Dpreview tested the Panasonic Gm5 and writes:
Where the GM5 does come through is with a good user experience, in two ways. It’s easy to use, thanks in large part to its healthy dose of direct physical controls, and it’s easy to have on hand. If smallness is a priority, the GM5 is a very nice daily companion. You won’t get better images with a camera this size. If size is anywhere other than the top of your priority list, then I’d suggest looking elsewhere. The GM5 does a lot well, but its APS-C competitors are hard to ignore in this class, and in many cases they’re cheaper.
Store links:
GM5 at Amazon, Adorama, BHphoto. Europe at Panasonic Germany, WexUK, Panasonic Austria, Panasonic France, Panasonic Italy, Panasonic Spain, Panasonic Netherlands, Panasonic Belgium.
80 Responses
Is this an Oly site and not a Pany site or why no comments?
As DPR noted for its small size and ability to change lenses the GM5 has no equal. The DPR testor noted that one could place an GM5 and 3 lenses into your coat pockets for a week and not even notice them because of their small size and light weight. Comments also noted the GM5 additions in controls and high rez EVF do make this into a camera an enthusiast could be happy with as not just a point and shoot. I would think the 12-32mm lens, fast 20/f1.7, and 35-100mm lenses would just about cover all bases for most general photography. The primary downside noted was the lower capacity of the battery so a spare recommended. Those who complain about the cost at $899 should note that even the 1″ sensor fixed lens cameras like the RX100iii and the G7X cost $799.
The post was made only a few minutes ago, and most of the people who would be in the proper time zones are asleep.
What are the proper time zones?
The main market for cameras is Europe, then Asia/Japan, last is America.
And it was the middle of the night or pre dawn in many of those places.
Don’t waste your time on this.
The LX100 is almost as small, and a much better camera.
J
If the LX100 had a PASM dial and a touch screen, maybe. Otherwise, the LX100 has the specs I’m looking for, but the GM5 has the better control system.
Touch screen is over rated, it operates itself on your clothing.
It’s not overrated if you actually use it. It’s the fastest and most precise way to change focus points from one shot to another.
What do you want a PASM dial for?
Because the shutter dial is not going to get me a quick way to get a shutter speed like 1/50 because it isn’t one of the speeds on the dial. I do like the exposure compensation dial but I find the shutter dial to be quite a waste.
Doesn’t mean the RX100M3 isn’t expensive. Also the G7X is about US$500 where I am, so it’s substantially cheaper. The GM1 itself is now US$560, so suddenly facing this price jump is a bit hard to swallow.
So because the Sony and the Canon are overpriced, it’s okay fro the Panasonic to be overpriced.
The GM1 will run all night on one battery, as I did last night.
The GH4 has an enormous battery that will run all day.
Always carry spare batteries 🙂
From some comments I thought it was Canikon 😉
GM5: overminiaturized and worst view finder of any mirrorless. GH4 too fat and video-centric. Panasonic is going in a wrong direction.
LOL, this is why Gh4 was sold 3x times better than anticipated…”Video-centric” is the way to go for Panasonic (the way to success).
I did not buy the GH4 for video. It was designed for stills and is very, very good at that too. It just happens to shoot video quite well apparently.
Panasonic used the wrong marketing ploy, the videographers were already sold on it. Panny should have knocked the E-M1 off its perch with their pro-level GH4
The GH4 is selling so badly in Europe that we have to wait for the factory to catch up with demand, they fly off the shelves and have to be back-ordered.
Big yes, but properly weatherproof and I’ve had it working below freezing for hours. Solid too, to the extent that you could probably knock a few loose nails down with it.
Agree, but nowadays all camera manufacturers produce good photo cameras, not so true in the video front though.
Never seen GH4 flying off the shelves. Can’t remember that there was any shortage at any time.
With low anticipation, everything is better than anticipated.
Panasonic knew it will sell many Gh4 cameras but the demand for 4K was greater than anticipated by anyone. A lot of Canon video users switched because of it. If 5D mark 4 won’t have 4K video recording, many more video guys will join the m4/3 system.
Again, overestimation of the importance of 4K. Nobody specifies, what is meant with “many”, “anticipated”, “a lot”.
Speculate as much as you like, if you search on the internet I’m sure you’ll find the numbers. Gh4 was a great success, denying it makes no difference, many have abandoned Canon for it with no regret.
Panny need an E-PL7 in their range and it’s not the GX7.
It may be the new GF7 but afaia it lacks a VF option
(VF4 on the E-PL7 = updated/improved E-M10)
Many comments made on this forum regarding for them the too small size of the GM1 and GM5 maybe would be valid if Pany made no other cameras in their lineup like the LX100 and GX7
Almost certain to follow the very small GMs and GF7 will be a GX8 likely in a body very similar to the LX100 only interchangeable lens and use of all 16mp. Most reviews are commenting favorably on the higher resolution of the EVFs put in the LX100 and GM5 and they are necessarily small sized to keep the overall camera sizes down. Maybe they are worst because most small mirrorless cameras dont even have one. Yes the RX100iii one is only very slightly larger but reviews say more problematic popup and stretch needed before ready to use.
GX7 is, as Goldilocks would say, “Just right”.
I had it yesterday in my hands for the third time. And for the first time I understood how to shift from speed to aperture control in manual mode. Now that I got it I must say this is a very nice little camera, with the fatal fault of costing the double than it should.
I’ll wait for the price to come down, and then I’ll get it (if the competition doesn’t strike back in the meantime).
DPR writes “16MP Four Thirds sensor starting to look a bit dated”. What do you think about this conclusion?
It is an accurate statement. Not only compared to the competition, but the simple fact that m43 sensors gave remained the same since 2011-2012. Oly and Panny don’t update their sensors every year.
Ollie don’t update their sensors at all: they do not make sensors.
I dont think we can expect a better sensor than the current ones. Sonys FF sensor on A7II at ISO12800 doesnt do any better than E-M10 at ISO3200, it should have a two stop advantage for size alone, but the advantage is less than two stops. I would say there hasnt been a leap in technology since 2012 (for Sony anyway, and probably Panasonic as they also use the same sensor still).
Only if Sony made FF sensors for them selves with better numbers at two stops higher ISO, we could say they could also make better m43 sensors. We can hope Panasonic get out a new sensor soon, but I dont think it will be so mutch better that its worth upgrading for the new sensor alone.
So you think that we will be stuck forever on this IQ level for M43? This is a bit sad…
No, just saying Sony and/or Panasonic need to get a breakthrough i sensor technology worthy of new production before we can expect something better, and if the current ones look dated the sensor on all other cameras look dated.
The 4/3 sensor is currently providing some of the best IQ in the business, only a few of the pro-level do any better.
Only a few companies do R&D on sensors and in reality those are, Panasonic and Sony.
There are things in the pipe line but require development and won’t appear in production for a while.
The big thing happening now is display screens. No good upping the IQ on a camera if all we have to view it on is a 1080HD screen
Yes, this is the Law of Micro 4/3:
Micro 4/3 is as good as APS and as good as Full Frame, because sensor size is not what matters.
At the same time, Micro 4/3 is much better than smaller sensors such as the Nikon 1″, simply by virtue of Micro 4/3’s larger sensor size.
The smaller the sensor the better it is compared to size, if not an Iphone would not be good enogh to even print a thumbnail. And sensor size matter, but if a FF sensor is less than 2 stops better than m43, you can not expect a better m43 sensor.
Actually no stops better at all: the camera EV settings would be the same for the same shot: same light = same aperture, same shutter, same ISO.
Maximum print size is based on number of pixels. With FF we get what, 24MP and 4/3 has 16Mp: if you scale up a 4/3 sensor to FF we get 62MP
The main difference is the available range of lenses and M43 is pretty well served there, although I would really, really like something longer than 300mm please.
Actually all current m4/3 sensors from Panasonic or Olympus are better in all ways then the Canon 5D…So practically you are right ;).
“At the same time, Micro 4/3 is much better than smaller sensors such as
the Nikon 1″, simply by virtue of Micro 4/3’s larger sensor size.”
The is not true.
I’m a m34 user but I have always defended the concept of Nikon1. It has a number of great features which are missing on all larger camera systems. 60 fps, prerecording, 10x and more slow motion to name some.
The problem with the Nikon1-System is the lens lineup and the slow developement of the system. There are only zoom lenses with 3.5-5.6 or 4.5-5.6. With a smaller sensor it is much easyer to build faster lenses and it is also more important to have some.
Today the perfect target to buy into this system is the soccer mom but Nikon seems not to be able to tell them.
Why stop here? You could troll the Nikon 1 sites by posting the exact same thing except with ‘Nikon 1″‘ replaced with ‘Pentax Q’ and ‘Micro 4/3’ replaced with ‘Nikon 1″‘!
(Or maybe you already do)
It’s true because it upsets the troll.
Duh.
If you read about graphene developments, we can expect huge improvements. If they arrive sooner than organic sensors, then the organic sensor investments were a waste of time and money, unless organic = graphene, or an organic filter can be combined with a graphene sensor, or something like that.
Wake me up when M43 has clean ISO 200.
Come back when you have new eyeglasses.
Wake me up when a DSLR can shoot proper pictures at ISO25600 like I was doing with the GM1 last night,
Sounds like you need faster lenses…
Bahahahaha! Silly little boy with their silly toys.
The Panasonic 16MP M43 sensor produces good results till 800 ISO, above that the noise becomes visible. For me 1600 ISO is the max to get good IQ.
You overslept. Google ‘Panasonic G1’ and learn.
There are, indeed, two stops of difference, as physics tells us. CMOS sensor tech has not improved a lot since 2004. Just compare some raws. Marketing, on the other hand, has got a lot more aggressive.
Anyway, larger sensors offer more than two stops better noise. You need to try yourself, ignoring internet “experts”.
I don’t expect Sony to develop a new 4/3 sensor, their interest is elsewhere. Kodak have gone which leaves Panasonic who are a bigger company than Sony.
The Panny sensor produces 13EV dynamic range (in E-M1 and GH4) which is a level that produces reviews of “unbelievable dynamic range” exclamation mark in a Canikon.
Check out the native ISO range. M43 goes to ISO25600 now; cooling the sensor helps, Ollie don’t do that and LMOS is quieter than CMOS (oops, wrong ship Ollie). Other cameras have to go extended to get there and as noted the A7 FF is noisy.
Sensor size cannot produce an EV advantage, the hole in the funnel is the lens aperture which focusses the light onto the sensor; same size hole, same amount of light; popular misconception.
Not sure if I follow you, but same size hole (and same AOV) = same amout of light. This will produse a 2 stop darker image on FF, so Im comparing ISO with 2 stop difference. The bigger size is only a real advantage at higher ISO and shallower DOF.
The bigger size sensor is an advantage because it comes with bigger holes (lenses) which allows shallower DOF and better low light performance. But it also is an advantage at base ISO with higher SNR and DR.
I agree it will gather more light when you allow shallower DOF(f2.8 on FF compared to f2.8 on m43 = 2 stops more light at same SS). DR is not that simple, the A7S (12MP) will have about 1/3 EV more DR at base ISO compared to the E-M1, but the D800(36MP) has about 1 1/3 EV more DR at base ISO. At high ISO its the opposite, with the E-M1 almost matching the D800, and the A7S pulling away from both quite a bit.
http://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Compare/Side-by-side/Sony-A7S-versus-Olympus-OM-D-E-M1-versus-Nikon-D800___949_909_792
Whatever you expect is irrelevant and only contributes to the interweb of lying nerds.
It’s not impossible, but I would be really surprised to see a new sensor in this kind of models. If that was the case they should definitely state it in the conclusion, but now it’s just like trying to find a reason to be disappointed.
> What do you think about this conclusion?
The current m43 sensor lags by as much as it supposed to lag, due to the smaller sensor area. The sensor looked good because it came out ~1 years after previous APS-C tech refresh. Now APS-C got another technology refresh, and the m43 sensor lags the usual amount.
I personally am not concerned: the sensor (in my GX7) delivers the performance I “need”. Yes, I always “want” more, but that is not as important as the “need” part.
DPR bias: they do not stress as much the sensor performance when reviewing the Canon cameras.
Put it this way, it has the performance of the middle 4:3 of a 62MP full frame sensor.
Try this, imagine the centre 16MP of a 24MP full frame sensor, now double the lens length on the full frame: you got it.
Agree with the statement, it is becoming time that Panasonic takes a step forward in their sensor development. A new sensor would be very welcome in the GH4 and GX7 successor.
Why do the sensors in the various models perform different ?
http://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Compare/Side-by-side/Panasonic-Lumix-DMC-GM5-versus-Panasonic-Lumix-DMC-GH4-versus-Panasonic-Lumix-DMC-GX7___979_943_901
Given the big sensor improvement in higher ISO useage, less noise, and better DR in the GM1 and GM5 as say compared to that in my GF1 with 12mp sensor I would be happy with the current one in meeting my needs.
However I see the very good results being realized by the latest smaller Sony 1″ sensor used in several compacts and Pany FZ1000 and wish Pany would develop a similar BSI one for 43. It has been said that BSI using both sides of sensor works best and economical to do in smaller sensors but now Fuji is also producing BSI in their APS-C sensors. Pany probably concentrating on the next leap in sensors reported to be the :organic sensor?
I meant to say future development of the global shutter.
In the tech industry these days, ANYTHING that’s more than a year old is “starting to look a bit dated.” The question is, are there better alternatives? Samsung’s new sensor offers pretty spectacular resolution and low noise, but color looks funky, and how many native lenses are available for it? APS-C in general? Slightly better resolution, and about 1 stop lower noise, but a significant size & weight penalty. 16MP with good glass, shooting technique and post-processing yields a good 20″x30″ print. How many shooters need more than that? I would welcome improvements in noise rather than MP count (I shoot low-light events professionally), but really, M43 offers the same IQ I used to get from my $8000 Canon 1Ds Mark II. That’s all I need.
Was always priced too high; they could have sold loads of these.
Wait a month! 🙂
Will probably need to wait longer than that. The GM1’s price held up a lot better than the GX7. My guess is this small format is a popular sell so Panasonic doesn’t need to drop the price as dramatically. There certainly isn’t much competition size wise besides Panasonic’s own line up so they control the market right now.
Even though Panasonic has yet to clearance out the GM1s, they can be had for pretty cheap on eBay. The market price has dropped, it is just that Panasonic is a little behind.
The GM5 is my favorite M43 camera. I reviewed it here: http://backgroundblur.com/#!/articles/54959d8c567a218954ccf541
I use it in freezing cold conditions all the time, so I don’t know what the DP reviewer is getting at with his remark about cold conditions. It has been working great for me.
The point about competing APS-C sensors is moot: I don’t see any other package with this sensor quality in this tiny size. IQ matches E-M1, GX-7, Canon Rebel, etc… On top of that you get a vast selection of tiny lenses. Without such lenses, there’s no point to such a camera:
– 12-32 collapsible pancake zoom
– 35-100 collapsible tele zoom
– 20/1.7 pancake
– 14/2.5 pancake
– 15/1.7
– 45/1.8
– 12/2
You published a review? Have you noticed the lack of manual controls? Do you know much about photography?
Disrespectful much? Who expects plenty of manual controls on a miniature camera?
Any idiot paying over 300 for any camera. But some idiots are worse than others.
It has all the manual controls possible.
You’ve been a busy boy this week. Panic at Canon?
Great write-up. Thank you for the size comparisons. I got into m4/3 for a similar reason (back-country outdoor adventures where every ounce counts). GM5 is a fantastic evolution my GF1 and I will definitely get one when the price settles down a bit.
I also own a A7r, I think these two systems complement each other very well. Plus they have the added benefit of being able to share legacy lenses.
I would by it, if..it had same 4k Sensor of LX-100 and bring me a fine sharp full-hd.
It costs 399,- that is the worth with Starterlense.
but. and the Aps-c vs.4/3th discuss is funny..ooh my car can carry 57 kilos more
(both are ugly things nobody realy wants..)
Pircetag: the canoneos1200d has all to make good fotos and makes its full-hd.
but 249,90,- and taht is the truth…
Panasonic runns in the same Trap others are ( Slomo-canon-product-speed/ Sony with its
Jokes and ignores APS-c = nnnoooot get too close too 6900,-$ FS-7 Cinecam..) ..and if
Samsung brings a 300,- good Cam..the funny makret will fall faster.
and jet… 1000000000000000 Smartphones / 1 Camera..sold..who will win?
And the argue of SMALL HANDS/ POKET/SMALLROOM something else– nice
but no reason to by. not realy.
PRICE/VALUE/CODEC.. this is it. and we speake normal customers( and we know all)
the show of last 5 years_ dear Producers: DONT FUUL US! okidoki.
the camera is nice.. but- 299,- is better.-
I can’t understand a word of this. Could you type a little slower?
Ever hear of spellcheck?
There was some comment in the review to the effect that the Pany m4/3 16MP sensor is outdated and the 1″ just as good (20 MP because BSI) and APS-C sensors better.?
If that was the case couldn’t Pany use the Samsung BSI 28MP sensor in a m4/3 camera using only 20MP much in the same way they are doing with the LX100 using a 4/3 sensor reduced from 16MP to 12 MP?
Because reducing the 28 MP APS-C sensor to FT size would only yield 15.8 MP.
I’ve looked carefully at DPReview’s test images, and the 1″ sensors do not look as good to me at ISO 1600+.
I cannot praise the GM5 enough! I won’t delve into the many reasons why the GM5 is prefect for my needs, but I will say this:
Never before has a camera been so consistently present, but never in the way.