The Samsung Galaxy NX with Android OS.
The dutch website Draadbreuk.nl (google translation here) had a chat with Olympus manager Terada. He confirmed that Olympus has no plan to create a camera like the Samsung Galaxy NX that runs completely runs on Android. He said that “That is not our focus. Perhaps in the future, but now? No, certainly not.”
Do you agree with Mr Terada?
109 Responses
It doesn’t matter Andriod or non Andriod .
It is the matter of Image Quality , to acheive further better ISO & DR are objectives people want the most from current level .
Oly & Pana can enjoy & proud of their latest products ( EM1 & GX7 ) till the 2 full frame mirrorless interchangeable by Sony hit the market , game will change dramatically .
I dont need FF as it will bring big file size and I print rarely…so m43 16mpx is enough for me
I hope in more competitive prices of m43 gear after sony hit the market …cca 20-30% of ep5/gx7
…and drop of lens prices too but that will mostlikely never happen
I think many who visit here will have seen the Sony 35mm specs and glass and said no thanks. Like I did.
Many more who already own FF glass will look at it very differently, the focus peaking makes manual focus a doddle. Though it will not be a small as mFT obviously lol.I also shoot with Nikon FF and have a bagful of excellent primes, some of which are both reasonably sized and excellent performers.
A Sony 7r with a selection of my favorite primes would make for a superb travel, hillwalking etc kit. The talk puts the 7R in the sub 400g weight range I would pack my 28mm F1.8g , 50mm f1.4g and 85mm F1.8G { stretches out to 127mm in crop mode} a kit that would weigh in at roughly 1.4kg .When mounted on a 36mp body the results from these lenses are excellent
http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Lenses/Compare-Camera-Lenses/Compare-lenses/%28lens1%29/952/%28brand%29/Nikkor/%28camera1%29/792/%28lens2%29/199/%28brand2%29/Nikkor/%28camera2%29/792/%28lens3%29/823/%28brand3%29/Nikkor/%28camera3%29/792
I expect the 7R 36mp to be even better than the Nikon D800E which is already the best performing sensor currently available
http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Cameras/Compare-Camera-Sensors/Compare-cameras-side-by-side/%28appareil1%29/793|0/%28brand%29/Olympus/%28appareil2%29/814|0/%28brand2%29/Nikon
I think if it comes to pass it could well be a major success for Sony. It is making me rethink my E-M1 order as though it is an excellent camera it simply doesn’t move the image quality forward in any significant way.
Did I miss something here?
1. How many native, large aperture primes will the new FF Sony R have?
2. How fast & accurate will the AF be?
3. How will you mount all of your Nikon lenses to this new Sony and have full-functioning lenses with fast AF?
4. How much will the body and a quality Lens cost?
The RX1 is very cool except for:
A)Fixed lens
B)Price
C) Slow AF
A sensor does not a system make.
The M1 hooks up to an incredible, ever-expanding mirrorless system……
For NOW (and the near future) I am keeping my FF kit and my MFT kit…The Sony does show some promise for the future perhaps…but on introduction it will be a not-so-versatile, expensive and possibly slow offering, no? Something I can’t justify buying into just yet because of all the limitations.
Oh…just to keep it on topic….I hope the Sony has no Android software…or any other real camera for that matter.
“Did I miss something here?”
Apparently so ,
“Many more who already own FF glass will look at it very differently, the focus peaking makes manual focus a doddle.”
1. “How many native, large aperture primes will the new FF Sony R have?”
That is irrelevant to me as I was talking about adapted FF lens shooting manually so there will be hundreds
2. “How fast & accurate will the AF be?”
That is irrelevant to me as I was talking about adapted FF lens shooting manually you did read the part about focus peaking making manual focus easy
3. “How will you mount all of your Nikon lenses to this new Sony and have full-functioning lenses with fast AF?”
That is irrelevant to me as I was talking about adapted FF lens shooting manually
4. “How much will the body and a quality Lens cost?”
The 7R body is rumoured to be around $2200 Canadian dollars around $2100 USA or £1350 { just £50 more than the E-M1}. As for lenses I already have them even if I didn’t the three lenses mentioned are all cheaper than the mFT equivalents . And when mounted on a 36mp body considerably outperform even the best mFT has to offer.
“!The RX1 is very cool except for”
No one mentioned the RX1
The E-M1 looks to be an excellent camera and it ups the game everywhere except where it counts most image quality the differences if there are any are at best tiny
You didn’t mention specifically that you were adapting your lenses to a yet unknown camera. I misunderstood.
The entire conversation is irrelevant to me as I could never work in that fashion. I have to have a fast system and I have to have AF.
Sounds like it could be the right camera for you…but we won’t know that till we see what it ACTUALLY is and what the cost is.
So..why exactly did you write you piece…just to make fun of MFT? LOL. It is a great, small, fast system and can be the right one depending on you end needs.
It does not replace FF as I stated..I maintain two systems.
Enjoy your day.
OH….I mentioned the RX1…I am allowed to do that you know…it fits into the context of the discussion as this it the camera the the new Sony ILC is morphing from. 🙂
What exactly is “a doodle”???
A doodle is a scribbled drawing. For example, a bored student may doodle in his notebook. A doodle can also mean a foolish person. There’s more…
I think he said doddle not doodle 🙂 A doddle means something easily accomplished as in “reading is a doddle ” or maybe not 🙂
“That is irrelevant to me”
That is good for you, as it means you’ll have more choices.
But it is more then a little bit silly to think that native, AF capable, high-quality bright lenses are irrelevant for the very large majority of potential buyers of such a camera, and hence your argument is totally relevant to you and the few odd cases like you, but totally and utterly irrelevant on the larger scale of things, it does not matter at all for the market as a whole.
Hence, until such times Sony has a serious line of native, AF capable, high-quality bright lenses for NEX FF, it is not a serious thread to m4/3 or any other system for that matter. That was the original argument, and you didn’t say anything that changes that, rather the opposite actually.
You are seriously ahead of yourself with this new Sony. I said no thanks because I was looking at one with very high interest. But to be frank it is not ready yet. If the inclusions as mooted on sony rumors were actually in and lens available then it may be a different story.
Its just not there. Yet. For me. As for potential, yes, the new Sonys have a real potential and it will happen. But. Not for a while yet.
I also have absolutely no interest in dxo or whoever they are. Nobody takes shots in a controlled environment (maybe some, some, portrait studios do). The measure of a camera is what can be done with it in a real world environment. One where the subject moves or the sun is to harsh or it rains, or people keep getting in the way.
I don’t hang charts on a wall I hang photos.
Considering what they want for the RX1 already, I can’t imagine these new Sony FFs will be anywhere near my price range. I’ll stay with M4/3, thanks.
Size Size Size… m43 can go so much smaller if needs be!
IQ is all relative… m43 are now better than yester years FF… if best is the must then speak to NASA otherwize most cameras are plenty good enough for most people…
I reckon FF will become a very small niche specilest market in 5yrs or so… Even go so far as to say 99% of pros will be using somthing smaller than FF within 10yrs!
There’s a LOT more to a camera than just image quality. How easy, or difficult, a camera is to use can make a huge difference in how many quality images you create.
As a general rule, I’m not convinced Android is really the best option for a camera system. But in the case of Olympus, I think it might be a good idea, because maybe then someone else would create a user interface that is actually reasonably easy to use, and has some logical consistency. Olympus clearly doesn’t know how to do that.
lol – I like the oly setup – but It took me 5yrs 🙂
I know what you mean – be good if you got Skins for camera OSs…
Overly complicated, at least for a first-time user? Absolutely.
But realize one thing: you generally only spend a short time being a ‘new user’, and a very long time being an ‘experienced user’, hence the later is much much more important then the first one.
Also, what kind of consistency are you talking about?
Moving from C2000Z through the E-420, E-620, E-3, E-P1, E-M5, I found it rather easy to find things on each of those cameras because they do things in very similar and pretty consistent ways.
No, the big issue is wrapping your head around the Olympus system initially, and it is absolutely unhelpful for that, but once you do, it is actually a pretty good system, much better and much more flexible then that of most other brands.
Why don’t you FF trolls find your own site to pat each other on the back in? This is a blog post about using Android as a camera OS. It has nothing to do with FF vs. m43 in any way shape or form.
Why don’t you try to stick to the subject at hand, instead of turning everything into an opportunity to troll?
Because they have small penis’ they must debate the size of their sensors instead
Mr Terada must be an Apple man.
Thank god!
+1
+1 but hope for the video firmare update
Thank you Olympus for being reasonable. Android is a great way how to put 95% of useless software in camera and hope that 5% will work. Stick with wifi/NFC and use our phones to edit/share pictures with world.
One of the big problems for Android Cameras is, there will be no motivation to make quality software. Why? Because how much of them will be sold? Definately much less than any of phones, so why bother to add special and complicated processes which will use only one kind of hardware with minimal userbase? Without exact processes for each camera you’ll never get top results. That’s why every manufacturer has own RAW, own processors etc. so with Android in camera, you’ll just get “standard ok” results.
As a software developer, I *desperately* want Olympus to use Android. Why? Because their current menu system is crap, and they’ve purposely created a false limitation on presets.
Android would let me:
1) Create my own presets for all settings that are available with a single tap, rather than scrolling though 3 different menus to find the setting.
2) Access any setting I choose instantly, without using menus at all.
3) Define functionality that’s trivial on a phone camera and impossible on my PEN, such as snapping a photo every 5 seconds for 3 minutes, or bracketing beyond the camera’s inexplicable built-in limitations.
4) Design my own menu system that makes sense, instead of having to remember which wrench icon to navigate into in order to find various settings.
Those against an Android-based camera OS are either ignorant of what a camera OS actually does, or just use their camera on Auto all the time.
If you’ve ever switched your Canon firmware from the crappy stock firmware to CHDK, you know the power of a flexible OS. (And if you own a Canon P&S and have never upgraded to CHDK, you’ve lived in a prison of your own making.)
You’ve got to be kidding. Android is a huge and bug-prone, and unsuited as a “real-time” OS for a hardware-intensive environment. Would you use Android as the OS in medical instrumentation, say for use in critical care? Or for running an airplane like a 747? I don’t think so. No way it would be acceptable at all.
Cameras, the better ones anyway, are not so different in terms of necessary embedded OS functionality. Android, or any general-purpose OS is way too inefficient, unreliable and insecure for the purpose.
If the camera-maker deems it worthwhile to permit customization of menus, surely it can be done. But leaving the camera OS wide-open will be a disastrous mistake.
Thats not to say propiotory systems dont have software crashes – I think the UKs LYNK helecopters had to have loads of software redone because they were not safe… once products get complex then maybe a dedicated OS company is better than anyone else to make an OS – maybe currently there are buggs – but look how far windows 95 has come on!
Sure, *all* software has bugs, it’s just a difference of how many and how “serious” they are. And certainly, the more complex the program is, the more “buggy” it’s likely to be. A camera OS, hand-coded and optimized for that particular hardware is going to be far smaller, simpler, and cleaner than Android or any similar OS could ever hope to be.
Back in the ’90’s I was acquainted with a computer engineer working in telecom. I’d remarked about the buginess of the common OS of the time compared to the rock-solid reliability of the telephone network. He said the difference was all in the software. Telecom had chosen to focus on core stability, whereas popular OS prioritized bells and whistles over primary funtionality and security. And of course, he was right.
What is Android about if not about bells and whistles?
Using Android, and being beholden to Google, is not a way to fix the menu system.
If they wanted to fix the menu system, they would fix the menu system. If they used Android, they’d likely have the same menu system and amazing System Control Panel.
Sure, having something different would allow people to tinker. It also means that the number of support issues would rise. I don’t even remember the last time Olympus support actually did something for me, though.
Android would also likely cause firmware bloat and that people would be calling for Android updates to fix a number of problems.
If you are as you claim to be “A software developer”, you must surely be fully aware of the shortcomings of Android. Yes an Android handset works pretty well in it’s virgin state, until people like yourself start creating new apps which promise to be the best thing since sliced bread. All well and good until something goes wrong, then what do we do (return the phone to manufacturer hoping they will fix it), why because people like you are not interested in the poor guy who has paid his dollars for that app thinking it would do what was promised and not wrecking his handset. Why do I say this, because I have lost two Android handsets,would I use another one yes I would and I do, will I download another app, no chance my phone is too valuable to let some clown like yourself wreck it.
So back to Olympus, all praise to them for not falling for the Android lure, leave it well alone, if Samsung want to do it, that’s their business but seeing as Samsung have android experience in the mobile market, they have not exactly got it right in a camera.
So no thank you leave the cameras alone and as regard the Olympus menu, it does not cause me many issues, allocate the buttons to suit your needs and there is little need to use the menus that often.
Three cheers to Terada and Olympus.
I’ve downloaded about 50 apps not 1 has caused a crash or a bricking issue on the phone… some are crap but thats just so so as all the ones I get are free!
What kind of deprived filth are you into… getting apps that crash so much 🙂
As someone with a quarter century experience in OS development, I say you have absolutely no bloody idea what you are asking for:
– Apps just being killed due to using more resources then the system likes or has available
– Decimate battery life due to insane overhead
– Impossibility to guarantee responsiveness because of the need for garbage collection
Just 3 of the long list of things that make Android (and IOS alike) absolutely horrible choices for this.
See, not very intuitive menus is one thing (tho after a bit I actually find their menus pretty easy to follow, but maybe I’m just a lot smarter then you are), but at least they work, and at least the camera responds pretty much instantly when I ask it to do something ‘important’, like taking a well timed picture, as opposed to either having run out of battery, or needing to garbage collect first so it has enough memory to actually pull the picture from the sensor.
No, I don’t have an iPhone or Android based phone, or Windows phone for that matter, I want something that actually works as a phone. I do have a bunch of tablets, which are totally fine for non-serious stuff, but a total disaster when trying to rely on them for something.
+1 !!!!!!!!!!!
The last thing I need is “apps” or “widgets” for my camera.
We don’t need Androids.
Camera with Humans is good enough.
Better if they’re Photographers.
Thank god!
And indeed Gekopaca, you hit the nail on the head. I couldn’t have said it any better!!!
Yeh spoken by a man who I’m doubtless does all his own chemical developing 🙂
God bless Mr. Terada!
Trusting anyone form Olympus is a bit naive, it will be the market that dictates the final direction all camera companies take.Though I hope this is true
😀
Absolutely agree. The problem is not with Android specifically, but with any complex operating system. There’s a direct relationship between software complexity and the number of bugs – of course there are other factors, but still, if you increase the amount of code then you increase the potential for problems.
I expect to be able to take a photograph when I pick up my camera – I don’t expect to have the thing crash on me, and in fact this never happens.
I expect to be able to make a phone call when I pick up my phone – I don’t expect to have the thing crash on me, but unfortunately it sometimes does.
ps. Declaring an interest: I have worked for decades in the field of embedded systems, and I’ve witnessed at first hand the many problems which have arisen from the increasing use of inappropriate operating systems in embedded systems. With general purpose operating systems it’s cheap and easy to add features, and it’s cheap and easy to find programmers to implement those features. But quality control does take a dive.
So what’s most important? Cheapness, features, reliability. Pick any two.
err easy…
Cheap + Features… if it crashes once every week I can live with that… but if it can not do somthing your a job down!
But will you make use of those gadgets (err, sorry features).
I don’t use any of them on the cameras I use. I usually set aperture, sometimes shutter speed and EC, very rarely ISO, usually centre spot S-AF. Shoot raw so anything else can be done later
So, I would rather have reliable, simple, tough, weatherproof and all the basics like good viewfinder and good grip to be there.
so you never exposure bracketing… I use most (95%) of the features in the PEN and more than a few times! – if it could do alot more I would use a lot more – if you just want ISO, Apature and shutterspeed with AF then you were already served in the late 80’s…
An Android based camera software would be nice, if two things were ascertained:
1. Its user interface should have no disadvantages whatsoever in usability, stability or performance.
2. There’d have to be an extensive application programming interface that would enable third parties to develop camera apps.
And since not even Samsung, even though they’ve started using Android on some cameras, is offering item 2…
No, Olympus should rather continue to refine their existing camera software and, well, focus on more and better lenses.
1. That isn’t happening. Touch screen every time, all the time. One one hand it could help you develop interfaces you could never have on a system with fixed buttons, on the other hand, it’s a touch screen.
2. That can be hacked, but I fail to see how it would appeal to professionals. Nobody is going to edit their raw files on their camera. The camera does best when it serves on purpose, and it serves it well: taking pictures.
I agree with you. Now Olympus, give me an answer to the GX7 with your delicious 5-axis IS 😀
No thanks, not for me. Thanks Mr Terada.
Actually android means:
1)A multitude of 3rd party apps.
2)DIY hacking to improve the firmware.
3)Much more versatility in useage over time than you can dream of now…
2 years ago nobody thinks Wifi or NFC is needed in a camera… so don’t sell yourself short for the future.
+1
Ok so there are others with vision 🙂
points 1 and 2 are probably major reasons Olympus won’t go w Android any time soon- Same reason their FW update method is the way it is- They don’t want to lose control.
same philisophy as MAC which will also go the way of the dodo (android is eating more and more iphone sales – and who still buys MAC desktops? laptops, sure currently plenty) if they don’t open up! – ok MAC is still doing ok because they cater for rich idiots… which there are plenty of! – but in the end closing doors is only going to alow others to overwhelm you. What are Oly affraid of?
Who still buys desktops with ANY operating system? Desktops, Mac or PC, are a dying breed, too. Only those who have really heavy duty processing needs buy desktops any more.
MAC? Huh? Media Access Control address?
If you mean Macintosh computers… Mac is not an acronym.
I think laptops have overtaken desktop systems at this point. Most laptops are powerful enough to replace desktop systems, except for tasks that require very high levels of processing power. Touch interfaces and hardware are still in their relative infancy, so for some tasks… publishing, high-end graphics, sound and video editing, CAD, 3D and the like, computers will continue to dominate for a while. Who knows how long.
I’m waiting for the day your phone is a FULL windows OS with 4 usb 3 ports on one side and 2 micro DP ports on the other… full desktop power and OS/setup on the go just plug in monitor mouse and keyboard…
P.S. soRrY aBoUT tHe ShIfT kEY tHiNg
Do you specialise in bullshit or does it come naturally
Macs are for people who found 2 buttons too confusing… and they cost double the price of PCs… so what part is bull?
I guess you own a mac then?
I know this isn’t really on-topic, and I apologize, but ‘jim’ is spouting so much nonsense, I couldn’t let it go (I know, “Someone is WRONG on the internet!).
Ugh – 1996 called, and they want their IT Department attitude back. Have you used a Mac in the last decade? These days, Windows is the OS that is out of step – everything else runs a variation of UNIX (MacOS, Linux, iOS, Android, the entire f-in’ Internet). I did Windows IT for over a decade, bought my first Mac in 2006 because I was tired of doing exactly the same thing at home as I did at work all day, and never looked back.
FYI – Android is NOT taking away iOS market share (in the US, it’s actually the opposite – iOS will probably pass 50% smartphone market share in the US this year), it’s eating everyone else’s market share (Blackberry, Windows Phone, Symbian, etc). “Open” leads to commoditization, which is great for the low end, but leads to unstable hardware manufacturers that can’t do decent customer support or invest in real innovations because their margins are so thin. In the PC market, only Microsoft and Intel ended up making money – commoditization killed margins on everything else. Apple avoided this by maintaining added value in their OS, and now makes the VAST majority of the profit in the PC industry, just as they make the VAST majority of the profit in phone industry (Samsung is the only other profitable phone manufacturer – everybody else loses money).
You need to stop reading analysts who cut their teeth in the Windows PC era – it’s over, and Microsoft is going to have to struggle mightily to remain relevant in the consumer space in the next decade. They went from a 90% market share of internet-connected devices in 2008 (basically PCs) to just over 30% in 2013. Android and iOS tablets and phones are eating them alive.
To yank this back on-topic, the only way I’d want Android anywhere near my camera is if it comes with hardware buttons/dials for important shooting controls. Kirk Tuck likes the Galaxy NX camera for studio use, but with everything controlled via the touchscreen, it’s a disaster for to-the-eye adjustments. WiFi connections to tablets/phones seems a better middle ground.
Name one Android app that isn’t just another post processing program or a buggy, slow way of partially controlling the camera. Oh, and the three Android-based cameras currently on the market are terrible, and I know of no useful program that’s been done for them.
Cameras have real time operating systems in them (generally DOS derivatives, which is one reason why we still have 8.3 file names). Moving them to a larger, more open operating system doesn’t necessarily achieve anything on its own, and introduces the whole problem of reinventing the wheel, which usually means version 1.0 isn’t exactly as stable as what it’s replacing. Android also means more component costs.
I’m not against a user programmable camera (see my articles on this going back more than five years now). I am against trying to fit a round hole into a square peg. An OS designed primarily for touchscreen access might work for cameras with viewfinders, but for a high-end camera, not so much. The priority has to be controls you can use while your eye is at the viewfinder and index finger is on the shutter release.
Personally, I’m very happy that Olympus is concentrated on just making a good camera better. That’s what I want first and foremost.
+1
DOS is no more realtime than Android… Android just does a lot more at once… you can shut down bits and you would be left with something more realtime…
I also belive a huge 100% software co. can probably end up beating a small devision of a huge co. that makes ships or medical scanners. Google have some seriously good programming tallent – waaaay more than oly pana nikon canon put together!
So eventualy Android will probably be better and more comprehencive than propiotory OSs. We might enter a day where the easyiet way to contol a washing machine or microwave is not to have timer circuits but a small chip with android or open OS controlling the show… faster for makers to program than making spacific electrical circuits or OSs. – the future will probably be somthing like Android… maybe a Linux equivelent??
Either way it has to be open to sucseed – thats why PCs ruled, because they became the most open system in the world… not the best!
DOS and other platforms that are directly tied to the hardware CAN provide much much better real-time performance then Android can, for the simple reason that there is a lot less code sitting between receiving a trigger and the bit of code that has to respond to it. Additionally, DOS won’t just tell you to bugger off when asking for memory because it has to garbage collect first (please wait with taking your action pictures, I’m busy), it either has the memory or it doesn’t, and you can be 100% sure about that beforehand.
With all respect Jim, your post shows total ignorance of OS technology and WHY cameras use real-time platforms, and how those platforms work. No, there is absolutely no way to strip Android down and achieve the same thing without turning it into something quite unlike Android. The first thing that HAS to go is the VM (both because of its resource management model and the very significant amount of overhead that significantly cuts battery life. Removing the VM removes the main feature that makes Android so attractive, and makes you mostly end up with yet another Linux distribution. When going that way, you are much better off building a specialized distribution on top of a Linux kernel instead of trying to strip down Android to become something radically different from what it is now.
Like I said – maybe not Android spacificly, but humanity will start to standadize on a all in 1 chip and OS to do most of the things we need automating… it just seems obvious rather than reinventing the wheel each time you make a gadget…
N.B. it does not show ignorance, rather optimisum – there is a big diffrence… there are many ways to skin a cat.
Making an argument while ignoring things that you can easily know by a little investigation is willful ignorance by definition Jim.
Its not like the issues with the specific choice (Android) you were advocating haven’t been pointed out again and again and again and again and again etc in previous discussions about this subject.
I think the 8.3 limit is because Microsoft has patented the method used to enable long filenames on FAT filesystems and not due to any DOSishness in the operating system (especially considering DOS’ ties to the x86 architecture, which I really hope our cameras aren’t using). On the other hand, I would have expected it to be licensed along with the exFAT filesystem that is required to use SDXC media…
The 8.3 filename is a limitation of FAT-based file systems, and nothing to do with DOS, as such. There are no DOS-based real-time operating systems (I’m using the term ‘DOS’ here as you have, ie Microsoft DOS and compatibles).
ps. Strictly speaking Linux is no more real-time than DOS is, though it is geared towards more efficient and consistent timing than is DOS. If you want proper real-time than you need something more specialist, eg uCOS-II.
I did read a discussion somewhere about what Olympus might be using but I can’t recall… google “olympus hack” and eventually you might find more info.
Assuming Android won’t be used just for network communication and there’s a decent API for accessing the parameters of the sensor and lens, I can think of at least three apps I would find useful (and are simple enough I could probably program them myself):
1. Intervalometer for astrophotography. Automate the processing of taking a given number of light and dark frames by keeping the shutter closed for every other exposure. (Bonus points for telescope control.)
2. Focus stacking. Given a desired depth of field and aperture, take the necessary number of exposures and automatically adjust the focus each time.
3. EXIF manipulation. Mostly when using manual lenses, for setting the focal length (ideally from a preset so other lens information can be added) and aperture without having to take notes. (Being able to connect to a Bluetooth GPS for geotagging would be handy, too.)
You don’t need Android in the camera to do this. You need well defined APIs for camera functions, and secure wireless access. Then you can program everything in the app, whether it is iOS, Android, or WW/Win. The camera should (in my view) use an efficient real time OS, as Thom Hogan says (and RT OSes can certainly be related to DOS and its 8.3 file system). The user must have full control of who can access the camera via wi-fi.
Think I dissagree with everyone 😀
Android is a good idea – don’t have a sim card (less virus/hack chance) – just wifi/bluetooth…
I have a HTC wild fire (old I know – 128MB ram)… does not crash… maybe twice in 2 yrs… Mind you I sometimes have to turn off and on again my EP1 because of lens communication error… same same – either way the camera is not bullet proof – as long as its good enough!
Android would allow so much more than the limmeted job olympus (and a lot of people hear) see a camera fit for… You could have all sorts of usefull image cature options – I’m not thinking Android to post process images (although it could do all that), more to change the ability of the camera to aquire images. e.g.
Capture pic/seq/HDR/video on sound (select volume and even frequency)
Capture pic/seq/HDR/video on movement (could be movement of a certain color or a % of total image change per sec so you can filter out smaller movements and trigger on main events)
Capture pic/seq/HDR/video when brightness reaches a low/high point…
Combine all these triggers with a counter or delay… you could setup trigger events in a kind of schematic way linking output of one event to input of another, or requiring conditions form multiple triggers to specialize the capture, building quickly complex and flexible automated capture.
Let alone all the intresting timelapse possibilties and why not timelapse/motion control intergration (via a USB out – RS232 is a bit arcayic).. so the camera can combine movement cotroll and image capture.
All sorts of clever and intresting possibilities become avalible if the manufacturer allows the consumer/3rd party to program the camera.
I would even go as far as saying the open system camera will be the camera of the furtre – not 2yrs but 5yrs people will probably find a set camera a bit limmeted in its working.
Oh and did I mension 25p video 🙂 (infact the possibility to use any video format you can program for it… mov/mp4/avi/RAW/mpg2 etc etc) – probably could force a 16Mpix video but at crap frame rate… still better than not being able to do at all!
So much is limmeted – imagine if microsoft said no we build a spacifc machine for wordprocessing because it must not crash and ergonomics dictate a speciliest machine! Use another machine for pictures.. and another for sounds… and another for web surfing… no no – the 1 be all and end all machine is the way to go!
Most of this can be achieved by a good API; no need to install Android on the camera.
maybe – but what I talk about hear is just the tip of the berg! – the more open the more amazing it will end up being…
I wonder if the opposite could one day become true: “no need to develop expensive custom vendor software, as all this can be done with Adnroid”.
Why on earth tie oneself up to Android? There is no reason whatsoever to think that Android is the last word in OSes. By instead developing APIs that give controlled, but full access to camera functions, everything can be controlled from any smartphone OS. And the user should have possibilities to block such external control. Ideally, a group should define such “camera drivers”, e.g Adobe, Apple, Microsoft, Google, Nikon, Canon, etc.
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Personally, I would be very sceptical to tie myself to one provider, e.g Google, with a history of at times sending out suggestions that they should have some ownership/right to use files that has been into their system.
Android already has an API that could be easily adapted to a camera, genius. Oly has no interest in created an API for their cameras, which hamstrings photographers whether they realize it or not.
Android is not the right platform for a (semi) professional camera because it cannot guarantee the kind of real-time response and reliable operation required.
The basic issue is called ‘garbage collection’, which is conceptually incompatible with those requirements.
The workarounds that are possible (as used by some games on android that have similar real-time requirements) is to basicly hog all resources you need beforehand, and then manage them inside the applet. That is the wrong solution because you now have 3 layers for something that can be handled with a single layer in a more reliable way with less overhead.
And that one machine should be a smartphone/tablet running on Android?
You have a linux kernel in many Samsung TV sets… Do people hack their TV? Is it even possible? Same with ADSL boxes and so on…
I think customer want gear that “just works”. Some geeks or hackers may enjoy the possibility to add features, but frankly how many ppl “root” their smartphone or tablet to tweak the OS (and risk to brick it)? Why would that be different with an android camera locked on a “proprietary app market”? See how hard it is to get ie: cyanogen ROM to that multitude of smartphones out there, just because drivers aren’t open sourced… would that be different on a camera with its very specific hardware?
So yes, it may sounds fun to be able to just install any app onto your camera, but for many photographers out there, I think the most important is to be able to take pictures, not to tweak the system (I hope). So I understand Terada’s position: maybe in the future (and why Android?), but that’s not a priority.
Totaly agree – good point – it does not have to be android…
I’m game for a Linux Camera … it just has to be open… Have a “safe” manufacture setting in rom but allow things to be open.
Hacking TVs and even phones is a bit diffrent (although I’m sure there are plenty who hack their cable boxes :O ) – as they are more passive tools (ok phone has elements of but prodomenently we are surved stuff rather than make stuff).
Opening a camera is opening the documentry possibities – programable eyes can achive things dumb eyes can not.
Its not just a matter of people disagreeing with what you’d like, actually, I think many people would agree that it would be nice to ‘skin’ your camera, make changes to the user interface, install additional applets for special uses etc.
The problem jim is that you do not seem to be realizing what you are asking for when saying that Android is a good idea for achieving those goals. There are many technical reasons for this that have been pointed out over and over, but you keep acting as if those simply don’t exist or are user errors, No jim, they are design consequences, the result of the way in which Android operates. They cannot be overcome without changing how Android operates, which will turn Android into something that is conceptually incompatible with what Android is now.
So it is a BAD ™ idea, a very very bad one even. Not because of the nice and at times even desirable features it can offer, but because of the Android design being inherently unsuitable for reliable real-time operation.
Your biggest enemy is called GC, and is a pretty fundamental element in how Android manages resources, specifically memory. No, writing a better GC won’t fix it, the whole concept of a GC is inherently incompatible with real-time requirements.
“Your droids. They’ll have to wait outside.”
lol
Android/general OS has its advantages (apps from various parties, etc). But also disadvantages: can be hacked, can rip photos via wi-fi, can *install* photos, etc. What if someone download child porn to your camera and then tip off the police? For me, the most important is the photography possibilities. I think Olympus has made the right choice: enabling easy (?) download to a smartphone/tablet and then using this for image manipulation.
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In the latest figures, Windows Phone has almost the same market share as iOS/iPhone in important markets in Europe (France, Britain, erc). Olympus needs to make apps for WP and Windows, too.
Olympus should open its API or communication protocol enabling third party apps. No doubt soemone will reverse ingeneer it, but it would be a smartest move just to open it.
Apps like Sony does it right , is a fine thing & the FUTURE:
So we could configure a bit our camera ourselfe. -> Panoramastitching etc
look @ Sony App Store
A waste of time and space, a pity Sony don’t concentrate on lens design and not kids gimmicks.
WiFi/connected camera without a mobile OS and apps does not make a lot of sense. But Android as it is now is not a very good choice – too bloated, too long load time, too much energy consumption by the Java-based apps. It would need a lot of rework/tweaking, and I don’t think Oly has enough resources for that.
Yeah I’d rather have hooks into the camera as a connected device than be forced to run Android (with all its variants, inconsistencies, and problems) on my camera. Let the hobbyist tinkerer gear heads play with that. I want a dependable camera. Connections to the camera give you choices. Having to run Android would not.
Maybe I’m missing something, but why would anybody want a cell phone operating system on their camera? I kind of understand for Facebook or Instagram, etc. However, it appears that it has email, messages, documents, music…. Seems like a gimmick at best, and just more chances to have issues with the basic operation of the camera.
You mean you don’t want to play Angry Birds on your E-M6?
I sure do! I’d be waiting for my first Android virus, too! Not only that, I’d really like 5 minutes of battery life instead of what little we get from our cameras’ batteries now. 😉
Olympus cannot do this because getting close to the silicon on a PEN requires permission from Sony.
As I’d never consider owning any tiny sensored junk, it would simply makes no difference to me, or any serious photographer, for that matter, what Olympus did.
@ Fullframe only
Go buy yourself a real full frame camera like a medium or even larger format camera and stopping glorifying that 35mm point and shoot. You reek of insecurity.
People here are satisfied using a 43 sensor for many reasons and some may even also be using a 35mm dslr and giid for them.
Perhaps you should consider many 43 users have enough skill and excellent equipment to make up for whatever percieved “deficiencies” you claim this format has.
Simply, in this day and age if you can’t take good images with the latest Oly or Panny cams coupled with good glass than you don’t deserve the right to carry any camera except a $200 point and shoot and even those cams I think may be present an awkward challenge for you.
@Full frame only: we all know that you have this secret desire to dress in your net stockings and caress an FF 70-200/2.8. But that you only have a 1 system with a smallish zoom. And that you therefore have a secret lust/hate for the well equipped m43 system. Don’t worry; it’s ok!
I don’t care for a complete mobile operating system but an industry standard application development framerwork available with Android could offer new interesting ways to use the camera (especially for video). In that regard I’m all for new OS experiments. But that’s where the problem currently lies: I hear that Samsung’s implementation severely lacks vendor software support for driving various elements of the camera, so it basically makes even the basic application interfaces available in Adroid helpless and hence mostly useless so far. It would be exciting though if/when this information is proved wrong.
An Olympus camera running on Google and NSA code, yeah thanks but no thanks.
What do I need this nonsense for again? Our Oly and panny cameras won’t function without this bloatware invasive social media junk?
….As I mentioned, no thanks.
What? Think I’m beating on android?
WRONG! I own a Samsung galaxy note 2 and an 8 inch tablet both running android jelly bean and I enjoy these products.
I’m bias? Wrong agian! I also own an apple iphone 4 and an ipad 2 and I enjoy using those too, for what their intended purposes are.
If Olympus makes all it’s cameras into google cameras with weather sealing that work with zuiko glass then it’s goodbye for me. Oh, and that goes the same for an Oly camera running on iOS as well.
We have connectivity with all mobile systems already with the latest cams from both both Oly and panny and that will only get stronger and more refined so why do I need my camera to become a glorifed facebook, twitter and instagram hub?….yeah right, what next, a nikon d5 that runs android peanut butter?!
….lol.
What comes next is a camera where you can insert your Nespresso capsule into the lens mount with a spout fitted to the tripod mount, that’s what is next.
easy – kitchen sink 🙂
Android is not a good choice for now. However, the ability to extend/customize the OS through apps/addons/extension/scripts would be very nice.
As for the commenters,
Full framers, or should I say 35mmers :), please, stop spamming this site. We KNOW about your cameras. We know that they exist; and still chose the M43s over them. No need to remind us.
Thanks
….he also said that 12MP is enaugh i dont believe anything. And the new Canon 5d (or 3D?) is said to have Andriod to. Sooner or later they will follow i fear.
He actually said that 12mp is all that most people need. That’s probably true and not the same thing.
@ mma173
Android is not a good choice for now. However, the ability to extend/customize the OS through apps/addons/extension/
scripts would be very nice.
As long people are given a choice to add all these features or apps because they choose to turn their dedicated photography tool into that kind of thing and those who don’t want any of these features are free to use the cam with the stock standard Oly firmware and software.
I think that’s okay but for me personally if it ever got to the point were Oly was saying okay it’s android based or the highway and you don’t have a standard photogtaphy tool that offers options you can choose or refuse to use(apps or whatever else) than I move on.
Now i can sleep!!!
That’s good news. Too much non-sense on those Sammy cameras.
Why not buy both m43 and sony FF? They are not that expensive. 7 to 10k will get you both sets done.
Thank god, Android is a mess! I’d never touch a camera that used a iOS rip off system. Google had some nerve stealing it, shame on them!!!
I would rather hope for iOS on an Olympus m43 camera. After all, the way I see it Olympys is the Apple of Photography in my view – doing all the innovation and good design, but seeing the behemoths steal the market. But it changed for Apple and it will change for Olympus.