I got some ulterior GX8 specs from my sources:
ISO 100-25,600.
Electronic shutter 1/16000
Mechanical shutter 1/8000
And Digicameinfo leaked the images of the Silver GX8 and full specs:
– Newly developed 20.3MP Live MOS sensor
– Highest sensitivity ISO25600
– Newly developed Venus Engine
– 6 control camera shake correction system “Dual IS”
– Multi-process noise reduction, three-dimensional color control
– 4K Video · 4K photo (30fps)
– 4K photo three modes (4K burst, 4K burst start-stop, 4K pre-burst)
– Large of 2.36 million dot organic EL EVF. Contrast 10000: 1. Magnification 0.77 times
– The back of the monitor organic EL 104 万 dot. Free Angle
– Dust and water. The body is rugged magnesium alloy build
– More easy to hold grip
– High-speed AF which adopted the DFD. AF speed is 0.07 seconds
– Continuous shooting of AF tracking 6 frames / sec.
– Starlight AF corresponding to the darkness of the moonlight of -4EV
– Improved the stability of the video AF
– Maximum speed of mechanical shutter is 1/8000 seconds. 1/16000 seconds with electronic shutter
– Silent shooting to use the electronic shutter
– Synchro speed is 1/250 sec
– Wi-Fi, NFC, QR code connection
Be sure to be online on 43rumors.com on July 16 at 5-6am London time to follow the live blogging for the GX8, FZ300 and the two MFT lens announcement!
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268 Responses
ISO100?????
What does it mean “6 control camera shake correction system”?
We will know tomorrow and after the first reviews. Relax. 😉
I think it means six axis compensation.
Though the question is what´s the 6th one ^^.
(pitch, yaw, roll, vertical and horizontal and …?)
LG
Forward / backward.
“5 axis” is
X rotation / translation
Y rotation / translation
Z rotation
Z translation is all that’s left.
Note there are only 3 axes really. This annoys me.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fa/6DOF_en.jpg
forward/backward would just be auto focus and not stabilization right?
It can be done by AF motors on AF lenses, but not to lag behind too much, there should be a sensor detecting the shake component in this direction, and an algorithm taking this shake component into account and driving AF motors proactively to compensate.
Anyway, on m43 is it useful mostly for macro.
Translation movements can be considered rotational movements around the axis which is infinitely far away, so it is definitely not the same axis as the one passing through the center of the sensor, as in the case of yaw, pitch and roll.
Perhaps better described as 6 Degree of Freedom rather than axis, but that’s even more confusing for the lay person who has probably not even the slightest interest in using words like “translation” and “axis”.
I stole the image from the 6DoF page on Wikipedia. 🙂
“Translation? Oh, from Japanese!”
All is explained here:
http://www.techradar.com/news/photography-video-capture/cameras/sony-a7-ii-5-axis-stabilisation-how-it-works-1274668
Easy really.
Time
The 6th axis is movement along z axis. This can be done by keeping AF during exposure.
Although shifting data should be obtained by gyro sensors instead of imaging sensors.
Six control = five axis plus six sense
But probably could be time…somethind like a timeless ibis…works at any shutter time
🙂
Looks good. Great Specs. I imagine my pre-order will be in tomorrow!!
As ever, thanks for digging all this out from the murky recesses of the photographic internet. My endless hours of editing images in front on my screen would be even more of a grind without all this rumour and speculation. Keep up the good work. (Like you I think I’ll be starting early tomorrow!!!)
There seems little reason to buy the E-M5 II now.
Let’s hope Olympus will come to it’s senses and put a new sensor in the E-M1 II and in the E-M10 II. The E-M5 is dead.
Yes, there is a very good reason to buy E-m5 II – electronic first curtain shutter = no shutter shock. GX8 mecanical shutter will suffer from shutter shock just like G7 which was just reviewed by DPReview.
So if there is EFCS on GX8 then you would agree E-M5 II is dead?
If the GX8 have an EFCS I will be a happy camper and choosing between it and the E-M5 II will be down to personal preferece. Not because one is flawed and the other isn’t.
What is shutter shock?
Imo some kind of urban myth; I’ve got a G7.
DPReview need 101 on how to hold a camera.
Yes ,
But EM10 2 will still with sensor that similar with EM5 2 .
2015 camera with 2012 sensor , how to compete ? ?
Ahm… 64 MP Highres shot?
Very good IBIS?
We really don’t know enough about the GX8 yet, especially not about it’s stabilisation.
But it certainly looks interesting. Let’s wait for the reviews.
The sensor has always been Oly’s biggest problem, because they are rarely (see E-M5) the first to use the latest and greatest. The E-M5II still has the better IBIS, probably the better VF, the highres mode, and maybe the better handling. It should also become cheaper once the GX8 is released. So it’s not dead. Anyway, someone who prefers Panasonic will probably buy Panasonic anyway, same with people who prefer Oly.
The E-M5ii is a very nice pretty camera.
I’ve got one.
It takes nice stills in good light but I’m underwhelmed by it’s capability, I need to shoot over ISO3200 (my E-PL7 actually goes higher). I had to get the G7 as b-cam to the GH4 for movie+stills shooting because the E-M5ii cannot do its intended low light job. The G7 shoots nicely at ISO16000 but less DR than the GH4 so it might blow out highlights more often, we can work around that.
OK, so they removed the built in flash. Camera sales are plummeting and the manufacturers still hang on to ancient practises, i e introduce a series of improvements, while removing some features. I’m expect there will be a GX8 II gen with built in flash edition. I can hold out a few more years, Panasonic.
aka GX9?
I agree, a built in bounce flash is a necessity for me. Especially when all you use are the 12-35 or 12-40 zooms.
Which camera offers a built in bounce flash, if any at all? Seems like your necessity is a feature none of Canon, Nikon, Olympus, Pentax or anyone has ever offered in the first place.
…on a bundled add on flash, however, it’s actually thinkable to be “bounce”
Panasonic built-in flash does. You can hold it pointing upwards.
These things shoot at high ISO, I cannot remember the last time I used the flash.
A little built in flash is great for fill. Used to use the one on my E-PL1 a lot, and miss it on the E-M1.
Am considering getting the GX7 for just this reason, it seems to be the one body that has it all, and would mainly use my E-M1 for sports and wildlife.
I use my G7 more than my E-M5ii which comes with a great little accessory flash. Wife has GX7, the G7 is the better camera. I got the G7 as b-cam for video work to my GH4 which is even better (mainly DR, like E-M1 is better than E-M5ii) because the E-M5ii cannot do the job. The GX7 is a good camera but the exposed monitor is a nuisance. I sold the E-PL1 to get the G7; do look at the E-PL7 as alternative to the GX7.
I have the monster FL580 flash for the GH4 but it gets little to no use, the pop-up is good enough for fill but with the wide DR it’s hardly ever needed.
Sports and wildlife. With the 4/3 50-450 Bigma the E-M5ii’s stabilisation is better than no stabilisation but the camera is useless in low light, that lens is so heavy it needs the ‘pod. The heavier GH4 is better balanced with the bigger lenses. The G7 has this rinky dinky 4K Photo burst mode 25fps with constant focus tracking which works very well with birdies; the PZ45-175 has excellent stabilisation and fast focussing. The G7 goes way further up the ISO scale without noise than the GX7, maybe even the GH4. More pixels on the GX8 is likely to be detrimental to DR.
As you have the E-M1 I guess you have bought in to unstabilised Olympus lenses but short lenses do not require stabilisation, nice but not actually necessary; hand at 1/30 is possible. I have pruned back to only one Olly lens the 45mm, the rest are mainly Panny X-lenses such as X7-14, X12-35, PZ(X)45-175 etc and the (unbadged Leica) 20/F1.7, all of which work very nicely on Olympus.
Wow. Seems so good. Hope the price won’t be to high.
Looking forward to this – after milking the 16mp sensor for so long, the new 20mp sensor will be the m43 standard over the next few years. For me a lot hinges on this sensor – if it doesn’t offer a noticeable bump in DR and significant improvement at high ISO’s – I think my m43 days may be over.
It will have to beat the GH4’s 13.5+EV of DR, the G7 only has just over 10.5EV and that extra 3EV makes a very real difference when shooting.
That DR is higher than most DSLR i.e. more than the D600 ff, and the GH4 can shoot at very high ISO with low noise, so can the G7. Plus they can AF at night by starlight.
If you look at DXO’s “low light” results, do remember to multiply the MFT result by 3.84 because DXO use a fudge factor to favour FF, big bad no-no is falsifying results.
DSLR have rather lost the plot on sensors.
GH4 doesn’t have 13.5 stops and its DR is not higher than the D600. DXO has it as 12.76 vs the D610 at 14.36. You can download comparison images from DPR or IR and its pretty easy to see the Sony FF sensor easily outclasses anything in m43 land. The extra stop and a half can easily be seen when lifting shadows or pulling down highlights – far more latitude in the Nikon file.
See for yourself at 6400: http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/image-comparison?attr18=lowlight&attr13_0=nikon_d610&attr13_1=panasonic_dmcgh4&attr13_2=sony_a7_ii&attr13_3=panasonic_dmcg7&attr15_0=raw&attr15_1=raw&attr15_2=raw&attr15_3=raw&attr16_0=6400&attr16_1=6400&attr16_2=6400&attr16_3=6400&normalization=full&widget=1&x=0.6004250674938251&y=-0.861566694771524
Seems to be a really nice camera – actually the best MFT to date – but still cannot see the ‘some brand new features and not a small evolution’!
Apart from the 20 MP sensor and the dual IS all the features are present in at least one already launched MFT camera model.
How many new features do you need to improve your photo taking experience, kesztio? I would rather Panasonic spend time and money delivering 2 really useful, thoroughly tested features as opposed to 10 new half-baked ones.
Water resistance is a solid improvement, IMO.
Already present in GH4.
True about GH4. I was comparing over my GX7, which I carry for backpacking because of compactness and lighter weight.
As an owner of G5 now I have 3 possibilities for upgrade: GH4, G7 and GX8 (GH4 just in case of an incredibly good offer as it’s way too heavy and bulky for me), hence I’m rather looking for the best value from the newest Panasonic bodies than to the evolution from the nearest predecessor.
The GH4 is not much heavier than the E-M5ii, especially as you always have to carry extra batteries for the E-M5ii, nor is it a great deal bigger than the G7. I like my G5 but the best of them is the GH4 closely followed by the G7, not the wife’s GX7 (hence not GX8). If you only shoot stills then probably the G7, very very competent (I had to get the G7 as b-cam to the GH4 because the E-M5ii can’t do the movie job, shame – pretty camera for unstabilised lenses in good light)
Awesome “No true Scotsman” argument you have there.
Based on the specs suggested this GX8 likely to break ISO 6400 barrier with clean & clear
imaging that none of the current m43 cameras able to do at the moment .
Impressive ?.
Good luck using 25,600 ISO. The maximum ISO spec for any camera is nothing but advertising fluff. Nobody uses it because it’s crap.
True, but that does usually mean that whatever passable high-ISO has moved up the ladder. Could very well mean that ISO 6400 is now clean/usable.
It is.
see above
You still don’t get it what I trying to say !
Here is the summary for you to understand further .
Current m43 sensors only good at ISO 3200 ( max )
GX8 likely to hit ISO 6400 with reasonable good & free noise imaging .
Of course , no more that .
If the sensor stayed at 16MP…but with increase to 20MP…we’ll have to wait and see if 6400 will be usable.
The GX7 is not the quietest of Panasonic’s cameras, no heat sink. I don’t see the GX8 going much above ISO6400 unless the sensor is very special, more likely 16MP multi-aspect. It wouldn’t be the first time they’ve used more than 16Mp, the GH2 was 18Mp multi-aspect.
My bet GX8 definitely beat my GX7
in ISO 6400 performance ( 16MP vs 20MP ) .
Do take a look at the G7 DR over its ISO200 to ISO25600 range, it’s almost level. That means signal to noise is good up in the telephone numbers. Next, actually use one.
If true , I pretty sure GX8 will be even better with it’s new
sensor & processor in the aspect .
With more pixels on a moving sensor and a smaller heatsink?
Maybe, maybe not. We can all hope though.
More pixels probably mean less DR and more noise. Body-IS means no heat sink on sensor i.e. more noise esp at high ISO; the GX8 will have to be more reliant on NR. Same processor as G7.
Fwiw the G7 is a most excellent camera imo better than the pretty E-M5ii
If 6400 iso is clean like Fuji sensors, then this GX8 is a winner.
m43’s already is cleaner than Fuji when you take into account the noise reduction Fuji does to their RAW files:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/124149010@N02/14393408821/in/album-72157644707671850/
That’s why he was suggesting usable ISO 6400 at 2 stops less than that.
Then again, GX7 max ISO was also 25600.
Base ISO of 100 is also awesome.
Both the GH4 and the G7 can shoot well over ISO6400, I shoot them up to ISO16000 as normal in low light, something my E-M5ii can’t do to save its bacon. The GH4 can even be used acceptably up at IS25600 if necessary.
The G7 is better than the GH4 at 3200, 6400 and 12800 in jpg’s.
and Raw are same.
Silver GX8 doesn’t look good for some reason. The black one looks much better. The silver GX7 was a very nice looking camera.
I think the silver version shows that the form isn’t as well-rounded as the GX7 was. Maybe because the silver top cuts the camera in half and makes you pay more attention to the details.
Hmmm sensor seems to be bigger than the hole? Multi aspect?
Edit: or maybe that’s just the way it looks from this angle with the shadows…
I’m thinking it’s multi-aspect.
Hope so otherwise 20MP is going to mean more noise.
On GH4, there’s glass over the sensor which covers a larger area, and at certain angles the reflection hides the smaller sensor beneath. Maybe same here.
Hope for multi aspect though.
It’s a mock-up otherwise the sensor would be at the ‘rest’ position, like it does on the GX7 or an Ollie.
Almost perfect except for the lack of flash and OSPDAF. Sheesh Panasonic, ddidn’t you lose mirrorless market share enough?
OSPDAF is not going to happen with this generation of IPE and 4K.
It requires shaded pixels, which must be “unshaded” in software. This requires too much processing power for 4K video on the current hardware generation.
Also Panasonic think DFD is equivalent to PDAF.
http://www.imaging-resource.com/news/2014/06/05/panasonic-executive-interview-part-i-why-no-long-teles-and-depth-from-defoc
There are always broken pixels on every large sensor. Interpolation of the information using pixels next to it is trivial and all cameras do it anyway.
Samsung and Sony have OSPDAF and 4k, no problems at all.
You seem to think I made this up for myself. I suggest you read the link I provided, where you’ll see it coming straight from Panasonic.
Panasonic engineers cannot possibly think that DFD is equivalent to OSPDAF. It requires much more computational resources and only works with Panasonic’s own lenses. Maybe Panasonic marketing people want to create an impression that DFD is the same thing, but we as customers should be smarter than believe marketoids.
meh to the flash. You can add any number of small or large flashes to the hotshoe. I have frankly not had any use for an onboard flash except to trigger other flashes. PDAF isn’t necessary for Panasonic, though I’d rather that be the solution instead of DFD because it would work with Oly lenses.
With external flash, it becomes not as compact and does not fit in tight bags anymore. The same problem with E-M5.
Damn, just when I committed to a black body, I see this. This looks classy.
The size of the sensor indicates a smaller camera than appeared yesterday.
Mic input?
Right? I never liked silver bodies, but this looks great.
1/250 flash sync? GX7 is 1/320 so what went wrong here?
It’s still the same.
1/250 was the max for an attached flash.
1/320 was only for the built-in flash.
Yes that’s true!
Damn, it’s perfect…
Live MOS sensor suggests it’s made by Panasonic themselves. “Newly developed” doesn’t tell us much, since 20MP is obviously new.
Panasonic make their own sensors, Olympus batteries are made by Panasonic, they make stuff for Sony too, go figure.
If I were correct, the sensor of GX7 was made by Sony
No, it’s a Panasonic sensor. The GH3 was rumored to be a Sony sensor.
Sony sensor in e m5 is called live mos sensor too.
So, live mos means nothing, just a marketing tool.
Ahhhh, I hadn’t realized that. Hmm…
I was thinking the Live MOS was confirmation that it was a Panasonic sensor.
Ah well, either way it doesn’t matter. A good 20MP sensor is a good 20MP sensor, regardless of the brand on it.
Ah, true. Well then that doesn’t tell us anything.
I note that the high end of ISO is 25,600 same as GH4 so maybe not much change in DR or IQ if made by Pany but has a new processor. At any rate making it 20 MP at least necessary from a marketing standpoint in comparison with the 1″ and APS-C competition ie more psycological than actual increase in resolution.
I’m getting mine in all Black. I think this will be my walk around camera for the next couple years at least.
As good as the GX8 and specs appear to be I still wish Pany would produce a smaller and more affordable model the size and shape of the LX100 that many were expecting. Sure that would mean using a 0.48 inch rather than 0.77 inch EVF screen and deleting the swivel screen and weatherproofing but maybe the new dual IBIS system could still be incorporated?
I agree. Making a cameras this big makes no sense. M43 needs to downsize a little bit at least to differentiate from the full-frame A-series…
Cost is a differentiator. Even if the A7 is so cheap, its AF system can’t compete with this. Sure, IQ will always be better but there are pros and cons to each.
Again… the body size differences are completely trivial the moment you put a lens on the camera. Sure that A-series camera body is pretty small, but then again, once you put on the 24-70 f4 the body size comparison is completely meaningless. Hell, the difference really doesn’t mean much with any lens added except for a pancake.
Also, there is a sweet spot for size in terms of usability. Personally, I think the GM1 is just too small and fiddly to be very functional. So while m43’s CAN make very small camera bodies, I’d just ask the question: why?
I think this is where the GM5 is going. I assume it will be approaching GX7 territory. Honestly, the EVF was such a big point of criticism, making it smaller in the GX8 would have meant a death sentence for the camera by many.
The 0.77 inch EVF is the largest presently used in any camera including FF. The 0.48 inch EVF in the LX100 is 3:2 not 9:4 ratio hence larger for viewing than that now in the GX7.
The A7r II leapfrogs it slightly at 0.78x, though. You’d hope so for the $3200.
Yes. I hope the next GM will be like this. I understand that some people need all this but a smaller and cheaper camera without some of these high end specs could find its place.
The GM1 was just fine but the GM5 was compromised by having too small 16:9 LCD screen and too small 0.35″ EVF aside from a more limited mechanical shutter and flash syncromesh in my opinion. Going to the LX100 size would cure all that. An alternative would be going to a pop up flash that the RX100 IV uses but maybe that better for a LX8 with 1″ sensor while the LX100 size and 4/3 sensor better match for existing interchangeable lenses.
Once you put a lens on the camera larger than the 20mm f1.7, the size difference between the LX100-body size and this GX8 is pretty trivial.
Not sure if other have noticed, but the viewfinder is the largest ever for m43 (the same size as the EVF in the X-T1).
Yes it is. 0.77x.
I’ve noticed it too.
Aren’t those a bit misleading though as they can only be compared by format?
No.
They are all normalized to full-frame format magnification.
The GX8 viewfinder is nominally a 1.54x magnification viewfinder, while the X-T1 is 1.15x. Both end up as 0.77x FF equivalent.
Do you know what the GX7 magnification is?
1.4x / 0.7x FF eq, but at 16:9 ratio. So only 0.57x at native 4:3 ratio.
This is a good sign that Panasonic may have taken in the feedback about poor EVF on the GX7. I hope the eyepoint spec gets published soon, as that was a big issue for me with eyeglasses.
Big problem I see is………what will this cost? I am guessing in the $999 range, and if so, pair that up with a Panny 12-35, and you have a total cost of $2000. Now, compare this with an A7 + 28-70 which can be had brand new for $1498 brand new (much less used), or a Sony a6000 w/16-70 Zeiss for $1398 brand new (again, much less used), and I think that Panny will have a difficult time competing. I like this a lot, just not sure the cost could justify its purchase when the alternatives are looked at.
Neither the A7 nor the A6000 are weather sealed. Neither have a 0.77x magnification high resolution tilting OLED viewfinder. Neither have a fully articulated touchscreen. Neither shoot 4K video. Neither have IBIS of any description. Neither have an electronic shutter. The AF is likely superior in the GX8 as well, but that’s something to be determined through testing.
The GX8 is clearly a higher end body than either of those you’re referring to.
And the 12-35mm/2.8 is a much better lens than the 28-70 f3.5-5.6 or the 16-70/f4. Not really comparable.
well said
Those are all good points. Both Sony lenses have OIS, the bodies have XAVC video, but I agree the AF is likely going to be better on this than the A7, and probably better in low light than the a6000 but not so much in good light with the a6000 PDAF being really good. The 12-35 lens is much more expensive so it should be better, but really looking at a cost benefit. For some, $500 USD premium over the Sony FF cam doesn’t make sense, but for others where the extra features mean a huge difference in usability, then it will. For me, the benefits over my a6000 w/16-70 I picked up for $1100 used, doesn’t justify the $900 USD premium, but then again it does look to be a superior package.
So pick up an E-M5 or GX7 with the Panasonic 14-42mm II (very sharp) kit lens for $500 and save $600 compared to your A6000 and 16-70.
You’re comparing older generation products in different product categories with a brand new top-of-the-line camera that has the best of everything. There will always diminishing returns, no matter the product.
For me, the benefits over a GX7 with kit one can pick up for $500 used doesn’t justify the $600 USD premium you paid for the a6000.
I get your point. I suppose the better comparison will be with a Sony a7000. I am looking at it from the perspective of a current owner and whether I would want to replace with this offering.
It’s kind of a pointless excercise to extend beyond thinking to yourself.
again, Class. Pretty tough behind a computer.
No apologies. You come to a forum where a pre release model is being discussed, and try to rain on the parade by comparing the price of a 3 year old sony model + slow kit lens TO this state of the art Panasonic model with a novel highest resolution sensor of its size + premium f/2.8 standard zoom.
This whole sub thread is pointless. Great, you’re having reservations and trying to convince yourself that the GX8 is not your cup and the a6000 is all that, but stop with these loopy comparisons. It’s quite ridiculous.
“Big problem …I think that Panny will have a difficult time competing.”
…with a 3 year old used camera + slow kit lens. OK.
I want to like Sony’s line-ups because the IQ/size/cost for the bodies is so good. But I can’t get around the lack of manual controls, they seem to want to make their bodies as minimalist as possible, and there are still a lot of gaps in the lens line-ups. A plus is m43 can deliver smaller lenses. Hopefully, this new sensor helps raise the level of m43 IQ.
xavc is a marketing term. sony use it to distinguish higher bitrate video. the encode is otherwise no different.
Do we know what the bitrate will be for the GX8? I might have missed that.
I think you’d be surprised at how good Panasonic’s DFD is compared to the A6000. Of course, with Oly lenses, the A6000 will be better, but I’d wager the GX8 is easily as good as the A6000 with panny lenses on it.
I can guarantee the AF in the GX8 will be better than the A7. My E-M10 is already much better at AF than the original A7 or A7R.
The GX7 was 999€ and the GX8 has more features, so it will surely be more expensive. I’m guessing 1199€.
For price comparison, Samsung NX1 is a better target. The body is retailing for 1500. With the high end kit lens 16-50mm F2-2.8, at a whopping $2800
well, that is a much larger package too……
If we’re talking size then we need to look at Sony lens sizes.
As soon as you started to compare a pre-release flagship camera to a 2 year old used deal I knew you were full of s**t.
Move on.
Class.
Comparing a constant f/2.8 to a kit f3.5-5.6? When will people stop cherrypicking gear for comparison. How about comparing it to the GX8 + kit 14-24mm? I’ll bet that the price of the kit would pretty much throw in the kit lens for almost free. The GX7 with kit lens is currently $647. So the GX8 with kit lens will be around $1k. Now let’s compare to non-kit (fast) lens. Sony A7 + 24-70mm F4 (a slower lens!) sells for $2400. If you want the equivalent to constant f2.8….Sony A7 + 24-70mm f2.8 (Alpha mount version) costs $3100 and you need to buy an adapter. Apples to apples. As for the A6000, while it’s got really amazing tech, have you ever picked one up? The whole thing is plastic. To me it feels really cheap even though it is a very good camera performance-wise.
Thats fair.
You need to multiply the aperture as well as the focal length…. just pulling your leg 😀
“Sony A7 + 24-70mm F4 (a slower lens!) sells for $2400”
I ran my equivalence conversion too. It’s actually a 12-35mm f2 and it costs $1200.
Great that is has 1/16000 electronic shutter, but what is the readout time? 1/15 sec, 1/30 sec, 1/60 sec? Hopefully it’s 1/60 sec or faster. Looking like a worthy successor to the GX7.
GX7: 1/15 sec 12 bits
GH5: 1/30sec 10 bits
I hope the GX8 had 1/30sec 12 bits.
I REALLY hope it’s 12-bit. I don’t shoot much video.
Do you know what is the readout time of the GM5 ? (Sorry, it’s off topic but I’m genuinely interested)
don’t know kind of this sensor,wait real characteristic.
backward to FZ300 with wrong,source told new sony 4/3 because it had 20MP like new Sony 4/3 sensor and Full readout 4K.
Summary,i think it not global shutter but they will improve readout time, it will faster than GH4 readout time (4K@50ms,FHD@14ms).
I want it has readout time < 8ms.
Looking good. But still no report on EFCS.
Do Panasonic cameras not do this already? With everybody else doing it (Olympus, Sony) I’d be surprised if the GX8 didn’t have it, but who knows.
hope pan know about SS problem.
but EFCS was unnecessary if pan develop mech-shutter from GH2.
Looks great. The extended grip is ugly to my eyes but I guess it’s worth it for the good shutter button placement, bigger battery and grip.
IF (big if) the A7000 rumoured specs are roughly true, this GX8 wins on lens size and quality plus touchscreen (and maybe weather sealing). The A7000 wins on pure image quality. It’s a tough call.
Are you sure about the GX8 having a touch screen? I have not seen any mention of it in the quoted specs even if G7 has one?
:))
Well that’s a more-than-reasonable assumption for this stage given the recent Panasonic MILC model lines. I am not 100% sure it uses a battery since it wasn’t mentioned, you wanna bet?
The difference between higher ISO m43 and APS-C isn’t as much as one would think. Here’s a comparison of the A6000 vs GX7 at 3200 ISO.
On a test image, maybe not, but in the real world (shooting in bars and dark venues) there sure is a difference. But I’m sure this new sensor will be great!
I have also noticed that the GX7 has very good ISO 3200. Surprisingly good, as long as there’s even a little bit of actual light. It’s not so good for astro though, or other types of photography where there’s a lot of pure black, where read noise gets a bit nasty.
WHAT THE HEEEELLL.
Has anybody noticed a kind of function button on the front of the camera?! Or what that thing (just near the red reference point on the mount) supposed to be?
Looks like you’re right ! So 4 Fn buttons in total, not bad.
Could be a self timer, it’s in the traditional place.
I think that’s the AF Assist Light. Has been there at that position since the GF1
You have to really look very closely to see this button, right to the left of the red reference dot.
Very interesting!
The AF assist light is the clear dot in the silver top above the lens mount. The GF1 AF assist dot is also clear…not black.
Good catch!
I’ll vote for activating magnified view for manual focus.
Wow! I hadn’t noticed that. Good eye. I don’t think any Panasonic Micro 4/3 has ever had a button there before. So it’s hard to guess what it’s for. A timer would be nice.
Probably switches the function of the dial. Its odd that they have only 1 dial now. I don’t see one on the back so you can control Shutter Speed and Aperture separately.
Nah, the one that has the on-off lever on it is also a command dial, and it has a button on it to switch the function.
But you’re right, it might switch the function of the front dial?
Yup I see that now with the top dial with the on/off switch. That’s a second dial. Nice
This may be a dumb question but how will the EVF be affected with 2.36 million dot as compare to current GX7 which has 2.76 million dot?
Should be more than fine. X-T1 has 2.36m dots and 0.77x and it looks great.
Will you be able to tell the difference with regards to the number of dots? probably not. But the increased size will be make a world of difference. Try a Fujufilm X-T1 and you’ll see why people rave about the EVF.
After using the Leica Q evf, there’s no turning back. 🙂 (3,680,000 dots, just to say)
It’s field sequential, though, the same tech that some people hated in the GX7.
Just some people, I have absolutely nothing with the field sequential technology from the G5. It depends on eye and person.
So far I haven’t read nor heard of a single complain about Q EVF: high resolution, no lag, huge. Perhaps the Company that developped it simply did a great job (I think it’s Citizen Finetech Miyota, but I’m not sure)
To be fair, most people weren’t bothered by the rainbow tearing of the GX7 either, just some people. And there are a lot more people shooting the GX7 than the Q, so it might be a numbers game.
No denying that the Q EVF is undoubtedly better than the old one in the GX7, and a higher refresh rate might well be making the difference, but if someone is sensitive to the rainbow effect, I’m be curious to know if it affects the Q as well.
It might have high resolution, but the optics aren’t great. I was disappointed frankly.
You are the first disappointed by what’s currently the best evf for cameras on the market.
That’s not a statement of fact, that’s a statement of opinion.
Your opinion is that the Q evf is not great (I wonder what’s your opinion about the other evf on the market..). Actually there are no better evf on the market, and that’s a fact. I assume you prefer ovf then, but that has little to do with this thread of comments.
Let’s not waste time on semanthics, and as your nickname says, just take the picture. 🙂
First, you have misquoted me. I didn’t say the Q EVF is not great. The resolution is great, I just found it lacking optically.
Secondly, you have once again called your opinion fact. What exactly (in your opinion) makes the Q EVF the best on the market? The resolution? That’s not the only factor when assessing it’s quality. As I said, I found it lacking optically. More specifically, I found that wherever I placed my eye, one or more of the edges where smeared.
Thirdly, you assumed wrong. I prefer EVF.
You are disappointed, you said, and you are the first person I read/hear saying that. Sorry if I misquoted you, in the beginning I thought that you were writing about the lens optics, not the evf.
The evf is too big? If you put your eyebrow in contact with the rubber (read really close to the flat glass of the vf) you will be able to see the whole image inside, from angle to angle. It’s a problem if you look from too far.
I can use it with spectacles too: the rubber won’t ruin the lens and I can still have a full view of the image inside the viewfinder.
Given the highest resolution and framerate refresh, it’s not just my opinion that that of the Q is the best evf around: compared to that of Em5Mark2 I can clearly see the difference in the quality (I own a Q and the Em5mark2 was the last camera I bought before the Q, owning also an Em1 and having tried all models from Fuji and Sony).
Do some web searching, and please link me some review where the Q evf is not praised.
Of course it’s not mandatory that you like it, but so far you are the only one, as I wrote above.
And you are free to have your opinion on that.
If you don’t own a Q and can’t use it everyday, I understand that you can’t get used to it.
After a couple of months with it, I see the difference every time I pick up another camera.
I did mention that wherever I put my eye I couldn’t get a clear image from edge to edge, and that includes eye relief. I have seen a review where they mention a similar problem, but alas I’ve read too many and don’t have the time to search.
Don’t get me wrong, it’s a fantastic camera and I’ll probably pick one up. All cameras have their quirks. Like you say, you get used to them.
The EVF should actually look much better. The EM1, EM5, Fuji X-T1 all have less dots than the GX7, and all 3 have much better EVFs. It’s really the magnification that matters once you go over 1 million dots.
The premium sensor should be in the GH-series first…
the GX7 is a premium camera in Panasonic’s line. They probably want to introduce a new sensor sooner than later to keep people from jumping ship. Now people with GH4s will wait for the GH5. Development time for the GH5 is probably longer due to it’s need to be a very good video camera.
I’ll wait for the GH6 :-p
The GX7 had a brand new sensor when it was released as well.
Everything with a “x” on Panasonic Products is Premium or x-tra good 😀
Wrong .
GX is pana’s flagship still camera like Fuji’s X Pro therefore should feature latest sensor imaging while GH is just a video camera .
Always remenber that ?.
Serious question: are there any Panasonic cameras selling today that have better quality stills than GH3/GH4?
If yes, in what sense?
No
Well, the GX7 has IBIS. Definitely an advantage for stills with some fast primes in certain circumstances.
Cameras down the product stack often get premium features, relative to the flagship, when they are released afterwards; much the same way the EM-5 Mark II has superior video in comparison to the E-M1.
That being said, the GH4 will do less pixel binning for 1080P when compared to the GX7; and the larger (3.7 vs. 3.3 um) pixel sites of the GH4 should make for superior noise handling and dynamic range in video. Also, it is doubtful the GX7 will have the same codecs as the GH4.
I do think, however, that the GX7 will be the superior device for landscape and studio photography. It will be interesting to see how the 20.3 MP GX7 handles diffraction.
Looks less awkward in black. Calls less attention to the protruding grip. I am glad that the grip is there though.,…
I am not going to buy this camera…I use Oly..and Canon and no matter how great it is I just cannot deal with another menu system. LOL!…..but I am very interested to see the image results from this new 20MP Sensor! Intriguing.
Wait, your excuse is dealing with another menu system, yet you use a camera with one of the worst menu systems around?
Wow.
OMG im in love!! Who wants to buy my E-P5? It’s going on ebay tonight! lol
No flash 🙁
I can’t remember when was the last time I’ve used on camera flash :).
I help you: yesterday…
Speak for yourself…
It was a joke…. Should I have added a smiley to make it clear?
Then a long, long time has past since “yesterday” LOL.
I use it on my GM1 all the time as a fill flash
I don’t use it often, but that is why I want it built in. I have flash shots I like that I would have not gotten if it had to walk 20 feet to get my flash out of my car and mount it on my camera.
I agree
I use it for fill flash sometimes (I have the gx7). The gx8 is bigger but doesn’t have flash, its a shame.
Wonder if it has a battery grip. Looks nice overall. Maybe bigger grip is for battery purposes, but the style and rubber of lx100 seem superior to me. Glad the texture is on non grip side too, though
I like how you can really latch on securely to such deep grips though, and notice how the shutter button is actually on top of the grip, like a dslr.
new develop 20.3mp ? that confirmed this sensor from panny but why live mos.
why not other kind of sensor,mech/elec shutter still same GX7 that is Venus specs can not change.
The post on the digicame has just been updated:
It provided additional information about size, weight and shake theGX8. Lens is not officially announced, is unveiled.
-Still shake: Dual (4-axis body / lens 2 axis).
-Shake video: HYBRID O I S… + (5-axis)
-Size is 133.2 x 77.9 x 63.1 mm.
-Weighs 487 grams.
-The development of two new lenses announced
So there is there IBIS with video? still seems unclear
Looks like it from the poorly-translated specs.
I think it might be combination of OIS and digital stabilization (not IBIS).
Thanks for the update – very surprised on how much the GX8 increased from GX7 size!
Now just as wide as GH4 but less height and depth than the G7 as no center hump. Maybe needed the extra weight to counteract any possible shutter shock and also use GH4 heat sink? Good to have confirmation the new IBIS system will also work for video.
I was seriously considering buying a cheap Oly body just to have IS with the 40-150 f2.8 lens… but not any more. Oly could really suffer if Panny delivers 4/6-axis photo IS and 5-axis video IS. They will need to up their video features if they want to remain competitive, the performance gap is just so huge.
GX7 is 123 x 71 x 55mm and 402 grams. Hopefully there’s longer battery life for the extra size.
4-axis in body?
What is the one that is left behind?
The 5-axis has next five moves:
Pitch
Yaw
Roll
X
Y
The sixth is on Olympus and Sony the Auto-Focus to keep subject on Z axis in focus.
So you say 4 axis on this GX8. What is left away? Roll? That is exactly what can be done with sensor but not OIS.
Sounds like the IBIS might be improved. Also, didn’t the GX7 turn off IBIS for video? If so, video IBIS is a big improvement for the GX8.
i think it can anti-shake on video but don’t expect much same em-5II,as least 2 stop shake correction that very good.
Lol,because i had steady,slider for video.
others improve the stability of the video AF ! how much faster? i try many hybrid cam the Dual-Pixel from canon still the best video focus.
Honestly, if the GX8’s internal IBIS is equivalent to even the E-M10, it would be huge. The E-M10’s 3-axis is significantly better than the GX7’s, and, I’ve found it to be better than some of the optical stabilization available on panasonic’s lenses.
There is no indication Pany or anyone can do full 4K-read on a non-stacked sensor while IBIS is on. My guess is that in GX8, IBIS+OIS only work up to the full HD format, ~70mb/sec. For the full 4k, it’ll be OIS only, or for short duration such as when using the 4k photo mode.
Pany will wait until GH5 w a new stacked sensor to deliver IBIS+unlimited 4k.
the a7rii does it with a BSI, not a stacked sensor, but I think you may be right since this body is smaller and may not be a ble to disperse the heat. Hopefully this does not limit the 4k recording duration. if it does not limit the 4k recording then it will be interesting to see if panasonic limits the 4k to 29 miutes as they have with the G7.
It’s limited because of tax issues in Europe. It’s not limited to 29 minutes if you buy your G7 from Korea, for example.
I think there are no versions that are not limited. I bought my G7 in the US which does not have the tax restriction, but it still has the 30 minute limit. this may be able to be worked around if using an external recorder, i do not have an external recorder that will record 4k, so i cannot check that.
The EVF is bigger, but have they ditched the field sequential EVF tech? I’m sensitive to rainbow effect so field sequential is a no-go for me. Hoping they’ve gotten rid of that abomination.
Says it’s OLED.
Ooh, that would be awesome.
Nope. OLED doesn’t have correct colors and its brightness is worse and accuracy as well. But benefit is that you can use polarized sunglasses with it. LCD panel would have correct colors and brightness being better controlled and it being sharper, but you can’t see anything with polarization sunglasses.
Wow the silver version looks so cheap, I can’t really tell if its cheap looking or just ugly but I loved the GM1’s gray/black look, GX8 misses the mark. Go all black if you are getting it
Ibet you go allblack when you are getting it. WinkwinkNudgenudge.
This is going to be an expensive camera 🙂
That is what I am afraid of. Given the upgraded specs with new sensor, better IBIS, 4K, swivel screen, bigger EVF, and weatherproofing it will be higher than GX7 was at intro or would detract too much from the GH4 sales. I would expect an initial body price for the GX8 to be $1199 or similar to EM1.
Seems that Pany decided on upsizing the GX8 rather than downsizing given the good initial reaction and sales of the GH4 but there are now many more smaller models sporting 4K including those from Pany
That’s probably a good call. They had a gap in their lineup, between G7 and GH4. And with new sensor and processor, they hopefully solved the problems that pulled down on the original GX7 (like long exposure performance, or lack thereof).
This one is looking like a very interesting camera. But if it still can’t do long exposures, it going to be real shame.
It would look a LOT better with the dark silver on the G7!!!!! DUH panasoinic!
Titanium Edition on the way!
I find it very hard to read the white text on the gray G7 body. Handsome as the gray is, I’ll take black.
Only 2 Fn …. disappointing
3 Fn. One also on top.
and front
Where do you see on front? The 2 Fn on the back and the one on top are clearly marked “Fn” while the pseudo-button on the front has no marks. Also, it’s diameter seems a bit smaller than the other 3.
the button on the top, in the wheel also isn’t marked, but it’s still a FN button. Same goes for the one on the front (between the bayonet and the grip)
While it’s possible that they designed something that looks like a button but serves no purpose on the front of the camera, I think it’s more likely that it is a button. Perhaps it is unlabeled because it’s very hard to read when you’re on the other side of the camera? I can’t recall seeing a front button labeled on any camera.
Is there not still 5 soft FN ?
actually it has more. one on front, left to the bayonet. Two on the top of the camera, and two on the back. Plus of course the soft FN Buttons. not to disappointing….
Lots of negative comments on arguably a very solid upgrade. The main points seem to be lack of flash, and the switch to a fully articulated rear screen. Both trivial in comparison to the real changes in sensor, IBIS and form factor.
This really illustrates the weirdness of the market. Endless complaints about needing change but when things get changed, the howls rise to the skies because things WERE changed or that the new device is not magically incorporating every possible technical gizmo extant or inhabiting the dreams of engineers.
People have a vision of what they want it to be, and every deviation is a travesty.
I’d like a built in flash too, but it’s no biggie. There are other things I’d have liked to be done differently, but nothing’s perfect.
Not much negative from me. Miss the push scroll wheel and wished it had 5axis vs the 3axis and would have been nice to have mic in although realistically only very few will ever use it But I’m happy with upgrade Like the idea of Flip LCD. 20mp so a bit higher resolution just hope low light performance is better
“wished it had 5axis”
There are predictions that it will “combine” OIS and IBIS. I don’t know what is meant by this, but perhaps the two will work together to yield better results than OIS or the GX7’s IBIS alone.
I actually like the screen. And everything else. Only gripe is the lack of flash but this might make me buy an external flash which I need, anyway.
Headphone jack?
I do not think there is a mic jack, much less a headphone jack.
mic jack since gf1, never
Has anybody noticed the much larger sensor that looks wider than 4:3 factor? Maybe 5:2 or even 16:9? It’s so wide its corners are blocked from view by the mount flange. Definitively not your usual 4/3 sensor, and a good thing on my book.
GH5 might use the whole thing?
Panasonic doesn’t have the balls to drop in an APS-C sensor.
Yes, it would be nice. Let Pana redesign all current lenses from scratch.
Micro Four Thirds doesn’t have the room or image circle. Testicles have nothing to do with it.
Depending on the presence and size of internal lens baffles, m43 lens might support 16:9 and square images with the image diagonal matching the diagonal of the 4:3 frame. The (m)43 image has a sensor diagonal of 21.6 mm, a square frame with that diagonal would be 15.3 mm high and wide. A 16:9 frame with that diagonal would 18.8 mm wide (and 10.6 mm high). Thus a sensor covering that would need to be 15.3 x 18.8 mm.
APS-C is 15.6 x 23.6 mm, thus 10% wider on both sides than necessary.
I was just wondering if it’s some kind of multi aspect ratio sensor, like in the LX100, but designed so the effective area remains the same as a 4/3s sensor (not a smaller one like in the LX100), so it has to be bigger sensor in the first place. It would be kinda cool :O
I’ve noticed that M43 cameras from Oly and Panasonic seem to decline relatively quickly in price. So if the GX8 comes out over $1,000, I’ll bet it’s just a matter of months before it falls quickly, maybe below $1,000. But hopefully Panasonic will release it at a lower price.
Nikon and Canon seem to hold the line on their dSLR prices a lot more than Panasonic. They enforce their minimum allowed prices with their authorized dealers, which stops dealers from price-cutting.
Canon already has a mail-in rebate on the 50MP 5Ds and 5Dsr. Besides…Black Friday isn’t that far off.
size differences:
http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/7-15-2015/yjYbSM.gif
I want the GX7 with the specs of the GX8
And now with no flash. We’ll see about the sensor, but if it’s not much improved, it will soon be a good time to buy a GX7 at a great price.
Thank you for that comparison. Well done.
That’s a beast… Not that its a bad thing.
More Fuji X-Pro sized, now…
Looks like the best Panasonic photo cam so far. In every aspect.
But a real wow would only be if it has an electronic shutter without the usual Panasonic restrictments (10bit…) and a 14bit loosless RAW mode.
looks awesome! if the IBIS works good on 4k videos, i’ll sell my EM5 M2 and get this. Panasonic DFD is much better in focusing anyway over Olympus. Olympus seems to be dragging their feet on 4k anyway.
I’m starting to notice a trend, where this camera is now being pitted against a Sony APS-C camera.
Could it be because of the 20mp sensor, and also that the newest Olympus camera uses a 3-4 year old Sony semsor?
Let’s be clear here, the nearest competitor to the GX8 is the EM5 MkII, AND right now, spec wise it’s not even close.
And I did kinda called it, that Panasonic would be the first to a 20mp sensor, because they can afford to and Olympus can’t.
I got the humble pie… who wants a slice?
Well, body-wise, it clearly outclasses the A6000 in every conceivable way except the sensor. But then again, so did the GX7 and the E-M5 II…