A source, who was right in the past, and is on the best way to become trusted, told me that the Fuji manager, who said the firmware will come on the 22, is wrong, and the firmware will come on the 25th, as usual early in the morning London Time… of course if Fuji doesn’t find a last second bug 😉
I have no reason to doubt this source, and if this rumor is correct too, it will become a trusted source. For me, the new release date is the 25.
Oh, just to let you know:
– Fuji Manager: “FW 4 will come on the 22”
– Fuji France: “FW 4 will come on the 21”
– FujiRumors: “FW 4 will come on the 25”
at least we agree on “late June” 😉
Fuji France says FW 4 will come on the 21… that’s not the information I have, though
59 Responses
Is it too late for suggestions, because I’d really, truly like for this update to add the ability to embed copyright details in EXIF.
It is a little late. I am planning a travel in the last week of June. I hope it does not come out after I set off.
Same situation. The original 6/18 date was just perfect. Then 6/22. Now 6/25. Maybe the release date should be officially changed to “the day after t_linn gets back from vacation.”
I know: whiner.
So you go to a place with no electricity and no computers? If so I really hope you let us see the pictures.
FWIW, I rarely have good internet access in wilderness areas. That said, I’m not sure how electricity and computers (I assume you mean internet access) makes a difference if the firmware release date is pushed back to after I return.
Have a good trip ☺
Thanks, Bengt.
Oh wait… everyone just pre-ordered the Sony A7rII…
Because everyone needs a 40mpx full frame sensor in a 3000$ body… yes, that’s what we all did… switched to Sony.
Sorry fujirumors, but this site is as good as dead now that Sony released YET ANOTHER a7 that we’re all preordering RIGHT NOW. It was great while it lasted.
Hah… just think of all the other releases they’ll have by the time the X-Pro2 finally get announced.
To be clear, I’m shooting 100% digitally on Fuji at the moment (x100s and X-T1) as well as a lot of MF film. But is anyone really content with this sensor anymore? I love the look, feel, and manual controls of the Fuji cameras but would kill for that Sony full frame sensor inside. I’m not opposed to APS-C if they could make it at least somewhat comparable but it’s just been too long w/o an update. I’m pretty serious about making the switch this time. I hate the sony look and feel but just about everything is better on that camera minus the manual controls.
Fully agree. I like Fuji look, feel and design, and hate Sony look and menu but when I shooted A7 with a few C/Y Zeiss primes, I was amazed with IQ of the files I got compared to X-E2 with Fuji primes. It was another level. Now A7rII looks really great and have new sensor that is more sensitive about 1-1,5 stop vs A7r with some amazing features, including APS-C crop 18MP mode… it’s first time I am serious to switch beeing a bit tired of waiting to see if X-Pro2 will receive organic sensor or same old tech X-Trans…
To be honest, I wish Fuji would just give us a good hint at what’s coming down the pipeline. I see it like this…
Fuji drops some news on what’s in store for the X-Pro2 and if I like what I’m hearing I would wait until the end of year for it to be released. I’m fully invested in their glass (14, 23, 27, 35, 56) and would love to carry that over to the X-Pro2.
They don’t drop any news, I’m likely to switch to the A7rII and start investing in that system, at which point I doubt I would return to fuji.
No matter what Fuji tells us it’s not going to really effect Sony’s strategy. They have way more money & Marketing dollars and are clearly focused on putting out the latest and greatest sensors and tech.
For me to stay with fuji the sensor doesn’t necessarily have to be on par with Sony (I doubt it will be), it just needs to be a lot better, or close. The look, feel, and controls of Fuji would be enough to get me to stay. So c’mon Fuji…haven’t we been patient enough… give us something to work with. Should the X-Pro 2 come out and not be what I want, it’s not like I’m going to buy it just cause I waited. You have nothing to lose…
Fuji seems to concentrate their R&D money on pumping out great lenses, while Sony is kind of the opposite (focusing on sensors and bodies). Until yesterday I thought Fuji had the better strategy, but after seeing the A7rII I’m not sure anymore. Maybe in the digital age it’s better to just keep pumping out bodies with improved sensor tech, and just make them easy to use with 3rd party lenses with adapters.
Pumping out bodies faster than wild cats breed has to significant drawbacks imho 1- to my wallet 2- their software engineers do not have the time to get to know the hardware, and get thje most out of it. Hence the feeling of ‘unfinished product’ UNLESS what Sony (and Nikon) does is releasing improvements with a new body for $$$ when Fuji is releasing them via free software update
Fuji’s free updates in a way makes it catch up with Sony bodies a little bit. AF sensors are built into cmos to begin with. Sony already squeezed all out in the beginning while Fuji spent 9 month or so after becoming available on the market.
Just enough time for the Fuji engineers to learn the ropes. They probably don’t have access to the sensor at the same time as the Sony engineers
I made a little changes to my previous comment.
The point is, Sony does not have a glitch in functions to begin with on most bodies. What they lack of is a good UI. I somehow believe the raw compression is a hardware issue. Their high speed circuit probably was customized to handle 12-bit raw.
Sony is a company of engineers – Fuji is a company of photographers; That’s how I see them.
I have no problem with that. Cameras are tools anyway.
So in short you rather buy a new camera each year instead of receiving free firmware updates?
C’mon its only a few month before Fuji will release their 24MP backlit sensor with a gazzillion AF points.
We all know that Fuji was waiting for a new sensor, probably based upon the same technology as this new Sony FF sensor.
Enjoy photography instead of complaining about your gear like little kids in the candy store.
It’s been only a few months for a few years…
While they seem to have done a great job feature wise, they still limit the A7rII with lossy compressed RAW files.
That said, I do wish Fuji would introduce their own full frame camera with the D810’s sensor and a set of three fast primes at launch. But, sadly, that is not going to happen.
I doubt Sony could mass produce these sensors fast enough to let everyone has it.
The problem is we’re talking about Sony. I don’t doubt their technical prowess but I question their commitment to customer service. I remember Roger over at lensrentals.com writing a blog post about a Sony lens that was badly decentered but Sony wouldn’t fix it because it wasn’t technically out of spec. That is what scares me about Sony.
I also think it’s fair to point out that anyone who moved from a heavy DSLR to Fuji because it is a more compact and lightweight system is heading right back in the other direction.
I wholeheartedly agree with your first paragraph.
If the second one means that people are selling their Fuji in droves to buy back their former (or different) brand I do not see any sign of that in the real world around me.
I agree, for me size is the biggest issue with sony. Everyone says that in order to get good glass for FF you need bigger glass. I’d rather have great slower (F/2) primes in a leica size.
Had the same idea. Why does Fuji give us a lens roadmap but not also a camera roadmap? They make more money with lenses anyway.
because the tech inside a body can change overnight; and they do not want to over promise; In case they hit a road block (re what was said about the organic sensor and over heating)
whilst the laws of optics have not changed in several millions years – at least – that makes predictability somewhat easier 🙂
Hi, I know what you want to say, but here is the counter argument:
1. Fuji doesn’t tell us lens details in the lens road map, and if so (like f-numbers) they also do last-minute changes (compare the changes of the xf100-400 from 4-5.6 or 4.5-5.6 or constant f4
2. The physical laws might not change but the software in the lenses. Lenses also receive firmware upgrades. So, again, Fuji still do lens roadmaps. Software isn’t a problem.
3. Bodies aren’t more expensive than lenses. Some lenses are even more expensive than camera bodies.
Result, it seems it’s a strategic decision not to provide a camera roadmap. It’s not a reason related to technology.
But still, why?
The fuji sensor is fine for me, otherwise I would not have bought the camera. This new announcement from Sony has not suddenly made my camera sensor worse. I don’t plan on upgrading the body anytime soon, it is producing professional quality images my clients are perfectly happy with. I doubt they would even notice if I upgraded my kit to Sony, but my bank manage would. Bad case of GAS here I see.
I don’t care what my clients think… I didn’t start shooting for money or clients and thats not what matters to me now. I also own an X100s and love it, I didn’t need to switch to the X100T when it came out. GAS is a real issue for some people but thats not the case here. The case is that Fuji is slipping with hardware… they need a new sensor and the X-Pro1 cycle is soooo long in this day and age. They need a new sensor to stay competitive. While YOU don’t need a new camera now there are plenty of people who are ready to upgrade or buy a camera and in the current market I can’t see much of a reason to go with Fuji. If you want this relationship with Fuji to last, they need to statist the market…otherwise there will be no fuji cameras in the future….
I’m using a camera with a 16MP, 2/3″ sensor, and dreaming of the 16MP, APS-C sensor. So, yes, I would be very content with it, and probably many more like me. I honestly can’t see myself with a Sony A7whatever.
But, let’s put that aside, and suppose I were contemplating the switch. Out of curiosity, how many firmware updates has Sony released for the earlier A7 models? I don’t mean updates that work with new lenses, either, but updates that add serious features found on they’ve just released. Does Sony release firmware updates with new features for two year-old cameras, even older? Do they have a lossless RAW available yet? Do they have stunning JPG output in the vast majority of circumstances?
I understand the answers to these questions to be negative; correct me if I’m wrong. (I’m not well-informed on Sony, just a few things I read from time to time.) But supposing I’m right, are you willing to pay that much for a new camera that isn’t branded “Leica”? If so, then go for it. I have no doubt that a lot of photographers benefit from full-frame, 50MP sensors, and Sony’s hardware looks cutting-edge indeed. But I, as a hobbyist, really can’t see myself ever doing that. I’m torn between m43, Fuji, and Samsung, but due to long experience I expect I’ll be in the Fuji APS-C boat before long.
I understand what your trying to say, and agree that fuji does a lot of great things. As I mentioned, besides shooting MF film, fuji is all I shoot digitally. There’s a couple issues I have though:
1. As great as it is that they’re putting out this firmware update, I don’t care. For me the best update they did was classic chrome, as I love their jpegs and this was a great addition. Do you need faster AF or continuous AF? I don’t, I use single point AF and it’s already fast enough for me. If I was shooting sports I wouldn’t be using Fuji or mirrorless anyways. I had a 5D MKii forever that I loved. It was a good camera out of the box and never needed an update.
2. Lossless RAW? This is a joke right… We own Fuji systems..we should be the last people to criticize another manufacture on RAW. I shoot almost everything Jpeg as working with Fuji RAW is a nightmare (whether its fuji’s fault or Adobe’s etc is not the issue). Also, I’ve used the Sony RAW files, it’s absolutely not an issue and everyone knows it. If you want to knock them, hit them with something like horrible menus, looks, layout, manual controls, or something that’s actually worth hating them for.
3. For a hobbyist Fuji is amazing, and m not suggesting you switch. But shoot a portrait, a landscape, or a macro shot with both cameras (as I did) and you’ll see just how much you’re missing. Give me great light and optimal conditions and I’ll take a stunning picture with my phone… its everywhere else that you’ll see the difference in work with with the images.
Lossless RAW: Since I’m not married to an Adobe product, this isn’t a joke. Certainly a lot of people don’t like it. I don’t know if it’s enough for them to switch; I just cite it as one of a number of things I would consider, especially from a $3200 body.
Completely lossless raw is really not that necessary when you have so much superfluous resolution to make up for it. Besides, I have yet to see an example that convincingly demonstrates that the Sony raw files somehow show compression artifacts or sub-par quality of any kind in practice.
How do you view this? Genuinely curious, not trying to be argumentative or anything. I don’t do this for a living, but I do hand-brew my own software for my own camera’s Raw files, and I would hate to have to deal with this.
http://diglloyd.com/blog/2014/20140212_2-SonyA7-RawDigger-posterization.html
Do I get you correctly – you are writing your own raw converter ? For Fuji files ?
I wrote that poorly; let me correct it. I have an X10, which uses the great, 2/3″ EXR sensor. Having already been disappointed with SilkyPix (included) and CaptureOne (paid), I don’t want to pay for Adobe products, nor Iridient. I want to use open source software.
Unfortunately, most open source software (RawTherapee, darktable, …) doesn’t see the shorter exposure in a dual-exposure EXR file, so I use the one program that does (dcraw) to convert the raw file to 16-bit tiff’s (this captures all the information in the 12-bit raw), then use my own software to combine the tiff’s, then proceed to RawTherapee or whatever.
So, while my software does deal with the Raw files, it does so indirectly: after I convert them to TIFF’s.
The relevance to the question at hand is that if the raw files were noisy on account of lossy compression, then the tiff’s would bring that over, and I’d have to figure out how to fix that. — Assuming I’d be in the position I am now, which to be fair I wouldn’t, since Sony’s sensors have very good software support, better than X-Trans. But you never now.
aaahh OK, makes sense. I did not realise that RT was not using the full capabilities of dcraw. Thanks for the tip. Then a bit of ImageMagick to create a small jpeg thumbnail (easier to browse) from then on it is not rocket science to write a small DAM program with a proper & clean database engine (not the smallish one in use atm) a dash of Exiftool (or a library like exivv2) to extract the exif informations and use RT to handle the rest of the development. mmmmh food for thoughts 🙂
That’s actually quite interesting, 32×32 blocks are certainly large enough to make a difference even when downsampled to sensible output resolutions, considering that even the 8×8 blocks JPEG compression performs the DCT on often cause visible artifacting.
I don’t think the problem is the fact that raw files are compressed per se. With this kind of resolution, uncompressed raw would significantly slow down write speeds and result in ludicrous file sizes (the D800 series doesn’t really address that problem and only works around it with measures like a large buffer, but you are left with the huge files as a user), and I’m not sure if lossless compression would be enough to solve all that for Sony. It’s one of the tradeoffs of Sony trying to market such a camera to gearheads as an everyday camera, unlike say Hasselblad, whose audience is fine with 100mb files and very slow burst rates.
Still, looking at that algorithm, it should actually be trivial for the encoder in the camera to detect blocks that would show artifacting and selectively encode those differently or with higher bit rate/depth. That’s a serious oversight on Sony’s part.
I had been under the impression that artifacts of an algorithm like that (posterization and so on) would essentially be like dithering and mitigated by the inevitable downsampling that happens with such huge files, but it apparently being block based with blocks that large of course means I was definitely wrong.
Anyway, the compression wouldn’t be the main reason for me to not buy that Sony. The compression issue is just one more fact that shows that that thing was obviously spec’d by the marketing department and built to appeal to people who care more about cameras than about photography, I suppose the reason why they do that is that they primarily sell bodies and not a whole lot of lenses. In contrast, Fuji’s cameras, while they do have their weaknesses, actually make sense. And if I really felt compelled to waste that much money on a really expensive and lightweight camera, I’d probably go for that new Leica Q. It may be aimed the more-taste version of the Hasselblad Lunar’s audience, but it is actually a camera that was quite obviously built with photography in mind.
Thanks; your reply has been more informative than most of what I’ve read on the subject. 🙂
Everyone wants the newest, greatest camera, with all the features. But, when one searches online for decent photos from those cameras, it is sadly very difficult to find a nice image, let alone a great image. So, many may dump $3k on this megapixel monster, which is limited to lossy compressed files (shockingly), without even trying it to see if they like it, in hopes of taking great photos. But, I am sure, once it is out, I will see many images from it on Flickr that are hardly distinguishable from any other camera. Plus, most lenses do not resolve even 36 megapixels. So, is it merely a marketing gimmick.
Don’t get me wrong. I am hoping Fuji brings something special with the next sensor they use, or considers full frame or medium format. However, I am not sold on this megapixel race, which is largely due to the weaknesses of the Bayer sensor ~ it doesn’t resolve at its stated resolution, due to interpolation. A 1:1 full frame sensor with 20 – 30 mps with decent high ISO performance would be far better than a 40-50mp Bayer sensor, in my opinion.
Fuji is killing it with the firmware updates! Treating cameras like the electronic devices they really are and offering regular software updates should be industry standards. Cell phones, tablets, computers… even my motorcycle Bluetooth headset gets regular updates, so why not cameras? Good on you Fuji, setting the standard for this.
I agree. But they still have to stay competitive with the hardware and they’re falling way behind. They either need to drop a killer APS-C sensor or put out a MF mirrorless.
I am convinced that the hardware is not used to it’s full capacity.
Hardly anyone here seems to realise the time it takes for software developpers to learn how to get the most out of an hardware platform. Otherwise firmware 4 would never have been possible: same hardware, different ways to utilise it -> bang.
Just remember that it took YEARS to the games developpers to use the Sony PS-3 and its 3 IBM Cell processors to a decent level (and I did not write to it’s full potential) it’s only the very latest games which had a breathtaking display . Just before Sony released the PS-4.
Kudos to Fuji to keep on working on the platform to try ans sqeeze every last drop of performance and capabilities. This is the benefit of keeping the platform somewhat stable for a number of years.
While I love he firmware updates, and don’t think Fuji should stop doing them (Sony should start doing them) this doesn’t really mean much to me. Everyone is so excited about the update and the face that Fuji cares, but I’m not sold on this update. Faster AF? It’s fast enough for me already. People who are serious about continuos AD and sports shooting should probably stick to DSLR’s anyways. Anyone who’s shot sports seriously with a DSLR will know just how inferior errorless systems and lenses are for this. At the end of the day the FW update won’t change the sensor… and that’s the only thing i’m complaining about. Give me a good new sensor and I’ll stick with Fuji. It doesn’t even need to be FF, it just needs to look somewhat as good as Sony…and it’s not even close at the moment. This is pixel peeping or GAS, anyone who’s ever shot with both (I only own fuji) has seen what a dramatic difference it is between two images taken with the two cameras.
I hear what you say (or rather write) but I don’t get it at all.
May be not valid for sports shooters but will help every one needing to follow fast moving subjects (say kids, dogs, cars, speedsails, ….) for FREE – courtesy of Fuji R&D and also several other goodies.
The fact that Sony launches a new body does not detract from the quality of the existing Fuji. When I jumped on the Fuji bandwagon I was over the moon with the quality I had (color, definition etc …) compared to my big Nikons, and in a fairly small, light and pretty inexpensive (all else being equal) package. It has not become obsolete overnight. and I am personally far from outperforming my cameras.
Now if you are absolutely adamant you need to spend money on a new body (new sensor) otherwise your photographic production suffers and you will lose business, then that’s another story.
Even the firmware update must be delayed. No wonder xpro2 takes ages to see the light. My local store has D3300 for $400 and NX500 for $749 both with kit lens. Both make Fuji’s 16MP look expensive to be honest.
“Must be delayed” we are talking days which is not a delay. What do you believe can be achieved in 4 days for a worlwide launch of a major update ?. May be another round of tests to ensure that under no circumstances your beloved X-T1 will be bricked.
Nikon kit lens is a joke, nowhere near Fuji’s “kit lens” quality (I won’t talk about the NX500 I never used their products). Have you had a D3xxx in hand ? I personally don’t know where to put my fingers;
Ah we have a troll in the house.
First the kit lens of the Nikon is a joke
Second the X-T1 is a much better camera then the NX500
Third, a camera is not about the number of megapixels, but about the total system, lens lineup, customer support and handling. This is where Samsung is miles behind.
oh the irony.
The firmwareupdate for the D3300 will probably be called D3500 and be released in a year
And the NX1 (the big brother to the castrated NX500) had it’s firmwareupdate delayed by weeks
Don’t buy it then.
Fuji never gave a specific date, they said Late June. The 25th is late June so it’s still not delayed.
The 22 was only a rumour.
At a press conference, a Japanese Fuji Manager said June 22. Fujifilm France Tweeted June 21. So these are two official “leaks” of Fujifilm.
My source says it will be the 25th.
I trust my source, but anyway, it’s late June ;).
Tokyo’s 7 hours ahead of Paris, so it will be June 22 in Japan while it’s still June 21 in France.
Fujifilm announced basically every lens, camera or firmware early in the morning Paris time (so midday in Tokyo). I would be surprised if this time it would be different.
Hey Patrick, since yesterday, most of the times I open fuji rumours on ny iPhone I get redirected to the app store to buy sime game… Someone is spaming this link….
Same here. Until now it only rarely happened, now it’s most of the times. Extremely annoying, please check on that advertising firm of yours!
hm… that’s extremely annoying, and I do not want this on FujiRumors. I never allowed this kind of ad. I’ve now contacted ad provider and asked to remove it. I hope it works now