I know Nikon guys will hate me because I keep saying the Nikon D800 sensor is from Sony 🙂 But if I am right Sony will release a camera with such a sensor next year! The amazing team from TheCameraStoreTV tried to figure out if that sensor can match the quality of medium format cameras like the Hasselblad H4D-40 ($18.000 on Amazon). Watch the video to find out the answer.
But if you are on hurry I will unveil you the final verdict. The medium format camera still has the edge when it comes to get superb skin tones and dynamic range (particularly in the highlight area). But in terms of resolution the 36 Megpaixel sensor is pretty close, in the shadow area it even beats the Hasselblad and it’s an absolute winner at High ISO.
A look into the future: Sony already officially stated that they are working on 100 megapixel FF sensors. I dont’ need that 🙂
71 Responses
I just read this artikel and Fred Miranda STATED that Nikon uses Sony Exmor sensor.
http://www.fredmiranda.com/5DIII-D800/index_controlled-tests.html
It did have powerful resolving capabilities compared to Canon’s.
And IMHO better colors, if it wasnt plagued by stupid small flaws. Tho Canon is too.. Its lately like no one does some testing before they release product. I mean, seriously how can you miss green tinted LCD?
any more A99 rumors?
What a bunch of douches!
“… and somebody will have the exact same camera. That’s something we can’t have as professionals …”
No wonder, they even have a bunch of apple computers, even though eizo and/or nec monitors and for example the HP dreamcolor laptops have waaaaaaay beter color accuracy than anything else on the market. And the “we need to have SW to sync to an ipad” point is moot. The SW will be out in a couple of months, and I wonder what the art director used a couple of years ago? Surely not an ipad …
Not to mention that they don’t even decide what to shoot, they just do what the art director tells them to do. Dear lord, such people call themselves pros. Glorified monkeys that can technically control a pro camera – just like your average tech savy teenager.
I was just shocked at this. I got published portraits in a local fashion magazine that were made with a KM 7D and nobody even spotted that the skin tones were not MF quality, or whatever this chucks are on about.
/rant off
1+
thay call themselves pros 🙂 huh
Yeah they are so average, and there attitudes seem to suck..face like a slapped arse 🙂 so the have a 30K Hasselblad of course they will take good basic portraits!!
go easy on the pro’s guys lol – just remember, not all pro’s are equal 🙂
No, they’re absolutely correct. When you’re a pro doing high level studio work you do not want your client’s AD seeing you using gear that wasn’t designed for studio shooting. And for better or worse, in the mind of most Art Directors, a DSLR in the studio = amateur. I don’t personally agree with that attitude, but that’s the reality.
The client doesn’t know much about equipment gear and their brands. So that’s a moot point. Only photographers will recognize the difference between a profoto and an alien bee monolight. All the client cares about is the image.
That’s not even remotely true for Art Directors who work on major accounts. That’s the way it is at my ad agency and at every agency I’ve worked for. They hire lots of photographers and will avoid those who aren’t 100% professional in everything they do and in the equipment they use. When you’re working on a multimillion dollar account the stakes are far too high to settle for less. Every competent studio photographer knows this.
Your right, it can be more about perception than reality and that’s not necessarily wrong.
You may be the most talented photographer in a given market but if you don’t present well or you don’t yet have the buzz going around your work then you’re going to have problems with some clients.
Seems as though it would make sense to take some black paint and paint out any information identifying the camera manufacturer and then not worry about penis envy. Just create some mystery. If someone asks what you are using, just say a it’s Krypton 80 MP.
I thought togs were booked on their portfolios… no matter what cam was used to create it.
wow! good video 😀
sony 36 mp sensor??? bahahahah sony cant made nothing good … go canon!!
5dmk3 81 d800 95 nex7 81 😀 lol…
Wait till you see: D3200=82-84 5DMk3=81
Nikon entry-level DSLR beats Canon semi-pro FF DSLR
score comparing just in same camera class 😉
Ok, go and tell DXO… their sensor ranking list compares cameras of different classes.
If Sony uses the 100 megapixel FF sensors they working on as Nokia does with their Nokia 808 Pureview 41 megapixel camera, to downsample to a lower resolution achieving a pinsharp picture, then it could be very interesting!
http://conversations.nokia.com/2012/02/27/nokia-808-pureview-%E2%80%93-revolutionary-camera-technology-great-smartphone/
Exactly, this could be an in camera option. Assists Low light performance etc… The user could choose the level, 12,24,36 mp etc from 100mp sensor
I think the 100MP sensor may work a bit like Foveon which usually touts their sensors as have 3X the effective resolution because the RGB sensors are stacked on top of each other. If I’m not mistaken Sony uses a RGGB bayer pattern if they did a four layer (although clearly not two greens of the same spectrum) that would be an effective ~25MP camera with full color at every sensor point. That would be AMAZING.
Wow, very interesting : Doesn’t it make you mad Sony aren’t using the sensor themselves ? Why next year. They’re producing the goods and letting a main competitor steal all their thunder. How weird …
I agree. I said it before. SONY is soooo stupid :<
Its like you go to a gym for one year and then give the muscles to your competitor to have them implanted. Just plain stupid.
Sony knows there’s not enough users like you and I, but more people who use Nikon cameras meaning more sensor sales. The numbers certainly seem in their favor in economics given how many D800s are getting sold…
Shows they know little about DR, because comparing highlights is mostly comparing jpeg/converter contrast curves and metering, not sensor DR. That shadow DR can easily be shifted to the highlights, having the D800 beat it in both areas at the same time.
heh my thoughts exactly, also as far as I know you’re supposed to expose for highlights and then pull the shadows up, not different way around.. am I wrong?
No, you’re right, that’s what I meant with the DR in the shadows to the highlights.
Just my thoughts too.. I´ve assisted several full time commercial photographers and the most of them dont know a shit.. I get scared.. is it not the proffessionals that should know best??
120% OMG and these are so called pros!!!
Better park my Bugatti which of course makes me alot better driver than the Bentley driver.
And people pay money to these people.
They must read Photography for Dummies.
Prestige means a lot to this kind of crowd/
You do know that the Queen has never farted.
😉
LOL i can’t believe he said that, he can’t have the same camera that someone on the shoot owns? That’s an incredibly pretentious comment. To my eyes the D800 was more than a match and at $20,000 less it’s the clear winner as well.
It sounded strange , but in a way I can understand him. When shot a set like this one, it is a whole entourage there. And a customer may feel better about hiring 10+ people for a job, if he sees that they bring something special in terms of equipment etc.
I also “heard”:
– Tethering is a must.
– Skin tones are important. (makes sense, Interesting in the view that C doesn’t/didn’t shine in this area.)
– The less we have to work with the pictures afterwards the better.
People from Nikon are not angry to admit their d800s sensor comes from Sony, dont be paranoiak, you re wrong!
(especially me coming from A900, im proud of it so far.
It’f funny, that Andrea always has to write “Sony 36 MP sensor” … but in my opinion it’s the big problem of Sony! We can laugh about it, but Nikon sells that D800 really well and probably the D3200 with the 24 MP sensor will also sell good, like the voting in the last article here has shown 😉
And as we know from history, Nikon can get more out of the Sony sensors! So why wait for Sony products with this sensor … cause image quality is the main “feature” of such cameras and the main “advantage” to also improving compact cameras!
Sony has to be very fast with 2-3 products, not everyone waits months and years for a Sony product… especially if you cant buy it months after release! Look like the problem of NEX7 and especially all the better NEX lenses (to be honest, there arent that much) like the 50mm!
To be honest, I planned to buy a Sony product, but probably now I will go with the Olympus OM-D EM5, cause this cam is a great improvement to earlier M4/3 models AND the lenses you can choose from are really great and much smaller, nothing like the mediocre Sony NEX lenses (except 24mm and 50mm, which are not payable or not available ^^)
Yes, switching your whole camera brand whenever a new one is presented is probably the best you can do 😉
not switching, buying the first one 😉
thats a big difference, so its really choosing, not beeing influenced in the decision by already bought lenses or Sony cameras!
I waited really long … but: the NEX5N has in my opinion bad usability thanks to the lack of buttons, the NEX7 has not the right lenses to use the 24 MP sensor fully (ok, as said, the expensive 24mm and the not available 50mm) and both have a not up to date Autofocus performance (compared to other mirrorless systems like Nikon 1, Olympus or Panasonic)!
Then there is the Alpha lineup, of course a really good idea with the fixed mirror, but first is the availability which isnt good or to increased prices! Second (for a new system!) is the increased price policy for lenses of Sony, thanks Sony … now its easier to decide! And third is the comparison to other systems. If you want a high resolution, you wont go for a A77, you should invest 1000 more to buy D800(E)! If you look for a fast camera, then also the last mirrorless systems are on par with Sony SLT line… look at the Olympus OMD EM5, its image quality is at least on par with the SLT A57 or even better! and it also shoots 9 fps, has a much better lens lineup for acceptable prices and is together with the lens much smaller, so that you can take it everywhere!
“…the NEX7 has not the right lenses to use the 24 MP sensor fully (ok, as said, the expensive 24mm…”
Any quality lens to optimize that 24 MP sensor is ALWAYS going to be ‘expensive’. No one is every going to manufacture cheap Zeiss 35mm f1.4 lens. All these companies stay alive if they generate profit.
I get a bit weary of people complaining about the lack of quality lens and then in the next comment they bitch and complain about the price of a Zeiss!
Is this supposed to make us pissed? I mean, what does it help to a Sony user to know how good a Sony sensor performs in a Nikon body if there is nothing Sony offers to us? Does it mean that Sony simply cares more about Nikon users than about their own? I know how well the D800 performs and we are yet to see the performance of the D800E, but this kind of stories just drive me and many other to Nikon.
Sony should better anounce something mind whopping very soon – a A77 version without AA filter, or finally the A99 with an option to have it without AA filter. Otherwise – goodbye
Invest? That’s a horrible investment.
The Nikon looked magenta-ish on all shots though.
Possibly because the user set the white balance according to the green shifted screen feedback
A lot of subjective waffle in those comparisons. Firstly things like skin tones are more to do with the conversion from RAW to the display format. There is a near infinite number of variations on tone curves and other settings which are involved in producing the final output. To a large extent, it’s a subjective preference. In fact the eye and brain together are very clever at representing skin tones which, too a large extent, compensate for the type of illumination. It is, for instance, why we see skin tones under tungsten as reasonably normal whereas a “neutral” reproduction of the actual colours reflected from the skin will have a jaundiced yellow look when captured by a digital sensor (or film) unless compensated for electronically, by filtering, or through emulsion.
It can thus be reasonably said that for most purposes, colour reproduction from RAW is largely a matter of the conversion processing and not the camera sensor (within the limits of DR etc.) – that’s assuming the colour channel filters are appropriately specified, and these days they are. (Some manufacturers in the past have had slightly less dense filters to try and reduce noise at the expense of colur sensitivity).
Yes, you will see big colour variations from (especially) the JPEG output from different cameras, but these are more a matter of the compromises made by the camera’s designers for conversion rather than an inherent feature of the RAW data.
The Hassablad may have 16 bit RAW files, but that doesn’t mean it has 65,536 distinguishable levels in each colour channel. That would imply it has 16 stops of dynamic range. In practice, measurements show it has only about 12 stops at native resolution as noise provides a floor (reduce to 8MP and you’ll get another stop). The extra 2 bits over the Nikon’s 14 bits is just noise. Indeed the last 3-4 bits is probably just noise.
Objective measurements tend to show the Nikon’s sensor outperforms the Hasseblad’s on almost all objective measures.
Tests like this only work if the files are independently processed to produce similar results and reviewed “blind” to get rid of confirmation bias.
The new Sony DSC-HX200V has 18.2MP with 6.17×4.55mm size sensor.
A FF sensor i 35.9x24mm, so that would equal to around 500 MP
with same pixel size as the HX200V.
So a FF sensor with 48 or 96 MP could the next.
I don’t believe in a 100+ MP sensor next year or something.
But 2x A77 (24MP) = 48 MP so why not?
I just hope Sony also could start to use some sort of pixel binning.
With option to store e.g 12, 24 or 48MP RAW files.
Even better if the pixel binning would increase the dynamic range.
I am no sensor designer so I don’t even know what is possible.
18 stop dynamic range! I am just dreaming 🙂
24Mpx (A77) x 1.5 = 36 Mpx sensor
Coincidence? :p
No, but wrong maths: the area of FF compared to APS-C is 2.25 times as high (=1.5×1.5)
But 24 x 1.5 x 1.5 = 54 is the relevant formula…
FF size / APS-C size = 2.35
So that would give us a 24 MP x 2.35 = 56 MP FF sensor.
I don’t know why they did go for a 36 MP FF sensor.
If you double the resolution in both horizontal and vertical
a 24 MP becomes a 96 MP sensor. (4x24MP)
The increase in resolution from 24MP to 36MP is not that big really.
A 96 MP FF sensor would be… something! 🙂
But I don’t need that many MP’s. But if there where some different
sensor read-out modes so you could select between e.g 6, 12, 24, 48 and
96MP RAW files I would be happy 🙂 Of course with some sort of
pixel binning, not just a reduction in MP’s.
Maybe when I am 50 years old (that is still some years to)
I bet the 100MP sensor would have an exclusivity deal with Nikon. 😉
Same for me as long as Sony also use them 🙂
Canon would have an 22.99MP sensor at same time 🙂
No I am not so happy for many MP’s sensors.
Dynamic range, and high ISO performance is most important.
A99 wont have the same kind of detail reproduction like D800 if the SLT mirror gets in the way.
That’s not known for sure yet that the loss of a little light lowers IQ.
I for one, do hope to see a well done head-to-head between a top SLT from Sony and DSLR with the saame sensor from Nikon and put this to rest.I hope the SLT will do well in such a test.
Is this something that can be seen and if so, is the tradeoff worth it; The EVF has many positve features so maybe SLT as made by Sony needs one more generation to workout any bugs with the mirror.
Didn’t we see that in A55 and D5100? I thought those two cameras had the same sensor.
Canon already showed 120 mpix prototype on some show some time ago. They can do interesting stuff, but theres small difference between what they can and what we will see.
For example I would love to see low mpix 6×7 digital back for reasonable price. 😀
Hmmm… did not Admin here say “something big is coming…” just
some days ago?
Our Admin is often saying that something big is going to happen.
More times than not recently, the “big thing” turns out to be a big disappointment.
Ok but then it is not a lie 😉
Nope, its not a lie…
For most of last few weeks it’s been a big thing for Nikon shooters.
I think admin is trying to keep interest peaked. I don’t think the “something big” has truly transpired. I maybe wrong, but I assumed the big thing is an earlier announcement about the upcoming news of the new FF than initially thought. However, the disappointment will be that they will officially notify us that the camera is in the process of being tested but we will still not get our hands on it until fall or winter. I really hope that there is some improvements other than it is going to be a FF 77. Not that this would be bad, it will be a very good camera, I am just hoping for something a bit more impressive. An earlier release would be big and unexpected news.
There has been the talk of the square sensor…
Really needed to let the photographer do more talking instead of pontificating on the premise.
Not sure who does what and who pays, but for sure the Nikon-Sony sensor development is a success! To me Canon sensors develops slower.
My guess is Nikon has the edge on image processing and Sony on the hardware.
BTW: In early digital compacts days, most japanese cameras, regardless of brand was developed, designed and manufactured by Sanyo – of course after requirement specifacation from respective brand.
BTW2: This is also very common in automotive. Take a BMW 1-series and a high power Peugeot 20 series they have the engine in common. Same thing with Volvo diesels – they are from Peugeot. Re-branded and manufactured in a Volvo factory though
NOTE: Obviously Sony has lens development with Russian Zenith. I had one of those, my first SLR late 60-s. Belived Zenith was closed a few decades ago but Sony lenses, at least some are of the same quality as Zenith. 🙂 (Luckily Sony has cooperation with Zeiss as well, just wonders when they will learn something from them.)
Well, it’s nice that Nikon doesn’t know that SLT is the future.
Sorry guys, it’s hard to think that this performance planned to come on A950.
If you’re seeing a lack of Nikon or Canon SLT/EVF based bodies, it’s because their customers haven’t requested such a thing en-masse. Don’t be so naive to assume that Canon, Nikon, Pentax et-al are holding back on releasing SLT/EVF based bodies because they’re unable engineer such a thing or believe that it has no future, theyre simply afraid of the customer backlash.
Sony’s small crop and FF market share has dictated that they think create a novel product to differentiate themselves from the larger places, and this is where the SLT design was borne out of (or re-born as it might be).
Nikon and Canon both have EVF and sensor patents for similar bodies. They’re just holding back until the customer based has become more accepting of the tech.
Oh and no, if Sony use the 36mp sensor in an SLT design, they’re clearly not going to be able to match the performance of the D800 unless they provide a method to move the pellical mirror out of the way to prevent the inherent light loss.
Look, its obvious that Sony has abandoned its customers by giving its sensor to Nikon. Why else would they do it? If they are prroud of their techno advantage why didnt they come out with a 36mpxl A950 – A1000 – whatever and blow Canon and Nikon right out of the water. Instead Nikon gets it and we Alpha900 owners are totally screwed. Clocks running down, Nikon is calling.
Are they from Canada?
They’re not abandoning their customers, they’re just making money off selling an excellent sensor to a partner whilst they’re developing their own body. It’s not like selling their 36mp sensor to Nikon has delayed development of the a99.
the camera store guy, talks too much – he should have let the photogs do more talking, but them with their faces looking like they eat a piece of dog shit, i dont know .
Saying in camera you need certain equipment to look good, really makes you look an idiot, sorry folks this video didnt make you any favor.
kai got competition.
What I don’t get is: Are they just using the default profiles everywhere? What about colour calibration? That should easily take care of the “magenta-ish” tones your man is complaining about . . .
What makes you think that Nikon owners hate hearing that Sony are responsible for the sensor in the D800? I’m the owner of a D7000 and a D800, both of which run amazing Sony sensors and I can honestly say that I’m loving the partnership between two companies at the moment. Together they’re producing some fine hardware, so I’m not too sure as to where this perceived hatred is coming from.
“nex year” ist one year too late 😉