An imaginary RX1 interchangeable camera created by EOS20 (via Redbubble).
I know I shocked you by posting this is FAKE(!) rendering! But in yesterdays RX1 poll only 15% of the readers said they would buy the fixed lens RX1. So my question to you now is. Would you have bought the RX1 with 35mm f/2.0 Zeiss lens if it would have an interchangeable lens mount?
[poll id=”119″]
And now two link to people I do highly respect. They wrote their thoughts about the RX1:
Kai Wong writes on Digitalrev: “This could quite possible change the world of digital cameras. This is huuuuge. It only takes one company to push the ball over the hill for it to become a huge hit. This could potentially lure some of the bigger companies into doing something similar. This could be mirrorless/compact camera 2.0. This could be the first Sony digital camera I ever buy. ”
David Kilpatrick writes on Photoclubalpha: “I think, perhaps, that after a long time of ignoring photographers Sony finally listened. They may have listened to the wrong ones. The lens enthusiasts of dPreview represent a tiny minority. Those who will spend nearly $3k on a fixed lens compact – even with full frame – are even fewer.”
What do you think?
184 Responses
I would’ve bought it . But too bad it isn’t !!.
There’s a good reason why cameras in the Leica M system are “fatter”: The rear elements of some of that system’s lenses protrude far too much to be used on cameras as thin as the RX1. Also, focusing would be from far beyond infinity and down to infinity (in this case equal to minimum focusing distance) – although an adapter might do the trick.
Of course it would be possible to make the 28mm flange requirement for m-mount via an adaptor. What is it that you think is so different on the rx1 that would prevent it from using m-lenses like u4/3 or NEX cameras?
If you look at the picture, the Leica bayonet is on the camera, not on any adapter. Using an adapter would obviously be the solution – but I already mentioned that, so I don’t see your point.
Sony is doing a few things here that no other camera maker is doing. If you are waiting for Nikon to make a pocket-sized D800, good luck.
yes, but besides the camera/sensor size – how can you compare those cameras (rx1 and d800)?
They are in different worlds…
Look at it, like this… every post with the RX1 on it has more than 150 comments every day. Every day it causes people to come and comment something here, whether its pro or against it.
Sony hit a home run. I will be among the first buyers. This essentially replaces my 24mm sonnar and nex 7. I will keep my 5n for the 50mm, the 35mm, the 11-18 zoom and so on for video and stills. Maybe I will get the 5R if the heating thing is sorted out.
As I shoot most of my stuff in 35mm FOV on FF, this is a perfect cam for me. For many, it will be because its compact. For many, its too expensive to be justifiable. It doesn’t matter, this cam has a market and the controversy and buzz its causing will only help it become the bases of a new breed of cams that used to sell very well in the past (Ricoh GR, Contax T2, T3, Rollei 35, etc)
RX1 has the perfect FOV that I will use 85% of the time. This is a game changer. I will buy this the day it is released.
IBIS please 🙂
I just realized I was 1st.. Well can’t wait for tom’s news and hands-on
What’s with this obsession to be the first to post ? Lol
Except you aren’t. This obsession is bizarre.
Huh? Who was first poster in this thread?
The lens would not have been this small (with the same quality) if it were interchangeable. That’s the key point people many people seem to ignore here.
Rubbish. Do you know how big a 35mm f2 Summicron is?
On a fatter body that the Leica M is…if you make it as thin as NEX or RX1, then you end up with….another 20mm more?
m-mount needs 28mm. Everyone says the sensor of the Rx1 sits right at the back of the camera. So perhaps the flange of an m-mount adaptor would sit 8mm proud of the body.
This would be consistent with some overlay pictures used to compare the size of the m9 with the RX1 that you can find with google.
My point is not that a non-ILS camera can be made smaller. Only the sacrifice needed for ILS is not that onerous. Mostly it will be the focal length of the lens that will dictate the overall size requirements, assuming a certain image-circle etc.
Its MF. You don’t know anything about micro lenses.
So you highly regard Kai… I guess there is nothing to add… Bye SAR I quit…
+1
Kai isn’t giving SAR the rumors, so to care beyond that seems a bit disingenuous, but it’s your life.
There have been some highly regarded clowns, so I guess anything is possible.
You are coming back in 5 minutes 😉
Nobody should respect a clown like that Kai guy…..what does he know about photography…..i have seen his work and that shit is hilarious…..
I find DK position quite extreme. I am pretty sure this camera will sell well. It’s not for everyone for sure, but it will sell. And it moves Sony further under the lights IMHO
that exact model with interchangeable lens, I would have bought immediately but I understand it’s not technically possible, it would be less compact.
No, not without integrated viewfinder.
And Sony already struggles to make small lenses for APS-C. I doubt that going 24×36 is the solution 🙂
+1 with a nex 7 style body with evf and a price below 2500 I would seriously think about it.
A FF NEX-7 and a price below $2500? No need to think!
I think the poll would be more realistic if you allowed options like: “Yes, if I had the money” and/or “No, because of the price”.
I guess the majority of us would’ve voted for either of these…
Yes.
The problem with digital cameras is that they become obsolete so quickly. Paying that much for a camera that will be out of date in two years only makes sense if you are rich.
A good film camera (Leica M4 for instance) could last a lifetime – or at least until film was replaced by digital – so although expensive it was a good investment.
Not 2 years, Sony brings a new Nex every 6 month 🙂
If I will shoot the same amount of pictures on the film camera as I would with a digital camera. The cost to develop and buy films would easily be offset within two years. The camera is outdated, but it doesn’t mean you have to buy the latest and greatest out there. There are still people shooting with the 5D Classic and are perfectly happy with it. As long as there are enough people willing to pay for these FF cameras, the price would hardly go down. So if you want it, then you should buy it. Buying a film camera is not an alternative, it’s a lifestyle.
damn…. even more salt in the wounds…
Seeing this thing with an interchangeable lens just makes me even more sad for what might have been. i guess i’ll be waiting another 6 months or a year to make a new purchase….. if i can just resist the temptation to buy a d600.
I really, really, really want to buy this, but I know when the interchangeable lens version becomes available i’ll kick myself for spending 2800 dollars on this rather inflexible camera.
+1
I still don’t believe the price. It’s a trick from Sony. The real price will be $1500 or, most likely, less.
The Fuji X100 is $1200. If it had a f1.4 lens instead of 2.0 it would roughly have the same capabilities as this RX1. With that 1.4 lens it would have been a bit bigger and more expensive (say $1400), but it still has a complex and expensive hybrid VF. Without the VF it could cost $1100-$1200.
What are you smoking?! That would make it the cheapest full-frame digital ever. And you get a ZEISS lens!
Yes, I think the current price is a little steep but not that much.
LOL, if you don’t have enough money then don’t buy a full frame. There are people who will. To think that this camera should be $1500 is really ridiculous.
When you say ZEISS lens, you know that this is a Sony leans with the ZEISS moniker, right? Same as Panasonic lenses with the Leica brand on them. They are not LEICA lenses!
Full frame 50mm f1.4 lenses cost $300.
We are just speculating, anyway. We will see the final price tomorrow.
@Milan: this is a real Zeiss lens. Sony and Zeiss are cozy enough as it is but both the price of the RX1 and Zeiss’s recent statements about expanding their business (a success story almost exclusively made possible by Sony) should convince anyone.
Didn’t read any news, so you might be right. I wonder if the RX100 also has a real CZ lens, made in Germany. Or maybe we have to guess which ones are real and which ones are not.
awwww do i hear a poor boy whining about how he doesn’t have enough money.
Kai?
You must be out of your mind to bring this person’s statement here for your credibility and referring.
We had Ken Rockwell quotes here! It doesn’t get any worse then that – even Kai is an authority comparing to him. So I have no idea why you are surprised.
Which is the bigger clown, Ken vs. Kai. Now that’s a vote worth setting up!
My vote goes for Ken.
Kai at least thinks he is fun
– Ken thinks he is a serious authority, what makes him look only more stupid then he actually is.
I vote for Kai for even considering purchasing this toy camera. I will continue to deride sony products independent to how good they are. Remember my agenda is to make money through website hits not help people buy the best camera.
If the lens is fixed, they have to ship it with a great lens for anybody to buy it.
The NEX ships with a kit-lens that´s not that impressive and the Zeiss 24 1.8 is almost €900 were I live.
So I think fixed lens keeps price down and quality up.
(Still expensive as hell, but It´s never cheap to be an early adopter).
FF NEX just needs to ship with A-mount adapter………then with other adapters add all the FF legacy glass you want.
There’s no AF on Leica’s $7000 M9.
😉
Thom Hogan IMHO is correct: No Viewfinder, no buy.
http://www.sansmirror.com/newsviews/will-fujifilm-get-the-messa.html
I don’t want a $3k P&S camera that I need to operate like a $49 one, I want a viewfinder.
Sony: They only seem to make cameras, where they can outsource the lenses to CZ. RX100: CZ, RX1: CZ. NEX? hahaha.
This one got 2 optional viewfinders – you either go with optical or electronic.
Have fun buying it then! 😉
I like the idea of modular.
If Sony showed and released an accessory kit with lens attachments to change focal length–up and down, with a swivel EVF, I would consider purchase of the RX1.
100% elitist garbage. The screen suffices. I love my viewfinders (and you’ll be able to get one for the RX1) but to dismiss this level of innovation simply because you can’t bring the camera to your face directly out of the box is asinine.
I would in a heartbeat if it had a high rez EVF built in.
This RX1 is just a luxury showcase for Sony.
It’s like a two-seat roadster: expensive, not so handy, but so much fun!
My thought exactly, though it will get some heads turned.
I’d surely be buying this machine if I had the money.
It’s all that I want from a camera:
– good lens, good sensor, compact package
This thing has my name on it, with “start finding yourself a real job” written behind it 😀
Yes, it’s divine
What I believe is , for a market with high demand , who go first will be the Leading company of this market.. good work Sony!
Sony needs to hire some professional photographers for their R&D team.
Sony has all the skills to make 95% of the people 110% happy but they cock tease every one with hints of unlimited orgasms and just end up delivering premature ejaculation.
Sony needs to make a must have product that others will not only be afraid to make but also unable,locked in, for at least 5 years.
Then they can steal market share from CaNikon.
^This.
Sony have the engineers and the money, what they lack is people who listen to photographers and implement their ideas. I’d add marketing to that too, they are shite at marketing and always have been.
True dat
John
Unfortunately, protectionism seems to be getting in the way!
Pretty well everyone on this forum doesn’t get it. Changeable lenses are last century’s technology. They’re mechanical solutions to the composition problem. In the 19th century you had to physically move your camera to change the composition. In 20th century the photographer you mechanically change the camera’s focal length. A boon for photographers feet but it came with compromises in image quality. In the 21st century you digitally change your composition – if you have enough resolution digital zoom is superior – no lens distortion, no slow zooms lens, no vignetting and no heavy bag of lenses.
This camera is about maximising resolution and minimising distortion. Having achieved that you can take full advantage of those 24MP. If you don’t believe me that digital zoom is the future check out the Million MP picture: http://gigapan.org/viewGigapanFullscreen.php?auth=033ef14483ee899496648c2b4b06233c If you got enough MP you don’t need bigger lenses. And if you can stitch images together you don’t need shorter lenses.
That is where digital photography is going and this camera is Sony’s first serious move down that path. It is going to blow away every FF, APSC and M4/3 for resolution, dynamic range, sharpness. And you are going to ask yourself why would I carry around extra lenses when you get better results with digital zoom.
Some people want that large sensor, for the options it provides for DOF. Crop either digitally or with the sensor, and that benefit is lost even if you have resolution to spare.
And photography is still very much about the optics. And you need a lens longer than 35mm to control perspective distortion when taking portraits for instance.
Its a fabulous camera, with a consistent ideology that will suit a lot of people. But it can’t be as general as an ILS camera.
+1
You should watch this:
http://www.cameratechnica.com/2011/11/08/free-lecture-from-cmos-sensor-inventor-on-image-sensor-technology/
Sensors will trump mechanical optics. The lenses can be built directly onto the chip, MP will increase till we can measure each photon. In five years we will have 100 MP cameras. 5 years after that 1000MP. The compact of the future will be a flat panel, containing a large format sensor with no physical lens. it will be built into the screen of you iPhone. Everything will be done in software. If computers can fly planes at MACH 5 then they can certainly take photos. Sony is the company that will bring this tech to market. The have to otherwise Apple will do it for them.
I read the accompanying article. I agree that sensors continue to improve. However lenses are relatively unchanged. A recent summicron is not much sharper than one from 50 years ago.
This is because of the inherent problem that bending a bunch of rays that all reflect at different rates according to their freq, is an inherently complicated optimisation problem. Eg. The only real distinctions are between achromatic lenses versus apochromatic. It’s impossible to make a lens that focuses precisely for the continuous spectrum.
Compare with sensors that improve a full-stop in noise sensitivity every couple of years.
Because lenses are relatively well understood technology, it makes sense that cameras, allow for different lens options to fully exploit current sensor technology.
Someday software will take care of subject isolation!
Vaseline painted onto the front of the lens works;-) But I would still prefer to choose an appropriate lens to do the job.
+1
Wow, that’s a lot of bullcrap.
I share this opinion. Let me talk a bit about practise: I have a NEX-7 and a bit more than a month ago, I bought the Sigma 30 F2.8 for it. From that day, 95% of my NEX-7 pictures are made with the Sigma. I have two healthy feet and 24 MPix for some cropping.
I would by it with a 36 MPix Sensor to have more cropping potential.
95% of my pictures are taken with Minolta 200mm 2.8 with 2x Tcon other 5% is with minolta 100 mm 2.8 macro.
If I were to use a 35mm 2.0 welded to my camera
that’s a lot of walking and subject matter wouldn’t stand for it and results would be far inferior.
I guess options are a good thing for me anyway
😉
“And you are going to ask yourself why would I carry around extra lenses when you get better results with digital zoom.”
Angle of view, anyone?
Spike,
x digital zoom will not give the same visual compression as a longer focal length.
> if you have enough resolution digital zoom is superior
You mean this lens can outresolve the sensor by factor of 2-3 to enable 3x digital zoom? And combined wide-angle-adapter+lens MTF will be within the sensor’s resolution? I wish I saw this figures to buy the story.
If it was an interchangeable lens 35 mm camera I’d buy one right away and forget about a FF DSLR but because it’s only a 35 mm lens camera, it’s no use to me.
Incorrect. If you stand in two different places and frame identically, say, with a 35mm lens and a 90mm lens, the compression will be different. However, if you stand in the SAME place and crop the 35mm shot to match the 90mm lens, the compression will be identical.
– The concepts of ‘compact’ and ‘interchangeable lens’ do not make sense together. And if you go truely compact like Pentax with Q, you are on lost ground.
– I found that the term compact is only useful in terms of ‘pocketable’. Everything above that needs grip and ergonomics, and IQ becomes the most important aspect. The RX1 is marvelous but the compactness doesn’t prove a lot other than technological skill, it is simply too bulky with the lens, although it is the smallest FF camera – and simultaneously: from an ergonomical point of view, it is too small (not ‘grippy’). Canon’s GX1 was considered too bulky, but the RX100 hit the right form factor, for what it is.
– I would have understood a fixed-zoom lens on the RX1, like with RX100, a fixed focal length reduces the potential target group (which is obviously the strategy).
Apart from that, it is great that some companies like Sony are shifting gear in the photo dept and coming up with real innovations. I am still more curious about sensor innovations rather than only focussing on form factor.
My answer was YES. However I would prefer built-in EVF. Another thing: Is the camera too small? I think yes. If you makes lots of photography you need a comfortable grip. For Oly EM-5 there is an additional grip, regarded as eseential by many users. Even the Fuji X-pro1 has one. I own a RX100 and is waiting for a Franiec grip. In the meantime I use a short tripod extension which helps a lot.
If I buy a 2800$ camera it must be ergonomically excellent.
The grip could be some larger. Don’t want to drop a camera like this.
I don’t know anything about the battery, but a some larger battery
and make the grip also some bigger.
Love the concept: compact yet with a potentially very high image quality. There’s also no fussing around with lens changes or zooming – that’s somehow liberating. I’ll consider an RX1 *if* the lens lives up to the Zeiss name.
I think it would go well with the standard 18-55mm kit lens.
I like it as it is, with fixed lens. If the image quality lives up to the expectations, it will be a best-seller among amateur and professional photographers.
I had to pinch myself this morning to make sure I wasn’t dreaming, when I seen the photo. And Then I read the post and knew I was awake. I wish it was real I would purchase one.
Andrea that is what everyone was waiting for even if then are not Sony diehards.
A NEX FF camera would filling the gaps of NEX-7 and Sony knew that if they release a NEX-FF camera I can assure to you that most of the people would ignore A99.
For me is quite a disappointment because if the NEX-FF would arrived now in 6 months time would be cheaper and with better firmware, then I would have my opportunity to buy the camera.
At the moment I cannot afford a very expensive toy among others here.
Well the show is tomorrow morning let’s us see the outcome.
A) You don’t have to buy it
B) It’s a balsy camera that starts to intrude on some very amazing cameras
C) I like having MORE different cameras v.s. less.
I for one, hell, there are SO many amazing cameras out there I’m having a hard time even thinking of my dream setup. I really think this camera could be my everyday street cam, and then perhaps a D600 with a nice tele for any sports/action stuff. That could very well last me the REST of my life.
Who doesn’t want THAT!!
This is an awesome piece of engineering, but I doubt most people will want to spend their entire camera budget on something that only does one focal length. I’m also not seeing “Steadyshot Inside” which nukes the APS-C to Fullframe jump advantage anyway in terms of most uses…
Perhaps this was just too easy for them not to try, seeing as they make the electronics capable of doing 24MP for the NEX-7 already and now with the new sensor for A99 on their hands…
I agree with FredA, the size of the lenses would be huge and they probably can’t afford to design a whole new lens line anyway…
FF NEX with EVF and 4 small ok primes: 24mm, 35mm, 50mm, 85mm
That is all Sony has to make first.
People will use adapters and other lenses for the rest.
Sony could add lenses later, no hurry for that.
Expensive Zeiss lenses could also come later.
Having to introduce a new line of lenses would be a big risk for Sony – even if only 4. Sony could in fact do fine just introducing an ILS camera as it is and rely on adaptors.
NEX lenses will work in crop mode. A-mount will utilize the image-circle of the full-frame although being quite a bit larger. And others that enjoy m-mount and manual lenses will use the camera as a digital back.
That ought to be plenty incentive for the business managers to consider.
I’m sorry but screw the cheap lenses
If a camera is going to cost $3,000 USD the fast expensive lenses need to come first.
35,50,85 f/1.4 and 16-35, 24-70, 70-200/f2.8 and other standard pro lenses like that
Well you can wait for Canon (2 crop lenses now for EOS-M?) or Nikon, but you might be waiting a long time.
Sony are laying down the technical and marketing groundwork to commercialize the technology.
p.s. I think it’s obvious as a COMPANY they have to be careful not to sell things that make other products in their lineup obsolete instantly. I think clearly, a FF mirrorless WITH all the lenses available to the A99….pretty much makes the a99 obsolete.
You think Sony, with all the engenerring prowess in the world can’t put an EVF on the body?
You think Sony, who is advancing camera tech faster than anyone else in the world right now, can’t make it an interchangable lense camera?
Please, they can do whatever they want. We just have to deal with it, for better or for worse.
Sony’s Marketing people have already made they own polls and they don not wait for SAR’s poll results,
It appears to be that we have a new R-mount FF lenses coming out from Sony and Zeiss along with RX1, which is an ILCamera by itself! That’ is why the street price between a Leica X2 and M9
Remember that CZ is supposed to announce new lenses for mirror-less cameras.
Giusto Andrea?
But who has Sony asked?
I guess this RX1 is maybe from asking just people in Japan or something.
Sony could easy just made some design prototypes and then made
a poll and ask everyone interesting in the products.
It is strange. Almost like “we can’t tell Canon/Nikon about what we
plan to make so we can’t ask oure customers.”
I believe that is old thinking.
Just ask and make, then customers will buy alot 🙂
They asked photographers.
ILC with full frame is coming in 2013 – that’s been rumored for quite some time already. For now we got FF compact – and honestly, if I’d spend 3000$ on a portable camera: I’d pick this one over NEX any time night and day.
Less issues, much more portable, excellent lens-sensor combo (yay for aligning microlenses to one specific prime!), something ILCs hardly can compete with.
yeah, right…. of course you won’t buy it!
–
Ok. I hope you are right about 2013 🙂
It just doesn’t make sens , if Sony is afraid to release an FF nex so they can sell a99 , wouldn’t they make more money with the nex then compeating with canikon in the dslr market.?
JO-NO!
It is the forpost and tester for comming
nex-ff vg30-camcorder a99 and maybe, maybeeeeeee
a new camcorder body like MINI F3/fs700
if::
-4:2:2 10bit minimum ( 12 bit yes)
-4k/2k
-GLOBAL SHUTTER ( we have 2013 soon not 1774)
-hig bitrate
-big 7 in ch high res monitor
-viwfinder
– zeiss anamorphic lenses 35 and 50
– mini-res/other formats-recorder
3990 euro… dollars..pessetas chongingsoles.. NOT ONE MORE.
the rx1 would be a hit if i get it
-chanable lenses
-a second good monitor
-all gear and not stand in rain because next sys is incoming
but bud budy…
is this a beginnig APS-C P A R A D I S E ???
mention that.
No one read this? New mirorless Zeiss camera system:
http://www.dpreview.com/news/2012/09/07/Carl-Zeiss-preparing-Distagon-55mm-F1-4-for-Canon-Nikon-lenses-for-mirrorless-system-cameras
I think you read between the lines something that’s just not there.
Copied form dpreview: Photokina 2012: Carl Zeiss will show prototypes of a 55mm F1.4 Distagon prime lens for DSLRs and the FIRST lenses for mirrorless system cameras.
Actually it does not say ….more lenses for MSC!
@LEdgar: I agree
all it says is that Zeiss will release more lenses for mirrorless cameras – probably first will go for Sony, then some manual focus for M-mount and possibly others (m4/3?). Nothing about Zeiss starting it’s own camera system.
I believe this will be lenses for FF NEX
I voted yes, but in truth it would depend on the lenses and not Sony’s promise of some vague lens posted on a roadmap but real quality lenses fully able of rendering high IQ photos from one of the incredible full-frame Sony sensors.
Today’s sensors and more so tomorrows will offer fantastic resolution and personally I’m not will to invest money in sub-par optics like most of the E-Mounts on the market so far.
We need lenses that can do the job well above 36 plus MP’s.
I believe, that from Sony Marketing dept. point of view RX1 is a PROBLEM. Simply because the idea of such a camera means no extra accessories and no extra lens is needed and even possible. So out of the box more or less acceptable IQ. And the people who will buy it, will not buy A99, FF nex, or so. And no expensive e-mount FF lens. And no adapter e-mount ot A-mount for putting A-mount lenses. So, selling RX1 is probably accounted in sony as losses of the future sales. Therefore sony simply put the expected future sales losses amount (like 1000+ usd) to the price of the RX1. But is seems obvious, sony did not aim to sell RX1 hot.
Almost 3000$ camera “accounted for losses” – ROTFL. I’ll likely generate more income then any NEX out there, as it happens that people extremely rarely buy more then 1 lens for body – and it’s even more rare to buy more then 2 lenses. Meanwhile pure income per unit sold is by far greater for this one then it’ll be for NEX or Alpha – simply because Sony charges “premium” price as there’s no existing competition what so ever.
It’s a win-win for them.
I would perhaps buy it if it had a 50mm 1.2 fixed lens, but 35mm is simply too wide especially with FF
A 50mm 1.2 covering a full image-circle is by design a large and heavy lens (eg Rokkor MC 50/1.2). It ought to be obvious why they chose a lens with rangefinder like parameters.
At 2 pm, 75% or 1,086 of the readers said “yes I would buy it.”
Sorry, but you are liars!
The RX-1 is a very very expensive camera for a small target group. It´s ridiculous even to dream that 75 % of Sonyalpharumors readers would buy such a camra!
You dind’t get it. They would buy an interchangeable version! Not the current RX1!!!
Ok. You beleive, 75 % of your readers would buy a 3000 euro full frame evil?
No, of course not. I know that 75 percent would be inetrested to buy it. But it doesn’t mean the buy it for real when the camera will be here. They all have wifes to care of 🙂
We would buy a ~2000 euro full frame evil BODY
keep in mind the RX-1 price comprehends a 35/2 Zeiss lens, most likely a close relative of the contax-zeiss sonnar 35/2 in design.
Definitely not.
EVIL cameras are supposed to be small toy cameras for newbies or people who just want to take an occasional shot without carrying too much weight. It doesn’t make any sense to make a pro EVIL camera.
The bodies are too small for serious work (uncomfortable to handle), the lenses like 70-200 would still be the same size, rediculous on a small body… no PDAF = no action photography… and so on.
and where did you find that definition of EVIL camera???? concept is old but the tech didn’t allow it. EVIL is another take on camera the same way as is RF or SLR, it’s not about being a ‘toy’ system or a ‘pro’ system.
It’s simple logic.
Does it make sense to put a large FF lens on a small body? And if you add an external flash… well, it won’t be light or small anyway, just uncomfortable to hold.
Or does it make sense to spend a lot of money on a camera without proper autofocusing system? Well, maybe for shooting exclusively stills…
So, no way EVILs are or ever will be a replacement for DSLRs. Different target audience.
Regarding the ‘mount’ version.
Do you really think the space that both parts of the mount consumes is unused?
I don’t think the camera could have been done if so much space would have been occupied by that amount of metal.
Also, regarding EVF (or OVF): As it is a prime and not a zoom, you can easily mount a 24 mm Leica OVF in the hotshoe. No real need for an EVF as it cannot zoom.
For just framing at moderate distances you can certainly just use an optical finder. To see all the camera information including things like focus points, etc. as well as the easier ability to tilt the finder an EVF is useful. Also when shooting macro the EVF is much better, although in many cases the rear LCD could be used for that.
– Yes, I would buy a NEX camera with fullframe sensor and E-mount. IF it was not to expensive, not costing more than RX1 without lens.
– No, I would not buy an E-mount camera looking like RX1 with no built in EVF, too small overall, not ergonomical with no grip, too few external controls and connections.
How will you know if it’s costing more then RX1 without lens? Care to explain your secret knowledge?
Thank you admin to open such poll, and show the poll result to impress Sony 😀
No, I would probably not want to buy a system camera without a choice of lenses.
I might consider a Leica replacement, but would want a built-in EVF. However, autofocus is nice to have, and would require a new mount. The E-mount might serve, but all existing lenses would not cover an FF sensor. And since lens prices are almost stable while cameras become obsolete quickly, it would not make sense to buy a body before lenses are available.
If Sony wants to build an excellent FF mirrorless without offering a whole set of lenses, a fixed lens is a good idea. On my NEX, I use the 24/1.8 most of the time anyway.
Am I the only one who misses a nice bridge camera like Sony’s R1, but this time optimized for DOF?
Mirrorless are current bridge cameras, something placed between real SLRs and tiny compacts.
And they do offer nice control over DoF.
DoF is property of a lens not a camera
here we go… please RTFM and keep it away from SAR.
You are so wrong.
yes, wrong and correct, but you know what I meant 😉
DoF depends on both: camera and lens. (to be more specific: lens aperture and camera sensor size)
And as I said: Mirrorless usually (minus Nikon 1 and Pentax Q) with typical lenses offer quite good control over depth of field. Even better if you buy lenses aimed towards offering you thin DoF (eg. SEL 50 f/1.8)
yep, I guess it’s really hard to pick a system which would work best for all situations. On one side I understand needs of portrait photographers for shallow DoF and on the other side there are photographers who’d like to get as much DoF as possible. Is there even a format which could be considered as the best of both worlds? is it 35mm format or APS?
There isn’t one really. It mostly depends who you ask. For me APS-C is fine, though sometimes I wish I’d have something like 1″ sensor with f/0.95 lens for low-light shooting with lots of nice depth of field. On the other hand though – I can stop-down and take advantage from better ISO performance… it’s not that easy, really 😉
yep, I know what you mean. but still medium format is something what has always interested me, it’s the detail you can get out of it. have a friend who uses for landscapes only MF. I’d love to have a full frame mirrorless system only because of the legacy glass lying around me in shops with used gear. the other day I’ve seen contax g system with both 45 and 90 lens for £400 in excellent condition. if there was a FF NEX with peaking these lenses would be all I would ever want or need. they’re tiny, light and provide excellent IQ. The crop factor is different beast though, it’s better to have lenses designed for crop factor (Sony’s 24 and 50 lenses and all fuji’s XF lenses).
Sensor actually does nothing to the DoF. DoF is actually depend on Lens focal length and aperture. all the sensor do is only cropping the image projection. an identical lens focal length and F stop, in a larger sensor, will get a wider angle of view with same depth of field. just like to put a summilux 1.4/50 on a Nex-7, we will get an identical depth of field compared to M9, with more tele angle of view.
Add a built in EVF and I’d put in a pre-order. Maybe next time.
This camera much more then EVF needed moveable screen. On NEX I never miss EVF, but use the tiltable screen constantly.
This camera would also benefit from the OSS in lens.
And yes, grip from NEX-5n would be much more convenient to handle.
regardless of sensor size, if your main design objective is to create a compact system, then it should be compact, this is not, this is just design for the sake of design; it seems contrived and almost ridiculous…
Digital Rev TV is a respected source for f–k all when it comes to gear. No mistake, it is amusing twaddle, but twaddle none the less.
Hmmm, I’m starting to like this thing’ the more I think about it. The price is still hard to grasp and I doubt it will really be a hit for the masses.
Can’t wait to order one of these! 35mm ZE is on my 5d about 90% of the time. Son’y new sensor will slay the 5d2/3. Make another with a 100mm lens and I’ll drop all of my Canon gear.
Built in EVF means a bigger body. Personally if its like the add-on VF for the Nex, that would be ideal since unlike a built-in EVF, the add-on is tilt-able making it easy to get low angle shots.
Come on, this is obliviously tech demo, relax peoples.
I don’t really understood why peoples are so pissed of this camera. It’s easy to read from betweens of lines that there is full frame NEX coming and reason why it’s not coming now is obliviously that they don’t have lenses to it. (http://www.dpreview.com/news/2012/09/07/Carl-Zeiss-preparing-Distagon-55mm-F1-4-for-Canon-Nikon-lenses-for-mirrorless-system-cameras)
When is the official release with specs?
4-5 in the monring london time.
Thanx
so I’ll have my morning coffee with SAR’s report tomorrow and evening coffee with Apple’s – sounds like a good day for technology
I would throw my money on Sony. If they make an RX10 with interchangeable lenses. Same design but Aps-c size on sensor, and price like Nex-7.
Once again it’s always strange to read the “I want a flip screen!” comments considering the plethora of cameras that already have flip screens and the basic fact that the point of this camera is to be a bare bones small camera.
Unfortunately, due to the FF sensor the lens is anything but small. Maybe the same concept with an APS sensor could be much more compact? I would love a digital Contax T3 but due to physics and current technology I guess a digital camera that compact is not possible.
As much as I lusted for the Fujifilm X100 and as much as I respect this, I have had too many of my non-interchangeable lens cameras get dust on the sensor and the only way to remove it is to send the camera into the manufacturer.
At least Sony seems to be innovating and not stuck in the old mold of what a digital camer should be or look like.
I think David Kilpatrick said it correctly. There are always people who purposely complain Sony doesn’t listen. And when they listen to them, they can’t complain yet they won’t buy what is made.
But it’s good marketing for Sony. I don’t have a wife/kids where my money would flow to but I am not yet ready spending that much as an amateur.
These (RX1/RX100) are some of those products that ‘we listen to our customers, so too bad, trolls, get a life’
Worst case, they can be made-to-order or low inventory stock 🙂 It’d be nice to see it in display cases though..
Would we buy it? I answered YES. A bit too quickly?
With what lenses? Sony couldn’t make the NEX-7 happy with M-lenses. This might not be either. Which leaves you with much bigger lenses that would look strange on such a tiny body. That’s one issue.
Then there’s the lack of grip. Being able to design a tiny camera doesn’t mean you *have* to all the way at all costs. Ergonomically, this could be issue number 2.
Issue number 3 is that alternatives exist. Grab yourself a Sigma DP1 + DP2 and you have plenty of change plus two incredible high IQ
cameras. No swapping lenses. Heck, no buying lenses. The Sigmas are an interesting option if you can live with the limitations.
So would I buy one? Oh YEAH 😉 Reason is one thing, lust is another!
The proof is in the pudding… rather, the votes. See the huge reversal of opinion simply by having ILC option? $2,800 bucks for a fixed lens compact camera?? Even with full frame, forget it! Get the RX100 (which is also overpriced but at least no $2,800 USD). Besides, the RX1 is only a prelude to a NEX full frame equivalent with interchangeable lens capability. The RX1 is only testing the waters on size, market reception, technical doability, etc. It’s a stepping stone. Wait until 2013 and be happy with the NEX-5R or NEX-7.
The point is the price，I would buy RX1 at the price of $800 without interchangeable E-mount…but if RX1 WITH interchangeable E-mount，I guess more people will buy it in a higher price for their leica or zeiss lens
Since RX1 is a fixed lens camera and the lens sticks out quite a bit, there should have been a grip (like the NEX) for better handling.
When you steal another person’s photo from fredmiranda.com, at least you should credit him.
http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1147292/20#10952474
John. I have the permission from the author! You can contact him at fredmiranda to ask him.
+1 You should always credit the author.
The Sony fanboys say that is a $2,000 lens so yeah, if the body only is around $800 I’d get it. Otherwise, no.
$800 for a pocket size full frame camera using a current FF sensor? Being that a 8 year old 5DC goes for that price, who wouldn’t.
@ EH43
Go somewhere else and troll what you are best at!
A FF pocket size body for $800??
Fanboy, ask your CaNikon to make one for you!!
IF you take all the camera mfctr together they’re getting closer to what I would like to see.
full-frame
interchangeable lenses
mirrorless
flip-LCD
real dials
First one that can do all that takes my money from me.
i will never use pocket camera to capture any 12x8m print. And for me, 35mm sensor is not really necessary to be in my all round pocket camera to take daily snapshot which only shows as 900×860 pixels images on facebook or such things.
I was relieved at first, and then found out it’s a fake. Before people jump into (the wrong) conclusions, I suggest to put the words ‘FAKE’ in front of pictures like these!
right. Will do it next time!
Thnx Andrea! Keep up the good work!
well, I’m glad it’s FAKE, because I’d prefer a dedicated 35/2 fixed on that body size.
and yes, I’d pay for it as much as I would pay for D600+35/2 (or 5Dmk2+35/2) combo, maybe couple of bucks more.
Put in a nice EVF and I order immediately.
Still waiting for news of a Sony 36 megapixel still imager….. With no AA. Perhaps 4k too! That (or at least the stills part) would make me move up from my 850).
The price is right, but EFVless is a big boo. Good job, Sony.
Superb…
By not listening to self appointed guardian angels of photography, by trying some thing cool, you have proved that you have the balls to challenge the existing system.
And BTW, I am pretty sure this camera will be sold like hot cakes, and I will see even DK himself publishing a review soon. 😀
/Aj
With Sony record for introducing (not) NEX lenses, when they keep coming up with new bodies, but not lenses (finally with UWA after 2-3 years), it is easier for a SONY to bring out RX100 and now RX1. They would have to come up with yet another mount lenses, which they are super slow and unwilling to do with. And these lenses would be huge in size, which will defeat the small body idea. So for Sony, it is much easier to produce a body with a lens item, like RX100 and RX1 and then keep coming with new models every year. And not be concerned with developing and spending money on lenses. Just keep coming out with new cameras.
If someone forced me to superglue one lens on my nikon D3 (I only shoot primes), my heart would immediately vote for the 85mm f1.4. I have a 35mm which I love (its a 1970s radioactive thorium glass one) but for people photography, 85mm is a great length. the shortest lens I would consider would be a 50mm but my heart would win and it would be the 85. For me, its the wrong lens for me to even consider it (but it could have been worse, they could have put a zoom on it)
For landscapers and tourists, they prefer wide angle to capture scenery and landscape. Tele is a bit limiting, but good for bokeh.
I explain, why a voted “NO”
This camera has no any viewfinder and without it it can not be a pro-camera, for professional use. Moreover, too less buttons and wheels for control. For me it’s just another NEX but for crazy money.
I can smell the Sony next APS-C fixed lens model, that will be RX 10.
Thanks Admin for posting the link to the article on photoclubalpha.com:
http://www.photoclubalpha.com/2012/09/10/sony-aims-for-the-sky-rx1/
Interesting to read about how Sony is doing things internally i.e. CyberShot team vs NEX team etc.
Sam
FUJI X-E1 should be about the same quality as this dream camera. XE-1 has EVF, is cheaper, and you can order one now!
There is NO reason to be full size with f2.0. DOF is the same as APS-C with F1.4.
Its an ultimate available light P&S style party camera!
FUJI make FF faster.
andrea, are camera RX1 can use special wide/tele conventer like SEL 16mm/2.8 or like fujix100?
A cheaper RX1? Yes, I would definitely buy it!! I looks so awesome. Good job Sony
I voted NO because I don’t have the money to buy it. I think the price is right, even for a fixed lens. Interchangeable is better, of course.
IF it is true,
I believe the body will be priced at $2799… and $1399 of the 35/2.
uh… maybe the compact one is better…
but anyway, I can not afford it XD…
I’m gonna go with NEX 6
The problem with that Photoshop image is that the lens would not be that small if it was interchangeable lens system ..
“IF the RX1 was released as an exchangeable lens camera, the 35F2.0 lens that is on the camera now would have to be planned as a retrofocal lens in stead. Think something about 1.5x larger in diameter and 1.5x longer than the existing 24/1.8 for APS. Slightly smaller than the 18-200, if you’re going for image quality rather than compactness. If you’re going for all out compactness, like the 50/1.8OSS – but a centimeter larger in diameter.”
Would have been a perfect camera IF it had interchangeable lenses… FAIL.