Sony A7r and Leica M 240 Shutter Sound Comparison
Sexiness test: Sony A7r with mutliple legacy lenses at Pbase.
First impressions hands on comparing the A7 to the OM-D and 5DmkIII (Fotograf Stockholm)
HIGH ISO – Sony A7, A7r, Leica M and E-M1! (Steve Huff).
A7r is Rated to have the best picture quality of all full Format dslr and is therefore New picture quality reference at German Chip Foto Video magazin.
A7 test at Fotopolis.
A7 test at Itmedia.
Sony A7 test by Mapcamera and Yodobashi.
Sony A7r test by Yodobashi.
Sony Zeiss 35mm test by Yodobashi.
Specs and Preorders in US and Canada:
Dedicated Sony announcement page at Amazon US (Click here).
Sony A7r body at Amazon, Adorama, BHphoto, SonystoreUS. TheCameraStore Canada.
Sony A7 body at Amazon, Adorama, BHphoto, SonystoreUS. TheCameraStore Canada.
Sony A7 with 28-70mm kit lens at Amazon, Adorama, BHphoto, SonystoreUS. TheCameraStore Canada.
Sony RX10 at Amazon, Adorama, BHphoto, SonystoreUS.
Zeiss 24-70mm at Amazon, Adorama, BHphoto, SonystoreUS.
Zeiss 35mm at Amazon, Adorama, BHphoto, SonystoreUS.
Zeiss 55mm at Amazon, Adorama, BHphoto, SonystoreUS.
70-200mm A-mount at Amazon, Adorama, BHphoto, SonystoreUS.
Sony A-Mount to E-Mount Lens Adapter at Amazon, Adorama, BHphoto.
Sony A to E adapter with mirror at Amazon, Adorama, BHphoto.
A7/A7r leather case at Amazon, Adorama, BHphoto, SonystoreUS.
A7/A7r vertical grip at Amazon, BHphoto, SonystoreUS.
Sony W Series Battery Charger at Amazon, BHphoto.
Sony FA-CS1M Off-Camera Shoe at BHphoto.
Semi-Hard LCD Screen Protector for A7-A7r at Amazon, BHphoto.
Specs and Preorders in Europe:
Sony A7r body at Sony DE, UK, FR, IT, ES, NL, BE, CH, AT, SE, FI, NO, PT, WexUK, WexDE.
Sony A7 body at Sony DE, UK, FR, IT, ES, NL, BE, CH, AT, SE, FI, NO, PT, WexUK, WexDE, Amazon UK, Amazon DE, Amazon FR.
Sony A7 with 28-70mm kit Sony DE, UK, FR, IT, ES, NL, BE, CH, AT, SE, FI, NO, PT, WexUK, WexDE, Amazon UK, Amazon DE, Amazon FR.
Sony RX10 at Sony DE, UK, FR, IT, ES, NL, BE, CH, AT, SE, FI, NO, PT, WexUK, WexDE.
Zeiss 35mm at Sony DE, UK, FR, IT, ES, NL, BE, CH, AT, SE, FI, NO, PT,
Zeiss 55mm at Sony DE, UK, FR, IT, ES, NL, BE, CH, AT, SE, FI, NO, PT
Zeiss 24-70mm at Sony DE, UK, FR, IT, ES, NL, BE, SE, PT
Sony G 28-70mm lens at Sony DE, FR, IT, ES, NL, BE, CH, AT, SE, FI, NO.
Asia:
A7r at Digitalrev.
A7 at Digitalrev, Amazon Cina.
A7 with 28-70mm lens at Digitalrev.
86 Responses
If any of you are from Canada, Spoke to a few sony reps today and the told me that the a7 isn’t even in Canada yet 🙁
Both A7 & A7 Kits have not yet arrived in Canada. A7R bodies and 35mm FE lenses are here now, to ship soon.
Nothing at retail yet, but street date shipment isn’t for a few days…
How do you know this? By street date do you mean the date given to retailers of when to expect their first shipments or an specific date set by Sony saying when retailers are allowed to start shipping stuff?
The M had the mic in front of it…?
He puts the mic in front of each one at the end of the video. It’s obvious that the Leica is quieter, but I don’t think anyone can get a real sense of how loud it actually is until they hear it in person(unless they own a Leica M 240 too). Maybe someone could compare it with a more common camera.
I used the a7 without front curtain on next too my nex c3 and it was loads quieter then the nex, not as silent as the a77, more quiet then my a300. it had a sound that didnt travel. everyone is over exaggerating how loud it is.
No A7r in Quebec (Canada), but my 35mm has arrived.
Lucky! Haven’t heard a peep from anyone in the US about the 35FE or A7r shipping and you already have the lens in your hands…
Thanks Andrea for these nice test compilations of the cameras. I know some people might complain again taht they don’t get enough rumors and too much A7 reviews. Don’t listen to them and go on like this please! These people need to learn that they should just read what they like and not complain about too much information available. Cheers!
Steve Huff should have held the cameras in a shooting style (up to his face and supported with both hands) while actuating the shutters. Additionally, the microphone should have been locked onto a stand or pole a couple feet away.
doing the test with the cameras and mic on a tabletop is amateurish.
Too bad the Leica is so overpriced.
Compared to what other digital full format rangefinder camera?
I see it as this:
A Leica is an investment. Cameras and lenses keep their values compared to other electronic stuff thats obsolete and worth nothing after just a few years. It’s a product and a market of it’s own, that’s why pricing can’t be compared to other brands.
Hey, Hans, work for leica much?
and allow me to add, Leica probably doesn’t want to compete with the japanese companies as it’s very competitive, changes all the time and will require lots of resources which Leica doesn’t have.
Also worth noting that if Leica were to lower their price to allow them to compete against the Japanese, they’ll probably have to lose the Made in Germany mark.
Germans are masters when it comes to anything mechanical, but when it comes to electronics, it’ll be the Japanese. And regarding the topic of mechanical and electronics, a good mechanical designed part will last forever hence would make a good investment whereas it’s not the same for electronic products. I guess this is where the dilemma is for Leica M as things are becoming more electronic based, and what would they need to do to prevent falling into it the rapid electronic development cycle.
Why did you change your posting name and continue your argument as though you’re a different person? Crazy like an overpriced leica?
lol, I’m adding to Hans comment, we’re 2 different persons probably from 2 different region. I’ve been using this name in SAR since my first comment in SAR.
oh oh oh Sonymonstert, are you serious? (of course you aren’t, your trolling is too obvious). I’m not working for Leica, don’t own one and will probably never do. I just try to explain you (obviously senseless effort) why Leica is not “overprized”.
classic car comparison:
The Nissan GTR is only half the price of a Porsche 911. They both have similar technical data and similar performance on the road. But one looks rubbish and the other one classy and timeless. One is made in Japan for for generation 18-40 years, the other one is made in Germany for the generation 40+. One isn’t worth 10% after 10 years, the other one can be sold for more than the new price of the Nissan after 20 years.
No, I also don’t work for Porsche and I don’t own one and I don’t wanna convince anyone buying one. But I still wouldn’t say a Porsche is overprized, it’s just made for a different market, though it’s still a car with 4 wheels.
@ Adam
I think a digital Leica only needs a good sensor, which all their last version had (M monochrome, M9, M240). The rest is just some processing power and software, which is both good in the M. Now they even have video and I think all functions that a “normal photographer” wants. I think they will survive a long time, even if they only bring one new model with updated sensor and tech after 5 years.
” Leica doesn’t want to compete with Japanese companies” The thing is not WANT, it’s CAN’T. Leica can’t even make AF or competent electronics. And please don’t say they don’t want to cause they reject modernity yadda yadda… they CAN’T. Leica is a one trick pony and their only trick left is to make lenses with no budget for ppl without budgets. Big deal. Making cost ineffective lenses for rich posers who like to manual focus them to an AF camera that uses red dots. Every pic you can take with a leica anyone else can do the exact same with any other type of camera and lens.
let me aks, do you or have you ever owned any Leica M?
The Leica S has autofocus……
Further I am a long time M user and know many others. None of them is a poser and non of them is rich. They are all photographers who love taking photo’s and don’t like letting a camera do it for you.
Next to the leica I have had a canon DSLR with L glass and a still have nex with some lenses. None of them are close to the leica in terms of output. Not that the others are bad, but they aren’t the same. Let alone the way the camera is used.
I don’t get why many people almost get mad talking about leica and have to name their users.
You obviously have no idea. yes, leica lenses are ‘investments’. leica bodies are not. They deprecate just as anything else that is digital.
I guess you don’t have an idea, M9 was introduced in 2009 and today sells for £3000 on the second hand market – that’s 4 years later!!!
“Have I ever owned a leica”? And if I told you I have, what lame excuse will you have left to defend leica? You think just because you owned a leica means you know some secret leica knowledge no one else knows about? lol. I think ive been using cameras long before you have.
Investment? Why don;t you just buy gold instead? Why bother having buying a camera for an investment? Why not just buy a dummy camera made of gold? That way, you dont have to worry about it breaking or fixing it. lol
Well, I sold my M8 after 2 years of use for only 100 euro less than I paid for. And this wasn’t luck.
Can’t say they are good investments, but they certainly don’t drop as fast in price as other camera’s.
And you were probably the only one dumb enough to buy it off yourself used.
Hans, the fact that the Leicas are the only full format rangefinder cameras is a very weak argument against them being overpriced. If they make them 100 000 USD, will they still be worth it? Same goes for the hand-made assembly part. Are Japanese cameras falling apart? Or Leicas don’t have issues? You are basically paying a lot of money for one single feature, the rangefinder, while losing plenty of others.
By saying that it is simply in a different market and it can’t be compared with other brands, you are negating the whole concept of overpricing. Nice try. Everything can be compared. And a Porsche is also overpriced.
Lastly, most quality lenses out there will keep their value just fine.
Not really, Leica M is designed to work with M glass so Leica is in it’s own class. The sensor design is unique and as far as I’m aware you can’t find one in other consumer product. They’ve spent considerable amount of time and cooperated closely with CMOSIS on the design of this new sensor.
What Leica created with the new M is the first mirrorless full frame camera with live view -> yes, they did it before Sony did.
I’ll wait for more reports about these new Sony cameras but I’m leaning towards the new M (waiting list is still long so I have enough time).
Not really what? We can’t compare it to other cameras? Or it is not overpriced? That something is in it’s own class is the usual weak defence used for any overpriced product.
For the price they are asking, I certainly hope that they have spent some money and time to design a sensor, but I really don’t see what is so special about a filterless sensor with some software correction (I am not an engineer, so I could be entirely wrong here, but that doesn’t really change much my point). In the end, you are taking a picture. And there are plenty of cameras out there, so we can have an idea of how much things cost. While the Leica might be _worth buying_ for some specific reasons, that doesn’t mean it is not _overpriced_.
Btw. Sony created the first mirrorless full frame camera with live view, the RX1 🙂
@ Vlad – “Not really what?” =>sorry, should have quoted what I meant by that, that was meant to be reaction to your response to Hans “Leicas are the only full format rangefinder cameras is a very weak argument ”
– here’s a link which explains a bit more about the uniqueness of the CMOSIS sensor (roughly in the middle of the article): http://brianhirschfeldphotography.com/2013/07/24/guest-post-evolution-is-revolution-leica-m240-review/
Thanks for the link. Let’s agree then it is unique. I still stand by my points though 🙂
@ Vlad -> sure, your points are valid. Might be overpriced for some and for some it’s the only product they can have with digital sensor and range finder focusing, which some find much faster and more precise and still the best manual focusing aid (i’m one of them) 😉
thanks for the link Hexx! I never knew that the Leica M sensor supplied by CMOSIS is that unique. Good for Leica that they found a supplier to supply a sensor specifically for their needs.
Rangefinder is not for everyone, but I used it before and I do see the novelty in using or even owning one. Perhaps within this decade I’ll be able to own a Leica M 🙂
@ Adam – the same here, didn’t have enough cash to splash on digital M so I’ve had M6 for some time to work out what all that Leica myth is about and been slowly investing into different systems during the last 18 months or so. And now I decided to sell off some of them, that’s why I should have (almost) enough money for digital M. That’s the only reason why I’m thinking about it 🙂
Having 6 cameras and 9 lenses means that I have something for different situations. But I have 2 medium format systems, would be happy to own only one and would sell film Leica M6 (keep lenses) and also Fuji X-Pro1 system -> so from 6, down to 3 would be the situation I’d like to be in next year.
I forgot to mention these cameras and most lenses are handmade and each part is quality controlled in germany, not made by robots in asia. Oh and as long as there are long waiting lists for getting their cameras, they can’t really be overpriced 😉
I’ve never had to wait in any line for a leica.
Well that’s probably because your salary at McDonalds doesn’t allow it.
hahaha, you don’t have to if you can’t afford it 😉 But never mind, the A7 or D800 or whatever other brand trolls like you prefer will give you very similar results. You just have to find your system. Sony is obviously not for you, so what are you still doing here?
You see, SonyMaster, you are the troll, as you are daring to extoll the benefits of Sony in a Sony forum, rather than gush over some non-Sony camera. Therefore, you are out of line.
Hand made? Maybe there is some final manual assembly of parts made by nc machines in Portugal. They’re certainly not hand made. That’s a good thing, as a machine can be programmed to give more reliable consistency with much less lead time, and feature more precise manufacturing.
You dont know what you’re talking about. Leica camera, the rangefinder is assembled somewhere else. the sensor is made by someone else. You can bet the electronics and other components are made by someone other than leica. just about the only thing they do is assemble the foreign made parts and glue the leather in and get the prez to sign the document saying its “german made”. do you also believe the panasonic rebadged leicas are also made in germany as well? Even most Germans use Japanese cameras in germany..don’t you find this amusing to say the least?
More than a little obvious.
Steve Huff has the “original real world camera review site?”
He is such an obnoxious “small bag having detachable nozzles for fluid injections, used chiefly for reproductive orifice lavage and for enemas”
I really want to know more about the video capabilities of these cameras. Has anyone done an in-depth test of shooting video w/ A7/A7R? Specifically, are they going to overheat in 5-10 minutes like a lot of NEX cameras?
Not sure about the overheating, but preliminary reports that I gathered points to me that the A7r would be the one to get if video is of concern. 4 video related differences that the A7r seem to do better then the A7 would be better highlight roll off, better higher ISO performance, less or no moire, less or no false colour.
I’m quite surprise with the results regarding the high ISO and no moire as I expected the A7 would be better but this doesn’t seem to be the case.
And regarding the overheat issue, I thought this problem only appeared with the NEX 7 and was solved from the NEX 6 onwards?
The A7/A7R manual specifically warns of overheating, which has me nervous.
Thanks for the other tips though.
Hmm, take this with a grain of salt, but I believe every manual will warn of overheating 🙂
As video is not the primary buying feature for this camera, you’ll probably have to wait a little longer till someone make a review regarding the video quality of the A7/A7r and if it overheats like the NEX 7.
The overheating issue was also on my NEX-5 and a55. I haven’t been following the issue because I stopped shooting video(too lazy to edit, render, upload clips).
Good old Leica shill Steve Fluff. There’s no BS review where he doesn’t rate Leica as being ahead. his “crazy bs comparisons” always make me laugh. Purposely focusing on the wrong areas, different crops, and flat out different exposures to hide and cover up obvious results all to make the camera of his choice seem better than what it is. It won’t be long until he compares the a7 to some leica and have the leica come ahead. LOL. his site has become nothing more than where leica snobs congregate and kiss each others ass. Try making a critical comment there ans see if it gets posted..not likely. Hey Steve Fluff, tell the truth, you’re a shill nd the so called “real world” reviews you make are no more than biased leica sponsored propaganda.
He didn’t even comment this video so how can you come up with this nonsense that he’s a “biased leica sponsored propaganda”. Maybe you can’t handle the shutter noise because you’re a “biased Sony fanboy”?
I follow Steve’s site for some years now and yes he is a bit overenthusiast sometimes (well, he is a typical enthusiast though) but his reviews are just his opinions and most of the times his thoughts are much better than thos “biased” one from different reviewers on other pages like e.g. dpreview. He won’t give a camera any points, numbers or awards. His crazy comparisons are called crazy comparisons because they are crazy comparisons, that’s it. If you prefer to see scientific comparisons between sensors and else, you have plenty of other options.
Oh and Steve is not all about Leica (any more). He likes the latest Sony and Olympus cameras a lot and he says that.
Because I know what he says on that site of his, Steve Fluff fanboy. Do yourself a favor and go back to that site and kiss some leica ass.
If anything, at least according to last few articles, he actually might prefer Sony to Leica – but this ‘shutter sound’ test is ridiculous at best 🙂 yesterday I visited local Leica dealer to ask about the waiting list and so on and played with the new M, to see how it fits and how it compares to my M6 and shutter is indeed improved over M9.
Do you know why there is a waiting list? Because Leica has intention of over making cameras that will sit on the shelves unsold and give the rich users this impression of being not able to sell. This is called fixing the supply to make it appear that there’s demand. Leica does not want more than one unsold camera on their shelves and by making them slower, they can always say there’s a waiting list. Because lets face it, there isnt going to be thousands of ppl waiting at your local department store complaining that there’s no supply like they would for a dslr. If Canon or Nikon did this they would lose most of their customers. Leica doesnt have many customers to lose to begin with. Never believe what the drug pusher tells you when you’re an addict to his drugs.
And this your ‘theory’ is surely based on the insider knowledge is it?
Leica is a small volume company and has been ever since. Recent investments have been made to increase manufacturing capacity.
The long waiting list is for black version, chrome version should be available (at least at my local dealer) just after christmas.
There are always waiting lists for top Canon and Nikon camera too not just for Leica because the same way as M, the top models are low volume items.
Yeah, it’s a “theory”. I see nothing but a huge line ups all around the world waiting for a million leica cameras. Keep telling yourself that if it makes you fell better about buying Leica.
It was a BD post obviously. Also nice tripod to the right.
Hey everyone!
I just received an A7R from a friend who works in the photography sector of Sony UK.
I really do not wish to keep it (I am an analogue head), so I have listed it at a discounted price of £1500 on Gumtree (http://www.gumtree.com/p/for-sale/sony-a7r-body-only-unopened-sealed-directly-from-sony/1039548253) if anyone is interested and based in London.
It is unopened / sealed from the factory!
Drop me a message via that link if you have any questions.
p.s. this is not spam! 🙂
Good luck selling it without the required lenses.
I am sure someone might be happy to find / wait for a lens elsewhere if it means they save £200 off the retail price! 😀
is it stolen?
let me explain my previous question a little bit further:
– so you must have a really good friend and Sony UK who would give you hot new camera for which I can imagine must be quite a few preorders in
– your really good friend doesn’t know that you’re ‘analogue’ shooter (really good friend then)
– surely, if you didn’t like it you’d return it to your friend not to make money on your friend
– if you paid for it and got it as VIP favour from your friend you could return it like any other product purchased in the UK
– if you paid for it you’d have full warranty card and receipt of purchase
– gumtree isn’t really place where people usually sell cameras of this caliber, why not london camera exchange?
– so, let me ask again is it stolen?
Nikon also has this crazy thing called a D610 with a limitless supply of zoom and prime lenses in every imaginable configuration for prices that are reasonable. Crazy, I know.
Yeah, you’re right. I’m looking for a way to mount my Minolta MD specials and Canon lenses on it. Can you help me how I should do that?
I’m sure he can’t explain anything, he only has “opinons”
* opinions
*Onions.
He only has onions for food. That can the cause of this boring and unoriginal trolling attempts. Not enough vitamins. Pity this poor manchild.
Aren’t you glad you can voice an opinion on this site? You try having an opinion that harshly goes against Steve Fluffs promoted toy of the day and see how far you get, let alone even get your comment printed. If you just want arse kissing, then Steve Fluff’s site is where you should stay.
OT possibly: Lenstip completed review of Sigma 24-105/4 recently. Performance seems to be optimized for f/5.6. Even wide open it’s a remarkable lens (or that copy), with some CA. Aberrations are well controlled too. Not like in Otus but look quite good.
Steve Fluff can’t even present a camera without having a Leica some where in the frame. Shill much, Steve Fluff?
Christ man, you are boringly pedantic – why not go set up your own blog for your one-note driveling diatribe!
If you want excitement than go over to fluff’s website and kiss every one elses leica sss there. You obviously must be stevo’s brother.
Any news on A-mount stuff? Especially looking for the info on the rumored 400mm/f4 A-mount lens
I am currently in a customer complaints procedure with Sony UK about the price drop that occurred between pre order time and receiving my camera this week. The price was reduced from 1829 to 1699 which isn’t peanuts. I think it’s outrageous that they did it before the units were delivered. Anyone else been hoodwinked? They suggested returning the camera and re ordering! I am reluctant to do this as it’s such a great machine. The same thing has happened with the original lens prices and the 55mm isn’t due till next year. Ok little rant over. Shame the camera is so good otherwise it would be going straight back! 🙂
Hi,
Have it been reported does A7(r) bought from Japan have menu languages in english as well?
I’m travelling to Japan in january and obviously considering buying A7 from there as it’s one third cheaper than in my home country.
@ile
I went to Yodobashi in Akihabara and asked for an a7r with english menu, the reply was “we have no plans to sell the english menu version”, he said this twice with an angry voice… a nice guy at the Yodobashi Shinjuku store made an effort to scroll through the whole menu for me but couldn’t find an english menu, maybe they have the non domestic version at the Sony store in Ginza, 5% taxfree and english speaking staff.
Worrying thing is there seems to be a european version and a US version also, PAL vs NTSC, 50p vs 60p.
If this is correct, why Sony Why?
I thought the A7/r is a universal camera? Meaning you can shoot video in either PAL or NTSC, though the weird part is it requires the SD card to be formatted to PAL or NTSC, you cant simply just switch from 24p to 25p in the video format menu. I’m not sure why it works this way for Sony while it’s a no issue for Canon cameras
The European version should be able to switch between NTSC and PAL. Sony does this to discourage price gouging exporters and make the cameras available to Japan first.
That was discussed some posts back – it was suggested the initial supply will not be multi-lingual but that the “international model” will be available there in a few months.
Unless something has radically changed, the camera menus will be in Japanese. There will be international models available, but they will be significantly more expensive and you will need to search for them. That has been my experience. Also, the warranty probably won’t be valid outside Japan.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=151171840151 – I posted this on Gumtree earlier, but after the ‘suspicious’ comments I received, I have decided to list this new / opened A7R on my eBay account instead.
Feel free to message me with any questions via there!
http://mirrorlessforums.com/threads/sony-a7-and-mega-rangfinder-lenses-shoot-images.14/
The Admin did not get my approval for using my own pic into his forums.
Here is my blog PIC:
http://cityusam01.blogspot.com/2013/11/sony-a7-with-21mm-28mm-leica-ltm-m.html
http://cityusam01.blogspot.com/2013/11/sony-a7-with-35mm-leica-ltm-m-mount-lens.html
http://cityusam01.blogspot.com/2013/11/sony-a7_14.html
http://cityusam01.blogspot.com/2013/11/sony-a7-with-75mm-leica-ltm-m-mount-lens.html
Thanks for letting me know this! I removed the link to the forum!
thz for your understanding and effort for keeping sony rumors.
I am doing some Minolta MC/MD lens test on Sony A7 in coming weeks
http://cityusam01.blogspot.com/2013/11/minolta-mcmd-lens-with-sony-a7-preview.html
I thought this was a sony forum ,why the hell sony haters come here i dont know!!! and all those people who love your OVERPRICED leicas ,who mostly shoot with the lens set at hyperfocal distance,please leave it to poor sony people!!!