Most of you will agree with me when I say the [shoplink 31284]Olympus 75mm f/1.8[/shoplink] is the best MFT lens yet. But has it been really designed by Olympus? Egami (translation here) spotted a Sigma patent describing exactly the 75mm lens. And by comparing the lens design images I posted on top it’s easy to guess that the lens has been indeed designed by Sigma!
I am really surprised to see that, and I am wondering what this Sigma-Olympus partnership will bring us in future. My secret hope is that Sigma will also share the Foveon tech 🙂
P.S.: Store links to the Olympus 75mm lens: [shopcountry 31284].
105 Responses
No surprise. Oly used the 70-300 Sigma design in the past (even let Sigma make it, I think). We all have to wake up to the fact that Sigma designs the greatest lenses around.
Exactly right. That’s the first lens that came t mind as well and that lens is how many years old now?
http://www.wrotniak.net/photo/43/zd-070-300.html
+1, and the 18-180 FT-lens was also a Sigma design if I remember correctly. There are lots of things like this going on, several Sony lenses are for instance designed and made by Tamron.
plus pentax has lenses designed by tokina, all around.
What’s important to me is that Olympus will bring the best parts/products to its users, whoever designed or made it, e.g. the sensor in the OM-D, the VF-4 EVF, this 75mm lens, the 5-axis IBIS, and whatever that is really good. Olympus may be just an integrator, but that’s fine with me.
Having studied business administration a little, I can tell you that a brand is indeed often not representative of a company with a few factories producing everything. Nowadays, all manufacturing is one big network of interdependent suppliers and integrators operating as competing partners/shareholders.
It’s not very romantic (like the image of Barnack in his workshop), but at least it keeps prices low!
They’ve designed some of the worst lenses also. Price point doesn’t seem to matter when you’re under US$1000 with them. It’s just luck of the draw, but they’re much better lately.
If the 75mm is a Sigma design, then I say Olympus should have Sigma design all their lenses! Clearly, Sigma does a better job than Olympus can do. In most cases, where Olympus and Panasonic have the “same” lens available, the Panasonic lens always tests better than the Olympus. There are some very good Olympus lenses, like the 75mm and the 12mm f2.0, but maybe that one was designed by someone else also. Olympus designed some great lenses for 4/3, but I think most of their m4/3 lenses are mediocre. So, Olympus, just give it up and have Sigma do all the work and you just slap your name on it. You can make profit by selling the expensive lens hoods that should be included with the lens to begin with.
Doesn’t surprise me and I presume there are many more lenses not designed by their logo corporation. Sigma has been designing lenses for “big” companies for ages. Nothing new and this doesn’t mean that Oly and Sigma are in some serious partnership. Sigma is just subcontractor.
sigma as provider.
“Doesn’t surprise me and I presume there are many more lenses not designed by their logo corporation.”
+1, my thoughts precisely.
This is pretty typical for consumer electronics manufacturers to subcontract design, engineering, testing, manufacturing, QA and support to each other.
Resource usage optimization – but they try to keep it secret, due to branding and all.
Very interesting, I wonder what else Sigma have designed/will design? Something to ponder….
Who cares? They probably use the same optical design software anyway.
regarding optical design software– a guy I work with likes to say, “just because I have a word processor doesn’t mean I can write a great novel.” The design software is a tool, like a calculator or a word processor. There’s still tremendous skill and insight required to produce great lenses.
Admin, at first it was really cute that you are in love with Foveon technology but it’s been too long 😀 I remember myself being a student and seeing the first commercial for it, but as I got more information about it, everything shows it’s a past technology and nobody is going to implement it in the near future, specially, then Olympus gets their sensors from Sony and you yourself posted a rumor about next generation sensor from Sony which probably find it’s way to the OMD someday eventually.
Foveon sux at the time being except at low-ISO.
I’d be rather happier with a new, weather resistant 300/2.8 or even longer; rumors say there will be 400 and 600 f/4 by Sigma in the near future but yes, I know – these will never be available in FT or µFT mount.
I shoot Foveon and would love to see a Sigma m43 camera. No reason why that wouldn’t happen, so admin is not saying silly things.
At ISO 100-200, Foveon is simply incredible when used properly. The newest bodies are much more able with higher iso than a few years ago, but with 3 layers you have to accept a downside. iso 800 in b+w is a nice poor man’s Leica M.
Finally, it appears other companies are working on similar tech, so the concept of “real pixels” (as opposed to fabricated Bayer fantasy) may come from other than Foveon.
+1
…and how many people would buy that camera? I am 100% sure that with this sensor you could not shoot video since it would just overheat very fast and the processor should very very mighty, if not two of them to hold that kind of information and be able to shoot at least 6 fps, which is still not that good if you compare with other brands. Of course, I am talking here about what would Olympus do with that kind of sensor technology, so I can’t really know the end result but so does Olympus, since company (well, image division) is not in their prime, so that kind of research would cost a lot of money and it would take a hard left turn from the main road that it is going at this moment. Everybody who googled Sigma DSLR knows the big noise problem with higher ISO, so why would Olympus go step back with it? They already were made fun of being behind in that area, also, foveon would mean different size sensor, so it would have to become smaller which maybe better for noise performance but the hall converting part would be very expensive, which Olympus can’t and won’t buy. You can name all the good things about Foveon but you will just bump into simple facts – it won’t happen… EVER
We are not talking about that. The topic at hand is a SIGMA m43 body with a Foveon sensor. Sigma sells (a lot) of high-end compacts (DP) and DSLR (SD) cameras. There is no technical reason why the should not develop a mirrorless m43 body. They have all the know-how, so there is a definite chance it will happen. We can assume this plan has been researched at Sigma.
This is why it’s a relevant topic. Anybody who shoots both Foveon and m43 dreams of such a body; it’s a superior alternative to Sigma SD body + lenses. All the rest you wrote is not really relevant in that context, sorry! 🙂
@admin: Your title sentence is missing the verb. “Been” probably”!
Sigma has designed some excellent lenses of late, 35mm F1.4 and 18-35mm F1.8 for example, so this is no surprise. My secret hope is that they will also make a fast zoom for m4/3 ( they plan to make one for FF ).
My mate has the 18-35 used on a D7100 excellent lens that covers a lot of the range { on APS } that i use most often. Although it is a bit large it effectively replaces a fast 28mm,35mm and 50mm .It is making me consider the Nex 7 replacement whenever it comes along.Though a 14-26mm F1.8 native mFT lens would be a better option only fly in the ointment is that Sigma seems to be simply adapting APS designs to mFT giving us some odd focal lengths, though 35-70 was an old school favorite focal length for standard zooms.
surprising or not, the fact is that Sigma has been designing some out of this world optics lately, they are simply beating everybody and selling at a “Sigma” price so I wonder how much would it cost if it had Sigma instead of Olympus, which BTW is more like on the other side of the pricing thing.
What matters is the result, and it’s amazing. (Congrats to Sigma labs)
Plus one.
Plus, Olympus has made a nice looking body around it. 😀
…but my reasonably-priced ()amazing), Sigma 35mm f/1.4 for my Canon came with a very nice (locking) lens hood….FOR FREE! 🙂
It was not “free” – it was included in the purchase price. Not even the cardboard box it comes in is “free”. Most people here think its just fine to try to force everyone who buys a lens to also “pay for” a lens hood they might never use.
I might not use one at all, I might want just a cheap POS, a collapsible rubber hood, a bigger/smaller one, whatever.
*** end of rant *** 🙂
Exactly. I bought an inexpensive metal hood for the 75mm and I have used it 2 times.
Just glad that my Panasonic lenses all come with a lens hood included. They cost almost nothing to make, being injection molded plastic. They protect the front of the lens from bumps and scrapes and increase contrast of the photos. I never take my lens hoods off. I hate using protective filters because they take away image quality, while lens hoods improve image quality. If Olympus was really interested in image quality, they would include the lens hood with each lens. But, it seems that because Sigma makes the lens for Olympus, Sigma probably makes a good share of the profit. So, Olympus has to make up for it by selling overpriced lens hoods.
If this is true it means Sigma has created three of the highest rated lenses in recent times. Impressive.
does not surprise me,design is only on pepper,the most important thing is manufacture。
Design would be more important, pepper or not.
for instance,all 50mm or 135mm lens are similar optic structure,but the performance is notthe same.so what ever who design that lens,what I am care about is performance and price.
I would take that last comment with a pinch of salt.
🙂
yes, and many lenses use similar design with minimal variations, just look at Gauss or double Gauss designs.
Dear Sigma … 12-35mm f/2.0 please, you can always go Wider and/or Longer as you please!
10-30 @ f/2.0, < 454 grams and they can have my first born.
well it can be a shock for the ones who always speak negative about Sigma.
Nice find ;). This proves my thoughts about the rendering of the 75mm f1.8, smooth character and pleasant flares as we can see on some Sigma primes. I am curious, if this lens has Sigma labeling, they will go down to f1.4 but I think Olympus keeps it more controlled to f1.8.
f1.8 also helps to keep the size and weight of the lens within reasonable limits.
that also explain the very good lenstip results of sigma 60mm 2.8 in terms of resolution …sigma is good
Now sigma please make a 8 mm f2 as good as the 75 mm !
But that’s impossible! Great Leader said that Zuiko optics are the best and m4/3 optics are better than 4/3 optics! Capitalist propaganda!
I see. No hood included in this patent.
But does this similarity really mean it’s made by Sigma?
also the Olympus zuiko 8mm 4/3 is a sigma project
look the Olympus and sigma optical project is the same
Design is one thing, but production is an other thing, the so is important is low tolerance in production, for an good lens.
Correct, but luckily, Sigma has also produced som VERY nice lenses lately – seems like they have focused on quality – and succeeded 🙂
To share the Foveon technology for mFT sensors will be a revolution. I always wonder, for the people who ask for big sensors and more Resolution, why they don’t go to Sigma’s Foveon Sensor and keep buying Canon and Nikon 35mm format digital cameras. This shows how important in peopels decisions the marketing is and not the arguments.
And with this happy news let’s hope for a new price for that lens.
m ZD 150mm f/2.8 macro ART which reads optics w/o compromise.
Can be slower than m ZD 12mm f/2.0 🙂
@admin a new E-M1 picture
http://ww3.sinaimg.cn/mw1024/5d4c10ccgw1e83keu9dcdj20ii0f8tbq.jpg
is this a real rendering of the new body? Because if it is why the hell the grip does not match the body line? Kinda strange…
its ergonomical shape
Thanks! Saw it and I will post it soon 🙂
It’s an artificial render, not a real photo.
No I think this is it. In de leaked video you also could see this grip. It Looks indeed like a Lego cam. Something wrong here….
Hi Shenkie, good to read your thoughts on this one!
“Lego cam” that’s another argument to give it to your kid. Don’t stop goof! 🙂
Hihi, look very so E-620. 🙂
mFT 75-300 is most likely also based on a SIGMA patent
The Best is the CV 17,5mm 0.95.
Good for retirees.
Correct me if I am wrong. I used to hear that Sigma makes lenses for Leica especially the aspherical elements. Leica designs it but has no equipment to produce it. So Sigma becomes the OEM for the production. Indeed, all the magic is just a matter of money. If we can accept a high price, the manufacturer can make something better. What I wonder is when will Sigma makes lenses with f/0.95 or 1.2. This is the wonderland that Sigma have never been.
you are almost right on this one.
but the truth is Sigma used to sell APO and some sort of special glass maybe aspherical elements to Leica , Canon, Zeiss, Sony, etc, not designing the Aspherical elements for Leica.
@admin, please, leave the Foveon sensor technology alone. 😀 Far not the best concept as you have a big amount of light loss between layers. Panasonic’s light splitting technology (combined with organic substrate) is much-much better!
Kesztió, in terms of noise yes, in terms of image quality at low ISO no
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/sigma_dp2m_review.shtml
It’s mostly better at being unavailable. Meanwhile, Foveon output has been improving for 10 consecutive years. But not to worry, five more years of better and better lenses and bodies and the only perceived weakness of Sigma will be the shoddy desktop software! 🙂
Frankly it makes me smile to see the unwashed blathering about 0.95 lenses, when Sigma has just demonstrated with the 19, the 30, and the 60mm that 2.8 maximises resolution.
As for their doubtful reputation in the past, it has been cured with new machinery designed to minimize sample variation. They also have a new manager who is the son of the previous owner, so much younger and ambitious.
The Voightlander 17.5 f0.95 is better at f2.8, 4.0, 5.6, etc. than the Sigma 19mm f2.8 at the same apertures. Even at f2.0 is better than the Sigma at any aperture.
http://www.lenstip.com/350.4-Lens_review-Voigtlander_Nokton_17.5_mm_f_0.95_Aspherical_Image_resolution.html
http://www.lenstip.com/338.4-Lens_review-Sigma_19_mm_f_2.8_EX_DN__Image_resolution.html
But it is filthy, resolution wise, at 0.95, which is exactly my point.
So you end up paying ten times as much for your effete bokey effect – painterly bad taste that was already out of fashion in the 1930s.
You know culture cost much less than lenses, even if you were born in a favela 🙂
No idea about their new manager, but Sigma has most certainly improved their QA and production process resulting in much more consistent quality.
I’ve tested the 19 and 30, and both are quite nice and sharp indeed.
So far the sane part of your post. Your ‘proof’ of f/2.8 being ‘best for resolution’ based on a sample size of what? 2 lenses? That proves exactly nothing, your sample size needs to be way bigger and exclude things like sample variation, manufacturer, design and cost limitations, and still show that consistently f/2.8 lenses are sharper then faster lenses. Not to mention, technically its pure nonsense as well.
What is true is that a slower lens providing decent quality is generally easier to develop then a fast lens providing the same quality, within the same budget. But that isn’t exactly what you were claiming.
Most interesting bit here is that I’m not a fan of Sigma colour rendering nor contrast, but the 75 is very Olympus thus I like it. So is that solely down to the coatings? Either way we’ve got the best of both worlds with this lens.
Whether or not one day I can justify owning one…
With regards to coatings and color rendition, google ‘minolta color matching’, it should get you a few links demonstrating how relevant coatings really are for color rendition. In times past when zooms weren’t a very usable alternative, the different color rendition from different lenses could be a problem for slide photographers, especially for reproduction of those slides, as it meant that each slide had to be color corrected individually for reproduction. Color matched coatings eliminate this issue, as do zoom lenses to a large extent. Olympus optical engineers have in the past voiced their admiration for what Minolta achieved there, and obviously learned a useful lesson from it.
I don’t care how things are called, I care what they do. And 75mm does. It also seems – judging from DXoMark’s tests, that Sigma mFT 60mm/2.8 is simultaneously better and cheaper than Olympus 60mm/2.8.
“that Sigma mFT 60mm/2.8 is simultaneously better and cheaper than Olympus 60mm/2.8”
but, it’s not macro!!!!
If it is indeed designed by Sigma, I wonder why they don’t develop native m43 lenses? Instead they bring oversized lenses optimized for the APS-C image circle, duplicating focal lengths instead of filling the gaps.
Simple answer … market potential. There is much more cameras with aps-c sensor.
Yup. F/T and m43 are just hitching along for the ride with those lenses. Besides that, Sigma is also happy to provide their business customers like Oly. Lots of yen coming in.
Compare that with designing and manufactuing m43-specific lenses and now having to compete with Panasonic, Olympus, Cosina and Schneider.
You would only do that if your brand value is high enough compared to the other players. Judging by the amazement that still captivates audiences every time Sigma does something state-of-the-art (this forum included), we’re not there yet.
Since the Leica 25mm 1.4 is also designed by Sigma, I don’t find this too surprising
http://www.43rumors.com/patent-sigma-25mm-f1-4-for-the-micro-four-thirds-system/
the filing date of that patent was june 2011, while 25mm mft version already existed at that time and tested too. So no proof its designed by Sigma.
even for the 75mm its not really 100% sure.
maybe you are correct but Sigma also designed and sold the E50mm f1.8OSS patent to Sony.
No surprise. Everyone knows that Olympus are failed old hacks, who haven’t produced anything decent in the past 30 odd years. I bailed out on them a long time ago and haven’t looked back. The fact that they rely on one of the joke brands of the camera business says a lot.
“The fact that they rely on one of the joke brands of the camera business says a lot.”
If the camera business is laughing at anyone it’s you, Fuji James 😀
In that “long time”, has your Fuji managed to focus yet?
No? Shall I put the kettle on?
Lenses by Sigma, sensors by Sony. Are you really gullible enough to believe that Oily-limp-puss make their own autofocus system?
It looks like some fuji X users would be happy having some Sigma lenses for their system:
http://www.fujix-forum.com/index.php/topic/9687-sigma-glass-for-fuji-x-mount/
Maybe they should consider m43 world 😉
No need: Fuji make their own lenses, and make them better than anyone else (ask hasselblad users). But all you oily-limp-puss fanboys can do is look forward your next sigma designed plastic lens lol (even the phoney camera maker panasonic does a better job of it than oily-limp-puss lol)
I’m not saying that fuji produces bad cameras or lenses… I’m just pointing that YOU visibly can’t talk for EVRY fuji owner. Once again, follow the link I gave and read the messages there…
A little quote for you lazy troller:
“As for Sigma and Fuji – as others note above, it requires Fuji to release firmware updates for the cameras to use each new lens. This is a potential “weakness” of the Fuji technical solution, since in my opinion it will stifle diversity, particularly for lower cost lenses. Ironically, those inexpensive Sigma lenses are extremely good on m43rds and not bad on APS-C, despite their $150 cost.”
See? Hopefully some fuji users aren’t as stupid and close minded as you are 😀
Whoops, you goofed! My Fuji S5 is – like its predecessor – based on a Nikon D200 body, with everything Nikon except the sensor (and the batteries, haha). I can tell you first hand the X-Pro1 is no match for the D200 when considering build quality and – of course – focus speed. Maybe Fuji overreached a little, hmm? Hahaha. Keep it up, Jim!
That was too much. I’m surprised somebody even responded. I think more subtlety will make your posts more effective.
Side note: I’m currently in the same room with someone who just sold his X-Pro1 with lenses. To your probably amazement, he appears very happy (but then again, he always enjoyed fast focusing cameras with proper build quality, making him a bit spoiled, I guess).
On unrelated non-news.
In Germany, Cyberport.de started listing the GX7 with the delivery date of September 19th. To me that sounds like an official release date – Cyberport wouldn’t list without official approval.
Now to the bad news: there are no 20mm kits listed AT ALL – only the 14-42 kits (and no, not PZ 14-42 – the usual kit 14-42). (The GeizHals/ shows the black 20mm kit available only in UK.)
Anybody hear anything about black GX7 20mm kit for the mainland Europe?
Is dpreview now in cooperation with 43 rumors?
http://www.dpreview.com/news/2013/08/29/did-sigma-design-the-olympus-m-zuiko-75mm-f1-8?utm_campaign=internal-link&utm_source=news-list&utm_medium=text&ref=title_0_0
Definitely no collaboration. They don’t like rumor sites.
dpreview have a ‘News and Rumors Talk’ Forum
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/1000?utm_campaign=internal-link&utm_source=mainmenu&utm_medium=text&ref=mainmenu
Have you been threatened? Just let us know, ok? 🙂
Then there’s this Egami article — Sigma and the Summilux 25mm. The entry reads like a mystery novel, it’s a fun read.
http://egami.blog.so-net.ne.jp/2013-01-22
I think here should be made a difference between Sigma lenses and lenses designed by Sigma.
There are many many lenses among other brands’ cameras and systems which are designed by Sigma. Some are quite average and some excellent. The point is that each of them is designed to each customer’s specification. There are pre-set parameters for e.g. the balance of quality and price of manufacturing.
One sort of behind the curtains working design house is Konica-Minolta. Sony did not buy their optical department. And then there is the very visible Zeiss. Zeiss is only different as their designs bear always their name even if it is manufactured elsewhere.
This is a very common practice among many fields. A well know example are Apple’s Retina displays in iPads. They are designed by Sharp. They are not made by Sharp but Samsung because Sharp could not reach the demanded manufacturing standard.
-p-
well considering the quality of the recent sigma lenses this is not at all improbable.
I really have to say that I’m very impressed with the way sigma transformed itself, they had lenses with a good value but often not the highest optical quality and not the best construction but now they offer some very high quality lenses and they are also a lot cheaper than the competition, or they offer something that no one else does still at a very acceptable price. I think I never seen anything similar with an other company.
Imagine that!? A Micro Four Thirds camera with Foveon technology. I’ve always loved Sigma! 🙂
It’s like Panasonic does all the flash guns. Big deal!
Sigma haters must die. Sigma rules. Foveon rules.
A bit late to join the conversation, but the following link also is interesting.
Sigma is making it possible to convert some of their lenses to different mounting systems.
Even sony to m4/3
http://blog.sigmaphoto.com/2013/lens-mount-conversion/?link=aug-t-3