Two weeks ago I asked SAR readers what kind of camera Sony should do as next. With an overwhelming 51% (and 4,055 Votes) most of you chose the Full Frame NEX alike mirrorless camera. On second place (30%) we had the sub $2000 A95 FF SLT and on third place the NEX-7n (Full results can be seen here). As I told you a couple of times before Sony is indeed working on a FF NEX-7 alike camera (hope to get some more details soon).
But now we have to talk about the features of such a FF mirrorless camera. I would like to hear from you the exact specs that such a camera should have to be bought by you. In a few days I will read all your comments and start a new poll where SAR readers can vote the single features.
I am going to put here my short wish-list:
Zeiss Ikon alike design and quality material ([shoplink 14898 ebay]You can see them here on eBay[/shoplink])
Body price 2400-2600 Euro
E-mount with native FF E-mount designed lenses.
Built-in EVF
In Body stabilization > I know this is almost impossible to do but hey…it’s a wish-list! I have the right to dream 🙂
24 Megapixel sensor
DNG RAW
Weather sealed body
Shutter and ISO controls like the Fuji X-E1.
P.S: I am out for work now. Don’t worry if your comments will land on the moderation queue. I will allow them all as soon as I am back!
120 Responses
I’d love to see a full-frame version of the Nex5, let’s call it the Nex8: Similar form-factor plus fullframe but only 16MP (more light per pixel).
Yeah, the good old and already traditional NEX-5 form factor would be awesome: As small as possible, up-to-date design without any retro crap, no EVF and no integrated flash (well, Audio-In + Flash-Sync socket would be great, of course). I only disagree with 16MP and would prefer 24MP with Full Frame and why not name it simply NEX-5F?
NEX-5FF then 😀
Deal.
Built-in EVF – I prefer comfortability rather than resolution. I compare the EVF quality between X-E1 and E-M5. I like E-M5’s EVF in terms of comfortability. I can look thru its EVF for a long period of time due to its higher refresh rate.
In-body image stabilization – Even though it’s impossible, I prefer in-body IS so that all of my manual-focus lens will make use of this image stabilization.
The thing is, if they will have to make new lenses to cover the FF sensor, why use the E-mount? Current E-mount lenses would just work in crop mode, so why bother? And not that there are so many or so good E-mount lenses anyway.
So design a new mount with longer flange distance to allow better IQ in the FF corners and make space for IBIS from Oly’s E-M5. A body like the X-E1 would be nice.
If SONY marketing determine that the new camera would also require a new lens lineup, then they simply won’t bother (or won’t move for 3 years).
Requests ought to be limited to what’s realistic. Taking the VG900 (and RX1) and making it into a NEX stills camera form, would already give us a ton of extra lens options.
You think that Sony would release a FF NEX camera without native lenses for it??? They’ve done it with the VG900, but that’s for video. For stills, no way they will do this. “Buy the FF NEX-9 + an adapter and use our FF Alpha lenses with slow AF or manual focus. The package will be big and unbalanced, but hey, you can also use Nikon’s or Canon’s lenses with a different adapter!”. Great strategy.
Of course that if they release a stills camera with a FF sensor and interchangeable lens mount, they will release a new lens lineup for it. And if they have to design that lens lineup, why not use a different mount to make a better product?
The biggest complaint against SONY out there, is that they have good cameras but no lenses (rightly or wrongly).
Imagine, the jeers of contempt from Canon and Nikon users, if they introduced a third new mount with a few new lenses, when they themselves only support one (EF and F mount)!.
SONY must market a full-frame, as a way to increase lens choices to overcome this perception.
Otherwise, why bother, it won’t increase penetration and capture new customers.
I couldn’t agree more. Sony is already having a difficult time designing lenses for the APS-C E-mount. Why push the limit with FF?
I would much rather see a mirrorless mount tailor made for a FF sensor. Regardless if it is compatible or not, the last thing I’m going to do is buy a FF camera and slap on a APS-C lens.
Why ？they have all the basic designs ready… Just check the VG-900
If we can use M mount lens(via adapter) with IBIS in full frame, that would be perfect.
2400 euro! This is your wish? It should be a step up from the NEX-7, so why not 1500 euro?
+1. I want it to be rather simple pocket-able cam for stills with exceptional IQ. RX1 is too expensive for me but I like its form factor very much.
Full Frame ladies = not cheap
BS, technically it is only double sized chip. All other parts can be the same. FF cams are typically more expensive because they have pro features and build. But what I ask for is consumer grade FF. I’d rather invest into HQ lenses then a body which in 2 years is going be considered old.
This is partially true. The larger sensor in a FF DSLR is considerably more expensive (more silicon, less yield) and accounts for approximately $360 of additional cost (Thom Hogan: Sensor Economics August 27, 2012). The remaining costs related to build quality, etc contribute to the increased cost. Either way, there is no way that a mirrorless FF camera will sell for less than the 6D/D600 @ $2100. Personally I would be shocked if the cost is anything less than the RX1 with a high quality kit lens. That being said, it will be a tough sell without an integrated EVF. It will be interesting to see what direction Sony takes when this happens.
i would like an A99 alternative
– 10 FPS
– 30 raw’s buffer in 12 bits, and less for 14bits
– move the EVF to the side like in the Nex and lose the huge hump, that’s an SLR heritage…
-improve EVF quality, they are good, but not good enough yet.
– A better and bigger eyecup, the one on the A77 its very small and side lights ruin all the experience with the EVF
– Allow both horizon level and live histogram in the same mode.
– better, much better battery life (a canon or nikon does the double of shots!)
this is what i remember for now, but i know there is more!
What I do not understand is why there isn’t the option of buying a large eyecup for the a77/a99 *or I guess all SLTs….
All the prosumer video cameras (like the VG900) come with an eyecup that shields the side of your eye furthest from your nose. It’s great for keeping out light, but it does look a little dorky.
I do not understand why the video camera version (VG900) can have that eyecup but the SLT version (a99/a77) cannot. I wouldn’t even mind paying for it….
The problem is that the new eyecups are hard, not soft like a Dynax 7 eyecup, and they protrude not fare enough from the back of the camera.
This is partially true. The larger sensor in a FF DSLR is considerably more expensive (more silicon, less yield) and accounts for approximately $360 of additional cost (Thom Hogan: Sensor Economics August 27, 2012). The remaining costs related to build quality, etc contribute to the increased cost. Either way, there is no way that a mirrorless FF camera will sell for less than the 6D/D600 @ $2100. Personally I would be shocked if the cost is anything less than the RX1 with a high quality kit lens. That being said, it will be a tough sell without an integrated EVF. It will be interesting to see what direction Sony takes when this happens.
Damn, replied to wrong comment…
I hope they already have some prototypes ready for 2013.
If not, we would have to wait 2015 :-(((((
And give me a Zeiss FF lense like 24-120mm/2.8-4.0 😀
I so much agree about this Zeiss lens. It could be even f/2-f/4 and it can be integrated one, as in RX1. That saves the sensor for getting dust and I’m sure they will make the perfect fine tuning. But unlike Rx100, we want to be able to mount filters on it.
I would also prefer OVF or at least hybrid, but I know Sony pass that option.
24MPx is perfect I think to deliver outstanding performance with today’s technology level, proven by Sony.
AA filter out, or with option to add it in video mode.
C(ustom) or U(ser) banks, to save your setups.
AMOLED screen with 2mln px resolution.
Better (7 or 9 exposures steps for bracketing)
Requests like this are what will kill this for SONY, because it demonstrates the gap in the market’s understanding of the technology. A 24-70mm/f2.8 is a huge lens. If you genuinely want this, then purchase an SLR. Instead, a full-frame NEX should focus mostly around higher IQ primes.
I agree about the primes, and two or three would be enough. There are thousands of FF lenses out there that can be used on a FF E-mount camera.
Any zooms should be designed for the professional video market, and priced accordingly.
I do have FF cameras, I do have APS-C cameras, I do have more than 10-15 lenses in total – primes and zooms.
And I really feel tired of changing lenses! Seriously!
I know 24-70mm is big, I’m more wishing they could fit a nice lens in RX100 style, despite the FF size.
And we’re talking about wishes here, right?
Plus, having my DSLR, I really look at this FF camera as a nice addition, something like a nice walk-around camera with excellent quality and at least close to pocketable size (RX1 size is quite nice).
In fact what they can do is to fit the RX100 lens in RX1 body.
Now, here is a challenge! 🙂
In my mind being able to use the 18-55mm or new zoom 16-50mm, in crop mode, when I can’t be bothered changing lenses would be great. Being able to slap a Zeiss, Leica or Voigtlander prime on the same body, when I want IQ or shallow DOF, or use the A-mount lenses would be even better, and all with full-frame goodness would be even better. A NEX like this would be realistic for the options it gives.
same build and specs with nex-7 or nex-6. but FF, and give us cheap price.
Native fix FF E-mount lens 24mm 35mm 50mm and a quality kit
sound a lot like leica m except for the price 🙂
Новый байонет! У Е-крепления короткий рабочий отрезок.
Стабилизация в корпусе камеры, EVF, DNG RAW, без АА-фильтра(!), 36Мп, хорошее ручное управление.
И, главное, сразу несколько объективов: 20-40, 40-140, 35, 45(50), 85(90), 135.
An olympus OMD-EM5, with touch-swirvel-screen, E-mount, OLED-viewfinder. I like the small body, and the way you can ad a normal and vertical grip. It can be professional or almost pocket-size.
As Fuji X-E1!!! No filter AA, no video, no flash.
Definitely don’t wanna see this possible FF NEX to be retro styled as the Fuji or any other old camera for that matter. I hope Sony decide to stay on the sleek modern path they have already chosen. Those clean lines will be iconic in the future. The FF NEX should look like the NEX-6 or 7, preferably not much larger.
Exactly this. Styling is emulation. The emphasis on form over function, is what makes the classic cameras (leica m series, contax) so timeless.
Make the lens mount A mount and you can have inbody AS, and have an adaptor for E mount lenses. Sensor to be 36MP or even higher MP and EVF to be better than in the A99.
And just how are they going to make a camera with A-mount that has an adapter for E-mount lenses?
The only way might be with a lot of optics in the adapter
Nobody would buy a mirrorless camera with A mount, because adapters for Canon, Nikon, etc would not work. For the serious user, the whole point of the NEX series is to use existing lenses.
For this reason, I would prefer the sensor that is used in the Nikon D800E to a 24-bit sensor. I want a sensor that is better than any of my lenses.
Alternatively, a 24 Mpix multilayer sensor would be even better – but I don’t think Sony is ready to put these into production.
I would like to see a better Support for manual focus like a option to turn all colors off exept those for focus peaking and a magnify mode (maybe not as extreme as the current two) that won’t exit when you press the shutter. Also better AF performance with color detection and a pre-record function (pictures are temporally stored to buffer befor the trigger is completely pressed) would be appreciated.
Regards,
Marcurion
The NEX9 I dream of :
E-mount with native FF E-mount designed lenses (compact, fast,…prime!)
Built-in EVF
In Body stabilization
14 bits
Weather sealed body
USB 3 or better
36 Megapixel sensor
Electronic curtain and huge battery life
Body : 3000 – 3500€
In Body stabilization won’t work with the diameter of E-mount…
Please, don’t underestimate Sony to invent InBodyStabilisation for E-Mount FullFrame, because I do count on them!!!
I see no reason why the E mount in itself should prevent in-body stabilisation. The sensor only has to move one millimetre at most.
But I suspect Sony might find a way to do it electronically, by combining the multiple exposures used in the AMB setting into one.
Agree on 14 bits, tho I would like to see 16 bits even more (lets be only one from current cams Sony, why not?).
Stabilised body.. um no, it would probably prevent flange focal distance from being Leica M friendly.
Yeah! Too cheap! I dream with a 10.000 € Sony FF camera!! That’s BIG
And lenses that fit with the concept : as small as possible – and even more -, top quality and innovative.
Please stop calling a low-price-A99 “A95”. That would be the number of an EARLIER model than the A99. Call it A87 or A88. Sony’s numbering system is (unlike Canons and Nikons) quite clear ;)…
Nex 7 like body with FF Nex lens and only 3 primes (pancakes): 24, 50 and some portrait lens (between 85 – 135 mm).
Why E-mount?
Leica M-E which simply put is Leica M mount with electronic contacts. Much simpler than creating new mount.
Otherwise, tough body, EVF on left side (rangefinder alike), lots of customizable external controls (no need to go into menus, if you set up everything already). Tilt-swivel screen is must.
Mpix – honestly dont care, I would like to see something with around 16-20 mpix and preferably without AA. If 24 or 36, then it really should be without AA. For 36 mpix its not needed. I would prefer less mpix and better SNR tho.
One very important thing – good battery life. Either make it big, or add grip.
Dont care about size of camera much, its theoretical ability to use any lens is good enough by itself.
A very sensible idea from a user’s standpoint. However, using the same dimensions/distances as a pre-existing mount increase the risk of treading on competitors’ patented territory.
Patents on the m-mount are expired. And there are so many fantastic lenses available http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leica_M_mount
I want the D800 Sensor in the Nex7 body. without AA filter! A digiback in short.
Leaf shutter
the sensor size could be the same, what matters is image quality. for me very important is SILENT SHUTTER
+1 for IBIS
“51% of the readers…”
Reminds me of Mark Twain.
Couple the 51% of the SAR readers and the 47% of Americans Mitt Romney doesn’t care about, and you have a whole ton of people who like to breathe air.
51% of readers say Sony should make XXX does NOT mean 51% of readers WOULD BUY XXX. That’s why market research should be left to people who know how to do market research.
I’d love to see a FF E-mount, but I wish they’d keep the price below $1500. Like the RX-1: $2800 for a $1300 lens coupled to a FF body, suggesting the body price could be $1500.
I think the price depends on two things:
1. production yields on the sensor chips
2. what price the marketing people think sends the right message.
Given the 16 Mpixel of the 5-models, a FF can easily count 32 Mpixel, keeping the same ISO-qualities. 24 will be too little by then. And yes, I would BUY one, not only consider buying one…
Hey guys (and dear Andrea… :-)), can we have a poll about if people would like to see a new Sony camera with a hybrid viewfinder (OVF + digital overlay, sth like in FujiFilm x100). I really don’t find more pixels amusing, but I know that alot of studio photographers welcome that very much, so OK. 🙂 For us others, we can always downsize/crop the quality/size.
I would like to see a Nex mirrorless with FF and interchangeable lense, + if it’s not possible to design a such body with sensor stabilization, I would not mind to see a camera with A mount without one, just not to buy E mount lense.
If you want an OVF + EVF full-frame then buy the new Leica M which has both. It’s only $7000. Otherwise SONY should focus on what’s reasonable affordable (eg $2000-$3000), and their competitive advantage which is EVF.
E mount. With good wide performance. This would allow the use of all those great SLR and RF lenses in their native focal length. As well as E-mount in crop mode. And A-mount lenses as well. Basically a VG900 in a small stills camera format.
Do we know yet that the VG-900 works with wide RF lenses?
Only a few incomplete reports are out there. From the voigtlander 35/1.4 (seems fine). And the Summicron 35 (reportedly ok, but no pics). We need to wait ’till it gets into the hands of reviewers and consumers, to start testing all these great full-frame lenses.
I saw the CV 35mm samples but then the CV 35mm does well on the 3,5, &7 I believe. I’m more curious about the CV 21 or 15 (although I’d fully expect some heavy light fall off on the 15 even the M9 does that).
I was really hoping for some more samples after the Sony week long extravagance in San Fran but so far nothing. Personally I’d be happy with an NEX-7 sized body, the new 24mpx sensor, and . . . that’s it. I’ll use legacy glass for full-frame (and maybe get a couple of Alpha zooms) and my couple of e-mount lenses when I want autofocus. I suppose the crop resolution would only be 10-12 mix but that’s still plenty for most of my needs if I’ve got the option of a full 24mpx with my legacy lenses.
It would be truely amazing if SONY beat leica at it’s own game vis a vis the VG900 and the m9 for wide corner performance!
I wouldn’t want that. To beat Leica at better corner performance on symmetrical wide-angle M, Sony needs to have a more specialized micro-lenses. What most wouldn’t realize is that, this specialized micro-lens structure is not good for telephoto lens. I would rather have something like Distagon WA design for all the WA. Yes, it would be big, but the performance is not as compromise on digital sensor.
To Rolleiflex:
Distagons? Then go for SLRs. It is distagon design which compromises performance (to be able to fit a mirror), rather than reverse.
Yes, and after a few year of sensors’ improvement, you either dump your hugey Distagons or try to find pride in carrying them.
I am quite happy with my NEX-7 and would probably not buy a FF NEX (body alone for 2500 – 3500 plus new lenses). I would rather be interested in an APSC NEX-7x body as I believe that an APSC sensor can offer sufficient IQ for enthusiasts like me. Agree with all Andrea´s proposals, but wish a PASM dial with a dedicated video mode allowing for remote video release and control.
Customisable EVF with direct controls, including gain dial and on/off button. Socket for timer remote. Use of NP-FM500H batteries.
– E-mount
– 24MP with no AA option
– DR 15EV
– native iso from 50
– weather sealed
– no built-in EVF
– touch-swirvel-screen
– dedicated button
plus zeiss 24-120mm F4
NEX-9 with at least 24Mpx sensor and at least one FF E-mount lens (either 35/40mm f2) at launch. They should otherwise mimic the Contax G lineup (28, 45, 90mm). The rest can be A-mount lenses.
E-mount + fullframe = A-mount
Why develop an other complete new mount if you have the (fullframe) A-mount? I don’t really see the point… Or am i the only one.
I’d think a nex-styled/featured A-mount camera would be more obvious.
Please let sony put his energy in the current mounts, we all want more lenses to choose from right? Why do we want an other mount…..
E-mount is full frame as well (See the VG900). The advantage is that full frame A-mount lenses can be adapted to E-mount simply. The reverse (including RF, SLR and 3rd party lenses) is not the case.
Totally agree with your wish list! Especially the shutter speed dial. Things like ISO, AF mode, exposure compensation, focusing area, metering area, should be either independently dialed or very easily accessed. Menus should not have more than 2-level depth.
PLUS:
– A contrast level meter, in addition to peaking, and/or contrast-detect focus confirmation. Peaking only works for sharp edges; a level meter would let the photographer decide when it is “sharp enough”.
ADDITIONALLY:
– Adapters for communicating with other brands’ lenses. That would kill.
– Less EVF lag. Larger EVF magnification, at least 0.9x at 50 mm. Larger eye cup.
– OEM LCD Loupe!
– I’ll second the no-AA version.
– $1500-2000 price tag for me. 🙂
– I wouldn’t mind on-sensor phase detection, but only if it will work easily with third-party lenses. The “focal length selection” should pop up whenever an adapter is mounted.
Actually, the body specs are not as important as the need for good-quality PANCAKE PRIMES! The 16/2.8 is an atrocious lens.
The aspherical CV15 beats anything from Nikon and Canon (sharpness/distortion,CA/SA) and is only $500 or so. Symmetrical lense are superior designs compared with reverse-telephoto. Given a full-frame NEX and the CV15 you would likely see rapid adoption from architectual and landscape professionals.
Yes, another great reason for a full-frame mirrorless! (By mirrorless I mean also rangefinderless, as some of you know. 🙂 ) Goes with the rest of the CV lenses, too.
Not to mention monsters like the Zeiss 15/3.5! Leica 15/2.8! 24/1.4! I will never be able to afford those after buying a full-frame, but it would be nice to know they can be used without a shift-mount and stitching.
I was thinking earlier that I might prefer a heftier body, too, but I think this is just me. The NEX form factor does not balance well with super-teles and super-wides. I wouldn’t mind, for instance, an SLT-like body, without the SLT and phase-detect, but with E mount, or a closer A mount. Or something like the E-M5. In their other divisions, Sony is infamous for producing way too many models with basically the same features, with variations no one wants, so why not? 🙂
The VG-900 probably will work for me. It just a bit too expensive, and I won’t be using any of the audio/video niceties.
– pro quality body (like D800 that would be enough)
– nex7 style body (maybe with a touchpanel on the front somewhere and/or a ring around the mount to control whatever the user wants)
– lots of fn buttons, iso button, af mf button
– d800 sensor or even newer but 36mp (4:5 aspect would be perfect)
– ibis would be great but I think I read that it is impossible with a ff sensor and the nex mount
– price 20% less than the d800 (should be possible because no much simpler design)
-integrated arca style quckrelease dovetail plate for landscape and portrait orientation.
– comes with grips that slide over the quickrelease dovetail!
– android and ios (not for me of course) integration, use your tablet as a high resolution viewfinder.
– fully articulated lcd (no oled !)
lenses:
– a very high quality 35mm/50mm/90mm tilt shift lens
– a very reasonably priced very high quality low speed (f/4 or even 5.6) lens set 24, 28, 35, 42, 50, 80, 120mm.
Yes. We need more cameras, exactly right after the new cameras introduced.
We need at least 4 to 1 ratio of different cameras to number of available lenses.
Yesterday, I took a picture. It was not that good. If only I had FF nex…
taking the feature set of the NEX-7 as a reference here is what I would expect in addition from a full frame NEX in the order of importance:
– LCD tilts in both axis to be able to shoot at waist level both in landscape and portrait orientation
– offset micro lenses on sensor to allow use of classic, non retro focus, wide angle, rangefinder lenses
– rugged and weather sealed
– programmable custom modes
– Higher bit rates for video (at least on par with 5dMk3 or GH3)
– Extended programmable Auto ISO (beyond 1600 ISO)
– Clean HDMI out
If we are talking full-frame/Mirrorless are we not also talking about lenses?
I’m all if favor of smaller-lighter cameras and lenses but only to a point.
Image quality, focal-length capabilities and lens speed and don’t forget ergonomics are also part of the deal for me, and for now, I’m leaving price out of the equation.
It’s reported that none of the current NEX lenses would work well on a full-frame, so we are talking from scratch if we are thinking E-Mount.
For my needs, and my desire to create the best images I can short of moving to medium format this is my dream Sony full-frame camera, starting with a few new Zeiss lenses and updates to the current Sony/Zeiss catalog.
===The Sony alpha A1===
36 to 48 MP full-frame sensor, mirrorless (not SLT)
A-Mount body similar to the a99 in size
Image quality equal to the RX1 with the features of the a99
USB3, tethering, GPS
Next generation of EVF and screen
And yes I am a pixel counter that lives and works in Lightroom/Photoshop and starts every adjustment of a selected RAW file looking at it at 100% and is not bothered by big files and believe that the more information available in the file the better, so bring on the 48MP plus sensors and 14-16 bit file depth it’s all good, the more I have to work with the better.
1. Mirrorless, FF of course.
2. Three individual manual dials; Aperture, Exposure, and ISO.
All would have a setting A for automatic, to be used alone or with one or both of the others.
3. A new universal mount that accepts automatic adapters for Sony, Canon, Nikon, Leica and Zeiss lenses.
4. Built in HDR.
5. Built in GPS.
P.S. Minimum 36 MP
– “E-mount with native FF E-mount designed lenses” … but with OSS “stabilisation in lenses” like the existing NEX E-mount APS-C lenses (this stabilisation can be used for video, as the “in body stabilisation” also named “sensor shift” it is used only for photo and it is not used for video in A65/A77/A99 – according to the Sony manuals).
– GPS
they want it, but I’m sure almost no one would pay a reasonable price for it, and don’t have in mind they would have to change all their lenses….
Built-in sensor tilt&shift capability for landscapes and macro shooting (will work with ANY lenses, autofocus). A view camera in your pocket.
A built in viewfinder and in-body stabilisation are all it really needs for features.
Improving the performance with wide angles would help. So a sharper micro filter array and in-camera correction.
Looking at the quality out of the Fuji X-E1, I see no reason to spend the money on full frame. It hangs out easily with the Nikon D600 and A99. I can’t believe how clean the ISO 6400 output is. This is what I’ve been hoping for with each successive NEX / SLT camera. IQ is my priority, and the Fuji has it. The initial focusing slowness is gone, and so I see no reason to wait for a full-frame NEX.
here are my 5 cents:
– design and quality like nex6/nex7 is ok
– weather sealed
– built-in EVF
– 24 Mpix
– built-in stabilization
– touch-screen
– quick access to the settings from the touch-screen (like it is on DSLR with Fn button)
– fast and reliable AF
– a mirrorless A-mount adapter with built-in motor, with sensor based auto-focus
– tilt screen
– over-write EXIF parameters manually for manual lenses
– price 1500-1800 EUR
ps. don’t really care about E-mount lenses – I would use A-mount and many other brands manual ones
M Mount to accept Leica lenses
I don’t want to sound all doom and gloom, but does anyone else think that the pieces are falling into place for the E-mount to replace the A-mount soon? I mean, here’s the evidence:
E-mount is newer electronically and can have firmware-upgradeable lenses
E-mount is more flexible with adapters
E-mount circle has been proven to cover FF
PDAF on sensor is now available for higher speed (with lenses designed or adapted for it)
Legacy A-mount lenses can be used with adapters
Sony chooses to close the former Minolta factory where G lenses are made for A-mount
In sales rankings, the NEX consistently performs at or near the top of its category, while the Alpha DSLR/DSLTs consistently come up short
I don’t know; it’s sounding more and more like Sony might be slowly shifting strategy toward the NEX as its bread-and-butter and moving away from the A-mount. I think the real proof will come if Sony DOES make native FF E-mount lenses. That will show that they are shifting their FF commitment from the A-mount to the E-mount, since the latter was supposed to be consumer-level.
I want it to be 36 megapixel so I can use my existing E-mount lenses in crop mode and not feel like a total chump for doing so. At 36mp, crop mode would have between 15 and 16 megapixels still and be at the same pixel pitch as existing 16mp sensors.
It should also have hybrid AF, and a built in EVF of course. I hope it will be entirely “pro” oriented as I’m sure nobody buying this is going to be a momtographer.
Well if they do It would not be such a bad idea. I love my alpha but I would love it more if it were like a nex.
1.In-body image stabilization
2.some how get the a99 battery to fit.
3.two card slots
4.pop up flash that can be tilted back like my nex-f3 but can also be held in place for bounce flash or just to trigger another flash.
5. 20 megapixels
6. built in wireless trigger for flash
7. Same sensor as A99 or a better one if possible
My wishlist:
• 36MP (minimum) non-Bayer random pattern CMOS.
• 14-stop dynamic range
• A-mount. Don’t make me buy another set of lenses.
Nex-like body, but slightly bigger
Built-in EVF
In Body stabilization !(nobody else will not ever do it so this have to be)!
24 Megapixel FF sensor
E-mount
DNG RAW
Body price 2400-2600 Euro
Weather sealed body
And MOST important part, quality lenses. minimum size, maximum quality (about 1200€ each):
Approximately something like this:
18mm 2.8
35mm 2
100mm 2 macro (or something little smaller = 2.8)
2xTC
+everything else is an extra
This is system where I could invest in, i don’t have the money now, but in couple of years…
1. FF 24 MP sensor with phase detection on the sensor – and of course super fast autofocus.
2. Native quality E mount lenses (hopefully Olympus can help here)including a 24-75 f2.8 power zoom.
3. MP4 1080p 30fps video recording at the same bit rate as AVCHD
4. Dual card slot with capability to take pictures during movie recording.
5. Accessories: Water-proof case up to 60 meters.
I basicaly won’t buy any new NEX body as long as lenses stay that huge and slow !
– SteadyShot Inside
– Weather Sealed
– Articulating LCD screen
– Integrated EVF or attachable to hotshoe
– Integrated flash + Hotshoe
– 800+ photo battery life
– Leaf shutter for flash sync across entire range
Integrated Lenses:
– 45 f/1.4 or
– 24-70 f/2-2.8 pancake
For me EVF is a must. Must be able to take leica lenses with the mount converters. Ideally like the chip to be as resilient to the colour fringing with wide angle range finder lenses as possible. The body should allow you to select non-CPU lens data (like on a nikon) to write metadata to the files. Should have a proper flash socket (no internal flash needed). Should allow for some in-body colour de-fringing for wide angle RF lenses (based on the non-CPU lens data selected). Must have great High ISO (but I think thats a given). I would prefer around the 16MP mark. EVF to be faster than Nex-7 in operation and to allow locking mode to using EVF for taking photos and screen for reviewing. Easier access to ISO control would also be good
Enough with all these new bodies. I am very happy with my 5n and need more high quality lens for nex system beside the Zesis 24 1.8. There are more bodies than lens in this system already. It is ridiculous.
I’d like a modest MP FF sensor with a lot of customization and external controls, built-in flash, EVF. Please, pretty please, give it Custom Setting banks (à la GX-1) and square 1:1 ratio !! I’d rather go for lower MP and lower price 😉
Andrea X-E1 lacks ISO control. Fuji copied film camera design that lacks digital advantages. Sony NEX and RX cameras offer 21st Century feel. Yet I empathize with the retro crave. So nex-6 with iso dial may be winner…. Nex-7 with marked dedicated and different in size dials looking like leica is my preference
24mp,improved af, improved mf(peaking), paid fw updates, thoroughly tested and refined with photographers
Sony should continue with their innovative and disruptive solutions. Rather than a fixed E-mount with A-mount adapters (a la VG900), why not create a camera with interchangable mounts? Similar in concept to Ricoh’s GXR, except the sensor is FF and integrated to the rear of the body.
Not only E and A mount modules with full working electronics, but Sony could create M mount module under license, and possibly even M43 mount (in crop mode). Not only that, third parties could eventually create other mount modules with working af since you’re no longer limited to the E-mount opening and adapters.
This is one ‘hybrid’ solution i would love to see in the market. From Sony, or anyone else.
One can use compact m43 or nex primes for casual daily and travel use, m glass for street photography or casual events, slr mount and ff glass for studio work and paid events.
Truly “the future ahead of schedule”. Like a world without borders.
And for the wishlist:
1. Super CCD Foveon like FF sensor (electronic shutter on higher shutter speeds)
2. Interchangable mounts
3. IBIS
4. WiFi device controlled Flash System (make flash setting changes and trigger in conjunction with wireless live view/preview from tablet/smartphone)
5. Better out of camera jpegs
Current E mount makes no sense for FF sensor. None of the current Sony E mount lenses’ image circle would cover a FF sensor, so why not simply a new mount?
I use old and new manual focus RF and SLR lenses, I’ll just need new dumb adapters for a new mount. Sony E and A mount lenses would only need new adapters too (no big deal).
New mount should allow all light from old glass to reach the FF sensor (why FF if they’d not?). For me it is the FF sensor in the nex-5n form factor that would make a FF nex amazing (add an EVF too please, for sunny days).
-Ricardo
Sensor –
24mp multilayer (foveon style)
Integrated phase and contrast detect
Global electronic shutter
Stabilization would be terrific, but eliminating shutter may reduce vibration enough for stills in which case clever pixel tracking may achieve enough stabilizatin in video.
Mount –
E-mount, but fully open the API to encourage mount adapter development
Body –
Very nex7 like
Weather sealed
Controls –
need user modes that allow save of ALL settings, at least 2, ideally 3 or 4 (u1 – u4)
Otherwise like nex7
Lenses
Only need a few physically small high quality primes for times/needs when small size is a priority. Alpha adapter (or 3rd party) brings good glass when size is not a priority.
Ability to manually register 3rd pty lenses, ideally would adjust focus peaking based on focal length a f.
Accessories –
iso hot shoe
Battery grip for when you need the juice to autofocus big lenses
Price –
Fully eliminating shutter and separate autofocus, plus small size (less materials cost) should help considerably so I think $2K is probably doable, but sony may well judge that the market will pay considerably more. I am left to hope they will want to build share vs. higher margin on fewer units as such a camera could easily be priced in 5D / D800 territory…
Cross between NEX 7 and RX1 call it NX1
4MP EVF with a larger magnification, and faster refresh.
Weather sealed, more room between grip and mount, better grip design that doesn’t peel.
Focus on a compact set of 24, 35, 50, 75 or 90mm lenses, release 2per year.
Don’t handicap features(can’t use remote with bracketing)
Focus on curing color shift & smearing in the sensor design, it will free you lens design team.
I’ve only been using an NEX-5N for a few weeks with a growing collection of vintage manual-focus lenses, but I’m planning on moving to a FF NEX if it can prove to be as or more competent as my trusty 5D mark II that I sold for the 5N. Here’s my dream list:
*In-camera Image Stabilization! (a la OM-D E-M5…why is that “impossible” with a FF sensor? this would be amazing with my telephoto MF lenses)
*1/8000 shutter speed! I can’t express how frustrating it is to run into the 1/4000 limit as often as I do.
*Silent Shutter mode (a la D800)
*Larger, higher resolution screen as on modern smartphones. 3.5″-4″ 1280×720 would be sweet. 3:2 is more ideal, but it seems like screens are going towards 16:9 these days…
*4K video would be a nice trick, but I’d rather have higher quality 1080p60 plus 720p120 (along with more 720p options) and even 480p240 :P. If the GoPro Hero 3 can do it…
*Option to use only the center of the sensor for video (“crop mode” video, like D7000?)
*External mic input
*Clean/RAW 1080p out on HDMI port
*More customizable firmware, more than just “apps”…ability to totally customize/replace the Sony UI (pipe dream, I know)
*Intervelometer (for time-lapse photography) with option to output a movie. And customizable shutter timer (why are the options only 10 & 2 seconds on all cameras?!?) and ability to set Bulb time (again, why are digital cameras limited to 30 second exposures outside of Bulb mode?)
*Customizable in-camera color-mapping/processing templates (a la Canon’s Picture Styles, but more advanced, ideally Lightroom-like processing ability)
*Customizable JPEG (& RAW) sizes (I personally would like to see 1920×1080 & 3840×2160 options)
*Expanded ISO range: 50 to 102400 with more customizable Auto ISO
*Better ergonomics than the 5N (sorry, I haven’t used the NEX-7). The grip & placement of the thumb wheel on my 5D2 was perfect, so something that could split the differece would be moving in the right direction.
*More dials are definitely welcome. Highest priority would be ISO, followed by Exposure Compensation (although I have to say that the metering on the 5N is stellar…way better than my 5D2), and lastly shutter speed.
*+/-5 EV exposure compensation & up to 9 frames bracketing
*Better in-camera HDR
*No more than 24MP resolution, but definitely 14 bit or even 16 bit
*Plays nicely with alt/vintage lenses, no color-shift in the corners (mainly a problem with wide-angle lenses). Automatic chromatic aberration correction with alt/all lenses would be awesome too.
*Also regarding alt lenses, ability to input a bunch of different lens names & their focal lengths to select from (in the UI) for storing in EXIF data. Granted you’d have to remember to change it every time you switched alt lenses, but still, it’d be nice info to have stored in the images. Same with apertures, but more of a challenge determining which aperture is which.
*Better dust reduction by blowing puffs of air on the sensor (doesn’t some company already do this? it’s brilliant)
*Higher-resolution & more responsive EVF would be nice
*Improved focus-peaking, “straight to 10x” magnification option, maybe magnified portion on right side of screen while the full image & a box highlighting the magnified section is on the right
*Built-in Wi-Fi and built-in remote tethering app
*Better battery life, >500 images with EVF, >700 with rear LCD
*Scroll/selection wheel near shutter-release button (a la D800 & 5D2)
*Combine stills & videos during playback…it’s so annoying to have to switch folders!
*Rating system in playback (1-5 stars, a la 5D Mark III, readable in Lightroom).
*Ability to filter images shown during playback, like “Show only 5-star images” or “Show only images taken on October 22”, or “Show only photos taken with Zeiss 24mm lens” or “Show only videos” 😛
Phew..sorry for the long list. I know Sony is probably already done developing their FF NEX, but maybe they can incorporate some of these suggestions into the next version 🙂
I would like to see:
Nex E-mount FF with, iso button, shutter speed dial and lenses with aperture-control ring in RX1-sized body. Two native pancake lenses at launch, a 50mm/2.0 and a 28mm/2.8.
Electronic viewfinder with absolutely NO lag when moving the camera fast.
This would be a dream come true. If they cant make a “lag-free” EVF, then skip it and just make a RX1 with interchangable lenses.
Thankyou Sony!
Hi,
I’d love to see a camera optimised for stills at low ISO (50). The current trend seems to be video and high ISO at all costs. Nothing wrong with that, but today’s market favours niches and it would be great that innovative camera makers such as Sony recognise the existence of many photographers (landscape, art, portrait, architecture …) who just don’t don’t don’t give a damn about ISO6400 and video 😉
Also, resist the temptation to make it too small. The “tiny hand photographer” niche doesn’t exist. Take the NEX-6 make it bigger and full frame and make us happy 🙂
Apart from that :
* optimise for M-mount glass. Many will be attracted from the Leica stable.
* Include IBIS (I know it’s not possible, in theory, but that’s what innovation is all about. *Make* it possible 😉
* GET RID OF THE $#@£¤!! AA FILTER (why not make a limited edition with AA for fashion photographers and the three – maybe four – photographers in the universe that have lost money to moire in the past century ? 😉 Fuji do so. Leica do so. Sigma do so. Heck, even Nikon do so today. Are you going to get left behind ?
Oh, and, Keep It Simple Sony. The RX1 seems fantastic in that respect !
Thanks for doing this, Andrea !
I want a PROfessional mirrorless camera (FF or APS-C). But there are no two things in NEX:
1. Two memory cards (for backups);
2. All-weather body and lenses.
I see a portable full frame camera as a landscape tool that can be taken to the really remote and hard to get to places. I need a decent range of bracketing options. I am not going to want to lug a big filter kit with me for a portable setup and so I need to be able to create HDRs from RAW images. at least 3 shots 2EV apart. Ideally up to 5 or even 7 exposures. Why not? The implementation cost is negligible and it can be used to great effect. Along with this I need a remote triggering port. Tethering would be preferred so that I could use my phone as a controller but that really is a wishlist item.
For Auto-Exposure Bracketing (AEB), fix the NEX menu that puts Auto-Exposure Bracketing on the same Drive menu with both self-timer and wireless remote relese!
Whenever feasible, you want to do Auto-Exposure Bracketing with the camera on a tripod and use either a remote release or the self-timer to ensure the images align without software trying to align them in post-processing. But with Auto-Exposure Bracketing on the same Drive menu with the wireless remote and the self-timer, it is impossible to use bracketing eith either a wireless remote or the self-timer.
Canon, Panasonic, Nikon etc. all realize an exposure setting such as AEB has to be selectable independently of whatever Drive setting is desirable.. Sony NEX’s keep perpetuating this menu design error. The recent NEX-7 firmware update expanded the AEB range from an inadequate +/- 0.7 EV up to +/- 3 EV but they failed to move the AEB selection off the Drive menu.
I sold all my Nikon equipment and bought a Sony Nex-7 and lens. I love it but the one thing I miss is my Sony does not have presets. With the Nikon I could preset functions that I used often. Having presets for macro, landscape, sports, etc, being just a menu click away, is something Sony should consider for a high end full frame camera. As the price of a full frame will be putting it in the hands of serious photographers,and pro’s, presets would be a plus.
Nikon uses the exact same F mount for both DX (crop size) and FX (full frame) cameras and lenses. If you use a DX lens on a FX body, you get a crop size image, and if you use an FX lens on a DX body, you get an angle of view equal to 1.5x the focal length. People understand that, and that has not been a problem.
No reason why the same can’t work for Sony as well. It would be nuts to come up with yet another mount. Sony has a pretty decent line up of E mount lenses now, and they can start making new E mount lenses for a Full-frame sensor. In the mean time, an E-mount NEX-9 would work with Leica, Zeiss and Voigtlander M mount lenses, Leica R mount lenses, Nikon F mount lenses, Canon, Sony A mount lenses, etc. through adapters already available now.
24MP would be a nice resolution – Even the 36MP sensor in the Nikon D800E would be great!
My wish list:
1. No or very minimal AA filter
2. No thick glass plate on the sensor like in the NEX-7 that causes hideous magenta cast when used with ultra wide angle M lenses.
3. Ability to program a list of non-Sony lenses that are not electronically coupled to the camera (e.g., Lens #7: “Leica APO Macro Elmarit-R 100/2.8”, or Lens #8: “Carl Zeiss Jena Biotar 75/1.5”). That way, when I mount a lens, I can select a lens, and not have to remember what lens I used. The camera should write this lens description out in the EXIF file.
4. A standard flash hot shoe at the top.
5. A slightly larger body would be OK – somewhere between an NEX-7 and a Leica M9. That way, the camera could accommodate a larger battery.
6. WiFi to upload images, without having to connect a cable or pull out the memory card.
7. Ability to add a voice memo or text with each image
8. Built in GPS
Other features have been quite thoroughly covered above, I think.
I would pay $2,500 or even $3,000 (USD) for a camera like that.
I just want a FF NEX-7 or -6 alike camera.
The price or the exact features of such a FF mirrorless camera doesn’t matter, as long as we remain in similar characteristics to the existing FF CaNikon cameras.
True wide angle performance with native and legacy glass thats all.