Olympus keeps sending messages about the future development. In an interview made by DigifotoPRO Toshiyuki Terada from Olympus confirmed that there will be an E-P3 successor. At that point I remind you that trusted sources that the E-P series as it was is will not continue. The new camera will be very different. Of course the first idea that will come into your mind is a PEN with integrated viewfinder. Taking inspiration from the past we can expect a sort of digital [shoplink 33877 ebay]Olympus PEN EM (they are here on ebay)[/shoplink]. A camera like that would have to compete against the very good Fuji X-E1 and Sony NEX-6.
The question is, what would you expect from a high End PEN camera to be competitive against the Fuji/Sony?
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Panasonic and Olympus Preorder Links with specs and price:
Special GH3 page at Amazon (Click here) and a full Olympus presentation page at Amazon (Click here).
GH3 at Amazon (Click here), Adorama (Click here), Bhphoto (Click here) and in Europe at Wexphotographic UK (horrible price in UK!).
35-100mm X lens at Amazon (Click here), Bhphoto (Click here).
E-PL5 at Amazon (Click here), Adorama (Click here), Bhphoto (Click here). In EU at Amazon Germany, Amazon UK, Amazon France,
E-PM2 at Amazon (Click here), Adorama (Click here), Bhphoto (Click here). In EU at Amazon Germany, Amazon UK, Amazon France,
XZ-2 at Amazon (Click here), Adorama (Click here), Bhphoto (Click here).
60mm macro at Amazon (Click here), Adorama (Click here), Bhphoto (Click here).
12mm Black prime lens at Amazon (Click here), Adorama (Click here), Bhphoto (Click here).
15mm cap-lens at Amazon (Click here), Adorama (Click here), Bhphoto (Click here).
156 Responses
INTEGRATETD VIEWFINDER Hi-Res!!!!
Electronic Shutter like Pana G5 or GH3
Same Sensor as E-M5 with 5-axis-stabi
Full HD 50/60p
thats all 😉
It would be commercial suicide not to produce a Pen with EVF. I hope that Olympus have been waiting for an EVF that is a big upgrade to the VF-2/OM-D unit.
Much as I am tempted by the E-M5, I really don’t want to have the EVF in the centre, and I don’t really need weatherproofing on a camera at this stage.
I would find it very hard to resist a modern version of the Pen FT ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olympus_Pen_F ), which is the ILC version of the EM. If they also have the 5-axis IS, there is no way I could hold out!
Wouldn’t a PEN with integrated EVF basically be a E-M5? 🙂
Yeah, sure, with the EVF in a different location. Can’t be that hard to make, surely! A little smaller than the E-M5, a little smoother to slip into a pocket. But not much different. 😉
Please, a little bigger than EM5, slim though, and a VF enabling light tuning in order to avoidproblems in low light !
With the hump-less Pen-Look and simpler button layout and without weather sealing there would be enough differenciation.
A little smaller than E-M5? Simpler button layout?
Guys, after looking at GH3, the E-M5 looks SO simple to me that I don’t want it anymore 🙂 Determined to get the Pany now) Just my opinion, of course.
Needs differ. I wouldn’t miss the hump – on the contrary – and I could live without the few missing buttons. But for me weather sealing alone is a strong argument for the OM-D.
I wouldn’t consider a Panasonic – first because of Oly IBIS, second because I prefer Oly jpegs, third I like Olys customer service and fourth because I will never forgive Panasonic the silliness to force the finnish industrial duo, back than with the same name, to change their name into Pan Sonic.
Interesting. I view simple layouts as a pro, not a con. That’s one of the reasons I go back to shooting film from time to time: simplicty.
Needs are different, but IMO if a camera designed correctly then it doesn’t need tons of controls for every single camera function. I can see a need for sports photographers to have external controls to everything for quick access, but a PEN is not a sports camera.
Just take a look at the $22k Leica S2, very clean, very simple. Has just what you need without getting in the way. If Olympus makes an EP-3 successor with a built in EVF and weather seals then I’d very much consider selling my X-Pro1 to get it.
+1
A camera should help you taking your pictures, and for the rest get out of the way instead of constantly needing attention.
A streamlined workflow and controls that match that workflow is much much more important then having controls for every possible thing you can change.
But then.. coming from the age when all camera controls were mechanical, I learned to adapt my workflow to what a camera offers, and learned to appreciate the benefits of various different ways of doing the same thing, and hence are not stuck to knowing only one way and insisting that every camera that can’t provide that one way (but does provide good alternatives) must by definition suck.
exactly, if I were Olympus there’s no way I’d do thi, it makes no sense
EM-5, slighlty smaller, without the weather-proofing, $700. I’d buy one today if I could.
And they will not go on their word. The lineup will not continue.
It will be something competely different… Its gonna have a built in viewfinder!
Ha-ha, and it will be celebrated, like they wantbit to be.
The Olympus hype machine is at it again!:-)
If the new Pen come with vf, I will be sure that EM5 price will be dropped a lot. Because they will use the same sensor and the same viewfinder.
The only different will be the IS and the body.
The OM-D could still hold its position above the top PEN, due to weather-proofing. Personally, I’ll be looking for weather-proofing when they bring out a PDAF version of m43, with fast telephotos to match.
“The question is, what would you expect from a high End PEN camera to be competitive against the Fuji/Sony?”
A E-PL5 with integrated viewfinder (the new one from Epson) and second wheel just like the E-P3 should be more than enough to deal with the NEX 6.
For lower priced cameras an external EVF is better because you can choose which generation and price point of EVF you want to use, or whether you waznt to use it at all. EVF makes the camera bigger, and the optional evf can be tilted and generally works better anyway. Ify ou must have an integrated EVF then just get an E-M5.
For me I see not much value to an evf when you have a flip-up screen allowing me to avoid sun glare by shooting at waist level, and also have touch-to-shoot like on the e-pl5.
@Andrew: that solution has been here since the second PEN, and users have been wanting a built in rangefinder positioned EVF since then. I like using a viewfinder rather than the LCD (for many reasons), and choice is a good thing.
I already have what you want, now I want what I want!
Seriously, I have been with m43 from the beginning, but I find myself looking very hard at a Fuji XE-1 right now. Would rather it was a PEN.
+1000 !
+1
The XE-1 looks nice, but why on Earth is the exposure compensation button limited to +/- 2 EV?
+1.
As soon as my preordered Fuji X-E1 arrives (can’t wait!), I will be looking for a new home for my GX1 (my SO will keep the lenses, since she has an E-P3;).
Frankly, I have been waiting for a rangefinder style mirrorless since Panasonic GF1 (well, since Panasonic DMC-L1, really;), and I am surprised (and disappointed) that Olympus and (especially!) Panasonic has yet to deliver this — m43 seems like the perfect system for this! Until then… X-E1, here I come! 😉
Andrew
I totally agree. Make it modular with flip-out display. Give it everything the E-M5 has inside. Make it small.
I want some good new About a new E-Pro- Camera, not PENs. Pen cameras are good, little, but, three model every year is too much. Let’s think about your pro-photographer, too.
There is necessary direct competition for Fuji EX1 and Sony NEX6 – rangefinder body with EVF, smaller (lower) then OMD. And next generation of OMD clearly better then EP3 successor.
The main question is how to differenciate EP3 successor and OMD or OMD sucessor? Oly can make some difference by new version of firmware (add some new options and possibilities for OMD), and create some new accessoriess wich have more possibilities in OMD body than in PEN bodies.
Problem is taht Olympus has been mistaken for long in refusing to deliver what market is waiting for.
Now it’s not about so much “how to differenciate the right pen from the OMD” than “how to compete with the standard natural shape” presently delivered by Fuji and Sony !!!
Please Oly and Pana… hurry up and do not bother with subtilities !
When will it be available… I do not have a camera right now after I sold my fuji X100 – the best camera I ever had… E-M5 has absolutely everything I will ever need, including the 5-axis IBIS which will be important for me for video, but I would prefer the form factor of the pens… Do you think that the new pen will have both a VF and the 5-axis IBIS? I generally do not think so, as it will make E-M5’s only advantage the weather-proved body, which is not enough for differentiation. In this case, I might just get the E-M5.
The other option is to get instead GX1 + 12-35 2.8, and it will be a tough decision what option to choose…..
you sold the best camera you ever had!? don’t get caught up in this marketing!
I did, cause I can’t afford having X100 + interchangeable lens system and I lacked some very important for me features on the X100. For the 1,5 year since I bought the X100 micro 43 made big progress so now I am ready to get into this system.
Jawohl! That’s exactly the camera I was hoping for. Glad that i resisted the Om-D and the E-X1. Bad news for Fuji and Sony, but excellent for us. Even if the IBIS is slightly less, it will be quite an advantage.
However Oly learn from experience! LCD in 16:9 aspect is suicide. Button placement in the OM-D not v. good, No captions under the buttons create short term memory problems.
Offer it also in kit with the new 17/1.8 and it will be a dream kit. Learn ergos from Fuji, especially!
I was predicting theE-P5 for Spring 2013 and here it is. Better start saving now and hope that the Mayan calendar fails 🙂
Better yet, leave the bloody LCD off altogether……never liked them, myself. 🙁
I do not think Olympus will make a camera for a couple of users – you and may be someone else on Earth 😉
… and stop those stupid add on flashes. Built in like in the PL1. Never mind if the camera is slightly bigger or longer. The X-E1 is about the perfect FF. But is has no IBIS and no dust shaker 🙂
The X-E1 does have some kind of dust shaker either 😀 (check the brochure).
Yes maybe 16:9 LCDs are suicide as you say on the Pens as makes them much smaller than Panys LCDs as are only 2.3″ diagonal compared to 3″ viewed at 3:2? This is probably one of the factors aside from the inbody flash that makes the GF3/5 so popular. However doesn’t Sony also use 16:9 LCDs on all their NEXs in order to minimize the size and height of their models? In contrast Fuji with XE1 has used the larger 3:2 LCD screen so is greater height by at least 0.3″ than the NEX7/6 to fit the EVF in. I think if the next EP5 is a small rangefinder style it will retain a 16:9 LCD screen.
The successor of EP3 must have
1. High revolution OLED build in viewfinder
2. Sensor than better than EPL5 , a top sensor
3. 5 axis IS
than I’ll consider to buy it .
Not greedy, as long as it has the features of the E-M5 (Minus weather sealing ) with the body of E-P3, I’ll be happy.
I rather Oly focus on mid-range and high end lenses, zooms especially. No news on the 12-60mm? =/
If they release a new PEN with the same form factor of the existing E-Px series, and with the OM-D sensor or better, I will throw my money at them. If they can keep the form factor and integrate a viewfinder, that would be ridiculously awesome.
A Pen with a integrated VF is required to match the competition and to supply customers with what they are requesting.
A Pen with an EVF on the left hand side is not the same as an EM5. IMHO a current Pen with a VF2 or 3 is the same format as an EM5, not a RF styled camera body.
A new Pen needs the built in EVF, a dedicated 2nd dial and hard buttons on both sides of the LCD. Options for differing grips would also be a great idea. A slightly larger body compared with the EP1,2,3 would be preferred. Somewhere between the current EP3 and the X-E1.
Electronic shutter
PDAF support, if possible
Flash sync shutter speed of 1/250.
WHEN pls tell me WHEN ! 🙂
The successor of EP3 must have:
1. High resolution OLED build in viewfinder on the upper left corner (RF style)
2. Same Sensor as E-M5 without 5-axis-IS
3. No weather-proofing
4. Thumb wheel as E-P3, E-P2/E-P1
5. new 17/1.8 as kit lense possibility
6. PEN F Style: wider vs taller
For me these ergonomic requirements are most important – more important than anything.
1. Focus peaking.
2. Orientation sensor (I know it is on E-3 but not on PL/PM – just to prevent forgetting).
3. Articulated (or at least tilt) screen.
4. WiFi control from Android/Iphone.
Sony NEX 5 has all that.
7. I forgot the inbuilt flash, please Olympus, do not forget it too!
I forgot that, too. I never thought I wanted built-in flash, but now I use the EPL2 flash ALL THE TIME for fill-in.
To all the silly people asking for an integrated view finder…
Just go buy a VF2 an some super glue and get over it.
If you can’t see the value of not having a view finder with you, then just keep it on there all the time. Don’t force the rest of us to glue ours on.
lol
I want my toy just for me… it’s mine only mine MINE :O
You are hysterical mate
… answering just for Fun:
you could also put some black/silver tape on the EVF and you would keep the FF, whereas doing what you recommend to us will alter the FF
Have a nice day!
That might be your idea of a solution but you’re forgetting those that need the hot shoe for other things, like maybe a flash. 😉 This is one reason (among many) why the E-M5 is better than a PEN. If somehow a new E-Px can have the EVF included on the left (to satisfy many that have asked for it) as well as a pop-up flash & the two control wheels, it would be a great seller for sure (so long as it at least matches E-M5 general specs).
+100
I must remember to add my name before posting (the above).
EM5 minus weather sealing, E-P3 format, with EVF, 5-axis IBIS, two wheels, priced around 900-1000$ with kit lens, and bring down EM5 to 1100$. 100$ for weather sealing is reasonable .
As mentioned, not to have a built in EVF while facing the NEX 6 and the X-E1 would be commercial suicide. That is why I have high hopes.
One could also imagine a more Pro OM-D for Spring 2013, so the E-P5 would slid nicely in between that and the E-PL5.
The latter is exactly for those who don’t want a built in EVF.
Wonder what Panny will do though.
It’s very simple, a NEX7 with an E-M5 sensor and IBIS
+1
A 6 will do :).
Great news. The Pen can “replace” the current OM-D (with corner EVF, further improvements maybe even a slightl improved sensor / processor and the OM-D gets a big bother with “a solution” for 4/3 glas, staying above the PEN line. It wouldn’t have made much sense to bring out three new pens right now with the same technologie inside…
btw: why is everybody so interested in the old models? Why can’t they just develop and design new styles optimized for the current technic?
What’s the point of yet another rangefinder lookalike?
If you want it, why not just buy fuji or nex?
My guess is that EP5 might have built in VF, and be basically OMD without sealing, but not yet – only by the time there’s OMD successor in a form of a slightly bigger camera with more professional features than current OMD (such as faster shutter speed, more pro build, better EVF and hopefully full 43 compatibility).
“What’s the point of yet another rangefinder lookalike?
If you want it, why not just buy fuji or nex?”
Because they have larger lenses and cannot match m4/3 lenses neither in quality nor in quantity.
What if you have already spent money on the M4/3 primes?
Changing system every 3 years could lead to bankrupt.
I think it is better to invest in glass than in cameras, I still own my E-P1 waiting for the desired E-PX….
I’m in the same situation. Still using the E-P1 and this could be the right successor!
L-E-N-S-E-S, in six letters.
Both the ones I already have and the others to come that I’m getting moist about.
How I wish the next Olympus or Panasonic cameras has an EVF viewfinder on the left hand side. I don’t mind the camera being an inch or so longer. The advantage of putting your right eye to the view finder while your left eye views the whole sceen out-ways the extra inch or so, but will Olympus or Panasonic give Joe public what we want, I doubt it. They must know this is number one on our list, they have giving us wonderful prime lenses. For me I don’t want a DSLR type Micro 4/3 camera. Sony with there Nex 7 and 6 bodies brought out nice cameras, but failed to bring out prime lenses. I sometimes wonder who sit down and decide what we want, they don’t appear to listern to Joe public to see what we want, no wonder they make heavy losses.
I for one would be in the front line for a rangefinder type camera with EVF I hope I don’t have to dream to long
Agree about the primes. I have totally converted to primes now for 14,20,45 mm. I only use zooms at the extremes 7-14, 100-300. It works really well and the small fast lenses are the USP for mft. The 17mmf1.8 Oly looks nice but I am not sure I will trade in the 20. If Oly go on to fill the 17.5 to 45mm gap with a pancake 30f1.8 I will be there. The Sigma 30 is fine but too large and slow and the Schneider will be too big & expensive.
why don’t we ask Olympus to place the viewfinder on the right top corner of the camera? I use my left eye to compose…
You probably have as much chance of this as I have wanting no LCD…..the bias against “the sinister ones” has very deep historical roots.
That said, the first company to make such a camera would make a killing!
why don’t we ask Olympus to place the viewfinder on the right top corner of the camera? I use my left eye to compose…
Make it Modular:
With a locking release, be able to swap a unit with a front firing flash (not pop up) and the shutter button, and a unit with the built in EVF to opposite sides.
Will they do it? I would not hold my breath! 🙂
Bernie… are you assuming that everyone uses their right eye to view in the view finder?? For me, my *left* is better than my right eye, so I would thus prefer to use my left eye for the view finder!
Wow, what a news! It may be the camera I’m waiting for.
“what would you expect from a high End PEN camera to be competitive against the Fuji/Sony?”
I suppose you already know that 😉 :
1. built in EVF
2. built in flash that has bounce function, like in L1 and is usable – at least GN14 at ISO 100
3. E-M5 or better sensor
4. E-M5 or better IBIS
5. articulating OLED touchscreen 3″ or smaller
6. at least two control wheels
7. proper grip, unlike anything seen on Oly m4/3 to date
8. PDAF on sensor that works with 4/3 lenses
9. focus peaking
10. ISO 100
11. adjustable in camera HDR
12. multiple exposure stacking modes
13. in camera apps
Most of these have already been seen on Olympus cameras and almost all the rest ( except for apps ) is more than one year on competitors’ models, so there’s nothing extraordinary here.
Forgot global shutter. But I guess the manufacturers have forgotten that as well :).
14. global shutter or anything that removes flash sync speed limit.
Dear Olympus, PLEASE make sure the batteries are interchangeable between EP5 and EM5. Having different batteries will not make me buy more, but will piss me off and make me wait for the GX2.
thanks for this comment-just realised that i can use the 6(!) batteries that i bought for my E-P2, fit in the new E-PL5 as well…
So from my point this is a big plus for the new Pens->until now only the Om-D got different batteries 😉
But i think they really should go for one kind of batteries for the whole mft system-wouldnt mind if they choose the one from Om-D in the future (because i will get the E-PL5 anyway and will be save for some years then)
“…and it will be THIS big.”
LOL! Good one!
An E-P3 successor must (i) have a rangefinder form factor, or else it is not a PEN, and (ii) a raison d’etre — a reason for being, i.e it must distinguish itself from other cameras.
* the sensor must at least have the quality of the E-M5 sensor,
* if it has a built-in EVF, it must maintain the E-P3 “rangefinder” form factor — it must be humpless; with a hump it would be an OM-D,
* if it does *not* have a built-in EVF, it is hard to see how it can be made sufficiently different from the E-PL5 — unless they add a new EVF connector allowing for more advanced EVF features, etc.
* in order to make it an interesting addition for selected E-M5 users (i.e me :-)):
— rangefinder form factor, built-in EVF (humpless!)
— high quality EVF — similar to or better than that of the NEX-7
— probably focus peaking
— upgraded user interface, two control wheels like the E-M5
— not necessarily LCD; the camera should be robust
— built-in flash. If necessary, the program selector wheel could be stacked with one of the two other wheels, just like in e.g Nikon DSLRs to make room for the flash
— weather sealing and IBIS-5 — very nice, but not at every cost
— connectivity: built-in support for external control from smartphone/tab via app, and for uploading pictures
— small/pocketable — similat to the E-P3
— body only, or kit with 17/1.8
Oly will have a smaller sensor. It means it has to equal the competiotion in all aspects (seems realistic) and also clearly surpass in one or two areas. The most obvious would be built-in 5axis IS which the competition lacks.
A “next generation” EVF, better than current is a possibility.
Oly also needs a kit zoom that sits above normal quality and below the small rang, expensive Pana 12-25. The Fuji zoom has a boring range but probably has great quality. A Oly zoom 12-50/2,8-4 shorter, heavier and more expensive than the current 12-50, slow and decent, kit zoom!?
(Yes, I already hear many shouting about primes. I mainly shoot prime too. However I strongly feel a HQ zoom is very versatile and convienient. Actually most pro’s use their big and heavy HQ zooms all the time. There is a reason for this. When it comes to primes, Oly and Fuji are/will be on par and Sony anchored at the bottom for some time.)
Personally, looking at user interface a Pana GX2 is more appealing than a Oly Pen, but a GX2 will face the competition lacking the built in IS advantage.
I think both Oly and Pany need new rangefinder models with EVF to compete successfully against NEX6 with its new small kit zoom and the XE1 with its faster std lens. Oly still holds an advantage with its new IBIS and both Pany and Oly with their faster AF systems and smaller lenses and choices.
I think Pany will get there first with the GX2 in December and Oly with EP5 in June? I would love to see rangefinder version of the EM5.
Admin – Any rumor news on the GX2?
An OVF with integrated EVF would be great.
Don’t put a useless integrated flash on the EP5.
There’s no way they’ll manange to put in an OVF that can cover the view of 7-300mm focal length. And if it can’t cover the range of the lenses, what’s the point?
Agreed, OVF’s with complete coverage no matter the lens is why they invented SLR’s. Plenty of them on the market.
The integrated flash can be used to control the fl50r and Fl36r.
My two penn’orth;
MUST haves;
E-P3 controls – i.e. a thumbwheel, not just those horrible vertical spinny dial thingies that are just awful and in the wrong place.
Some form of IBIS – not necessarilly the 5-axis, but something to stabilise primes
The E-M5 sensor and processor
Some form of articulating screen
Would LIKE;
Built-in EVF, as long as it’s a good one. Do it right or don’t bother.
5-axis IBIS
Refined E-M5 sensor & processor
A third control wheel (perhaps forefinger?)
Built-in flash
Full swivel screen (reversible)
Better battery life
A decent grip (perhaps removable for those who want a flat front?)
As a left-eye shooter I don’t care where they put the EVF, and weather-sealing is pointless for me as none of my lenses are weather-sealed (and if it’s raining I tend to go and find somewhere warm and dry to sit).
New EP3 (EP5) should have the same things like in Fuji and Sony (NEX6). EVF is necessary. EPL3 with EVF maybe…
But what will be the difference between EP5 and OMD if the sensor will be the same, and EVF the same (or better in EP5)? Better IS in OMD? So small. Waterproof body? But there are only 2 waterproof lenses – slow 12-50 and macro 60. If there will be new version waterproof 14-54 for micro43, and something else… maybe there is a sense.
Or OMD will get something new, more function, better support for films, for specific branch of photography (time elapse, IR, ect.), ISO 100, better panorama mode, HDR… etc. by new firmware, dedicated only for OMD (not for PEN).
Luckily, Olympus doesn’t worry too much if they improve IQ on a lower level camera over a higher level model that was released earlier.
This may sound confusing to some, but the E-PL1 is superior to the E-P1 in many ways. I’m sure the same thing happened with the four thirds range.
Even now, an E-5 body will cost more than an E-M5, but has a 12MP sensor.
Olympus realises that real camera users think of more than just IQ, and are prepared to pay for reliability, manual controls, durability (weather-proofing, impact resistance etc). I suspect also that, as a company, they prefer to test new technology on cheaper models before trusting it in their top range. Mercedes also tends to follows this policy. Audi, on the other hand, puts the latest tech in the A8, which is why the lower models a year or two on are the ones to buy for reliability reasons!
A high-quality built-in EVF and flash, and the E-M5 sensor are good enough for me. I highly doubt there would be an OVF option as that would be quite expensive and even Fuji is moving away from them already with its latest models. The five-axis IBIS? A lot of people seem to want this. But I don’t think it’s necessary. Weather resistance and the 5-axis IBIS would be a great way to differentiate the E-M5. But if Oly can find a way to fit it into the E-P3 successor and keep the price down, fine. But it still don’t see it happening.
I’m the other one!
Would be happy with just an EVF, the rear screen is more or less redundant.
Like Andrew, I am not convinced by the benefits of an internal evf: it cannot be tilted, it cannot be upgraded, it increases unnecessarily the size of the camera and decreases the size of the back screen, it is more expensive, in the long run, because you have to pay for it again every time you buy a new camera body. A pop-up evf would deal with the size problem, but not with the others. Plus it would have to be so small that it would be next to useless. Besides: PEN+evf=EM; why would Oly design two bodies and keep two production lines for essentially the same product? I would rather have an accessory L shaped bracket with a hotshoe, in order to attach the flash (or, for that matter, the evf) to side of the camera. Plus a built-in pop-up fill-in flash, if there is space for it.
What I want to see is old fashioned separate manual controls (rings and dials) for focus, speed, aperture and ISO. Preferably also at least one more multifunction dial for white balance, colour schemes and nd filter, point autofocus, a joystick to for quick setting of the spot-metering and the autofocus point, and, of course, focus peaking. A hybrid electronic / in body leaf shutter would also be great (it would have to be hybrid, to allow for speeds up to 1/8.000). And I can only dream of the possibility of adding a tilt/shift function to the 5 ax IBIS. It would not replace bellows, it would not probably even match tilt/shift lenses, but it would still give us the tools to do architectural photography like never before.
And, frankly, I want to see all that in a body not bigger than the PL-5, or even the PM-2 (those who want a bigger body or extra grip, can always buy an external horizontal and vertical grip), if the camera has a fixed screen. If it has a tilt screen, I would like to see a mechanism for both horizontal and vertical tilt (sometimes we shoot in portrait orientation, you know).
Bells and whistles, like GPS and WiFi, can be welcome (you can always switch them off if you do not need them, which, I presume, will be most of the time), but they are definitely not essential. 60fps video (not to mention 120 fps) would also be welcome, but not at the expense of size or still quality.
On the other hand I would like to see a new external efv, with a 120fps frame rate and an analysis of at least 2.5mp – possibly even 5 mp (an analysis already available for medical imaging). It would not come cheap – hence my preference for external evfs (see above).
There is little point in discussing sensors – Oly will get whatever Sony offers. But I would love to see a backlit sensor, with as many of the advanced features that you see today in video sensors as possible, eg dual gain path (like alev III) and all the other goodies that allow for circa 15 stops dr and improved high ISO / low light performance. And on-sensor hybrid autofocus, of course. Multiple point continuous autofocus is one of the few areas where m4/3 is still lacking behind. Oh – and no anti-alias filter please (or at least make it as light as possible)!
There is only one thing more in my wish list: High Grade retracting lenses and zooms – wherever possible. It is not an easy thing to do (retracting mechanism on the one hand and robustness, tight tolerances, and exact calibration to high grade standards on the other, don’t go well together and even if they did they would be a quality control nightmare), but it is worth trying. Size and weight, remember, are the biggest attractions of the m4/3 format – if you don’t care about that, you can always go bigger.
All i’m doing now is waiting for the XE1 from Fuji, to confirm the autofocus speed is really as good as they say, I would have sold my M43 gear if the Xpro-1 was any good at focussing but they blundered that up.
I’ve been with M43 from the start, I still have my E-P2 as my MAIN camera, I used to have a Canon DSLR but took a gamble, and loved it, but it’s getting a little long in the tooth and i’m keeping an eye out.
If they managed the classic E-Px design with EVF and EM5 sensor i’d be there, what i’d love would be some kind of neutral variable density filter inside the camera, that would send me bonkers.
I’m in a good position though, I am all but convinced about the Fuji XE-1 but must wait for confirmation on the autofocus speeds on all the lenses, if Oly brings out the competition against this in the meantime they juuuuust might snatch me away considering I have a bag full of M43 prime lenses i’d love not to have to sell.
“Like Andrew, I am not convinced by the benefits of an internal evf”
So just get an E-PM2 with a VF-3?
Choice is good, and the new camera is likely to have the exact same image quality as the E-M5 and new PENs.
For those who don’t see the value of a built-in EVF, there is always the E-PL5. If Oly doesn’t include a built-in EVF in this next Pen, the Sony NEX 7 and NEX 6 will eat it’s lunch in the marketplace. One must remember the business aspect.
For those who want all of the features of the E-M5 in this next Pen, are you prepared to pay $1200+ for it? Because that’s that it will cost. I am not prepared to pay that much. The NEX 6 comes in at $999 with power zoom lens and the EVF from the NEX 7. That’s the real competition.
Well put Steve. A bit more manual control than the E-PL5, an EVF in the corner like an XE-1/ NEX-6, otherwise specc’d like the E-PL5. Sure, 5-axis EVF would be a bonus, as would weatherproofing, yadyadayada, but all that would come at a cost. Built in corner EVF is the main thing that we don’t currently have on any other m43 body.
Fair point Steve. On the other hand – the price of the EM-5 seems to be dropping to NEX6 levels, so the competitor to NEX6/7 is already there and the only difference you are proposing is one of styling. Cut the 5-axis IBIS and you are too close to the PL5. Then, if you add the evf either the price will be too close to the EM5 to make sense, or too close to the PL5 to allow it some commercial breathing space. And if you add both the evf and the 5-axis IBIS and still split the difference in price, you kill both the EM5 and the PL5 with one shot. To my mind, there is simply not enough space between the EM5 (now that the price is falling) and the PL5, neither in specifications nor in price, for an intermediate model (with evf) to make enough sense. I would rather see two top of the line models, separated in price and specifications only by the inclusion (or not) of an evf, just as Fuji has produced two models, with the same specifications, one with an ovf and one without.
You make good points as well about pricing. We see the camera industry run into this problem as a new generation of cameras overlaps a bit with the previous one. Pentax, for example, had its brand-new K-30 priced within $100 of the outgoing K-5 (which was supposed to be positioned higher in the line-up). But now the K-5 is gone and the K-5 II and K-5 IIs have restored the price difference. The E-M5 has been out how long now? Nine months? Perhaps the E-M6 will restore the price (and feature) differential between the OM-D line-up and the Pen line-up. But, of course, I’m guessing here.
You can see the AF comparison @phoblographer. It is still night and day between Olympus and Fuji.
However Fuji has a terrific design and if the E-P5 doesn’t have a built in EVF, I might seriously consider it.
If Oly wants to sell enough 800-900 $ cameras it needs to fit in a built in EVF. Others already do, and customers will take notice. Sony and Fuji already do.
My one main request for an E-P5 is a thumb wheel/finger wheel, somewhere near the shutter button. The horrid and universally hated ‘vertical spinny dial thingies’ on the back are the biggest turn off in the current Pen range.
I’m assuming decent (if not 5 axis) IBIS and the E-M5 sensor.
Additionally I would like
EVF – in the corner but tiltable like the VF-2. (I see the fixed EVF on the E-M5 as a major drawback for that form factor), tiltable EVF would be a major selling point against the Nex and Fuji. I really hope they don’t try to make an OVF, I like the EVF approach.
More than happy for the flash to go, never use them.
A kit with the new 17mm F1.8 would be nice 🙂
> The question is, what would you expect from a high End PEN camera to be competitive against the Fuji/Sony?
– Integrated EVF.
– Updated 17mm pancake.
How the new pen would differentiate with Fuji and Nex 6 ?
-> The amount of lenses : no problem
How the new pen would differentiate from the em5 ?
-> The price : lower than $ 1000
How the new pen would miss the target ?
-> No EVF or…
-> No thum dial or…
-> Not slim enough or …
-> Not large enough !
Please do not try to reinvent working ergonomy and deliver the simply right stuff !
If the EM5 successor had 10 bit 4-2-2 video out to an external recorder (and somebody made an underwater housing for the camera and recorder, natch) that would make it not only a step up from the PEN but also the GH3. Then all I would need would be a bright rectilinear wide angle with about 100 degree angle of view. PLEASE, Mr. Olympus.
Do you think fixed lens? An Olympus answer to Fuji x100 would be welcome (as long as it was APS-C).
To all rangefinder lookalike(OVF on left side) PEN fans:
Please remember Olympus have burnt their fingers with two unsuccesfull rangefinder like models (E300, E330) in near past. I’m sure they will think over several times, before putting something with left EVF on the market for this reason…
+1
Many people back then complained they could not accept a dslr without a hump!
It shows how inconsistent we are lol.
I don’t think the presence of a viewfinder was E3X0’s problem.
If anything, people complained that the viewfinder was BAD (http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/olympuse330/27) — something that has since been addressed by Sony and Fuji (and by Pana/Oly themselves, in add-on/external viewfinders).
Who could have thought that the new version of Panasonic DMC-L1 would be called Fuji X-E1. 😉
Integrated EVF and fully articulated LCD PPPLLLLEEEEEEEAAAAASSSE.
If thats what you want theres always the g5. Its got a built in flash too…
Better manual focussing assistance, as I wrote several times. No improved focussing, no deal.
Right! No PEN light and PEN mini wthout a PEN!
For a long time, I wanted a side viewfinder pen too, but at this point, the “make it like an L1 rangefinder wanna be” opining is getting old. Oly is trying to slim down their model range. Getting rid of the e-p gets rid of the model most likely to have a viewfinder below the om-d. If they’re trying to scale down, I’m sure they think that if you want a built in vf, you can buy an om, if you don’t, you buy a pen, if you can’t make up your mind, oh look! A nice selection of very good add on vfs to choose from.
I wouldn’t be suprised if simply moving the hotshoe to the side would be enough to stop some of the whining. 😉
PS I totally agree on the built in flash. I love mine on the e-pl1 for bounce or fill, it does an admirable job and adds a lot of flexibility. I would almost never bother carrying around the add on flash unit. With small bodies like the e-pm, which i’d try to cram in the smallest bag or pocket possible, the add on flash is just a total flop. Plent of point and shoots find room for them (even the rx100 with its big sensor), plenty of other ILCs see value in it.. If one of the new pens had a built in flash, I would have ordered by now. It’s that big of a deal for me.
The main reason for making a Pen camera with an evf is the styling, to be able to offer built in evf in both om-d and pen style. Of course, this is all the more reason to make it, since style is a huge deal for Olympus mirrorless.
There is one other option, to follow the Nikon V1/Argus A style vf, just a little box on top of the body, not a big hump.
Did you ever try to cram an em-5 Into some case or (big) pocket ?
Should that happen, you would soon think about a bulk-less body !
Yes, I do so nearly every day.
The size of the body and hump isn’t a problem, too big a lens however is.
HYBRID FOCUS is all I need, that my E-PL3 has not. Ok, a better sensor and better high ISO would be nice. But I really need the phase detective (sith contrast detective) focus, and I think we are close to replace the DSLR’s. I have the VF-2, so I do not necessary need a EVF, though it would be nice. I don’t like the EM-5’s viewfinder, the one in Nikon 1 V1 is much better in my opinion.
another fish tin, great ….
Maybe it’ll be a larger tin with trout rather than kippers this time. 😉
Best news I’ve heard in the whole of September! (including all the Photokina new launches)
I have the same wish as many others in terms of sensor from OM-D (or better) and top-left EVF. But I have one wish that no one mentioned yet… and it is not something that’s strictly speaking Olympus’ problem… but PLEASE MAKE IT WORK WITH THE PANA LEICA 25MM with no excessive rattlesnake sound issue!
Very good news! Makes me happy, that Olympus goes head to head with X-e1 and Nex-6/7. With m43 big lens sortiment they may have the upperhand, if the design and imagequality is improved.
1. Built-in humpless EVF
2. Compact (pocketable)
3. IBIS
Leave out the flash if necessary to keep it pocketable.
I think this what they are doing for next years photokina.
1) Release BOTH the new e-p5 with a new e-m5
2) e-p5 will be rangefinder style with current e-m5 view finder, 16mp, cost approximately $999 to $1199
3) new e-m5 will be even more of a pro-body, new pro features, higher res viewfinder, better video, higher 24MP count. cost will be approximately $1299
But photokina is every two years…
lol.. yeah, u got me there.. I think it’ll be revealed next Fall though, not at Photokina 2014.
And I am not sure if 24MP on a MFT sensor would be a good thing. 12-16MP seems to be the sweet spot technically speaking given sensor surface area.
I agree.. 24mp will be a lot for the m43 sensor size, but that’s the forward progress of technology. Sony has an excellent 1″ 20MP sensor. No reason why they couldn’t build a 24MP version of that for Olympus. It might have more noise but the amount of detailed captured will be worth it for very large prints.
A few people asking for video stuff in the E-P5. It’s not a camcorder. If you really want video capabilities, go buy a GH3. Please don’t load the Pen range down with video options.
+1
Admin,.
review of E-PL 5 at Ming Thein
http://blog.mingthein.com
I can’t wait to see which crucial feature will be omitted. 😛
Actually I think the E-PL line should be removed. An E-PM and a E-P line would be the best solution and togheter with the OM-D, it would cover the whole price range. Who wants the word light on his cam anyway ? 🙂
It that case the E-P5 would fill the gap between the EP-M line and OM-D/fuji/NEX7
This would be a great line up :
E-PM = mini/cheap +- 400 dollars
E-P = metal rangefinder (like E-P1) +-700 dollars
OM-D = Weather resistant, built in EVF, 5 axis IBIS… +- 1000 dollars
+1
Very well said. And please no tilting screen on the E-P5.
I’m gonna say which would many excited people here would hate to hear. As a current OMD owner, I do not want to see a new Pen with an integrated viewfinder. I also have EP2 with a viewfinder. Once a Pen with an integrated viewfinder comes out, my OMD value will drop, and so will my viewfinder. Sure, I don’t intend to sell my gears anytime soon, but that’s not the point. I would hate to see my gears losing value so quickly. A couple years later? Sure. I mean, digital equipments all lose their values eventually.
I don’t think weather sealing alone is a significant enough differentiator. For me, I didn’t buy my OMD for its weather sealing. It was the integrated viewfinder, better sensor, and 5-axis IS. New Pen series already have the new sensors, but I can live with that. But EP5 with everything that my OMD has just in a different casing? No thanks, not now.
The real question is this: will there be a new 14-42 lens? Never enough of those!
They can make it a fixed f/16 lenscap while they’re at it. 😉
Hmm, the new E-PM/L didn’t get a new 14-42, but who knows..
An Olympus version of that 14-42 ‘pancake zoom’ from Lumix would be useful as a kit lens, and with that there should be room for yet another m.zuiko 14-42 🙂
To handle long and wide lenses, the evf should be a hybrid:
Optical, with a variable transparency evf film overlay.
For some range of lenses, overlaid display of lens coverage would work.
The camera could sense the lens that is attached and provide the appropriate overlay. For longer or wider lenses, transparency goes to zero and evf entirely drives the view finder. I am virtually certain that Epson has the technology to do this based on info linked to this site last year.
Then, include this hybrid EVF for the pro model of the OMD.
Perhaps, some fusion of the optical info in the viewfinder with the evf info could help provide the long awaited phase detect / contrast detect AF and we get all of the functionality in a single package!
The E-P5 needs (in my opinion):
– either inbuilt EVF or a locking high-res accessory EVF with eycup designed for human eyesockets
– electronic shutter option
– direct access exposure compensation button with +/- 5 EV
– rear thumb dial
– front index finger dial
– ergonomic design for adult human hands
– tripod screw mount in the body center
– magnesium case or at least frame would be nice – I hate squeaky plastic bodies
The EP-5 does not need:
– fart filters
– gps, wifi, bluetooth, apps and other non-photo crap (Make all that junk expensive add-ons that many consumers will gobble up)
– chatreuse and taupe body color options
LOL @ all these features the PEN “must have” in order for it to be worth buying. So many people posting that an EVF situated on the left side is a complete deal breaker when really it isn’t. In reality, people still bought the previous E-P cameras w/o it, and I can guarantee you people will still buy it if it didn’t have that feature. As far as the 5-axis IBIS, Olympus would have to do some serious electronics cramming since the PEN body is smaller than the OM-D since it has no EVF hump. Since we’re shooting for the stars and laying out all these features the PEN “must have” I might as well throw in
– high iso and DR better than a D4
– 36 MP or higher
– water proof/dust proof/drop proof/freeze proof
– 14 fps or faster than a 1Dx
– shoots 4K video
– displays 4K video
– Digital surround sound
– dual card slots…no, triple card slots
– Android OS
– plays mp3s
– solid state built in hard drive
– 4G LTE capable
These are all deal breakers for me, and Olympus will self destruct as a company if they are not able to incorporate such features. I personally won’t be buying this camera unless it has all of these!
Get a grip people.
Yes, and besides being able to play mp3s, it should be able to play also mp4s, mp5s, mp6s …
I’m sick and tired of all these clowns negating other people what they wish for. ”If you want evf get and EM5” ”an EVf would devalue my purchase”, before the EM5 was announced this site was full of trolls saying if we wanted an EVF we should get a GH2 or a VF-2 and be done with it. Then the EM5 was a huge success and pretty much silenced all the trolling. Well, to all of you clowns out there: Go F` yourself!
Seriously, if you’re worried your camera would devalue why don’t you just buy gold or oil stock, or Leicas. Cameras are made to take photographs (surprising isn’t it?), not to act as collectors item on a shelf.
I’ve been waiting since the release of the PL1 for a camera with left-corner EVF and I’ll be damned if any of your whining makes Olympus reconsider. You can list as many reasons for an EVF equipped pen would frustrate you but I can list many more reasons why it makes sense, to me, to many other costumers who passed on the EM5 and G/GH series, and more importantly, to the whole market (Sony and Fuji didn’t just invest in RF like bodies in a hunch).
Having a Pen with EVF won’t make your EM5 stop working nor will it make your photos any worse, It’ll only keep (many) users (heavily invested in lenses)from switching to Fuji or Sony and it’ll place Olympus in a undoubted and stable competitive position, and thus it’ll consolidate M4/3 as a even more versatile system, with all the lenses and body types you could ever want.
OM-D line will stay competitive don’t worry, they’ll probably take away the weather sealing and 5 axis IBIS from the new PEN, but more importantly they’ll upgrade the OM-D line with new features (video, full 43 functionality, probably even a new sensor) to differentiate it further from the E-P5, they could even add peaking via FW to the EM5 and limit the Pen I wouldn’t care, just give us the damn built in EVF!
I agree eith AMVR. RF styled PEN with built in EVF without weathersealing and 5 axis IBIS is definitely probable. Of course to not take away from OM-D sales, Im guessing it would be released after the Pro OM-D so widen the gap a bit.
As I understand it, most of the profit to be made is with the higher end models. It therefore makes sense for Olympus to have a budget model, this model, and a Pro model (EM5 Pro or whatever it will be called).
I reckon the GX2 will be similar to the NEX7. I was going to buy the GX2 but now I think I will wait to see what the EM5 Pro (or whatever it will be called) and the new PEN with EVF are like.
I doubt that sony is going to produce another sensor for olympus to further distance the omd from the pen line. Why would they? Im sure they want to ensure the nex line has an edge. The omd pro will be an incremental improvement, with better ergonomics, better menu layout and maybe a built in flash. it will be like the pen line, when each generation squeezed all it could out of the panny 12mp sensor..
Maybe because Sony is now the largest shareholder of Olympus!
Sony produces sensors for Pentax too. They will keep producing sensors for other manufacturers who compete with them. Why stop now that they started it? They might not hand the newest sensor over immediately, but maybe a few months or a year later.
I only want an E-P3 with the E-M5 sensor. I do really like the controls if the E-P3 better than those of the E -M5, so please Olympus, don’t change something that works; then I do already have the VF2, so I don’t really need an EVF.
I just forgot one thing : E-P5 like E-P3, same controls, with the E-M5 sensor and the E-Pl3 or E-Pl5 flip up LCD : I love that feature. For the VF, I already own the E-VF2 and I’m OK with it.
PS : why are my comments always subject to moderation ? It wasn’t so before ! The first one was and even that second one.
Watch Olympus create a PEN rangefinder-like camera, only due to size constraints, have an EVF not as good as the OM-D. All the same people here complaining about the left side EVF, will come back complaining about how the EVF sucks and that Olympus shouldn’t have put one in. lol
People will complain, no matter what. Period.
ummmm….what they said above ….and boy you folks have lots to say ..
a really emotional topic …..i want one too …ive beens an ep1 shgooter since 2009 and love3 my em5
but wheres my intigrated evf pen ?
If the E-P5 undergoes a heavy redesign, as has been hinted at, I hope that Oly design team learns from the problems of the O-MD: not space enough for dedicated buttons (see Fuji) therefore methinks only solution would be smaller 4:3 LCD.
If EVF is good, LCD will be mainly used for settings and some shutter focus. I find I chimp my shots with the EVF anyway.
They could draw some inspiration from the old 4/3 cameras, when LCD were smaller.
Some have a v. good button placement. Don’t waste that experience.
And since the E-P5 will also be a travel camera, and the hotshoe is free, and Toshiba cards allow Wi FI, why not allow for a GPS module the most useful of all when travelling?
Hope it won’t have the same E-P look nor current E-PL and E-PM look… Really don’t like them…
On the other hand, if it has the E-PL2 form with built-in EVF, 2 dials (or 1 dial + a control ring around lens mount), built-in flash, focus assist lamp, E-M5 sensor & 5-axis IS… and the price is good… then I’m sold!
I don’t think a new PEN needs ANYTHING other than an integrated viewfinder to compete with Fuji X and NEX.
The new PEN sensor has great image quality and Olympus features are really second to none. I enjoy shooting with my E-M5 more than my old X100 so Olympus should keep on doing what they are doing.
Hang on, they do needs focus peaking as mentioned by others. This is the one real advantage NEX has over Olympus for using legacy lenses.
To me it was a big mistake for Oly to revive the dSLR FF. If anything mirrorless needs distancing from it, and both Sony and Fuji understood it well.
I am not convinced either that 5 axis stab. is such a need. IBIS is enough to give an advantage over Sony and Fuji.
But you’ll see people flocking to the NEX-6 and the X-E1 despite they have less lenses.
Present Pens without a built in EVF cannot even start to respond.
If I understand it at all it’s a matter of Oly finding a way to drive the cost of the EVF down, after the success of the E-M5.n’t lo
I hope that explains the delay for the E-Px, but they shouldn’t lose any other time. Sony and Fuji are already selling their ‘Leica of the poor’.
Oly must know that the price of built-in EVF decreases with every sold unit – so there will not be a problem so far. Maybe they want really introduce something special? Admin maybe already knows…
I Would appreciate if E-P5 offers:
a) superior usability and
b) provide us a joy of taking a picture
What does it mean?
E-Px line is for experienced users which will prefer primes and HSG primes (around 4 cm thick and more) => at least 3 cm thick grip for better ballance with heavy primes and big grip makes space for high capacity battery. What else? Easy to navigate menus, 2 dials (i like NEX6 approach) and 2 Fn buttons. And of course a good EVF will be a pleasure.
Thats all I need to devote shooting… 🙂
My E-P3 wishlist
+ electronic shutter (silence, please)
+ some IBIS
+ decent integrated EVF
+ focus assist lamp
+ integrated flash
+ the E-M5 sensor
Nice to have, but not essential
+ 30 fps 1080p video
+ panorama function
+ 1/8000 sec
+ old style mechanical self timer
Not on the list:
– articulated screen
– touch screen operation
– art filters
– ISO 6400 (let alone 25600)
– focus peak
– pink, blue, red & green models
No tilting touchscreen, no buy. What E-P5 definetely needs (to my taste):
1. Two wheels from E-M5
2. the same IBIS
3. Tilting touchscreen.
People who need integrated EVF can easily find them in Panasonics.
The E-P3 already has two wheels : one is right under your thumb, at the top of the body and the other around the fourways controller. Personnally, I prefer the E-P3 controls to those of the E-M5 : I have more difficulties to reach the main wheel (aka back wheel) of the E-M5 than the one around the fourways controller of the E-P3.
Once again awaiting moderation ! What is going on ? What should I do to be able to comment normally, like I used to ?
1. Humans use their thumbs to hold things. Placing any wheel in top right corner (like on all E-Px’es and Gf2/G2/Gh2) makes the camera uncontrollable by one hand – once you move your thumb, camera tries to slip away. The second wheel (around four-ways controller) is also in wrong place – in the middle of the palm (where you don’t have fingers).
So the best place to put wheels on is top. Horizontally (like on E-M5) or vertically (like on Samsungs). Why all the reviewers like “ergonomics” of Samsungs do you think? Answer is simple – that handy wheel which is controlled NOT by thumb.
2. Well… E-P3 doesn’t have tilting touchscreen which is a MUST for street shooting. And sensor with IBIS would be welcomed addition as well.
“People who need integrated EVF can easily find them in Panasonics.”
But they dont find Oly’s colours and processing. Such little things that matter!
1. Connectivity (Full control from Android / iOS / Windows Phone / Windows) over WiFi with open API (Think of Applications for controlling the camera).
2. Internal intervalometer.
3. Bracketing Done Right (Able to shoot all photos in sequence after timer automatically).
4. EVF.
5. 5 Axis IBIS (With no noise).
I want:
(1)the E-M5 sensor
(2)180 degree rotating touching screen like panasonic GH3,not only 170 degree as E-M5
(3)And user can setup that NOT to electronically rotate the image when rotating the screen in order to use a specific lens with a upside down image.
(4)NO EVF to reduce the camera size and to be a additional buying accessory.
(5)the most important, 5-axis stability system.
(6)two-wheels to real-time control the brightness of ligt/dark part when taking picture.