It’s Sunday but the A7-A73 news storm still isn’t over. Here is a roundup of more tests and samples:
1) National Geographic photographer Michale Yamashita posted a set of Landscape pictures on Facebook.
2) DearSusans writes: “I noticed quite a few negative comments about the pricing of the news Zeiss lenses for Sony. I think that’s ridiculous. Have you read Brian Smith’s preview ? Have you seen the pixel peeper 100% enlargement of the eye ? The lens is sharp but what really stunned me is that this doesn’t look like a CMOS image. To me it looks like a CCD. I *know* it’s a CMOS, but it *feels* like a CCD. It is so clean and free of digital artifacts such as demosaicing and noise. I’ve never seen such quality outside an M9. Even the M240 doesn’t have it ! I wrote to Brian about it and he tells me it’s probably the BIONX Z engine. I can’t wait to see this for myself !”
3) AAron: “youtube a73 -> Well this is a Korean photographer reviewing Sony A7/R. I don’t think you should post this since it is in Korean.. but you should note that he was AMAZED by A7R’s detail, almost similar to medium format camera. Also he mentions the new microlens technology vastly improves sharpness in the corner I am not sure you knew about this but Sony implemented new diffraction correction technology (also mentioned in dpreview). He shot some images at f22 at night with 55mm f1.8 and images are still sharp. You can probably post this video that he made with the camera 🙂”
4) Nasim posted an article comparing A7 and A7r on Photographylife.
5) Hands-on video, many new photos – also size compared to nex6, rx1 and omd at Fotopolis.
6) Article with pictures taken with a7 at Dutch press-event at Photofacts.
7) Sony Alpha 7 & 7R: Vollformat-DSLM im Praxis-Test at Chip.de (German)
8) A7-A7r ISO comparison at ZOL.
9) Sony A7/A7R-samples on Flickr.
10) Sony A7 video samples and RX10 video sample by Camerahoarders.
11) Sony A7(R) — Optical Options by Tim Ashley
12) Hands-on report by Photoscala (German).
Support SonyAlphaRumors: After months of FF mirrorless rumor work I would be glad if you can support my work by making your A7-A7r purchase by using these links below. I will earn a small commission and you don’t pay one single penny more! Thanks!
Specs and Preorders in US and Canada (Click on store name to see direct preorder page):
Dedicated Sony announcement page at Amazon US (Click here).
Sony A7r body at Amazon, Adorama, BHphoto, SonystoreUS.
Sony A7 body at Amazon, Adorama, BHphoto, SonystoreUS.
Sony A7 with 28-70mm kit lens at Amazon, Adorama, BHphoto, SonystoreUS.
Sony RX10 at Amazon, Adorama, BHphoto, SonystoreUS.
Zeiss 24-70mm at Amazon, Adorama, BHphoto, SonystoreUS.
Zeiss 35mm at Amazon, Adorama, BHphoto, SonystoreUS.
Zeiss 55mm at Amazon, Adorama, BHphoto, SonystoreUS.
70-200mm A-mount at Amazon, Adorama, BHphoto, SonystoreUS.
Sony A-Mount to E-Mount Lens Adapter at Amazon, Adorama, BHphoto.
Sony A to E adapter with mirror at Amazon, Adorama, BHphoto.
A7/A7r leather case at Amazon, Adorama, BHphoto, SonystoreUS.
A7/A7r vertical grip at Amazon, BHphoto, SonystoreUS.
Sony W Series Battery Charger at Amazon, BHphoto.
Sony FA-CS1M Off-Camera Shoe at BHphoto.
Semi-Hard LCD Screen Protector for A7-A7r at Amazon, BHphoto.
Specs and Preorders in Europe:
Sony A7r body at Sony DE, UK, FR, IT, FI, WexUK, WexDE.
Sony A7 body at Sony DE, UK, FR, IT, FI, FR, WexUK, WexDE.
Sony A7 with 28-70mm kit Sony DE, UK, FR, IT, FI, FR, WexUK, WexDE.
Sony RX10 at Sony DE, WexUK, WexDE.
Zeiss 35mm at Sony DE.
Zeiss 55mm at Sony DE.
111 Responses
Nice focusing on the 7R…
LEICA lenses work very very bad 🙁 damn you sony!!!!!!
I’m neither defending nor criticizing the new camera sensors, but you can understand Sony not caring or optimizing the sensors for Leica MF lenses or any other manufacturers.
I red from a few places that even Leica sensors have a hard time using Leica lenses, so it seems a bit unfair to damn Sony for it.
The ZOL comparison is so unfair. You have to downsize 7R images to match 7, not the other way around.
Both methods are correct as they show same “printing” size
Downscaling or upscaling won’t change noise performance
Isn’t the point of the comparison to see if the A7R can perform as well as the A7 at its best? Upscaled noise and artifacts on a blurry sample are far from the A7’s best.
Have you actually done it? I downscaled my very noisy 110 MP picture for a 36MP printer at 360ppi. The print shows no noise even with loupe.
I think he meant the actual performance when you take the photos won’t change, which I agree, but doesn’t change the fact that upscaling a noisy image only makes it look worse. People pixel-peep at 100%, but 150%.
When and if sony makes a hybred a-e mount camera it should be dslr shape based on an a mount body.
Hopefully this will leave room for IBIS and sensor shift focusing.
The sensor shift could also asist macro and work on manual lenses.
Based on the features not present in the new e mount cameras it seems this is tje best option.
I think anyone that wants a camera to do everything and be universal would not need it to also be pocket size.
I think the sensor shift AF rumor is bs. Sony has been working on making their cameras as mechanically simple as possible (hence the OVF and mirrors being abandoned).
A sensor constantly moving back and forth seems opposed to this. However, if Sony is working on a hybrid mount camera the flange distance will have to change dynamically from 45 to 18mm. It seems a lot more reasonable that the shifting sensor would be used to change the flange distance on a hybrid dslr shaped camera. I’d happily buy a hybrid mount a99.
+1 I would get such DSLR shaped hybrid mount as well, the ability to adapt any lens like an E-mount with the ergonomics that can handle any large lens.
Manual lenses with full electronic capability for Sony A7(r) from Zeiss: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_P_9yvcxYlc
Got worried when he started talking about the Touits, but apparently those would be a new family.
I had to replay the video a couple of times before I realised what he said. Looking forward to seeing what they produce.
I really hope it’ll be a hybrid between their ZF/ZE.2 and ZM lenses.
In particular the characteristics I’m looking for is:
1. Zeiss look (very important or else no point paying for a Zeiss lens)
2. f/1.4
3. ZF/ZE.2 Minimum focusing distance
4. Sharp enough (and probably beyond) for A7r 36mp sensor
5. Around ZM lens size (larger is fine, though the largest it should be is Leica Noctilux size)
6. Price should be around ZM or ZF/ZE.2 lenses.
LOL, you might be asking too much. The current ZA 55/1.8 has been proven to be an exceptional lens. Let’s see if Zeiss can make a 1.4 manual focus version of this.
You mean the FE 55 1.8?
Still early to tell about its performance in my opinion. The omission of an AF motor could mean that a 1.4 version of the lens mentioned while retaining its size is possible.
I guess to narrow it down, top 3 important factor would be Zeiss look, 1.4 and DSLR-like MFD.
Ron’s infinity and mid distance test show it quite well. It’s just as sharp as the Lux 50 ASPH in the center while maintaining similar sharpness at the edges and corners. I don’t think the Canikno 50/1.8 would be this good WO. The only unknown at the moment is the consistency of AF under low light.
I cannot speak for the Canon but the new Nikon 50mm F1.8G delivers fantastic results on my D800 even wide open it is very good .The 28mm & 85mm F1.8g another cheap lens deliver even better results.In fact they would make for an excellent lightweight trio of lenses for a FF mirrorless
http://www.dxomark.com/Lenses/Compare-Camera-Lenses/Compare-lenses/%28lens1%29/435/%28brand%29/Nikkor/%28camera1%29/792/%28lens2%29/823/%28brand2%29/Nikkor/%28camera2%29/792/%28lens3%29/952/%28brand3%29/Nikkor/%28camera3%29/792
These cheap { relatively speaking} trio of lenses even have weather sealing gaskets.
where are the reviews, comments on the RX10?
we’re interested in replacing our Nikon D700s.
lighter is better!
“BIONX Z”
Boink, boink..
(its BIONZ X)
Usually only thing this does is denoising RAW. Similar to what Pentax does. Just better. Tho its a bit different to what everyone else is using.
Output from A7 and A7r doesnt seem too different from Nikon variants of same sensor. Only A7r is a bit sharper due being really AA-less (unlike D800E, which has sorta self-countering AA filter, rather stupid thing, but Nikon needed to save a pennie).
Otherwise, nice cameras. Wonder how much use with legacy lens will be possible. Whats sorta “sure” is that it wont play much nice with Leica M lens..
It may not “play nice” with very wide angle rangefinder lenses. There is nothing to suggest any problems with longer focal lengths.
People can find good Nikon or Canon SLR lenses for wide angle.
Any word yet about A7(r) plus 24-70 kits yet?
regards
I think the 24/70 lens release date at the moment is currently February 2014, so It doesn’t look like there will be an a7r kit for a little while yet unfortunately
I doubt there will ever be a “kit” from Sony for the a7r. Since they’re targeting the high end with this camera, it will probably be solo forever just like the a99. Maybe retailers will offer bundles with minimal discount because there are only Zeiss/G lenses announced right now.
Thnx for all the hard work, Andrea!
+1 Thank you Andrea.
Looks like the 55mm is going to be a great lens. Thanks for a terrific site!
Finally, after sooo many negative comments.
Thanks Andrea!
Those are trolls – just ignore them!
I’ve noticed all the negative comments too, it’s a shame.
Indeed, so many negative comments… from people who have never used the new cameras.
Well, these a7R images are definitely encouraging:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/realityscans/10335004395/sizes/k/in/set-72157636665697086/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/realityscans/10370243724/sizes/k/in/photostream/
Wow! Photographylife mentiones a super wide to come only in 2015!
Happy waiting time!
According to Sony’s roadmap, a wide angle zoom is coming in the middle of 2014.
Still waiting on a super wide prime for a mount.
Something tells me that Tim Ashley will be right 😉 I recommend his other articles, there aren’t many
A sane voice among the sea of parrots. 🙂
Yep, it was his articles that got me thinking about RX1
True, very interesting. The language got a bit difficult a couple times, needed to reread 🙂
but the nex7 has always had problem in corner performance with all avaiable lens …!
Don’t know why … but this is a well known problem of that model!
There is no such thing. NEX-7 might have problem with RF WA, but it has no detrimental effect on the Touit 12 or the Sony 10-18.
Brian Smith is paid by Sony you expect him to give an impartial view of the camera Sony gave him for free?
He actually doesn’t seem to be saying much. I am more surprised at DearSusan’s enthusiasm, based on a couple of crops. Though, I am confident that these cameras will perform great with appropriate lenses.
The day Susan buys a flash extension chord (that day never will come)from Sony, all hell will break loose! LOL.
Not sure what to make from that article, tried to read it a couple of times and I’m still not sure if it was based on actual samples or comparison of manufacturer’s MTF charts -> scratching my head
It’s an invalid arguement. Digital artifacts and demosiacing has nothing to do with the lens. If sharpness is all he needs then he should get himself Sigma.
Amazed by the 55mm and also the 35mm is a super performer
I’ve seen a lot of test with old or third party lenses …
but nobody tested the “Sel 24mm sonnar” and the “Sel 50mm f1.8” on one of these two camera? I’m curious … the dimensions of the 50mm makes me wonder about ..
I’m really tempted … bye bye
Yes, more and more confident these lenses will be great. Not that one should expect anything else with these prices.
LOL, where are all the whiners comparing the 55/1.8 with the cheaply made Canikon 50/1.8?
Firs, small aperture meant crappy lenses, then the comparisons you pointed out, they will be back, don’t worry.
Don’t try to understand… I watched the entire 28 minutes of the youtube in korean… Obviously did not understand a word except “camera” and “seven” but for some reason I can’t fathom, it was very interesting. Over the language barrier, one could see how happy he was with the results.
AT
He was expecting.. those phone camera lens… i would be VERY surprised if sony all of sudden sent me a7
This camera is going to be awesome. I’ve been looking for something that has the same quality as my IPAD camera, but in a smaller size. Man, can’t wait to take blurry pics of my cat.
Try not to cut yourself on all of that edge. It’s sharper than the camera itself.
So let me guess, you’ve been heavily investing on that micro-turd system ever since
you bought yourself OLY EM-5 with your hard-earned money, and just to realize
that Sony just came out big not long after?
Life can be unfair sometimes, but hey, just keep up the hard work and get yourself
this camera.
http://nikonrumors.com/2013/10/20/breaking-new-nikon-full-frame-hybrid-mirrorless-camera-coming-soon.aspx/
This is going to be more and more interesting to see the duel between A7/A7r and latest Nikon’s FM2.
Even though this is not mirrorless type, it is a sign of interesting move.
Yep, if they manage to squeeze D4 into FMx body it will indeed be very interesting combo
For D4 price, I think it’s not a direct competition.
Nope, I don’t believe it’s meant to be. Nikon fans have been asking for digital FM for years and a lot of D700 users don’t see D800 (nor D6x0) as a valid replacement, so maybe this could do it.
The price should be in the range of D610. The overall spec is lower than D4 and comparable to D610. We will see the actual spec soon. Let’s see.
D4 sensor? why not D800E sensor instead 😀
Sounds nice but 16MP? Seriously?
Yes, seriously, photojournalist’s dream 😉
Well, I can understand that it will entice some people.
Why not?
Unless you shoot advertising or work on large-scale printing, 16mp will be fine.
I shoot with D700 and nex5, this combo is perfect for me. Introducing of this digital FM2 makes me hold my decision on A7r due to the number of prime F-mount nikon lenses I have.
So you don’t do any printing? To me, 16MP is not nearly sharp enough for a 13 wide, and I definitely can benefit from a 54MP for my 24 wide printing. You don’t need to print too large to see the benefit. Every time a new tech comes out, we have a different “sweet spot” for a certain sensor size. In the end, we will all shoot with a 50+ MP sooner or later. I would rather it comes sooner.
I understand that the new Nikon will use the same sensor as the D4
For what I can tell it works fine in that body
Any word of a firmware update on the 7r mkII yet?
The negative comments are not about NEW zeiss lenses, they are about ALL zeiss lenses. Unlike alpha mount, nex mount have no cheap alternate to most of the zeiss lenses, and there’s no magic in zeiss. Just compare Touit 32mm to Fuji FX 35mm,it costs $300-$450 more but has less smooth bokeh and slower aperture. CCD feel? what does that have anything to do with lenses?
the 35mm by fuji looks like a bad performae on the border and on the extreme … look at Photozone test!
WHAAAT? My lens and images disagree
test at photozone says that also the sel 30mm f1.8 (not zeiss) has a best resolution in the corners … so far I know photography is generally not a thing about resolution.
My photography (streepher) is not affected at all by the lacking of sharpness in the peripheral zone and my favourite street lens has a bad reputation and is the Sel 16mm … simply I love the renderings.
The 16 is my only AF lens left and I thought there was something special about it’s performance under sunlight…so it’s not just my imagination.
There are plenty of comparison pictures out there, if XF 35 is bad then the Touit 32 is pretty much the same.
Touit 32 is certainly a bad lens for its price.
You mean there is no magic in NEX Zeiss right? Looks like there’s plenty in my 135mm 1.8 and that 50mm 1.4 they just released. I do admit though, the prices are inflated by about 25-30%.
Yes, couldn’t agree more=)
There actually is magic in Zeiss, but mainly in some high-end Contax Zeiss, not Cosina Zeiss.
Can’t say about the Otus yet.
How do you define this magic when it only exists in high-end Contax Zeiss? The consensus is that Zeiss signature (high macro and micro contrast with edgy bokeh) is quite consistent in the Contax Zeiss, carrying a bit over to the Cosina Zeiss. However, modern Zeiss managed to extract more detail, better aberration control and a bit smoother bokeh. Contax has warmer color while Cosina Zeiss has cooler color. The Zeiss 3D is more apparent in some Contax and some Cosina Zeiss. This magic should exist through out the range or otherwise Zeiss would not be this popular.
Definitely agree with you, especially if its Zeiss itself (not Sony Zeiss) lenses. Though in all honesty, I find the Touit lens (the ones that are out now) seem to lack that Zeiss look.
LOL, to me, the Touit is an abomination. Zeiss ventured out of their comfort zone right there with AF mirrorless. After shooting with all of the Sony Zeiss (all the zooms and primes) for a while, I can safely conclude that those are not Zeiss. They’re still very nice and worthy of the Sony Zeiss name.
The A3000 is already on sale:
Sony Alpha A3000 Digital Camera with 18-55mm and 55-210mm Lenses Kit for $498
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1010412-REG/sony_soa3000_alpha_a3000_digital_camera.html
Did anyone else watch the Korean video? I don’t speak Korean, but I did enjoy seeing some of the photos he took and what looked like excitement on his face. The A7r appears to deal moiré very well, I think that may have been something they talked about in the video… Anyone want to translate??
Samples of ISO 10,000; by Indonesian photographer can be seen here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/geekz/10382596613/lightbox/
I would be very interested to see any reviews on the Sony a7 and a7r performance when using the current Nex lenses (in both FF and crop mode)
This would allow us to make some “informed” decisions on whether to order the a7/a7r now with the aim of using our collection of Nex lenses for the time being, or wait until the FF lens we need is available before buying the lens and camera all together
Andrea, any info regarding A5/A5r? 😀
horrible moire…. worse than entry level canon dslrs… sony, WHY???? you almost got me… almost… seems there is no way around the 5d if you wanna film fullframe.
Just watched the difference at various ISO of 7 and 7R at http://2f.zol-img.com.cn/product/121/229/ce5QFiaEjitKM.jpg. The difference seems quite substantial. The A7 loses detail at ISO 100 that the 7R still shows at ISO 1600! Hard to believe – better wait till this is confirmed by other sources.
Somebody did a very bad job with those. Maybe they forgot to focus the A7.
As you say, wait for some professional tests from reputable reviewers.
Wow. Tons of moire in the A7 video sample. Strange considering it’s go the AA filter.
Dear people of the site, someone please talk about this a5, a5r rumor.
I believe the A5, A5R rumor was simply someone on the dpreview forums making up a Sony press release. Got me excited for a bit too, when he mentioned a 36mp APS-C sensor. Alas, just wishful hoping by the poster.
For some reason that doesn’t feel like it would work right. 36mp/APS-C
I’m sure this has been answered already – or possibly just a dumb question – but will older minolta a mount lenses work on the A7/A7r? What about ones with AF? In particular I was thinking something like a Minolta Sony AF 300mm F/4 HS APO G Lens?
Would love if this would work!
Yes, use the LA-EA4, you will have AF and full frame coverage.
why should sony care abot 7 dinosaurs that owns leica lenses.?
of course they should try to get people buying sony/zeiss ones .. that is what any company would do.
So Brave. How do you think the original NEX series became popular when there were just 2 lenses?
i dont understand why sony use low res screen on it 3.0 inch (921k) Tiltable TFT LCD ? on a mega pix camera we want see more details and able to zoom
Any news about the new jpeg engine for NEX series ?
how come we dont have an english version of this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zy_fW8iSH54
Why can’t someone do a test with some EF glass from Canon? The A7R has sent shockwaves through the Canon community, mainly because it’s sensor beats everything that Canon has to offer.
I want to see how the A7R performs with lenses like the 85L, 35L, e.t.c. 🙂
+1
I’m sure the optics will work very well, but really interested to see how the AF speed is affected.
Usually with long focal length lenses there’s no problem, the problem is usually with UWA lenses.
As for AF speed, Metabones already inform that AF speed will be greatly affected with their adapter, but it still works so I guess we can only hope for Metabones to improve the AF speed in the next adapter if they could
If Brian Smith is to believed:
“The LA-EA4 is really fast. It actually seems that a-mount lenses focus even faster on A7R using LA-EA4 than they do on the a99.”
So in theory would it not be possible for a canon/nikon equivalent to be as fast? Whether that is metabones or otherwise could it be feasible?
I’m feeling almost happy seeing that some of my considerations and commets sent before A7/A7r announcement are now the main arguments to evaluate how to use these cameras and our choice.
So, I’m trying to reach and share personal synthesis:
– camera and dedicated lenses as one optimized project is ever the best choice;
– MTFs of Zeiss e-mount prime lenses are showing top performance if compared to analog prime lenses, so they are the best choice, specially for high density sensors;
– a general purpose top camera ready to high image quality with all branded lenses, specifically and critically both retro-focused and short flange is impossible, but A7 seems to be more comfortable with retro focused ones, A7/r better (?) with short distance lens back: best choice seems to be shown;
– mirrorless and short flange distance do not join pocket size, so it seems to be better to have at the end a dslr shaped and sized camera body but without mirror: we do not need any more of it, and faster sequences are favourite without exceeding moving mechanics not useful;
– firmware manipulation of images could (I suspect) be part of the game of electronic complex cameras correting optical critical effects (corners, aberrations, etc..) even producing “untouched” raw files .
Where’s my A9?=)
Why do I feel silly reading all these gushing reviews of the new Sony? Maybe because I have invested in a Sony CZ 135mm, Sony CZ 24-70mm, Sony 55 and 105mm macros, all expensive glass, the CZs in particular. I’m strongly suspecting that I’m going to be left out in the cold with a load of lenses and no Sony 36mpxl A mount camera to use them on. If Sony doesn’t come up with something these lenses are effectively worthless.
I haven’t a clue what DearSusans is talking about when characterising the A7 output as like a CCD and not a CMOS, and being free of digital artefacts like demosaicing and noise. Now quite why there should be an implied lack of demosaicing and noise on a CCD sensor, I’ve no idea. Colour CCD sensors have got the same Bayer colour matrix filter as the vast majority of CMOS sensors and therefore have to go through similar demosaicing algorithms. It may be that the the new BIONZ engine gives improved results, but this is nothing to do with CCD or CMOS differences and, further, would have nothing to do with images being processed from RAW using external converters.
As far as noise is concerned, there was a time when CCD sensors had an advantage over CMOS (largely due to CMOS having a larger portion of the silicon sensor chip’s area “real estate” made over to photodiodes). However, such has been the technical development in CMOS chips in the MFT, APS-C and FF formats, these sensors now outperform CCDs (improved noise management and microlenses etc). Indeed, Leica themselves switched over to CMOS for the 24MP Leica M. It may be that if similar amounts of R&D money had been spent on CCD, then it might still provided better IQ, albeit with major inherent disadvantages in other areas which making it unsuited for some uses (slow readout times, higher power consumption etc.). However, this hasn’t happened, and neither is it likely to. For now, CMOS sensors outperform CCD in these formats, and have done for some years.
Of course, CCD still rules in some areas, like medium format and some scientific uses, as it’s a much simpler technology to scale to large sensor sizes (and the market size might not warrant the considerable investment required for very large CMOS sensors).