Egami (translation here) spotted an Olympus patent describing a new on sensor phase detection tech. The idea is simple. With an addition of a second layer every single pixel can be used to enable phase detection AF. if it works we basically would have the best solution ever…even better than the Dual AF Pixel solution from the Canon 70D. But we all know there is usually a huge time gap between patents and real application on final mass products.
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In essence, how different is this from Canon’s approach?
And since when did Olympus started manufacturing sensors???
It is totally different. With this system you can do two things at the same time at every pixel: expose and take distance information. With Canon 70D sensor you have to alternate: AF, reset, exposure, reset, AF, reset…
Olympus has been making their own sensors for endoscopes. They have expertise in designing sensors.
One thing more: sensitivity. That, or lack of it, is the weak point of this system. Also this sensor would be expensive to fabricate compared to what Olympus has now. I would not expect to see this kind of sensor soon. Canon is also giving a lot of sensitivity away in their system compared to Olympus PDAF in E-M1. Also Olympus´ (and Fuji´s) present system could be relatively easily converted into cross type.
My, my!!!
This will be DISRUPTIVE!
If the manufacturer saves the distance information, you’ll have the immediate access to all the information needed to defocus at will and decrease DOF to Medium Format levels and BEYOND!!!
This tech has one natural target and that is Cellphones.
Sony will be stepping in soon!
Tech for Cellphones???
Anyway the is very good news to look Olympus, not think use ONE MPX!!! only for OSPDAF in future. 😉
“depth sensing” should be the next big thing of the next couple of years, but I think it will come on phones first.
I wonder if it can allow “relighting” or other post-processing.
Are you sure? Are you more of an exceptional artist or a tech genious? Or both?
Apple doesn’t manufacture processors too, but they are designing them.
Looked at the patent info (per link), and can’t say I have a good understanding of how it works.
However, seems that the dual layer measures phase difference on the basis of incident angle of focus on one layer vs. the other. There isn’t much of a difference but I suppose enough difference to compute the essential distance for the lens to travel to arrive at least near the correct focus.
Hard to know if this is in development or just an idea. We might find out in a year or so.
my interpretation is that the PDAF resides in the second layer only. In the sketch, you’ll find an acentric slit diaphragm (item no. 216 in the sketch) above the second layer, which in conjunction with the microlens (no. 240) would block the light path to that second layer for all but some peripheral light rays. Which exactly is how PDAF works. You have a row of of fotodiodes which are sensitive to peripheral rays from the left only, while the adjacent row us sensitive to peripheral rays from the right only. By matching their (usually displaced) images, you detect the focus difference.
OK, I see what you mean. Then the upper layer has the main photodiodes under the microlens, and the layer below gets some of the rays “sneaking” around the upper photodiodes, hence the slanty angle that the lower layer sees.
The only thing I’d wonder about is that the amount of light for PDAF would seem to be rather little. Perhaps this wouldn’t affect PDAF performance, and might it be better than current methods?
Good to see Olympus doesn’t rest on it’s own laurels and become stagnant.
The OMD em1 is a bigger upgrade than some would give Olympus credit for, perhaps because it’s of no use to them or doesn’t offer what they need and that’s fair enough but truth is they’ve done some special things lately.
To be honest most participating in the m43 consortium has made valuable contributions lately.
Olympus seems to be working out ways to improve it’s dual AF system now that it’s family of lenses have grown with 43 being very acceptable at af on the em1 while panasonic and fuji I’m assuming are working hard at merging their sensor ideas with colour splitting etc to produce gorgeous natural aesthetically pleasing colour images. Keeps getting better.
I agree, exciting times for mFT. The competition btween Olympus and Panasonic has been a very good thing now that Olympus moved on from Panasonic sensor, and their alliances with Sony and Fuji respectively have raised their advances to a whole new level. Loving it!
Yes it is a unique predicament to find when m43 is the only platform that has partners if we like to call them engaging in some healthy rivalry which seems to results in what seems to be a healthy outcome for the customer base.
I’m not worried, FF still rules…just….
No, large format rules. f/64 and be there.
Not worried, Full Frame still rules….just…
It seems to me that the weakness of all on-sensor PDAF schemes out at the moment is that they can only detect phase difference in one axis. So no equivalent of cross sensors.
Depending on how Oly configures the slit (I’m guessing that’s what item -216 is), it may be possible to get vertical and horizontal phase detection on a sensor for the first time.
I suppose an additional layer would do wonders for light reaching the photodiode…
A patent and now is better than70d hahahahaha what a joke
the patent Olympus are using for M1 right now is better than Canons implementation for low light
A layer for this, a layer for that, a layer for the other and a layer for luck on top of a layer to clean on, a layer for IR, a layer for AA, a layer for red a layer for green and a layer for blue, a layer for organic growth, a layer for weed killer and those deep deep tunnel layers. Makes a very thick sensor. It will need a tent out the back.
lol
Hey don’t forget the charcoal coated micro lenses and fossil fuel layers,
an eco friendly sensor indeed.
There’s no doubt they’ll keep improving OSPDAF with every new model. Good work by Oly.
Why oh why do FF Fanatics (FFF reminds me of KKK) bother to air their irrelevant and condescending comments here if they’re safe & secure in their belief that m4/3 will never match or equal FF IQ? Nobody, certainly not m4/3 users, says m4/3 IQ is equal to or beats FF IQ, yet FFFs seem so uneasy, insecure and constantly defensive on a hair-trigger about the imagined threat posed by the advancements of m4/3 technology. Even if m4/3 IQ manages to equal FF IQ, so what? There are physical differences such that a choice still has to be made, and it would boil down to the right application for the purpose in question – and the real question then is, whether to shoot FF, medium format, or just m4/3 if it achieves the job. So chill and just keep shooting what you have.
“certainly not m4/3 users, says m4/3 IQ is equal to or beats FF IQ, ”
I am afraid that some do indeed make all sorts of wondrous claims about the image quality of mFT compared to FF.Some of the FF “trolls ” are simply a/holes looking to stir up trouble, some though are simply responding to some of the wilder claims made about FF.You know the posts
FF is apparently heavier than the typical family car 🙂
mFT is as good as the D800/5DmkIII etc………….. 🙂
mFT lenses are all wonderful much better than FF junk 🙂
mFT is dominating the market despite what the actual sales
numbers really show. 🙂
Almost every pro shooter is turning to mFT 🙂
Equivalence is nonsense but only when comparing mFT to FF
if you are comparing the tiny itsy bitsy Nikon 1 system to
mFT the equivalence is spot on
I could go on and on but I think I have provide enough for the mFT defense league to get called into action
I have to admit, I already said:
– latest Olympus models have bigger dynamic range as Canon Fullframe models
– on low ISO-s they have better sharpness than Nikon D700
🙂
Ok! But where are the fun ones? You can’t just do the real ones its not fair to ‘THEM’ to rub it in so.
LOL spot on. We bad boys like to make a snappy comment when those funny claims turn up.
Trolls post just for the sake of posting.
They are not necessarily FF users, just trying to put the blame on them.