As you know both the A99 and the NEX-6 will feature a new OLED 2,36k dot viewfinder. Photorumors (found via Fujirumors) reports that Fuji is going to announce a new X-E1 camera tomorrow that will feature exactly the same A99 and NEX-6 viewfinder! The viewfinder has an amazing 1:5000 contrast ratio. Sony is not only sharing their sensor technology to Nikon (speak the D800 for example) to Pentax (upcoming K-3) but also the viewfinder technology. Another step into the complete Sony world domination? 🙂
Anyway, this means that we have to follow tomorrows Fuji announcement to get an idea of the quality of the viewfinder. The X-E1 will cost almost exactly like the NEX-6 (a bit less than $1000).
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Meantime the NEX-7 body price at Amazon remains $1199 (Click here) but it’s is getting lower on eBay. $1099 at [shoplink 13758 ebay]Arphoto[/shoplink] or $1.119,71 at [shoplink 13757 ebay]Bigvalue[/shoplink]
116 Responses
So is the NEX-6 getting an EVF that is better than that in the NEX-7?
I’m wondering the same thing. I just bought the NEX 7.
Why? With the NEX-6 coming?
Yeah, makes zero sense to buy the NEX-7 now.
why? The nex-6 might have the 16 mp sensor and the new app stuff, but beside that it is less in every other respect.
No.
Better build, 24MP, Tri Nav
Tri-nav, lol as if that is a real thing ~
What’s so surprising if Nex-6 has better EVF than Nex-7? Technology moves on ….. It’s been an year
Do you see that as a problem for some reason?
As soon as you buy digital technology it’s aready out of date. It’s way of the World.
“sharing their sensor technology” – It’s all about the money, make no mistake about it.
You mean Fuji had to pay Sony to use their technolgy Dan? Say it ain’t so…
That’s the point. They aren’t sharing anything, it’s being licensed.
If Fuji are getting Sony’s EVF, perhaps Sony should get some of Fuji’s lenses put in E-mount.
And Nikon,Pentax,Olympus,Leica lenses as well.
😉
This is a win for each partner. Current Sony EVFs suck and current Fuji EVFs are slow.
This will definitely improve the image in the Sony viewfinders. They truly do suck. Where Sony can help is in the refresh and data transfer rates.
No they don’t. The EVF in my A77 is fine, FAR superior to my A700.
Perhaps the EVF is superior for what you’re shooting, but try to take on some fast action with it, and your mind might change.
there’s no problem shooting fast action unless you’re waving the camera like a mad man!
I shoot sports a lot, and even if the sport is very fast the camera doesnt move a lot… what are you shooting?
Definately, shoot football, volleyball, dance, basketball,lacrosse and baseball. I have never had a problem with the EVF. The only time I see an issue is very low light than motion flickers signifiantly but I cannot see with the OVF in those instances. The only time I find the OVF better than the EVF is in really bright sunny conditions.
No idea what you are talking about.
I shot the MTB world chanpionship bit in fort william back in june and I found the A77 really appropriate for fast subjects. I found the 12fps overkill actually, too speedy!
I take action-photos of flying birds, such as ducks and seagulls, in short distances of 4-6 meters with zoom lenses, and it’s no problem at all to do that with my Sony Alpha A55 EVF!
Obviously he speaks about EVFs in 10 year old prosumer cameras
Agree, or better yet he doesn’t have a sony camera with the OLED EVF.
The current Sony EVFs are great if you want to look at a video instead of an somewhat realistic looking image.
Get real jerk boys
I did not mean to upset you. Obviously you do not like them. Thankfully, I like using a camera with an EVF or at least Sony’s. I do not have any experience with other EVF’s.
So which SONY camera with EVF do yo have?
If you do want to see realistic image — give up the OVF: with 2 your eyes you’ll see 3D picture with extreme clarity. But if you want to control final result — the EVF the only way to go, OVF is kinda useless for this task. And if you still didn’t get what the VF is designed for: to control final result, not to see “realistic picture”, you fool 😉
I think this is Sony’s real strategy. Whatever camera you’re going to buy, there’s going to be a Sony component in it.
mmmm . . . not Sony’s ONLY strategy
Yes, not their only strategy. It’s one of those cooperate and compete relationships similar to how Samsung provides some components for Apple products.
If that’s true, it actually might make the Fuji XE-1 the more attractive offering, since the lens roadmap looks fantastic. All they need is to introduce focus peaking and I’d be tempted to make the jump:
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2012/06/fujifilm-x-series-lens-roadmap.jpg
At the rate Fuji’s going, I wouldn’t be surprised if they introduce a FF sensor in their mirrorless cams before Sony does.
There’s so much more to cameras than the viewfinder and lenses. Think focusing, by FAR Fuji’s weakest point.
Well, focusing* is not something that the NEX line is know for excelling at either. Sigh.
*AF
Don’t bring reality here.
Ideal design, but I need to FF.
same here. if fuji goes FF with its sensor tech and focus peaking it’s gonna be epic.
then you are actually talking about SONY, mate! not FUJI..lol..wait for NEX 9..
FF, and no video.
Perfect!! An OLED EVF with a contrast ratio of 1:5000 have a dynamic range a bit over 12 EV: very good indeed!!
If this EVF will be be fast we have a game changer.
Very “useful”, given that human eye can only barely see 7EV on the same picture. 🙂
7EV – Total and utter rubbish.
It’s not total rubbish. People confuse the DR of the retina on a focussed spot, with the DR of the eye as a system. For a single focussed spot, the DR is of the order of 6-7ev. However, as the eye refocusses on different parts of the image (and eyes are always on the move and we get the illusion of having much more of the view in focus than is the case) there’s a constant adjustment, chemically and via opening and closing the iris (in the same way a camera can adjust its aperture), so the eye’s ultimate DR is more like 20ev, but not for a single, static image.
As evidence, just see how easily the eye is dazzled by a bright light (having just cycled down a hedged lane with a low, very bright sun I can attest to that). However, mask out the direct light and you can see the shadow areas. However, the eye will not be able to see the whole range in one go. A modern sensor will beat the eye’s DR on a static image hands down, although if you can avoid the dazzling effects, you could get the illusion of a lot more.
It is complete bullshit.
Iris takes about a second to respond. Chemical changes in retina take TENS OF MINUTES. Dark/light adaptation is global across eye. There is no way human eye can do HDR. There is no innervation that could do it, too.
Retina has huge DR over typical silicon sensor because it has receptors of 2 types (cones and rods), each of which has NON-LINEAR response (which improves DR too).
>As evidence, just see how easily the eye is dazzled by a bright light
This again disproves your point – bright sunlight after darkness will be painful. I would be happy if my eye could adapt to sunlight in 1/10 of second.
You confuse eye lens performance in backlight with DR of retina. The problem you cited is the lens flare of our eyes.
As OLED works differently from LCD (no backlight) and only emitting when current is applied,the contrast ratio has to be infinity (peak brightness / 0)
All oled phones have infinite contrast ratio !
That’s a misunderstanding of DR. Dynamic range is the ratio between the brightest and darkest levels where differences in intensity can be perceived (or displayed in this case). Thus the DR of an output device is the ratio between the brightest output level and the lowest level which actually outputs light. So even if an output device is capable of a “perfect” black (not actually achievable), that’s not the level that matters as it doesn’t allow for the distinguishing of intensity. The important one is the lowest output intensity level as that does allow a difference in intensity to be displayed.
OLED can give absolute blacks 0.0 cd/m2 .While good blacks helps in contrast,so does bright whites.So may be the new evf is more brighter.
Actually, the contrast ratio of the OLED panel as used in for example the A77 and NEX 7 is listed as 10,000:1 in the specsheets. How much of that is used by the camera, I don’t know.
What i heard of the NEX 7 viewfinder it is no OLED Display as you might think, but a LCD with full OLED Backlight.. whyever?!… I think they cant make OLEDs with that pixel density….
I guess it’s AMOLED that has no backlight.
“OLED” simply describes that backlight is provided by LED with organic component, rather than pure Si/As/Ge/Ga diode
evf with rangefinder lenses are junk at night. you have to have an ovf or hybrid ovf/evf. while dslr lenses, the aperture remains wide open until you click the shutter, rangefinder lenses like m-mount leicas zeiss and cv are compleltly manual and whatever aperture it is set at is what it is. now if you shoot in any lighting conditions less than bright daylight, you will have to have the lens set at “wide open” to see any detail in the evf viewfinder, or else you will see a dark blob in the evf. no good for zone focusing. no good when stopping down. no good if you want everything in the picture to be sharp. evf and manual lenses no good.
Congrats, you managed to mixed reasons and consequences then make consequences from your bullshit.
Fujifilm rocks!
So, the original rumour was that the NEX-6 EVF was supposed to be inferior to the A77/NEX-7 EVF (“Compared to the NEX-7 it has an EVF with less resolution”), but now it is apparently the same EVF that will be in the A99, which would make it superior.
I think some of your sources need to be axed or have less credence given to their leaks in the future.
BTW I’m not moaning about the EVF, the higher spec the better (even if it means upsetting NEX-7 users), but clearly some of your sources have not given entirely accurate info.
Hi! The rumor about a lower resolution finder is quite old (a couple of months). And as usual until 2-3 months before the announcement there are two three prototypes of the same cameras. Than there is one big meeting and managers decide which one goes into production. They have choosen for the higher resolution EVF. That’s the story. Believe me or not 🙂
Dang and I just bought a nex7 less then a month ago! 🙁
Forget the NEX-7, it’s not worth the asking price.
The NEX7 still has a slightly better sensor than the NEX6 with respect to DR and it has more MP to boot. Plus the NEX6 still lacks the twin dials that the NEX7 has.
You don’t know if the NEX-7 has better DR. I guess the newer sensor has the better DR.
1) Sony 16 mpix APC-S sensor had always had better DR compared to their 24 mpix sensor, see NEX-5/Nikon D7000/Pentax K-5 vs Sony A77/Nex-7.
2) NEX-6 DOES have 2 dials. Actually 3, counting mode dial.
I was referring to the older NEX5N – http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Cameras/Compare-Camera-Sensors/Compare-cameras-side-by-side/%28appareil1%29/736|0/%28brand%29/Sony/%28appareil2%29/737|0/%28brand2%29/Sony
But yes didn’t see that the NEX6 had two dials also.
>Sony 16 mpix APC-S sensor had always had better DR compared to their 24 mpix sensor,
Bullshit. It’s just many people aren’t smart enough to measure DR of sensor with different pixel counts and ISO markings.
Do you hang on to rumours for quite a while before posting them? You first reported about NEX-6 on 8th August – less than a month ago. I would have thought the final spec would have been finalised by then.
Since you’re so well endowed, just buy another NEX 6. In your own words, “Stop being a tightarse”
WTF are you talking about? I don’t own an NEX-7 (I have an NEX-5), and I will probably be buying an NEX-6.
Nex 6 compares to nex 7 :
Better EVF
New flash hot shoe
Physical shoot mode circle
Phase detection AF
Appstore
Wifi
Cheaper
Even better sensor (not confirmed)
What the f*** is sony thinking?
I just bought a nex7 3 weeks ago
They were thinking they should improve and evolve their products.
but it is just too soon. Let alone, the NEX 7 stock shortage issue which make people hard to get NEX 7 before July or June. At least in my country. And after 3 months or so, they release the new NEX 6 that might be better than NEX 7. Just kinda disappointing.
Really astonishing logic. Sony improved their cameras by releasing cheaper and better cameras than last year, and someone is disappointed why they they are releasing cheaper and better cameras. LOL
its not as if your nex7 is suddenly a piece of shit… go take some pictures and quit your moaning. the next time you upgrade there will be some great options available. Whats the big deal?
I challenge you to take better pictures then other photographers using lesser tools than you. the nex7 is more than enough to make great photographs. seriously. please stop complaining. I shoot 2-3 events weekly as well as models and commercial product photography using the age old A850 and D3X- I’m not crying every year a better camera comes out… the A850 and D3X are still GREAT tools.
For the same price the X-E1 looks much better than the NEX-6! Better than the NEX-7 anyway.
_Looks_ definitely better, but does it _work_ better?
For sure, it’s a proper camera and it seems Fuji figured out how to do AF properly.
Should probably wait for reviews & real world tests before claiming they’ve sorted out the AF (& quirks, slow right speeds, etc).
When Fuji finally get that right then I’m definitely buying – it’s just so far there’s been too many flaws.
Apparently no video?
5000:1 contrast ratio is not at all “amazing” for OLED, OLEDs usually produce unlimited contrast ratios (or sometimes measured as 10000000:1) as black pixels are truly black.
Huh! Fuji is using Sony’s technology for upcoming model in sensor and evf and still cheaper than NEX-6… what does that mean? By the way Fuji looks a lot better in eyes to nex 6….
I for one would hate the day that Sony has total world domination… would be worse than Apple world domination. So I’m glad they are selling tech to let other companies use it in competition
Apple and Sony (Sony to a lesser extent) have their core businesses out in the open. If you want to talk about global domination, you have to talk about a corporate structure like Samsung, who have their businesses hidden by dozens and dozens of hidden arms.
Apple are peanuts with their computers and iPhones in comparison. Until Apple own a country like Samsung do, they re nothing but a tech company.
Anyway, as long as this EVF is better than the NEX 7, I can’t wait to see what Fuji and Sony can do.
What happend to Fuji Hybrid viewfinder?
The Fuji hybrid viewfinder is probably far more expensive to make than a straight EVF – and it is probably not so useful for zoom lenses.
It happened to be a useless crap, just a gimmick with close to zero usefulness as a VF (framing control, focus control, exposure control).
http://m.dpreview.com/news/2012/01/27/MicroOLED
100,000:1 ?
“…for military applications.”
” This makes the 5.4 million-pixel 0.61 inch diagonal microdisplay most suitable for defense, medical and professional camera applications that demand sharp images with very smooth transitional tones.
High contrast (maximum 100,000:1) and high uniformity (96 per cent) also play key roles in picture quality” 🙂
Please Sony put this into A99.. maybe via firmware update!? 😉
So which is the better camera system the X-E1 or NEX-6 ?
Better for whom?
I suspect they are both fine cameras – each will have its own strengths and weaknesses – some will prefer one and some will prefer the other.
It’s two different weapons. Sony sensor VS Fuji sensor. A limited choice of great lenses for fuji VS more all purpose one for Sony. With the announced pankage zoom, the Sony is more pocketable. A more old school look and feel for Fuji, with speed and aperture ring VS menu-driven camera for Sony.
I guess video is better on Sony, and packed with more user-friendly scene mode, like panorama, handled twilight, HDR.
BTW, it’s good to have such choice.
Menu driven? Still with that crap? Look there, there is a Fn button just like big SLR, you get two dials and a mode dial. I won’t be seeing menu diving just like the NEX-7. And who knows..maybe this NEX-6 gets the A-mount/RX100 interface..less menu diving.
Okay, better than my 5n, so I’m still in the NEX-6 camp.
Just got to be extra nice for Santa.
If the XE-1 has the IQ of its bigger brother then I would wager the XE-1 will deliver top image quality especially with the superb lenses currently on offer. (Fuji 35mm f1.4, 18mm f2 etc).
While I hated the NEX menu system, the NEX6 seems to have a Fn button like on the DSLR line up which I find infinitely useful.
Also I use so called ‘fluff’ features like Auto HDR and Panaroma mode quite often and frankly the results are very useable IMO.
Other than that the AF speed of the Sony should be noticeably better than the Fuji if Sony can nail the hybrid AF properly.
IQ of fuji? Haven’t you tired yet of praising this crap again and again? Their filter destroys details and color accuracy for the sake of lower _mean_ luminance noise. Then they apply some image restoration technics in their JPG engine. Expectedly, it won’t work good enough and you see smearing. Or IQ = smearing?
Now, just add focus peaking, Fuji, please!
+1000. Please give us the peaking function Fuji.
now… if only they improved the AF Speed hmmm
When it comes to OLED development, all of the Japanese manufacturers are joining together to compete against Samsung/LG.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/06/25/us-sony-panasonic-oled-idUSBRE85O05R20120625
Good!
The perfect camera always comes next year.
I guess we will see a updated NEX7 soon also.
And than a FF NEX9 maybe… Sony only need to make 3-4 FF E-mount primes.
And later a FF E-mount standard zoom. And later… ok they need
also a FF E-mount lens lineup… FF E-mount never to come?
Time will tell, but I believe more on the E-mount for the future than
the A-mount. That means we sooner or later will see a FF NEX camera.
(Forget camcorders, they are dinosaurs of the old age)
Previous rumors said that A99 has a 3M OLED sensor, now it is 2.3M. Maybe it is same technology but not same size as NEX-7 EVF.
I doubt we see the NEX-7 update until early next year. Then again, just because they announce the NEX-6 next week doesn’t mean we’ll see it for months. Sigh.
Can anybody say what the contrast ratio of the a77/a65 EVF is? How the about a35/37/55/57?
I think I answered my own question:
http://m.dpreview.com/news/2011/12/05/sonyEVFdetails
They claim (and refer to a Sony PDF) stating the a77 evf has 10000:1 contrast ratio. Forgive me if I’m wrong but isn’t that twice as good as 5000:1?
Maybe it’s a typo and the rumor means 50,000:1 ?
The main flaw of the A77 EVF (besides of not being not bright enough in some situations) is not a lack of dynamic range / contrast ratio of the panel but insufficient signal processing of the EVF fed. When you shoot landscape you often have situations when shadowed areas of the viewfinder image are completely dark and have not detail (in opposite to the image captured, which is fine). So you mainly have contours in the viewfinder. When you set the camera on DRO+5 and push the stop down butten on the front of the camera then the viewfinder image is fine too (but the captured image suffers visibly from DRO+5).
This means that properly adjusting the EVF driver signal level under various ambient light conditions will be one of the most important challenges for future EVF cameras. Hopefully a part of it can be controlled by firmware so that A77 can benefit from future improvements.
It is emagin, not Sony oled.
Someting strange in that rumor:
OLED 2,36k dot viewfinder for the A99?
Historically:
Sony A77: 2.36Md (1024 x 768 pixels) XGA OLED 0.5″
Sony A57: 1.44Md ( 800 x 600 pixels) SVGA 0.46″
Sony A55: 0.97Md ( 640 x 480 pixel) SVGA 0.46″
If the A99 has same resolution (2.36Md)…
And I will assume that the size will be bigger than the APSC one (>0.5″)
Then the A99 will have lower resolution than the A77/Nex7 viewfinder… And even less then the accessory EVF that you can put on your Nex3!
I could not imagine Sony going this way…
PS. You should also report 2.39 Million dot (not Kdot)
@admin:
Photorumors reported 2,360k dots in the meanning of 2360k dots (the separation is for thousands, and not a comma)
Please if you could correct the text “2,36K dots”
to: 2360k dots (or similar)
or: 2.36M dots (or similar)
PS. Fujirumors made similar error.
Europe and the Americas use different separators 2.345 in Europe is same as 2,345 in America’s.
Let there be sharing of all the cool tech — kickbutt cameras for all!
But the viewfinder is made by Samsung, no?
This supossedly new EVF will be a success if and only if:
-Much better dynamic range (not clipped highlights or shadows)
-Much lower noise when low light
-Practically zero EVF lag
-No slideshow effect when burst mode
-Better power consumption
One fail = big disaster for Sony. A99 is meant to be a serious camera, so the viewfinder needs to be PERFECT in practical terms.
I don’t give a shit about if EVF CR is 1:2000 or 1:5000. That is more than enough for photography, and then you print it on paper which has CR 1:20. EVF can compress dynamic range anyways, and THIS is where improvement is more important.
Great camera, why not FF?
http://www.mirrorlessrumors.com/and-here-it-is-the-leaked-fuji-x-e1-press-text/
Dpreview writs in the X-X1 preview that it uses the same EVF panel like NEX-7. So this rumor was wrong.
http://www.dpreview.com/previews/fujifilm-x-e1/3
They guess! Read: “is likely the same unit”