There were rumor saying that Sony would launch a FF NEX (named A7 and A7r) with a sort of OMD design. The sketch on top is supposed to be 100% accurate of the camera that will be announced by Sony next week. If you compare the images you will see that there are quite many differences. Overall the OMD design looks more “harmonic” while the Sony looks like a sort of Lego assembled camera.
A couple of things to know about the Olympus-Sony OMD vs A7:
1) The Sony camera doesn’t come with the 5axis Olympus IBIS (this one is supposed to come with the next A-mount cameras)
2) The OMD (E-M1) and the A7/A7r share exactly the same Epson EVF.
3) OMD and A7/A7r do have about the same body size
And the A7 costs twice as much as the OMD.
185 Responses
We’ll see the actual design soon.
The angle of the sketch exagerates the hump a bit.
Since it wont have good in bidy ibis I wonder what is in the hump.
Hopefully sony made the evf exxxtra big like in the good ol` days.
I like exaggerated humps..I don’t know about anyone else. 🙂
I prefer my women like my cameras, humps just large enough to where they fit nicely in the palm of my hand. Anything larger is a waste and adds unnecessary bulk.
But then you have no time to shoot… or..
Who says you can’t do both at the same time?
Seems Sony is going full retro. This one is the pre-brassed version.
You def. see the similarities. Same size as Oly..whoa.
lol, same size ? Yea, surely this sketch and photo are exactly to scale. 😛
…oh..wait…put a large aperture lens on it!
Same size as OMD, that’s what’s written (seems confirmed) on Sonyalpharumors. Another rumor says it’s 15% bigger than NEX7.
There are two way different size OMD’s though.
They are on two completely different platforms and cost tiers.
The size and availability of AF lenses is completely lopsided.
..but the capture on the Sony blow the M1 away.
Neither one is better or worse…There is a huge difference here.
It will be interesting to see if a GREAT, small AF native lens line-up can evolve for the Sony…then they will REALLY have something.
You oly fans need to think before posting the E-M1/E-M5 doesn’t even match the best last gen APS Sony 16mp sensor let alone this gen and compered to FF it lags far behind.Just as many mFT users seeking the “best ” performing lens head for the manual focus options.For those happy to use manual focus there are no shortage of wonderful choices for the FF nex.
The first company to come out with a full frame mirrorless camera with IBIS for my Canon FD lenses will get my money. It looks like this will be Sony. I could care less about any native lenses, except for maybe a decently fast 50mm prime for when I don’t want to fiddle with manual focus.
btw: No IBIS in SONY
Learn to hold the camera, make yourself a small shoulder bracket, carry a pocket tripod with you: you won’t miss IBIS. I surely don’t.
You seriously think using some kind of third party tripod or bracket is better than IBIS?
This is about as dumb as it gets…
A pocket tripod surely beats IBIS. A proper bracket may be in the same region. Not to mention proper light. Why are you so rude by the way?
I know. Not this round. But the A9 will have it.
I needed something that is very good in low light and hand held so I chose the OM-D E-M5. I am glad there are plenty of different camera systems for everyone.
I had a NEX with Zeiss 24mm and now I shoot with E-M5 with 25mm because I find the OM-D to be sharper and give me more DOF when I need f1.4 for low light shots.
http://masters.galleries.dpreview.com.s3.amazonaws.com/2719149.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=14Y3MT0G2J4Y72K3ZXR2&Expires=1381516446&Signature=FK7l1JFPvabEEx%2bO%2fMDTpAMmYQ0%3d
http://masters.galleries.dpreview.com.s3.amazonaws.com/2719150.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=14Y3MT0G2J4Y72K3ZXR2&Expires=1381516436&Signature=ZduPVgTfiIY5PAMTOjBYFrBsl5Y%3d
25 on μ43 is 50mm equivalent of FF
24 on APS-C equals 36mm on FF
Yes, I know one if 35mm and the other is 50mm. I was talking about IQ and to me m43 > aps-c IQ wise.
I could have bought a 32mm Zeiss to compare but I didn’t feel like I would need it after using the OM-D. m43 is fine for me and I don’t miss the thinner DOF. I will get it back with the FF-Sony.
I can also live with the crappy videos and no peak focusing until the FF-NEX is released but I will not buy one unless the AF is fast like the OM-D.
Can you read, fool? you are disagreeing with noone.
+100
I gave a balanced report…both cameras have strengths and weaknesses….he is arguing with himself…nice call!
As they say, friend: The proof is in the pudding. No doubt a full frame camera can take fantastic pictures that put M43 to shame. Let’s see some of yours. 🙂
I’m sure this is important for pixelpeepers and measurbators.
I don’t care.
Ever seen a good photo where people said: If they just would have shot this with an APS-C sensor instead of an µFT sensor?
There will be no “great, SMALL, full frame lenses” for the Sony. They can’t even make great small lenses for the APS-C Nex.
The I love MFT..but he grip on the M1 looks “Lego-Like”….no? 🙂
+1
Grip on the A7 looks like Hasselblad Stellar / Lunar. 😀
…yeah…good call! at least it looks that way in the sketch. wait…then the body will be $3000! 🙂
Thats exactly how people described the grip on the EM1.
Short Memories.
….didn’t I just say that????????????
Yes I do like my E-M5 a lot, but the design of E-M1 is ugly for my taste. It’s reaaly another DSLR-like shape camera.
This is all so very interesting, really, but what about the new Panasonic mini m4/3 camera, that’s what I really want to know about.
Um…your page was a few posts back….on this page..nobody cares about the at toy camera. 🙂
I don’t get why sony can’t make the mount flush with the body. Maybe there is technical reason but… its so ugly, especially when considering using the FF with old manual lenses via adapter, which makes the lens opticaly bigger.
I rally wish sony could learn from Olympus, or Fuji in the looks department.
The lens must be a certain distance from the sensor. Their two options are make the camera thicker and have a flush mount, or thinner camera and have the mount stick out a bit. Looks like they chose the latter.
There is (was, in reality now) the option to do what Oly did and make it look like an integrated part of the body not just sticking out like an extra bit. Makes the oly look slim but hides the lens mount from looking like a stickon tube.
Makes the body a bit slimmer, and shaves a few pennies from the cost of materials.
Can we stop referring to the E-M5 as the OM-D. The E-M1 is also a part of the OM-D line and looks nearly as cobbled together as that drawing appears to be. The E-M5 was an aesthetic jewel, but the E-M1 definitely separated itself from that design in many aesthetically displeasing ways. Now, they are all tools, so how much does that really matter? Don’t know, by if you are going to bring it up …
+100
There is
OMD E-M5
OMD E-M1
Good call. ….and with all of the above and below. The Sony Sensor is in a COMPLETELY different league. That does not make the whole camera, (or camera system) by a long shot…but there really is no comparison in the capture. If anyone wants to argue that it is just foolish. There are MANY attributes in the MFT system that outshine so much of the Sony mess…but the sensor just ain’t one of them.
Has that sensor already been tested?
I am assuming that that sensor will be as good or better than the sensor of the RX1….
I’m just worried I might soon have to come up with some new excuses for owning or keeping what I have.
“The E-M5 was an aesthetic jewel”
Just to remind you that the OM-D E-M5 aesthetics were derided by many when the camera was first announced but some of those people purchased the camera anyway, and now they are accustomed to the looks.
Many Olympus M4/3 fans wanted Olympus to make a rangefinder-style body with integrated EVF much as the Panasonic GX7 has achieved. Even though the GX7 is released some Olympus fans still want Olympus to do a similar thing.
With the release of the OM-D E-M1 it seems it could serve as a test for how aesthetically unappealing a camera could be made and have people still purchase it.
The aesthetics/functionality balance of the OM-D E-M1 have swung to function over appearances. Customers wanting to look ‘inconspicuous and stylish’ (the original PEN customers) will feel left out, but customers who don’t mind ‘conspicuous and utilitarian’ appearances (those who are comparing the system to a traditional SLR) may still purchase it.
Ultimately there is still no high-end/pro Olympus PEN in terms of features despite the fact that Panasonic, Sony, Fuji etc have all made headway in that product area. With Olympus it seems to be a matter of waiting for one of their incremental releases to be an attractive proposition, rather than catering to a market requirement with every product release.
Why does this forum care so much about what other camera makers are doing?
You forgot to mention the massive difference in sensor size.
Issues?
As well as the massive difference in lens size and weight.
Keep banging that drum!!
This camera is going to be more than easy to carry around. Just like the rest of the increasingly small body large sensor cameras.
Oly peeps protesting too much again.
Lighten up.
yeah…I can just see it now with that incredible fast and small (sarcasm) Alpha lens line up……zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
For landscape use or macro or any other area where AF is not a necessity there is a huge range of easy adapted lenses from several makers old and new. Pretty much what the voightlander fans do with mFT.
I am a keen mFT user but as my main loves are architecture and landscape.I must confess I am sorely tempted with the 36mp version with a couple of choice wide angle primes,how many kidneys do you really need 🙂
That is perfect if that is all of your needs..and the computer power to crunch the files!!!!! MFT…bye bye in your case.
I agree, it’s horses for courses. This camera isn’t an OMD, an OMD isn’t a 5Dm3. No tool can have every benefit but a full frame sensor,in a relatively small body and legacy glass is a HUGE draw.
I just had to comment because the Oly users seem to be getting increasingly desperate in their efforts at superior naval gazing when it comes to the size and weight issue. I think they’re sweating on their ‘advantage’.
I read a few forums and this one just turns me off with it’s insular attitude.
Part of the point of the A7r seems to be tapping into a rich seem of beautiful legacy glass and a return to full frame manual photography with exceptional, state of the art digital tech. There are some fantastic compact legacy manual lenses to take advantage of. I can’t see anyone except this Olympus crew having a problem carrying the A7r with a beautiful manual prime.
Then again, they’ll be to insecure to join in the fun!
I don’t get it why you keep on coming here to wave your flag. You must be very insecure. Seems to me you 35mmFF have a huge inferiority complex, need confirmation to your size ;-), you are so puzzled that you can’t convert us m43 to 35mmFF it is hilarious.
You can’t even imagine that there are even pro’s that would rather use m43 than 35mmFF.
“OMD vs A7 design (not really close).”
NOR IS THE SIZE OF THE SENSOR HAHAHA
Please present your SMALL, FAST, LARGE-APERTURE, PRIME, AF lens system. NOW! LOL!
Thats just the thing if you want to compare like for like same AOV same DOF same total light. This is not as difficult a challenge as you imagine. Voigtlander Nokton 17.5mm f/0.95 weighs 540g costs $1150 and gives the same results as a 35mm F1.9 lens on FF The excellent Sigma 35mm F1.4 weighs in at 650 g not bad for 4oz different oh its also $260 cheaper.
Even if you want to conveniently ignore the equivalence advantage the Panasonic 25mm F1.4 at 200g compared to the Nikon 50mm F1.4g at 250g and the 25mm is $200 more.Before we here cries of quality the Nikon easily outdoes the 25mm on a 36mp camera.
http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Lenses/Compare-Camera-Lenses/Compare-lenses/%28lens1%29/199/%28lens2%29/450/%28brand1%29/Nikkor/%28camera1%29/792/%28brand2%29/Panasonic/%28camera2%29/793
The Panasonic has lower resolution, lower transmission,much higher distortion, much higher Chr. aberration the only area that it does better in is vignetting which is easy to correct. Just how can a more expensive lens for a much smaller sensor manage to have 4x more distortion and double the CA
That is alright for those of us who do not mind using manual focus.Not so much for faster moving subjects AF is pretty useful for these type of situations.
Yes..lets talk AF lenses to AF lenses…and also lets throw DxO mark out the window as they are Nikon prejudiced and their system of measurement is LESS than verifiable in any realistic way….and hey…lets throw Nikon out the window as well, cause no AF Nikon lenses are mounting on the Sony.
I am talking AVAILABLE AF lenses for this new Sony Camera. Real world, modern photography. Not niche photography. ..and not the future…I am talking next week …what is available when the camera is released.
I absolutely agree that the Sony has a lot of advantages. I am a fan of MFT, but not a mindless fanboy (I have a complete -10 lens- FF kit too…I use BOTH formats)….but for now ..I am keeping both kits. Maybe in 3-4 years sony can get it AF, fast aperture, fast focusing act together and THEN I abandon both kits and take up the Sony “system”….
I need and want AF…no adapted manual lenses….that shuts up the Sony Roar…really fast for modern-day practical use….but this Sony FF mirrorless ILC is an exciting “start”
I will be keeping BOTH of my kits, selling my E-M5 and picking up an M1 to go with my E-P5 for the time being…and will carefully watch the developments with Mirrorless FF cameras!
But what about people like myself who shoot at F5.6 all the time for landscapes?
There is a large size and weight advantage then.
I can use the good (but not great) Panny 14-45 F3.5 -F5.6 lens which is tiny compared to any FF zoom, regardless of aperture.
Plus there’s the decent (but again not great) Oly 9-18mm which is even smaller.
For hiking that two lens kit covers most options and weighs about 400 grams.
And your stupid f/1.9 lens still lets in two stops less light than the m43 lens you’re comparing it to.
I really don’t understand why the FF fanboys feel the need to spend so much time trolling other forums. Don’t you have something better to do with your life?
I guess because your mommy still does your laundry, and makes your bed, and fixes your meals, you have too much time on your hands.
I don’t buy that F1 on m43 is F2 on FF… DOF is a very big second to shutter speen in 90% of photography… so I want F1.4 shutterspeed, which means you need an F1.4 lens no matter the sensor size!
Oh and try that with a 600mm equiv? mine fits in my jacket pocket… a FF 600mm? might fit in my car… lol
I really don’t understand how all you FF weenies have so much time to troll forums for other types of cameras. If you really OWNED a FF camera I’d expect you to be so busy shooting, and trying to process those gigantic files, you’d be too busy to waste your time on sites for little old toys like we use.
But I guess because your Mommy still cooks your meals, makes your bed, buys your clothes, and drives you to school you have lots of spare time. Maybe someday you can even afford to buy the full frame camera of your dreams, and trade up from your iPhone.
“share exactly the same Epson EVF”
I’m hoping for sony’s sake that your talking about the new EM-1 EVF, and not about the EM-5
Sounds like Hate, to me…
Some people go for looks over performance I guess…
Keira Knightly has both!
i wonder if sony will forget to put 25fp video in there new models
…or auto-focus that is actually USEFUL. 🙂
feeble wallet…you can’t be here… just use your cell phone.
maybe the same body size but sony’s lenses are way bigger than Oly’s because its FF. There might be some handling and balance issues.
Sure guy…
Sony is making moves and even though I don’t like the brand, I will respect what they’re doing.
Besides, after everyone has ibis in their cameras, what will Olympus have?
NOTHING.
I don’t quite understand??? You say that when every camera maker has IBIS in their cameras (whenever that will be), Olympus will have nothing? But with nothing in their cameras, their cameras must weigh nothing?? This sounds incredible!! Are you sure that you know what you are talking about? Statements like this can very easily give the impression that you are clueless??
What makes you think Oly will be sitting on their hands & doing nothing? They will likely come up with some other innovative idea before the others do.
“2) The OMD and the A7/A7r share exactly the same Epson EVF.”
I assume you mean the E-M1 ! 🙂
“3) OMD and A7/A7r do have about the same body size”
Now this can go either way, E-M5 or E-M1 ? (i’m guessing the latter)
+1
Look at that tiny M43 sensor…..LOL.
What size is the sensor in your P&S
And still beats many APSC, now thats impressive ! 😀
Only in youre dreams.
It doesn’t beat any modern APS sensor even the last gen Sony 16mp sensor in the K5 /D7000/Sony NEX or Fuji etc hasn’t yet been matched by the best mFT. So the only APS it “beats” is the by now ancient Canon APS sensor. It is even further behind the D7100/D5200 .Not much to boast about is it?
http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Cameras/Compare-Camera-Sensors/Compare-cameras-side-by-side/%28appareil1%29/865|0/%28brand%29/Nikon/%28appareil2%29/793|0/%28brand2%29/Olympus/%28appareil3%29/676|0/%28brand3%29/Pentax
There is one rather important area where the Canon sensor beats everybody especially sales Canon sell more APS bodies than the complete mirrrorless bandwagon put together , that includes mFT/NEX/FUJI/ CANON & NIKON.Canon users are not hard to please lol
No not most modern ones, but that shouldn’t be surprising. And that doesn’t make the performance of m4/3 bad or even close to it, it’s great even. So when i say many, i mean every sensor since the beginning of time except FF of course and indeed the very recent editions (yeah, not that many in the grand total is it). Anyway, i’m saying when the performance is good all that matters is the many advantages of the system for many much stronger reasons than just pixel-peeping. Unless of course pixel-peeping is what you live for. 🙂 And even then, it only holds true for a few years when m4/3 catches up again.
And GM sells more cars than BMW and Mercedes put together. What would you prefer?
Mazda
Can’t comprehend how people who use these shitty small 35mm sensor systems can call themselves photographers?
Re. the Sony’s design look, v.a.v. the OM-D:
You can’t really judge a brand new design against one that our eyes have become entirely accustomed to.
I have long experience with classic film SLRs. When I first saw the E-M5 I thought it was quite awkward looking — the shape of the “prism” hump, with the accessory/hotshoe tacked on top. But now after many viewings it looks quite normal and classic. We’ll get used to the new Sonys, too.
But I have to say: I can’t imagine what Olympus’ grip designers were thinking! Until the new OM-1, they’ve all looked like mere after-thought/excuses, to say See, we have grips too! The one on my E-P5 is a lame, sorry excuse for a grip.
Not a fan of the Oly, but I’m liking the sketch better. Hope it has a nice size grip and good placement on the shutter button.
In other words, kudos to Sony for valuing function over esthetics.
So why doesn’t Sony value large-aperture, fast-focusing, AF, prime lenses…when I mention this to a Sony fan…all I hear is AIR?!?!
Once Sony gets a camera with 5 axis I’m moving to Sony. Their video is not as good as Panasonic but it’s heaps better than Olympus. If only Olympus could have put a modicum of effort into improving their video capabilities. Imagine 5 axis and that new Sigma f1.8 zoom!
OK, must we say all?
Sony is impt. because it has a considerable share of Oly.
Because Oly will make lenses for it.
Because Oly sensor is Sony.
Because Oly said it could do FF 35.
So what Sony does now, Oly could do in the future.
Oly’s problem is that Sony and Panasonic have huge expertise in electronics and minaturisation because of their background and because of their resources. Fuji, Nikon and Olympus are more optics focussed and Canon straddles both camps.
As technology progresses the optical side of photography becomes less important and the electronics and software side becomes more important.
Sensor technolgy, software correction of lenses, ever more complex firmware with more and more options like HDR, stitching and video modes are becoming increasingly important and the winners will be the ones that can make best use of this.
Nikon has managed to succeed so far because it has a fair amount of sensor expertise plus the sales volume to be able to commission bespoke sensors.
As technology moves forward I can see Panasonic and Sony winning market share and if Samsung gets its act together it will join them.
I’ll continue to buy Oly cameras of course.
100 percent agree.
Great point. No real value in pitting Sony vs Oly…they are aligned.
Sony doing well is good for Oly; Oly doing well is good for Sony. They both have great tech to offer the other.
Doubt Oly will go FF ever – there is just so much invested with the 43 and m43…. they make so many lenses (are they the 4th biggest lens maker? can, sig, nik, oly?) They also have a fully comprehencive range of lenses – and since mostly they are good to excelent lenses they are now better focused (haha) on getting the best body… going FF would require at least another 5 lenses as well as the body, in 1 hit!
Where does the “Same Epson EVF” rumor come from?
Dunno…but it makes sense. The Sony has to have a good VF.
Stands to reason sony would use something of theirs or something new better than what theyy currently make. A HD Oled EVF. Who knows…
I love it…gloves off….it is a slug fest in here!!!!!!!
This may be off the beaten track there is a lot of talk about compatibility of 4/3 lens with my newly awaited EM1 kit ( just cant wait GRRRRR )but has any body heard if they are working on a m43 tele converter like the ec-1.4 ect that would make a lot of sense can anybody enlighten me please
Hmmm… Don’t you think that the E-Mount which is to small even for APS-C NEX would be a huge mess on FF? I hardly think they’d manage to make really good lenses for this FF platform.
Do you think Pana+Oly have designed a such big diameter M43 mount for fun?!!
They already have a FF E-mount in the vg-900 So you do not need to imagine how it works, it already does
And were are these high quality lenses which would confirm that making really good lenses for such a relatively small mount diameter is possible and not complicated?
Because MFT already has them.
Sony is releasing 5 of them when they release the FF NEX cameras. Duh.
IIRC, 4 of those 5 lenses will only work with the camera set to “DX” mode, making this wonderful FF camera an overpriced APS-C body.
Ehhhhh no…
Zeiss FE 24-70mm f/4 OSS
Zeiss FE 70-200mm f/4 OSS
Zeiss FE 35mm f/2.8
Zeiss FE 55mm f/1.8
G FE 28-75mm f/3.5-5.6 OSS
…are all full frame glass if rumors are true, and the 35mm is as light and short as the Olympus 17mm f/1.8 AND weather sealed
Disappointing selection.
I’m betting they use a more generous dose of digital correction than m43… Not that I’m against that at all – just wonder how far you can correct digitaly with satisfactory results…
Always thought m43 should not mess around and totaly fully correct distortion – if you can digitaly correct why stop short by 0.5° why not just make it perficly flat every lens every zoom? they correct it to look like a real lens – they dont correct it to make it correct… probably because people would start complaining that the images are too correct and that they liked the gentle lines the anolouge lens gave… sigh :O
No 5 axis stabilization? This is the cause that I’ll not buy it…..and it’s a pity. I’ll wait for the first FF mirrorless body with stabilization…..of corse. I hope will be an Olympus or Panasonic…..
Why, you only shoot objects that are not moving? In that case, ever heard of a tripod/monopod?
More than the roughly two stop advantage in real life you gain with the IBIS is gained via the FF sensor, and this is in all situations. On top of that there’s the other advantages of the FF sensor.
If waiting for just 12 mounths for IBIS to be included in cam means I don’t have to lug a tripod around for the REST OF MY LIFE it is a small price to pay… embrace technology it does make things better!
Very interesting times ahead:
mFT fans (of which I am one) often argue that mFT is the future because as sensor technology advances our sensor is all you really NEED, so larger formats will become extinct.
FF fans often argue that FF sensor prices are getting so cheap that smaller formats will become extinct.
We are about to meet in the middle. mFT used to have the size AND cost benefit to compete with FF. As mFT prices increase, and FF prices decrease, we are approaching a time where we may ONLY have a size advantage. We aren’t there yet, but close. If Sony figures out how to make some compelling pancake lenses in the next couple years we could have a problem on our hands…….!
“As mFT prices increase, and FF prices decrease”
+100
+ 100
M43 prices take the pi55
This is so true…
I have a OM-D E5, and i gonna have a Pseudo OM-D with a FullFrame sensor 😉
I have some Sony lenses, but no IBIS is very sad.
Can m4/3 do more than 16 Mpx, without getting WORST resolution?
That was the problem with NEX 7 so going FF 35 might be the shortcut to incrrease resolution.
It’s the way I interpret Mr. Terada’s understatement.
I am OK with 16 Mpx and high DR, but never say never – if you are available TO FOOT THE BILL 🙂
The Nex 7 has excellent low ISO resolution outperforming the best mFT. A lot of its problems were down to the relatively poor selection of native lenses at the time of its release.
Download some decent RAW samples to confirm this .
As a point of interest contrary to mFT mythologists beliefs it does better than the best mFT in every category
http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Cameras/Compare-Camera-Sensors/Compare-cameras-side-by-side/%28appareil1%29/793|0/%28brand%29/Olympus/%28appareil2%29/736|0/%28brand2%29/Sony
The 24mp Nikon designed Toshiba built sensor in the D7100 is even better
who needs high iso when you hve ibis !!!:-)
you get it?…
many subjects move making IS useless get it ?
+1
Many subjects move, and at times you want to ‘pan’ following such movement, where IS can nicely eliminate shake in directions other then the one in which you are panning.
Flowing water moves, and can be smoothed out if so desired by using a longer shutter speed, made easier by IS.
With long lenses, its not unusual to achieve a shutter speed that will freeze motion sufficiently, but still has the risk on camera shake.
There you go, 3 situations where IS actually helps while photographing moving subjects.
What you intended to say is that IS cannot freeze motion, which is clearly true, but concluding from that that IS is useless when dealing with motion clearly shows you understand very little of what IS really does, or of photography for that matter.
Why do you need IBIS if pushing up ISO is just a piece of cake for FF sensors? Get it?
Can you really tell the difference between 16MP and higher resolution without pixel peeping?
These cameras will be breakthrough items. Kudos to Sony.
The interesting thing will be the price, as reported on sonyalpharumors.com: A7 with 28-70mm f/3-5-5.6 kit lens will cost under 2000 Dollar/Euro. A7r body only will cost around 2300-2400 Dollar/Euro.
The A7 will have a 24MP sensor; the A7r a 36MP sensor.
This is where Oly may have a problem with the OM1 pricing: for not much more you will be able to get an A7, with FF goodness. That’s a huge step up in IQ.
I’ll say it again: the OM1 is a fantastic camera, but the pricing may backfire.
In a system the price problem is never about the single camera, but about the system itself. m4/3, because of the wide choice of lenses . and high resolution, is certainly the most efficient among mirrorless.
Therefore it is wise to let go Sony ahead go explore what it can do with a large format. Do you only need one? So far it is only 8% of the market. You have to walk the talk, not only talk the walk.
Agree with you. E-m1 is nice but it’s overpriced. I can enjoy very similar image quality from GX7.
GX7 is way overpriced as I can get the same image quality from an E-PM2.
D4 is clearly overpriced as I can get the same IQ from a D600
5Dmk3 is clearly overpriced as I can get the same IQ from a 6D
Maybe, just maybe there are other relevant differences between such cameras?
Dear Admin,
The major difference between OMD and the upcoming A7 is sensor size – something you may want to forget. The sensor is about three times larger. It means from a A7 you can print an A0 size print and get the same quality as an OMD A3 print.
For someone like me who makes exhibitions, this is essential.
For those who mainly visit rumor sites or (if they make any photos) rarely print more than A3, the OMD is the a great choice.
I have become bored with biased fanboy rumor sites and find them stupid.
Admin – Since the A7 does not have the 5-axis IS, is it possible that the viewfinder is actually detachable? Looks like it might be. And, if so, what does this do to the price of the camera body?
“The OMD (E-M1) and the A7/A7r share exactly the same Epson EVF.”
Why would sony use Epson EVF panel, don’t they have their own?
Probably because Epson holds the patent, and Sony was unable to design a better one.
Coming from a person who is using the both sony and mft systems, Sony already had em1 equilavent fv two years ago and is expected to bump up the resolution up to 3 megapixels next…
If you think all that matters is megapixel numbers, you are using the wrong system.
See, despite Sony already having an EVF that happens to have the same MP count as that Epson one, they still seem to be picking the Epson one? Why? maybe they realized something that doesn’t directly show from mp count?
>>>”And the A7 costs twice as much as the OMD.”
Which is exactly a very good thing. 3 x sensor size for much better DR, noise and DOF control for only half the price? Bargain.
The Sony A7 (the 24Mpix version with the presumably faster OSPDAF) is rumoured to cost around $1600, whereas the E-M1 costs $1400… In that context the Sony seems to be a bargain.
cancelled my em1 order , looking to go with a7 , hopefully full frame will improve lowlight street performance , oly omd pretty good providing its not moving
Please no more sony posts in the 43 section.
Sony has *the* worst userbase that is almost 100% trolls and aggressive trash. Don’t lure them here to shit all over the place!
NikonShooter
12 hours ago | Reply
Please no more sony posts in the 43 section.
That seems fair enough though Sony now make the most important part of mFT cameras oh well
Sony has *the* worst userbase that is almost 100% trolls and aggressive trash. Don’t lure them here to shit all over the place!
The worst user base is bar non the Olympus fantards every forum that allows them in gets destroyed just like this one. By the way still waiting on a Nikon D800 photo from you LOL
The most important part of any camera system is the optics. Sony totally and completely sucks at optics, so no, they aren’t producing the most important part of m4/3. They do produce SOME of the sensors used in m4/3, just like they produce some of the sensors used for aps-c and 135 format cameras.
Beyond that you have done a good job at demonstrating the problem with Sony fanboys: ignorance and instantly blaming others for that ignorance. Good job.
If that sketch is close to accurate, it looks like the viewfinder eyepiece sticks out even further than the ones on the Panasonic cameras.
Is admin looking for fanboy confrontation with his unusual biased post? Are you scared by Sony? Learn from SonyAlphaRumors and be positive about other brands too.
i thought it was the same person who ran both here and sonyalpharumours
Well, it is not…
are you sure interesting that they are both called Andrea and both had wifes pregnant at the same time
Hehe, in that case we are definitely talking about a person with split personality. You can tell that the admins on these two sites are very different. I am pretty sure though not one guy can keep up with both sites when its rumour high season and in Andreas case have a regular job in the side.
That hideous sketch has to go just like it disappeared on the other rumor blogs!
The PRICE of the LENSES is the problem. Because unless the lenses have twice the resolution of another mirrorless, you won’t notice much difference. So, v. expensive lenses, and therfore, Zeiss.
Will you notice the difference with a m4/3? Perhaps, but at twice the price. You won’t have IBIS, focus will be slower, battery life perhaps shorter.
So you take all this for the myth of FF 135, mirrorless. The SYSTEM I predict WILL NOT be a BARGAIN. It won’t be as REACTIVE, or both.
Moreover, I will laugh while you clowns try to adapt your legacy 21mm (400-800 €) to the A7, and find that they have bad edges.
‘Vai avanti cretino’ 🙂
It doesn’t make it more true when you write virtually the same post on three different sites. Are you afraid of Sony, or just jealous as you deep inside feel you have a lot of money invested in m43?
Clearly you haven’t read about the new microlens array designed for these new A7 sensors specifically made to optimize edge performance for rangefinder glass.
LOL. Of course I read about Sony Microlenses, but do you think they will work with any legacy lenses made in the last fifty years?
Microlenses were invented by LEICA for their very OWN LENSES, they are not going to work with ANY lenses. Each lens introduces its own problems CA, distortion, etc, so O&P have data banks about their own lenses. Sony will have them too, but about native lenses, not about legacy, so the result will prolly be mediocre, like it was on the Fujis.
I contend that native A lenses will be v. expensive, if you want more resolution than m4/3 best. And it’s not even a given. What matters for me is per pixel resolution, total resolution I might use in special cases, like Middle Format in film, but it certainly not going to ruin the high resolution of my m4/3 camera.
So I will laugh when I see the queue of the clueless in front of the bank. Sony must have sent you the fiddler of Hamelin – LOL!
There is no doubt that Sony’s native lens line up will be rather thin on the ground. What attracts me and i imagine many others is the fact that you can simply adapt any FF lenss you already use. Manual focus is my preferred choice with landscape,architecture,macro and portraits.This is made even easier with the focus peaking feature on Sony.
Have a look at any of the sample RAW files from the D800E to see how much more it resolves than mFT .The lens talk is nonsense the higher MP count gets better results from every lens you mount on it there are no shortage of lenses that can deliver excellent results on a 36mp body.
Though some FF users jumped ship for mFT the majority simply bought it as a lighter alternative to their main system. A nex 7r with a a trio of my favorite primes will replace my uses of mFT almost completely
Wow – amalric – so much ignorance. Sorry.
I have put Hexanon glass from the 70’s on a NEX-7 24Mpix, and the results are stunning(!!) …even compared to modern glass. Yes, glass with Zeiss T* coating and other high grade do have advantages in some scenarios, but a modern high resolution sensor can be a phenomenal match with legacy glass.
It’s the wave of technologies.
During latest decade, we have compact camera, then APS-C DSLR, then FF DSLR, and then m4/3, APS-C mirrorless format.
And the era of FF mirrorless begins soon. It’s very clear that we are moving towards the FF mirrorless format.
Comparing to m4/3, of course it’s still new and not mature yet, but FF mirrorless will keep evolving, just as m4/3 did in latest few years.
I’m glad that I’m satisfied with my E-M5 and don’t order E-M1 due to its pricey body cost. But from now on we have to invest in m4/3 more carefully. The future is more interesting than ever!
Actualy getting resolution/accuracy from the lenses on FF is easy compaired to compacts – 1/1000mm error on a compact lens and the image is all over the shop… with a FF 1/1000 of a mm is such a small % that its a small minor distortion in a small part of the image… so FF lenses dont need to be as accuratly ground… but do cost more in glass and optical glass is as expencive as a bankers bonus…
it’s a lot easier to design FF lens that will resolve 24 mpx at its optimum aperture than 43 lens that will resolve 16 mpx.
I have to confess that I came from D700 to E-M5 due to weight. A7/7r makes me hesitate to invest more for m4/3 glass.
I wont jump to E-m1 because I dont want ugly DSLR shape anymore.
And if you follow SAR often, they said clearly that this sketch is just a prototype. Thus the real one can be different. However if it is the same as the sketch, I will pass surely. hahaha
For IBIS, even though it’s nice to have, but IBIS is not necessary for FF sensors, just as it never exists in nikon&canon FF bodies.
A7/A7r may be a game change in mirrorless camera indeed. AF won’t be as fast as OMD, but it’s enough for daily use.
Plus, according to SAR, the price of A7 (24mp) will be very close to E-M1!
Of course, it also depends on lens lineup. Let’s wait and see.
For IQ, it will blow away every mirrorless camera in the market since the sensor is the enhanced version of D800/D600/D610 and RX1.
But the question is the collection of native autofocus lens.
If they offer the same proper lens options as Nikon or Canon offers f2.8, f1.8, f1.4 lenses, this will be a big impact to the mirrorless market segment.
Time will tell.
Is that a fold-out LCD? Tilting EVF? (not likely because of the hotshoe)
No tilting EVF
As in:
No tilting EVF!
or:
No – Tilting EVF.
???
It’s just regular EVF, unlike GX7 EVF
It looks more like E-M1 rather than E-M5. Put an E-M1 photo beside the scetch and you’ll see.
Exactly. The conparision should be with the EM1…and of course the EM1 VF hump is large as well.
The amazing thing is that the A7 model will be not that much more than an EM1 in price. The EM1 should be priced more at around $1000.
As an aside, in my city were have one serious camera shop stocking the top brands. They recently added the Sony lineup, and even have Sony reps periodically visit the store to speak with the public, just like sometimes Canon or Nikon does. I get the feeling that Sony is really going to go after the high end camera market.
I’m amazed that they can fit a full frame sensor in the size of an E-M5, but then again, the lack of five axis stabilization may allow for some elbow room.
“And the A7 costs twice as much as the OMD.”
thats alright, since the sensor is double the size…
i smell the fear of a system dying
Time to brush your teeth.
Is it weird that the thing I’m looking forward to most about the upcoming Sony FF is shooting with my OM manual focus primes?
This new systems success, like most others, depends a lot on lenses.
Taking your eyes off the shape and style for a minute, look at how close the flange is to the sensor. Then look at the m4/3 mount in comparison. The lenses will have to be large just to accommodate that flange distance, achieving focus with that positioning is virtually impossible from what I know about optics.
That all assumes the sketch is accurate of course.
So what you are saying is that Sony will be introducing a $2400 camera body that doesn’t focus. now I have heard it all! LMAOROTF.
Well well.. That’s not what I meant. What I meant was you can’t get a bit of glass that close to the sensor and focus it well, so the nearest individual lens can’t actually be that close, meaning that lenses are going to have to be large just to give the closest lens the ability to focus its image onto the sensor correctly.
I think people are looking at this the wrong way the Sonny FF Nex doesn’t have to be as small as mFT as it will have far superior image quality.As for lenses yes AF options will be lacking though there is an adapter for using Alpha lenses with AF.On the other hand for those of us not afraid of a little manual focus which is made easy by focus peaking, then there are a world of choices.
I wouldn’t dream of mounting a 70-200 F2.8 or a 300mm F2.8 on this type of camera ,what I would mount are prime lenses.As a landscape and macro fan I can see myself buying this as a lightweight alternative to my D800. The Nex 7r in a bag with three or four cherry picked primes will make for an excellent set up. Remember there are no shortage of Nex and mFT users already adapting other lenses for use on their chosen system.
There is no need to wonder will XYorZ work on 36mp I already have a wide selection of lenses that do exactly that some of which are both relatively light and relatively cheap.
“There is no need to wonder will XYorZ work on 36mp I already have a wide selection of lenses that do exactly that some of which are both relatively light and relatively cheap.”
Yes, so why are you here exactly for, illiterate troll? To learn the use of commas?
Who is a silly little baldy man:
“Yes, so why are you here exactly for, ”
If you wish to play the grammar police game,you should take a lot more care with your sentence construction.
I have to laugh…I don’t begrudge that this is the right camera for you… And that your points are valid. But this is 2013. State of the art FF cameras have large-aperture AUTO-focus primes and zooms. That half the point of being involved in a good system.
I just feel that everyone is making excuses for this camera because we all know that Sony historically just does not deliver GREAT AUTO-FOCUS lenses. They certainly will not have ANY next week.
Perhaps over time that will change or a third -party manufacturer can step in and deliver so inspiring AUTO-FOCUS glass.
probably, you know very little about optics, because FF camera will do with 50/1.9 lens where FT would need 25/0.95, and as you might have noticed MFT’s 25/0.95 is amuch BIGGER than FF 50/1.8
Both are ugly… it looks A-7 will be slightly larger than OM-D
They are not only trolls, but also LIARS, or at least ignoramuses.
Indeed they ignore the sad end that Voigtlander 12mm and 15mm did on Fuji mirrorrless, as for colour shift, loss of resolution etc…
I can only laugh thinking on what will happen on a FF 35mm…
Let them go to the bank with stars in their eyes to their camera Pearl Harbour. Sony’s marketing is already congratulating themselves – none too difficult 🙂
amalric tell me please how it feels to know that your beloved system is about to die that sony kills panasonic that is the simple truth the argue of the lenses is stupid cuz even with the ones if yhe release will have way better quality remember the size of the sensor? m43 is dead 🙂 im really happy
I’ll give you this:
Sony have the will and musle to make it:
Do video right,
Be top quality image,
Have good lenses,
Be supprizingly small for FF system,
Be generaly a pritty badass camera & system.
If they deliver (I feel this first one will miss too much – but MKII will hit the spot better) then I think pros will probably gravitate to that kind of setup rather than accept 43s as good enough quality and totaly downsize.
There could possibly have been a move to m43 if nothing mirrorless came forwards from the FF camp!
Probably m43 will stay enthusiast, journalist, and travel – maybe wildlife…
But I think it will be properly encamped, dominating in thoes areas.
excuse my runon sentences by the way i have a brain disorder and am not very educated either besides that i am delight in being a jerk and also pull it alot!!!
Jim has an interesting stance. Sony indeed could do a big splash if it got its technologies right. But that’s a big if, because problems are compounded by the size of sensor.
m4/3 OTH might be hitting limits to growth with 16 Mpx, unless there is some new technology.
Consider however that I have never been in the camp of those who found the main advantage of m4/3 in small size only, as much as good resolution across the frame. We’ll see how Sony solves that, and fast focus – reactiveness.
I am under no illusion that Sony that Sony won’t ask twice as much for a FF SYSTEM than m4/3. So I am not sure if there is an advantage in price/performance, which is key.
Just remember that 4/3 and m4/3 developed in the presence of FF 35mm, so in a way we are weathered. Nobody forbid people to go FF. Not that many ever showed much improvement in their photography, so I rest my case in peace. A cheaper Leica? Please help yourself.
A7 is much more close to the E-M1. Same weatherseal (minus Freezeproof), same based AF technology, same EVF, no IBIS (but 2 stops ISO perfs, so maybe a draw) for How much? A7 + 24-70mm F/4.0 may be 200$ less expensive than E-M1 + 12-40mm F/2.8 ! But I’d prefer the OM-D design. Almost an interesting fight from Sony!!!
even if AF tech is the same, smaller sensored camera would be faster at AF thanks to smaller lens eleements and less distance for them to move. Except lowlight.
Exactly. The same goes for IBIS. And worse for lens performance at the edges. I bet that only native lenses will be corrected, and MF lenses will be left to themselves.
In other words everything will be in the execution, and for a marginal advantage. But go tell juveniles that are more familiar with guns than with cameras, and think in terms of caliber to better kill their classmates 🙂