A trusted source just told me that in early 2015 we will see a new Fujifilm X-series entry level camera.
My very personal guess is that it will be either the successor of the Fujifilm X-A1 or the replacement of the Fujifilm X-M1… but as said, it’s just my guess. It could be something different.
I’m not sure it makes much sense to put R&D into the entry-level market, so for now I’m not really excited about this camera. But nevertheless, also this time, I’ll spend all the time & energy I can invest to find out more about it… and I hope to be pleasantly surprised soon.
It’s known that the X-M1 and X-A1 were not the big hit for Fujifilm… but what’s bad for Fujifilm, is very good for those looking for a cheap entry level X. Just look for Fujifilm X-A1 offers here and Fujifilm X-M1 deals here. Or get the X-M1 + 18mm $300 off at Adorama.
Stay tuned and feel free to share rumors by contacting me via email at fujirumor [at] gmail [dot] com or 100% anonymously via rumor box (possibly using a nick-name so that I can recognize you in future).
149 Responses
Are you sure it will be interchangeable lenses? or could it be a larger sensor, fixed-lens camera to compete with the likes of the recent Panasonic, Sony, & Canon premium compacts?
My first thought as well. Perhaps X40 with MFT sensor, attack on Pany LX100? (fingers crossed)
If X-A1 had a EVF, it would be bigger hit for Fujifilm. X-A1′ bayer colours and IQ beats X-Trans.
I doubt they’ll put an EVF in an entry level model for cost reasons. Has anybody ever done a meaningful comparison between the X-A1 and another x-trans camera to prove it has better colours and image quality? I’ve seen some forum posts but nothing definitive.
I’d be very interested in that as well. Though one would have to do the comparison with a third party raw conversion software like Capture One in order to be meaningful. The JPEG engines of the two cameras are are optimized for different audiences (color, noise reduction, saturation etc.).
Hmm, as I remember one of Fuji representatives said they made mistake launching so many cameras, so IMO this one should replace alle entry-level ILC, or it is something completely different…
I remember them just saying, that in future they will need just one entry level camera, so one of two lines will continue: X-A2 or X-M2
X-AM2 with stylish body, Bayer CFA, electronic shutter with 1/32000, Classic Chrome, Pro Neg, Wi-Fi remote, touchscreen and new XC 23mm f/2 lens for double lens kits. That would be nice! 🙂
well said… and add the 24MP Sony Sensor of the A6000, and I’ll buy one as a back-up camera to my beloved X-E2.
Yeah I hope for Bayer sensor too! Maybe with a lower spec evf styled like the xt1 to conpete with the Olympus em5?
EVF in the next entry-level Fuji camera is impossible. This is the strongest wall between the amateur and prosumer lineups. Not just here (look at the Olympus OM-D vs PEN series).
Exactly what I kept saying when the A came out… Fuji is diluting the X with this A and M line. I was quite violently shut down on dpreview.
Yup, I recall that too. I just don’t buy this rumor anyway. Seems like they will be discontinuing a few entry level cameras and the next will be the X Pro 2. There has been just to much chatter on high to think they would do anything else. And for those who keep pointing to the competitors, those cameras are not without faults / shortcomings.
A merging of the A1/M1 line would be sensible. As a Fuji shooter who works in camera retail I feel the thing that holds the entry X’s back most is a lack of compact zoom kit lens.
The XC 16-50 might be a fine lens but to average joe consumer it’s just too big. Sony’s 16-50 pancake is a bucket of sh!t but sells well on size alone.
It’s a shame because the Fuji’s offer such pleasing colour under almost any lighting condition which would be a huge benefit to casual shooters.
An XC series of slower primes eg 23mm 2.8 would be swell
or an xc 100-400 🙂
But on the serious side. som “cheap” but well buildt xc primes would be nice. 12 or 23, and maybe a xc 10-24 😀
Inexpensive small primes – like those Sigma lenses for the NEX – would be very welcome. A 35mm equiv (23mm) 2.8 pancake would be fab.
Those sony primes (20) looks even smaller. Not sure about iq though. A 23mm pancake would be a welcomed addition!
I think the fail of entry level Fuji CSCs caused by the lack of cheap (or relatively cheap) lenses.
Just think about it:
23mm f/1.4 + 35mm f/1.4 + 56mm f/1.2 = 2500 dollars
I’m not buy an EVF-less, cheapo, amateur, entry level body for 500 if I want to spend thousands of dollars. But the opposite is also true: If my budget is only few hundred dollars, I don’t want a Fujifilm camera, because there is no lens that fit to my wallet.
Yeah that’s a problem (at the moment), even the 27mm is expensive.
The X-A1/M1 16-55 + 55-230mm kit can be had cheap, but that’s about it.
If they’re going to continue this entry-level segment, they’ll need to offer some more affordable lens options to go with it.
Maybe start with something like a 40mm F2 pancake.
They should just sell the 27mm for $200 like they did earlier in the year
Totally agree!
I think part of the reason the entry level models (X-M1, X-A1) weren’t so popular is because Fuji intentionally took away some of the biggest things that make the X series desirable. They’re uninspiring, like an entry-level model from any other manufacturer, only with Fuji styling. And I’m not just talking about the EVF. If an EVF is too costly to manufacture at that price point, that’s unfortunate, but understandable.
Rather, the control scheme. If I want PASM I can buy from basically any manufacturer on the market. A Fuji camera should have a shutter speed dial! This would have zero impact on the manufacturing cost, but would send an important message that this is a different kind of camera, perhaps humbler than the higher-end models, but no less serious. There’s also no reason to artificially restrict the firmware. The entry-level models should have all the same features, including all the film simulation modes, as higher-end ones.
For the entry-level models, Fuji should focus on cutting the cost *only*, and not on dumbing them down artificially. People want a less expensive camera, but not a dumbed-down camera. They may be thrifty, but they don’t want to look like cheapskates. (Etc.)
tl;dr X-M1 and X-A1 were unattractive to customers because Fuji intentionally decided to make them unattractive. It’s no great mystery. Hopefully they will decide differently next time around.
EDIT: Oh, also. They should offer a kit with the XF27, rather than a cheap XC zoom!
no EVF, no Party
Big advantage of using the LCD screen is that you keep the camera at a lower position. So it gives another composition. It also looks less like you are making pictures which is good on the street. I love my X-M1 for this. It’s very discrete this way with sounds off too.
I purchased the X-M1 precisely for this reason, i.e., no viewfinder – just rear LCD. I’ve always hated squinting with just one eye through any kind of viewfinder. Tilting LCD screen was a big bonus as well.
I think the biget reason why they didn’t sell very good was , a quite big zoom, and the fact that they dont have enough “funny” extras, like panorama-and different filters an mass.
For me it was a great deal to get both the xc zooms and body for 700$ to see if I really wantet an interchangeble camera again. I was touring with two instead, One zoom, one prime. I wanted the bigger sensor most of all.
I have to agree. Stop with the entry levels. That’s what iPhones are for. I don’t want to sound greedy, but they should work on maximizing the X-E1, E2, and X-T1 potential. And round out the lenses as well. Stop spending R&D on entry level which amount to nothing.
Iphones are still easily killed by the x30, so consider an entry level apsc if entry levels are at least a bit interested in picture quality … That said smartphones have a unique quality they are always with you
Hey Fujifilm –
If it takes making yet another entry-level camera that FR geeks don’t care about,
for you to get profitable and have an R+D budget that could result in a future top-line camera that you might make a loss on but that FR geeks WILL care about,
be my guest!
My guess is a discontinue of the A series and just a simple product update from the X-M1 (X-M2) which will be fine enough. All of the features that have come with the current X cameras, electronic shutter with 1/32000, Classic Chrome, Pro Neg, Wi-Fi remote, touchscreen and some more function buttons to stay up to date.
I think, like someone else mentioned for most consumers isn’t the interface or menu system but it’s the lens more then anything. For most consumers the lens simply looks too big for them but something like the NX300 and A5000 with it’s collapsible zoom lens is ideal to fit in a pocket and I think Fuji would do well to have that kind of lens. Maybe later on they could sell an attachable EVF or include one should people choose to want it.
new x-camera? low model?
meanwhile:
Sony: A7 II + A9
Olympus: new sensors and High Level Camera is coming
Samsung: NX1
well done fujfilm, it will be a great innovation
Totally a smart comment.
You’re angry at a rumour, not Fuji.
No Pro?
No, just Amateur 🙂
I would be interested if it had EVF like Sony RX100iii. Or maybe even if it just had tilt screen – would be nice for really compact street photography with the 27mm pancake on it. My X-Pro1 and X-E2 are a bit bigger and no tilt screen. Cheaper than buying an X-100T when you already have the 27mm.
All right Fujifilm. Give us X-A2 with Bayer and with some improvements – Pro Neg, 14Bit, 1/32000 electronic shutter and add a few samll lenses like 16mm f/2, 23mm f/2, 55mm f/2 and I will go for Fuji. I just do not like your bulky primes 23/1.4, 56/1.2 that also focuses rather slow and are too expensive. New 16/1.4 is going also to be a big lens. Give as compact lenses for street, reportage and photojournalism and they will certainly bea hit.
I wouldn’t call the 23mm 1.4 expensive for what you get. It’s the one lens I would rebuy immediately should something happen to it.
It is the only lens I use 🙂
And it isn’t slow to focus at all.
Pretty much all of your criticisms are wack.
still waiting on the X70…X100 minus the viewfinder. The Ricoh GR is a swell camera, but I would like to have 1 workflow and thus would prefer all Fuji
seriously? you’re waiting for a camera without a viewfinder? haha! Canon s100?
that’s a dumb statement. You are going to compare a camera which would have all the attributes of an X100, including controls, build quality, and image quality, but without a viewfinder to a zoom point and shoot with a small sensor? Try again foo
The big selling point of the X100 series is the RF style viewfinder!
yeah, and it is a great camera. But it isn’t pocketable like the GR. I have an X-Pro for when I want/need a VF, which isn’t always
More marketing products? no more innovation from Fuji? FF? MF?
X pro 2 ????
Something bad is happening with the X-Pro 2… Technical issues, delays, or a too-ambitious design specs… Its unthinkable for Fuji not to work on the successor to the Pro1, when other mirrorless manufacturers have gone through two iterations of their flagship bodies. So something must have not been going well with the next Fuji flagship.
Everyone complains when a Fuji cam is not perfect out of the box, needing all those silly firmware updates. So maybe they are perfecting the Xpro2. It will be expensive and top of the line so they better get it right!
I think it makes sense. Fujifilm has a very user friendly interface and some great features that ‘beginners’ will and do appreciate (as well as the more advanced users) like the film simulations, expanded dynamic range, and in-camera raw converter to fix any mistakes or get creative. Their automatic scene detection is also very good, and the live-view layout pleasantly simplistic (imho), etc.
Get a few of those starter kits over the counter, more happy customers, more money in the bank to get our equipment the funding it deserves. It’s not like there are two people working there, if they need more staff they get more staff. 😉
First you’d have to get the kits on the counter. I haven’t ever seen a Fuji interchangeable lens in person, and I’ve visited lots of big box stores in the US, as well as a military PX abroad. I haven’t seen them in the European storefronts.
Half of sales is just being there, guys! Commodore Business Machines had the greatest personal computer of the mid to late 80s, but they refused to advertise or put the Amigas in venues where ordinary folk would happen on them & inquire about them. If Fuji wants to take that model, okay, fine, but there’s a reason CBM went bankrupt in the mid 90s… and it certainly wasn’t their superior technology that did it!
Yeah, well, we’re in the 21st century.
It sure is important to be present in brick & mortar locations if you’re going to sell to beginners, however it’s certainly *not as important* as in the 80’s.
Now even beginners with some interest in shooting with something better than a cellphone can Google “best camera for a beginner” and land online reviews featuring Fuji products, complete with the Amazon link to order them.
The power of brand names is such that the likelihood someone will actually follow through is pretty low unless they can handle it in a store. They may well buy it online (some actually prefer not to, preferring instantaneous brick-and-mortar returns & replacements to waiting for the mail) but going into a store, seeing it, wondering, “hmm, isn’t this the thing I’ve heard of?” and being able to experiment with it goes a lot farther than merely good reviews — which are typically held suspect as being bought & paid for, anyway.
overall good point
I agree that people prefer handling a prospective camera before buying it, and that goes for power users as well.
However you shouldn’t underestimate how popular buying electronic gadgets on Amazon has become. Reading reviews other users left under the product description page.
Also, professional reviews/roundups. Type generic queries like “best phone 2014” or “best laptop 2014″on a search engine and you’ll see that the demand is there. People who don’t know what to buy have the reflex to Google it. They’ll even *Youtube* it – to watch video reviews.
Again, that’s not to say having a physical presence isn’t important. It is.
But it is much less relevant than even 10 years ago. I believe it is no longer a question of “make or break” for a manufacturer.
Even more so given how many electronics/camera shops have closed in the meantime…
On a side note, I’ve always found that Fuji menus looked awful.
If I were a beginner, I’d definitely prefer to roam through Canikon camera menus.
I’d tend to agree, coming from a Nikon background; but they have the Q menu which is a really good idea, well implemented especially that they now allow you to customise it.
Doesn’t make much sense, they gonna miss the entire holiday season. And for a vacation season they will need to release weather sealed (better yet, totally waterproof) line of just about everything,,, which is clearly not going to happen.
Most likely they are just merging X-M and X-A lines with an evolutionary upgrade (like faster everything, Chrome, enhanced wifi functionality etc). And if they manage to bring a GPS chip on board without any significant price increase (and with no substantial battery life loss!), they gonna win quite a chunk of vacationing crowd next summer.
people already use their iPhones for vacations, and most vacations are not to places requiring weather sealing (even handling the beach isn’t a big deal), think summer, think sunshine!
Seriously, adding a GPS chip is going to make a flagging line of cameras suddenly desirable! The entry level crowd are going from iphones to canon entry level DSLRs because the people that are entry level are going to go with brand recognition. It’s enthusiasts that go with Fuji who don’t want entry level anything, this is why Fuji didn’t sell many of the Ms and As in the first place, and simply adding a GPS chip is going to change that not one bit.
Give me a proper gps solution. Like pan lumix tz 40 or what its called.
Totally agree with that!
I think most are missing what this means. Say goodbye to the rangefinder style entry level camera and possibly even the X-E_ level and hello to something more X-T1 style.
hard sell when you can get an Olympus E-M5 and 50mm f/1.8 for $900, this would give you much faster AF, interchangeable lenses, IBIS etc etc. For $400 less than the x100t. This market doesn’t exist for M and A cameras, the iPhone has that sewn up. And Fuji doesn’t offer anything competitive in the sub-thousand dollar price point. The x100t is small, but no smaller than the E-M5, the sensor is a little bigger, but both are small so if you cared about sensor size you wouldn’t be buying either. Fuji need to forget about this price point, it’s not one they are going to win. They don’t have the brand name for it, nor the technology, their 16mp is not competitive, their AF is not competitive and their prices are too high for what you get, Maybe sell the x100t for $699 and offer it with two lens choices (45/50mm) or just forget that price point altogether and focus on cameras their brand appeals to. The enthusiast who values retro knobs. For the enthusiast that just wants hard core electronics and the best signal from their sensor they’ll buy Sony because their sensors are bigger, much higher resolution and better dynamic range, but their cameras are consumer electronics styled and not retro rangefinder styled. Focus where their market is, just make an x-pro 2 with Canon 6D speed AF and a 24mp sensor (people will still buy it even though it’s aps-c if you put it in a sexy black body with lots of knurled knobs)
Fuji lost its way after the f30, which was a stunning digital cameras, a long shot from the GSW690 I still use, but superb engineering for the time.
Fuji’s decisions ae indeed strange and they are going on other path that its users want, they expected X30 with 1″ sensor but were given huge bulky camera with old tiny sensor, they expected X100T with 24MP, they were given same 4-years old 16MP sensor, they wait for X-Pro2 for so long that many now go to Sony FF, they expected X-E2 will receive many of X-T1 upgrades, but Fuji adore only X-T1 buyers. And now this “wow news” about entry level new camera. Who does want it and wait for it? Fujifil seems really deaf on what users want.
“they expected X30 with 1″ sensor but were given huge bulky camera with old tiny sensor”
have you actually tried it ? (and I am not talking about a couple of shots,) mine is less than two weeks old and has clocked over 600 shots and I am very very surprised by the overal quality I get and oh it fits in my jean’s pocket; so no so bulky
Ha! This is a good joke. 16mp uncompetitive? AF uncompetitive? Could have fooled me. I’ve used the e-m5 with its cramped, mushy buttons. Not anywhere near as enjoyable to use as the x100s.
enjoyable is for geeks and amateurs. it’s not about how enjoyable the camera is to use, it’s about results, and 16mp is ok, no big deal there, but af speed on the x100s is not even close to the olympus. Real photographers care about the results and getting shots, not about how cute the dials.
“enjoyable is for geeks and amateurs” so how come many reputable photographers talk about the sheer pleasure they’ve got back using the on of the X series bodys ? (X100xx included)
“Real photographers care about the results and getting shots, not about how cute the dials.” as accurate as ” real men don’t … (pick you sentence end) “
it’s a pleasure using an iPhone, it’s a pleasure driving a honda accord etc etc.
if you enjoy using it then that’s just peachy, when you care about getting great photo results think about an upgrade..
How about showing us some of your pix so that we may be enlightened. You have been pontificating about full frame, right? So why not post your best FF pix and let’s see how it holds up to the best fuji pix in the forum.
I think you scared him off. He is hiding under the bed now.
I should have written :
“so how come many reputable /professionnal/ photographers /besides the great results they get/ talk /also/ about the sheer pleasure they’ve got back using the on of the X series bodys”
I have put the key words between slanted lines to assist your understanding
in “real” life…there is no difference between a 16mp and a 24mp..Have you shot with a X-T1..I traded all my Canon ( especially my 1D mark III and 5 D as the X-T1 can produce the same results and my back feels better), and Yes, I use Fuji for weddings…AF is not as slow as people think it is.
for weddings of course it doesn’t matter. the photos end up on facebook or maybe get printed 8×6.
AF isn’t slow, it’s just not in the same league as your 5D (yes, even the 2005 original 5d will kick the focus pants of the 2014 fujis)
you could have your full frame and light weight if you bought a sony a7…
I have not had a problem getting results. Enjoyable to use means it makes sense ergonomically, and guess what, that leads to better results. By your logic we should all be using full frame SLRs.
yes, everyone should be using full frame. finally you get it. They are as inexpensive as the fuji’s but the results are just better. Much better.
And enjoyable to use doesn’t mean makes sense ergonomically at all, it just means you enjoy using it. I enjoy using an iPhone, but that doesn’t make it a great camera.
yes yes yes, use a full frame camera if you care about image quality and being able to focus anything other than stationary objects. that’s a little unfair, the fuji’s not that bad at autofocus, but if you’ve used anything like a D4 or a 6D you’ll understand it’s two different worlds in speed.
Use Sony A7/r for legacy manual focus lenses, if you want fantastic image quality and the ability to use leica lenses. You just can’t use these lenses on a ff dslr.
Use FF DSLRs if you want image quality and AutoFocus and infinite number of fantastic lenses.
Use Fuji if you just want sexy knobs, plastic skin and freaky foliage and enjoyable to use.
You mistook me. For me, a camera that is not ergonomic is not enjoyable to use. I do not enjoy using my iPhone for photography. I do not want to use legacy lenses. I don’t want or need to use Leica lenses. I want fast prime lenses, of very high optical quality, with autofocus, with good build quality, in sizes and at prices that are not exorbitant. Sony A7…they have a nice 55mm that fits that category. That’s it.
But I’m curious, if you are so in love with image quality why don’t you shoot medium format, or large format? I’d also say that if you can’t make an enjoyable and salable images with any of the current APS-C or m4/3 cameras then the problem is you, not the camera.
Finally, why do you feel the need to justify your opinions but putting down others’ opinions? It’s sad, an shows a real lack of confidence.
Don’t waste your time with him.
If he’s not a troll, he’s just a kid who hopefully will mature as he browses photogalleries full of beautiful shots made by non-FF cameras.
This is because they are going for a different niche than Olympus, Canon and Nikon, they are going for the more affluent hobbyst and the snapshooter pro that lust for the camera use experience and simplicity over the relative technical advantages of other systems.
Unless you shoot action, products or fashion the system is good enough.
Insecure 4/3 troll, please.
I wouldn’t be caught dead with m43 for anything more than a walk-about for pool parties!
Sony A7, Canon FF, Medium Format film for anything that actually requires more than two nanoseconds of thought.
I was trying, to get through to people here that the very last thing Fuji will sell is an entry level camera. They are for older gear heads that like retro styled cameras and don’t care too much about image quality. Fuji is as bad as m43 for image quality, possibly worse with skin and foliage. They look great! I’ll give you that, but 16mp is lame in 2014 and the AF is slow as a dog and the sensor is just too damn small – they are the cameras serious photographers would love to love, but when it comes down to it, it’s too early in the product cycle, they just don’t compete with entry dslr’s half the price.
maybe call me a ff snob, that would be true.
I’m sorry to break it to you but those “older gear heads” know probably much more about photography than you do. Hence their happy choice of Fuji.
You’re only making a fool of yourself here.
By this reasoning, the GM5 and PEN series should never of been released.
X-T1 is the hottest product and Fuji might have a “cheap” X-T1 type cam coming out…
it’s only hot among enthusiasts happy with aps-c sensors, outside of this narrow niche it’s practically unheard of. Walk around a tourist city and you’ll see 100 canon DSLRs for every Fuji. That said, the enthusiasts don’t want entry level anything, if they did they wouldn’t be enthusiasts. If you want a cheap X-T1 get the Olympus E-M5, it’s also a better camera, better sensor and faster focusing. If you want better image quality get a full frame, like the Sony A7.
I hear you on the full frame, but how is the E-M5 a better sensor than the X-T1?
and “better camera” seems a little bit subjective…
X-T1 is in fact a good compromise between OMD and A7.
(sorry, I wanted to reply to hnriot)
I meant hottest selling Fuji X camera. On Amazon it’s currently on spot #10 of Best Selling Compact System Cameras:
http://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Electronics-Compact-System-Cameras/zgbs/electronics/3109924011/ref=zg_bs_nav_e_3_281052
Next Fuji is — again X-T1 — #16! X-E2 is #28 and X-M1 #31.
and “better camera” seems a little bit subjective…
X-T1 is in fact a good compromise between OMD and A7.
Uhmmm… no, most of those tourists *are* sporting APS-C cameras. For instance,
http://www.dpreview.com/products/canon/slrs/canon_eos70d/specifications
http://www.dpreview.com/products/canon/slrs/canon_eos7dii/specifications
http://www.dpreview.com/products/canon/slrs/canon_eos1200d/specifications
http://www.dpreview.com/products/canon/slrs/canon_eos700d/specifications
http://www.dpreview.com/products/canon/slrs/canon_eos100d/specifications
Tourists buy Canon because Canon blows gobs of money on quality advertising, helping to build a trusted brand name. Fuji doesn’t (far as I can tell — I’ve seen photography magazines with pages and pages of Canon & Nikon ads, but nary a Fuji in sight, except in some articles, usually positive).
Maybe this was your point: since Canon has the APS-C market covered, Fuji should be working a different one, but that’s not clear from what you wrote.
I’d be down for an xt1 style entry model with a Bayer sensor
If I’d want interchangeable lenses, I wouldn’t give a second thought and get the X-T1. I would never get something smaller to use it with cheaper or other label lenses.
Instead, my first thought (and wish), is the X 40 I’ve been waiting. The smaller version of the best X 100 T, BUT with a 24-120 fixed zoom lens to get the throne back from the PanaLumix LX100, Sony RX 100 III, …
The A1 is aimed at a different type of person than the T1. Maybe not the people on this forum.
This morning I ordered a X-T1 (Graphite Silver Edition). 🙂
Nice!
envious…
Great, just what we need, another entry level camera.
I thought the entry level X was the X30.
Strike that. The XQ1.
According to Fuji, these are indeed X series cameras.
I would totally love a cheaper version of the X100t that basically has no EVF but a very nice articulated LCD- *and* smaller. Make that a 50mm native lens and I am in.
If I were Fuji I would make this entry level camera an upgrade to the x-a1 with a bigger bayer sensor 24mp perhaps. I would leverage it as a way of testing / debuting next gen camera tech that was not tied to the fuji xtrans sensor pattern or any organic sensor r&d. It would be a way of grabbing some of the market that cares more about megapixels and adobe support while allowing them to sell more quality fuji lenses and prove out that quality in the marketplace. Think of getting dxo to actually test some fuji lenses. They could in turn work in parallel on improving the xtrans sensor next gen sensor tech for the xpro2 and xe3. If I were fuji, I would have two lines the xtrans line and the bayer line and perhaps I would not market that bayer line as X but as Y. I think its very difficult for the average / entry level consumer to understand the difference in sensor tech and its impacts.
tech trickles down from higher end models not back up.
Not so. Look at the history.
Xm1 – first tilting rear screen on a fuji x.
X30 – viewfinder advances, classic chrome film simulation, etc first.
There are other examples. Read what I wrote again about non-sensor tech.
Wifi also on the Xa/m line. I also think testing the market with entry level camera can be good. Heck even Nikon does it releasing their expeed 4 sensor on the d5000series before the higher cameras got it
Yeah… “look at history”. Every car tech ever made. Every software, hardware, industrial equipment, cameras, Walkman, channel bags, all fashion…etc the tech trickles down. Why? Econ 101.
“X30 – viewfinder advances, classic chrome film simulation, etc first.” It is called an update. What your describing is product differentiation, has nothing to do with tech trickling down. Entry level models will always have something different…such as wifi gimmicks. Now if it had the better viewfinder found in the XT1 or new 24mp apsc sensor, then you might have found a something support your ridiculous claim. The best and newest will always be in the flagship models and cost more, just like the rest of life. Btw the fuji EVF are bought from sony so tech trickled down from sony lol.
Maybe not calling someone stupid for his points would help you look at yourself with more kindness?
Fuji X-S2 ???
Would not be a smart move IMO. Entry level cameras have been unsuccessful and unprofitable up till now for Fuji. The competition is Sony, Olympus, Panasonic and Samsung. You are not going to convince anybody with another entry level camera.
Fuji you need to stop this crap and introduce a camera that keeps up with the developing Sony is putting on the table. I’m a Fuji shooter but you need to continue to WOW us. By the time you push the X-Pro 2 out the technology will be on all the other ones out there. Come on Fuji.
One year ago, there were rumors about Fuji introducing a full frame X-Pro and X100 successor without an X-Trans sensor, which was exciting. One year later, and there is still no rumors about an X-Pro 2, just another entry-level camera.
I think Fuji should have went with the full frame X-Pro 2, and kept everything else APS-C ~ that would be exciting. Even with just 3 fast, high-quality primes at release.
Sadly, the only option is Sony, and I have never liked the feel or design of a Sony camera – unbalanced and poorly designed.
I totally agree. The sad part is that I moved from Sony to Fuji almost 2 years a go and I am honestly thinking moving back. An expensive round trip for sure!
Don’t move back. Give it a little more time. And hope.
But if Fuji released a FF camera, you would have to buy everything new anyway. The current lenses won’t work on FF. You comment makes no sense.
I used to be so against fuji going ff. But now a believe once fuji has completed the apsc lens line they will go FF. I believe ff mirror less (maybe with a combined mount with Panasonic or someone) and lenses that don’t require firmware to run would be best (ie actual mechanical manual focus instead of electronic – and fujis lenses would be instant legends like leicas)
– Going FF would require a complete new line of lenses; that’s an expensive proposition to develop and then to acquire
– Firmware in lenses allows regular improvements (think lens modulation data the lens can send now that the bodies are powerful enough to interpret them, or new OIS algorithms, or new or more precise aperture & distance data …. ) Firmware is a garantee of potential and possible evolution;
Most people seem to forget that Engineers learn new tricks everyday and that the way many things were designed 10 years ago has now been superceeded, mainly by the use of software
Absolutely right!
There are entry-level cameras making good sales and it would be smart to go after them, not just leave that market to others.
An X40 with a new 1″ X-Trans sensor, to take on the Pana LX100? Or a beefed up XQ2, to go for those not buying the Sony RX100III? Even a merged, better made XA1-M1 does make sense seeing the success Panasonic had with their minuscule GM1.
Wild prediction: seeing how smartphones evolve in terms of photo-capabilities, nothing smaller than aps will make sense in 2-3 years for a device that is “only” a camera. The entry level compact has no future. The compact big sensored camera with high quality optics does. But a “pure” camera will have to make a difference to a smartphone if you want to sell it. And the only way to achieve this is through control (aperture/iso stuff and focus), good pixels on good sensors and nice lenses. A LX100 is more than a XPeria Z3. Not sure I’d say that about a XQ1 (I’m a bad boy, I know…).
I agree, but I would not call it a prediction. It is already happening at this very moment. DxO Mark Mobile is a dedicated mobile phone section, same goes with Connect at DPReview, Photography Blog is now testing mobile phones and so on. It is here, and your logic is quite right.
So please Fuji, FOCUS ON TWO things: (1) Large APS-C sensors that will never fit into any cellphone, with innovative filter arrays or multilayer sensors; (2) bodies and lenses with full manual controls and proven ergonomics.
In other words, Keep X-T as a top of the line body (T = top), keep X-Pro as an advanced rangefinder (perhaps rename it to X-P, where P = Pro), merge X-M and X-E series into one rangefinder-styled more affordable body and keep X-E name (E = entry), keep X100 series with fast(er) primes (23mm f/1.4 anyone?), but add X200 (or X100Z) with a fixed 2x to 3x zoom – I wish for a 20-40mm (30-60mm eq) or 20-60mm (30-90mm eq) with constant f/2.8. All in all: 5 lines of cameras. That’s all.
I think you’re right. The XT and X100 lines should be the main focus for Fuji, but no harm in having an entry level X mount camera. It will share a lot of the guts of the higher end cameras, so development costs should be low.
Fuji has failed miserably in trying to capitalize in this market. Stick with the cameras that have had measurable success – X20/X30 line…X100/X100S/X100T line…XPRO1 line…XT1 line. All the other models in one way or another have been a fail or have been something like the XE1/XE2, which was too much of other cameras and not enough of its own camera.
Fuji has limited resources when compared to the likes of Canon and Nikon, who can afford to flood a market with models from A-Z. So please, there’s no need to have camera models in every demographic. Hold on to the high quality models you have, get to work on an XPRO1 upGRADE (not update) and stop fucking around with the low end crap which only helped to sink your ship in the last handful of quarters.
On the other hand, with their limited ressources they’ve managed to build a nearly complete lens lineup and release between 1 and 3 generations of products in the span of less than 4 years; Not a small job; The OlKaSonicons can’t say the same by a long stretch; The may have some (future) better products but none (that I am aware of) has a comprehensive system
Your point is included in my statement, as I mentioned interchangeable bodies which need lenses, obviously (XPRO1 / XT1). I have no qualms with Fuji’s time/money investment in creating new lenses (and camera firmware).
But Fuji already tried releasing a slew of entry level cameras in the last few years, and not counting the dozen people here who will say they bought it, in the grand scheme of things, those models were not money makers and did not bring buyers into bigger, better models. The person who has $400 to spend on a camera is not going to be the type of buyer who is going to next jump into a $1500-body model.
So I don’t understand why Fuji doesn’t stick to what they know they do well. The models I’ve mentioned in my original post are the bread and butter, money makers and quality builds by Fuji. Stick to those. Upgrade the old XPRO1. Work on the future past those models. Leave the flooded entry level market to the dogs fighting over the same bone.
I hear what you say and by and large agree; I am not sure that this is a decision : they said in the past is that they won’t be release a new Xpro until there is a significant technological advance; And may be that step is a tad more difficult to get to than you and I imagine.
In the meantime they also need to have their name in the news hence the “easy to make” entry level systems and significant upgrades on existing bodies X100S&T, X-E2, Updates on XT1
Fuji has limited ressources compared to Nikon? Have a look at both company’s financial statements and you will change your mind.
Their entry level models serve a purpose that you don’t see. They make entry into the system possible for a larger number of people who then want the lenses and save up for them in a way they never would if they had not tasted the delicious Fuji jpegs.
What for? Why is Fuji constantly releasing only entry level cameras. I’m not sure who on this world would be interested in this when you have powerful mobile phones that satisfies most of the needs.
I think you’re absolutely right.
And from my point of view, Fuji has created it’s niche in today’s world of photography-gear providers as brand that makes high quality aps mirrorless cameras for passionate amateurs and some pros with need for compact tools. They should really be busy stabilizing that situation, more than anything else. Because if Nikon (as an example) releases an aps or FF mirrorless (which they easily could,imagine a coolpix A with an F-mount…), Fuji’s gonna need more than a X-tx with a new fancy colour or button and film simulation and the third version of a recycled sensor to keep it’s place. Focus on guys like me who are ready to spend money for a compact and high quality system as an alternative for a good DSLR. Entry level is covered by many others. As is “full frame” – no chance to compete with the lens line-up of other manufacturers in even middle term. When I actualise my system in 2 years, based on my x100s experience, I’m ready to consider Fuji. But they rather bring something very interesting with the x-Pro2, and if possible cheaper than a D750 or Df with a set of Sigma Art lenses.
These are APS sensor cameras with interchangeable lenses. Nothing like a mobile phone.
I guess Fujifilm should stop producing cameras without viewfinder (electronic / optical or hybrid). The X-M1 / X-A1 is, as many of you have noticed, a waste of resources (time, money, personnel) and Fuji should focus all their efforts on high-end products. I don’t want to hurt any user of X-A1 / X-M1 – they are good products, but we’re talking about maximizing efficiency, in a world where competition is tough. Especially now, when Olympus is preparing something new, Samsung want to overcome themselves, Sony keeps raising the bar and we’ve heard Canon and Nikon will do something serious in the Mirrorless area. It will be even tougher than today. I still love Fuji for a list of good reasons (high quality products, great elegant retro design and ergonomics, fantastic lens, impressive EVF/OVF/hybrid VF, unique colors from a revolutionary sensor), but there are some elements that need their attention in the most serious way (like battery performance and battery real charging value indicator, AF performance – see Olympus and Sony for that) and some other features I’ll let you all name them.
I would think something with the X-T1 tilt screen and no viewfinder, with wither X-E2 or X-M1 style control dials, could do quite well. Hopefully with X-T1 AF or maybe even the 24MP sensor.
That would be called the X30 with APSC and interchangeable lens, oh wait that’s the X-T1; I am trying to say that I’d find it hard to define what an entry level should be w/o cannibilising the ‘bigger brothers’ sales
Nope, the X-T1 has an EVF, ISO dial and higher fps etc compared to what I’m suggesting.
I can see it if it is a super compact model. Like Panasonic has done with the GM series. Then make some small primes to fit, maybe a super compact (but slow) 20-50 zoom. Many want some smaller primes anyway.
This system needs a “gateway drug” that will pull in new users who will buy lenses and eventually, higher end models. I just hope that it has an EVF
Nobody makes money with entry-level models. Those are to acquire new customers and tie them to the system, maybe buy another lens or two. In case of Canikon, entry-level models are also to make the market very hard for competitors who try to steal some market share.
The money is made in the enthusiast and pro market.
I have an X-A1 and 2000$ worth of Fuji lenses, soon to be more than 3000. Where is the money made again? I would not have bought the expensive camera before having the lenses.
Now, give me an X camera with tilt-screen and the first generation image quality (no High ISO waxy skin) and I may reconsider my choice of camera. Until then the X-A1 is the best camera for me.
The time it took for a single user to object to my statement is proof enough for me. And probably nobody else will ever read it again. 😉
For me I will keep my X-M1. It’s not the camera, it’s the photographer who make the picture.
The photo below was created on X-M1 with XF 60 f/2.4 lens and manually focussed. Won 1st place fashion photohunting competition in Bali.
For some reason I can’t upload a photo here. 🙁
I don’t get all this virulent – and to be honest quite irritating – anti X-M1 and X-A1 sentiment here. I for one am glad that Fuji decided to release an entry level X-Trans ILC with APS-sized sensor (the X-M1) and happily bought it for one simple but important reason: money.
We just can’t all afford an X-T1 or an X-Pro 1 with prohibitively expensive prime lenses, and the (IMHO) overpriced XE-1/X-E2 hybrid just doesn’t cut it for me. For me this is the only way to build a system from the ground, gradually expanding it by saving up slowly for great glass and eventually a better body. Hopefully this rumoured camera is the step up I’m waiting for.
In the meantime I live with the – honestly rather minor – X-M1 limitations and this very affordable camera gives me absolutely stunning results, using the indeed quite big but optically more than adequate XC 16-50 and a bunch of great (and cheap!) old Pentax primes with an adaptor. Please find an example here:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/patjo/15653099252/in/photostream/lightbox/
It bugs me that some people call the XM-1 crap because it has no viewfinder. Reminds me a bit of that elitist attitude most Leica shooters have. And the ludacrous remarks that anyone who buys entry level gear should use their iPhones instead… As if there’s nothing in between! And no, the X-10/20/30 don’t count. Great camera’s – I own the X-10- but fixed lens and small sensor.
Yes, Fuji may have released a few camera’s too many over the last couple of years, but I think there will always be a need for an affordable model to drag people into the system. And that’s just what the X-M1/A1 is: an entry level Fuji, and a good one at that.
Ok, rant over 🙂 Back to enjoying my gear again! Because like Alexander Barus said earlier in this thread: It’s not the camera, it’s the photographer who takes the picture.
No more 4-year old X-Trans with too many issues on JPEGs that Fujifilm was not able to fix though so many users have requested for! Give us new sensor.
The X-M1 takes excellent JPEG’s.
Issues ? Care to enlighten me with examples and link to images with issues ?
Over past year I had the chance to use every single Fuji body for extended period of time, including XM1 and XA1, and I was very very surprised how happy I was with it and 18mm and 35mm primes on them. Being very used to these lenses from my Xpro1 I was just snapping away in aperture mode, rarely even looking at the screen, and it was especially nice on the weekend with my gf, because she always complains about how she only sees me with the camera glued to my face, so with no viewfinder, she got to see me… and actually she loved the camera herself (the silver and brown XM1) and took a few great pics. Soon after my sister bought in to Fuji system, with red XA1 and 3 lenses. I am still thinking of maybe buying one as back up…
Point of the story is that XM1 & XA1 have the right to exist, and great as back up bodies, and what it lacks in features it makes up in size, price and simplicity.
Would love to see an update!!! Ideally with fully customisable buttons, interval shooting mode and remote WiFi app. Because it would fit right in, my travel backpack as back up or time laps camera.
X-M1 and X-A1 are the smallest (and lightest?) X bodies around. People want to carry them around with a pancake and use some bigger lens from time to time. They specifically do not want bulkier body but they really do need interchangeable lens camera. I think a lot of people miss that.
X-Pro 2 please!!! I am starting to think that Fuji does not have enough sensor technology in order to release the promised pro camera…
I think they are just putting it off to let all the other camera bodies sell before releasing something as revolutionary as Xpro1 was 3 years ago… but then again, now much better can it be, all I really want is Xt1 features in rangefinder body with hybrid viewfinder…
What I really want is X100 type body with medium format sensor!!!!
I bought an XM-1and spent the money I saved on a nice fuji lens that I could not have otherwise afforded. I got the same sensor as the more expensive models but at a fraction of the price. And Fuji made money out of me because, having bought into their system, I then began to buy more expensive X lenses. I don’t even have a problem using the relatively large and heavy 10-14 zoom on my XM1.By the time Fuji get arround to bringing out an X Camera with an updated sensor I will have saved up enough cash to buy it. And for me, I don’t need an eyepiece – the flip out screen is just fine and the small form factor suits me nicely. I do street and the XM1 is good for me.
Sorry. Not interested. Don’t need more entry level x cameras. Finish that flagship model x-pro2 we’ve all been waiting forever for… Keeps getting pushed back again and again. No need for entry level x. If you want the caliber of oerformaufrom an x camera, then I think one should be expect to buy into a certain level of high performance and the cost that goes into it. X-Pro2 please… And hopefully it won’t be set for release next Christmas 2015?!