A Japanese magazine is speculating about a soon to be released new PEN camera with integrated viewfinder. Well it’s possible this will happen and Olympus certainly needs to create some buzz on the PEN system after the OMD system did “steal the show”.
As you know for the latest Olympus financial reports (Click here) PEN sales were lower as expected and they need to clear the confusing PEN strategy. E-Pl, E-PM, E-P, are three small different PEN lines really necessary?
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168 Responses
GX7 has a much more cleaner, minimalistic hence a much more elegant design. But I should admit that it’s entrirely a matter of taste.
Most definitely a matter of taste. ‘elegant’ is the last thing I would label the GX-7 with.
Well, I think the design is photoshop, not the final design it will have IF it really comes.
Thanks for your admittance that design is a matter of taste, now the obvious became clear to me.
Sorry, this GX7 is an Panasonic 😛
LOL 😀
The GX7 is one butt ugly camera
Just like you.
+10!
I much prefer clean, strong lines to fussy, “retro” details . The GX7 is understated and modern.
Too bad they started putting “PEN” on the front plate. I’d like to see Panasonic lose the tacky “L” from the front, too. Luckily, there’s electrical tape to obscure such things!
+1
What DOES that “tacky L” denote anyway?
“Luscious”
Lumix, therefore entirely redundant.
No, The GX7 is just boxy and fat.
GTFO ugly GX7
You must be an Olympus owner.
The Un-Called for Panasonic hatred continues here at Four Thirds Rumors…. Sad.
MrAllCaps discovers “Panasonic hatred” in a thread that started by claiming that an illustration of a hypothetical new PEN was ugly. Well done.
Or maybe he is trying to stir things between the users of both brands and some idiots always fall for it.
Don’t cry because someone doesn’t worship at the altar for Panasonic’s body designs.
From my perspective:
G/GH = Canikon wannabe
GX = Boxy Boxy Boxy
GF = Either boxy or beat on the head with an ugly bump (ala GF3, man that is an ugly body)
GM = Nice
I don’t like the look of the grip on the GX7. Its top doesn’t fit well with the top plate. The E-P5 has a clean look IMO. at least the front. My all time favorite camera design is a black Leica M6. But it was not so easy to grip when you had a heavy lens on it (like the Sumicron 90mm F2). Nothing can beat German rationalism 🙂
Have you tried one? The little grip does detract a little from the rangefinder boxy lines, but not much. And it is surprisingly ergonomic, even with larger lenses, where the EP5 is not comfortable. But I’m with you on that Leica aesthetic. Nothing beats it. My favorite is the M3.
If you want a grip to look stylish, instead of ergonomic and stable, then stick with Olympus.
Some photographers prefer a beefy grip over style. After all, the end result is the picture, not how clean the camera looks.
IQ and ergonomics rule, but fun factor, system ecology and even camera aesthetics do matter to some people a whole lot. I used to only consider IQ and lens lineup, along with specs, and shot Canons. But more and more, I want that fun factor. Having owned (and sold) a Sony NEX7 and lenses that I truly despised using, in spite of nice size and great IQ, having fun with your camera really does matter, probably more to enthusiasts than pros, but more and more pros are demanding style and fun factor too. Zack Arias and David Hobby come to mind, most obviously, but so do Guilio Sciorio and Frederick Van Johnson.
Exactly. A stylish, good looking camera makes it more desirable and makes you want to use it more.
This applies to everything we buy from kitchen appliances to cars.
And lets be honest here, there’s no bad cameras once you get out of the budget ranges.
So why not have a good looking one.
But, ergonomics, as well as style, cn be a huge matter of taste. I decided to try the cool-aid and got a Fuji X100. I really do not find this a fun camera at all. Of all modern cameras I have tried or used recently (Oly, Panny, Sony RX100, Nikons) it was 100% the worst feeling for me to use: just no competition. Even though it does have some really nice features.
“If you want a grip to look stylish, instead of ergonomic and stable, then stick with Olympus.”
I think the E-M1 is one of the uglier m-43 cameras: not nearly as nice looking as the GX7, pens, or other om-ds. But in terms of features, and fit in hand, it is by the far the best feeling for me.
I love the GX7 look too. Now, if they’d only remove the front branding and put in discreetly on the top plate instead. And lose the “L” on the front. And weather seal it.
design is debatable – I very clearly prefer EP5 over GX7.
both models are not doing well sales wise – I don’t think the lack or presence of the viewfinder is the key issue.
The GX7 is overpriced, but it looks acceptable thanks to the EP5 which is even more overpriced.
There is better value and/or functionality to be had, even staying within the same brand – I think ultimately that’s what hurts both camera’s sales.
The addition of a viewfinder is not going to turn the EP5 into a huge success – especially not if it’s not as good as EVF4, makes the camera more expensive and hurt its design, and causes the flash to disappear.
My intuition says we’ll see all four of those combined, at which point sales could be disastrous. Which in turn Oly would interpret as a final sign that PEN and EVF don’t go well together.
If only they could bring out a camera made for success – uncompromising quality at a competitive price point – they’d have a winner.
I agree, I’m also not a fan of the design of the gx7. But that being said, both have a difficult position now with the e-m10 for such a good price.
Personally I can’t get used to cameras where the viewfinder is not in the middle on the axis of the lens. So it’s not really interesting to me.
I agree with you.
Grey/black, EP5 look better.
All black, GX7 look better.
GX-7 only is half a year old and coming into the EM-1, it was arguably the best m43 body. Overpriced? Seriously?
I agree with your statements about the GX7. I like it’s looks too, but what a bad-ass camera it is. Awesome performer.
I do, however, question Panasonic’s marketing decision NOT to sell the black version here in the U.S. What genius came up with that stupidity? M4/3 manufacturers decry their lack of penetration into the U.S. market and then limit our buying of their products.
BTW, Ford vs Chevy waged a 75 year marketing battle based upon little more than “beauty is in the eye of the beholder” and primitive fanboyism.
That was an idiotic decision.
The same with limiting GM1 colors in the US to silver/black. At least the orange ones are available at B&H. But when will the black ones appear in the US? It’s O, Canada! I guess. 😉
B&H finally has BLACK GX7 kits with the 14-42mm II kit lens in stock, for $874. FINALLY!
I had to buy mine from Aden Camera in Canada back in October.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1008118-REG/panasonic_dmc_gx7kk_lumix_dmc_gx7_mirrorless_micro.html
+1 – Like you I bought my GX7 back in October. At that time Panasonic and their U.S. dealers would not sell the black GX7 in the States so I bought a silver one, (I prefer the black for use in street photography).
Anyway the silver/black GX7 matches my silver/black GM1 that I am getting over the disappointment. 😉
JeffHarris . . . a picture of all that ugliness the Olympus fans are fuming over.
http://content.screencast.com/users/dolbydunn/folders/GM1/media/e0c2e35e-96af-4b8e-9c3d-a72163f45a63/Lumix%20GX7%20and%20GM1.jpg
No ugliness here and the cameras look good as well. The GX7 looks great. And! I’m an E-M1 owner and before that the E-M5 and earlier the E-P2, E-30 and E-330.
So I guess I could creep into the Oly owner category.
JimD – Thank you, Sir!
I wouldn’t think one would “creep” into the Olympus camp. Oly makes GREAT cameras and lenses . . . (Olympus lenses O25, O45, O12 are currently the only lenses which look like they belong on my GM1. Olympus lenses are the right silver color and the proper balance when attached to the GM1) I use the Oly 45mm f1.8 on the GM1 and LOVE the results.
I am anxious to see the Olympus E-M5 replacement.
JEFF: I rented a GX7 for a bit over a week and really enjoyed it. A few things surprised me, and I’m wondering what your take is, having had the camera for a longer period:
* while I was initially really excited about the tilting EVF, in practice, I did not often use the tilt. I found waist level shooting easier with the LCD
* the EVF protrudes enough to have it in the way of the LCD, so I used the tilt just to get it up and out of the way. I’d have preferred if it was not tilting, but flush to the body
* the camera feels really light compared to the EP5, and while having that “solid feel” and weight sounds good, in practice, I appreciated the GX7 much more.
* I didn’t really do hard testing of the IBIS, but saw CameraLabs’ comparison vs Oly’s, which made the Panny look pretty weak. Do you find the IBIS helpful, or is it just a marketing bullet?
While I no longer own the camera, I can answer your questions.
*Coming from the GF2/GX1 that I still use almost daily, I used the tilt feature of the EVF a lot. So to have it built in, it worked well. The myth of the evf flipping up in your bag or pocket in ever happened to me, as I had it in my bookbag, and mostly in my parka pocket, in and out no problem. Even some times with my P/L25mm attached.
*I don’t understand how the protruding evf got in the way. I’ve owned a G5 and the evf sticks out just as much, if not more, so I don’t know what you mean.
*The body does feel light, but I know that it’s well built, and with the P/L25mm, it felt very good in hand.
*I have shaky hands and I could tell the difference between no ibis/with ibis, and even though it’s not to the level of a Olympus camera with 5 axis ibis, I still see the difference. Better to have some, than none at all.
I recently sold mine, but when I had it, I used it almost daily, with my Canon 6D taking shelf space. I feel it’s near perfect in size and I wish it was APS-C and All Black. I feel Panasonic made a HUGE mistake by releasing only the silver/black version in the states. Somebody really dropped the ball there.
The G7 may be a big deal for Panasonic if they at least include ibis, magnesium build, weatherproofing and most importantly, a competitive price. Why they don’t market the G series as a alternative to larger Canon Rebels is beyond me.
And….Gm1 isnt a retro desing? Lol. And voights arent retro desing? Please take your anti oly pils and relax
🙂
BH wanted an “EXCLUSIVE” deal on the black for 3 months. THAT’S why there was no black GX7 available.
Sure doesn’t seem as though B&H made much of such a monopolistic opportunity. Still difficult to buy a black GX7 body.
+1
GX7 is much prettier than E-P5, but we don’t know how will E-P7 look like.
GX7 has far superior handling to e-p5. But sadly evf is unpleasant to use, evf-4 is bigger and eyes don’t get tired. In addition no stupid 2min limit in bulb mode.
But the E-P5/7 has clearly better ergonomics than the GX7. The two wheels of the E-P5 sit exactly where there are needed and have a nice tactile feel, opposite to the thumb wheel of the GX7.
GX7 sits in hand well without any strength, e-p5 on the other hand has horrible grip. And my hands aren’t even big.
The GX7 is indeed a better looking camera, but the build quality is a let down. The top plate feels hollow because it’s made out of cheap plastic and the buttons feel flimsy and sit loosely. The GX7 just feels cheap and tacky.
Doesn’t sound like you’ve actually used the GX7. I have taken 2,000 pictures and videos since Oct 2013 with mine and can say that your account certainly doesn’t describe the GX7.
I didn’t see where you mentioned anything about your experience using the GX7, the results you achieved, pictures or videos that you took, etc.
I can’t pretend to understand the mentality of someone who trashes something he knows absolutely nothing about, but you will never make it as a “Objective Reviewer.”
Why are you so easily offended and making assumptions? I owned the GX7 for several months and recently sold it. Even the Canon EOS M and original NEX-5 had better build quality.
@Anonymous
You seem to have an agenda, yourself.
Your posts do not describe the GX7. It’s nothing personal, but the complaints you’ve posted against the GX7 are so ill-fitting as to be laughable. To one who has used the GX7, your complaints do not pass the smell test.
It would be a strange move for Olympus as they are not known for following trendy features and mostly get critisized for what they are doing.
Are you seriously calling EVFs a trend .. ? I’m guessing having a sensor, lens, or back display is overrated as well.
most PEN’s have EVF they are just external, its the way Olympus choose, not going the RF faux trend and keeping the build in EVF for the OMD line. IF Olympus will give in to a EVF PEN, then its thanks to the people who somehow insist on a flat shaped mirrorless camera. I would not have to reply on this if you just tried to figure out what I meant 🙂
The original pen had a viewfinder
It would be awesome if they could do something along that line again
http://www.exakta.net/images/stories/Coleccionismo/Pen-50-up/Oly-Pen-F-back-AA.jpg
what a tiny LCD.
thumb grip seems badly designed, it could split the body in half.
And no buttons? No Buy!
Speed dial is on the front. 1/500 only (rotary shutter). VF is small but so is the camera, also its a wee bit dark inside. But 72 shots per roll! great.
Would not suit modern picture taker. MF only EV scale light meter. Only change ISO with a film change or get over/under exposed shots.
No, not many knobs and dials but far to complicated for most picture takers of the modern era.
You can’t get more trendy than “Retro” styling! To top that, it certainly is hipster-ish. 😉
Putting an integrated EVF into a PEN is LONG overdue. I found the tilty EVF to be much more useful than I first thought it would be.
well retro is kinda of a trend too, but in this case see it more as a tribute way to compliment the designlines of the good era’s. While I see RF style just as a stubborn urge to get things flat and the evf at the wrong place, a gun has its visor also in line with the barrel, making the “target excitement” more yummi…hmmm..
I agree about the centered EVF and lens alignment.
I had my doubts about it at first, having shot with a couple rangefinders as a kid and never really liking them. My first real camera was a Konica II… handheld light meter, yippee!… then a Konica Auto S2. Anyway, the EVF takes away that weird and disconcerting rangefinder parallax view, so it’s really okay in actual use. Even with longer lenses, like the 100-300mm, it works just fine.
Have no real data, but comparing sales of OM-D cameras (EVF “prism”) against GX7 (corner EVF) – OM-D wins heavily (Sony and Fuji already have copycats of OM-D design).
Remember also, Olympus failed miserably with E-300 and E330 (Porro corner VF). Sure they remember that.
Only on fan forums there are loud groups of corner EVF lovers, but obviously there are not many buyers.
Are you kidding me or what ? Customers prefer OMD because there is no other choice (not counting Panasonic) ! If there was a rangefinder style camera (with the same E-M5 tech inside) many would take that one instead of OMD. Just look at Fujifilm how they are successful with their rangefinder style cameras.
No, I’m not kidding you.
You should believe sales data more than your opinion, based on flawed logic like:
> “Just look at Fujifilm how they are successful with their rangefinder style cameras”
Sure they are, since they had no EVF bump camera till now. Please observe how successful they will be with their newest EVF bump model, compared to rangefinder like models in future.
Please note also Olympus case. Olympus E-500 and E-300, E-330 models were marketed pretty much in same time, with pretty much same features, E-330 was even first DSLR with dual live view. E-500 was their first good seller, while other two (rangefinder like) DSLRs were complete fail.
Fuji is claiming that the XT-1, with its SLR style, center EVF is selling “twice” as briskly as they anticipated. Who knows? It may just be marketing hype, or that the camera is feature packed and might be their best camera to date. Or that casual consumers unjustly associate the middle hump with “professional/serious” and smaller rangefinder style cameras with point and shoot.
Obviously, that’s not true, but that may be the perception. For enthusiasts on this board, it just comes down to personal preference. I like the rangefinder style a lot when shooting smaller primes, but find my EP5 very unbalanced when shooting larger lenses and using a big, heavy flash. The EM1 or my Panny G5 balances much better in those times.
I’ve said it before: my favorite thing about moving to M43 just a few months ago is having an ecosystem that allows me to have a huge variety of bodies and lenses. My Canon system always allowed me to make nice photos, but always meant big, sometimes heavy, bland cameras and fairly large lenses. M43 allows me to take a small, retro camera and primes along when I want to travel light, or a larger, DSLR style camera to hang zooms off of and carry flashes. And all with lenses that can travel across bodies and manufacturers and help me produce great images.
There’s a place for both styles. I’d love to see Oly simplify the PEN line into two basic configurations, much like Apple handles laptops: “Pro” and “Air.” The “pro” PEN could be ruggedized and feature packed, while the “Air” version aims for uncompromised IQ in the smallest package.
Doug is spot on ! on all accounts.
There are MANY factors which may affect the success of slr styled cameras like the OMD, XT1 and A7, like exclusive features, line-up hierarchy, styling and consumer perception. But one thing is certain, Fuji, Sony and Pany have had NO trouble selling RF styled cameras yet, that means that RF styled cameras have sustained a segment of the market for a LONG time, thus there’s a huge demand for them. Olympus (and samsung I guess) is the only (relevant) company WITHOUT an EVF equipped RF-style camera, that tells you a lot. The lack of E-P5 sales is not due to people prefering the OMD line at all, it’s because of overpricing and lack of features, period. Had an E-PX camera with EVF appeared before the X100, NEX7 or OMD it would’ve been a home run, Olympus would’ve taken the market by storm (much like those cameras did).
I’m really sick and tired of reading this discriminatory and restrictive comments from SLR-junkies…Year after year, every time this topic comes up, faux SLR fans come up with excuses for Olympus to insist on avoiding the placement of an EVF on the PEN line. Get into your heads, add on EVFs do not cut it! centered viewfinder is worse than side-evf and a styling choice at best!
In what kind of harmful manner does it affect YOU that other people get their type of camera produced !? Why are you people against m43 benefiting from having a variety of bodies instead of just faux SLRs ?
Your opinion on cameras (to which you are totaly entitled)is presented here as a fact. You certainly can express your wishes here.
But camera makers can certainly decide to manufacture cameras, they believe they can sell.
> I’m really sick and tired of reading this
> discriminatory and restrictive comments
> from SLR-junkies…
“SLR junkies” are entitled to present their opinion too. If you can’t tolerate that, try to vent your frustration somewhere else…
Your opinion on cameras (to which you are totaly entitled)is presented here as a fact. It is not a fact, but you certainly can express your oppinions / wishes here.
But camera makers can certainly decide to manufacture cameras, they believe they can sell.
> I’m really sick and tired of reading this
> discriminatory and restrictive comments
> from SLR-junkies…
“SLR junkies” are entitled to present their opinion too. If you can’t tolerate that, try to vent your frustration somewhere else…
I never presented my opinions as fact, that’s the whole point of my argument here: PREFERENCE, CHOICE, INDIVIDUAL TASTE.
I’m defending the right to CHOOSE what kind of camera we can buy, people like you and Ulli and many others are not. You are not merely voicing your preference for SLR styled mirrorless but have also tried to force it down everyone else’s throat by creating circumstantial arguments to back your preference. The existence of SLR styled cameras is NOT due to the lack of success of RF styled cameras, quite the contrary, it’s only because RF styled cameras were successful that we now have XT1s, OMDs and A7s, otherwise Sony, Fuji and Pany would all have retired from mirrorless long before they could amass the R&D funds to make faux SLRs.
I’m not trying to limit m43 only to RF styled cameras, I want there to be both SLR and RF styled bodies for everyone to choose. You may prefer centered EVF to cornered EVF, it might suit YOU but you’re not everyone, I prefer cornered EVF and I think Oly should profit from allowing people to CHOOSE which way to shoot. I advocate variety as the predominant forte of m43, whereas people against a PEN with EVF would rather see m43 reflect their previous canikon system with uniform, undifferentiated SLR bodies. Olympus is the ONLY manufacturer who’s NOT integrating an EVF into their RF styled cameras, the E-P5 is an awesome but utterly crippled camera that’s not selling much, not because of its style but because it lacks features that the competition has and on top of that is overpriced; meanwhile, a whole segment of the market is dedicated to RF styled cameras with EVF and selling very successfully.
Speaking of the X-T1…
http://www.fujirumors.com/5-stars-again-for-the-x-t1-its-hard-to-imagine-a-better-csc-than-the-x-t1-expertreviews/
It’s getting perfect scores all around!
Tropo.
The E330 was a very expensive camera at the time. It also had more advanced features than just live view. Even the tilt mirror was howled down as not needed on a digital camera and live view was ridiculed.
So VF position had little to do with the sell rate.
Not many cameras around today with out them. Must have had Canikon scared back then.
I don’t get it. I get my photographic thrills by capturing a fleeting moment, or by recording a live performance on video.
Some here seem to get their camera related thrills by scrutinizing sales data. What does it matter which camera company makes the most money?
How is it that ticker tape based, green eye-shade calculations prove one’s photographic credibility or denote wisdom or artistry?
Don’t make it tiltabke and it would be perfect to me. I prefer the tiltable screen and a fixed EVF to the protruding element. (Actually I don’t need another m43 body though)
I think a viewfinder would make this cameras a lot more appealing.
+10
Actually the tillable EVF is quite nice in actual use. I certainly had my doubts, but it really adds another dimension and more flexibility when handling the camera. I’m kind of surprised that no one thought of it sooner.
There’s really no reason why an ELECTRONIC viewfinder, which connects with wires, can’t go anywhere on a camera. One could even have some sort of rail system on the top of a camera with electrical connections and move the EVF, hotshoe or any other device around to different locations. But that really sounds like a solution looking for a problem. Maybe Sony will do it? 😉
Wifi to google glass, use of wires is so 80’s.
Until now, Panasonic and Olympus is doing staring contest.
Who will get the corner viewfinder out first.
Um, what? I think Panasonic has won that one with the GX7
I am fine with my EP-5 w/VF-4 just the way it is. I like the centralized , easy-to-viewVF-4 ()great VF!. I think it is fine the Olympus redesigned the camera…but I do not think either is “pocketable”..(whatever that means :-)). I definitely would not run out to buy an EP-7 just because of this redesign…but it looks cool.
I also own an E-PL6 which is considerably smaller than the E-P5..pretty stealthy with, say the Panny 14mm….but I could see Olympus consolidating the E-PL & E-PM Lines into one camera..I do not see a real reason for both.
Oh..wait…that article is just “speculation”…so the camera at the top of the page is not a reality.
Olympus might have missed that boat. A PEN with corner viewfinder is not going to sell that well, I fear. The value of the E-Px series is based on its stylish design and high build quality combined with the flexibility of external accessories. IMO Olympus should pursue those propositions. Also, in order to establish a modern classic the flagship PEN should be refreshed every two years at the most.
+1 totally agree!
WTF Olympus should just make a E-1 MKII for their next OMD line.
E-1 is still the nicest DSLR body I’ve handled. I don’t know what happened at Olympus between the E-1 and E-3. I think they hired some Canon rejects.
At the same time, I was thinking how they can remake an E-1 with a bigger rear LCD…
I think you should check the rear of the E-1 again and measure the LCD vs the real estate available on the backpanel.
I did, that’s why they must make some modifications (the buttons etc. or maybe the hump, but no that’s why I liked it in the first place) to accommodate a bigger LCD screen, the original was simply abysmal…
sure they just need make a useful button layout, a 3 inch LCD would be no problem. We can only dream about an E-1 in mft format, as it doesnot offer anything extra compared to an OMD. I suggest to optimize it for video, giving it a purpose as a seperate line.
I think so too, the E-1 was a total departure from the classic slr body design. And I believe the last dslr with a Kodak CCD, which Dpreview blamed for a “digital look”…As always great things end too early in a sea of average but dominating majority.
Basically nobody bought it so they made a camera that looked like a Canon, hoping to confuse Canon customers. And that didn’t work either….
Yes an camera so is more similar to GH3/GH4k.
Yuk, a dreadful idea…
An E-1 looks way better than the fugly GH3/4 (just cosmetic wise, I am not commenting on image quality)
Flash?
Thunder!
I don’t get why exactly they expected to sell many of those in the first place. They are just less interesting than what their competitors offer. The Panasonic G line sells for the same and has a VF integrated. Sony and Samsung are both cheaper.
I did once consider a PL5 and having tried one I think its a very good camera, small and responsive as it can get. But when I wanted to buy one, they used to cost 600-700EUR with the basic kit lens. And in Germany they still cost around 500EUR, when the NEX 3n is selling for less than 300EUR. For that price I’d rather get an alternative product from a competitor (which I did) or just pay a little more for an OMD series camera.
I like the idea a lot. The OMD EVF bump kills some kind of portability. The Sony Alpha 6000 (Nex 6 / 7) successor, has a great package to offer for about ~800,- $. So a similar more compact (in comparisson to OMDs) camera with IBIS etc. (M10 technique maybe) for about 500-600 would be a great camera!
I think the hump-kills-portability is not really valid, certainly not in the case of the E-M5 or E-M10.These fit easily in the pocket of a jacket. Ok people who want to shove it in a jeans pocket are wishful thinkers.
I’ve had my GX7 since October and the sleek body is much easier to carry than my GH2. But in no way is it pocketable. That’s always struck me as an odd criteria when looking at interchangeable lens cameras.
Ofcourse we need to consider the lens for use. I can take my bare E-M5 plus a pancake in my coatpocket and enter a club or small scale concert where they also check bags for cameras.At my last job at the airport i alwasy carried my OMD with me in my utility jacket.But you are limited to short FL lens.
The E-P5 is the only m4/3 I can put in a jeans pocket with the Panny 20mm. The E-M5’s hump is just good tall and adds too much depth as well. I was looking at the GX7, but the tilting EVF has the same protrusion problem as the OM series. It may seem trivial, but it’s the difference between taking the camera or leaving it behind.
I am in the minority, but the E-P5 is pretty much a perfect camera as it can go “small” or big as needed.
PEN line-up looks chaotic. Pen Mini + Pen Lite is nonsense. They should reorganise the line-up: Pen Lite (kids & women), Pen (the current E-P cameras), Pen PRO (without “mode dial” and most similar to Fujifilm) for advanced users.
…a Pen Pro would be great..(with manual controls & weather sealing)..I would DEFINITELY buy that camera.
I do not believe it’s going to happen. I would be very pleased with that E-P7 (it would be my first brand new camera purchase) but I know Olympus …
Nobody dares to comment on the tiltable viewfinder? Wasn’t this the most abysmal feature of the GX 7, according to this forum? Now either you are converted after having tried the GX 7 or there is some bias in this forum…
That – or people aren’t bothering to comment on a Photoshop that is probably a E-P5/GX7 hybrid.
The rumour here is just that the EVF is there, not that it will be tilt-able.
The tillable EVF is surprisingly useful. I had no idea how much until I’d been shooting with it for a few weeks and suddenly realized it COULD tilt.
It does really need the auxiliary eyecup, but that’s the only real negative I find with it.
I don’t understand why everyone talks about the tiltable VF on theGX7 like it is this wunderkind??? …when auxiliary finders I have used like the OLY VF4 are totally tiltable as well. I actually find it to be something that is very helpful “occasionally”.
Well go discuss design after the Sigma Quattro (that I kind of like). However one must be really a filthy hypocrite to negate the enthusiast response of the poll above.
Yes a Pen with EVF would probably be a resounding success, and offset in part the meh design of the OM-D crowd.
In a year or two people will be so sick of Retro and faux dSLR that they will even laugh about the concept, and buy a ridiculous proboscis GX7, if Oly doesn’t have a leap of genius 🙂
I haven’t held a new Sigma yet, so can’t speak to the ergonomics of it, but if it handles, holds and works well, I’m intrigued. I love the 3 fixed primes concept. The previous generation seemed a poor fit for anything but very “considered,” careful landscape/tripod shooting, or perhaps, in studio setting, so not a camera for me personally. But the IQ sounds absolutely insanely great. If they can make these new ones handle well enough for out and about use, I’d consider owning one or three.
Finaly Olympus have perfected the EP design and I can see already this camera is much better than the Panasonic.
Very nice. But the OMD design(s) are growing on me. I have no problem with the ‘fake prism’ hump after using the E-M5 for a while.
Good news, but I won’t consider it if they throw out built in flash and don’t make a proper grip.
Whatever happens, they’ll be very late considering most journalist said Panasonic GX7 was late.
Just ordered a E-P5 & it’s arriving today! I hope the Pen line continues on!
I will only consider to buy an E-P7 with built-in EVF when the video quality will finally be much improved.
This is an obvious fake, but a PEN with an integrated (VF-4 quality) viewfinder would be awesome.
The cosmetic beauty of any design is strictly a matter of personal taste. I generally prefer the styling of the E-M5 or to a lesser degree, the E-M10. If I were buying a camera to take pictures of, I would own the E-M5.
The cosmetic styling of the GX7 is more austere and less “retro” than, for instance, the Fuji X100/S which, to me is an object of great beauty.
However I am more compelled by functionality than visual beauty. It would be nice to find them in the same package, and in truth, the appearance of a GREAT performing camera can grow on you. About 30 percent of my shooting is video and so video performance is much more important to me than cosmetic styling.
When Olympus produces a replacement for the E-M5, I would LOVE to see a SERIOUS video upgrade. The cosmetic styling is totally cool already.
Finally .
EP7 need to redesign to make it more appealing .
My 2 cents of view .
I think it was a mistake from the beginning that the EP series did not have an offset EVF like the original Pen half-frame SLRs. One of the great things about my Leica M-3 was that I could shoot with both eyes open. Harder to do with a center mount EVF. The offset EVF also has the advantage of keeping the LCD screen free of nose oil.
There are too many Pens. There should be only two, the EP with built in EVF and the EPM without. The built-in EVF should be simple and not tiltable. It should not add to the depth of the camera or stick out. The Pen series needs more compact, inexpensive lenses. The whole point of that format is its compactness. And the price of the body needs to be lower. The Olympus EPM2 two-lens kit is a great deal at $400. I just bought one for my son and his fiancee and they’re ecstatic with it.
Back in 1976 I was on the Dakota Photo Documentary Project. While other photographers were lugging around Nikons and big heavy camera bags, I used an Olympus OM-1 and I kept my essential lenses in my coat pockets — no camera bag. I could work unobtrusively and fast and my subjects didn’t feel threatened by a big honking camera thrust into their face. My favorite lens was the 24 mm f2.8 which was a tiny jewel. I wish there were an M43 equivalent.
Mirrorless four-thirds cameras are selling well in Japan but not in the U.S. where their public presence is virtually non-existent. They’re not in Best Buy, Target, or Walmart, which are the three absolutely essential venues for America.
Yes, Olympus needs to get their m43 cameras to BestBuy & Target!
I see Samsung NX & Sony (Is it Alpha now instead of NEX?) cameras at BestBuy all the time, but no Olympus..
Target has the Nikon V cameras too!
Isn’t MZuiko12mm f2 good enough?
Fred, have you tried the 14mm f2.5? It’s the widest, smallest pancake and I imagine it would be a reasonably close match to your needs.*
*-I did just get a 12mm f2.0 though, so I’m starting to appreciate how different the 24/28 angle of view is, but I also appreciate how much larger (and more expensive) the Oly lens is.
In 35 mm. format, I found the 24 mm lens to be more useful than the 28 mm. The 28 was not quite wide enough and the 24 is the widest angle lens that is usable on a daily basis. My kit lens goes to 28 equivalent and it’s not quite wide enough for me, and the 12 f2 is way too expensive. I would snap up a 12 mm f2.8 pancake that’s reasonably priced.
Mmmmm.. That’s exactly the camera needed to complement my E-M5. I’m glad that I passed on both the E-M1 (too big, no need for PDAF) and the E-P5 (no integrated EVF). Hopefully they will offer a white one too !
Weather sealing please!
In my opinion they should drop the Pen line except the e-pm to keep a very small one in their portfolio. 3 OM-D and 3 Pen cameras would be way too much.
Totally fake. Not gonna happen.
I recent interview, Olympus representative said something like that: “OM-D line is for people that want DSLR like experience, PEN line is for happy shooters that want to upgrade from cameraphone or point’n’shoot camera, but still want to shoot like they used to.” For those few odd-balls out there, there’s an EVF accessory. I don’t claim that this strategy is right, but it is their strategy at this moment.
Suicidal strategy. I don’t like dSLR-oriented CSC such as OM-D and so on, what should I do if I’d like to buy a pro Olympus rangefinder? Pen shouldn’t be just for kids, women and aged people. I think Pen Lite & Pen Mini should merge and E-P should go Pro.
+1. Too many Pens. a Pen lite and a Pen Pro would be ideal.
It was their strategy at that moment, and it might change. The original PEN E-P1 was definitely not for compact upgraders; it was a very different camera than a DSLr but surely it was not aimed at compact camera upgraders. So the strategy changes all the time. And the statement that PEN is for upgraders is just not true when you look at the E-P5. It was very expensive, had 5-axis stabilization (premium feature), and an enormous external viewfinder. Also, Olympus isn’t blind to the success (or at least promotional success) Panasonic had with the GX7. And since we won’t know if the E-M5 will get a real successor, the E-P6/7 could step into its shoes.
> … And since we won’t know if the E-M5 will get a real successor…
what do you mean?
The EM5 really was a pivotal camera for Olympus – it most definitely is getting a successor.
Sure, they’re first extending the range, with EM1 for those who thought EM5 didn’t offer enough, and now EM10 for those who found the EM5 too expensive, so that everyone can have an OMD.
When EM10 looses it’s momentum -say late springtime?- you’ll see the EM6, EM7 or whatever it’s going to be called, with some feature that is not in EM10 nor EM1, so that any one who has an OMD is going to want it.
If that isn’t what happens, I thinks they should hire me as a consultant.
Well, I don’t think this will happen so fast. Think about it, Oly is trying to make E-M5 users buy the E-M1, not the E-M10. The E-M5 successor must at least have the features of the E-M10, plus something to set it apart from it. Which would be PDAF – too similar to the E-M1. Not gonna happenn. At the moment, there is simply no room for a E-M6. Also, now the PEN line-up is going to be refreshed first. I think Oly made a huge mistake here; they should have made a direct successor to the E-M5, not split the camera in two.
Perhaps Olympus will remake the E-M5 . . . E-M6 to specialize more in video. That would make it truly different than the E-M1
If you’re gonna quote someone, at least cite your source – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9M7voKGHKDs
Although I like my GX7 very much, the biggest problem I have is with the EVF. Not the sticking-out part, but the it’s just physically too small or wearing glasses, and the general comfort level when using is also lower than with other cameras. Oly could put a huge ass EVF on the back while cutting the display to 16:9, hence keeping the overall size small. EVF doesn’t have to tilt, and Oly won’t do it. It’s a better gimmick for the GX7, and I wouldn’t be surprised if Pana dropped it in the future.
An E-P7 with integrated (bounce able) flash, viewfinder and PAL (video) support would sell massively.
Essentially a NEX-6 with 5-axis stabilization and Olympus excellent 12, 25, 45 and 75mm glass would be unbeatable.
No system could touch this…
I have been dreaming about this a long time…….
(I am a Sony Nex user)
Unless you want the 5-axis for video, then wouldn’t the GX7 pretty much meet your dreams?
You are right.
I need the stabilization and my experience is that Olympus glass always worked better on Olympus cameras.
Hmm, have to wonder what advantage over GX7 could be. Unless they put in the EM-1 viewfinder, or the phase detect sensor, then you already have the GX7 which has better video.
Just an observation, but from all of the talk of reducing (or at least shaking up) the PEN line, it seems like Olympus tapped a real need with the E-M10. No one seems to be suggesting there should only be 2 OM-D models. Personally, I don’t see why there couldn’t be an E-M10 equivalent PEN (3-axis IS, integrated EVF) for those that prefer rangefinder styling. Due to space limitations I’d be surprised if it were practical for such a model to retain an integrated flash, though.
Right now it’s a bid odd having the E-P5 sitting between (by features) the two lower OM-D models. It seems like it’s mostly due to the age of the E-M5, which means it lacks WiFi (and focus peaking). Am I mistaken, or at 2 years since its announcement has E-M5 reached the status of “Longest Active-Serving Olympus Micro Four Thirds Camera”? In any event, having a high-end PEN to compete with the GX7 and satisfy rangefinder fans makes sense to me, but not if it cannibalizes large numbers of sales from more profitable (and better for brand image/visibility) DSLR style cameras.
I’m actually really interested in these themes and questions, but at the same time it’s kind of comforting knowing that what I write here won’t have any impact on the decisions that Olympus ultimately makes. 🙂
My within the realm of possibility wish list:
* Weather, dust, freeze and shock proof ruggedization
* Markedly improved high ISO, same megapixel count
* As many axes as it takes (5, 3,) to provide awesome stabilization without shutter shock, real or imagined
* Left side, flush to the body, hybrid EVF/OVF (like Fuji’s X100s), optionally displaying frame lines, or go one better:
true manual focus, rangefinder viewfinder mode
* Tilting touch screen LCD (as current)
* Zebras for over exposure indication in stil and video
* Focus peaking in still and video
* Hyperfocal distance scale in software (like Ricoh GR)
* Standard mic and headphone jacks
* Hot shoe and popup Flash with wireless flash commander
* WiFi
* Better video codecs and frame rates
* 1/8000 or higher shutter speed
* Electronic shutter (silent) shutter mode
* High 1/320 or greater external flash sync
* Matching weather sealed, shock proof fast primes, in black, including lens hoods and pouches with leaf shutter capable of flash sync at any speed with lots more distance scale markings than current lineup and more solid feeling manual focus clutch
* All black or black and silver body at the same price
I’d gladly pay EM1 prices for this camera.
One of the things I liked on the E-P2 is that it could be activated and held with one hand. Despite some ergo limits it was designed for the palm and the pocket.
I have sone use for the faux dSLR too – basically zooms, but they are complementary. m4/3 is v. good at SCALABLE, so no need to privilege a form factor, if people like different.
Yes!
I have no other wish list to add to the E-P5. For me it will be perfect.
And yet another tiny sensor toy camera from the M43 factory.
Sensor size’s the new opium of the people.
AAAAAGHGGHHGHGHGHG SON OF A ****!
I’ve been waiting for YEARS for Olympus to grow some b*lls and release the PEN with EVF and no they decide to do it just when I bought a GX7 !? D*mn it!
No, but seriously now, I’m really happy that Oly finally had the courage to put an EVF outside the OMD line, it just didn’t make any sense to cripple the PEN like that when every other manufacturer had better equipped RF-styled bodies. There is no chance of cannibalizing the OMD range because people will choose whatever style fits them best and in the end that money goes back to Oly anyway, whereas before that money went to the competition.
I’m not as sad as I thought I would be if something like this was leaked by the time I had my GX7, in the end I guess I’m just missing the styiling of the PEN and 1 more axis for IBIS (2 axis vs 5 axis = 2 axis vs 3 axis, since it seems that 3 axis is more or less equal to 5 axis) because the GX7 mimicks most of the features I liked about Oly cameras (multi exp, IBIS, dials, etc…)
Besides, Oly will probably overprice the heck out of this new PEN, that’s a given, I’ll either just wait a year for the price to go down or instead just wait until the new organic sensors roll out. If I end up needing some unique Oly feature like Live bulb I’ll just get a cheap EPM.
There’s a hilarious post over at CanonWatch. Canon is bragging about not doing retro inspired cameras. Then again, they don’t seem to be doing much of anything, unless you count the all white SL1
It will never seize to amaze me how much text people can produce about something that doesn’t exist. Just like with religion!
One thing from me – Admin, perhaps you should add another option to the poll:
– Yes, if the EVF is not the only improvement over the E-P5.
The GX7 is one of the most awkward looking cameras I’ve ever seen. That being said I’ve always liked the little gold “L” on all the Lumix cameras.
Given the success of the OM-D line, I think Oly should thin out the PENs. Just keep the E-PM2 & E-PL5 (still one of my favorite cameras), which perfectly compliment the the OM-Ds. The E-P5 is too large and the features overlap too much of the OM-D, especially if they add an integrated EVF.
Is it me or is the retro style beginning to look painfully stale? How many generations are we in? And it ‘s still looking like the first’s attempt to be hip. Olympus PEN line is akin to those drawn on finger mustaches people flood instagram with. It was cute at first, but now only remotely interesting when hot chicks do it. Otherwise it’s a sad miss at being trendy.
Fake. Olympus’s own Product & marketing guy explains very clearly the philosophical design and end-user differences between the OMD and PEN lines in this interview form CP+ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9M7voKGHKDs
There will never be a PEN line camera with an inbuilt EVF.
Rob..Mr. Toshi Terada did not say “There will never be a PEN line camera with an inbuilt EVF”…if you listen to what he says…there is room to wiggle there in the Pen Line. He basically said that the Pen line is for people who want very good picture quality, but that they want to keep things simple…. Actually a clip-in VF (don’t get me wrong..I personally LOVE the current E-P5 setup with the VF-4) is not really all of that simple. I would not be surprised if the new EP did not have a viewfinder and I would not be surprised either if it did have a built-in VF./ I love the E-P5 so much that I almost don’t care what the next incantation is if there is no sensor improvement leap.
At any rate…Blunty did a nice job with the video and the questions….
+1 . . . I like the way that you unabashedly proclaimed your love of your favorite camera without saying anything derogatory about other cameras or camera makers.
What is the point of one more non-pocketable Olympus? The GM1 is the one to challenge, in term of size (it will have to be slightly larger, to include a 5-axis IBIS, not to mention a faster mechanical shutter, unless Olympus manages to build an electronic global shutter instead), possibly also in terms of menus, the GXProII is the one to challenge in terms of lens (yes, I know, the lens of the GXProII has not been tested yet, but it cannot be worse than the current crop of kit zooms) and the Fujis are the ones to challenge in terms of controls. I would rather have a hugely downsized camera without an EVF that matches the EM1 in terms of specs, controls, and performance, but can still fit into my pocket, than a camera with an EVF styled like a PEN, but with the size of the EM5 or EM10.
Seems nobody here does Studio/Strobe photography. As the GX7 has an issue where you can’t actually tilt the viewfinder as it right next to the hotshot and therefore you can’t use transmitters to trigger a Strobe. That really sucks. And it looks like this Olympus PEN wouldn’t have this problem.
-That the back display can flip up or down, so you don’t need to look thru the VF, right?
Well it seems to me inexcusable that a camera of this type and at this price, do not have any viewfinder, or you have to purchase and pay separately.
I almost bought a refurb PEN5 for 550.00. Glad I didn’t. I know it’s a well built camera but I still feel like it’s overpriced for what it is. It should be around 500 new. These cameras are to niche oriented if they are to survive the marketplace right now- and overpriced for what it is. The PEN5’s major appeal is EM1 performance at a cheaper price at this point. Most people aren’t making the decision based on cost alone.
1) Get rid of the humming sound from the 5 axis
2) Chunkier grip- maybe back to interchangeable. Relocated the wifi if necessary.
3) EVF built in and most importantly- LOWER THE PRICE. No more than 700 new IMO.
Also, if your going to charge sky high prices add OLED technology in the back. OLED belongs in every high end camera IMO. It makes you want to take pictures just to get that instant gratification from the back screen.
Very true. To me having OLED on the E-M5 is much more important than having Wi-Fi. It was a faux pas from Oly to have renounced it because of the colour dominant.
It is simply too effective when you are outdoors.
+1 . . .
I don’t really need WiFi but I sure appreciate any viewing screen improvements.
Design is the thing that separates cameras from each in in the minds and emotions of consumers. Gear heads may see only the sensor, but others are less likely to.
The retro design we are getting these days – the silver and black range finder style may be coming from focus groups, and a bunch of companies are producing them, including Panasonic, Fuji, Nikon, Olympus etc. The EM5 hump is a design choice, as is the GX7 grip and tilting EV. I prefer the cleaner Panasonic style to the Olympus PEN and EM ones have liked it since the GF1.
That doesn’t mean the PENs and E series are bad cameras, Panasonic just seems to have better designers for the shape of the camera and the menu systems
But what do I know? Olympus sold a ton of EM5s. Have they sold more of them than Panasonic has sold its m4/3rds cameras? Don’t know the figures.And who bought which?
It’s unfortunate that camera buyers aren’t as careful and prudent about choosing a spouse as they are in choosing their latest gadget. They would be able to afford a lot more gadgets. 😉
I have already GX7, so no, I’m not interested in PEN with EVF. Unless of course it is E-PMx and it is cheap. But I doubt very much that Oly would do that.
To make the EP-7 stand out, they need to have a hybrid optical finder like the Fuji 100s/X-pro that will give you the ability to use this as a rangefinder but with more information available in the viewfinder compared to a Leica. I do not think that the experience of using a rangefinder can be replicated using a DSLR nor a mirrorless. I feel that I am more connected with my subject. All the electronics and photographic intricacies are not the center of my attention. I am paying attention to my subject. This is the reason that I think a hybrid finder would be great. With the accessory port still being available for a EVF, you can have the best of all viewfinder worlds. Straight optical with focus assist or zone focusing, optical with all the electronic overlay bells and whistles, or with the EVF in the accessory port, a fully electronic interface just like a regular mirrorless camera. I am hoping for a hybrid built in finder that has the ability to adjust to the focal length of the lens attached from 10mm to 50mm (in MFT speak) with ability to overlay electronic information such as focus etc….
Considering Olympus had TTL viewfinding ON the original PEN series (1960’s) what makes you think they will bother with a shit rangefinder framing system?
Let Fuji have the hipster market.
Just curious, have use used a Fuji X100/X-Pro? I recently acquirred a Fuji X100, and have had all sorts of issues with framing, get focus on right point etc. I then was speaking a to a few people who seem to love theire Fuji’s, and was supprised to learn that all of them use EVF 99% of then time (Comapred to me using OVF 99% of the time).
I think a high quality EVF ala E-M1 is right way to go. I must confess, an actual RF camera m43s camera (has a RF system, sending focus distance to lens through wire) is an intriguing, but probably not practical, concept. I’d rather see a good b&w sensor m43 camera first 🙂
The PEN line is in trouble, especially with the advent of the E-M10. Why are people going to pay for an EPL-5 or EP-5 (the EPM-2 is a pretty good value IMHO), when they can get the well-priced OM-D? I own an E-P5, and I bought it for the 1/8000 shutter speed, 1/320 flash sync, small size and 5-axis image stabilization. Unfortunately, most consumers are not going to key in on these features when the DSLR-like E-M10 is available.
I think in order for the PEN line to thrive, they will have to take it in a different direction, a la D800/D4, D4s, i.e. going for a large pixel count., say between 20-24 megapixels for a studio/landscape weapon. The OM-D line, like the D4, can go for the sports/news crowd with rugged design and responsiveness. The PEN line (D800) can go for the studio and landscape shooters (who don’t need ruggedness or superior ergonomics) with larger pixel counts. If the Sony RX100 ii can do well with 20.2 megapixels, then I have to believe a PEN could do well with 20-24.
I’d like Panasonic to make the IBIS work on video, just that. I have higher hopes that Panasonic manages that rather than Olympus improving video. Actually I have higher hopes that Fuji steps up on video next time than Olympus. I won’t mind to be proven wrong but that’s just how I feel it. Fuji already recognized on interviews that they are going to address that because people are starting to ask for that and I know that Fuji listens to their customers, Olympus knows that people would buy a lot more of their cameras – even more after the 5-Axis magic – and even so, for some reason, they don’t care.
My friend,
The Japanese word in the circle next to the camera says that it’s a ‘CG mock-up’ (of what they think it might look like).
I would consider buying it if it can match the price of Sony a6000.
Otherwise OM-D EM10 seems to be a better choice.
until OLY makes 24p and 25p possible and better codec, they will be secon grade cameras… im tired of its video capabilities
Had EPL1 and its great little camera and its IBIS which was 2axis just like its now on GX7 is just enoguh…
Also nobody mentions silent electronic shutter and 1/320 flash synch on GX7
Well, the EVF would be a strong upgrade. But, PLEASE, I need a couple of dials (exposition compensation and shutter speed) in the vein of Fuji on the Pen body. Please, relase two Pen series: Pen Lite for PASM-dial users and Pen PRO for advanced ones. Current “Pen Mini & Pen Lite” = NONSENSE.
It’ll be the same 16mp sensored E-P5 with an evf and the’ll try and charge near EM1 prices.
Basicly my EM5 without the hump for twice the price.
Pass…
Where is E-P6? Bad number again? Why do not call the camera E-P100? Looks imposing and nice umber as well.
Hello. Hello.
Where has everybody gone? Am I alone in the world?