Two very trusted sources can confirm that Leica is not going to launch a Leica branded copy of a Panasonic Micro Four Thirds camera. What Leica will launch is a completely new system using their own mount. That is the part of the rumor that can be rated as FT5.
The possible surprise: One of the sources also said that a couple of months ago he learned from very reliable sources that Panasonic was…let’s say “Playing with the idea” to join the new Leica system. The new Leica system will not compete against the MFT system but play a role in a much more higher and more expensive market. The source promised to let me know soon if Panasonic will join that new Leica system. This could become a HUGE change in Panasonic strategy.
One more thing: Olympus has definitely nothing to do with that Leica-Panasonic partnership and will never join that system.
Stay tuned on 43rumors. This could become one of the biggest Panasonic news of the last years!!!
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Rumors classification explained (FT= FourThirds):
FT1=1-20% chance the rumor is correct
FT2=21-40% chance the rumor is correct
FT3=41-60% chance the rumor is correct
FT4=61-80% chance the rumor is correct
FT5=81-99% chance the rumor is correct
105 Responses
Only daydreaming here….but wouldn’t a mirrorless medium format system based on the Leica “S” mount be a beast? I’d look pretty hard at a Panasonic version.
To compete with pentax 645D. Interesting.
Can I ask you where you got that idea from (Competing with Pentax 645), I’d think more on lines of APS or 35mm format. Could also mean a stronger look at an Olympus bodied A7.
I was adding to DonToms comment. If Leica and Panasonic made a mirrorless S medium format camera (the leica S costs $20k), it could compete with the Pentax, a more accessible medium format digital camera that costs only $6k.
Oh I see. I don’t forsee Leica making a poor man S any time soon nor do I see them cannibalizing their S. I’v see weirder things, yet I don’t think this one will happen.
Aps c is imo to close to m43 for Panasonic. FF is a good different approach for Panasonic but to similar to the M system for Leica. Another sensor size?
Now this is why I come back this site.. these company relationships are like a soap opera, or reality show! I’m keen to see how the live child turns out!
or maybe the child will be born DEAD! we shall see..
I hope part two won’t materialize, because Panasonic would then most likely neglect m4/3.
I didn’t see that being rumored here, (yet)…
Actually that sensor.. new system, new mount, don’t know. What does the consumer need, what would be compatible, what would be profitable? 1″, m43, apsc, FF – that’s already more than enough for me.
Sooner or later all companies will feel the urge to produce mirrorless FF models, like it was the case with smaller sensor ILCs. If Panasonic share a FF mount with Leica, the dilemma for Olympus would be that they should join the FF Nex system – if Sony let them – but that then nobody would trust Olympus’ loyalty to the MFT system
No , not likely to happen. Olympus has ZERO reasons to develop another system with a different format. Fortunately I think that deciders at Olympus headquarters are fully aware that they need to stick to the m4/3platform
Harold
Agreed. Far better they design/ make lenses and IBIS systems on contract for Sony, let Sony carry the financial risk….
The consumer electronics industry needs complete new systems after a while that forces customers to renew all their stuff, because otherwise they lose sales. It’s not long ago we had to change our TV screens to HD, soon we have to change them again for 4K, we will need need new bluray- players for that too.
It seems that the cycles have to change faster nowadays, because stockholders demand higher growth rates
A-ha. So Panasonic is bailing out, like they did with 4/3.
History repeats itself. It always does.
Based on a rumor?
They reportedly might join Leica, and because company this big doesn’t have the resources to support more than one system thus they *are* dropping m43. The writings are on the wall…
Not to mention they only had 2 bodies and 3 lenses to drop back then.
Are they profitable now? Olympus isn’t.
Panasonic also gave up on their own sensors.
We’ll see.
Gave up on their own sensors? Not so fast…….it is probably more the case that they are developing the next generation of sensors (the rumored “organic sensor”, with Fuji as a partner). And made the sensible decision to use Sony’s current sensor to stay in the hunt in the meantime.
Fanboys on these sites like to talk about one company “slaying” the other. Actually, all the camera (and electronic) companies are co-dependent to some extent. Real life isn’t as simple as “Game of Thrones”…….
So who makes the gx7 sensor then?
Panasonic used the Sony sensor in the GH3 as their new sensor wasn’t ready.
The GX7 and GM1 both use the new Panasonic sensor.
It’s not quite as good as the Olympus/GH3 Sony sensor but it’s close enough not to make a difference in real life use.
That’s based on DXO analysis.
This statement is an ordinary b’sh’t like the other ones where a new XY player claims that it wouldn’t compete against the already existing WZ player.
Once
1. both are photo camera systems and
2. even the entriest level large sensor (>= 1″) system cameras are able to make high quality photos
they indeed would compete against each other. What’s wrong with that?
Let’s take the automotive example: Skoda and Audi (Chevrolet and Cadillac for US readers or Toyota and Lexus for Japanese ones). Both are cars. Both take you from point A to point B. But they don’t compete each other. Why? Very simple: they don’t have the same build quality nor the same specs nor the same standard & optional equipments! Not to mention brand prestige!
Sorry to burst your bubble but Skoda and Audi are essentially the same car with different trim levels, there is no additional engineering tolerance or anything like that
Skoda and Audi are the same car for those who can afford a Skoda but not an Audi. Beside better trim levels, Audi has much better build quality, more powerful motors and a lot of equipments that Skoda will never have (or it will have in 10 years from now). Price/performance or price/quality ratios are very well represented in the capitalist world no matter how many of us think that companies are making fun of us by selling the same low-cost or mainstream product in a premium package.
I don’t disagree with what you’re saying except….Skoda (along with Ford) are generally the most reliable European car maker and all the German brands are fairly unreliable, though occasionally Porsche does okay.
All the Japanese brands and Huyundai/Kia are the most reliable of all.
This gives the data for Europe’s biggest warranty provider for 3 to 8 year old cars (bearing in mind that most cars are reliable when new)
http://www.reliabilityindex.com/
And it is technically far easier to produce an expensive car than a budget car.
Something like a Ford Fiesta has to cope with carrying a family, be fuel efficient and durable (they typically lead a harder life than luxury cars) and yet cost a fraction of the luxury car to produce and must be able to be built in a much smaller time frame (to keep costs down)
They may use the same parts, but the rumor is that parts are classified by some kind of quality check. The best ones then go into an Audi, while the worst end up in Skoda. Not saying that Skoda is a bad car, though.
Oh, wait, there was some photo talk at the beginning of the article 😉 …
Even if I had the necessary amount of money for both Škoda and Audi branded cars I still would definitely choose Škoda.
The reason:
1. I’m not a snob, the Škoda offers (almost) the same buid quality, power and stability for much less money.
2. I think Audi has a rather ‘negative’ reputation – at least in our South-Eastern country the so-called ‘cocalar’-s often buy Audi just for status symbol. 😀
Skodas are just Volkswagens for mean people, though…
Chevys and Cadillac are both junk. At least they’re not Fords. Or worse, Dodges.
It was just an example. You can have the Ford – Lincoln example if you are a fan of Ford group!
Wow, you had no idea of what Mr. Reee wrote. Despite that gaff, I want to thank you for dumbing it down to Cadillac and Chevrolet to the American readers (after all, they are not sold in China…duh) and to Toyota and Lexus for the equally ill-informed Japanese readers. Very kind. But, what about French readers…are you going to offer a couple of Citroen/Peugeot to Renault comparisons for those ignorant folks? And for the uneducated Californians…Tesla vs…..
Actually, I remember, ages ago, an American salesman’s pitch, trying to justify the price of Tumi luggage “What’s the best car?” “A Merc?”, I offered. “Cadillac!”, he corrected me. He did not make a sale; and a year later I bought a Rimowa. Yes, I know we are supposed to be discussing cameras, not cars or luggage, but the lesson of the story is that different markets have different preferences and different standards of quality…
good luck Panasonic!
Now that is interesting. But what does a new leica system mean? They have FF and MF now. Will it be smaller like APS-C?
Yes, it will be an APS -c sensor, as on X Vario cameras. As I wrote weeks ago, the camera will be built in Germany (a new factory is ready) while lenses will be made in Japan. Panasonic factories sounds logic to me, since there’s already a collaboration in lenses department (see new 15mm and 42mm branded Leica)
The only strange thing is that it won’t have a M mount like M models, so it will be a new mount.
Leica is a luxury brand, like it or not, and aims at a heavy pocket niche in the market.
Whether they’ll show something worth their old fame, only time will tell.
Personally I have lost all hopes.
It’s difficult to see how Leica would be able to compete with Olympus in m4/3 – what else could they offer to justify the inevitable Leica tax? Especially when a marketing advantage of m4/3 is the lens line up… customers would then ask themselves why are they being asked to pay megabucks when they coukd buy an Olympus or Panasonic body instead. But the same holds for this rumoured new system – surely if Panasonic joins in, it devalues Leica?
I don’t get it. Leica should stick to their strengths, optics, and make them for m4/3 but especially Sony Alpha mirrorless, where they’d be likely to find higher spending customers.
But hey, what do I know about running a camera company 🙂
Olympus has, what, maybe 2% (and shrinking) of the (shrinking) interchangeable lens market? Why would it be so difficult for established players (with funding) to differentiate themselves and carve out a niche by challenging other struggling, money-losing participants in the (shrinking) interchangeable lens market?
Panasonic doesn’t need Leica to produce good cameras and lenses. Trying to associate with Leica is not a good news for the consumers because we will need to pay a premium for everything. I don’t like the idea.
Very interesting, I see a clear rationale for Panasonic to grow sales by join something else than m43. The market share m43 is not enough for neither Oly nor Pana if you think long term. Product development is essential and will be more and more expensive. Spread of R&D cost over larger volumes is essential for profitability.
The Leica trail means more expensive cameras with better margins. Making “almost Leica” cameras and lenses would be a great thing. The Leica brand has an extremely high emotional value – yet Leica is a small company that would benefit a lot sharing R&D costs.
This rumor is similar to rumors that Sony and Hasselblad are working on a joint high end project. Sony gets some “Hasselbladishness” on its brand and Hasseblad make use of Sony R&D capacity.
This development is very similar to automotive industry which also has overcapacity and high R&D costs. BMW uses Peugeot engines as does Volvo etc…..
It will probably be an interchangeable lens X camera (APS-C) with lenses made by Panasonic. Think of the X2 or X Vario with interchangeable lenses. They will also make an M mount adapter. These cameras will probably accept the electronic viewfinder offered by Leica (the rembranded Olympus EVF or similair).
Leica, Has the M system, the S system (and still the R)… I don t think that a new system is a good idea for leica :/
Leica is going to launch a less expensive (than the M) FF camera. They need to expand their market to people who will not spend $7000 on a camera body that is not all that great technologically (great build though)…
It has nothing to do with MFT.
For Leica it could just be an electronic interface for the existing M mount. Thereby providing AF while retaining legacy lens compatibility.
If sensor is not 35mm, the M-mount lenses wouldn’t be really native. The wide- and standard-angle lenses become standard- and short-tele-lenses.
I’m not sure what to make out of the announcement, really.
Panny might be producing the bodies for Leica, while Leica would produce the lenses. They would probably try to reproduce the success of the Fuji X, where Fuji has produced almost complete lens catalog within couple of years.
Could be something agains the Sony A7 – so in Leica terms, its a 4000€ body sans lens and the old sensor of the M9^^ – oh wait, why not just buy a M9? Just kidding… we are really living in interesting times – if the zombie apocalypse comes, I will photograph it with excellent gear!
LOL we need a quiet shutter! 🙂
Fantastic comment!
Mr. Full Frame at least will fend off the zombies with his gear.. Those with a GM1 will have a harder time..
What I don´t understand is that recent trend to start new camera systems instead of making new lenses for existing systems. There are gaps everywhere but we have to start new – and buy everything again. Isn´t that silly? Companies should get more consumer oriented. Forcing consumers to buy huge amounts for marginal improvements will only work short term.
Leica will fail with an premium priced APS-C system – sure the Beckhams and maybe Kim Jong Il will buy that stuff but the informed photographer. Panasonic should perfect their mft sensor tech AND make new lenses! Not start a new system that won´t be that much different save for price. Sorry for the rant…
“Forcing consumers to buy huge amounts for marginal improvements will only work short term.” Should have meant:
Forcing consumers to spend huge amounts of money for incremental improvements based on marketing and tech bubble (does anyone see the 1 stop advantage of the Oly EM-1 in low light?) won´t work in the long run.
It´s just too obvious that all they want is our money and they don´t even try to balance that with some real value.
The winner-takes-all mentality of the business.
Why share if you can make all the customers you can get only buy from you
I hope the FF hype will die soon – as soon as people will realise that the high quality, bright lenses do make a system professional, rather than the sensor size itself. (As discussed before, a 42.5/1.0 lens for MFT shouldn’t be bigger, more expensive and more complicated than an 85/2.0 for FF.)
How is FF hype any more or less than micro 4/3 or mirrorless hype?
In the sense that nobody is seriously trying to propagate the idea that the only serious and potentially professional cameras that can exist must be mirrorless and/or (micro)fourthirds, whereas we can read and hear that claim everyday about 135 format cameras. Sometimes people have very good justification for that claim for their applications, but much of the time it only has to do with the word ‘full’, with total disregard of what it means in practice and while misrepresenting what it means in theory.
But I’ll grant you, mirrorless does have a hype aspect to it as well.
Sony, Leica, Panasonic, Olympus and Fujifilm could deliver the deathblow to Canon and Nikon by working on an open specification FF mirrorless mount together. Maybe Sony could put the Nex FF mount under an open license and everyone else join in?
No way, Sony FF mount is an incredibly spoiled one. Only specialised sensors and expensive, overengineered lenses can offer decent quality for a such small diameter mount. No wonder why any other digital systems (where telecentricity is a high recommendation) have much bigger mount diameter compared to sensor size.
The way Leica are going they might end up making bespoke cameras to the photographers needs, Leica are too small today to be looking at multiple systems, after all it’s only that group of people who will be able to afford it. Then again it could be a way for Panasonic to produce a higher priced camera by simply producing a specific model purely badged for Leica alone and not for themselves.
This is the same Leica that has just purchased Sinar cameras then.
I can;t wait to see people bitch and complain once it is announced and it isn’t the FF, mechnical RF body for $2000 that they’ve been hoping for.
Frankly, regardless of what Pannasonic wants I doubt Leica will invite them to join anyway.
Pannasonic is a good partner for making easy cash with low-end rebadged cameras; but if Leica are targeting a medium to high end market with this, allowing Pannasonic into the party would just destroy their brand image and reduce their sales.
That assumes that Leica doesn’t want to change the business model. Or doesn’t want to enter another market segment.
Well it is true, but even the Panasonic rumour says “The new Leica system will not compete against the MFT system but play a role in a much more higher and more expensive market”. Quite contradictory with the idea of having Panasonic as part of the system I think.
We’ll see what happens, but for now the rumours are pointing to an interchangeable version of the Leica X series cameras.
That’s it. Appearently noone remembers that Leica is already branding some Panasonic lenses: 25mm, 45mm and forthcoming 15mm and 42mm.
Make an X Vario exchangeable lens camera, tell Panny what kind of lenses to do, following your high standards, put the name Leica on the front of the lens. Add 500 bucks just because you can to the already high price (based on history so far, no Leica lenses have ever been cheap).
Here you are, with a 2000 dollars/euros camera body made in Germany/Portugal, and a 2000 dollars/euros 35mm f1.4 made in Japan by Panasonic.
Perhaps a 35mm f1.4 branded summilux will cost even more..
I’m only curious to see what kind of mount they’ll choose.
An M 8.2 Mark II with M mount and high iso output, with a reasonable price, would be more than welcome. But given what Leica president said (” we’re a luxury company”) this will remain a wish.
Might the new system be partially compatible to m43, for example able to use some m43 lenses with an adapter in crop-mode or the Panasonic flashes ?
I’ll only interest if Leica stand for it’s RF camera , no SLR . As for mFT , please speed up the organic sensor , it is most important thing to achieve than anything else .
This would only really make sense if it was a FF or much larger than APS-C format. APS-C is far too close to m4/3 in size. I’ve used both 4/3 and APS-C for a long time and in practise there is very little difference between them.
Isn’t this the Leica T (701) that has been rumoured on the leica sites and discussed in the Australian magazine “Camera”. They talk about an APSC leica with a new mount German made primes and Panasonic zooms.
I was waiting for someone to mention this. Yes it seems that the president of Leica has stated that it will be an APS-C sized sensor and Panasonic will make the zooms for the system.
APS-C sensor is just too close to m4/3 in my opinion. I really can’t see Panasonic making an APS-C camera and a M4/3 camera. Producing lenses for the new format makes sense though. For me to be interested it would have to be full frame.
Does Fuji plan to make m43 sized organic sensors or only APSc sized? If it’s only an APSc sized sensor, it would then make sense for Panasonic to develop an APSc line of cameras…
http://www.43rumors.com/hot-news-panasonic-and-fuji-developed-the-first-organic-sensor/
Maybe Leica will use a 2x doubled version of the m4/3 sensor: m5/2, I bet the market is waiting for another system between APS-C and FF. Casio will produce a m2/3 camera for the lower end of the market 😛
Leica, like BMW, should leverage the name into the lower layers of the market. The full-frame segment has become a battleground for winning market share; this would be a logical step.
I don’t believe that Panasonic should be taking cues from Leica. Panasonic has more depth and experience in the field of capturing devices.
But I’d love to see a full-frame GH5.
I’d rather love to see decently priced F0.95 AF lenses for MFT.
Do you ask why?
Because if you want an MFT camera behave as an FF one, it’s perfectly enough to put an F0.95 on it and you have the DOF and the ‘high ISO’ of an FF.
But you cannot make an FF behave like an MFT due to the fact that even a compact FF body + a compact standard zoom is way too big.
Shallow DoF is just one aspect. For many of us, shooting with f0.95 lenses is more about shooting in available light keeping shutter speeds higher, using lower ISOs, than it is about shallow DoF.
At f0.95, shooting close objects is much trickier in terms of focus because of the shallow DoF. So, in those situations, as in macro shooting, manual focus is an advantage over autofocus. The further away you get, the less of an issue it is.
For that you’d do better look at t-stops instead of f-stops.
Naively, here is what I think is going on. Leica sees a competitive threat from Sony FE mount, which provides a full frame sensor that can use M lenses but also native lenses with AF. This is an immediate threat to their camera market and a long term threat to their lens market. Their response to this threat could be to come up with a new mount that readily adapts M lenses but also supports new AF lenses. As competition for FE it should support full frame sensor size.
It helps them on cost to have Panasonic involved in R&D. Panasonic has little interest in APS-C because of their MFT investment, but they also see a threat from full frame because of Sony and Olympus’s hook up with Sony, so a FF development looks beneficial to them. It would be okay to make APS-C models with the same mount.
I am just listing the pros, not the cons, the major con to me is the risk that the new system doesn’t get enough market share.
I don’t see a current rationale for an APS system, it may have made sense when E mount was APS-C only, but at this point, rebadged MFT makes more sense than new APS-C only development.
Very good points. In that scenario, there is no real negative for the M system, as the new mirrorless cam would not be a RF, so doesn’t step on the M’s toes directly.
It would make sense for the camera to use the M Mount directly, with added contacts for AF lenses. Then the new AF lenses should also work on an M body in MF mode. I wonder if this is why Panasonic introduced IBIS in the GX7, to be ready (as a company) to stabilise M mount lenses.
If the new AF lenses were high quality zooms (only 3 needed initially), then they would be welcomed by M users as well, I ‘m sure.
Well, if Panasonic bails on M43, then at least this time there is a full working range of lenses to last several years. I should have just stuck with my iPhone.
Oh great another new mount, another system. Higher end, of course. Are there enough (rich) people in the world to buy into all these myriads of camera systems?
I agree with Tom. This is a total blowback against Sony foray into small sized FF. A7 natural competitor is not d800 but m240.
So this way Leica cant claim to be only FF mirroless camera and in fighting Sony it will need all aspects of Panasonic’ expertise.
These bodies will be mirrorless with fast focus, leica will make primes, Panasonic will make zooms and it will be priced to go directly against A7 with some Leica tax on top.
After this, we will see what CaNik does….the future cant be ignored.
I guess Leica decided to ignore all the complaints about Olympus’s pricing. Well, good for them for taking a risk, but:
1) Will they have time to launch a new line of lenses when they are behind schedule for their existing products? Even with outsourcing?
2) Will they mange to invent yet another market segment?
3) Wouldn’t this eat into their M sales?
4) Why not just use M mount?
5) What about my needs!? Don’t they want my money? No… No, they don’t… 🙁
The only big news here is if m4/3 imploded under the external pressure of Sony and Leica. Is that what you mean ADMIN?
Other than that It makes good sense for any brand to have two formats, to differentiate the offer.
I keep thinking of a super 4/3 not FF35, but smaller on the sides to respect proportion. Olympus could head there, with the help of Sony, and then where would Panny be left?
It seems an era, the digital one, in which formats and mount can be prototyped in a matter of months: think of smartphones.
The problem is lenses, and then you have frankencameras, without them. Or as noted above bodies with too short distance to flange in respect to sensor’s size, making impossible demands on lenses, if they need to be small.
In retrospect m4/3 will be seen as a classic solution to have at the same time small lenses and good resolution, even across the frame.
How big do you want your lenses is really the question. Zeiss or Leica cannot really change the constraints Oly and Panny had to fight against. I am not even sure that Sony isn’t going to crash against a wall because of the conundrum to make impossible small lenses.
Yep, I also come back to what Pekka Potka calls the “Golden Compromise™” when I get excited about 35mm or APSC sensor cameras. Micro four thirds hits a sweet spot for general photography, and it gets better and better as the tech improves. The Olympus IBIS gives real advantages, high ISO shooting is good enough for most situations, and the lenses available give shallow enough DOF when wanted, but great DOF when desired for landscapes etc.
Personally, I would need to go to a medium format to get the differentiation required to add another system. But I can certainly see the attraction for many of a 35mm sensor. I’ve been following the “SoundImagePlus” blog on the Sony A7r with interest. But I can’t see Sony going the distance with lens selection. They’ll move onto something else before the system is fully mature.
Small sensor makes all the rest – responsiveness, easier to achieve. It is no accident that m4/3 get there first.
It might well be that big sensor won’t get there, big lenses being part of the problem. That is why some see a foveon in m4/3 sauce a better solution for added resolution, with no increase in the lenses.
If you start playing with sensors, size is just a variable. You can also stack them. Remember that in film large formats, except a v. short time, were always a niche. Leica was liberating not only for the small body, but for the small lenses too.
OK, Make it fuji X mount…(please somebody wake me up)
It’s going to be Mirrorless FF with a full selection of Leica/Panasonic Autofocus lenses, and it will be video friendly in it’s Panasonic Form. It’s leica form will be more photo centric.
Also consider the Fuji/Panasonic development of Organic sensors and Fuji is rumored to also be going FF. I could see Panasonic manufacturing the Fuji Organic FF sensors for both Fuji and Leica with some AA filter/electronic differences. Panasonic would also make a 43 sensor with the same technology.
So we will see one camp of Panasonic/Fuji/Leica and the other of Sony/Oly/Others. It’ll be interesting to see where Nikon and Canon will get their sensors from in the future. I don’t believe either of them have invested in the development of organic sensors.
Guys, don’t get your hopes up.
Leica has already announced that their new system will be APS-C. It will be a Vario with interchangeable lenses.
Panasonic will not join in this system if their MFT camera’s have nearly the same size of sensor.
A trusted source has told me that Mamiya and Sinar are not releasing MFT cameras either… Real shame, I was really looking forward to it 🙁
Well, if it is something like medium format, Leica needs sensors, they used to use Kodak, which seems like a dead end. Having panasonic provide the sensors seems to make sense. And as an offshoot, Panasonic can throw out a body or two for kicks.
It’d be interesting seeing a NMOS/CMOS medium format sensor!
Yep, we know it won’t be m4/3, rather APS-C…
http://lavidaleica.com/content/new-leica-mirrorless-january-february
I find the idea of mirrorless Medium Format intriguing, even if I couldn’t afford it. It would allow Panasonic to outflank Sony on ultimate image quality, and add prestige to Panasonic’s m4/3rds line. Panasonic brand loyalists could move up if they had the money and the inclination.
The question of energy has been raised. Would Panasonic have the energy and the resources to both partner Leica and to raise m4/3rds to its full potential?
I don’t think it will hurt the m43 market that bad. If the Leica body is APS-C and really made in Germany, it would be 1500+ for sure and most people with this kind of money won’t choose m43 anyway.
I think everyone is forgetting the interview with Lecia’s CEO just a few weeks ago. It doesn’t sound like Panasonic is involved at all other than possibly making some zoom lenses for it.
‘When asked will there ever be a Leica compact system camera:
“We will have one, definitely. And it will, of course, be quite different to M system. We want to have autofocus with such a system and we may well have an APSC size sensor rather than a bigger one……. It will be a German built camera, however I’m not sure we can make all of the lenses made in Germany because we are talking about a different price range to M system so I could imagine that we do some fixed focal length lenses in Germany and maybe with the zooms we will co-operate with a partner”
He stresses that Leica won’t be building on Panasonic’s Micro Four Thirds format.’
Whoops. Looks like this was already mentioned above. It wasn’t showing up for me when I posted.
haha it needed re-stating
leica is real fo sure will never join this joke of system they will lose face simple no one want to join just panafail and oly that will broke very son cuz just fanboys buy thier camera
I think everyone is missing this point. A lot of photographers are looking at the Fuji “X” series as the “Poor Mans Leica”. Since it’s inception, it’s done fairly well… Not Great, but Good. It has a APS-C sensor, nice filters and retro rangefinder styling throughout the line. A direct attack to Leica and it’s looks.
I think Leica is planning a system to rival Fuji, at a slightly higher price range, with the lenses to match Fuji’s. Aperture rings and all. I see that Panasonic, adding Aperture rings to it’s latest M43 lenses is a sign of what they’re planning to do.
I hope I’m right… I’ve BEEN hoping Panasonic does FF or APS-C, because I feel there is only so much they can get out of a 16mp 43 sensor. All it’s going to be is slight improvements, and most of that would come from the latest cameras engine, so why not go larger? I feel that it’s a must.
Panasonic is also going smaller. They just put their newest sensor in the smallest M43 camera ever. To me, that’s another sign. There’s no longer a need to skimp on sensors, because going forward, they will be developing new APS-C sensors, so why not use the best 43 sensors for their M43 cameras?
Even if Panasonic does go FF or APS-C, I feel that their M43 will still have it’s place, as long as they keep it small. I hope that the next GH camera is APS-C. That would be one beast of a Hybrid camera!
If you look at any properly controlled tests between same generation 4/3″ and aps-c sensors you’ll see the gains from the tiny bit more surface area are as expected, tiny.
A APS-C sensor with the latest engines Image Quality will Allways look better than ANY 43 sensor with their latest engines… you say tiny, some will say MUCH better.
Everyone knows that with the 43 sensor, High ISO sucks compared to APS-C or FF sensors. Anything over 1600 from the 43 sensor will get annihilated by APS-C and FF.
Ah yes, those APS-C sensors are gigantic compared to 4/3″ sensors…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sensor_sizes_overlaid_inside.svg
I suppose you are informed enough to understand that surface area of the sensor is what causes the difference in performance (provided the sensors use the same technology). As you can clearly see the difference is already small when looking in horizontal (landscape) direction, and is extremely tiny in vertical direction.
So, given the same technology, there is a difference, but that difference is as tiny as the difference in area (because that is what causes the difference to begin with).
But hey, keep repeating the rubbish your masters are paying you for.
m43 should have been mAPS-C from the beginning. Huge mistake on the part of Olympus and Panasonic. Would have been spared of 99% of the fanboy hate. Panasonic can afford to bail on m43 and start over for APS-C and FF. Olympus is too invested in 4/3 and m43 and will have to see it through and hope enough fanboys buy and update their gear every year to survive.
The way Panasonic is going, M43 may be the new point and shoot. In a good way, I might add. The point and shoot for professionals.
Wow you are dumber than a box of monkeys, Panasonic is making the zooms for the new Leica APSC auto focus camera, big deal, they are not leaving M43.
Um, Obviously you’re even much dumber than that! NOBODY said they were leaving M43! Hahaha! That’s the problem with dummies… selective reading makes them even dumber.