Let’s start this new week with some brand new HOT rumors. According to multiple(!) sources Olympus will launch a new entry level OMD camera in very early 2014, right before the CP+ show in Japan (Mid February). I don’t have a spec list yet but I suspect it will sue the same E-m1 sensor with no AA filter. And also the same EVF. It sounds like a small upgrade over the current [shoplink 29074]Olympus E-M5[/shoplink]. I hope the price will be also of “entry level” standard đ
You can find the [shoplink 42927 ebay]E-M5 for $699 (refurbished)[/shoplink] and [shoplink 42926 ebay]700 Euro (new on eBay)[/shoplink]. This could (or should) be the price of the new camera.
Also hot: Sources also pointed out that there will be new lenses (yes plural!).
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Rumors classification explained (FT= FourThirds):
FT1=1-20% chance the rumor is correct
FT2=21-40% chance the rumor is correct
FT3=41-60% chance the rumor is correct
FT4=61-80% chance the rumor is correct
FT5=81-99% chance the rumor is correct
158 Responses
Just what I have been waiting for if true.
Regards
So, why not just get an EM-5? Probably the best camera for the price now. Do you really think a budget model will be weathersealed? GH3 prices coming down as well, for those interested in video capabilities. This is a great time to be buying into m4/3…don’t see a reason to wait for a scaled-down version to show up sometime next year.
It’s likely going to be as “entry level” as the EM-5 is to the EM-1. After the EM-5 came out, all of it’s features were ported over to the “entry level” E-P5 (aside from the OVF). If they keep up the pattern, I’d expect all of the EM-1 features to be moved over to the smaller EM-6 body too.
In the worst case, even if it turns out to not be much of an upgrade, the EM-5 will likely drop in price at least $100.
Either way I’d say it’s worth the wait.
The E-P5 isn’t an entry level model. The E-Pm2 is, while the E-Pl5 occupies the middle ground.
not true. and prices are quite high: new, the E-M5 body still costs around 900 euros.
plus the new camera will have a newer sensor, so better image quality there. with E-M1 running at 1500 euro, the E-M6(?) might be just for guys like me (sub-1000 euro category…)
and weather sealing: no camera of mine failed because of water-damage. my cell is water-proof: never needed it once in 2 years (daily usage). but me is not everyone, of course.
i don’t want to start an argument, but fujis X-E2 comes at around 900, too. as a newcomer, i would go X-E2 before i would go E-M5 đ
In Finland you’ve been able to buy a new E-M5 body for 599,90 euros for some time. I don’t know if it’s only for a limited batch but it’s a pretty great price.
Thanks for the tip. I was considering buying this camera used, but the used prices are higher here in Belgium than the prices in Finland. Superkuva sells the EM5 for âŹ549. Is that a webshop one can trust? they appear to be willing to ship abroad to the EU at least.
superkuva.fi is generally ok, but one I know for sure is ok is verkkokauppa.com: OM-D E-M5 black body 599âŹ.
Seems that Verkkokauppa.com currently allows delivery addresses only in Finland, Sweden and Estonia. Not sure if any of the other Finnish webstores that have E-M5 on offer (Superkuva, Top Shot, Rajala) do any better in that regard.
ok, didn’t know that.
In France a new E-M5 can be had for âŹ750 to âŹ790, only high overhead non specialist stores like FNAC or Darty carry it with prices over âŹ800.
The “problem” is, that I want the E-M1 features in a E-M5 body. But on the other hand you are right, I was thinking hard about the E-M5. Sadly prices in Switzerland have not yet significantly dropped. And I would like to buy a E-M5 & 12-40 kit.
Regards
With that VF & sensor I would expect a price of $900.
Somebody mentioned new buttons….good call…that is a MUST!…no mush.
More grip would be nice too, or the ability to take on the old grip…but it would be nice if Oly sold the old grip in parts so that still-shooters could just buy the grip part without the battery compartment.
I don’t see this camera being set up for 4/3 lenses..that is what the $1400 M1 is for.
If the M1 sensor is used I see the PDAF being used in CAF…that’s all. Entry level…is entry level.
If it focuses 43 glass and is equal in ISO terms to the present low-light champion E-PM2, I personally will be very happy.
the new EVF sounds very compelling in such entry level OMD, but lets get prepared for the usual complainers who will prob find the price too close to the now dropped in price E-M5 đ
I’d be somewhat surprised if it indeed uses the ‘new’ EVF, or put differently, if it is going to do proper AF with 4/3 lenses, what will be the features that make it an ‘entry level OM-D’?
– weather sealing?
– AF performance (and now features)
– build quality?
– EVF?
– IBIS?
– controls?
– smaller body?
That is about where Olympus’ product differentiation between m4/3 cameras ends, so I suppose at least some of those will be of a lower standard then the E-M1.
I hope the AF for 4/3 lenses will be there, as it will finally give E-xxx users a valid upgrade path (except when you are called jankoff and are totally obsessed with irrelevant dxo differences), but that does mean some of the other things will go.
“obsessed with irrelevant dxo differences”
No reason to disbelieve DXo. My E-PM2, costing four times less, turns darkness into daylight with the Leica 25mm. I highly doubt that the E-M1 would be able to do it. A 25% lower ISO rating than the E-PM2!? That’s a shame for such an exorbitantly expensive product. Olympus ought to have found a better sensor – or tweak the old one.
“My E-PM2, costing four times less, turns darkness into daylight with the Leica 25mm. I highly doubt that the E-M1 would be able to do it. A 25% lower ISO rating than the E-PM2!?”
Go learn some math someday. The increase from E-M1 to E-PM2 is 23%, going the other way around is a decrease of 18%. Neither being the 25% you claim, and both being well within the range of which dxo says its meaningless. Its far less then 1/3 stop.
You aren’t just sprouting nonsense, since this has been pointed out to you repeatedly, you are by now deliberately misrepresenting things, and consequently a liar.
That still ignores the fact that you obviously have no bloody clue what the numbers mean either.
Yes, a quarter stop makes all the difference to you.
That means in dark conditions you would be able to use a shutter speed of 1/15 sec instead of 1/12 sec.
I’m sure that transforms your photography.
I think newer, even cheaper, models will have most of the time the most recent electronic parts(in the case of a new EVF, maybe the optical part is less impressive with less magnification). The low entry OMD will prob be a “light” version regarding to the mechanical components; housing & ibis(maybe they borrow the gx-7 for this? ;-))
It is also feasible that it is not dust- and splash-proof.
So the cost cut will be in the weather sealing and build quality, I guess. That’s good. Many people want to have the features of the E-M1 but don’t need such a rugged, fully metal, weather sealed body. The same basic camera with more plastic (cheaper, lighter) and non weather sealed will appeal many buyers if the price is $300 less.
However, that doesn’t sound very entry level… so we’ll see if the entry level definition for OM-D is more like a high-end PEN or what.
the statement on the lenses sounds very nice
Looking forward to see a 20-60mm f2,8-3,5 Pancake type that would fit the new to be announced PEN Lite E-PL7
That could be the real MICRO 4/3
Cheers
+1 for a 12-60 2.x-3.x !!
So it will not be an E-m1 with better video, maybe they can fix it with firmware update then?
Hoping for a 400 f4 mft lens.
+100 for 400 f4 (and a good 1.4x tc)
what are you guys going to do with that?
everything longer than 85mm i just don’t know what to do with…
What to do with more than 85? Ever hear of bird photography, car racing, long compressed portraits (200mm+)
look at small details from a long way away… see how much detail you get with a 300mm equiv lens when looking at the moon… you will be supprized, you need about 2400mm equiv to fill the frame with moon!
Isn’t a mirror telescope a better choice for the moon? I don’t shoot the moon very often, but it’s bright and bouket is not an issue?
Weird question… Attempting to use the 75-300 to take pictures of a local eagle, the bird looks like a dot. Also, the 75-300 has aperture 6.3 at 300mm, and isn’t exactly at focusing… A 400mm/f4 will even allow for a 1.4x teleconverter with decent AF.
Making a m43 400/4 is like downscaling a FF 800/4. Ok, the glass is smaller, but you still need exotic glass and all. Aberrations scale down with focal length, but the pixel density of m43 is just that much higher. So this would be a seriously expensive lens. Think 5k+.
Better keep if a bit shorter, lighter, cheaper. We’re not going to get more than one telephoto I bet.
Sounds good to me-I hope the physical controls are better than on the e-m5. If it got, dual dials+switch &two good reaching fn buttons, I m happy.
About seperation, I guess it will be lesser build quality, no weather seeling and only the pen ibis.
I hope they get the right pricing, shouldn’t be more expensive then the g6- which is a really good camera and well priced.
We’ll all be very surprised if the OM-D line enters at a price to compete with the G6 (and many popular DSLRs).
+10
I would assume it all compete with the G6. It’s the only real hole in the Oly M4/3 line-up at this point.
If so, will it compete in video against the G6?
I highly doubt it. It simply sounds like a E-M5 “Lite”
-No weather sealing
-3 Axis ibis
-No magnesium body
-$999.99
Would be a great *start* to competing in video if Olympus could simply implement 24p/25p/30p!
(50p/60p would be nice too, along with variable bit rates… ah, now I’m dreaming! But seriously, why not have three options in the video menu setting. A default setting which is marked as for Class 4 cards, a 2nd option which is marked in the menus as for standard Class 10 cards, and a 3rd “High Setting” which works with the current fastest cards out there commercially available. Then you will cut out the Average Joe complaining “my card doesn’t work!” but you’ll still have buried in the settings an option for those of us who take it more seriously and care about the best quality)
it was to be expected, first the new top dog pro for those who must have it and then the lesser version (which would have served 90% of the former group completely anyhow) and bring that to the masses to mop up those who just could not afford the first, and might just might be convinced to get the cheaper one instead…. and might leave the shop with the em1 in the end….
so predictable
“I suspect it will sue the same E-m1 sensor with no AA filter.”
And OSPDAF?
I suspect they will strip weather sealing to make it entry level.
please please please do 1080 60p like the rest of the competition… (Nex, fuji, panasonic etc)
If the E-M5 had 1080 25p + 50/60p no question – I would not be searching for the holy grail any longer!
I think that this next OM-D will be the same size as the E-M5 including its small right-hand grip.
Most certainly:
Wi-fi.
VF-4 EVF
No change in video specs (Olympus have only recently targeted video development)
Likely;
same sensor as E-M1 (Pens will also get this)
Improved buttons over E-M5 but layout cramped like E-M5
Greater resolution LCD over E-M5
Same weather-proofing as E-M5
Possible:
a change in kit lens offerings
Current high street price of E-M5:
Jessops/wexphotographic… ÂŁ949 w/ 12-50mm kit lens
hdewcameras: ÂŁ639 w/ 12-50mm kit lens
Sales of stand-along cameras are falling so I don’t expect Olympus to target a lower price than ÂŁ949 – they want to increase their average selling price to plug the hole of volume.
The E-M1 w/ 12-50mm is ÂŁ1500. The next E-Mx might be 20% cheaper: ÂŁ1200 leaving the E-P5 (with ECF & 14-42mm) at ÂŁ1000.
I want to continue my reasoning about the infelicity of E-M1 pretending to offer two worlds simultaneously. For FT glass Olympus should have made a DSLR with the new sensor and stabilization, plus another camera, smaller and lighter than the E-M1, only for mFT. The customers would have had a good choice – and there wasn’t going to be any problem with the need to adapt a sensor for both FT and mFT, losing some of its capacity. Sony made a similar mistake with the so-called translucent technology. A technology for losing light đ Where is the translucent technology now? Discontinued. Let’s hope Olympus will draw a lesson and will make a standard DSLR. And apart from being worse in the ISO parameter, the E-M1 is not going to be a commercial success, in spite of the vanity of some Olympus customers. I am glad I am not one of them. Did I do a good thing not buying the E-M5? I did. I will not buy the E-M1 and I will be better off with one or another of its successors. For good light and FT I have three Oly DSLRs, for low light I have the E-PM2. I am a happy man with common sense đ
So you have four camera bodies… and consider yourself sensible. OK.
“So you have four camera bodies”
Five. Why? Must I sell them? At funny prices at which I would rather buy them? They are good and I shoot a lot. They will be dead one day soon, one by one. I have 5 bodies and 12 (or more) lenses – and I want to have a body for each separate lens. It is a bore to change lenses. I feel 5 bodies is not enough – would like to have another one. I am serious. What is the problem? I bought 4 of the bodies at very low prices, only one second-hand, as new.
Bugger off until you get your basic math right, understand the numbers you are talking about, understand things like sample variation, and why the numbers you present show an irrelevant difference according to the exact source you got your numbers from.
Oh, and one other little detail…
“ony made a similar mistake with the so-called translucent technology. A technology for losing light ”
Yeah, guess what they are going to replace it with… you are an idiot, really.
Hey, yaa, get your attitude right! According to investigations in psychology, when one uses bad language at another, he/she suffers more than the one nominally abused. And in this case I do not suffer – I am amused.
He has a point – look at the EM1 compaired to the EM5 – select low light… you can see in the low reds and blues, it looks worse about 10% worse i’de say…
Having the PD pixels takes away from the imaging pixels. When using m43 lenses they don’t even use the PDAF data to aid in focusing. So using the m43 lenses you are totaly pissing away some of that lovely sensor quality.
Personaly I’de have been happy if they compramised for all other cameras outside the EM1 (I feel the EM1 had to offer very good compatibility and AF maximization for 43 lenses as those users have piled in a whole bucket of ÂŁÂŁÂŁÂŁ and need supporting well) and have just center spot PDAF. So still giving fast and usable AF with 43 lenses but also giving as much IQ as possible… center point focus is 95% (99%?) the most used… its fairly infrequent to use off center focus as most people just use focus lock/exposure lock so you can focus where you want and expose where you want.
Why you hatein’ on him so bad? fair point – the top camera will be beat by the EPM2 in low light… quite a major thing for a device that is designed to capture light.
“He has a point â look at the EM1 compaired to the EM5 â select low light⌠you can see in the low reds and blues, it looks worse about 10% worse iâde say⌔
Select ‘low light’ where? Owning both I can say there is a small difference indeed at high iso levels, through until you start looking at long exposures without NR, that difference is very hard to spot.
If you simply calculate the data-loss from PDAF pixels, you end up with 6.25%.
But that wasn’t what Jankoff is talking about, he is going on about the E-PM2 claiming a 25% LOSS in low-light performance compared to the E-PM2, and refering to dxo.
Now, what dxo says is that the E-PM2 they tested has a 23% better low-light iso then the E-M5 they tested. Now there are 2 things to note about this: a 23% improvement from E-M5 to E-PM2 isn’t the 25% Jankoff is talking about, but more important, when you go from E-PM2 to E-M5, its an 18% loss, so its not even close to what Jankoff is claiming.
Another thing to note is that dxo typically tests a single camera, and this doesn’t account for sample variation. +/-15% isn’t such an unusual sample variation.
So why am I ‘hating’ on Jankoff? Because he is misrepresenting things, which has been pointed out repeatedly by various people, after which he just moves on and reposts the same misrepresentations in the next thread.
Discussing the performance of various cameras is perfectly fine, misrepresenting things to make them better fit his argument however is not.
“When using m43 lenses they donât even use the PDAF data to aid in focusing. So using the m43 lenses you are totaly pissing away some of that lovely sensor quality.”
Uhm, yes they actually do get used, at least for continuous focus. They also add quite a bit of ‘value’ there, which they wouldn’t if it was really only the center spot.
But, it is only the center half of the frame approx anyway. If PDAF pixels were so badly eating your image quality, you’d expect this to not affect the left/right side of the frame as there are no PDAF focus points there, only the center area. Thats not what shows from the long exposure tests, and thats not what is being claimed, and not what you can see by careful inspection.
Oh, and your reasoning isn’t exactly complete, or correct for that matter.
– hybrid camera offers 4/3 users an upgrade path, dedicated 4/3 camera won’t.
– hybrid camera offers m4/3 users much better continuous focus and general AF improvements that are a direct consequence of the extra information available due to on-sensor phase detection.
The simple story is Olympus doesn’t have the resources to keep developing two different systems. So they -correctly I think- bet on mirrorless. Olympus’ camera division has been losing money for years now, they are simply drained.
for current EM5 users without 4/3 glasses could be tempting to have VF4 as EVF …so I hope they will keep EM5 body and put “new” senzor and EVF in it
So, is it the E-M5 successor or is it a model below the E-M5, without weather sealing and 5 axis IBIS?
What’s the betting it’s the E-M5 replacement? đ
When is the E-7 coming out?
The E-M1 is 99% useless for 99% of E-x owners.
Since there are only 100 of us who still have an E-1, E-3, or E-5, then only one is using the E-M1 now?
Unfortunately, I can’t see the E-M1 as a good choice for me, but maybe its replacement will be. However, looking at Olympus’ past moves, switching brands makes more sense.
Thats some quality argument there Anonymoose… suppose asking for actually substantiating your opinion is totally overrated eh?
Why? without trying either I would take the EM1 and some 43 glass over the E5 and 43 glass… any job any day! The IS, ISO, and camera speed more than make up for the small limmitation in AF area?
“New Olympus OMD entry level camera to be announced in January-February!”
Common people REJOICE! Finaly sth with VF for sensible money.
Arabic sites says the new camera is expected to carry the camera price about $700 , and there will be new lenses – maybe a new kit lens ?
As an E-M5 owner who’s not planning on swapping to E-M1 (having spent a fair bit of shop-time playing with one) as it’s too wide and the E-M5 grip gives me the choice of how ‘big’ the camera is; I’d like the following upgrades to convince me to buy a new body (with similar size and ability to use the same grip) – in order:
1 – upgraded EVF (as per E-M1)
2 – Wifi (remote control without Triggertrap dongle, the primary aim)
3 – 1/8000 shutter speed
4 – ISO 3fps (if it works)
7 – E-M1 sensor (sin AA filter)
8 – improved IBIS
Not fussed about:
1 – HDR (I’ll always do it in post-processing)
2 – non-RAW presets (jpg and art-functions)
[edit]
wants:
4 – ISO 3fps (if it works)
6 – better buttons – particularl 4-way controller
(not sure why site chose to truncate my comment ‘mid-way’)
this is getting frustrating:
4 – Focus tracking at greater than 3 fps (if it works)
5 – ISO less than 200.
….
9… 25fps video
JPG is fast to use so is important, HDR is kinda good and a tru usefull tool so again nice to have the camera do it… ok by hand might be better same with jpg conversion… but you can get perfictly good and usable results from OOC settings if done right. – only in extreams does RAW and manual HDR start to make sense.
So u want an em1 in the body of an em5 and the price of epl5?
Come on man, wake up -.-
will this be the 1st olympus m43 camera with support for 24/25p in video since they said video will be their top priority….
please admin try to get more bits about those lens. really looking for a new general zoom here, more luminous than 14-42 but also cheaper than 12-40.
Olympus will find going for mirrorless is a mistake. The short term success of M43 will only delay the time of returning to mainstream DSLR. Avoiding competition is like put head in the sand. Mirrorless world is full of competition. Sony is at full frame format and Fuji is in the APS-C. Olympus and panasonic are at M43 format. They all race for a small piece of cake and race for being cheaper in the end.
Sadly the end is the dead end.
What? Sigh… I don’t even know if this is FF or MrALLCRAP or whatelse. Trolls now can’t even write a proper paragraph…
Hahaha…very entertaining stuff! Happy Monday morning everyone – it’s going to be a great week!
Now that virtually ALL of the camera companies are jumping into the mirrorless world, apparently they just want to waste their funds and resources since mirrorless is going away – NOT!
About 13 years ago I was involved in a similar, and rather fierce argument. It was whether or not digital could ever replace film. Were you on the “film forever” side of the argument???
Sorry quangzizi, I meant my reply to be for Richard’s comments.
Ouch.
Somebody is hurt.
I didn’t know words can cut like a knife.
Oh well.
I will say this, if Canon were to make a G10/15 type Mirrorless camera, I’m O-U-T.
I’m actually waiting to see if there will be a Fuji-Panasonic FF alliance. Because even the rumored Xpro MkII sounds tempting.
Again, size and performance will play a big part. I think large FF cameras for the most part will be done soon. A Canon 6D In a G series styled body would be killer.
Sony is wise to this, but I think the limitation of lenses will limit their market share, but for the moment will hurt MFT sales.
“I will say this, if Canon were to make a G10/15 type Mirrorless camera, Iâm O-U-T.”
Can’t wait for it to happen.
“Iâm actually waiting to see if there will be a Fuji-Panasonic FF alliance. Because even the rumored Xpro MkII sounds tempting.”
There is always a new, better and even more shiny toy just over the horizon.
“Again, size and performance will play a big part. I think large FF cameras for the most part will be done soon. A Canon 6D In a G series styled body would be killer”
Lol, size and performance are key, well too bad real-world cameras always involve a size/performance compromise, and while you can have a ‘full frame’ sensor in a G12 sized body, your lenses will remain big (or you’ll end up with rather bad performance again), there is some pretty basic laws of physics making sure of that. Add progress of technology and check some 1 1/2 century of photography history, and you’ll see the future is always heading for smaller instead of bigger formats. Has been the case since the first photograph, and there is absolutely no reason why that would all of a sudden get reversed.
Your previous posts destroy your reps. Seeing that you have changed the tone, please accept my apologies for generalization.
Oh sure! We all want to return to lugging a big heavy DSLR around again, NOT!
Not sure what the point would be in yet another model. Other than Japan – which is a tiny market compared with the rest of the world, the m4/3 format is floundering. They don’t even have a market presence in a single big-box retailer in the U.S. Say what you will about big chain stores, but they still account for a majority of retail sales, and the fact that they won’t even bother to touch m4/3 products is quite telling.
@doug nash
The USA is just 16% of the world camera market and is forecast to continue decreasing, it also has higher marketing and distribution costs and lower margins. Many of the single big-box retailers in the U.S. sound like they are in financial trouble.
16% of global sales is a massive number, and it’s actually higher than that when you compute Internet transactions.
There are a few retail chains (Best Buy being the most notable) which are indeed, in poor shape. But the majority of true “big box” retail giants (Target, Walmart, even Costco, to name a few) are doing better than ever. You might not associate those with photography, but they all sell more cameras and camera equipment than all the small “real” photo chains, combined. No, they don’t sell high-end pro grade gear, but that only accounts for a small fraction of total camera sales.
In the end, m4/3 is just too hard a sell for the general public. Plus, it’s all far too expensive. Even myself, as an experienced photographer. I have a very hard time seeing myself putting money into such an expensive and small system. For instance, I’m looking to add a new small camera for travel and leisure. While a few of the m4/3 options are intriguing, even the best there currently is (E-M1) won’t out-perform a near-entry Canon SL1 (100D). I can buy an SL1 and the great Canon 40mm lens, for a very small travel cam, for HALF what I would spend on just the Oly body. Plus, I can take that 40mm lens and drop it right on my MKIII body. Now, THAT is a system.
E-m1 won’t out perform canon entry level DSLR? In what way? I guess price only.
Price, of course.
But IQ, performance and handling.
If you compare images from the E-M1 and SL1 (for instance) you’ll obviously see that they’re entirely close, with each displaying various strengths and weaknesses as the conditions and ISO shift. Point being, no clear advantage to the much more expensive “pro” Olympus. But the small Oly sensor will never give the same level of shallow DOF that an APS-C sensor will provide. Just as the cropped body will never compete with a FF.
Handling: While the Oly has a nice set of direct controls, the cheaper SL1 has just as many, plus they’re just enough larger to make them easier to actuate for those of us with larger than average hands.
Speed: The EM1 is the fastest m4/3 to date. But it’s not any faster or more accurate to AF than the SL1, and while the Oly manages up to 10fps, that’s one of the features I don’t even exploit in my pro DSLR models. Plus, the optical viewfinder in the cheaper Canon, will always be more useful in continuous shooting, than the EVF of the Oly.
Battery: The SL1 will FAR outlast the totally electronic Olympus.
Lenses: The only advantage the m4/3 line has is that the lenses are smaller. But they lose that advantage when you start to use the larger zoom ranges or “pro” models. The tradeoff is that with Canon, you have access to the second largest selection of lenses in the world. Plus, as I mentioned, I can run the identical glass on the small “travel” SL1, then drop them on my MKIII. With m4/3, I’ll never have anything other than small lenses for small-sensored cameras.
Af is not more accurate?
Did u know that on sensor contrast af has no front/back focus problems and it is also more accurate than phase detection?
Come on man, dont be a such fan boy.
U prefere Canon? Allright.
U prefere it so it is the best for everyone? Nope
Just in case you don’t trust me and are too lazy to use CameraSize : http://j.mp/1jgYsIL
Sorry, it’s for doug nash.
DoF “advantage”, depending on what you shoot and the generation of photographer you belong to, it is small sensors that may offer the real advantage, it’s a question of photographic culture and adequation to needs rather than an objective advantage.
Handling, well, that’s a personal choice, for the kind of work I’d use a E-M1 for, I’d take the deep grip of an E-M1 over the SL1’s.
Speed, regarding the AF depending on context and lens used, the E-M1 might have an edge, but then again, in other contexts, the SL1 clearly wins.
As for the advantages of OVF over EVF, well, what puts it at a disadvantage in continuous drive, actually put it ahead of any OVF in other tricky situations, it really is a matter of what you shoot and personal preferences, neither is truly better than the other.
Battery longevity, barely true in theory, the SL1 is CIPA rated for 380 shots, the E-M1 for 350.
Might well be true in practice, yet the E-M5 is rated 370 and the GX1 310, but while I can go a whole day of casual shooting with the E-M5, the GX1, without even an EVF, runs out of juice half-way, so I wouldn’t trust CIPA ratings much, it could go either way unless you have a head-to-head comparison of the two.
Lenses, sorry, I’m having quite a laugh here, try comparing an E-M1 + 75-300 or 100-300 vs a SL1 with Canon 100-400… Or an E-M1 with a 12-35 (or even 12-40) 2.8 versus a SL1 with a 17-55 2.8… There is a huge difference in size and weight, in fact the E-M1 + 100-300 is about the same size and weight (give or take 50g in favour of the E-M1) as the SL1 + 17-55.
Size advantage goes away with large aperture and tele zooms, really ? Check again…
Yes, m4/3 is not the end all, be all of modern photography.
Yes, it might end up changing radically or disappearing entirely along the way.
Still, there’s no reason to belittle it using arguments so blatantly out of touch with cold hard facts.
Indeed, the ultra shallow DoF you experience with FF works *against* what a documentary filmmaker needs and the greater depth of m4/3 is more usable.
Isn’t just documentaries either, other users such as wedding photographers. If you’re taking a picture of say a bride and groom at the altar are they both going to be perfectly in the plane of focus? Of course not, so rather than shooting wide open you’ll be stopping down, so by that point you might as well be using m4/3! (and your back will be thanking you for it by the end of the day!)
The DOF advantage of APS-C over MFT is barely a third of a stop. Big deal.
@doug nash
That’s 16% of sales either units or value ( that would include internet sales except grey imports), maybe the USA produces even less profit camera wise because it’s citzens buy smaller margin cameras.
I understand a few years ago the USA was about 33-35% so that’s quite a decrease.
Commenting from UK experience when I see cameras(and other similar electrical goods) on shelves of supermarkets ad similar type of stores they are usually gathering dust whether they are p&s, bridge, mirrorless or DSLR cameras, so it’s my belief that they have a much lower low rate of turn/sales than more specialist type of retailers both online and bricks and mortar.
> “While a few of the m4/3 options are intriguing, even the best there currently is (E-M1) wonât out-perform a near-entry Canon SL1 (100D).”
Not as how *I* see it, for video a Panasonic GH series beats *ALL* the Canonn DSLRs! (yes, even arguably the 5D series. The EOS-1D C is in its whole on class though, of stupendously overpriced stupid waste of money class)
Sure you’re right… I wonder why B&H and Adorama are always packed…. Maybe everyone there are just window shopping?
If you’re going to be snarky, you should at least attempt to understand the points being made. For every one person who buys a product from one of the Manhattan retailers, you’re going to have thousands buying from large retailers and the web.
Agreed. But my point is, he’s basically trying to blame camera sale declines the reason for Bog Box retailer declines in sales. Typical Fanboy spin. A BB like Best Buy may have declines in sales, but what’s to say that B&H had a increase in sales in the same timeframe??
Stop telling a part of the truth. The U.S. Is in third place, under Europe, which is Also declining at a rapid rate. Asia is the total opposite, which is rapidly increasing. Even still, MFT is hurting and Fuji and Sony is biting into their market share. It’s only a matter of time before Sony gobbles up Olympus. And if Sony doesn’t think MFT isn’t profitable or a threat, say goodbye to the Pen and OMD.
Hmm, Sony has what? A 10% share.
Sony isn’t doing overly well financially,
Sony has some not so good experience going down that route already.
Nope, if anything will kill off the imaging division its going to be Olympus shareholders (including Sony)
Mirrorless dead that’s funny – the older generation with the big cameras in a few years will look ridicules carry all that weight while the person beside them has smaller ,better and faster camera and lens
Looks like em1 is bigger than FF Sony a7.
http://camerasize.com/compare/#482,488
Now stick a nice little portrait lens on both and check again.
I like the A7 and will likely buy one next year as a complement to my OMD but let’s face the reality: the A7 is only going to match the OMD in size only with the 35mm f2.8 prime. All other lenses are damn huge compared to m43 options. The 55mm f1.8 – what is its filter diameter and how long is it? No comparison to the 25mm Summilux.
And that’s even before we get to the fast zooms and telephoto lengths!
Every system has its strengths and advantages. Live with it.
Exactly. Intending to do the same thing, through mostly for use with legacy lenses.
It would be great if Olympus would implement ISO 50 and 100 modes that are competitive with ISO 200 and 400 respectively on full frame.
Micro four thirds is a fantastic system, but it is as if you have a camera that cannot go lower than ISO 800.
Yes I do not like it too. But I guess this is not going to change. In future we will rather see another increase in Mpix count with maybe a slight DR increase (which means a bit lower noise). But still I would be excited if anybody could bring back the new 12Mpix sensor.
+100
A 12Mpix (or even 6-8Mpix) with the *current* technology would be great!
Oly, please provide focus peaking to the E-M5!
I would also like to know if it has OSPDAF, I was under the impression this was a PRO only bonus and would not make it down to lower models.
Olympus usually puts the same sensor in all bodies of the same generation. Maybe they’ll disable OSPDAF in software…
That isn’t what Olympus said, what they said is that there are no plans yet to implement OSPDAF on low-end cameras.
Note: no plan yet, that isn’t saying its not going to happen, its saying they haven’t planned on if it will happen or not
Note: low-end cameras, that could be the E-PLx models exclusively, it could be all PENS, it could be all < $800 introduction price cameras, it could mean everything below the flag-ship camera. It does not say however that it is a 'pro only bonus'.
So.. based on their past statements one cannot draw the conclusion you did, one can at best say there is no guarantee that it will or won't be there.
Fully articulated screen
Easily accessible remote cable socket
50ISO
Extremely lightweight 300mm f/5.6 lens
Or 25ISO even! đ
It might be the E-M1 Mark II, with more video oriented features. Olympus said recently their next goal is a strong video implementation. Maybe E-M1 Mark II…or E-M1V?
Maybe, but announcing a follow-up after 6 months sounds bloody unlikely.
Two things are needed
4/3 compatibality.
4/3 lenses AF on video
AND THAT’S IT !!!
I still don’t understand why i need to pay a 1,400 $ fine just in order to use my HG lense.
I have 12-60 and 50-200 SWD using E520 .
The lenses makes the difference that’s why I bought expensive zuiko lenses and a cheap body ( even at the time ) why Olympus doesn’t use it’s advantage – Excellent lenses !!! ???
Just proves my point of Olympus milking the hype of the OMD.
-OMD (EM5)
-OMD DSLR (E-M1)
-OMD ZOOM (stylus)
-OMD ENTRY LEVEL (this rumored camera)
Give me a break. They Milk sensors, now this. It’s like they’re not even trying, and the Fanboys won’t complain.
Wow.
Do they put a gun to your head and tell you to buy each new released camera? It’s really good for new people joining m43 or people upgrading from first gen. m43. The bigger choice, the better.
You make it sound almost like Apple and iEverything…
Somehow, trying to make as much money as you can from things you thought up seems to be what doing business is about.
Apple also has
-MacBook
-Apple TV
-AirPort
-MacPro
Olympus has Pen And OMD
The Pen series isn’t selling, hasn’t been, and only the E-M5 has done well recently.
We will see more “OMD” labeled cameras from Olympus, until it’s over saturated. Watch.
And Stylus and Tough and a whole bunch of medical products.
I also predict we’ll see more iSomethings…
I’m sure you’re correct, as we’ll see more Olympus OMD bodies in all sizes… Unless Sony buys them out.
The Stylus is not an OM-D. It only kind of looks like one. The people who buy a stylus want something “better” than a point and shoot, but don’t have to think much about it….
I think, pro-level (E-M1), mid-level (E-M5) and entry-level (E-M10?) is just right.
I should add, I don’t think you need three Pen cameras. You only need an entry-level and a mid-level (E-P5). I don’t think people who are buying Pens are expecting freeze-proof, weather-proof or 43 lens compatibility.
What’s wrong with that? Canon and Nikon do the same! Canon for example has an EOS range, comparable to the OMD range because while Olympus has PEN, Canon has the EOS-M. Within the EOS range Canon currently has the following models:
1. EOS 100D
2. EOS 1000D
3. EOS 700D
4. EOS 70D
5. EOS 7D
Before you protest, this is EXACTLY like the OMD strategy because, guess what, ALL these EOS cameras have the SAME mount – EF-S! And then Canon offers the full frame EF mount range, in which you can find not one, but three further models!
So what’s wrong if Oly comes out with 4 different OMD models, when Canon already has EIGHT?
You’re completely forgetting Canon’s EOS cinema range, which is another 3 more cameras! C100/C300/C500, which also all use the EF mount.
So yes, Olympus has nowhere near Canon’s range of model numbers just yet. So I reckon it is fair enough to see a few more different Olympus models!
It won´t have the same sensor as the EM-1. It won´t have the same EVF.
Reasons are obvious.
I would say, for $700 you will get the EM1 sensor but:
– 1,4M EVF from the E-M5
– no WS body (maybe more plastic?)
– “only” 1/4000 shutter speed (becomes a standard in OMD line)
– basic IBIS?
– without a touch shutter capability?
The real E-M5 successor will arrive later with new tech so it is possible that entry OMD will get better specs. The main question is differentiation between the E-M5 and E-M1 models in future.
EM-1 sensor means PDAF and FT compatibility. Oly said that they have no plans to use that tech in lower end products.
I thought it said lower PEN models
My guess, the new entry level OMD will be whatever the E-M5 is but stripped down. I am assuming the E-M5 is higher in spec than “entry level”. Even the EP-5 will be higher in spec than “entry level” OMD. OMD has EVF internally, where as PEN series does not.
Hmm, if itâs entry level, itâs probably going to be a Canon Rebel type camera. Itâs probably not a bad idea. Basically, make an E-M5 with a plastic body, no weather sealing, and make it around $750 with a kit lens, they may have a winner on their hands. Thereâs probably no reason they couldnât keep similar technology of the E-M5 in a cheaper package. And, they need to add a built-in flash. (I hope they donât make that mistake)
To use Canon as an example, itâs my guess that most people buy a 70D or 6D because they probably started with a Rebel, and wanted more. If Olympus does this right, they may get their cameras into more peopleâs hands, and make them want to upgrade down the road. The thing that has been keeping them from succeeding, in my opinion, is the lack of a cheaper full-featured option. And by full-featured, I mean a dslr-like camera with a viewfinder.
As a side note, the biggest mistake Olympus has made with the Pen line, in my opinion, is the lack of a viewfinder. I think people associate âbetterâ cameras with a viewfinder. Sure, the VF-4 is nice and all, but the masses will not want to bother with an (not so cheap) add-on viewfinder. I know I donât, and I know a lot more about cameras than most people. I love the E-P5; the handling and looks are superb, but the lack of viewfinder was a deal-breaker for me. Nobody wants to spend so much on an ILC that you have to hold out in front of you, especially if it has a zoom lens on it. The Pens will never be taken seriously until this happens.
That being said, a Rebel-type OM-D may be just the thing to start to get m43 on the map. Sadly, Panasonicâs problem is their name. The masses do not associate Panasonic and high-end cameras.
I’m not expecting anything unique for E-M6. Again and again it’s going to have cripled buttons and handling. So for a normal man – useless stuff. For unique cretures a camera to praise. I do not understand it but that’s how it is.
I like Olympus for their jpeg colors. But they seem to be stucked. On the other side Panasonic started listening to their customers + jpeg engine is better with an every new model …
The rumor is that the camera is going to be the entry level camera. So it will be below the E-M5. So look at the just announced Stylist 1 camera for clues to what the camera will be like.
Expect the true E-M5 replacement to be announced before Photokina.
That is an intreting post. Saying that Olympus will have 3 OM-D Models in the future. The E-M1 ; E-M5; E-ML1 new entry levelModel.
I really really hope that will not be true. I am waiting one Year now for the E-M5 successor. And I think 3 years is a pretty long productliftimecycle. Furthermore the Profit margin can be made with the more expensive models. For Entry Level there is already a huge variety with new and old E-P; E-Pl & E-PM. I don´t think Oly wants to Compete with the G6.
Anybody with me that there will not be a new entrylevel Product Line?
When the E-M5 was released during an interview an Olympus executive stated that The OMD is a series name with the E-M5 being the mid line in the series.
A two year cycle is about right for the E-M5. The tech is not changing this quickly. So we should see the updated E-M5 around mid year.
If it is truely entry level a stripped down em5 with maybe the newer sensor makes sense, using ospdaf makes sense also because the early adaptors must have do not mind what it costs already have ordered a em1, heck I had to restrain myself not to do it also. It would help to keep the 43 dslr audience switching brands for a part I guess. Is still expect the omd em6 to use the same ospdaf sensor. Again makes sense marketing wise, entry level for those who can not afford the em1 and those who need the features will wait for em1 cash or em6. In the end we are all more or less gear junkies and marketing knows that….
I really hope this is the sequel to EM5 and not a truly lower end camera.
If it’s a cheap built low end camera without weather sealing then it’s not for me. I’m hoping for an updated EM5 model with some of good things of the EM1 except smaller and no 4/3 lens support, only M43 lenses.
Good idea to have an entry level model in the OMD range. Then we would have:
1. Entry level (E-Mx)
2. Mid-range (E-M5)
3. Enthusiast/Pro (E-M1)
I think they should then position the PEN series lower, so that we’d get:
1. Entry level (Pen Mini)
2. Mid-range (Pen Lite)
3. Enthusiast (E-PM)
with the price of the E-PM being the same as the entry level E-Mx. So a better spread of models for different budget points.
This is a bad Idea. The entry consumer will get confused with more models.
Furthermore Olypus is not having enough Volume in Sales to promote ande be cost eficent producing their ever growing product line. Its like VW and BMW. VW has a Car for every niche because it has the Volume, BMW doesn´t. For this reason Olympus shouldn´t have the same number of models Canikon has.
please finally the EM-5 successor!
What do you mean BMW doesn’t? Both BMW and Mercedes now have models competing directly with mainstream Japanese cars. 100 Series, 200 Series… and then they have the 300, 500, 600 and 700. All of them target different niches.
Having a three-tiered model has been standard not only among camera makers, but hi-fi manufacturers, too. Even Apple has this strategy: each of their product category (iPhone, iPad, Macbook Air, Macbook) has entry level, mid range and advanced configurations.
It seems that Olympus gained some traction with it’s OM-D, more so than the Pen series, so they may choose to have 3-tier models in E-M series. Though, the Pen’s are really nice, they need to simply that series with just 1 model with excellent range finder styling. Olympus as a brand needs to do so much more for servicing and customer support, at least in USA by my experience.
I think it makes sense for Olympus to have just 2 models in the PEN range: cheap, entry level Pen Mini (LCD only), and sub-$800 advanced Pen (with built-in viewfinder, like the GX7). Entry level should be simple, small & light, to cater to the P&S crowd. The advanced model would cater to the same rangefinder people who are still in love with the GF1 (forcing Panasonic to come out with the GX series). I don’t see many Pen Lite users – most people I see carrying Olympus Pens gravitate either to the Mini or E-PM. Maybe the Pen Lite should just be a fixed compact zoom, like the Stylus.
Would be logical fit to have an E-M9.
This is not progress.
If they want to make a more affordable option, just drop the E-M5 price, and focus on developing new better products.
Reason would have it, like Berneck mentioned, that a stripped down OM-D, whould have a plastic body, and perhaps a VF-2 type. However plastic means reduced heat dispersion, so it would have also the old type of shutter and perhaps restrictions on video.
They also need a white camera: today I saw a Jap. couple, and she had one encased in natural leather, bot were dressing v. well, almost in hipster style. As an old geezer I should not care, but I care about Oly profits and they are made in Asia. I think it was an E-PL6.
Seeing what Kai has done in the recent comparison, Panny did a home run with the GX-7, so again Oly needs to counter with a Pen with EVF. The E-P5 which has everything to please a hipster was wasted.
IMHO they should put all their energies in a 700-800 $ camera to make inroads in the APS crowd. For high value added they have the E-M1, which IMHO is already too high, considering the A7
To counter it they should insist more on the RF concept a’ la GX7. Unfortunately Oly always made the sin of pride of wanting to imitate the dSLR upper tier. So they will persevere with the OM-D.
Other interesting question: will they do a FF35 mirrorless before the end of 2014?
Thar is clearly what attracts the headless chicken American market, so they might as well.
I am getting old and cynical, I will keep my E-M5, and perhaps wait for the smallish RF fro the Panny Patent, who knows, perhaps with a Leica badge, and the new 15mm.
By a entry leve OM-D is it a updated E-M5 with no weather sealing basically? Or will it feat less controls? Because if you think about the E-P5 price and this is supposed to have EVF, how can this be cheaper than the E-P5? In theory this should go head-to-head the the GX7, right? Or will Olympus drop the E-P5 price or even the E-P_ as a whole?
fuji xe2 way better
well, without the actual NEX-7 successor released it’s a bit hard to say that but unless the NEX-7 comes with a roadmap announcement as well, anybody wanting something in this level should really buy a E-X2, even more with the focusing speed improvements – and the certainty of having more and more firmware updates that will the camera even better a year or two from now.
Sounds borng. Honestly, if I see anothe OM-D-like design, I’m gonna vomit.
We should presume you have been vomiting every day for the past few years? Because since when did Canon and Nikon change _their_ camera designs? They keep coming out with the same looking camera over and over. Poor you.
Most probably the new OMD will have:
– wifi
– color creator
– the enhanced ibis as in em1
– low iso (aka iso 100)
– 1/8000 shutterspeed
Not so sure about weatherseal and PDAF capability.. If it has weatherseal, then what would be difference with E-m1?
Please NOT the E-M1 sensor, we don’t want the same hot pixel issues with long exposure the E-M1 has.
+1 for that comment, finally some sense.
Leave the hot pixel noise ridden sensor for the Four Thirds people and their phase detect oversized glass. Give us another dedicated Micro Four Thirds sensor which can do E-M5 standard star trails.
Talking about making sense…
What do you think is a more common use for an ‘entry level’ OM-D… People trying to shoot pictures of their kids and pets running around, or people shooting startrails..
So.. do you think that typically for a consumer camera being able to shoot startrails is more important then being able to do good continuous focus and tracking?
What are you on about, the E-M1 has superior nosie performance to your E-M5. Go check out Robin Wongs blog or the many other people comparing the high ISO of the E-M1. You must be blind!
OK Mr Clever pants, well google “E-M1 long exposure noise” and see what comes up, it’s not as good as the E-M5.
Or just take a look at this site which has examples – http://www.seldomscenephotography.com/2013/11/14/the-olympus-e-m1-and-long-exposures/
Does it have also more noise in general? I found it interesting that Sony avoided PDAF on sensor for the A7R.
In fact the tradeoff seems to be faster autofocus to the expense of better resolution.
One had better know before the introduction of the next OM-D. If one has no or little 4/3 lenses the advantage in AF might no be worth it, if one is a Landscape photog., or other more static tasks.
I would be very surprised if the entry level model has the same E-VF as the E-M1. Usually entry level models have smaller VF than the high end models.
Happy with my PL5, does everything I want for half the cost.