Ok guys, a small good news on the new expensive Nocticron lens. The final price is $1599 and not $1699 as previously stated at BHphoto (Click here). The US store corrected the price info right now!
And today Panasonic again discounted (minus $100-$150) the GX7 at Amazon US (Click here) and BHphoto (Click here). But the Black kit doesn’t get that discount.
106 Responses
That’s more like it 😉
already discounted 😛
Big difference. Over $1000 is crazy for that lens.
At that price and size I expect little digital correction over distortion, aberration, vignette, as well as fine resolution/contrast/sharpness and sweet out of focus blur. I also expect robust construction. Give me a whole package and such price is fine for those that values all of the above.
Until we know better, the jury is still out.
The same day Sigma announced their new 50mm f1.4 that if it is as good as their 35mm it is a real winner at $499.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/560577-USA/Sigma_310_101_Normal_50mm_f_1_4_EX.html
That link is to the old EX GD model. I haven’t seen price info for the ART version nor have I seen it anywhere available for purchase. It may well be $499 as the old version was, but its too early to say unless you have some more specific source for that info.
Though I do own the 50 EX DG in Sony A mount and it is a very nice lens, I’m sure the ART version will be as good or even better.
My head is about to explode as I want both of these lenses.The Nocti and the Sigma 50mm. I currently own the old 50mm f/1.4 for my FF system…it’s better than all of the Canon offerings for my money…BUT I think we have to expect this new, larger, much more complicated lens …it has 13 glass elements…. to come in at at least $900, maybe more, and people will clamor to buy it. Hopefully this is a watershed moment for digital photography..a GREAT” normal” focal lenght for full frame…It’s about time. I just hope this lens delivers the goods….Can’t wait to see the tests! The current offering of 50mm lenses from the big manufacturers is dismal..(our little Panny 25 outshines them!).
Panny I’m loyal to you but I think time has come to have an open relationship. That money can get me another system. You are still my choice for video and street though:)
I have a feeling I’m going to want this lens for a very long time before i buy it!
Any word on a release date or price for the 15mm? I suppose we’ll be waiting until February now.
Anyone willing to place a bet on the price one year from now?
Their 45mm 2.8 is still pricy, and I don’t think time is going to affect it too much. More people buy the 45mm 1.8 than the 2.8, if people speaking on forums are to be believed (as as we all know, the internet never lies). I bought a 45mm 2.8 originally because I wanted to combine Macro and portrait/mid, but eventually I sold it and got the Oly version.
Funny thing, the 45 2.8 is selling more now than it did back then. So I really doubt time will be what makes them change their price, even if it doesn’t sell like hotcakes. If it goes down, pleasant surprise. If it doesn’t, don’t act shocked, as there is precedence. I think Oly discounts more lenses than panny does… (the 25mm is also currently more expensive than I originally got it for).
The 45mm 2.8 only goes for $450 mint on ebay. I’d say that is quite a bit less than the original ~$900 price tag.
No this is not a “break through” lens. Also even if they got the pricing wrong….$1599 is still way to much ! Go compare it to several other 1.4 AF or even other classic 1.2 MF lenses. I had an original 1st series Leica” Nocti” an E58….they quality even on later versions NOCTILUX was not that great. The lastest version, which is $10K is good but in reality…not better than the Summilux ASPH 1.4 ……Which is less than 1/2 the cost of the current Noctilux
As for this lens…it will hold a emotional attraction for some people….but in reality the Fuji 56mm F1.2 will be the better lens and again $600 less at full retail. No this is panasonic “nocti” is just a marketing gimmick…..sad but true
While you can quite reasonably say that the Fuji 56mm will be a better VALUE lens, at this point there’s literally zero reason to think at this point that it will be a BETTER lens objectively.
Woohoo, I’ll put in a preorder now that it is SO reasonable..
The Price is ridiculous, The specs are more than great(OIS on a prime lens!) but I’d rather get the Voigtlander 42.5 f/0.95 and save a few hundred dollars.
and when considering the size, the specs and the availability of different options (Oly 45/1.8 and Voigtlander 42.5/0.95) I thought the Pany-Leica would be around a grand, not more!
No big deal , just wait for the price to drop if it still consider expensive .
Very simple supply&demand rules in a market .
For me , I prefer to wait & see .
Unlike the 75mm , I get it straight away .
Under $1000 w/ f1.0.
No brainer.
The Speedbooster would result in a 35mm focal length, not the best for portraits.
well better use a 58mm f2 or f1.4 whith speed booster, it would become a 41mm
Minolta Rokkor 58mm f1.2 + Speedbooster… 🙂
I’m not buying this lens but the pricing seems to be spot on. If you look at the results of the poll, unscientific as that may be, you have some people who will buy it and many more who will buy it for a lower price. Given that supply will be constrained, it makes sense to release it at the higher price for those willing to pay more and then later use rebates/price cuts to expand the market.
Still too high !
It should not be more then $1200.
Well it’s $100 closer to $1200, NOW! 🙂
Compare to other 85mm/1.2 lenses around. Canons is 2200$, large, 1kg, 1m minimum focus distance, no VR, the Pana has the same FoV and light gathering capability (0.5m(!) minimum focus distance) but larger DOF (which I don’t find a problem, it’s shallow enough for me and I use other 50mm manual focus lenses).
The Fuji doesn’t have VR, focuses not as close, we don’t know optical quality yet, yet everybody knows what the price should be and which one is better.
Nobody needs to buy it. If you want extremes for EACH sensor, you need to pay a lot. Nothing comes for free.
We didn’t choose m43 for shallow DOF, this just gives you an extreme option, which is fine.
Compare to superb and highly-recommended Nikon 85/1.8g ($500, 330g). It is more than to blow away this Nocticron.
I can imagine.
This lens is far from being “extreme” in terms of DOF. It compares to a FF 2.4 lens!
Besides, I can’t see why people here say that this is the “first 85mm 1.2 this and that”, and then complain when you compare it to 85mm 1.8 FF lenses. If this is an 85mm equivalent (yes, ok) in terms of DOF it is a 2.4 equivalent. So: you want to compare it to 85mm lenses? Then don’t compare it to the Canon 85 1.2, but to the Canon (and Nikon, and everybody else’s) 1.8 or less, which cost a fraction and probably deliver better.
Then you can get why this lens is considered way too expensive for a portrait lens (’cause, hei, this is a portrait lens. Make no mistake: DOF counts!)
More DOF is actually an advantage with f1.2 portrait lenses. I still get f1.2 light transmission with the added bonus of having more of my subject in focus.
emh… then maybe a Nikon 1 system + 1.2 lens would serve you better 😉
That of Nikon 1 has maybe a wider DOF.
The point here is that we are m43 users, therefore we know what we use.
If we like this system is simply because we know the pros and cons of it.
An example: a couple of months ago I had a fashion shooting in Venice: we started in the afternoon, inside some old and typical palace. In dim light.
My friend (a fuji user) went with his Ds4. I mainly used my Em5 and Panasonic 25mm f1.4.
He had always “issues” like placing the models so that at least their faces were on focus, because of the thin DOF of his FX camera.
I’m not saying which pictures were better: I have enjoyed the evening and had fun without that problem.
So, it can be a plus, a FX camera for portrairs, but also a problem, exactly for the same reason.
No arguing against that. To each his own.
Besides, Lorenzaccio died in Venice 😉
Of course it is extreme, are you kidding? Take a portrait at 3 meters with say a 10 meters distance background at f1.2 and tell what do you see in the background, other than a totally blurred background.
Heh, “extreme” in your example is not the lens aperture, but the distance of the background! You have it that way only in open spaces, or big halls that we have to imagine empty (otherwise 10 meters beyond the subject would simply not exist). And if you have so much space from background to subject, then any remotely decent lens for FF and apsc will do the job. I guess even the Pana 35-100 2.8 would be enough to isolate the subject, at that point. All in all: we are not talking about these lucky situations, but more realistic moments when you have to blur someone or something two meters max. beyond the subject. Good luck with that.
People getting confused that MFT lenses should be cheaper because they are not full frame!! That’s totally wrong. You get what you pay for. This is the world first 85mm f/1.2 lens with image Stabilization. Good lenses are always expensive!!
I think i understand what my brother felt, when he had the M9 with 50 summilux but still wished to buy The Noct 50 which is more than 3 times the price of the his 50 LUX was over 10K, and now .i ‘m in the kind of situation when i still have the excellent F1.8/45mm Oly but alsol lust for The Nocticron ,Pseudo Leica,.for 4 times the price of the OLY 45,.
is the 4 times worth of money $400 >< 67mm on the Noct,.
http://www.photozone.de/olympus–four-thirds-lens-tests/509-leica25f14
I think i understand what my brother felt, when he had the M9 with 50 summilux but still wished to buy The Noct 50 which is more than 3 times the price of the his 50 LUX was over 10K, and now .i ‘m in the kind of situation when i still have the excellent F1.8/45mm Oly but alsol lust for The Nocticron ,Pseudo Leica,.for 4 times the price of the OLY 45,.
is the 4 times worth of money $400 >< 67mm on the Noct,.
http://www.photozone.de/olympus–four-thirds-lens-tests/509-leica25f14
admin
why is it my comment is not completed as it should be,.its just partially chopped,.and is really messed,.
Typical beginner’s problem. Been there, done that, wore the t-shirt… You don’t need more gear, you need more skill. If you really want more gear, buy new lights.
The Canon 85 1.2 is $2200 why is $1600 too much for this lens?
because 42.5/1.2 is 85/2.4
42.5 f/1.2 is 42.5/1.2. It most certainly is not 85 of any aperture.
light f/1.2, and dof f/2.4 that’s all.
No, 42.5/1.2 is 42.5/1.2
What you can say is that a 42.5/1.2 on a 4/3″ sensor is equivalent to a 85/2.4 on a 35mm sensor with regards to AOV and DOF, but they are not the same thing.
We are talking equivalences here. This lens is a portrait lens, and as such it is to be compared to the lenses equivalent in FOV and DOF. Hence the equivalence 42.5 1.2 = 85 2.4 is correct.
Especially if we talk about the price: this lens is being for no reason compared to the Canon 1.2. A Canon (or Nikon) 85 1.8 serves the purpose of a portrait lens of equivalent FOV with a better subject isolation, coming at a fraction of the price of this lens.
Yes, an FF system is bigger and heavier, but for the price of this lens (which is not small by all means) I’d rather consider the new Fuji option (e.g. ex2 + 56 lens), or even the Sony A7 + adapter + Canikon 85 1.8, which would have a better overall IQ, better DOF, be more or less as big as the combo GX7 + this lens, and cost less!
Which part of “a 42.5/1.2 on a 4/3″ sensor is equivalent to a 85/2.4 on a 35mm sensor” was difficult to understand for you?
And yes, DOF can be quite important for portraiture, having enough of it to actually have more then a few hairs in focus kinda helps.
Sure, I guess that in modern world the notion of “stopping down” has lost its meaning…
You certainly can stop it down, but the point is, why own a faster lens when you are going to stop it down anyway.
Ok, you have more flexibility, but the question is, are you going to use that flexibility when the result is having too little of a face in focus? For that matter, having enough of a face in focus can already be a problem with a 45/1.8 on m4/3 at times.
I’m pretty sure there also exist people who can show a 85/1.2 is very useful, but thats really pretty exceptional. 85/1.8? Well, if thats what you need, and most of what you need, then maybe the system that can get that cheapest with for you acceptable quality is the best choice. As you say elsewhere, that and wide-angle are important to you, in which case I’ll repeat that you may be best of with a ‘full frame’ system, especially if you’d also want to make use of more shallow dof for wide angles.
I’m much more interested in a scalable all-round system, that can be reduced to a camera with 2 lenses fitting the pockets of my coat, but can also ‘scale up’ to something suitable for covering indoor events and such, so priorities matter for choices.
Looking at this lens, well, there also is a manual focus 42.5/0.95, and a host of 50mm/1.x lenses which are close enough in FOV to work quite fine. Its merely yet another option at this approx field of view, a rather expensive and hopefully high-quality one.
As I answered in other posts, I really have nothing to say against the lens per se.
It’s the price that concerns me. I am shopping for a smaller system than I currently have, and I am not poor. Still, I feel that at the price I am not in. And I know I am kind of representative of quite a segment of the market, here.
However, I am also waiting to see street prices in Japan (things tend to become preatty cheaper than original price, here, so you never know…)
Its expensive for sure, and while I could afford it, I’m not interested either. However, I contend that many people need such a lens to begin with, especially seeing how there are much more affordable options in the same system that can for most do the job totally fine.
Regardless, if this kind of lens is your primary interest and you do not have any mirrorless system camera yet, the Fuji offering is simply very attractive.
I’ll wait for more thorough tests and sample images before going to make any call about it being too expensive for what it is.
Sure, there is still the possibility that this lens outmatches the Fuji.
But recently Fuji has produced very nice lenses. I guess in the end they will both be excellent.
Yes, I will wait a few months for comparative reviews (I think it’s going to be interesting)
@Lorenzaccio
First question still is if one actually needs the shallow dof one can get from a 85/1.8 or if a 85/3.5 will do the job as well in almost all cases, and if you could easily work around such cases. In that case a lot of compactness can be gained but obviously the price is flexibility. A lens like this adds back some of that flexibility, but at the obvious expense of compactness. but the point is that you actually have that choice. For that reason you really need to consider the system as a whole, because there simply exist multiple different size/weight/performance/price compromises in the system, including ones that get you very very close to that ‘FF’ 85/1.8 if you determined you do need this.
You make a good point, which is that you should judge the lens as a portrait lens. However, you then reach the wrong conclusion about which lenses would work better. Since most people don’t want a portrait with the face OOF, for portraits you want more DOF not less. Advantage Nocticron. Of course you could get more DOF on the Canon or Nikon lenses by stopping, but if you want low light and/or natural light portraits then an f/1.2 lens is an f/1.2 lens. Advantage Nocticron. Basically a really fast portrait lens for 43 gives you sufficient DOF and the ability to shoot in low light.
Overall the whole notion that you need such fast lenses for “subject isolation” strikes me as bizarre. If you need more subject isolation just take a step forward — DOF is more affected by distance than aperture. You’re shooting portraits, right? Your subject isn’t going to run away.
Both the “advantages” of the Pana lens are easily matched by any 1.8 FF lenses.
Yes, stopping down eliminates the first. And actually stopping down means optimizing the IQ of the lens, which will certainly become sharper than a non-stopped-down 1.2 lens (I don’t want to play this “advantage” game, but this is it).
And guess what, better high iso eliminates the second so called advantage. This is the point of FF sensors vs 43 sensors: you can’t beat them in low light. Amen for your second advantage.
So, all in all, I can recreate with other camera + lens combos all effects and nuances I can obtain from the Pana lens, and probably even better, for the same bulk, less money, better IQ quality, PLUS I still have the extreme subject isolation options, impossible to obtain with the Pana. Subject isolation that I can use or not (depending on my preferences and ability), but is there for whenever I desire it.
There is really no advantage in using a lens like this (relatively big and very expensive) on a sensor like the m43 sensor.
First of all, you are (again) looking at this lens in isolation, but it is part of a system, and as such, adds choice to that system, but not the only choice in that system.
Second, if you are going to stop down that f/1.8 lens, you soon enter the area where the 45/1.8 on m4/3 would do the job just as well, is A LOT smaller and lighter and much cheaper.
Third, there exist alternatives in m4/3, also cheaper then this lens that get you almost the same shallow DOF as a ‘FF’ 85/1.8, through those are manual focus (but that would also be the case for most ‘FF’ 85/1.8s used on an A7 with adapter for example)
And last, if subject isolation by means of extremely shallow DOF is very important for you, don’t bother with ‘crop’ formats, as they will never do this as well as 135 or larger formats, and especially not at wider fields of view.
You have to read my email as an answer to Donc email. Stopping down the FF 85 1.8 was a mean to have the same FOV of the Pana 1.2 lens, that apparently would be a plus (= not being able to have FF versatility would be a bonus, in few words).
So, I was simply pointing out that the reasoning could not last vs a better analysis.
However, in these posts I am not going against the m43 system per se, nor against this Pana lens per se, but against the insane pricing of this lens. It should raise an eye that it is 50% more expensive than the more versatile but not bigger Fuji 56mm, no matter what system we prefer as a whole.
Why do you say that? It has the FOV of 85 but lets in the light of 1.2
’cause since this lens is meant for portraits, DOF is as important as FOV. And the Canon you mention is in a completely different league, with almost 3 (three!) stops more of DOF. In the world of FF, DOF considered, this lens is beaten hard by any 85 1.8 lens available for a fraction of its price…
When you buy a fast lens you are paying for light not dof. the 1.2 The 4/3 system lets in 2x’s the light of a FF camera.
the canon has less dof not more
Yes, less DOF, you are right (that is what I meant).
No, you are not paying only for light, but also for subject isolation, ESPECIALLY for this class of lens (portrait lenses).
For other uses (landscape, macro, sports, etc.) the feature of subject isolation is either less important or has less to do with aperture / sensor size.
But for this kind of lens subject isolation is crucial. If you don’t get this, you have never really used anything in this class and compared the results (I did it with the Nikon 85 1.8 and Sigma 85 1.4 on FF cameras: you don’t always need 1.4, but when you do need it, and know how to use it, it’s what makes the difference).
Shallow DOF is the benefit of FF but you can still achieve shallow DOF with m43. I do everyday. You can choose a longer lens to compress the background which creates isolation as you would call it. I have never in my life heard of a portrait photographer shooting at 85 1.2 for a portrait. You need at least 2.8 to get the whole face in focus. The benefit to 4/3 is you get to shoot at 2 stops lower on your ISO.
Well, 85mm is a very good FOV, especially for subject distance. This is why all modern systems (now m43 and Fuji) are trying to have a lens covering it.
And, while I have never taken pics at 1.2 on FF cameras (nor I personally desire to), I did see the difference between 1.8 and 1.4. If you go closer to the subject you may compromise the framing / kind of portrait you had in mind. So yes, I wish to have the option to go as wide as possible.
The point is: with a 85 1.8 you don’t really loose anything, and those come for quite cheap nowadays. The Sony A7 + adapter is now a serious option for using this kind of lenses. And also the new Fuji is there: same aperture, same bulk, but far cheaper.
Sure any photographer makes his / her choices depending on many different variables, but the price of this lens is so high that this specific variable will be measured against similar offerings that can give you more shooting options and (probably) better quality for less money.
So, to each his own, but from a marketing point of view this lens is a looser.
This lens merely adds yet another option to this approx FOV for m4/3, an expensive, high-end one for sure, but it merely means more choice, can’t see the problem with that really.
Sure, more choices is always better, even for those who do not take advantage of them. And I am sure this lens is a very good one. So, if someone needs it and can afford it, good for him/her.
But if we discuss more in general about brands and offerings, Fuji has a winner here, not Pana. The difference in price between the two lenses covers in fact the price of a new camera body. I think Pana needs to rethink the price of this lens, if possible.
@lorenzaccio
Well, I’m not in the market for this lens because I have more then enough lenses close to that field of view, but lets say that I didn’t yet, and needed a lens like that..
If I don’t own anything, and its the most important thing to own, the Fuji seems like the more attractive option, but I’m more interested in the system as a whole, and don’t see a point into switching between systems all the time because one or the other has a specific lens. I’ve much better things to do then changing my workflow, getting used to new cameras, and trying to get rid of my old gear all the time 🙂
@yaa
Sure, I see your point.
But I do not own any mirrorless at the moment, so in buying a Fuji or a Pana (or Oly) I am in fact starting a new category of cameras, and not really switching. Still, I would like to have the “best possible” for the size. This is where the Fuji comes into play. But I will wait for the Fuji 10-24 before making my final decision (and meanwhile I will shoot with my Nikon D7000 and my friend’s Canon 6D 😉 )
@ lorenzaccio
Well, welcome to the mirrorless world! I’ve written a couple of articles that address a lot of your points. A bit outdated at this point, but you can add new information yourself.
http://leicaapostate.com/index.php?file=20131221__Talking_Up_Mirrorless
http://leicaapostate.com/index.php?file=20130801__Mirrorless_Lens_Range
@lorenzaccio
There are a number of alternatives with similar or the same fov, 2 of which actually get you more shallow dof even, through at the expense of auto focus.
Beyond that, sorry but even for portraiture there are a number of things to subject isolation besides ‘shallow DOF’
– managing relation between camera subject distance and subject background distance
– using backdrops
– composition
Besides, to achieve separation you don’t need to blur the background into something totally unrecognizable, merely a strong enough difference in sharpness will do. You may WANT more then that, and thats totally valid, but not at all a ‘technical’ argument, but an argument about your preferences and desires. Ie, arguing that for example the 45/1.8 doesn’t get you subject isolation is simply nonsense, but saying you’d like more subject isolation then it can give you is totally valid.
In fact if I had to buy a m43 camera + lenses now, the 45 1.8 would be my choice, NOT the 42.5 1.2.
What puzzles me is the difference in price, which cannot justified with references to the FF world (à la Canon 85 1.2), because that is really another world.
This was my point from the beginning…
@lorenzaccio
Well, there is a way to reference to the ‘ff world’ for sure, as the price difference between a 85/1.8 and 85/1.2 is generally at least as big as that between the 45/1.8 and 42.5/1.2.
Beyond that, no, you can apply equivalence ‘rules’ to get a good idea of what you’d need in another system with regards to focal length and f-stop for taking the exact same picture, but directly comparing lenses in different systems seldom makes any sense. Comparing systems in relation to your own needs obviously makes a lot of sense.
You are comparing the cost of the lens. Compare the cost of the whole system.
We are still not there. Fuji ex2 (the Fuji body I would buy) + 56mm is less than the Pana GX7 (the Pana body I would buy) + this 42.5. The Sony ILCE A7 (I would not buy it, but for the sake of the argument let’s assume I would) + adaptor + any good 85 1.8 on the market is more or less as expensive (at least in Japan!)
This is my point. I the price comes down, I will change my mind
so it’s mainly a portrait lens to shoot for use at midnight in the forrest without flash.
2 (two) stops. F0.8 on FF would be a 3 stop difference.
Personally I shoot with a FF+85/1.4, as well as M43rds. With the FF system, I usually have to stop down to F2.8-5.6 to have enough DOF for a headshot at head and shoulders distance or closer. Which is easily done even with the Oly 45/1.8.
For full body where you want isolation M43rds can’t really compare to FF, but this lens helps close the gap. F2.4 at 85mm-ish equiv is still extremely narrow DOF for most uses.
Sure there is still a two stop difference between this lens and shooting an 85L wife open, but differences in subject placement, camera to subject, subject to background, are much, much, MUCH more important and will have more effect on your subject isolation than 2 stops.
I am certainly not arguing against the utility of the lens per se.
I am arguing against its price. If you compare it to what is available for other systems it just does not make sense.
If you had to start from zero, and you were interested specifically in this kind of portrait lenses, I think you would be hard pressed to justify it vs the new Fuji 56mm, or vs a legacy 85 1.8 to be used via adaptor on a Sony A7 (unless fast AF is important to you).
Well, I am in fact interested in this kind of lens, but I am also interested in ultra wide-angles. So far, the m43 system was winning hands down. I am waiting for the ultra wide zoom from Fuji, and then I will invest my money…
I understand the issue with the price. I would have liked it be around $1200 or so, but I wasn’t holding my breath. Certaintly its a bad value compared to the Nikon 32/1.2, or the Fuji 56/1.2.
However, its fairly easy for my to justify the purchase anyway:
1. For the Nikon or the Fuji, I would have to buy a camera body too, and none of them interest me, so its moot. If Pentax comes out with a 1.2 lens for their Q system for $200 I won’t want that either.
2. I have a FF camera (A900) + Sigma 85/1.4 and Simga 24-70/2.8 set that gets virtually no use now that I have EM1, EM5 and a handful of lenses. So price wise, I can afford it, even if its a comparatively bad value.
There, easily justified, for me. I can understand how it would be hard to justify for others, or especially someone who isn’t investing into the M43rds system already.
* Because I can sell the Sony set to afford it (sorry, meant to say that).
Shooting with the Sony A system has taught me one thing: The price of gear in other systems is totally irrelevant.
For instance: Can/Nikon 35/2 sells for $300 or so, Minolta 35/2 sells for $600 (due to rarity)
No 85/1.8 in A mount, only 85/1.4 Minolta, Sigma, Zeiss.
I feel sorry for anyone who spends all their time lusting after gear available for other systems. Shoot with what you have, or go buy what you want and then shoot with that! No amount of forum posts/comments on rumor sites will make that Fuji 56/1.2 work a M43rds camera.
All you say it’s reasonable.
I have to start a new system, and this is why I am comparing one system to the other.
If I were already invested into m43, I would not bother moaning about the price of a lens, and I would simply not buy it (in case it were too expensive).
But yes, for me comparing Fuji and m43 systems (and Sony Nex/ILCE system, though currently under definition) is kind of important in this phase…
Yeah that makes sense. I would suggesting trying out the EM1 and the Fuji XE2 for an extended period if you can. I owned the EX1 for a brief period and got to compare it directly to my EM5, I know it has improved with firmware since (and the XE2 moreso) but the Fuji system was nowhere near as responsive. By this I mean general controls, AF speed, general operation speed (shot to shot time, review time, buffer size/clear time, etc), the EVF in the XE1 wasn’t nearly as good, and would go to like 1/4 resolution when focusing (really strange), plus lack of IBIS and no IS with primes means I can shoot at slower shutter speeds (when freezing action isn’t a concern) which negates some of the Fuji sensor advantage. The Fuji sensor is very nice, as are some of the lenses, but the system as a whole was much less usable.
I really wanted to love the XE1, but when it comes to getting an important shot, I couldn’t trust it.
I hear the XE2 is better, but the EM1 is significantly better in a few keys areas over the EM5 as well (AF tracking, AF point size, buffer, controls/ergonomics).
It is too much because that new lens sits right between the Nikon 1 32mm f1.2 and the Fuji 56mm f1.2, which are respectively $900 and $1000. Those lenses are made for crop format mirrorless cameras, are f1.2 and are 85mm FF equivalent, so they are the closest comparatives to the new Lumix.
If you aim to imply that the Panasonic lens is comparatively cheap, why go for the Canon? I would say that it is close enough in specs to the Leica 120mm f/2.5 APO-Macro-Summarit-S ($8500 medium format 96mm FF equiv) to warrant a multi-thousand dollars price point. Don’t you think? Aperture is even “bigger” at f1.2 vs f2.5!
It’s overpriced no matter what reason is. On FF, you can get Nikon 85/1.8g which is proven as one of the excellent portraits lens. Moreover, of you stop down to f2.8 which is equivalent to this NOCT 42.5/1.2, this 851.8g is hell sharp like razor.
It is overpriced because it is part of a natively crippled system that will never come close to:
Canon 6D + 85/1.8
Nikon D610 + 85/1.8
A combo with an E-M1 and this funny Noct is a little smaller, and inferior at all other disciplines. It is also way dearer – a handbook bait for suckers.
Cause the Canon has almost three stops advantage in DOF, which is portraiture does indeed make a huge difference
I meant “in portraiture”, not “is”
2 (Two) stops compared to the 85L, not sure why you keep saying 3, you must be thinking about the Olympus 45mm 1.8, which is a 3 stop difference (a hair over, actually).
1.5 stops difference compared to an 85/1.4
2/3rds stop difference compared to an 85/1.8
No thanks.
For 1600, I choose 75/1.8 and Voight 42.5/0.95 any day. This Voight is on par with or perhaps better than Noct and cheaper (and even can be used (via adapter) with A7r with almost invisible vignette.)
Good choice. Love the 75mm, and just got rid of the 45mm as I fell in love with the 75mm. The voigt 25mm or 42.5 are calling to me now. 🙂
I am also glad to see this high end lens finally up for sale, but it is ridiculously overpriced. I just don’t believe the $1600 price tag is justified when there are so many less expensive alternatives right now that will probably delivery almost as good, if not just as good, results. Damn that Leica name, that’s probably where the extra $$ is made up in just to have that branded on the lens.
Have to see more samples and get some reviews in before I even attempt to think about such a lens… it’s gonna hurt pretty bad forking up the cash for something like this.
Also, I think early reports using this lens on an Olympus body such as the OM-D, hasn’t been 100% successful. From what I’ve read, although the addition of an aperture ring on the Nocticron is pretty nice cool feature, I don’t believe it works on the Olympus camera(s)… at least not yet.. maybe the lens is an early version without full compatibility and/or Olympus needs a firmware update to recognize the Noctricon and accept using the aperture ring on the lens. If it doesn’t work on an E-M1, in my case, there’s not much bells and whistles for $1600 to spend on this lens.
I’d save the $600 and get a Voigtlander 42.5 f0.95 instead.. sure it’s manual, but the build quality is exceptional, the IQ is pretty damn impressive, and with the E-M1, manual focusing is a lot easier with focus peaking and the very nice EVF it uses.
I think at most, this Nocticron should really sell for no more than $1200 if they want to be competitive and not greedy and milking customers just for the Leica branding which I believe the $400 extra which this lens is overprice by comes from.
For $1200, it would be just within a reasonable price range to spend an extra $200 over the Voigtlander and get this Nocticron with AF, respectable f1.2 aperture, aperture ring, metal build, and Leica optic designs. For $1600, no way!
In a way, I’m glad this Nocticron is crazy overpriced at $1600… I was feeling it would have been really tempting and hard to choose between the Voigtlander 42.5 or this Panasonic 42.5… now that I know it’s $1600 out of my price range, the choice is clear and simpler.
The great thing about a lens like this is that most people commenting on this forum will not be buying it! That alone is worth a few hundred … add the OIS, 9 aperture blades and ASPH lens elements … price seems OK.
I agree with most people that it is crazy overpriced.
Pana seems to get lost. There are several options that gives same or even better results with cheaper investment for both m4/3 or FF format.
Plus, which benefits on earth if there is no m4/3 sensor that is worth paring with this lens.
Cheap nikon 85/1.8g and D610 can give stunning resolving power
I agree with most people that it is crazy overpriced.
There are several options that gives same or even better results with cheaper investment for both m4/3 or FF format.
Plus, which benefits on earth if there is no m4/3 sensor that is worth paring with this lens.
None of today m4/3 body can produce resolving power at the same level of FF sensor can. For instance, $599 nikon 85/1.8g and D610 can give stunning resolving power.
http://www.dxomark.com/Lenses/Compare/Side-by-side/Nikon-AF-S-NIKKOR-85mm-F18G-on-Nikon-D610-versus-Canon-EF85mm-f-1.8-USM-on-Canon-EOS-5D-Mark-III___823_915_241_795
None of today m4/3 body can give the same resolving power
Go and buy your D610 with the 85/1.8. This combo has much more resolving power and you are gonna love it. It’s much more resolving power for much less money… really amazing. The mirror, the bulkyness, the conservative design, the big bag around your shoulder… an unforgetable experience. This nocticron is overpriced, not for you. Go and buy your D610 with the 85/1.8. This combo has much more resolving power and you are gonna love it. It’s much more resolving power for much less money… really amazing. The mirror, the bulkyness, the conservative design, the big bag around your shoulder… an unforgetable experience. This nocticron is overpriced, not for you.
Yes Patrick
With current m4/3 pricing policy, we’re going to do as per your suggestion. Today FF gears are cheaper, lighter, and definitely better IQ. A7r+Voigt 42.5 will blow E-M1+Noct to dust.
Good joke…. hahaha…..
So I agree with the general sentiment that Panasonic may have pushed the price a little too far here. Although I can also see the unfortunate logic that they’re offering a unique combination and feel compelled to push the price beyond previous innovative mft lenses.
What I don’t get are the value propositions in the comments section to use a comparable lens from a completely different camera system. Moreso because the “portrait lens” argument being pushed actually works against these propositions.
Forget actual numbers for a moment. So the Nocticron would let me get the whole face and body (and not much else behind) in focus while wide open?
Whereas another system would require me to stop down to avoid me salami slicing the focus of anything ahead and behind the eyes of the subject and thereby bumping shutter speed or ISO to compensate in certain (let’s say) artistic lighting conditions?
This obsession about full frame being able to make slivers of dof is getting out of hand. Granted that’s ultimately an opinion on personal taste but the drive to have the system capable to do that now just seems to be bordering on the megapixel hysteria that fast accompanied the beginning of digital photography.
Well… That sort of went off on a tangent. Remind me not to write too many of these comments. 😉
One wonders if camera companies are not hitting hard at their customers’ weaknesses like bokeh.
OTH portrait lenses 85 eq. have from times immemorial been expensive, but perhaps not at this level.
Some sanity test should check the resolution because if it’s not there we might have a problem like the 25/1.4.
I have a simpler standard, needing a good walkaround prime, and so I’ll watch closely the 15/1.7. The Leica name however never bodes good news however 🙂
For next time, Pana should re-consider how to make luxury lens without “Leica” badge on it so that they can save license and thus may lower down the price.
Although Noct is stellar, it is not necessary to pay $1600 for a single prime. With this $1600 budget, there are more interesting options with equivalent IQ result.
+100. That’s the point.
Still not interested… not because of the price, but the FOV just isn’t useful for me.
Where is the 150/2.8? 🙁
The $1600 price of Noct makes Fuji’s 56/1.2 a super bargain. From now on, I will have to move my investment into XF system. Their lens and bodies keep evolving and are getting better and better.
Well if you have the cash to switch systems all the time why complain about the price.
Allthough the Fuji system has a nice line up it is nowhere near m43 usability wise.
IQ difference is highly overrated.
To each there own.
You have no idea what you’re talking about. I bet that you never used Fuji system. I recently have X-E2 and 35/1.4. The IQ if this combo makes me keep E-M5+25/1.4 at home. Don’t get me wrong. I have both but the IQ of Fuji system is really pleasing. The rendering is exceptional without digital feeling.
When considering price and weight of this little monster, it is kind of an interesting thought exercise to think about this compared to the Nikon 85mm f/1.8g (sorry to any of those who consider this trolling)
Nikon D800E + 85mm f/1.8g – Cost 3,500, Weight 1.35kg
Olympus EM-1 + 42.5 f/1.2 – Cost 3,000, Weight 0.92kg
So, the Nikon costs 16.5% more, and weighs 46% more. OK, you can argue that the Nikon doesn’t have VR and other EM-1 features, but then can also argue has better AF for moving subjects etc. I have both these cameras (unfortunately, neither of these lenses) and there really is something about the Nikon rendering that I love. As much as I love the EM-1, and as high quality as this new lens is, I find it hard to believe it will outdo the Nikon combo in terms of outright image quality).
Perhaps more interesting is to compare it to the new DF:
Nikon DF + 85mm f/1.8 – Cost 3,247, Weight 1.06kg
Now we have a 8% more expensive, and only 15% heavier camera/lens combo! Again, all sorts of other things to consider (after seeing them in real life, I find the DF fugly as hell)… but there’s no denying the awesome sensor in that thing.
(There’s numerous other comparisons could be made, using a GX7 instead of Em1, or a Nikon D610.. not to mention Canon etc)…
I was expecting to love this lens and to possibly get rid of both my Oly 75mm (I often find the focal length a bit too long for me) and 45 for it… but it’s not quite doing it for me.
If I didn’t already have some investment in Nikon FX, maybe it’d be much more appealing… but instead find myself looking at prices of the Nikon 85mm f/1.8G in the local shops instead. I got into m43s because I didn’t want to lug heavy cameras and lenses around day to day or when travelling and, really, the Olympus 45mm fits the bill perfectly for that.
A more reasonably priced and sized Panny 42.5 f1/.4 may have been much more tempting (for me) as a Oly 45 + 75 killer.
(Footnote: if the price of this does drop towards the 1,200 mark in future, my GAS will probably take over and I’ll acquire it anyway…)
I think both shallow DOF and deep DOF have their place, and I have m43, crop, and FF systems. but with this kind of aperture/focal length combination, one would be buying it for the shallow DOF. and for this kind of pricing, it’s easier to just use my FF system. like a lot of others, if the price was more reasonable, I could be tempted, but as of now, not really…
For those awaiting the Panasonic/Leica 15mm f1.7 lens . . . It will NOT be CHEAP.
If you have been awaiting the Pana/Leica 42.5mm f1.2 for over a year, and are now complaining that it’s price is ridiculous, You will NOT be a candidate for the 15mm lens either.
Come on, Bill-Me-Later/Paypal makes this type purchase EASY for those who are motivated.
I have a suggestion. Those who are now throwing a tantrum over Panasonic’s pricing of the new Leica Nocticron 42.5mm f1.2 lens; why don’t you build a world class product with your own wisdom and resourcefulness, and I’ll start a forum for all the knuckleheads to trash your best efforts.