A French FR-reader spotted this comment made by Guillaume d’Ambre-City (who claims to work for Fuji and to be under NDA) at the Fuji France facebook page. He says (translated by the French FR-reader):
“Don’t worry they’ll do it [admin: introduce the 32,000 shutter speed to the black X-T1 via firmware]. The shutter is new on the Graphite but on the Blacks the update will work its trick. The EVF shuts down whilst taking the picture, the shutter opens and the sensor sends what it sees to the SD card instead of the EVF. I cannot go into more details (I work for Fuji and I am under NDA) but again the update will allows us to shoot at those crazy speed, it’s coming !!!!”
Also the Fuji Guys, Fuji’s official X-T1 graphite press release, and previously some of my sources, confirmed that the electronic shutter will come via firmware update. I hope this post has dissipated also the last doubts I could still read in the comments. So both, the silver and the black X-T1 will feature an electronic shutter in future. Just keep a formatted SD-card ready for December, when the new firmware will be released.
Keep up following Fujirumors also via facebook, google+, RSS-feed and twitter… Photokina has yet to come!
cheers,
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45 Responses
Patrick,
Do you know if going to an electronic shutter will impact flash sync speeds?
Flash will not work on electronic shutter mode.
Zack Arias wrote it for the X100T, I suppoe that’s this is the same for the X-T1.
It will not impact on flash speed, because an electronic shutter cannot be used with flash. An electronic shutter works by triggering rows of pixels along the sensor, one row at a time, at great speed. It’s like the way a scanner works, or the way a cathode-ray tube TV built up an image. It can make for a shutter speed far faster than any production shutter could produce, but a flash triggers for an even shorter duration, so you would get one portion of the image correctly exposed for flash, and the rest receive no flash at all.
So which one will or would be better then …a true mechanical shutter with 1/8000 or an electronical with 1/32000….??? Still didnt get….not impacting the flash sync is obvious….so it seems the mechanical shutter would still be better due to its impact on (higher) flash sync…..
It depends. 1/8000th of a second is unlikely to be compatible with a flash in most cases, regardless of shutter design. The flash duration is extremely fast (tens or even hundreds of thousandths of a second), and the discharge time of the capacitors that cause that flash is near-enough instantaneous, but you are dealing with a lot of triggering sub-systems that slow the whole process down. This means instead of the ideal ‘shutter opens-flash fires-shutter closes’ action, the flash fires at some point during the opening or closing steps. In a mechanical focal plane shutter, that usually means the blades or the curtains of the shutter in transit somewhere across the sensor, leaving a slot or slots of correct exposure, on an otherwise dark image. This is why many DSLRs have a minimum flash sync speed of 1/180th or 1/250th second. A leaf shutter is less prone to such problems and frequently allows synchronisation right up to its fastest shutter speed.
Electronic shutters act by turning rows of pixels on and off in quick succession across the sensor. In some systems, this happens fast enough that it allows high-speed flash synchronisation (as in the old Nikon D70), but in most systems, the flash will fire while some, but not all, the rows of pixels are ‘active’. Which means a band (or bands) of correct exposure, and massive underexposure on other parts of the frame.
There is no ‘better’ here. If you need a fast shutter speed to cope with high intensity continuous lighting, then go for an electronic shutter. If you need a fast shutter to freeze motion, a mechanical shutter is usually better, because the sequential firing of pixels will distort the subject in motion.
A mechanical shutter with 1/8000.
However this electronic shutter can come in handy in bright light situations and objects that don’t move or don’t move really fast.
An electronic shutter reads each line out in 1/32000.
That means for the x-t1 it will need to read out 3264 lines.
Each line will take 1/32000.
1/32000 = 0.00003125 sec.
0.00003125 x 3264 = 0,102 seconds to read out the whole sensor.
This is why it can’t be used for fast moving objects.
Does that mean the actual shutter speed (time to take the whole picture) at 1/32000 is about 1/10 (and 1/16000 would be 1/5)?
If yes, I imagine using this feature handhold with the 56mm/1.2 (w/o OIS) will cause distorted images because of camera shake.
do you share my concern?
That’s the big problem, although I’m not completely convinced it will be THAT big a problem. TW’s calculations assume the e-shutter works one line at a time. I’d assume there is some kind of interlacing or chunking going on, allowing for multiple lines of pixels to be worked on simultaneously.
It’s more likely that the e-shutter works at 1/32000th of a second, but takes closer 1/60th of a second to complete the sensor coverage (which is how Olympus does it, IIRC).
That still means fast moving subjects get distorted, but fast as in ‘things in rapid motion’, rather than camera shake or blurred portrait subjects.
I think you have misunderstood how this works. The total time to read the entire sensor must not be calculated that way. In fact, the total time must be less than 1/60 or the camera would not be able to record 60p video.
The important number for flash is the maximum sync speed, not the max shutter speed (either mechanical or electronic). The sync speed will be unchanged, so there is no advantage here from electronic shutter. The advantage comes when using a f/1.2 lens on a sunny day.
The fuiju guys mentioned exactly this in their video a while ago http://youtu.be/3-OKr4ULTGc?list=UU9CifUFEqSpuF9tTGpKxC4g
Repetita Juvant
This is all covered in the actual announcement from Fuji. Read the astricks down at the bottom: http://www.fujifilm.com/news/n140910_02.html
**The Electronic Shutter may not be suitable for fast-moving objects. Flash can not be used.
***This functionality [1/32000s]will be installed via a firmware update planned for December, 2014, for both the X-T1 Black and the X-T1 Graphite Silver Edition.
Also, if it can’t be used for action, and it can’t be used with flash, calling it a 1/32000 second shutter speed seems disingenuous. It’s really a digital ND filter. As I understand it, they can read out each row of pixels after 1/32000, and then move on to the next row. The total time to read the whole sensor out is not nearly as fast. The Olympus Electronic Shutter does it 1/60s. So, while the exposure will reflect light being captured for 1/32000s, motion in the image will reflect a much slower shutter speed…ie it’s a digital ND filter and should have been called that.
But with mechanical shutter you get a similar issue. The total exposure time is around the flash sync speed ~1/200, even when the shutter speed is set to 1/4000. It is correctly named as an electronic shutter (rolling curtain to be more precise), an ND filter is a totally different thing.
The electronic shutter will cause rolling shutter effects for subjects moving quickly across the frame … and banding issues when used above certain speeds under fluorescent lights.
There will probably also be a maximum ISO limitation when using the electronic shutter.
does this trick reduce the lifetime of our mirrorless?
I don’t think it would since from what is said, the feed from the sensor is simply routed to the sdcard instead of the EVF, so it does not place a heavier burden on the shitter or the driving electronics
Freudian slip? Either way, I laughed.
Nice one, I guess simply too many thumbs. I quickly rectified !
Do you think XE-2 will also get electronic shutter?
why not…for “old” x-t1 will be a trick software (hardware for new x-t1?)… I
Hardware is identical in the silver X-T1.
we have to wait December for these features in the “old” x-t1..imho the reason is that in the new model is already implemented by hardware. Happy to be wrong 🙂
The way i understand it, from the original press release and the FujiGuys. The silver version comes with Classic Chrome and Electronic shutter out of the box, but the other 10 new features will have to wait for the firmware update just like the black X-T1, which will then get 12 new features total as it would include Classic Chrome and Electronic shutter as well.
This is why there is conflicting info on the firmware update, because the info we have about it comes from the silver x-t1 press release with these 2 features already implemented. Maybe we’ll see a press release specifically for the firmware update(s) soon, and then possibly they would let us know if it includes the X-E2 or not.
Rico announced a wee while back an firmware upgrade for the xe-2 due, if memory serves mid to late autumn.
Wasn’t worried .. i trust the FujiGuys. 😉
Would using the electronic shutter for timelapse photos prevent excessive wear on the manual shutter? A timelapse photo taken every 3 seconds for 24 hours would result in 28,800 photos! Manual shutters are usually only rated for something like 20,000-50,000 actuations!
It depends on Nikon they are rated between 150k to 300k. 20k sounds pretty pretty low.
I didn’t remember the exact number. It varies of course depending on the camera. Either way, if someone wants to take timelapse photos more than a few times, they could very quickly drive the shutter count way way up.
To answer the 1st question, surely yes. As for the shutter count issue, I would be very surprised f the XT1 is rated for less than 150000.
Yes it would.
And what about X-E2 firmware upgrade ? Any rumors ? I eared from a Fuji commercial, during a Fuji event in France in june, a firmware update for X-E2 which bring Wifi remote control should come soon (he spokes about summer, but now it seems difficult to believe).
+1 on that question. From the description it sounds like essentially any X camera could get this with a firmware upgrade, definitely the X-E2 which shares a lot of electronics with the X-T1 (same sensor, same processor, etc.).
Here’s hoping that Fuji will continue to exhibit the same progressive thinking that their existing models get upgrades and gain customers who know that buying a Fuji X camera is a relationship rather than a one night stand :-).
Fuji Guys
1 day ago
We are currently working on firmware updates for the X-E2. Stay tuned.
Thanks ! 😀
What about the x100s?? Will there also be a firmware update for the electronic shutter?
“Do not worry you all X-T1 top Fujifilm camera users, you will get electronic shutter! And you the rest poor X-E2/X-100s suckers, drool for months!” – Fujifilm
And as soon as the xpro 2 comes out the x-t1 will be ignored by Fuji (and this website). Fuji are undoing a lot of good work and turning into canikon
there will be an update for the X-E2 as well 😉
“The shutter is new on the Graphite but on the Blacks the update will work its trick.”
This makes it sound like there is new hardware on the Graphite version.
SHUT ter up ! Enough of this light blocker subject !
yeah, not sure how this will work.. is it actually a mechanically new shutter in the graphite silver version only (and possibly sub sequential black models that will be released at the same time and after the graphite silver version)?.. if so, I don’t see how previous black x-t1 will be able to take full advantage of this new shutter system… why put a new mechanical shutter system in if it aint’ going to doing any more or better than what a firmware can provided for with the “older” x-t1 models?..
Makes more sense to say the shutter system that will be in the graphite version is the same as in the black x-t1, both will have exact same performance via new firmware upgrade and that will be the new shutter for both of them.. not an actual new shutter (speaking physical or mechanical upgrade that isn’t a firmware upgrade)
To everybody who are unsure about whether the “new” shutter contains a hardware component or not. I am sure all of this uncertainty is based on something getting lost in translation. Now, drawing conclusions from the most hilarious translation I have seen from French is one thing (I don’t know French, but Bing doesn’t either :), but when Fuji in addition gets confused with the translation and drops the word “full frame” in their promotional material, they definitely could do better. I know Japanese is hard to translate to correct English (just look at some of Fuji’s other promotional material (or web site!) for a chuckle or two).
I believe the “shutter” that is mentioned is definitely the electronic one, totally unrelated to the mechanical one. So new X-T1 = old X-T1 + bling.
I base this assumption on how Fuji has handled previous “updates” (Black X100 etc) in the past. The one thing they *might* change, are the buttons on the 4-way controller. Apparently, the X100T ones look similar to the ones on the X-T1, but have a better “feel” to them according to the dedpxl.com review. If that’s the case, I assume this change of parts will trickle down to the black version as well.
Perhaps Fuji’s camera division by now should be big enough to hire a press contact that is fluent in English?
Fuji is not better than the others. The release of both X100 & X-Pro1 were a complete disaster, one of the worst firmware stories in the history of digital camera design and nobody out there to help you. Yes, in the wave of popularizing their response to the market a bit as ‘kaizen’ – in fact pure damage control – they made more or less working cameras of it. But in the mean time they have collected quite a few hardware issues too in their new releases, more difficult to rectify, nearly every model has had a misser. I’ve been in some of these issues too and could only experience an extremely weak after sales/service org. I don’t want to sound too negative, but for those dreaming that Fujifilm is having a different approach than competition, be prepared to be very deceived when you run into serious warranty issues with your X-series. As would be with any other manufacturer nowadays doesn’t matter whether it’s a GPS system or TV-set,…