I was wondering how the E-M1 would affect the financial results from Olympus. There must be some good news hidden under the fact that the E-M1 is constantly on top of the most popular mirrorless camera ranking at Amazon (full list here).
Well, Olympus just issued their latest financial report (full pdf download here). And Olympus confirms the E-M1 sales helped them to increase by 19% their mirrorless camera sales! This helped to cut its imaging business losses by 60%. AP reports:
While Olympus is still not back to making profits again from its camera business, this is still pretty amazing because when you think about it, it’s really one single camera that proved so profitable for the company that its imaging division was able to reduce its operating losses from JPY4.3 billion (US$41.9 million) to JPY1.7 billion (US$16.6 million).
Forecast:
Olympus plans to focus on lens release and OMD line development. The PEN series is not doing well and it’s not clear how they will continue to develop the PEN line.
Summary in short: The OMD saved Olympus ass đ
E-M1 Store Links:
Olympus E-M1 body at Amazon, Adorama and BHphoto, Amazon DE (via DL), Amazon UK (via DL), Amazon ES (via DL), WexUK, Topshot FI, CameraWorldUK.
Olympus M. Zuiko Digital ED 12-40mm f/2.8 PRO Lens at Amazon, Adorama, BHphoto, AmazonDE (viaDL), Amazon ES (via DL).
Olympus E-M1 with 12-40mm Lens kit at Amazon DE (via DL), WexUK and CameraWorldUK, Amazon UK (via DL), Amazon ES (via DL).
Olympus E-M1 with 12-50mm Lens kit at Amazon DE (via DL), WexUK, CameraWorldUK, Amazon UK (via DL), Amazon ES (via DL).
Olympus EP-13 Eyecup for E-M1 at Adorama and BHphoto.
Olympus HLD-7 Battery Grip for E-M1 at Amazon, Adorama and BHphoto.
Olympus LC-62D Metal Front Lens Cap for 12-40mm at Adorama and BHphoto.
Olympus LH-66 Lens Hood for 12-40mm at Adorama and BHphoto.
142 Responses
good news
Great news! E-M1 is the camera all the loyal 43-users had yearning four. Except four the display (not usable for vertical format, E-5, E-3, E-620 had much better) this is a masterpiece of a camera.
No it’s not. The majority of loyal 4/3 users don’t care the slightest about that semi-camera. I know a lot of 4/3 users from my local Olympus club, and NONE of them bought the E-M1. It’s useless to all of us.
Check again troll.
The EM-1 completely trashes the E5 in EVERY ASPECT!
Good for us, but bad for my plans to get a discounted EM1 later this year. Hmm, maybe I should just pull the trigger on an EM10, or swallow the no-EvF option of a discounted EP5..
darn!
Plenty of discounts, up to 18%, around in Europe
That panasonic sensor sure proved to be great!! Pana to the rescue once more!
? I thought Em5 and Em1 had Sony sensors.
He is trolling. He always does. One of the regulars.
Trying and the truth are 2 different things, you never can’t seem to handle the latter
If there is no Pana sensor, Olympus can always turns their head to Sony. That’s why Panasonic has to crawl back to offer best sensor to Olympus. That’s the truth you can’t handle. đ
NO
E-m5 with Sony IMX109 inside,
But E-m1 is proved to use the MN34231 inside, with on-chip phase detection pixel array
on the Original MN34230, which is the latest 4/3 sensor for 4k/2K output from Panasonic.
(http://chipworks.force.com/catalog/ProductDetails?sku=OLY-E-M1_Pri-Camera)
(http://industrial.panasonic.com/www-cgi/jvcr13pz.cgi?E+SC+4+CGA7001+MN34230+8+WW)
It suggests that GH4 will use the MN34230, while E-m1 use the MN34231.
Wow! Didn’t know that. Amazing like Sony and Panasonic sensors are so close that seem interchangeable. How’s that possible??? Maybe the company is the manufacturer, not the actual designer?!
That they were on par it was clear, but so tight that Olympus is switching them from a model to another without none noticing.. that’s surprising to me.
Oh well, as long as the Pictures come along nicely I don’t mind.
Nice guest post at Steve Huff’s site with great photos!
It’s a Sony sensor. Olympus recently confirmed in an interview with Imaging Resource, that they and Sony are buying camera components from each other. It’s unclear what components Sony may be buying from Olympus, but what could Olympus possibly be buying from Sony, if not sensors?
Anyway, I think the popularity of the OM-D series over the PEN series, has more to do with the design and the built-in EVF. If the sensor was the main reason for the popularity of the OM-Ds, then the PENs would be just as popular. After all, they all share the same sensor, or a variation thereof.
Oly is still far from being profitable. That’s what you call fantastic news? Is m43 some sort of delusional sect?
These charts show a positive trend.
Actually no – The total Olympus business is profitable, the imaging division has not been.
In a market that is in flux most companies are losing money on their camera divisions right now, so to isolate out Olympus shows an agenda.
This news says to me – Olympus have got some good growth in mirrorless that is offsetting the system loss in fixed lens. They are actually handling the market shift better than many expected and are on the trajectory to have a profitable camera business.
Yes, that makes me wonder about the other 40%.
This is good news for Olympus and for all camera owners. Certainly not great news, because a money losing company is never viable in the long run.
Looking at the figures, it appears the biggest gain in helping reduce losses is the fact that they are dumping compact cameras. Naturally as smaller cameras- incl lower end mirrorless- are discontinued, a greater proportion of the remaining camera business is the OM-D line. Note that the growth of mirrorless as a percentage of their imaging sales is not necessarily so much that the mirrorless grew as that the compacts were thrown out.
Still, OM-D’s are higher margin, which means there is still room to slash prices if need be.
This news is good and bad. It’s good because there is a better chance of the OMD mirrorless line staying around a little longer. It’s bad because Olympus has just proven that slashing unprofitable lines (for now, compacts) is beneficial to the bottom line.
Now that Olympus has seen that cutting unprofitable lines is beneficial, and since the other parts of the imaging business are doing well, the eyes of Olympus may be even more on how to slash money losing offerings… such as its mirrorless camera line.
This buys them some breathing time. I think they have another year to make it and then they’ll be re-evaluated. They can’t count on any more infusions from their ‘big brother’ Sony. Sony just lost over a billion dollars. Sony just sold off its very nice Vaio PC line. There is talk about it selling its TV line. Can consumer cameras not be under consideration? Also in the light of Panasonic spinning off its less profitable consumer product lines?
I know Olympus is focusing on the higher-end, higher-margin product lineup. The problem is, so is everyone else. It’s not that they have any choice. Can the market sustain multiple high-end lines, once all the consumers that are going to buy expensive consumer luxury products have bought theirs, and see no real image improvement in the new models?
@ronin
“Now that Olympus has seen that cutting unprofitable lines is beneficial, and since the other parts of the imaging business are doing well, the eyes of Olympus may be even more on how to slash money losing offerings⌠such as its mirrorless camera line.”
You have totally misread their past and present financial statements either accidentally or on purpose, where does Olympus say mirrorless is unprofitable???
btw no one makes money on point and shoots, their average selling price is below $100 on wafer thin margins, any company still pushing themselves in point and shoots is stupid…
But Olympus as a company is NOT loosing money at all, it’s just the camera division (and not because of mirrorless).
Looking at the figures, it appears the biggest gain in helping reduce losses is the fact that they are dumping compact cameras. Naturally as smaller cameras- incl lower end mirrorless- are discontinued, a greater proportion of the remaining camera business is the OM-D line. Note that the growth of mirrorless as a percentage of their imaging sales is not necessarily so much that the mirrorless grew as that the compacts were thrown out.
Certainly, it’s the effect of eliminating compact cameras that has helped a lot but I wouldn’t compare compact P&Ss to entry level PENs, they follow totally different functions. The PEN line, being the older range of Olympus m43 cameras, has suffered the full weight of Olympus marketing negligence for far longer than the OMD line. It’s not that the OMD line is intrinsically more attractive to consumers, it’s that it has been advertised far more successfully and for longer. If Olympus dares to have any hope of expanding its mirrorless business then they must push the PEN line to amateur consumers, set the PENs as the logical next step beyond smartphones for people wanting to upgrade and get into photography.
That’s the problem with today’s photography market: In the past, if you wanted to take photos, you had no option but to buy the same camera that someone actually INTERESTED in photography was buying. Today, those who have no interest in photography(99% of people) do not buy a camera, they just casually use their phones. This has caused camera sales to be limited to those who are into photography, which is not many people.
The important thing to realize here is the determining factor behind this trend. And that factor is CONVENIENCE. There’s nothing more convenient for regular folks than the phone they already have in their pockets, both in terms of size and connectivity. And out of all the mirrorless systems out there, m43 has the most potential to reach that same level of convenience (GM1 class cameras + small lenses). The sooner Oly and Pany start to market m43 as the most convenient(small+connected) camera system, the sooner they’ll consolidate in this market.
If Olympus doesn’t realize that the PENs haven’t been as successful as the OMDs because of the OWN marketing negligence instead of some misguided market perception then it would be a really bad move to eliminate that line. Having more choices of body types is one, if not the most, important aspect of m43.
The high end market is already accounted for, as you said, there will not be many more people looking for yet another high end body. M43 needs to expand and to do that they need new consumers, and the low end is the only way to get them.
The need MORE and BETTER marketing in the west.
> it appears the biggest gain in helping reduce losses is the fact that they are dumping compact cameras.
That and the fact that they moved the “impairment loss” that occurred because of that out of the Imaging group and into the overall company numbers, which appears to mask half of the group’s loss.
@AMVR
Olympus have had to focus their marketing where they could get the quickest return and bang for their buck.
PENs were originally aimed at camera joshi and a segment of point and shoot up graders, Olympus haven’t managed to successfully pivot the PEN series yet…
I am not surprised, except that there is still so many people with money around in Europe, since we have 30 million unemployed…
Sad to learn that Pen is not doing well, but that was only to be expected not having a built in EVF.
Kind of Kriminal however to sacrifice such a creative design for the me-too OMD. Perhaps I should contemplate Fuji, and it’s jumpy resolution? đ
Petty bourgeois and the uneducated are winning Even in the EU
Exactly. I am pretty sad about PEN but this is just a Japanese marketing they go its initial way till they die. I really do not understand why they can not introduce PEN with a viewfinder ala a rangefinder style camera.
They will miss me … Fuji and others are waiting for use …
The fact that you ignore the GX-7 is typical in this divived country..eh i mean forum.
Oh, the GX7, forgotten completely. If only it didn’t have that ridiculous proboscis, the periscope … đ
> that ridiculous proboscis
After owning it for 3+ month, that’s my only real complain. Makes finding a suitable bag harder. Though since I moved to the larger lenses now (45, 45-150, 12-50) it has stopped being an issue. But as soon as I put 20mm back.. Yes, the EVF protrudes too much.
I really hope they reconsider in the next one, exactly because it spoils the pockets when carrying a pancacke. How could they not see it…
To the casual buyer Pens are perceived as an expensive compact, and it’s clear where that market is heading
“To the casual buyer Pens are perceived as an expensive compact”
Right, and at the same time to the casual bueyer OM-Ds (DLSR shaped bodies) perceived as serious DLSRs.
Remember the Samsung’s funny video when comparing NX300 and fake FF body? Parsers-by expected higher quality from bigger body? This is more sad than funny… thus OMD line in all incarnations have brighter future than the GX-7 or PEN with EVF from sales point of view for Olympus.
And 300 million who are employed. Many of them with very comfortable life styles.
Fear of unemployment will cause some to cut back on discretionary spending like cameras but buying a new camera every few years is a relatively small part of most European families’ annual expenditure.
Olympus imaging might still turn a profit for the full financial year maybe 1-2bn Yen, I think Olympus and Fuji have been the best performers mirrorless wise for 2014, hopefully Panasonic will come back strong for 2014 and possibly Sony…
I think Olympus have made significant gains in mirrorless market share across the world.
In the UK Olympus needs a stronger presence in Argos and Currys bricks and mortar stores not just their online shops.
It´s february…
@Charles
the figures go to December 2013
And still you claim that “…Olympus and Fuji have been the best performers mirrorless wise for 2014”. ;o)
Oops sorry typo meant 2013 doh!
They will not. Even though they never hit their forecasts, they did not forecast a profit for imaging in the current year. ;~)
They also moved their estimates of m4/3 cameras down from the 660k they had originally forecast, and most analysts in Japan believe they need to drop the new estimate, too (I don’t; they could probably move 630k units if they really wanted to, but that might once again move their SG&A costs back up).
By moving impairment losses out of the group (closing of factories, etc.), they also make the group look like it’s doing better than it would look like if treated by itself under GAAP standards.
And how is this any different than the financial shenanigans from Canon, Nikon, and the other Japanese manufacturers? This is not exclusive to Olympus.
True. All the Japanese companies use cloaking on their financials to some degree, which quickly gets seen around by the analysts. Nikon, for example, didn’t exactly point out in the main results that they had a substantial gain from land sales that boosted their profits.
That said, I’m concerned about the trend in the Olympus reporting. We’ve actually heard them make public statements that are immediately taken back in private discussions with reporters and analysts. In the Western countries, such actions would immediately generate shareholder suits and federal agency inquiries.
Its worth remembering almost all manufscturing does somehow no longer happen in ‘the west’.
Seems like a non-sequitur, to me.
For example, most of Apple’s manufacturing takes place in China these days, yet they report using standard GAAP accounting and would be held accountable in the way I noted in my comment. The Japanese use more lax reporting requirements and have more lax overview of what they report, that’s my point.
If you were trying to decide which company to invest your money in, I’d say you’d have an easier time getting to the fundamentals of the Western businesses than the Japanese ones.
Maybe the point was that there are many different ways to do business, and proclaiming one to be superior simply because its easier to understand its results doesn’t look like a good argument at all.
Your Apple example can be countered by hundreds and hundreds of ‘western’ companies that no longer exist and were mainly put out of business by competition from the far east, especially Japan.
Looked at the US car industry in the last few decades? It has a few very nice examples really.
Again, that it is easier to understand the results doesn’t mean the actual results are better, its just easier to see them for what they are.
Thom you are wasting time posting here the combination of burying head in sand and ignoring reality is a standard feature of some of the Olympus fanboys. Considering Olympus have a long history of massaging/lying/defrauding their actual performance everything that comes from them must be taken with a huge pinch of salt.
Transferring and hiding losses is SOP for Olympus, you would think they would have learned that lesson.Though I guess when many of your buyers are innumerate it doesn’t really matter.
About Pen: they should read mor m4/3 rumors… đ
PENs should be pivoted into sharing, fashion, creative(apps), lifestyle cameras with some having full tilt and swivel LCDs…
Olympus could do well to push into video either via lenses or cameras or both…
I am not so comvinced these are good news, frankly. Can someone like T.hogan etc. Comment here instead of this flock of armchair directors of Sales & Mktg?
@z
Hogan has updated his DSLR bodies and sounds quite positive about Olympus(quite positive for Hogan at least)
Although “Even their presentation seems confused on this point: they present the Pen as “mid- and entry-level models,” but then list the OM-D E-M10 as “entry-level model [for] users new to interchangeable lens cameras.” You can’t have it both ways, guys. Which one do you really want to sell to the entry user? ” seems easy to clear up PENs no need for EVFs, more model colour range.
my thoughts:
PENs should come with an Art Filter dial and downloadable art filters, frames, photostory, more duotone options etc and better marketing at it’s target market ie female celebrity endorsement etc…
The problem with Pen is the same problem that Fujifilm is having with X (but curiously, Sony isn’t having with NEX, uh, excuse me, Alpha).
With the E-M10 now undercutting where the E-P5 was in price, the E-P5 doesn’t make sense in the lineup. Then the question becomes whether you can slot other Pens under the E-M10 without an EVF in a market that is still demanding viewfinders. The Panasonic GM1 makes for an entry camera that’s purse-able or pocket-able and grabs the compact-camera style user. Olympus is navigating in very tight space with Pen. I’ll bet there’s realistically only room for one Pen model, and that model is not like any of the existing Pens. Yet if you’re building a line of product, the Pen has to be recognizable as the OM-D little brother, too.
Personally, I’m getting less and less convinced that the “arms out” approach is the right one for high image quality cameras. Even with good IS. Having that third point of contact via a viewfinder is just a much more stable shooting position, and more in tune with the quality level people are seeking. These days, I even use my RX-100II with the optional EVF because of that, though it sucks batteries like crazy.
I’m happy that Olympus has a reasonably rationalized OM-D lineup now, though the menus still really need work. I’m not happy with any of the Pens, and I don’t think they actually provide something that you can’t get elsewhere.
As I wrote in my financial wrap-up: given the CIPA forecast numbers for 2014 (and I think they’re overly optimistic), the ONLY way anyone gains in 2014 is to take market share from someone else. I don’t see the Pens doing that from the small Sonys.
Moreover, here in the US there’s another problem for Pens: where are you going to see one to buy? At the price point the Pens have to be, Olympus has no visible shelf space. Their run away from dealer support means they have very little ability to get back on the shelves at the low price points. So a Pen resurgence would most likely only be in Asia to start with, if they can achieve it.
FWIW, my predictions for the full year for Olympus are 610-620k units of m4/3, and a continued loss in Imaging. Now that Olympus is trying to hide some of the losses in Imaging elsewhere in their financials, I can’t predict the size of the loss. For the coming year, I’d say that even 5% unit volume growth in m4/3 would be very difficult for them to achieve. They’d have to take tens of thousands of units away from someone else to do so.
@Thom Hogan
Not all the market demands viewfinders ( I only use them as back up in case of LCD).
I don’t think Sony’s mirrorless sales have been too pretty the last 14 months.
PENs do have a lot more competition so do need to successfully pivot… Yes, they need to carefully place more PENs in the right bricks and mortar stores in the right markets.
PENs don’t have to be little “brothers” they can be little sisters of the O-MD.
Where exactly do you think Olympus us getting it sales from, do you think they are constantly upgrading from earlier Olympus models?Well that’s mostly NOT the case… Speak to current olympus owners, do some research on flickr and forums…
> I donât think Sonyâs mirrorless sales have been too pretty the last 14 months.
Actually, they’ve done just fine and are the best-selling mirrorless system worldwide. Moreover, they also have significant sales in the markets the others are all complaining about, US and Europe. What’s not doing fine at Sony is the old Alpha DSLRs ;~)
> PENs do have a lot more competition so do need to successfully pivot⌠Yes, they need to carefully place more PENs in the right bricks and mortar stores in the right markets.
But that’s a problem in the US: they’ve been backing away from brick and mortar. Even the dealers that can get the Olympus gear through a distributor tend not to be stocking it now. In Asia they might be okay, but they’ve got a ton of competition there.
> PENs donât have to be little âbrothersâ they can be little sisters of the O-MD.
Ah, the old “women might buy cameras” argument. I’ve not seen any indication or study that shows that this has been a real phenomenon outside Japan and a couple of places in Asia. Also, it’s highly faddish, so you can be successful today and not tomorrow as the fad changes. I’m not sure any of the Japanese consumer electronics companies have shown that they understand fad-type marketing.
> Where exactly do you think Olympus us getting it sales from, do you think they are constantly upgrading from earlier Olympus models?Well thatâs mostly NOT the case⌠Speak to current olympus owners, do some research on flickr and forumsâŚ
I do speak to current Olympus models. Speaking for myself, I can say that ALL of their sales came from upgraders ;~). Still, even if all 630k were new users–and I’ll bet that the “new user” number is half to two-thirds that–it’s not enough new users to get them where they need to be. Their reliance on Japan/Asia is also a big problem in terms of growing that number fast enough to make real changes to interchangeable lens camera sales.
The bottom line is that at the height of the 4/3 DSLR Olympus had a 5-6% market share. Now, despite what they’re claiming is a good year for m4/3, they have less of the market. 630k on 17.1m in sales is a 3.7% market share. As I wrote in my article: to grow in 2014 you have to take market share away from someone else. That means that all the players have the same strategy to “win” and also means that most of them will not win. We can root for Olympus all we want, but the reality of their current position is they were a small player in the 90’s, they were a small player in the 00’s, and they’re currently still a small player. By their own estimate they indicate that they will not grow sales in cameras between now and 2017. Even if they get rid of ALL of their compacts (which they won’t) and that 100b yen was all m4/3, it would still represent a market share of less than 8% in today’s numbers, and before we could count all that 100b as m4/3 cameras, we’d have to take out lenses and digital recorders, which for some reason are still in the Imaging division.
A “win” for Olympus would be to gain modest market share at the same time as making the division profitable. If they can do that, they’ll likely stay in the camera business if for no other reason than the “job for life” aspect of Japanese companies.
@Thom Hogan
“Ah, the old âwomen might buy camerasâ argument. Iâve not seen any indication or study that shows that this has been a real phenomenon outside Japan and a couple of places in Asia.”
As of 2012:
Pinterest 72% female
Twitter 62% female
Facebook 58% female
Instagram 53% female
Flickr 46% female
Eyeem 45% female
deviantART 41% female
And those pictures were taken with what cameras? ;~)
What I meant is simple: women have long been a sub-market in cameras. The typical scenario here in the US is the soccer mom syndrome: kids playing sports trigger a purchase. However, the Japanese companies all launched into a “women are underserved and will buy more cameras” phase. I’ve seen no evidence that any company has had any real success at that. When you look at retail sales numbers here in the US, there isn’t a significant change in sex of purchaser evident, for example.
The camera makers have long been giving lip service to “new user found.” But the statistics show that, apart from emerging countries, cameras are at historic household saturation levels. Finding real new customers is extremely difficult. For the most part, sales are to existing customers of cameras and getting more so.
@Thom Hogan
Sony have lost a lot market share to Olympus in Japan (Oly about to overtake for 3rd place in 2014). In the UK in late 2012 Panasonic and Sony pulled back their marketing and Sony have released very little mirrorless in 2013, Sony was probably was the world mirrorless market leader up until 2012, I would be very surprised if that was still the case.
The USA is a very difficult market to crack because of lower margin, high distribution and marketing costs etc., in the UK the USA is known as “the graveyard of British companies” like many big box retailers in the USA aren’t in good shape.
Olympus seems to be doing well in the European mirrorless market at the expense of Sony, Panny, Canon and Nikon.
“As I wrote in my article: to grow in 2014 you have to take market share away from someone else.” erm no, not if total sales for everyone is failing, if you maintain your sales level while everyone else’s is falling you will grow market share.
Why shouldn’t lenses be in the imaging division????
âAs I wrote in my article: to grow in 2014 you have to take market share away from someone else.â erm no, not if total sales for everyone is failing, if you maintain your sales level while everyone elseâs is falling you will grow market share.
He never said that you have to take sales away from someone else to gain market share; he said that you have to take market share away from someone else.
It’s logically impossible to gain market share without someone else losing it. If you go from, say, 50% to 60% market share, then the sum of the others’ market shares will go down from 50% to 40%. In your scenario, you aren’t taking sales away from your competitors, but you ARE taking market share from them, simply by maintaining sales while the others aren’t.
@Thom Hogan
Sony must be including SLT and RX in the mirrorless figures they are showing you.
Nope.
Do you really believe that a company like Olympus, which does not have a truly broad global presence (dealers, Big Box outlets, nor Brand recognition, etc.) sells more mirrorless cameras than a highly global and recognizable brand like Sony? Actually, put it the other way around: do you actually believe that Sony sold less than 630,000 NEX/A7 cameras last year worldwide? If that were true, I think Sony would be selling their camera group as well as their personal computer group this month.
“Personally, Iâm getting less and less convinced that the âarms outâ approach is the right one for high image quality cameras. Even with good IS. Having that third point of contact via a viewfinder is just a much more stable shooting position, and more in tune with the quality level people are seeking.”
This is something I never see discussed but agree with 100%. For the longest time I was continuously disappointed with the soft IQ of my X-E1. I finally discovered that it was due to either my lack of comfort with the left-side VF or using the LCD with outstretched arms. Never had similar problems with the D600 or E-M1. Now that I am aware of this issue and am focused on ensuring a more stable shooting position this issue with the X-E1 has gone away. I am looking forward to returning to a center VF with the X-T1.
(Sort of) exactly: the GM1 shows which way the PEN line should be going. And since they cannot go smaller than the GM1, what they need to do is to offer higher specs: 5-axis ibis, full manual controls and weather sealing, possibly even hybrid AF (ie top of the line sensor) in a miniature body, possibly coupled with a weather-sealed version of the pancake zoom. That is something that they could sell for the same price or higher than the EM10, giving consumers the choice between an entry level model with an evf and a miniature advanced model without one. In essence, they would have to put the features of the P5 or more(plus weather sealing) into a body smaller than the PM2 and sell it for the price of a PL5/6. Will they do it? If the GM1 sells, they will have to do it, to compete against it (and against the RX100).
Now THAT’S what I call a bad PowerPoint presentation! I think I can see all possible defects of bad information design in there!
no, the only thing saving them is
IBIS…IBIS.. IBIS!
otherwise, theres sony, panasonic with better video
By the way, i guess that these is the meaning of the shapes in the second slide: triangle (bad), circle (good), circle enclosing another circle (very good). I’m not sure, this seems to be usual in Asian companies.
it almost seems like a paradoxial scenario to me: Olympus, lacking some video specs, which are so easy to include, but they too stubborn to do so. And the others, wanting IBIS-5 too, but they just dont have the skills to come up with one.
I don’t think it’s just skills. Having IBIS on larger sensors is tricky, because the sensor weight increases at square the dimension, and the travel distance needed also increases proportionately with dimension. So, double the sensor size means 8 times more energy expended for the same benefit.
I realise the 24×36 sensor’s physical stats , but I believe if Olympus choosed for such sensor format, they would already came up with a suitable solution. But I was also thinking about the smaller sensors, and especially the panasonic ones, if they could come up with a mechanical ibis for video too, they would. But the GH-4 shows they are not ready for it yet.
The heat is the major obstacle for having 5 Axis on larger body, since the sensor is “floating” so you can’t have much stuff on the sensor itself and that include cooling.
I mean Larger Sensor
Probably because the price is so high, they are having a high profit.
Let’s be clear. Olympus states their gross profit margin in cameras as being 44.9%, which would be a very healthy profit. Only problem is, the SG&A costs in order to sell those cameras are 50.6%, which more than eats up the profit margin. SG&A of 50.6% is ridiculously high. I’ve never managed an operation with more than 20%, and I thought that was too high.
Pen cameras are Too expensive, I would like to have an ep5 with a viewfinder in the corner for 650 euros, but who would spend 1000 for the camera and 200 for an ugly viewfinder, when you can get a Nikon d7100 ( of course too big, but still a nice camera) or the Fuji x100s for the same price. Epl5 lacks the manual controls of ep5 or omd, even if it’s cheaper. what the camera makers don’t understand it is more profitable to sell 1 mio cameras with 100 euro profit, than to sell 50000 with 200 euro profit per unit.
> I would like to have an ep5 with a viewfinder in the corner for 650 euros
For 650⏠you might need to wait a bit more. I’d say in 6-12 month GX7 price might just sink to that level.
If they just took the E-M10 and moved the rangefinder to the corner, I’d be happy. That’s $700 w/o lens.
Frankly, though, the Sony A6000 will probably be a pretty significant upgrade in image quality over all these 16MP MFT cameras.
Yes, sensor IQ would surely improve.
Yet, the poor/overpriced (underline yourself) lens catalog doesn’t really help to bring it out. (Neither the NEX’ Mickey-Mouse-UI.)
Sony NEX-6 could have been sooo much more – even at the first iteration. If only Sony was sincere in their effort to build up the system as a whole.
P.S. The UI disaster they could have fixed easily too: simply offer a switch between simpler P&S-upgrader UI and advanced DSLR style UI. Would have worked better too – for everybody.
> it is more profitable to sell 1 mio cameras with 100 euro profit, than to sell 50000 with 200 euro profit per unit.
I fail to see how including a viewfinder would change sales from 50 thousand to 1 Million – times 20, seriously?
I guess an integrated viewfinder could help restore interest in the PEN line – it would certainly do so for me. But then again, the GX7 doesn’t seem to sell very well. So I doubt it would turn the graphs around bigtime.
No – it seems clear to me: OMD is doing remarkably well, and all because this LOOKS like a DSLR replacement, while PEN looks like a compact replacement.
“This helped to cut its imaging business losses by 60%.”
Another way to look at the number: E-M1 is grossly overpriced.
“its imaging division was able to reduce its operating losses”
I think they are talking about normal “losses”, not the “operating losses”. Operating losses are the costs of development/production/sales/etc. Reduction of operating losses can be caused by sell-off/lay-off of the P&S/compact business unit. Reduction of operating losses can NOT be caused by introduction of a new camera.
Yup, It means that they are milking us as much as they can and people buy this nice but overpriced piece of a camera.
If it’s selling well then it’s not overpriced.
Ortherwise low sales would follow and then the price would be cut. If not by Olympus, then by retailers desperately trying to get rid of their unsold stocks.
Olympus put the impairment losses (closing facilities, layoffs, etc.) in the overall company numbers, not the Imaging group. The Imaging group losses are because SG&A expenses are over 50% and their GPM is only about 45%.
SG&A expenses are really holding Olympus back they really need to bring them under control, I’d like to see a break down of them…
Wouldn’t we all? ;~) I’d also like to see the full actual costs associated with the camera group, including the impairment costs, attributed to the camera group, too. I can’t believe, for example, that the medical SG&A is so high that the overall SG&A for the company is as high as it is.
The problem for me and the analysts I talk to that follow Olympus is that we can’t fully believe their financial releases. Those huge losses that were so deftly hidden for so many years before almost bringing down the company are clearly an indication that they aren’t averse to playing “hide and go seek” with numbers. It’s not as if they’re reporting full and straight GAAP results.
If PEN sales aren’t doing well, maybe Olympus should slash the price?!
I’ve been waiting for the E-P5 to drop in price, but it went up instead.. from $799 to $999.
Why pay $999 when you get the E-M5 or the E-M10 for less??
Slashing the price would up the SG&A numbers, which are currently way too high to begin with.
I love cameras…not marketing….. đ
marketing mumbo jumbo is our activity when we out of photographic ideas.
more lens olympus and you will get my money 300mm f4 please
the em1 is nice but not ever one wants omds
hopefuly they will keep the EPMs going my wife uses the epm1 and is looking to up garde soon
one good thing to see is that there is money in MFT so someone will keep it
going even if its just vidoe
I think E-M10 might have the same effect as E-M1, but on the low end of the spectrum. At least Olympus folks seem to think that way.
And the PEN line needs to be reinvented or dropped, no point in going against the consumers. There’s nothing particularly special about those cameras, so in this competitive market you either slash prices or make those cameras stand out from the crowd. I think that with the nice pancake zoom from E-M10, Olympus might have a shot at the miniature camera segment. Right now Panasonic GM1 does not have any competition, and as far as I can see, it got a very positive reaction (no idea if that translated to sales, thought).
Anybody with half a brain would see that the conclusion from Amateur Photographer must be wrong (seriously, how many units need to be sold to get such a difference? Then there are R&D costs and stuff that doesn’t come for free either). A high end product never moves much in terms of volume and it’s hardly ever the main source of income in any industry.
Do people seriously believe that that mysterious Amazon “bestsellers” ranking reflects reality in any meaningful way? Samsung 2nd most bought mirrorless? OMD and X-T1 3rd and fourth selling more than the Panasonic G series? And better yet: Pentax Q at 20.?
The graphs show sales in Bn yen. It would be interesting to see number of units shipped.
– These results show that Olmypus strategy of high end high margin products is paying off. To me it’s very similar to what Apple does with the Iphone. Then the lower end/mid-end models can be funded (which tend to create losses for high tech manufacturing companies) to gain market share.
-Much depends on the will of the consumers who people who buy the top end products. Will they upgrade the next time the new OMD-EM x come out?
-Canon/Nikon have always used this strategy sell high end equipment 1dxx etc to “pro users”
-Financially this strategy may be more difficult when small more mirror less FF cameras hit the market. currently only Sony has a decent a7 model, but I suspect other manufacturers will soon follow. I note that a Em1 costs as much as a Sony A7. I suspect the next Sony A7 and Samsung FF will be better than the current A7 and probably cost the same as the OMD Em1 replacement. At this point it will be hard to sell an EM x camera at these margins. I don’t think the Sony A7 was enthusiastically reviewed, it will take perhaps the next generation to gain a market foothold and this is the gap the EM1 seems to be exploiting.
Olympus strategy doesn’t just depend on people upgrading within Olympus mirrorless, many people are switching from DSLR or in addition to their DSLR.
Olympus can also make money from lenses, licensing technology eg 5 axis stablisation and licensing products eg Panasonic flashes
If they ever license 5 axis that’ll be like shooting their own foot.
Better to license and make some money than have competitors make their own versions…
> Many are switching from a DSLR
Let’s see, best case is that Olympus sells something like 350,000 OM-Ds in this year. That’s best case, and based upon their numbers, not mine. Meanwhile, Canon and Nikon are selling over 12,000,000 DSLRs in that same period. So your definition of “many” leaves a lot to be desired. I don’t believe I’ve ever seen “many” defined as “fewer than 3%” before.
No doubt there are people that are opting for a mirrorless camera instead of a DSLR. These folk seem to be very vocal, almost as if they need validation. I would point out that I’ve been supplementing my DSLR with mirrorless for almost five years now. But an E-M1 isn’t going to replace my D800 any time soon (though a Sony A7r has more of a chance).
I happen to like my E-M1 for certain tasks and situations. It’s a great camera. But frankly, there are a lot of great cameras on the market now. The competition is as extreme as it has ever been. Olympus has a shot at growing that, though I note that their forecasts for camera sales in 2017 (see Appendix of results) are actually slightly lower than their current camera sales ;~).
I can only second that. My wife and I have a 50/50 split in EM1 and D610. The EM1 is great and enough for all casual and most demanding situations, but I still prefer the bulk when shooting longer periods and having the possibility to do a lot more in post.
I don’t want to miss both and as I stated before, for me the OMD is the smallest camera size still comfortably to use, its almost too small for me for longer stretches of shooting as the hand grip is simply not deep enough for my fingers.
The market demands low prizes for the masses. I tried so hard convincing friends and family to switch to better mirror less models, they find them too expensive and prefer a camera like the Nikon D5200 or Canon 700D. Either they want it simple (point and shoot/smartphone) or don’t want to fiddle with small buttons.
@Thom Hogan
Well break it out, who do you think is buying these 350,000 O-MDs this year????
Considering that only 100k of them are E-M5’s, I would guess that a lot of folk did what I did and upgraded to an E-M1, keeping their E-M5 as a backup body.
It’s a good question, though–and not just for m4/3 cameras but for all interchangeable lens cameras–and I’ve been talking with a big player about how we might try to measure how much is “new” versus “replacement.” Unfortunately, I probably wouldn’t have a big enough sample to keep any bias from showing if I survey off my site. But this outfit is big enough to do it right via real n-sampling of the total market.
@Thom Hogan
can easily be done via Flickr…
No it can’t. And saying it can be shown by examining Flickr stats indicates that you don’t know much about statistics and how sampling must be done to predict to a population.
“I donât believe Iâve ever seen âmanyâ defined as âfewer than 3%â before.”
I’m pretty sure you’d regard getting 0.03% of the USA national debt as ‘many dollars’ still.
Defining something as ‘many’ depends on what ‘standard’ you are comparing to, and looking at it as how small a fraction of the whole this is is merely one way of looking at it.
Or put differently, if you need to sell 10 items to make a profit, have been selling 5 so far and manage to increase this to 20, then you’ll certainly regard 20 as ‘many’ even if its merely a tiny fraction of the entire market.
The basic problem with every analysis that you post here is that they are based on ‘market share’ being the primary indicator of success, while it really isn’t, its merely one of the many factors that determine a possible future outlook for a company.
Consequently, 3% market share can still mean selling many cameras.
Okay. Let’s put it in context, if you want. How many m4/3 cameras did Olympus sell the previous year? Now last year?
Olympus’ own presentation says that they gained 5% in mirrorless camera sales year-to-year, though this is expressed in yen, not units. Given that the mix of cameras that are selling now are higher priced than those of last year, they may actually have either flat or slightly declining unit volume. So “many” has very little meaning in context. Even if all 350,000 OM-D camera sales this year were the result of DSLR users switching to m4/3, that would be an absolute indictment of PREVIOUS m4/3 sales, as it would mean that none upgraded to OM-D.
The problem here is that Olympus already defined “many.” They’ve said publicly they need 1m units for m4/3 to be profitable. They are currently at 630,000 (if they hit their estimate). Even if they get those other 370,000 folk, that still leaves them a niche player. Olympus is executing the same strategy they did with film cameras, and it will likely have the same results: niche, marginally profitable, highly vulnerable to disruption.
@Thom
I responded to a VERY SPECIFIC statement you made which I also quoted explicitly, I’ll repeat it:
âI donât believe Iâve ever seen âmanyâ defined as âfewer than 3%â before.â
Now, the “I’ve ever seen” part clearly takes away any kind of context from that statement, and as such, your statement is nonsense. Careless wording? I suppose so.
Olympus didn’t break out units shipped for the quarter, though they lowered their overall estimate for the year by 30,000 units just a few months after making it ;~). Currently Olympus forecasts that they’ll sell 630,000 m4/3 cameras from April 1, 2013 through March 31, 2014. I should also note that that 630k is heavily weighted to the final two quarters (the one just reported plus the one we’re in).
lens i would buy if olympus made them
300mm f4 weather seald
180mm f2.8 micro weather seald
14-150mmm f2.8 inteanl zoom weather seald (it would be big make that huge and cost a lot but i would buy one)
7-20mm weather seald
12mm tilt and shift
that just me
EP5 is a very good camera, PEN is not going well in Europa. That’s why no E-PL6 in Europa but Japan only? It will be sad if Olympus don’t plan next EP anymore.
How about GX7 sells?
Strikes me that they can redress finances, with top of the line, 1500 credits cameras, of which thet should sell smaller numbers.
If true that bodes of the devastation smart phones are still bringing to an ordinary camera line. There is room either for cheap and large numbers or ultra expensive. So we are still on a rollercoaster. And a bubble economy.
Keep in mind that despite $$$ and ‘Pro’ labels Olympus is not really offering Pro service like Canon & Nikon. Oly is Pro only if people are willing to ignore the jumble of their menus and of the main wheel, for instance.
Note that Olympus’ current Imaging sales are expected to come in at 107b yen for the year with a loss that’ll probably be above 5b yen. Their forecast for 2017 is 100b yen with a 9b yen profit. So in essence they seem to be saying “we’ll be happy with flat sales if we can cut costs.” Okay, seems like a reasonable goal. But it’s not the “camera world domination” goal that a lot of folk posting here seem to think they do or should have. Even if ALL of that 100b yen in 2017 is OM-D bodies, the implication is a bit over a million units annually, or 1/12th of where Canon/Nikon are today.
@Thom Hogan
You should be comparing Olympus 2017 projections with Canon and Nikon’s 2017 projections or yours of canikon
To my knowledge, Nikon hasn’t done a sales projection for 2017. Olympus, on the other hand, keeps issuing these pull-it-out-their-tail-end projections and estimates, virtually none of which they ever meet. They can’t even forecast out into the next year well.
However, the fact that they are willing to say to the world that “we won’t grow our camera sales over the next three years” seems to indicate that they’re not shooting for anything other than a small piece of the market. Not that I think that any of us would believe that they have a chance at a big piece of the market. Canon and Nikon simply can’t allow that, and Sony wants whatever other piece that Canon and Nikon will allow.
@Thom Hogan
Nikon has made and will continue to make a horrendous amount of mistakes over the last 3 years, their financial results in April won’t look too pretty, which is reflected in their current share price…
You continue to make non-sequitor responses.
I’ve never said Nikon doesn’t make mistakes. If you actually read my Web site, you’ll find I’ve documented a litany of mistakes for over 15 years. But that nor the final fiscal year report have anything to do with 2017’s numbers. Nikon hasn’t issued a number for that far out that I know of, Olympus has. And Olympus’s numbers for the next three years are flat sales, flat sales, flat sales. No sales gain in three future years. And this is from a company that has not hit their estimates for a long, long time.
If you want to get out of a hole, the first thing you need to do is stop digging in deeper. That’s what it appears the Imaging Division has done. And considering they’ve been digging this hole for at least the last five years, it’s no small accomplishment. Also note that it’s sales PLUS restructuring. So it’s a multi-faceted approach. If we see the losses continue to diminish through 2014, then I would call it a trend.
Panasonic has boxed in the Pen line with the GX-7 and GM-1. My guess is Oly will go small and simple with varied colors, and market it in the Pacific Rim and South Asia/India. I don’t think Pens have much of a future in Europe and North America. They haven’t shown any interest in a built in EVF, so they may concede that part of the market to Pany. And, as has been noted, an E-M10 with collapsible zoom is coat pocket transportable. Frankly, the Stylus 1 isn’t a bad alternative at that level.
There’s synergy in the Pany/Oly approach. Competitors to be sure, but the success of both helps both. And a healthy Fuji is a good thing, as well.
IMO this is all a matter of poor marketing strategy.
The true dilemma for Olympus (and any other company out there ) is the way the market is shifting because of smartphones. The market has been divided into two easily recognizable groups:
– Casual consumers that have no interest in photography (smartphone crowd) and just take casual pics now and then
– Photography hobbyists who need an actual camera
Before phones had cameras these two groups were united in one big group of consumers. If you wanted to take a picture you absolutely NEEDED a camera, but that’s not the case anymore. People can just reach their pocket and take a pic at anytime, there’s no need for a camera anymore, unless you want to get into photography more seriously.
Eliminating the PEN line would be an enormous mistake because that’s the only bridge connecting to beginners. Olympus needs to redesign the E-PM line into a GM1 competitor and sell it for CHEAP. They need to focus on the social networking aspect of their cameras as well. Make the PEN line as convenient as a smartphone for people, otherwise there’s no chance to attract new consumers.
Since we are all experts here and smarter than the best minds in Oly corp I’ll put in my 2 cents worth. Stop blowing money away on marketing p&s mirrorless cams by cutting epl and epm lines, strip the ep5 of 5 axis ibis and other expensive bits and make it the cheap entry cam without viewfinder. Push the OMD line plus cheap ep5 and stick to the KISS principal.
@Andy
Stripping the PEN line of features would remove value even at reduced prices in the eyes of consumers same mistake was made with Nikon 1.
My ideas for PEN:
PEN art filter and social
PEN tough/go pro
PEN child and/or teen
PEN night (illuminated buttons)
Pen “Social” was what they announced and used in their ad campaign with the E-P1. Funny how people don’t remember that.
Pen Tough would be equivalent to a Nikon AW1 ;~)
Pen Child/Teen begs the question of why a child or teen needs a better camera than they have in their phone.
Pen Night is just outright silly, as the user problem being solved isn’t the problem I hear any users complaining about.
Of those ideas, social is the only one that’s worth exploring. However, social is virtually all software dependent, not hardware. I’m not sure that Olympus has the ability to open up the software side the way it would need to be for this to work, and it would likely cause more SG&A expenses to do right.
Ditto, Tom is 100% right on this one.
PEN art filter and social: that’s something which ALL Oly cameras should have
PEN tough/go pro: Why not make the E-P5 weather sealed, like an OMD with a different form factor.
PEN child and/or teen: WTH is that ? What kind of child is looking to get a proper camera nowadays (or ever)?
PEN night (illuminated buttons): Again, WTH is that? how does illuminated buttons make it a whole new line of pen ?
What you have described are just features, not camera tiers. Olympus should stick to the existing 3 tier system but redefine each camera’s targeted segment:
– E-PMX: Redefined to match the GM1 but it should be accessible and cheaper than entry level DSLR, advertise it as a smartphone upgrade/replacement (integrate social functions), 2 axis IBIS, no EVF
– E-PLX: Make it the PEN equivalent of the E-M10 i.e. bare minimum manual controls and 3 axis. No EVF
– E-PX: FOR GOD’S SAKE PUT AN EVF IN IT!!! The E-P should be the PEN equivalent to the E-M5 but in a different type of body. Why should Olympus offer an equivalent camera in different chassis to the EM5 ? Because of the Fuji X100s, XE-2, XP1, Nex 6, Nex 7, Pany GX7, etc…this market segment has been successfully exploited for a LONG time by every other mirrorless company and Oly is the only one that hasn’t, the E-P5 was clearly not competitive and the sales reflect that. That’s just ridiculous. Not everyone wants to deal with a centered hump otherwise those other companpies would’ve offered SLR-looking cameras since the beginning. No EVF in the top PEN is a HUGE mistake that’s been around for too long.
Olympus should take the opportunity of having two different m43 lines of cameras and approach the market in the most reasonable way possible:
– PEN: Accessible mirrorless. low margin profit sales, mass market reach. 3 tier range of cameras with distinct levels of features:
– Low end
– Mid tier
– High end
– OMD: High profit margin. Enthusiast and pro oriented features: 3 tier range of cameras with distinct levels of features:
– Mid tier
– High end
– Pro tier
And @Andy
Eliminating the EPM and EPL lines would be a huge mistake, Olympus (and Pany) needs to expand its reach and consolidate its base in the market, and the high end is not the way to do so, limiting m43 only to the high end means that you’ll soon satisfy the VERY few people in that segment and then there’ll be no one to sell the high end stuff to anymore. M43 needs people to get into the low end in order to sell those people the high end products later on. High end cameras like the EM1 are less likely to get replaced by consumers in the short term, whereas an EPM or EPL user is more likely to upgrade to higher end cameras.
Olympus has been very succesfull in promoting the OMD line (on the web) but they have horribly neglected the PEN like for way too long, that’s why there are poor sales. If no one even knows about the PENs how are we to expect people to buy them in the first place? m43’s problem has one name and one name only, and it’s ADVERTISING!
No. That’s too many cameras for where they are now, and it has the additional problem of potentially making the sale too far down their lineup.
Based upon the numbers Olympus presented this year, the E-P5 was a failure, and the other Pens have declining volume, as well. Most of the lower end product would need to be sold at dealers and Big Box anyway, and Olympus just doesn’t have the worldwide presence there to support a large line of Pens. One or two at most, I would think. And they have to be competitive with the A5000 and GM1 and X-A1/X-M1 and Nikon 1’s, etc. I just don’t think Olympus has the marketing clout and shelf presence to do that. Moving to the three OM-Ds and trying to move upscale is their best bet at the moment. Supplement that with one great lower-end camera.
They need 2 PENs really:
– a ‘standard’ PEN, somewhat of a hybrid between current E-PL and E-P models, aiming at the typical ‘upgrader’ and with an attractive price/feature compromise as its main selling point.
– a ‘mini’ PEN aimed primarily at being as small as possible
I’ll buy that reduced lineup. It’s a tricky space Olympus is in. On the one hand you want more products to share costs over and to show shelf presence in a store, but when you’re a smaller, niche-type player you also need to be highly focused and not too duplicative (hmm, is that a word?). There’s a balance point somewhere in that, and four or five m4/3 cameras is probably it.
@Thom Hogan
PEN social and art filters would have an art filter only dial, other dials could be assigned to photostory and frames, social would be auto uploading to web and cameras could be connected to each other eg at a party you could see what photos your friends were shooting, you would also be able to add captions etc and download more frames, photostory and art filters…
@PEN tough
I suggested it previously before AW1 launch, I’m thinking more like the Olympus tough with interchangeable lenses and accessories like go-pro
PEN child/teen
Your 8 year old son/12 year old daughter / 15 year old grandaughter asks you for a camera what do you buy them?
PEN night
You are in a nightclub, party or you do a lot of low light photography you can’t make out the buttons…
Actually a lot of folks were surprised that the E-M1 didn’t have illuminated buttons like the Olympus E-620
I used to get paid to think about problems like this (sometimes still do on short contracts):
> PEN social and art filters would have an art filter only dial, other dials could be assigned to photostory and frames, social would be auto uploading to web and cameras could be connected to each other eg at a party you could see what photos your friends were shooting, you would also be able to add captions etc and download more frames, photostory and art filtersâŚ
So a camera basically like a GM1 ;~). The problem is this still gets mostly controlled by the smartphone. For this type of truly social (party) picture, the smartphone is working just fine, thank you. It’s a tough marketing sell to make them buy something else, juggle it, to get what, Instagram-type photos? Not going to happen this way. Moreover, everyone’s trying that approach (share to the smartphone, let the smartphone do the heavy lifting), so it’s not like you get any space to yourself. You’re marketing against all the other players still.
> @PEN tough
I suggested it previously before AW1 launch, Iâm thinking more like the Olympus tough with interchangeable lenses and accessories like go-pro
Why not just stick an m4/3 sensor in the Tough, then? Better approach, in my mind. The problem is that if you do it the way Nikon did it, you end up having to remake all of your lenses, and they’ll be bigger, heavier, and more troublesome to change (try changing an AW1 lens after flying ;~) I learned to keep the lens off).
> PEN child/teen
Your 8 year old son/12 year old daughter / 15 year old grandaughter asks you for a camera what do you buy them?
You’re making the assumption that they’re asking for a separate camera. They’re far more likely to ask for a new and better phone, which has a better camera. This is what they are learning on, it’s what they want to continue using. As I’ve pointed out time and again, if I have to get my phone out and do things on it to have the photos get over there and go to the right places, you haven’t solved my problem. The day the phone can stay in the pocket and you can control from the camera what happens, we’ll have the thing you can sell the smartphone users.
> PEN night
You are in a nightclub, party or you do a lot of low light photography you canât make out the buttonsâŚ
You know, in all the time I’ve had my D4 with its illuminated buttons, they’ve proven useful never. The buttons you should be hitting most of the time should be second nature (well designed ergonomics that don’t move from camera to camera ;~).
One of the things that Fujifilm found out when they targeted “low light cameras” back in the mid-00’s was that most people didn’t give darned, they just expected a flash to pop up and the camera to do the iAuto thing and everything would be fine. Despite the fact that Fujifilm was doing some things that were superior to the competitors (truly balanced flash options, for instance), had better high ISO capability at the time, and more, even with lots of fairly direct marketing they couldn’t sell those cameras the way they thought. It was a real surprise to Fujifilm, and I was a little non-plussed as well as I was one who had suggested that they call out the three or four unique low light features in their ads. Just didn’t work.
I googled Thom Hogan. Not a typical forum geek! Instead of putting so much time into forum chats why don’t you try doing a mutually beneficial collaboration with a rumors site like Rico and Patrick have done on fujirumors? It could be good for you, the rumors site and us rumor geeks.
@Andy
tempted…
@thom Hogan
PEN social and Art filter – nothing like the GM1, do you misunderstand what I said clearly or the GM1?
PEN tough- yes just stick a MFT sensor in the Olympus TG-2 but make it have new MFT lenses (they wouldn’t have to be ultra high quality glass or made of metal) with various bundles available.
PEN child/teen – no kids do ask for their own cameras, like mummy’s or daddy’s or grandpa’s, even kids understand using a smartphone is the not the same and do you want your kid pestering you to use your smartphone as a camera? Also you can say to them once they get good they can borrow mum and dad’s lenses. These type of MFT cameras could come with body cap lenses,simpler menus, bigger buttons and less prone to breakage…
PEN night – their is a lot more low light photography than 20 years ago and we are now a 24 hour society, using the E620 with illuminated buttons is a good experience and would be even better with today’s Micro Four Thirds cameras…
We often make the mistake of making our analysis based on these Amazon figures for mirrorless sales in the US forgetting that 43% of the mirrorless market is in Japan, 32% in Asia and only 9% in the US and 12% in Europe! Furthermore these Amazon figures do not include the much larger DSLR sales only mirrorless. Thus the # 6 ranking for EM1 and #7 for GM1 might be closer to #80 when adding DSLRs into the picture.
If you look at DSLR + mirrorless sales in Japan from all sources you will see the EM1 is currently ranked #56 while 4 Pen models EPL6 and EPL5 ranked from 16 to 47 above it and GM1 with 4 models ranked #26 to 70 and GF6 #24 and 50! Looking at these sales rankings from Japan one would have to conclude the EM1 and EM5 before it have not been setting records in either Japan or likely Asia even if were more popular here and in Europe. So as one posted noted the profits more likely to be coming not from the top model which costs a lot to develop but profit margins are greater but from the middle ones where the R&D has already been recovered? However I applaud both Oly for their EM1 and Pany for developing the GH4.
Right now the NEXs especially the NEX5T with 2 lenses are surging in sales in Japan inspite of the size of its lenses. I would hope both Pany and Oly will place their very compact pancake zooms as std kits on more of their models. Yes hard to make logical sense as buyers seem to be over reacting to sales or anything new.
A 25.5 million dollar loss is something to be celebrated? This is getting desperate. I’d give Olympus camera division 5 years before it gets bought out by Sony. Micro four thirds was never gonna work – pay more for less. Unlike full frame which will always be around.
So you expect smartphone upgraders to jump straight into FF ? PFF LOL! What about people complementing or even replacing their DSLR with m43 ? should they go to an even bigger and bulkier (and expensive) FF camera ? You trolls have no analytic skills whatsoever…FF is not the panacea of photography, is not a solution for every person looking for a camera, no one, NO ONE is ever looking to get a FF camera the minute they realize their P&S or smartphone is crap (much less nowadays when photos are shared at low res on facebook or instagram). You and the other 3 trolls that come here evangelizing about FF are delusional about gear you clearly don’t own and no clue about photography at all.
Besides, Oly is not the only company in this situation, practically everyone else is in the same hole, the fact that they’ve reduced lost to such an extent is a miracle in today’s economy. And by all accounts Oly is supposed to be NÂş1 mirrorless manufacturer in Japan, I wouldn’t call that a failure at all, if this trend keeps up Oly should be profitable in the short term, and that’s good for the whole industry.
I guess he haven’t seen how Sony loss Billion and have to shut down PC business to survive.
Panasonic and Olympus is doing rather well this year in terms of finance, Panasonic’s rating got upgraded while Sony just being downgraded to “junk” by Moody
The OMD didn’t save Olympus, it just makes it losses look lesser of a problem.
Olympus imaging division hasn’t made a profit for YEARS now, this just continues the trend. A loss is still a loss, no matter how many OMD’s they’ve sold.
Yet the Chairman each year says that Olympus will make a profit this fiscal year, only to be followed by Olympus PR, a few days later, telling the press, “No we won’t”.
I give Olympus and M43 as a whole, less than three years to make a turn around and stop losing market share In Mirrorless. With Sony taking over and Fuji creating buzz (Say what you want, but EVERYBODY is hyped over the X-T1), I just see bleak times for M43.
MrALLCRAP – don’t you get it? No one here gives a damn what you think. You need us, we don’t need you.
Yes indeed why would anyone want to listen to a dissenting voice whose predictions are in all likelihood more probable than Olympus pie in the sky lies. Lucky for you their are several mathematically retarded posters who will see things your way đ
Olympus never depended on its camera business to make a profit. It’s always been an incubator for medical and scientific imaging technologies, its main line of business. This business model might make little sense to westerners, but in Japan companies routinely run unprofitable divisions in order to bolster research and development for other products.
Will they ever turn a profit in cameras? Maybe. Is it their strategy? That’s what’s uncertain here.
For now, they make great cameras and lenses and have announced plans to continue to do so into 2015, so I don’t think Olympus users have any reason to be worried about market share.
It’s funny…people were having this same argument about Linux years ago. Whether its lack of market share would kill it off. Obsession with market share/profits is bad for you as a consumer because it means you might be making your purchasing decision based on a statistic that actually makes no difference to your user experience at all.
Apple has run low market share numbers for years in the mac department. That doesn’t mean it makes any sense to kill the mac, nor does it mean that they aren’t making a great product. It’s just another statistic that gives little insight into anything that actually affects the consumer.
I’m starting to think it’s an American thing…wanting to sum a product up with a single number. American cars were all about cid for years…people just bought the biggest motor they could afford and to heck with the rest of the car. Seems ridiculous now but Americans are still obsessed with size, be it sensor size, zoom length, megapixels. These are all metrics that drive sales which in the end mean much less than you’d think. Quality…it’s un-American.
> Sony have lost a lot market share to Olympus in Japan (Oly about to overtake for 3rd place in 2014).
You have a tendency to make statements about numbers and then not show them. Also to use numbers that don’t actually answer the question. I only have the preliminary BCN numbers from 2012 and 2013 handy at the moment, but here they are:
2012: Olympus 29.8%, Sony 20%
2013: Olympus 29.1%, Sony 26.4%
What market share did Sony lose to Olympus?
> Sony was probably was the world mirrorless market leader up until 2012, I would be very surprised if that was still the case.
Then you’ll be surprised.
> âAs I wrote in my article: to grow in 2014 you have to take market share away from someone else.â erm no, not if total sales for everyone is failing, if you maintain your sales level while everyone elseâs is falling you will grow market share.
Please read what I wrote when you’re not drunk. You have basically just restated what I wrote, so I don’t get the “erm no” part. I wrote nothing about unit volume (or average price), I only wrote about market share. Maintaining sales while others are losing sales would be gaining market share. Exactly what I wrote: you have to take market share away from someone else. If you’re maintaining unit sales and all the others aren’t, then you must be doing something right that the others are not.
> Why shouldnât lenses be in the imaging division????
Never said they shouldn’t be. Not sure why digital recorders are. But as usual, you miss a point: Olympus has said that one of the ways they’re trying to boost sales is to sell more lenses. That’s fine. But it’s not the sale of more cameras, which they also need.
@Thom Hogan
for 2013 in Japan:
Canon 33.18%
Nikon 29.20%
Sony 12.44%
Olympus 11.67%
Ricoh 7.04%
Panasonic 5.69%
thank you…
Unfortunately my response got moved away from the post you made. You wrote: “Sony have lost a lot market share to Olympus in Japan.” I took this to mean mirrorless, which is why my response is as it was. You then have replied with total interchangeable lens camera shares in Japan, which includes DSLRs. Sony did abysmal with DSLRs last year, especially in Japan, but also in the US and other places. I haven’t been quite about that: I think they’re blowing it by trying to keep four lens types active (DSLR full, DSLR crop, mirrorless full, mirrorless crop). Essentially they’re competing with themselves. And in mirrorless, they’re doing a good job of that ;~).
Essentially, Sony is in the same position as Olympus was when they had 4/3 and m4/3, and I think that the eventual answer will be the same: drop the DSLR.
But in terms of market share for mirrorless, Sony gained and Olympus lost. That was my point. Moreover, we haven’t yet seen the full impact of the A7 models, either, as we only had one month when they were on sale.
@Thom Hogan
The only countries I was seeing Sony mirrorless as market leaders was in Canada and the USA and doing well in East Asia until 2012, in 2013 they pulled they’re mirrorless marketing right back,their was a lack of new models and much less shelf space for Sony mirrorless.
I also keep an eye out on rankings on various European online camera selling websites (not Amazon) and it looked like Panasonic was ahead of Sony with Olympus in 3rd, those same website are showing Olympus, Fuji and Panasonic ahead of Sony ( not that the Nikon 1 and EOS M blip has gone) in mirrorless.
Without seeing the actual numbers you claim to be looking at, I can’t comment. However, generally looking at rankings on sales sites isn’t something I’d ever be putting much credence on. Too many sites, including some really big names, have a vested interest in gaming the numbers. Moreover, they usually don’t correlate them up (body only, body + kit lens, body + multiple lenses, colors of body, etc.). That’s why I look at correlated cash register receipts from an independent party with no vested interest. Even that can be a bit wrong if they leave out any significant outlet. For instance, in Japan, those BCN numbers only reflect about half the Japanese sales outlets, and there’s at least one significant outlet they don’t correlate.
Excellent, Olympus operating losses are declining at a slower rate, pop the champas….
It’s kind of obvious, they have been losing money on each sale, so now overall number of sales are down they’re losing less money.
Saying that the E-M1 “helped” achieve a change in Olympus sales figures, whilst technically correct is guilting the Lilly somewhat as the cheaper Pen models have historically outsold the OMD range by around 4:1. The 2013 sales figures, whilst not having the E-M1 do bare this out for the previous OMD. http://bcnranking.jp/news/1312/131227_27056.html
Oh and that commenter who thinks Fuji X is going to put M43 out of business you must be kidding. Fuji X are great cameras but their niche market is tiny, total sales for all X system cameras combined hit 700,000 in Nov 2013, and one Pen model can beat that.
Be careful. Both Fujifilm and Olympus are niche players. And Fujifilm’s growth curve is actually fairly significant while Olympus’ is much more modest. So they may be closer than you think by the end of the year if current trends continue.
And by the way, the current best selling Olympus m4/3 body sells about 200,000 units a year. So it’s not a high target that’s unreachable by other players.