Image courtesy: Camerasize.com.
New Panasonic GX7 sales:
Before to make you the deadly question here is the full GX7 preorder list. The camera is still the most ordered camera at Amazon ranking (can be seen here). Click on store to preorder and see price and delivery info:
Silver GX7 body at Amazon US, BHphoto, Adorama, Samys and Wex UK and Amazon Japan.
Silver GX7 with 14-42mm lens at Amazon, BHphoto, Adorama, Samys and WexUK and Amazon Japan.
Black GX7 body at Wex UK and Amazon Japan.
Black GX7 with 14-42mm lens at Wex UK.
Black GX7 with 20mm lens at Wex UK and Amazon Japan.
Silver GX7 with 20mm lens at Wex UK and Amazon Japan.
E-P5 or GX7. That’s the question!
I now this will look bad for Olympus. But I want to know how bad the situation is 🙂 Both cameras do cost $999. So tell me….
[poll id=”203″]
222 Responses
@admin Any rumors about 4/3 mount E-7? I’m dying to hear some news.
JD. Coming next week. 100% guarantee 🙂
Actually there is a surprise (if rumor I got will be confirmed).
Puuuh, for some holidays this is. 😉
The surprise is, there is no E7
Is the surrprise, all trolls know.
That’s what I’m waiting to hear about. 🙂
I would love to see the rumored mirrorless 4/3 E-7 with 24MP, 5-axis IBIS, etc., along with some updated versions of those sweet Zuiko lenses. 🙂
we can all keep dreaming, it’ll be 16mpix. Have we ever seen Olympus change sensors that quickly? Hasn’t the norm been to get 1 new sensor and put it in every single body type for multiple iterations for multiple years before repeating the process? The 16MP Sony sensor isn’t that old yet. 🙁
If they put a 24MP sensor in the E-7 that thing would sell like hotcakes.
Keep on dreaming the 16 is already to much for m43. Pictures are not that good. 24 would be overkill for 43 sensor. If you want more and better go bigger APSC or FF.
You’re right that 24MP is too much for a 4/3 sized sensor, but totally wrong that the 16 MP images aren’t good enough.
As for resolution, unless you’re making 30×40 prints, or don’t know how to impose your photos (so that you’re constantly cropping 70% of the images out), 16MP is enough for any normal sized print or monitor.
Well, disregarding the last 15 years of progress in image sensors (which resulted in higher and higher densities with less and less noise) which isn’t about to stop, that comment is, well, utter crap.
However, I agree in practice: for m43 I believe the mantra that 12mp is enough and 16mp is a nice margin for cropping. For those that crave pixels, have a look at the noisy nex-7 (with its big, bad, humongous APS-C sensor 🙂
Think he meant about diffraction limits and looks like there is still some room for more mps, not like i want more myself.
“noisy nex-7 (with its big, bad, humongous APS-C sensor :-)”
The Nex 7 is better than the E-M5 in all ways higher DR , higher Colour Depth , and even slightly better high ISO along with higher resolution. With higher resolution you have the advantage of more detail and more flexibility with NR if you wish
As I said: have a ball!
ROTFLMAO!!!
That’s “why” D4 sales so badly while D800 and Nokia are sold like hot cake??
C’mon! This is the year 2013. We all should grow up and stop talking about “more pixels, better cam” anymore.
Uumm…the d4 doesnt sell because 1. the sensor turned out to be a disappointment compared to both the d3 and the d800. And 2. The d 4 is more tham twice the price of a d800
More bull from the tiny sensor guys lol , the D4 has better high ISO , better DR , better colour and higher resolution than the D3
http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Cameras/Compare-Camera-Sensors/Compare-cameras-side-by-side/%28appareil1%29/767|0/%28brand%29/Nikon/%28appareil2%29/438|0/%28brand2%29/Nikon
Correction… :/
“I would love to see the rumored mirrorless 4/3 E-7 with 24MP, 5-axis IBIS, etc., along with some updated versions of those sweet Zuiko lenses.”
should read…
I would love to see the rumored 4/3 E-7 with mirrorless, 24MP, 5-axis IBIS, etc., along with some updated versions of those sweet Zuiko lenses.
The mirror, etc. needs to stay until they find a way to make mirror-less bodies work well for sports photography, I need something that works.
Mirror-less bodies are fine for casual work where speed isn’t an issue. I like my GH3 but when it all comes down, it’s the E-5 that gets me the shots I want.
Have you big problem by mirror in camera?
Mirror -> incompatible with m43… (probably)
mirror causes systematical error on autofocus, that’s what I suffer on my E-5
They’re both nice for different reasons but I’ll keep using my E-M5 (for now).
GX7 wins on features / price, but we need to wait if it performs as well as the Oly in terms of IQ. That Venus engine is not so good, whereas Olympus is using a Sony sensor with one of the better processing engines. That is a tough combo to beat so an in-depth review and comparison are needed to make a meaningful decision.
As they say on tv, too close to call.
I think it’s more about the sensor because although Olympus’ engine is great, if you shoot RAW, that won’t matter so much.
Engine??? What’s that? 😛
Says a raw shooter! 😉 Do you know, you might catch a cold shooting in the raw too often? 😀
C’mon now…at the current prices…it’s GX7 ALL THE WAY!
only if you want a stickyouty built in evf
if you prefer 5-axis IBIS then its Oly all that way …
But still not E-P5 – but the E-M5.
yeah…I think it should be more of a comparison with the OMD….that is a closer call!
Exactly. E-M5 >> GX7 > E-P5.
Yeah…my OMD is sweet….but I have not held an GX7 yet…
Focus peaking
ISO 100
1/8000 shutter
Higher res screen
Higher res EVF
I’ll take the E-P5, thank you.
dCap…but the price of the EP5 with viewfinder is so out there???? ..and talk about sticky outy..holy crap!!!!!!!!!!!..The VF on the EP5 (although it is supposed to be stellar!), looks like a boyle on a leper!…so lets be fair…also..we have to find out how good the Pany IS is ….which is an unknown at this point. ..but for price and features…the Pany is a landslide.
Then its Oly all the way.
I can see them making a 8MP camera with ibis and the blind faithful will sing its praises.
8MB is more than enough for websites..
> I now this will look bad for Olympus.
Why do you think so? The E-P5 lacks the EVF, but apart from that, it’s on par on most parts and even better in some others (Live Bulb/Time, 5-Axis IBIS, unbeaten colors and jpeg engine, just to name a few).
Personally i like the addon VF-4 better anyway. Bigger magnification, and true 2.3M dots rather than some field-sequential equivalent.
I would choose the e-P5 over the GX7, not for lack of, but for the features that fit my needs. My e-P2 replaced a DSLR & I feared not having a VF. Because I don’t like LCDs to compose, ever. But my film cameras never had great VFs either, Leica III, my Diax, Retina, all had squinty little VFs. The PEN was a very slight learning curve. Both cameras have pop up flashes, & I hate that. But the GX7 w/the flash & the hinged EVF; it’s top is too much of a entry point for wet/ dirty/ dust/ sand etc. W/a VF4 I can remove or use depending on the need. 5 axis IBIS, LiveBulb, I like the OLY RAW IQ output over PAN’s & I don’t care much about video. Every reason is a personal preference, of course, not a sell to others. We have choices, that’s the bonus!
Even setting aside the EVF, the GX7 still has a number of benefits over the E-P5: better video, _much_ better WiFi, etc. Some things probable but unknown are better low-light auto focus, better focus peaking, in camera panorama. Feature per feature, while some may just be fun, it thus far looks like the GX7 wins outside the IBIS and JPEG engine. The ergonomics on the GX7 look better too.
Personally, I’d probably buy the GX7 for the ability to use full control and video recording with WiFi alone. And for me the EVF is more a minus than a plus, given the extent of the protrusion…
Why is progress so slow? It might be a little unfair to compare a electronic camera with old style black boxes for analog film. But at least they are cameras both. So, why is this GX7 with a much smaller sensor as heavy as a good old full frame Nikon FE* from 1978?
* http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/fe.htm
+111
I ask the same question. And wonder why 135mm format digital cameras are so insanely big and heavy. My Nikon FM2n is about the same size as my GH2.
It looks like Sony will come to the rescue in that regard with an interchangeable lens RX1… but for $2800? YIKES!
This is like asking, “Why is a 2013 VW Beetle so much heaver than a good old 1963 VW Beetle?” Theyr’e completely different things, and the 2013 edition is better in every way except in the minds of fatuous nostalgists.
Thank you for those words on non-idiocy. Not easy to come by these days.
fact is that the old beetle can survive in rough environment, simple but very reliable boxer engine. But i still managed to blow up mine lol.
Really? There are technological differences between cars and camera models made 50 years apart? Amazing!
Obviously the technology is vastly different!
I actually learned to drive in a ’63 Bug… or was it a ’70 Volvo? Hmmm…
We all know about Volvo drivers though. 😉 😀
“I ask the same question. And wonder why 135mm format digital cameras are so insanely big and heavy. My Nikon FM2n is about the same size as my GH2.”
The answer hasn’t changed much: battery size. Larger sensors consume more power thus require bigger battery. Also, larger sensors require larger lenses with heavier glass which again to move around (during AF) requires more power. Also, writing to flash card also consumes quite a lot of power. Also, advanced RAW PP (like noise suppression, point of black adjustment) require faster chips which also normally require more power. Or, and also you need a place inside the camera for all the goodies.
[sigh] Unbelivable about this question!
It had been asked and ANSWERED for years. Why not google before asking -again- ??
FM2 and almost all 135 film cams need only a little bit of electronics support. Digitals DO require. Film needs NO in-camera data processing, digital lives on it. More data requires more processing power. More processing power demand more physical electronic parts and more electrical power. Snow ball.
You’re definitely right and I keep making the same question over and over again. Although heavier because the materials it used, my Olympus OM-4 is quite smaller than my E-5. Technology evolution doesn’t seem to be a reasonable answer, otherwise it should tend to be smaller, lighter and smarter as everything else in consumer goods.
“I ask the same question. And wonder why 135mm format digital cameras are so insanely big and heavy.”
They are not: a Leica M9 or Sony RX1 can be quite compact.
The reason why Canon and Nikon produce these massive beasts (D600, 5D, 6D) is because they appeal to morons. Bigger is better (and significantly cheaper than a Leica or Sony).
what is inside a film camera body and what is inside the digital camera?
if you think the 35mm film camera has anything more that just a roll, throw away all those digital processers and circuit board and use a film camera.
stupid questions all around. amen
I think that part of the problem may be that many people or perhaps mostly men associate big heavy cameras with quality. You’ve only got to read the comments on forums… anything made of “plastic” or light and compact is dismissed as a toy. Real Men need big heavy cameras, apparently.
how many electrical parts in the Nikon FE
was size was the battery
did it have a 3″ touch sensitive viewfinder
did it shoot at 9fps
did it have live bulb
did it have AF
did it have image stabilizer
was iso 1600 film anywhere near as good as digital 1600
did you have instant playback of images
etc. ……………..
dCap wrote:
> how many electrical parts in the Nikon FE
> was size was the battery
I don’t care. I want a tool to make photos. A small lightweight tool. There must be a reason why the most used cameras are smartphones these days.
> did it have a 3″ touch sensitive viewfinder
Nope. But a very good viewfinder indeed – still to todays standards.
> did it shoot at 9fps
> did it have live bulb
I don’t need
> did it have AF
Focusing with the FE was fast and accurate.
> did it have image stabilizer
Some progression was achieved in the last 35 years 🙂 Though the inbodystabilisation of my Olympus E-PM 2 is best switched off, if I like predictable output.
was iso 1600 film anywhere near as good as digital 1600
Only in black & white, but with a very nice grain 😉
> did you have instant playback of images
Me, I wouldn’t need a display. A good electronic viewfinder is all I need to take & review pictures. Though, a fast connection to my smartphone for presentation purposes would be highly welcome.
Probably the all-metal body.
Compare the thickness of a complete sensor assembly to the thickness of a piece of film. Then compare the amount of other electronics in the body to that Nikon. Then compare the size of the battery needed to power all that.
Did the Nikon have an LCD? That takes up space, too.
Your comparing Apples and Pineapples. Just because they’re both “apples” (cameras), doesn’t make them similar.
That’s actually very logical.
can’t wait for either of these to hit sub-$500 next year….hehe…
Sure, keep waiting. After all, nothing worth photographing is going to happen between now and next year.
$500 is probably wishful, but I can see the e-p5 dropping sooner than that because of pressure from the gx1.
oops, i mean gx7
very true…
For me it’s simple. I use an EVF almost all the time, so the GX7 is a better buy since the EVF is built in.
For people who use the back-panel monitor much of the time, the E-P 5 would be a better choice since it’s (seemingly) a bit smaller, and they can still add an excellent EVF for the times they want one.
The arguments about image quality are mere hair-splitting. Either of them is likely to be as good as I need. Feature set, controls, and handling determine your ability to respond to picture-taking opportunities; IQ is only a tie-breaker.
Love THE design of the Panasonic especially the Evf
But I have learned to appreciate the oly Jpeg engine
But agin that could be cancelled out by using raw and some bigger cf cards…
Ok as long as there is no decent e5 successor meaning either able to work super with swd glass or swd m43 quality lenses I will have to wait and see
hmmm this one is very hard admin!
I had a look at some video from the GX7 and wow! But I’m still going to wait for Oly to bring out their high end.
I’ve always been an olympus fan but in this case I had to vote gx7. Well done panasonic.
Agree, and this is good for M43 system anyway, but i will have an E-P5 to next year.
But first is the E-7 😉
Even though it’s not an issue for both, I like one tiny detail on GX7 over EP5, that mounth ring is positioned a bit more to top. With my tiny GF3 when I mount 12-35 I can’t attach it to tripod. Lens simply overflows the bottom by 3mm.
I dont know if you can tell from these photos. To me, it looks like the e-p5 mount is further from the bottom of the camera. But probably, neither camera will have an issue – because they are both bigger than the gf3.
how can one choose if the GX7 has not yet been tested for IQ? or I have missed sth…
Because the differences in IQ are overblown. Both of these cameras will be able to take brilliant quality images. One might be slightly better than the other in one respect or another, but the slight differences will not make up for the skill of the user.
anyone recall those rumorse that was depicting the end of Olymus and mirrorless m4/3 cameras of 2-3 years ago? 🙂
nice to see how great and nice the m4/3 camera and lens line up is growing!
both are great cameras…iamtempted to sell my GH2 for one of those… 🙂
I don’t like either of them in chrome. Put some black ones up there and I would take the Pany, otherwise I’ll stick with my matte black G6 – I love this camera.
Only one GX7 is also in black.
Yes, but the black GX7 is only available in Japan. Stupid move on Panasonic’s part IMO.
Black is available in Europe for sure.
For me, the GX7 has to beat the OM-D, not the E-P5.
+1 Gx7 vs OMD and GH3 vs OMD PRO
ADMIN: after 2 years Olympus has also to replace the E-M5. Sony will do the same with NEX 7. Will there be no replacement?!?!
E-M5 came out in April 2012…
Wow E-M5 is that old already?
Do the Panasonic GX7 and the Olympus E-P5 both support in-body image stabilization in video mode?
E-P5 IBIS works in video, should be even better than E-M5 (which is close to perfect as it is).
GX7 IBIS does not work in video according to Imaging Resource’s review:
http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/panasonic-gx7/panasonic-gx7A.HTM
“It’s also important to note that the body-based stabilization system is not used for video capture.”
How about a comparison with EM-5?
i prefere the Oly but have to buy the Pana-> EFV (!!) & Panorama..
your comment makes no sense?
I think he’s trying to say (but not very well) that he prefers the Olympus camera(s) but will buy the GX7 for the built in EVF & panoramic function.
How about a 3rd option: Neither is better than the other?
Same price if I buy the EP-5 kit and sell the lens.
Different feature sets.
For me, I prefer the bigger view of VF-4, 5-axis IBIS, and live bulb.
It’s easy to carry and remove the EVF on my E-P5 and i have space for my face…doubt about GX7.
Also i prefer centered mount…
but GX7 look pretty good and i’m happy micro 4/3 grow up.
Now i waiting for review but i save my money for Nocticron ,maybe E-M7 or GX8 with really better sensor.
I doubt the GX7 will compete with the Olympus 5 axis stabilization; nor the colour & general rendering (the smooth way Olympus deals with clipped highlights is as close to film as I’ve seen).
My biggest beef with Panasonic is unnatural cobalt-hued skies!
I also adore the E-P5’s flip lever — so 4, not 2, parameters are easily controlled with the two control dials.
Panasonic’s new tilting EV looks mighty dandy — a distinct win.
But what most I envy in the QX-7 is the grip! The E-P5’s is sadly lacking when heavier lenses are mounted.
+1
> I also adore the E-P5′s flip lever — so 4, not 2, parameters are easily controlled with the two control dials.
The GX1 had a clickable control wheel that would let you toggle between two parameters. I gather that the GX7 kept that design while adding a second dial. We’ll have to wait for reviews to see how it works exactly, but you should be able to control 3 or 4 parameters on the GX7 as well.
I would like to see the faces of all the people that have said that fitting an EVF into an E-P5 sized camera was impossible without making it Fuji X sized, just the other week I had to make a long post with schematics and whatnot just to prove the naysayers that it was possible, oh how silent are they now.
The GX7 proves that Oly is too stubborn and blind to see the market demands, simply put the GX7 is a much better deal all around, feature and price-wise. The only 3 features that stand out from the E-P5 is the 5 axis IBIS , SCP and Live Bulb. I have no problem settling for 2 axis IBIS, It has worked pretty fine for me for these past 3 years, Live Bulb is a really nice feature that I will honestly miss and SCP is just awesome. Having said that, there’s no way I’m paying $1500 for a camera that offers no functional advantage over my PL1, I haven’t waited this long just to upgrade to a camera that also needs an add-on. If I really need those Oly feature I’ll just get a PM2 on the cheap as a 2nd body to the GX7.
It’s just as simple as this: The E-P5 just doesn’t make any sense at that price, let alone when the GX7 can be had with EVF with no extra $. Even if the GX7 IQ is as bad as my E-PL1, it still wouldn’t make sense to me.
…now, can you imagine takeing of your old EVF selling it on eBay, and then buying a new one with a highr resolution… is this a nice feature to have. Would be nice to have the same option with the lcd panel on the back.
“I would like to see the faces of all the people that have said that fitting an EVF into an E-P5 sized camera was impossible without making it Fuji X sized, just the other week I had to make a long post with schematics and whatnot just to prove the naysayers that it was possible, oh how silent are they now.”
Panasonic has nicely squeezed an EVF in by trimming a little off the bottom of the display screen frame & a section out of the top left (the E-M5 has it out of the centre) & then the EVF eyecup is a fairly tight design to fit in that space as well as using separate colour scans to achieve the high resolution (that probably isn’t the correct term) which is a compromise to some extent & also there is no accessories port that Olympus cameras use under the hot shoe, taking away the space for the buttons that Pana have there & I still say, as stubborn as you may think Olympus is, that a PEN with this design would probably need to be at least 2-3mm higher again (based on measurements from the E-M5). Who knows, they still might surprise us with that design yet & they may achieve it by squeezing things into place too.
GX7 is demolishing, 3 to 1!
Of course I vote for GX7 .
The problem with EP5 is not really have big features in it especially for someone who did exprienced the EM5 before . The EP5 should have build in view finder as the GX7 if Olympus really want to make the PEN stand up but it won’t .
If you look at the innovation factor , Pana in my opinion always ahead than Olympus .
Not doubt the GX7 will sell well than EP5 just like GX1 over EP3 . Till OMD Pro come up , history likely to repeat itself again .
The grip is better on GX7
indeed… I use the large grip on my EP3 all the time and the lack of interchangeable grip on the EP5 is a real fly in the ointment for me.
The only reason why I voted for GX7 is crappy video in P5.
Best,
Arabela
in the UK
– the body only price of the GX7 is less than the EP5
– the 14-42 kit version is cheaper in Pan
– the GX7/20 kit is a lot less than the EP5/17/evf
but if I was in the market … I’d get the EM5 instead its cheaper than either of the other bodies
waiting to see how significant the new GX7 sensor with new engine is in the equation
5 axis IBIS and focus peaking makes the E-P5 best for me and my manual lenses.
so you are a super-duper Oly Fanboy maniac.
Maybe you haven’t tried the E-M5 (& E-P5) to know how good & effective the 5 axis IS is.
BTW, the GX7 only goes up to 10 X magnified view while Oly cameras go up to 14 X. Just a thought.
We do, neither camera can “win” That is just sillyness. Would I be willing to sacrifice a built in EVF for the 5-axis IBIS? I may if I already have the VF2 for example.
and if you want both EVF & 5axis ibis ….. EM5
The benefit of 5-ibis over gx7 ibis is quite overrated. But the benefit of a high resolution built in evf along with silent mode is way more or more photographic situations that whatever difference you get from 5axis ibis vs ibis.
lol. That supposed to say raist, not racist :-p
You have nice things on your mind :p
Of course! 🙂
Note that the poll question wasn’t “Which is better?” but “Which would you buy?”
The only reason why I voted for EP5 is crappy handheld video in GX7.
GX7 cannot compete with the EP5 5 Axis steady-cam like handheld video.
Best,
Bryan
Too bad you were wrong about that. Look at the post from John H., below.
oly has not even the bigger EFV… so why should i take the e-p5.
only because of the 5 axis ibis ( the missing pano mode)
Compare the specs. The VF-4 has higher magnification and longer eye relief. That means the image you see in the FV-4 is larger, and you can more easily see the whole image without pressing your eye against the eyepiece, especially if you wear glasses.
Also the VF-4 has full colour for each refresh scan whereas the GX7 scans each colour separately which can be prone to colour tearing (for fast movements).
If I had to choose, I would take the GX-7 over the E-P5(or E-M5). But in my life, I’ll wait for PDAF, and put up with my VF-2 & E-PL1. I do enjoy the tilt of the VF-2, but f*^k it’s ugly….
M43 is dead ! Mostly with the new nex system FF who will want that tiny sensor this cameras are for girls
So you are saying that you approach guys with your BIG sensor? Good to know.. Lol
Nex ff body only is rumored at around 3000 $. I say body only because itll launch with 0 lenses. If they havent launched a decent line of lenses for their aps nex yet (yeeeeears into it) what do you think is gonna happen with their ff line? While you wait for that ill take some photos with my fully developed m43s system and even some adapted with a speed booster.
So you were saying?
And FF is for “men” with small…. imaginations?
Apparently you have no imagination, because you don’t seem to understand just how big the lenses for that mirrorless system are going to be. If, that is, Sony actually gets around to manufacturing any good ones for it. They’ll probably expect you to use an adapter with existing Alpha mount lenses. 🙂
the first lens is officially a 35mm f2.8, they said it cant be any faster or itll be to big. If thats a prelude of things to come the next ff will have a hefty line up of slow lenses. hahahhahaha
Imaging Resource writes about the Panasonic GX7 IBIS that:
“It’s also important to note that the body-based stabilization system is not used for video capture.”
This makes it impossible to have image stabilization when video filming with a good prime lens like Panasonic 25mm f1.4 on GX7 (whereas it’s possible on for example Olympus E-P5).
Has anybody heard about any other camera with sensor-shift stabilization system that cannot be used for video capture?
Can this really be true?
Is this because Panasonic can’t make it work, or is because they don’t want it to work?
Source:
http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/panasonic-gx7/panasonic-gx7A.HTM
I think this is norm for most sensor-shift systems. Olympus’ high-end 5-axis system is the exception. If you look at the 2-axis IBIS that Olympus uses on E-PL5, etc, that system can’t be used for video either. They implement some sort of video image processing stabilization instead.
Thanks, interesting. I found some more information at Image Resource, this time about E-PL5:
“Olympus E-PL5 Video: Image Stabilization
The E-PL5 does feature a form of image stabilization for Movie Mode, but it’s different than the IS mode used for still images. In still image modes, the E-PL5 uses Sensor Shift technology to physically move the sensor to compensate for minor camera movements and shakes. In movie modes or while recording any video, the camera uses a digital image stabilization technique that crops in on the image and digitally moves the “crop” around the sensor surface to counteract camera movements.
”
Source:
http://www.imaging-resource.com/CAMDB/print_page.php?directory=olympus-epl5&page=video&model_name=Olympus%20PEN%20E-PL5
Ouch!..
But then again, if you’re that obsessed about video, why would you want an Olympus (I’m an Olympus PL1 user so don’t take this as Pany fanboyism)? Oly is still way behind Pany in terms of video so the huge advantage of 5 Axis IBIS is lost when using their rudimentary video. Also, if you’re serious about video you would get a steady cam, as good as the 5 axis is it’s still better to stabilize externally for video.
I don’t agree with that statement. I just migrated from a G3 to the E-P5 and one of the chief selling points for me was the stabilized video. I was sick and tired of my G3’s shaky video (with either unstabilized lens or when OIS was turned off). Even with Oly’s limited video options, stabilized 1080p30 is very nice for family videos… And much, much nicer than my G3. Hopefully the GX7 will try to do something for video stabilization, otherwise that would be a pretty strong negative in my view.
Why would you turn OIS off to shoot video? Were you trying to find an excuse to buy something different?
LOL – no, I don’t need an excuse to buy something different. My G3 served me well for 2.5 years. I wanted to step up into a newer sensor and the OMD never really did it for me.
In my experience with multiple m43 cameras, using image stabilization (IBIS or OIS) in scenarios where you don’t actually need it leads to softer images best case and ruined pictures worst case (think shutter-shock issues). And since 98% of my pictures are in bright daylight and fast shutter speeds, I prefer to keep stabilization off and only enable it when I need it. Hence on my G3 I was always flipping OIS on and off as I switched between stills and video. One of the unexpected things that I really like about the E-P5 is that it has separate IBIS enables for stills and video: I can leave video IBIS on all the time and leave stills IBIS off most of the time.
And finally the 20mm is my standard walk-around lens and the lack of video stabilization on my G3 really was annoying.
…to your actual question – there were many times with the kit lens where I would be shooting stills with OIS off and then start shooting a video without remembering to go and turn OIS on.
Bummer!
omd vs. gx7 ?
i would definitely go for omd.
I’m sure not many people have actually held the GX7 and yet voted for it because of the EVF. While a good value compared to the E-P5, IMO I like not having an EVF poke at me all the time, and i know what the 5-axis is capable of.
Same price actually if you buy the EP-5 kit and sell the lens and keep the EVF.
Show top view admin, for someone who pays attention to the size, it’s important.
In my opinion Pana did it wrong with EVF. I was always for what GX1 proposed – optional EVF for lower costs. I would prefer we have GX7 without EFV for 700-750 USD and an option to buy it. Hope the new GX will share GX7 specs but does not have EVF and it’s cheaper 🙂
Now that’s rare around these parts!
Suddenly nobody wants one. Suddenly the clip on vf AND flash are a better solution.
Yes, actually I was always against interated VF for GX1 successor 🙂
I’m not a great fan of EVF though the tiltable one it a nice feature which I would like to have as an option.
You’re one of the few, I think. The clamor for an RF format camera with built-in EVF has reached deafening levels over the years.
Oh, and there are lots of pictures of the top of the camera. Just use Google, or look back a day or two here.
Yes, I know that was actually my point. GX7 is noticably thicker than E-P5 (which is overpriced anyway). I used GX1 as carry everywhere and I actually wished it to be a little bit thiner therefore I’m not perfectly happy with GX7. With it’s size I’m now looking at Fuji offerings too as they are comparable in terms of size.
Oh, and there are lots of pictures of the top of the camera. Just use Google, or look back a day or two here.
Are you serious !? Compared to the price of the EVF-less E-P5 you’re getting the EVF for free on the GX7, so price is not an excuse anymore (the EVF also doesn’t add much price on the NEXs or Fujis). There has always been options for people who don’t need an EVF, there are the GF, PM, PL and P series cameras, THERE WERE NONE for people who wanted built in EVF without having to go faux-DSLR, you OTOH have 4 lines of cameras, what more do you want !? I’m glad Panasonic, unlike Oly, didn’t listen to people like you.
They I actually listening to them – the next GX camera is rumored to be a tiny one..
Sure, but not at the expense of the GX7. I’m ok with having many different choices of cameras, some people are not, they like to force other people into THEIR preference instead of opening up to diversity so that everyone gets what they need. I’m ok with Pany doing a mini GX as long as they also make the GX7 for people who would find such camera a unacceptable.
Its basicly EVF vs better Jpg engine.
As I never used my evf on my NEX7, I’ll take the Ep5’s superior colour pallete thanks 🙂
While the idea of an EVF was great, and after owning the OM-D for awhile. I found myself rarely using it and it was annoying the hell out of me because it protrudes.
The OM-D was awesome but having that tech in a PEN body was exactly what i wanted. With the GX7 having a tilt-able EVF, It’s going to be even more annoying.
Shooting a picture while squinting your eye into a small piece of glass is totally counterintuitive to shooting using the display and touch shooting.
You people are just crazy, I can understand opting for EVF-Less bodies as secondary cameras, like the PM2 or GF6, but willingly opting for such as your main camera ? And worse yet, for a crazy expensive premium flagship ? WHAT!? unless you’re trying to save some cash I can’t understand that argument.
It makes perfect sense to me. Sans EVF for casual, vacation shooting and attach it when it’s too sunny or when i need to do “pro” work?
The E-P5 is perfect for an enthusiast like me as it can be a weekend warrior and a professional just with the clip of an EVF. That’s the only reason why i sold my OMD because the EVF was so annoying for casual use because it keeps poking me.
Another thing i’m not sure of is the new sensor and the IBS in the GX7. I’ve had the OMD and now the E-P5. And it’s everything I wished for.
—–¨It makes perfect sense to me. Sans EVF for casual, vacation shooting and attach it when it’s too sunny or when i need to do “pro” work?¨—-
Sure, but it still doesn’t make sense money-wise. Why pay $279 on top of the $999 of the E-P5 to have an EVF if you can pay those same $999 for the GX7 and get the EVF built in ?
—–¨The E-P5 is perfect for an enthusiast like me as it can be a weekend warrior and a professional just with the clip of an EVF. That’s the only reason why i sold my OMD because the EVF was so annoying for casual use because it keeps poking me.¨—-
It’s funny you would find the clip-on EVF more comfortable than the built in one because the VF-2/3&4 also protrude the same way the built-in EVFs on the OMD and GX7 do, in fact it’s worse, they protrude upwards too, far more than even the OMD hump does. With an add-on evf you kill any sort of compactness or portability the Pen series has, I should know, I’ve lived with a PLl and VF2 for many years now. The only upside of add-on EVFs was the tilt feature and the GX7 just killed that advantage.
—–¨Another thing i’m not sure of is the new sensor and the IBS in the GX7. I’ve had the OMD and now the E-P5. And it’s everything I wished for.¨—-
If you’re happy with that set up good for you, I’m just saying, it doesn’t suit everybody and it’s good that manufacturers offer alternatives for everyone, like Pany did just now.
I sure hope the new OMD is somewhat like the new Olympus Tough TG-2. Its got flash and all sorts of cool features. And its not very expensive!
High End OMD not expensive? Good Joke
At least 1500€ Body only I think
The TG-2 is only 329,- at B&H.
I must still undestand if the AA filter absence in the GX7 sensor is a good thing or not.
Use Google to find reviews of the Nikon D800 which compare the versions with and without AA filters. You get a pretty good feel for what it will mean on the GX7.
Absence of AA filter is a bad thing for Bayer sensor. Whatever the ignorant noobs are screaming over at the forums.
Pixel-peepers won – and that is a bad outcome. The people concentrate on details – but miss the whole picture. (Pun intended.)
But then, since most pictures are converted for web anyway (and that most commonly 2MP) presence/absence of the AA filter doesn’t play that much of a role anymore. Though the false colors (due to discoloration) and the false textures (due to aliasing) are often visible even at 2MP… 🙁
For the record gx7 does have an aa filter
wheres the link that confirms this?
You mean, more like, where is the link that confirms it has no AA?. It’s nowhere or anywhere the Panasonic press release or specifications at their website. Don’t think they would be trumpeting that as a feature given current trends?
Now the thing for Oly to do is to drop the price of the EP5 to $799…..I already have a VF-4, so I would buy one of those over the GX7 at that price.
If they don’t do a price drop, the EP5 is going to have all the appeal of a boat anchor now that the GX7 is coming.
My vote assumes the GX7 performs as well as claimed. But I have no interest in a camera without an EVF (or with a clunky add-on EVF), so the E-P3 holds no interest for me.
GX7, no contest, because of the EVF. I’ve just bought an LF1, though!
This is crazy. The E-P5 is here and now, the GX7 with uncertain IQ will ship sometime Q4. Besides, the VF-4 is a better EVF, and the 5-axis IBIS is proven. The GX-7 looks very nice, but Oly is in the driver’s seat on this one. Update the E-M5, lower price on the E-P5 and they can squeeze the GX-7 from top and bottom.
The EV4 is not populare. Its to much clumsy and big. In Europe we like smart and small. Not like the US.
True, Olympus can lower the price of the E-P5, but Panasonic can also drop the price of the GX-7, though very unlikely. I think no fair judgment will be able to be made until October, when the new Olympus m4/3 come out and real world comparison can be made.
I wish I could buy each and compare it my self, like test driving cars before buying one.
I would say the crazy part is that the E-P5 is here and it’s pretty expensive for what you get. The IQ of the GX7 won’t be any worse than the GH3, that much is known, the VF-4 might be better but it’s also a huge lump of plastic on top of what use to be a stream lined camera, it costs extra and sits on the center. The 5 axis is about the only real advantage the E-P5 has to offer over the GX7, but taking into account that this is a Pany camera that could’ve been released without any sort of IS, having 2x IBIS is icing on the cake.
Oly will probably steal some of the GX7 thunder with the upcoming OMD but the GX7 isn’t supposed to compete with that monster, that’s what the GH3 is for, and It’ll probably eat the Pany for breakfast but that’s something for Pany to worry, I don’t care about the GH3 vs OMD, not my targeted market demographic, I care about E-P5 vs GX7, and that battle, no matter how bad the sensor is (not worse than GH3)or how cheap the E-P5 gets, was settled in favor of the GX7 the moment Oly decided to ONCE AGAIN ignore the market and force us into buying an add-on.
You could’ve argued for a EM5 vs GX7 scenario, in that regard Oly may have an advantage, but then again, I didn’t buy an EM5 and probably never will because of the hump and centered viewfinder. The E-P5 didn’t make any sense with the EM5 on the market and now doesn’t make any sense at all with the GX7 available, I don’t se how they could squeeze the GX7 from below with the E-P5, it’s just to inconvenient. Hopefully Oly learns something and releases an E-P7 next year or so with an actual built-in EVF, until then the GX7 is king of enthusiast m4/3.
huh… what happened to the Ep6? Will it be such a bad camera that it’s not even worth mentioning? 😉
It’s not crazy. The Pen 5 *just* came out and it’s significantly more expensive. It’s not like Panasonic hasn’t done good cameras before. The sensor IQ is the big question. The IBIS? Panasonic knows those kind of systems, and their Mega OIS lenses work anyway.
Waiting 2 months is worth for someone who wants a camera with built in EVF.
I want to buy a Panny. And I wanted an EVF. And I wanted GX/GF-like body. Panny has delivered. If they haven’t screwed up somewhere royally, I’d get one.
How about waiting until the Panasonic actually ships?
Real camera vs a camera most have only seen a picture of?
Hey there Admin, could you do a poll to see how many people in the U.S. would prefer a black GX7 to a silver one. I think it might be interesting to know, for someone.
I’d be interested in seeing a poll like that. Can’t seem to understand Panasonic’s thinking on the silver only for the U.S. market.
I’m interested in a poll on that too, as I would much prefer a black body.
I want a black body too.
I vote for a poll on the black vs chrome GX7 too. I really miss the wisdom of that choice, by whomever made it.
GX7 73% vs E-P5 27% is too much for GX7, because both have stronger and weeker points, like:
– E-P5 has better stabilisation: 5-axis, GX7 has 2-axis (which is almost as Mega OIS, which is half effective as Power OIS)
– E-P5 has better sound: a single option for an Olympus external microphone, GX7 doesn’t have an external microphone input
– GX7 will be better in video than E-P5
– the GX7 photo image quality is not known yet, we only know the claim from Panasonic about a better sensor
Well, the last point is actually a plus for Panasonic.
In this waky world of internet fora not-existing-yet products are always better than already-existing-and-well-established ones.
So I guess until October the IQ of the new Pany will be the unreachable king of the hill
I highly doubt that GX-7 IQ would be better than what we are having now. In Oct? The IQ quality of a new OMD would be king!!!
Surprise= Full Frame OMD!
Every sensor is a full sensor until you use it in crop mode changing the ratio.
FF is an established reference to a 35mm-sized sensor in all photography circles. Dork.
This is my thought exactly. In addition crop mode with 43 ratio.
tz
GX7 is the obvious winner of those 2, but it is not m43 anymore. The question is, if you are a new potential large sensor camera buyer (no existing lenses), what would you choose – $1100 GX7 with 14-42 II or $700 NEX-6 with 16-50, smaller, lighter package with better IQ, OSPDAF and ability to shoot wider scenes (and longer with digital zoom, crop 50 to m43 size, and it is 50, not 42) for about 40% less?
I guess the choice is obvious for 90%+ of people.
It’s like Pana and Oly don’t even try to compete on prices of competitive cameras, although their costs are obviously lower due to smaller sensors and lenses.
Hence, marginal sales to die hard fans at first and then quick spiral to $299 for Pana GX7 and just no sales for Oly E-P5 (because they don’t reduce prices).
The GX7 ranking will be stronger still if they offer all kits in all markets.
As it is I am holding out for black with 20mm kit. I am sure a lot of people are in a similar position on it.
e-p5 vf4 17mm kit at 110.000jpy vs gx7 20mm kit at 116.000jpy. Tough choice, but enough time to decide, anyway no point in buying without actually handling the camera and checking how pana sensor performs. Is it just marketing hype or real improvements.
I’m an Olympus user through and through simply because for the most part I have appreciated what they’ve offered but I haven’t always seen eye to eye with some of their decisions like the lack of an evf in the ep5 which I believed would be a major distinguishing feature from it’s smaller and cheaper siblings and that it would solidify it’s place as m43 answer to the sony and fuji rf style cams.
The ep5 has that great jpeg engine, leading 5 axis IS, time lapse etc…but hats off to Panasonic for producing a more complete camera to the already great ep5. I voted for the gx7.
To whoever picked the E-P5.
What are you smoking?
Alternatively, are you 70+ years old?
No offence, just asking.
I am infact 86 years old. Dont insult an old german doktor.
So you have experience in using both these cameras then, to be able to make such a judgement you must have.
As for myself I see the main differences in being Panasonics built in EVF against the Olympus IBIS. On the basis the use of IBIS negates a big part of the EVF in that the extra support of ones face against the body is compensated for by IBIS, while I see Panasonics EVF as something which looks on the photographs somewhat fragile, I would be concerned with that. Down to performance, I have had the benefit of using an E-P5 and can say it is a superb camera, handles well and as one expects the Jpegs provided are to Olympuses now expected very high standard, as for the GX-7 I shall wait and see when I get a chance to try one (hopefully this weekend), let’s hope it is a major improvement on previous Panasonic efforts else it will be a disappointment, as so far they have failed to compete with what Olympus has offered.
My only disappointment in the E-P5 is that I would have preferred a built in EVF as opposed to a built in flash, an EVF would get far more use than the flash and for what use such a flash offers would be more than provided for with the Flash Control Unit as provided for with the E-M5.
And why not? We know way too little about gx7 to judge, why it should be better pick than e-p5? I actually like removable evf. And now e-p5 vf4 and 17mm kit is cheaper than gx7 and 20mm kit. e-p5 has already proven functionality and sensor performance test are available.
Or are you one of those, who is picking up cars solely based on looks alone?
GX7 two tone grey/black with matching lens looks like kitchen whitegoods.
Thankfully, I will be buying the black version with black 20mm f/1.7 II kit plus Nocticron 42.5mm f/1.2 (when available). Thanks Panasonic! (And Leica)
It’s GX7 for me: better grip, EVF, HDR, usable time lapse, better video, CA correction, NFC, panorama mode, probably bounce flash. IBIS is worse than Oly’s, but 3 stop compensation ( that all older PENs bar PL1 have ) is good enough for me. But it all depends on how good GX sensor is…
I just placed an order for the E-P5 with 17mm lens and viewfinder. I’ve been waiting for Olympus to cram an OM-D into the PEN body, and they’ve actually improved it in the process.
The E-P5 and GX7 look so similar. It’s a matter of taste whether you prefer a huge, modular viewfinder or a small, field-sequential built-in viewfinder. I always loved the modularity of the PENs.
I also choose Olympus because of the superior image rendering (JPGs are really stellar), because of the better IBIS, and because of the fantastic controls on the body. I absolutely love my E-P2, I’m very happy to upgrade finally!
To me a viewfinder is essential. I never consider to by a system camera with exchangeable lenses without a viewfinder. I have never understood why there are so many Pen and GF versions being developed during a 5 year span for the m43 population. To me the GX7 make sense!
When nikon and Olympus were preaching about the benifets of 12mp and Olympus was trying to convince us that 12mp is enough most believed it and then the panasonic 16mp sensor improved over it and the sony sensor a breakthrough in all respects.
No one can ever convince me anymore that 16mp is the limit and 24mp is too much and it will cause defraction this and impair iso capability that….
Sensor tech is not just improving but always evolving. This means that improvement isn’t linear and therefore NOT always methododical or totally convesional. Even if the sensors were to remain conventional as we know them a two year cycle of improvement is more than enough to ensure a higher mp count while at least maintaining the same dr and iso and that would be looked upon as the minimal improvement.
Sony has proven that mp increaseccan still mean room for improvement in DR ans iso capabilities.
I remember on forums when people were stating that 10mp on my e3 was enough and that was with a strong AA filter!
D800 anyone?
We are lucky that with every increase in MP, engineers seem to be more fanatic coming up with algorythms which keep the IQ up. I have the feeling that, if MP increase was not a selling point, we would now have even better IQ; if someone had the courage to come up with a low MP body(or develop a new low MP sensor) and combined this with the best pipeline processing possible,it would be up to the consumer to accept this new strategy. Clients like stock photography businesses & magazine publishers are resposible too for the high MP demand. Most evident is the fact if you look at the files of a old but decent sensor, differences are only in the high ISO photos. Sometimes the older 50-80 ISO files even surpass the current ones in smoothness.
You do raise a valid point Ulli and if companies were to keep a line of cameras focused for a while on say 16mp it’s obvious that with each successive iteration we’ll get better and better performance as the the other line of mp cams continue the march with the megapixels, albeit at a somewhat slower rate of performance increase.
This I don’t disagree with but rather the people that try to convince others that this or that is the limit and that’s it, it’ll never improve beyond this amount of mp and we all know that history has proven all these people wrong.
There’s a need for Higher mp cameras but I agree there should be a line cameras which are focused on low mp count perhaps tailored for speed, efficiency like canon and nikon does.
A sony rx100mk2 p&s now eqauls or beats a m43 12mp sensor in all respects?..wonder how that happened with a 1 inch sensor crammed with 20mp!!!
When live view appeared many that were stuck and stagnant in the fim era cried how it was a problem in search of a solution and now it’s the industry standard.
Image stabilisation?…who needs that said the pursits and again the so called purists were trying very hard to convince everyone of some ridiculous lie that video in a camera impairs the stills quality!…..Dinosaurs that won’t move forward fear, mongering without knowledge or foresight.
Cameras will increase in mp and initially too many mp in a particular generation of tech may be too much but it won’t take long before another gen of sensor tech will fix that.
In time what I’ve stated will become a non issue that’ll seem to be a redundant conversation. This applies to everything and not just mp but all other aspects that make up a camera or any device for that matter.
Nokia lumia 1020 anyone?
Serious question. I just got all my camera and equipment stolen last week when someone broke into my house. I’m extremely upset, but at the same time it has given me a fresh new start. I can now go to any system I want, not bound by any previous investments from camera to lens. The camera they stole was a Panasonic GX1, my first mirrorless, as well as my first semi-pro camera, coming from my P&S Canon S95. So my question is this, even though I am in a 43/m43 site, which system do you recommend? Should I continue to stay with m43, stick with mirrorless genre and go for Sony or Fuji, or jump to the two big companies of Nikon/Canon? My budget is $1500. My priority is picture quality, price, and lens option in that order.
If I stay with m43, then I will probably go with Olympus body bc of its JPEG engine and 5-Axis stabilization. I don’t often shoot in RAW as I really don’t do post work. I also shoot stills 95% if the time so video isn’t that important. If I go for the APS-C mirrorless, then I will probably go with the Fuji. As for the Canon/Nikon debate, I am unsure. Any advice will be grateful. Thanks in advance.
All systems are a compromise Cheetos as you may well know. Bigger sensor means bigger and heavier lens with added Sensor perfomance , smaller sensor means less weight and size with more convenience but with a some performance loss in sensor tech. The rest is a matter of feature set and what you camera you prefer.
I shoot with 4/3, m43 and fuji x.
My advise to you is ask your self what type of photography you do because fuji lends itself to a slower more deliberate style of photography because of it’s much slower af and slightly laggy evf but the image quality is absolutely stellar.
Fuji standard zooms and primes are not really large considering their quality but their telephoto zoom is In my own opinion a mismatch ergonomically when considering the concept and that fuji x cameras can’t become like an OMD with grip etc….
Olympus and Panasonic offer weather sealing, speed lighter lenses and a more complete well rounded product that has a little lesss in the sensor area.
M43 I believe is the best compromise out there on the market and regardless all systems are a compromise of soughts.
All hail the real men with hands-on experience across systems! Well put.
wrong, if you just want one camera then the APS-C would be the best compromise(NEX or Fuji or Samsung in this case).
But if you already have FF or MFDB as a main camera like many of us , then m43 would be the best back up kit.
Well, not just backups, as a main m43 shine when it comes to adapting the widest selection of lenses and being a high performance jack of all trade solutions for imaging; not only can you shoot both pictures and video you can do it at a very high quality Level. Of course x-sytem provides much better image quality for stills (I own an x100s) but m43 provides much more mature set of features and better performance than any x-system camera or nex for that mater.
Small businesses (web, local, corporate, start ups, travel/exploration, AV) and budget conscious big ones are better off with an m43 system than with any other format and I include canikons.
“wrong, if you just want one camera then the APS-C would be the best compromise”
this could not be more wrong. or right. it solemny depends, what you mean by compromise!
for me, aps-c doesn’t quite cut it, as does 35mm. or medium size format (just saying…). it is too much for my purposes.
mFT is the thing for me. i used nikon 1 for a while now and even though i hit limits here and there, i was pleased and it served me well. mFT is a leap forward in IQ and the olympus has plenty of functions to play with, it still fits my needs to be lightweight.
thats it for me. light and not so big. it’s simple.
As of this post the results are appx 4000 for GX7 and 1500 for E-P5.
The poll results would illustrate the bias of those who post here at 43rumors, as I can’t imagine the GX7 outselling the E-P5 by so much.
My question to those who can write it off: “why not own both?”
Simple answer. Because not everyone is Bill Gates.
Why can’t you imaging the GX7 outselling the EP-5 by much?
Of course it’s understandable that the GX7 outsell the EP5. For starters, for the same price the GX7 offers a built in EVF; the EP5 does not. If I want the EVF then I have to pay substantially more with the EP5, and then it’s not as sleek a package. The grip on the GX7 seems to be a bit better as well.
Both are great cameras, I would surmise, but at these price points one has to weigh the features.
Looking at the bigger picture [pun?] mFT has done nothing but excel since the introduction of the OMD. When you look at the options and choices in the entire system, every new model release is impressive and further entrenches the system as a whole.
And those that fixate on price. Remember that designs and features are built into a camera or lens, they are fixed. Price is arbitrary, it’s determined by supply and demand. The features in a camera won’t change, but prices change all the time. Except for Nikon, how often do prices ever go up from introduction? They only go down. Relax, shoot what you’ve got in hand, it’s photography, not a consumer race …
The E-P5 has two wheel dials. So that wins for me right there. I can’t believe the gx7 only has the one. That was a total let down.
The GX7 has TWO wheels.
Over here in South Africa … the Olympus E-P5 (kit with VF-4 & 17mm lens) is purchasable for about the same price as the Canon EOS 6D (body only); the Panasonic Lumix GX7 won’t be available locally. Guess the E-P5 wins, huh?
add another 250 bucks for the vf4…
E-P5 for me. I’ll carry on using my E-P3 till the price drops. The GX7 does nothing for me and I prefer the menus of the Olympus. I use the rear screen a lot so will buy the body only and use my vf3 every now and then.
GX7 on looks and layout. We’ll see how the sensor does though.
Meantime, finished my G5 Review:
http://photographic-central.blogspot.com/2013/08/panasonic-lumix-g5-full-review.html
I am currently selling my fuji x set up to try 4/3 and think i am set on the pen ep5 with its smaller primes .If your willing to import from Hong Kong The price difference is far less with only about £30-£50 between them the reported better build quality of ep5 tipping the scales