bigger lenses, which eventually is what most noobs, enthusiasts get.”
> Fact? Fiction?
“if sony wants to be taken semi seriously in the still market they need to make a dlr of some sort”
> Fact? Assumption? Why? Is there some research saying that people prefer DSLRs? I’d say Sony only need to make a camera that sells. Oh wait, they did that.
“They have already ditched the dslr, then made the dslt and chances are they may have ditched that as well. I think Sony is running out of things to abandon or make proprietary.”
> In terms of usage, the only two differences between a DSLR and a DSLT are the viewfinder and the hotshoe. That’s it. When they ditch the SLT, there won’t be any. Where is the problem here? As to proprietary, what do you mean? Every brand out there is entirely proprietary in every possible aspect.
“this would give their users some stability and dependability, right?”
> I have no problem with either, I knew what I was getting into. Yes, Sony’s system, as a whole, doesn’t provide enough stability and dependability for a specific part of their users, that I could agree on, but that is also not valid for any buyer. And it is also the only system which provides certain packages. Trade-offs.
“the Sony a7 feels like holding onto a bag of legos. the om-d also feels like a bag of legos. Close you eyes and hold those cameras, they are not a d3 or 1ds.”
> First, that is an entirely subjective opinion, how a grip feels. Second, why are you comparing the A7 to a D3 or 1DS? Sony has an A99 with a proper grip. The A7 is a separate product for those who want a smaller camera. Your comparison to a DLSR with a 300mm is entirely irrelevant.
“that would be called ” a price to pay for tech improvement””
Well, yeah. That is precisely it.
“Do you like the RX1? Too bad if you bought it, they just made an interchangeable lens FF NEX.”
> It would stop working or what? Oh, you just want the industry to never develop anything new, so you don’t get screwed.
“EVF’s ARE never going to be OVF’s.”
> No, they won’t. You do seem to have the opinion that OVFs are better. But that’s not some fact. It is a entirely subjective issue.
“They are unnecessary gimmicks disguised up to make it seem like it’s new tech.”
> An EVF is an unnecessary gimmick? I certainly prefer it to an OVF and there were plenty of times where I couldn’t have used an OVF, so the EVF did wonders.
“your comment on it does not address the faults of EVF’s, just the typical balnd subjectivity of ” you like this, i like that” statement.”
> What about the faults of the OVF? Oh, I guess, it doesn’t have any, right? Objectively speaking?
“Sony ppl say all the time, how Canon or nikon is doing the same things while sony seems to be reinventing the universe.”
> So, you want one more brand to make DSLRs? What’s the point? There is Nikon, Canon and even Pentax. Certainly seems like a better idea to not have more of the same. The market, as a whole, just got more options.
“first of all take Canon, their cameras still use the eos mount since the 80′s nothing wrong with that.”
> You conveniently forgot how they changed their mount and left plenty of unhappy people. They are still here though.
“You still have the ovf. you know next year there will be another dslr with improvments, big or small.”
> Yes, good things to have, provided by two big companies and one small one.
“You like dslt? You better enjoy it cause they may not make another one.”
> They will probably make another DSLR-shaped camera, using a different technology for the AF. What is the problem exactly?
“Ok, Sony took the mirrobox out of the camera and gave you no evf, it’s called an NEX. Wow! Was that necessary?”
> Given that they are apparently leading the global market share in mirror less cameras, I’d say it was.
“How are you going to handle a 5 pound lens while holding an NEX?”
> I can manage a 3 pound lens without much issue. But if it is such a problem, just get the Alpha line. Or a DSLR. You are insisting on that idea of using a NEX or a an A7/r with a big lens. First, it’s not that huge of a problem, second, they are obviously meant for people who would want a smaller and lighter package. You have had and still now have plenty of big cameras. Even from Sony. How is that a problem or misguided to introduce a smaller option?
“I assure you what sony has done, ei- make a camera with no mirrors and a camera with a FF sensor in it is NOT new.”
> It is new. Unless you don’t care about the engineering issues of stuffing a huge sensor in a smaller camera.
“And I assure you, the fact that you can use old glass on mirrorless cameras was the after thought, not the intention.”
> But it’s there and some are buying precisely for that reason.
“Do you say that to everyone in your life you disagree with?”
> Nope, I am saying that to people claiming to be objective and use facts, yet simply provide their own subjective opinion in a smug manner.
“It’s good to know you weren’t insulting me and calling me names, I thought for one second there that a “troll” was a bad thing.”
> It is a bad thing, but it simply means a person who is wilfully stirring up the pot. So, no, I don’t equate it with an insult. Feel free to disagree.
+1 – I think you nailed it. This thread has brightened my day (well, at least gave me a good chuckle). Seems someone (Datsun) is having a bad day and wants others to feel same. In reality, I think he/she just feels threatened by Sony’s revolutionary approach to digital imaging. Slow evolution by all brands leads to slow change (and maybe even stagnation). Revolution by one brand might rock the boat and force other brands into making change more rapidly – to those that fear change, that could be a bad thing. Vive la difference!
+1 to Vlad -100000 to Datsun
And -one trillion to you. As Vlad would say..your opinion is ” subjective “. LOL
Yes Vlad, whatever you say is true just cause you said it. You can make subjective point and then turn around and call other ppls pints subjective too, remember what I said about you being subjective and not objective? You live in that kind of world Vlad, where anything and i mean anything you dont agree with is subjective to you and then you like to turn around and say the same thing to them. Well, I guess you are right, everything is subjective. Everything, including what you call technology is also subjective. Everything you say is subjective. The the long point you just made to me is just that… subjective ,Vlad.
We can only strive for objectivity and try to be less biased, but we will always be subjective. And then there are also logic and common sense. But, as expected, now that I destroyed the majority of your weak points and I asked you some questions (those weren’t rhetorical), you just have nothing to say. As I said, easy.
Anyway, I certainly had fun and the opportunity to practice my english, so I can only thank you for that.
You did not destroy any of my points, You merely called me a troll, then threw more biased subjectivity out there like mud and hoped it would stick. The turht is Vlad, let’s be honest, you know there’s nothing I can say that will convince you of anything..NOTHING. You live in your own subjective world. If I say the sun is high, you’ll say it’s low/ If I say it’s green, you’ll say it’s more like blue. If a say dslr grips are more comfy, you’ll say the om-d grip is better. You know it, I know and frankly, I care less about your subjectivity than Sony’s wishy washy camera direction. Now that’s not to insult you, that’s the truth..but I guess you won’t believe that either right? You believe that you “destroyed” me with your “facts”. LOL. You won’t even agree that taking the mirror out of a camera isn’t even new, how can you believe anything else you claim to be true? LOL
@Datsun
I agree with a lot of your points – although I didn’t read all of them -, Sony does lack direction, you can feel at easy investing on Sony cameras when you never know if you can rely on the as for the system. By systeam I don’t mean the bodies but the lenses! LENSES!
For the past few years Sony has shifted their focus several times. One time you thought that if you bought SLT camera they would support you and then, APS-C A mount users are abondoned. One time it felt like E-mount would finally get more lenses, there was the 50mm f/1.8, then the 35mm f/1.8 and then what? Just extra expensive Zeiss? They make kind of entry-level and enthusiast cameras and then, the lenses with better performances cost much more than the body? Why can’t there be more good lenses for $300~700 like in every other system? And then now the focus has shifted again.
You are right when he talks about no sense of direction from Sony and there is also no sense or reliability. You feel like you may buy a Sony camera and all of sudden you can stay with no new good lenses announcement for years.
But I don’t agree when it comes to defend Canikon – that, if he is defending them as a whole, because, again, I didn’t read all the comments. It’s also true that Canikon has completely abandoned innovation. Both Canon and Nikon could be doing a heck of a mirrorless camera, you don’t always have to sacrifice ergonomics with a mirrorless camera, that’s not a rule. I don’t own one but the GH3 feels pretty good in the hands and I think it can handle larger lenses as well.
As a newcomer, I like what Fuji has been doing. Fuji listen to consumers and you can sense that if you invest in a Fuji camera, you will get the support you expect, that you can invest in the system that Fuji won’t abandon you. Heck, they recently updated the old X100 with new improvements, making it quicker and better! Does Sony even do that? I remember my NEX-5n that I bought because it was the first to have 1080p60 and 1080p24 option in the same camera. But there was several things that an upgrade would make it better. For instance, they had a awesome toughscreen with awful usability, why no touch shutter then? There was almost no interface updade to make a good use of the touchscreen and then, with the NEX-5r, they actually enhanced the usability even with the WiFi thing but they managed to put a resistive and worse touchscreen??? WTF?!
Hey people, nobody has to agree with me, if you feel like the lens ecosystem is fine, good for you, I wish I could feel the same. I already decided that next year I will pick a system and invest heavily in it but I have a feeling that it won’t be Sony. I’m waiting for a roadmap of the lenses and then if it doesn’t come I’ll have to shift to another brand. I’ve been living with one of another E-mount lens and a bunch of legacy lenses but there are just times that I can’t simply rely on legacy lenses. I find it great for videos when I’m using a tripod but if I have to move, those legacy lenses with longer focal length produces very ugly unsteady video. It’s also great for taking pics but if I want to shoot moving objects it becomes just harder and the when I want manual focus from the E-mount lenses they are no good.
I’m not rich so I can buy all the Zeiss, it has to be a better balance in terms of price and quality. What about a portrait focal length?? What about a longer Macro? I find it hard to believe that there are people that insist in saying that there is no problem about having a 4 years old system that lacks so much in terms of lens ecosystem, that this problem doesn’t exist and that although I’m a Sony consumer I’m a hater or something. Is the definition of a hater to want *eff* lenses? If so, then I guess I am. I look up for all brands and all mounts, I have no favorites in the sense that I would overlook flaws or accomplishments. But there is respect, some brands give that to you and unfortunately, I just don’t feel that from Sony.
It’s also sad to think that some poeple will bash my comment with lines like “if you are not happy just go buy other brand then”. It’s a sad way to look at this because in the end all I want is a better system. If I just hated Sony I wouldn’t care buying their products or even more trying to give suggestion to improve them, itmakes no sense. In the end, it’s not that I am a hater but more like some people are fanboys.
I praise Sony for stepping up with a FF mirrorless and tons of innovation taht they bring. I do that more than you in that sense, I think that sometimes Sony’s boldness has some side effects, like the lack of consistency when it comes to a form factor but there is a limit to how much they can shift focus and shifting focus about the system, the lenses, that’s something that I can’t agree with. You don’t simply invest in a body, you invest in a system – and system doesn’t mean the ability to use legacy lenses. You got to support the system you created. I don’t mind Sony changing the form factor once in a while as long as it’s for the best – which doesn’t always comes to be true.
What I actually want from Sony? More focal length selection and better quality primes. Invest in quality! But having a reasonable optics doesn’t have to come at the expense of $1000+! It doesn’t! Give some continuation, release useful firmware updates, just don’t abandon cameras like that. What’s up with the *eff* awful NEX interface? That’s so much crap, it takes so long just to find what you actually want to change just to find out that it’s not actually customizable in the first palce. I want Sony to make consumers feel like they can invest in the SYSTEM, that they are going to listen and deliver the lenses, not just the bodies and a bunch of zoom lenses. You may change the body along the years but you got to have lenses! Lenses HAVE to be the biggest investment in a system, no bodies! No wonder so far – hopping that Sony would release the lenses – I’ve invested more in bodies than lenses.
Well I really hope it won’t only be an update to include PDAF like nex-5R/6 and A7.. If so it would be a bit disappointing.
Admin
Anything you can say about
Z shift focus
Ibis on any future e mount
New technolgy sensors
And of course we anxiously await some a mount news.
+1000
What is Z shift? Only ever seen it mentioned on SAR!
X axis is horizontal
Y axis iis verticle
Z axis is depth…the sensor moves in and out to accomadate different lens mounts, for image stabilization, and if they have the technolgy for auto fucus also.
This technology is rumored to be in a future camera…we do not know if it will be usable for auto focus or macro focus…both of which would be usefull as they would enhance the capability of existing lenses.
I’m intrigued with the Z-Axis shift and really hope it’ll come to fruition. Most likely it’ll be A mount as the sensor wouldn’t need to travel long to mount Nikon and Canon lenses, compared to doing it for E mount, and this feature will be unique to A mount which I think is a welcome addition for A mount users.
Most likely in the upcoming a-e mount hybrid camera.
A Sony rep I spoke to said that IBIS was not possible on the a7r because the sensor had to be precisely placed to capture a full frame image. I would imagine this would rule out z-shift for focusing on manual lenses. Hopefully it does not rule out shifting for switching from a to e flange distance for hybrid mount.
That would not rule out ibis with c sensor nor would it rule out z shift for ff.
Wonder how the A99 works then…
The diameter of the E-mount is quite a bit smaller. Depending on the lenses and remaining margins, that can impose problems when the sensor moves.
If movement were in the x or y axis the tight tolerence would be a factor.
Movement in the z direction however would not be affected.
The issue however is probably mute because sony will probably only include z shift in thier hybrid camera.
Als note…since light DIVERGES from lens to sensor any flange distances greater than the e mount would have effective field of view larger than the clearence of the lens mount.
Amp
There are 2 facters that enable sensor movement on the a99 (a mount ff)
The mount itself is larger….and..the flange distance is greater..since light diverges this makes the field of veiw larger than the lens mount.
Barry, if the sensor is moving along the z-axis for focusing I would expect some x/y shifting from the constant vibration.
It is true that based on what I was told that this does not rule out ibis for the aps-c sensors in e-mount. However if Sony is putting OSS on the e-mount lenses for all the FF models (and it is a feature on aps-c e mount lenses as well), do you expect them to fragment the line further by introducing aps-c only ibis cameras which would generally only benefit non-Sony adapted lenses? I just don’t see it. It’s shame that it couldn’t be done for the FF cameras (then I could see it trickling down the line), but it seems that when Sony designed the e-mount going full frame was not fully planned for. If it was they probably would have given themselves a few more millimeters of of diameter for better corner to corner IQ for easier lens / sensor design and IBIS implementation.
Also, IBIS helps Sony differentiate the a-mount line from a marketing perspective.
Wouldn’t z shift cause a massive focus breathing issue? Or, would the sensor be automatically cropping to keep a consistent focal length.
Focal length is a lens function ..not a sensor or focus issue.
I have no idea what focal breathing is or why it should be an issue.
In order of importance
Improved AF (imroved OSPDAF?) !!!
Better UI (Alpha or RX) !!!
New EVF?
Connectivity (Wifi, GPS?)
Weather sealing
In other words, better AF(OSPDAF?),UI,EVF and Wifi,GPS,WS.
Aberrations… 😉
Fully agree!
I want some A-mount rummors. What about FF sensor in A77 body and couple of new primes like 35/1.8?
you mean cheap primes? I´d love a cheap 28 f2! Or even better a 24mm.
Yes, you got it. I’d like smaller wide primes up to $500-$700, no cheap plastic, quiet drive. FF F2.8 zooms are good but big and heavy.
I wrote about that a couple of days ago 🙂
Admin,
thanks for the great work. Off Topic: Anything new about the new sensor tech in 2015. This is VERY interesting for me. Have you heard something about noise Performance, dynamic range, …?
Can we expect to see first cams with this new sensor tech in 2015?
cibo
Yes, I willw rite about it soon.
Cool!
I think it is a bit behind the original plans (I found a News, that said it would come end of 2013, surely 2014). But when it Comes, it is very welcome.
I would indeed like it to come sooner..
I see this as a possibility of finally having the high resolution camera I want ant am not anxious to do another season of low res photography.
I am also relutant to upgrade before this comes out becauase I know I will want to get rid of all my cmos stuff when it does.
ssm and better build quality equals higher price than that. I don’t mind easy choice build quality. the 85mm 2.8 performs very well, and after getting used to it, light weight is actually nice. another question: full frame a77? what about a99?
I do not think better plastic built costs much more then cheap ugly plastic look of SONY’s easy choise line. They can do it better. SSM do cost more but they can use quiter SAM variant at least. There are third party lenses with utrasonic drive for less then $700.
In 2014
Sony releasing more cameras than lenses
Nikon releasing few cameras and more lenses
Since Nikon and Canon (and Sony) DSLR/DSLT sales are slowing down, it’s probably a prudent move to make more lenses. Unfortunately for many of the manufacturers, most of the people who bought a low end DSLR are perfectly content with their lens collection (proably the kit lens and maybe a telephoto). When the next upgrade cycle hits, they won’t be tied down to their systems as much. This is where innovative products may make a difference and with many minimally invested in their systems, switching brands may not be problematic.
Hmmmmm …… slowly I believe as well that this site should be renamed to E-Mount Rumors, rather.
Wonder, what real news there are about the A-Mount, though – not just “besides” ….
E-mount is Alpha
A-mount is Alpha
Maybe it’s because E-Mount is the future?
well, nex system is a system of changeable bodies, not changeable lenses 🙂
I think it’s going to be called Alpha 7000 . (since NEX name is over , it can’t be called Alpha 7 )
Sony sure jumped the gun on this naming thing. It is inconvenient that ‘Alpha’ and ‘A mount’ share the first letter. You should know immediately what mount and form factor a camera model serves.
“Oh, meet new Alpha A7. Conveniently, we but two ‘A’s’ in the name because the camera lacks an A mount.”
They build this great goodwill in the NEX name (segment leader), and put everything behind the aloha name (a relative donkey in its segment)
Get it together, Sony.
They could always do a 180 and keep the NEX name. They said they are dropping it, but it is only really dropped when the first NEX comes out named something else.
so… what will they name this? and what will they name the A-mount bodies? And how will they avoid confusion? The Nikon naming system is confusing to an outsider already, Canon must be running out of numbers soon (though the “mk” system works nicely in this respect), Sony are mixing A- and e-mount for cameras with much too similar names (A7, A7R, A77, A700) which is worsened by the existence of old alpha-named cameras…
naming confusions aside, will be somewhat interesting to see what they come up with. I still need a camera that would replace my compact and which could be an alternative to my dslr for casual shooting.
Have you looked at the RX100, RX10 and RX1 offering?
With the 18-105 f4 lens on it’s way (crop sensor only), a APS camera in the a7 form would be an ideal event camera. Close to 90% of my professional work is with a 24-105 lens & the added reach of 157 equivalent would be wonderful.
If the focus on such a camera is fast and good in dark situations, I would buy it.
Why not use the RX10 with eq. 28-200/2.8?
It’s actually a 24-200mm f2.8.
A-mount version of A7 and APSC RX with fixed lens (reasonably priced though) would be great!
Even though the a mount lineup still has room for improvement, I would totally be open to the idea of a compact A mount camera. E mount is finally seeing some premium options but I hate the fact that we’re all in the dark as to what lenses are coming around the corner. It makes it near impossible to plan our lens investments.
Personally I don’t mind the idea of placing large lenses on a small body (in the case of a compact A mount body) but once you stick the a mount adapter onto an e mount body, a manageable lens such as the Zeiss 50 1.4 becomes silly IMO.
Hmm, so what’s wrong with using an A7/r with an adapter? It’ll basically be the compact A mount you wanted.
I wonder how will Sony differentiate the 2 mounts now that both are Alpha line. At first I thought Sony will differentiate it by having 2 different body styles, the classic SLR shape will be E mount while the current DSLR shape will be A mount, but then you have the A-3000 which is E-mount :/
Great news! I would love to hear some details even if SR2-3.
There were definitely details posted a couple times a while back before all the rumors about the coming A7 cameras started flooding in. If those past rumors hold true which, I believe we’re SR4 at the time? Then we’re looking at a logical yet sizeable update to the 7. No crazy tech implemented but improvements that would at least make me happy enough to buy it.
Can’t wait to read rumors about a new RX1: is there something Admin?
+1 to this! Hoping an RX1 refresh is on the way.
They may merge the enthusiast(Nex) into the Pro series which leaves us with just Consumer(R) and Pro(Alpha). Also Sony’s plan is to democratize FF and then introduce MF for the actual working pros. To sort out the lens map for this system takes time. That’s my guess anyway.
Can’t wait for a new APC-C mirrorless. If the top-end NEX7 replacement follows the design and features of the A7/A7r I will definitely be selling my a-mount kit…
Admin, I’m guessing the NEX 7 replacement will be APSC?
I’ve grown to really like the design of the A7 but I find the NEX7 to feel more natural in my hands. I suppose they’re supposed to have the same grip, but perhaps something as simple as having that shutter button on the grip towards the front really does wonders for me. I love all the physical controls of the A7 and I like the looks, but to me my fingers feel more mangled and cramped when trying to hold onto it.
I still wonder if the removal of the NEX name also implies an end to the “rangefinder” design. It would at least keep things somewhat more logical within the madness that is Sony’s naming scheme if they just sold cameras of the same general appearance.
Hmm, you have a point regarding the appearance of the camera cause I recently look at Sony TVs and it generally look the same, the only difference between the low-mid-high end TVs are the finishing, the high of course have the premium look to it.
Even their Xperia smartphones are sharing similar look as well. It seems Kaz Hirai is certainly pushing the One Sony philosophy (products having similar appearance falls under this philosophy)
I’ve yet to hold the A7/r (already sold my NEX 7) yet, hopefully the shutter button position wouldn’t be an issue 🙁 I’m being optimistic that it’ll be fine cause old film SLRs have it positioned that way.
I have a NEX 7 and I never had a problem with the shutter on the A7(R). I did keep mistaking the mode dial for the aperture dial.
Actually just bought a slightly used NEX-7 for a great price. Waited for the successor since january this year and don’t want to wait any longer. Plus, I save a couple hundred bucks that way. Will hopefully last some years.
As for the successor – well, I’ll buy the successor to this successor then. An endless game, it seems.
Of course there’s more E mount cameras coming. This really isn’t giving me much hope for A mount.
Yay for a NEX-7 replacement! While the A7/A7r full-frame cameras are exciting, I’m not going to jump in until there are more lens offerings. NEX finally has a general high-end zoom (the 16-70), coupled with the 10-18mm makes the perfect hiking kit. I only hope that fringing on the corners is a bit better than on the NEX-7.
NEX7 successor! grrr!!! this is THE ONE i was waiting for!
but too late, i just bough a NEX6 (great anyway)! and i had to get this camera BEFORE January 2014!
Just hope now for some new great compact E-mount lenses
Confusing..
We need a roadmap splitted up in A/E Mount and FF/APSc!
Should be APSC, with tri navi, same style.
I want to bet there is IBIS.
I’d take that bet against you.
Careful in your bet, IBIS on a NEX is coming at some point.
Ugh…. Tri-Navi. Horses for courses, but I can’t stand it. Mode dial, Exposure compensation dial, front mount AF/MF selector – please – no contextual controls, just a control that is always there, has positive tactile feel, can use in the blind without looking at an LCD. Tri-Navi goes against everything that I believe in with respect to good design. (opinion)
Interesting. Take that just as curiosity, what kind of shooting do you do and why isn’t the info in the EVF enough?
I remember at some point the ultimate uber camera was rumored to be called A1. If true, this hints to a reversed numbering to be used by Sony for the Alpha line: A1, …, A7, …, …, A3000. This puts A7 in the middle of the line and makes room for higher end options. As for the NEX-7 successor, it should be APS-C, I think, and named A9.
Shouldn’t it be named A6? as the A7 is supposedly to be E mount flagship camera?
I do find it confusing as well since from the interview from the guy who designed the camera, he calls the A7/r as E-Mount Flagship camera, so A9 will be reserved for A mount flagship???
Yep, the naming scheme looks strange right now. But, maybe, it was meant the _current_ flagship?
I for one am just thankful that Sony continues to put out new bodies.
My ideal system is a range of advanced bodies and a single f1.8 Zeiss lens perhaps complimented with a slow compact zoom.
Keep up the good work chaps. Thanks for reminding us that lenses are more of a distraction than an aid.
Hopefully this time they will advertise the over heating as a feature… It will sell like hot cakes… 🙂
Datsun how do u have so much time to rant , why don’t just take pics, I love the evf in my a77 and nex, if shoot with a 10 stop nd filter u can still see with the sundown even at 12 stops, I want to see what the the camera sees not my eye, and the mirror doesn’t move so all pics line up, try that with a a850. When u use studio lights outside with no modle lamps there a setting to turn evf all way up. ONCE U GO EVF u WONT GO BACK
Good reading from Roger Cicala, as usual. This time about Otus.
No A7 look alike please for new nex 7.
give me touch screen wifi and a proper price that will be all I want.
A7/A7R are so ugly,and APS-C NEX is just enough for me,although the APS-C CZ lenses are almost as expensive as the FE lenses makes me unpleasant.
NEX 7 will deliver 24mpix phase detect and a revised microlens arrary. Tri navi will be replaced with a dedicated exposure dial, nex 7 form factor will be retained, new hot shoe, wifi and playmemories.
That is all. Only surprise will be the EVF, which will have some new bells and whistles.
..hmmmm where is all this going? we got noisy shutter in A7r and now we’re going to get bells and whistles in the EVF 😛
I wonder why there is no one camera intergrated with flash,touch screen and EVF in these numerous well-classified products.It is said that “they”don’t think the touch screen is a feature which the “PRO”camera should have,however,NEX-7 is no longer the most”PRO”one,hope this time they will add on this
I love Nex 6 and 7 because they DON’T have a touchscreen.
you can choose to turn it on/off,but this touchscreen could be useful to others,and nobody concerned what you DON’T want indeed.
Touch screen – touch to select focus point. now setting focus point is not easy and i am limited to use center focus because of it.
180 flip screen – self taking photo. easy to pick focus point too with touch screen.
so basically a nex 5r with EVF. Please do it.
Not interested unless it shoots lazers and is made out of solid platinum.
“Not interested unless it shoots lasers and is made out of solid platinum.”
That will be the Hassleblad version lol
I shoot weddings with the a99 and CZ glass and did not think that my Nex6 would be pressed into service for a paying job but it has. The last three couples and their families have really liked the pictures created with the motion app of the Nex6. I have tried the subjects both walking towards each other or together. I really like the feature that allows you to fade the multiple images in or out across the image. Some people call Sony’s picture effects and other features gimmicks but I have found them useful. Does anyone know of the motion app would be supported in the A7 and or the RX10?
Actually, I kinda am interested. I mean, for all my crop sensor needs this thing might really fit the bill. I can then save the expensive alpha stuff for my full frame needs. No complaints on the NEX about non fast lenses at these prices. Perfect price for a compact and well designed camera. Oh, and yeah, it’s actually compact.
209 comments! What does that tell you about NEX enthusiasm. Alive and well indeed.
Will the NEX-7 successor have 5-axis IBIS? Will it come with the new video feats like Zebra, audio metering, etc? Will it be weather sealed?
Most importantly, will Sony actually announce a roadmap???
This is going to be evolutionary and not revolutionary.
Bloody obvious changes
– Sensor update. Better ISO + less noise.
– Wifi
– Tilt
– Hybrid PDAF
Possible cool stuff
– sealing
– built in nd.
– dual mem
– gps
Unlikely
– z focus to kill the a7 off.
– IS
Ah, it is this time of the month again, when the Nex-7 successor is announced 😉
I am really curious; I love the 24mm Zeiss and would like to shoot it some more.
And a new RX1? That could be soooo yummy. Just had the chance to play with one for a few days, and fell in love with it. The bokeh might be a little squashed towards the edge of the frame, but the unobtrusiveness, silence and low-light capabilities of the camera make it perfect for taking in street scenes and portraits without disturbing the atmosphere.
If the RX2 has a faster AF in low light, I am sold. If it gets more stamina and an EVF, this might be the last camera I ever buy… OK, maybe I am getting carried away.
There can be no question that Sony is by far the most innovative and daring camera maker, even if the iterative strategies of other manufacturers often result in a better user experience. With the RX1, Sony shows that it knows what perfection looks like.
I guess Sony has to add something really cool to NEX-7 successor to justify its $1200 price if there is FF A7 for $1700
So I guess the Nex7 successor will use the new 24Mp Sensor in K-3.
With On Sensor PDAF + Bionz X + uncompressed digital movie signal output though HDMI.
+ Wifi, NFC, GPS ..etc
Slightly faster AF & slightly improved noise performance.
Yup, that’ll likely be it
I still like to see a camera that’ll support bluetooth such that I can pair a gps-dongle (or smartphone) for geotagging. Nowadays with all the integrated wifi/bluetooth chips that shouldn’t be such a problem and it opens up so many new possibilities
Just hope the NEX7n or 8 successor is exactly the same body form factor so it’ll fit into my Nauticam underwater housing. Since I use the rear LCD for the most part underwater, The newer higher res viewfinder won’t be worth the upgrade, unless the sensor and hybrid focusing has improved drastically. Since rumor says it’ll still be 24MP, my NEX7 will still be more or less the same IQ. In which case, why spend the money to upgrade. I’ll just stick with my NEX7.
What I want are lens!!!! How about a 70-100mm macro or some small 10-14mm primes without sacrificing lens IQ for compactness (like the soft corner 16mm). Love to see a sharp wide angle fit into my tiny 4″ underwater FE dome.
Zeiss lens are too big and expensive (still thankful they’re available though 🙂