WhatDigitalcamera posted the Leica DG Nocticron 42.5 f/1.2 First Look. And LLoyd Chambers writes quite an interesting note about the OIS feature of the lens:
I’m not a fan of optical stabilization, because it does not improve imaging performance and in this case, I’d want to use it on the Olympus E-M1, which has superb in-body image stabilization. So those extra lens elements just make the lens heavier and more expensive and more complex and more prone to alignment errors. Well, it is what it is.
Sure OIS doesn’t improve the IQ on Panasonic cameras???
P.S.: I take the chance to ask our European readers if they found any preorder option in Europe! I haven’t 🙁
53 Responses
for sure, extra elements required for OIS are DRAWBACKS to the image quality, though it might reduce hand blur.
Yes, that’s right, but to be honest I see it a little bit silly to complain about HAVING OIS in a lens! We all complain about lenses NOT HAVING it. Is it a definitely useful feature (either in the lens or in the body). The hit it might have in IQ (if it’s in the lens) it’s not something that the human eye can even detect.
And about price and weight, I also don’t think that OIS adds a lot to the price or weight of a lens, so I still think it’s a plus for any lens (even if your current camera has IBIS – who knows in the future what your camera will be).
What does this mean from the Panasonic blurb?:
“The popular 42.5 mm medium-telephoto focal distance (Equivalent to 85 mm on a 35 mm camera) is perfectly suited for portraits with rich stereoscopic effect.”
Pushing the definition of stereoscopic a bit aren’t they?
I still can’t get used to the price of this lens, especially when compared to the Olympus 75/1.8. That lens at $899 seems like a bargain compared to $1599 for this 42.5/1.2. And when you compare to the Olympus 45/1.8 at $399…well, it’s just getting silly. It’s NOT a Leica!
I would like to see a good reviewer do a shootout between the Olympus 45/1.8 and the Panasonic 42.5/1.2. We need to see what the extra $1200 gets us!
“The popular 42.5 mm medium-telephoto focal distance (Equivalent to 85 mm on a 35 mm camera) is perfectly suited for portraits with rich stereoscopic effect.”
-> I guess, in this context, ‘stereoscopic’ means being capable of producing blurry background that makes out the subject, or something…
a comparison with the 75mm is actually less fair for the Oly as its FL is less flexible then the 42,5 which already would have trouble in smaller rooms. A comparison with the 45mm f/1.8 would be more in line yes, but I have a feeling that most people expect that for the price, we should get more resolving power(while the Oly already scores excellent here). The extra stop, the OIS and the debatable involvement of Leica should explain the difference. I cant wait for the comments when especially the Ibelux 40mm f/0.85 will make its debut, compared with that lens, this Nocticron becomes suddenly a bargain 🙂
meant as reply on DonTom’s comment.
Hi Ulli. I agree the Panny 42.5 needs to be compared directly to the Olly 45. But price/construction, the 75/1.8 looks like good value now!
Of course, the real reason these exotic lenses cost so much is volume of production will be low, which makes the production cost/item high. This is probably why this lens took so long to come to market: the engineers will have been working on it in spare time, to avoid cost blow-outs!
Anyway, it’s all moot to me. I never planned on buying this lens anyway because:
-I already have the Olympus 45/1.8
-I have the E-M1, so don’t need the OIS
-I don’t want better resolution, as many of my subjects are on the “wrong” side of 40!
subjects on the wrong side of “40”? it took me a while to understand that this early in the morning 🙂
Panny will regret this silly pricing strategy ::shakes head::
normally the term “3D” is used for such desctiption in lenses performing well in this area.
meant as reply on mr. Park’s comment.
Ah the famous micro contrast Zeiss stuff?
now you mention it, yes..I think Zeiss and maybe Leitz too where the ones who started to be known for some of their lenses with this characteristic; not necessarily having the highest resolving power, but the ability to show details with higher contrast then normal, while still perfect for portrait photography, combined with selective point of focus very pleasant.
The 25/1.4 is a bargain compared to this expensive s*cker. You can buy an E-M5 (for IS) + 25/1,4 and have money left.
Stupid move by Panasonic!
and then you make exactly the same fotos as with 43 mm and f1.2? sure..
Seeing as Panasonic has begun to adopt IBIS with it’s GX7, is there a possibility that a MkII version will be produced minus it’s O.I.S. which to me is a waste of time and a total deal-breaker. It cannot possibly compete with the Voigtlander for Olympus users, who could almost purchase the venerated 50mm 1.5 Nokton with the change.
Olympus users use Olympus lenses.
Most use a mixture of Panny and Olympus lenses.
That’s the advantage of having more than one manufacturer involved in the system.
I would also use a mixture of Panny and Olympus cameras if they had the same UI but stick with Olympus because I’m used to their way of doing things (I do own an old G3 though).
The only Oly lens I have is the 75mm. I love the panasonic lenses and have learned to work around some of their foibles on my E-P5.
MkII??
I don’t think M43 will be around by the time a MkII comes out.
Well then he should wait for Olympus to release a 42mm f1.2 without the complexities of OIS. Can’t really understand someone complaining about its inclusion.
Admin, when are you going to post about the GH 4K being shown at CES and being priced under $2000? You have been saying it will be $2700.
i dont know if already mentioned, but when you look at the price difference (at dutch stores) in Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 (115 euros) vs Canon EF 50mm f/1.2L (1329 euros),the Nocticron’s price seems less over the top.
I think you should actually compare the pricing of the 85mm f1.8 and 85 mm f 1.2 L II; the latter ist some 6x more expensive. The Nocticron with its 1600 USD is just 4x more expensive than the Zuiko 45 mm (399 USD)
yes you are rigth.
I, for one, am looking forward to seeing a shoot-out: PanaLeica 42.5/1.2 vs. Nokton 42.5/0.95 vs. Olympus 45/1.8
Until then it’s difficult to say more about this lens …
This may not be a Leica but it probably performs better than a Leica, especially considering price.
Only the Gx7 has IBIS and we don’t know if Panny will keep this IBIS in the gx line only or evolve it into other lines.
The price of this lens will drop in a few months and street prices won’t be much more than a nokton m43 lens.
It’s an blazing fast AF lens, with exceptional build and optical quality and that doesn’t come cheap regardless of mount.
The video was just boring fluff…
Bring on info about the new Oly 25mm!
yet another idiot. OIS doesnt add extra elements
Ummm, why does the word “Optical” lead the acronym then? Do some research before you shoot your mouth off……especially if you are going to accuse someone else of being an idiot. Leaves you a little exposed.
In case you can’t manage your own research….
From here: http://www.dcresource.com/reviews/panasonic/dmc_fz30-review/
is:
“Buried deep inside the FZ30’s lens is an optical image stabilizer. If you look toward the middle-right side of the cutaway above, you can see the part of that lens that actually moves to counteract the effects of “camera shake”. You know the phenomenon: you take a picture indoors and it’s blurry. Or, you’re at the full telephoto end of the lens and your photo just isn’t sharp, despite a seemingly fast shutter speed. By moving that lens element around, the FZ30 can get sharp photos at slower shutter speeds than on an unstabilized camera.”
Here’s a link to the cutaway mentioned above:
http://www.dcresource.com/reviews/panasonic/dmc_fz30-review/camera-ois-cutaway.jpg
You’re welcome….
I thought the optical bit meant it moved one of the existing elements rather than inserting an additional element(s) for IS. I’m not saying you’re wrong, just what OIS meant to me.
– Colin
Colin, I think it would be difficult to make a focusing lens element multi-purpose like that. I’m not an optical engineer though, that looked too hard to me at university! At least the Canon system seems to mention an extra group:
“The sensors analyze vibrations and apply correction via a special stabilizing lens group that shifts the image parallel to the focal plane. ” ( http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/consumer/standard_display/Lens_Advantage_IS )
Admin: You asked who the trolls are. Here’s one. Get this Ip address and banish him please.
The price is high, but compare it with the pana 12-35 or 35-100. When released they were close to 1300$, and are now around 1000$, so this top lens’s price has to be higher. Lets wait 6 months en probably we’ll see it around 1200$-1300$.
Admin: Haven’t see any preorder in European distributors 🙁 (wont buy it anyway :D)
I think there’s one thing missing from this lens to justify its high price. It doesn’t have the hard stop focusing ring ability ala the Olympus 12mm. I’m not an Olympus fanboy by any means, I collect lenses from both companies pretty evenly, but for $1600 this lens should have everything.
And am I the only one who wishes this was a 50mm instead? I’ve used Canon 50mm FDs since I got my GH1 and am so accustomed to that FOV. That, I admit, is a minor, personal gripe.
Get the Panasonic Leica DG Summilux 25mm f/1.4 then 🙂
he says he uses canon 50mm fd on his GH before. I wonder if anyone can see the difference between 42.5mm and 50mm.
Yeah, I know. I honestly think I would since I shoot so much at 50mm.
Ok. Here’s a tip for optics and probably my best guess. An optical group for OIS does not necessary introduce more elements. Because whoever designs the optical group is doing it such that the optical quality does not degrade too much even when the optical group gets decentered to compensate for shake. A crucial part of any lens design is that the lens designed must be able to deliver the intended results even when there’s decentering errors during assembly and they do go as far as do Monte Carlo simulations for that. So no, it is debatable whether OIS will or will not introduce more optical elements. It will probably make the design more complex but no, not necessarily more.
So as usual, as the saying goes, if you don’t know anything of worth to say, shut the fuck up. 😀
So…..you hate idiots? Good for you. You start your comment by offering your “best guess”. You finish it by telling us to “F…k up” if we don’t know what we are talking about.
So, what is your statement? A guess, or certain knowledge? Are you an expert or an idiot, or something in between?
I have a Physics degree? What do you have? A degree for sweeping the floor? Sorry. I have every right to insult inferiors, especially on the internet.
What do I have? The ability to recognise bullshit when I see it. Do you have a physics degree or not? Because you phrased it as a question.
And no, I don’t have a degree in floor-sweeping. I didn’t need to go to school to learn to clean my floor.
Also, you haven’t answered my question. Was your statement above a statement of fact, or a guess?
and now you should get a degree in Manners & Respect.
Cha-Ching!!
do you know the meaning of that word, in my mother’s language its not nice to say that.
You kid are one of the smartest writers in this forum. Beside the desperate attempts to rescue a doomed system and the appalling English, this place needs a bit of wars to really get cracking. I am still laughing.
Who says the “extra” lens elements are in there for OIS only? Maybe they have a double function, as most high quality lenses have a lot of elements.
The other comment is “interesting” as well. “I’m not a fan of optical stabilization, because it does not improve imaging performance”. It DOES improve overall imaging performance, at some cost(how much this is, is to bee sen is real tests). If you have your camera mounted on a solid tripod, disable it. If you don’t like it, just disable it(automatically on Oly body’s).
Ir ALWAYS better to have the option rather then not having it. Seeing it as a disadvantage is strange.
Tried this lens at ces. This one is going to be a killer lens. The rep says this would be sharper than any other m43 lens. It also has a rounded 9 blade aperture ring.
But for the scary part. Expect this lens to be around $1700+. The rep would say the exact price but he said ‘under $2000, more than $1500’
Here’s two pre-orders from Wex and Park Cameras in the UK:
http://www.wexphotographic.com/buy-panasonic-42-5mm-f1-2-asph-leice-dg-noticron-o-i-s-lens/p1547291
http://www.parkcameras.com/27339/Panasonic-LEICA-DG-NOCTICRON-42-5mm-f-1-2-ASPH–POWER-O-I-S.html
Sure, Llyod Chambers knows a lot more than I do, but agreed, his dismissive comments about OIS are obviously written by someone who shoots primarily landscapes using a tripod.
“I’m not a fan of optical stabilization, because it does not improve imaging performance”
Hm, So he’s saying that when you mount a lens on the GX7 and it switches from IBIS to OIS, Panasonic is intentionally making your shots prone to errors?
Taking a look at his blog posts for the past 2 months, I see nothing on any Panasonic Cameras, besides a grip add on for the GM1 and a couple lenses that he uses on his Olympus bodies.
He’s looking like a Olyfanboy to me…
Here you can preorder in the Netherlands:
http://www.cameratools.nl/lenzen-objectieven/vast-brandpunt-objectieven/panasonic-leica-dg-nocticron-42-5mm-f-1/
€ 1499