THE RUMOR (new source)
The Kaizen philosophy is something that distinguishes Fujifilm from other companies. And I feel pretty save to say, that it will remain so in future. In fact, the next big FW-updates for the X-E2 and especially the X-T1 are just around the corner.
However, a new source just told me that, since there are now many more X-series cameras on the market than in the past, Fuji can’t afford the growing costs of firmware updates (that will bring new functions) for all these X-cameras anymore.
The costs to continuously implement new features to all X-series cameras would be simply exorbitant.
The source also told us that, according to the latest plans, the Fujifilm X-E2 won’t get the electronic shutter. But it confirms that it will get the remote control & a few minor things. Fuji is also aware of the complaints about too aggressive NR at high ISO in JPEG’s for the X-T1 and X-E2 (NOTE: the fact that they are aware of it, doesn’t necessarily mean that they will improve that via firmware).
THE POLL
With the X100T/X30, Fuji introduced so many firmware based improvements, that I’d really like to have them also on my X-E2. I’m sure many of you would like some of those features too: Electronic Shutter, Full Manual Video Control, spot metering frame coupling, Classic Chrome film simulation, fully configurable Quick menu, improved JPEG engine, wireless remote control (that should come for the X-E2) and Instax printing, interval shooting for time-lapse photography and more…
Sure, we can’t pretend Fujifilm to update all their X-cameras with these (and more) features. But what if we’d pay for them? So here is today’s poll: would you pay for a firmware update that gives you new, long-awaited features on your “older” X-series camera?
Feel free to tell us your most desired firmware features for you X-series camera in the comments and vote if/how much you’d be ready to pay for it.
[poll id=”66″]
have a great start in this new week,
Patrick facebook, google+, RSS-feed and twitter
201 Responses
Well that’s pretty terrible. It seems Fuji is saying buy the most expensive camera or you won’t get the updates. Surely the company would realise this is going to make the X-E3 a very uninviting prospect compared to X-T2.
frankly, there are, I think, 16 X-series camera right now available on the market. The costs to updated them all and bring them to the “state of art firmware” would be too high
I find it hard to believe the way the firmware is written isn’t modular in some way – allowing features to be moved in relatively simply. Certainly the similarity in XT-1 and X-E2 hardware shouldn’t make porting the firmware over too difficult. I just don’t buy the cost excuse on this.
apparently it is really expensive to develop new firmware and you can’t simply copy&paste the X-T1 firmware codec to the X-E2, X-E1, X100S, X100, X-PRO1, X-M1, X-A1, X20 and so on.
Copy & paste is pretty much exaggerating the point made by Grumpyrocker. It is only following common logic to assume that there is a generic platform on which the functions of many of the recent (if not all) fuji x cameras are built. If so, Grumpyrocker has a point to a certain extent.
I suppose it depends on the architecture of the EXR processor.
I think it depends on how much Fuji wants to protect sales of X-T1, let’s face it it makes no sense for them to bring the X-E2 up to speed with X-T1… sad but true. FUJI really screwed up with early X-E2 owners here.
Yes I didn’t mean copy & paste at all. But one would assume there’s a commonality of platform and software across the devices. And it would make sense to have modular functions – so elements could be moved in and out. Anyone who has bought a Canon DSLR in recent years might have the suspicion the differences between some of them are merely tick boxes in firmware builds that the marketing department decides on.
okay, but you are forgeting that xe2 is latest generation of XE camera, its not XE1 … so it should realy be updated with as many features as posible …. (unless they soon anounce an XE3) i wouldnt buy XE3 if it still has the same 16mp sensor unless the AF is drastically improved (ala NX1 and a6000).
If you ever spend some time working with firmware software developers (I have) you’d know it’s never that simple. There are common approaches but typically the mix of hardware prevents modularity in many cases. Just depends on the batches of parts purchased. We all thought the T1 and E2 were identical in hardware but have since learned there are differences in wifi modules and other things. Continuous improvement makes modularity more difficult.
Saying Fuji should just modularize software assumes that every one of those cameras have similar processing capabilities and memories. That’s usually not the case, especially with custom ASICs with small production runs. The firmware developers are probably dealing with those differences in hardware. Firmware debugging is also a lot more expensive than application software development. You don’t necessarily get that convenient hardware API that’s makes coding easier. Hardware limitations and higher development costs to support older models are very real limitations.
I’m wondering how big Fujifilm’s firmware development team is and how much they get compensated.
I do expect Fujifilm will go after low hanging fruit and do changes that are small enough to implement across a larger number of cameras. For example, future lens compatibility.
If true, this is very poor from FUJI regarding X-E2 owners. Please offer an SDK kit if this camera is no longer part of supported products.
well, there will be a firmware update for the X-E2 pretty soon. As said in the article, it will allow you to control your X-E2 via smartphone and a few more things
I think after 2 years I would pay for one but till then they need to keep it updated.
In fact, the X-E2 will be updated soon. Rumors say it won’t get the electronic shutter for now, but it will get other stuff like remote control.
Thats fine I was generalizing, I do think the older ones 2 modals down like the X100 XE-1 XA-1 and XM-1 as long as its working well are fine with out.
as said below, X-E2 and X-T1 are pretty much one and same generation of cameras, otherwise why would they have limited the X-T1 to all the features of the X-E2 from start ?
The hardware is not identical. There are some differences which may present issues in updating the firmware.
So why was the X-T1 identical to the X-E2 when it came out ? I can’t believe Classic Chrome or most of the FW features of X-T1 could not come to the X-E2 (leaving electronic shutter aside).
FUJI realizing that to make money you can’t give everything for free and you need to keep people buying cameras, not waiting for free FW upgrades 🙂
We don’t yet know what is coming or not to the E2. So it’s way too early to say this or that isn’t making it to the next update. The T1 was thought to be identical but there are differences in hardware and firmware.
Well I for one am happy with getting the remote control and any little extras they give us. Classic chrome would be a nice addition too, as I tend to primarily use the jpegs for anything not landscape – life is too short to post-process every shot!
I would definitely pay for a new firmware if there was something I really wanted, but doubt I would pay for electronic shutter as that doesn’t have much use for me.
FW updates should never be paid for – period! You either make a good product from the start or at least try to “fix” any problems via firmware. As for improvements or new features via FW, they should be offered freely by the manufacturer to its customers.
I disagree. Yes if there are outstanding issues that should be a free update. But why should fuji provide a free update which gives the xe2 remote shooting and the update that brought it’s evf up to the standard of the xt1..? Don’t get me wrong I love free updates. But I would be more than happy to pay for updates for NEW features. Look at Microsoft. ..if you want to upgrade to the nee version you have to pay an upgrade fee. It’s fair and reasonable I reckon
Paying for a new version of Windows (going From Vista to Win 7)is the same as going from a Fuji X100 to an X100s. You pay for that, but you would not pay for patches and functionality updates to the existing OS you purchased.
Having Fuji update the cameras via firmware is great, but the cost of doing so should be in the price you pay for the camera, not nickle and dime you after the fact.
Bad example Andrew. The x100s has completely different hardware (sensor evf etc). You can load windows 7 on your laptop which runs vista (at a cost) which is my point. For the basic firmware for new lenses etc – tgat4 should be free. But anything more I would not mind paying for (beats not having the option to upgrade your current camera like every other brand)
It is a good example if your hardware is not compatible to the new OS or does not have sufficient specs to run it properly.
Regardless, it is a bad idea to start a trend of requiring someone who buys a tool to pay for updates to it. If you are going to do that, they will lose more customers than ones that stay.
But they are not required to pay – only if they want the new feature (which you could consider an upgrade). As said many times, fixes for free, features cost.
Ok so what if fuji gave you no updates (except for minor updates for lenses) like every other manufacturer? If fuji offered paid upgrades then that would be MORE than the rest and a good thing. ..
Why? Completely agree that bugs and issues should be fixed FOC but additional features? There should be no expectation for this, just a nice warm fuzzy feeling if and when you get them
Fix problems for free, paid new features is not shocking – it’s a bit like your iphone, you get free software fixes and you buy apps when you want new features.
It is like the X-E1 never existed. All potential updates are focused on the X-E2 and newer, even though the X-E1 was the mother of it. It is really sad to see how the X-E1/X-Pro1 users are being put a side when it comes to Kaizen. Maybe it is because there isn’t enough sales of those camera bodies compared to the followers, or maybe Kaizen was only adapted with the X-E2 model? There are still some improvements left behind for those models, and in my opinion Early Adopters should get a pice of the pie as well.
I also have X-E1 but if they put all these new features in old bodies, they will lower the sales of the new ones. Т1 is a flagship body, thats why E2 suffers too…
From a technical perspective, the X-E1 and X-Pro used a slower processor than the later models, hence why it can’t have the same features/speed as them.
Well, no x100s update then I suppose?
“Fuji is also aware of the complaints about too aggressive NR at high
ISO in JPEG’s for the X-T1 and X-E2 (NOTE: the fact that they are aware
of it, doesn’t necessarily mean that they will improve that via
firmware).”? This is a major flaw in these two otherwise great performers, it would be a much more welcome and much more important update than adding a new film simulation (for example) and all Fuji needs to do is add an OFF option to the existing NR options menu. So why in the world wouldn’t Fuji improve overly aggressive NR in the X-T1 and X-E2 via firmware?
If Fujifilm develop a perfekt AE-Braketing (+/- 4) and a Live bulb or live composite mode like Olympus I will pay a lot more than $40
I think that firmware updates were initially the reason why many people
changed to Fuji system. I hope that Fuji is not
going to adopt their philosophy of firmware updates because it has gotten
popular…
One of the main attractions to the Fujifilm platform is their attention to their users. It keeps me buying more lenses and bodies. I feel safe knowing they’ll be up-to-date for the next handful of advancements. I’d hate to think that if they were as big as Nikon they wouldn’t have to keep us as happy, so I hope Fujifilm realises that it’s these things that set them apart in the marketplace.
But… I would consider paying for an update/modification that changed my exposure compensation dial into an ISO dial. In full manual mode it doesn’t do anything anyway and I wish I had an external ISO dial. (X-Pro1/X100 series etc… non X-T1)
I picked $20, but reserve that for true feature additions. If the hardware can support a feature of a newer model, but wasn’t “invented” at the time of release, go for it. I’ll pay. I imagine there being maybe 2-3 of those during a camera’s life. Any bug fixes and compatibility updates (new lenses etc) should remain free, obviously.
I have said it before and I’ll say it again. There are two updates that I really want. A fully manual movie mode (so that I can sell off my Canon stuff and invest in Fuji glass) and a remote control in the app (seems to be on the way. Apart from that, I’m good.
I have an X10, and would gladly pay a reasonable amount merely for focus peaking. I voted $25, but would likely pay more if it meant I didn’t have to buy a newer camera. This assumes, of course, that the X10’s processor actually has the chops for focus peaking, which it may not.
Were I a Fuji manager, I’d think hard about the profit margins on this sort of thing. The EXR processors are relatively widespread, and focus peaking has been engineered into several of them (the HS50, anyway) so if it can be done, and if people are willing to pay for it, it could be worth their while. Unfortunately, this is hard to determine.
I think it’s very fair for them to stick to firmware updates for the newest camera in each line. It’s pretty normal for the tech world, and I wouldn’t be upset about that.
So we should expect updates/support for the X-T1/X-E2/X100S until the next gen pops up, imo.
I’d like to see the Classis Chrome film simulation and the Electronic shutter for my X100s! Pay for it?! Perhaps, if that would make the difference between update or no update.
I agree with Jason H below. I have a X-Pro1 and X-E2, I’d like free firmware updates for these until the X-Pro2 and X-E3 are out. After I would still like access to the full firmware upgrade and would be happy to pay. Andy
Sorry but this is getting sycophantic. You can’t bang on about Kaizen when they only look after a camera for a year or so until it is replaced. We are not comparing Fuji to other companies, Kaizen was supposed to put them on their own pedestal.
Kaizen is dead and this is getting boring.
Sorry – but where do you get the “Kaizen is dead ” from ? The posted /rumour/ says that may be no electronic shutter ill be dded to the xe-2, but every thing else still included. And to be fair this is a massive update to the initial specs sheet, you cannot really expect it to be added to all cameras. As far as we know there might be a sound technical reason why this does not work. We cannot assume that the xe-2 is an x-t1 in a different body.
Sorry but is this not what it felt like when the X-T1 came out ? Aside from AF/EVF what were the differentiating SOFTWARE features ? right none, there we go 🙂
I am sorry – not native speaker so I do not get what you mean. AFAIK the xe-2 already received an nice refresh with the EVF improvements and several new features. Hence the “Kaizen is dead” from the OP seems extreme
Just saying the X-T1 had no difference in software with the X-E2 when it came out. Therefore it cannot be that different to it as far as hardware is concerned.
And an iPhone 5s and 5 run the same OS but they sure as heck have different internals. You can’t make that kind of determination based on a superficial look at the user interface of a camera.
But the devil is in the detail …
First – the iphone 5 and 5s are released 1 year apart – not 3 months apart like XE2 and XT1.
Secondly – apple advertises all these new features for the new phone, due to the new hardware capability, and surprise … iOS runs smoother on the latest device.
Thirdly – I cannot think of any for profit business which would not capitalize on a product’s superior hardware AND software capability at launch. Clearly here it was not the case as X-T1 came with the exact same high iso issues, jpeg profiles, detail smearing, picture quality as X-E2.
No-one is arguing with the fact FUJI is trying to push sales towards the X-T1 – the newer product. However it is pretty clear that FUJI is turning its back on certain users with regards to its Kaizen philosophy.
The complete FUJI silence on X-E2 FW upgrade at photokina speaks for itself !
FUJI really should clarify its stance on FW upgrades, happy to pay for new features, and fully expect bug fixes to come for free (if offered via FW upgrade).
If I may rectify this – the X-T1 /appeared/ to have no difference in software. ie the functionalities and user interface were close enough to look the same. This is absolutely no indication on how much both hardware are different. I am not sure were your knowledge comes from, but from my experience this is not a valid reasoning as you do not have enough information to base it on. I guess we’ll have to agree to diasagree
X-e1 release date: Sept 2012
Last “Kaizen” update: Dec 2013.
Mostly bug fixes for a beta product.
It’s still a great camera, it has made me money, and I love it, and I won’t replace it until either Fuji significantly upgrades the sensor or I go full frame – but are these updates really anything special?
A year and two months of Kaizen.. And then nothing? Let’s see how long they keep it updated for new lenses.
What I am trying to say. I bought an xe-1 in April 2014. Got a very usable camera, after fully updating it. Which I find pretty decent. I believe, from past experience with other manufacturers that Fuji was decent enough to provide a tad over a year of genuine improvements whilst other manufacturers would have waited and only sold the xe-2, leaving all xe-1 owners with no other opportunity than staying with the previous model, buy the new one or leave to another brand. As for Beta Product : what most people seem not to recognize if that Fuji engineers are humans: they learn something every day so I do not see their products as beta but as systems they carry on working on, finalising new features or improving existing ones. and I am not saying that there are no bugs, but as well as fixing the bugs they also improve their existing products. Something few manufacturers, if any, in any business, do (a few examples spring to mind Microsoft with Vista and Win 8, Apple with the Iphone 6, Nikon with several models, some car manufacturers ….)
And what would prevent someone from spreading a firmware update he paid for? Now you’ll get costs for guarding against piracy which will be hacked and spending on the wrong features.
Just state in advance for how long will a camera enjoy Kaizen and be aware of past promises.
Quite easy. It can be signed to only work with your camera’s serial number. That’s how in-car navigation updates work. They’re packaged to be decrypted only by the private key in the car.
I still smell extra development costs for making the system secure(and then resecuring it). Besides opening the door to bean counters in Fuji(they are everywhere) to get more marketeers to push paid updates instead of more developers.
Like anything in business there are costs for revenue. If they feel the projected revenue is high enough they’ll go through the costs. Obviously MANY places have.
And last time I checked Fuji weren’t in the software business. Just sounds like a big ole pile of hassle for the few who would actually pay for it.
It’s getting ridiculous.
Fuji being the only company doing those kaizen updates in the industry is enough to explain the fact that doing FW updates is expensive. Otherwise everyone would do it more often.
My step-brother is an iphone apps programmer. And the amount of problems they get when apple is just releasing a new iOS (not even changing the hardware). Believe me, programming the same FW update for XT1 and XE2 must be really far from easy.
Kaizen updates isn’t written on the box of the camera when you buy it, it’s not part of the camera’s price. It’s totally free for us so THEY write de rules.
Old fuji owners should be happy to get the updates they get.
Even the X100 is getting an update!!! seriously… it’s better than christmas before christmas for X100 owners.
I wouldn’t mind if it was part of the camera’s price actually.
Maybe it is part of the initial price…. only Fuji knows. One thing
for sure… there’s a few things that distinguish Fujifilm from other
manufacturers and one of them is this so called Kaizen approach in
releasing fimrware… while others call it early patch/updates to an
otherwise early release of operating software. Patrick seems quite keen
on promoting this so called rumor… I say its a trial balloon… and
its incorrect to imply that costs in continually upgrading all those
X-cameras is expensive and the driving factor. I’ve owned a copy of the X-S1 and the X-10 for example and after a couple of updates that was the end of the road.
We pay up front for ALL the functionality of a given camera planned in
its life cycle and Kaizen just dolls it out a bit at a time. Nothing
more nothing less…
I think some of the FW updates on Fuji were due to lack of Beta testing and should be free. Going forward those oversignhts shoud reduce and expect the gap betwen releases to increase. X100S to X100T was not a long product run so FW updates to X100S should continue. XE2 yes, XE1 I can understand why that would stop, very Beta product. I would pay for older updates if that is what was required.
Any camera that is released with buggy or poorly implemented software should be updated until it provides a good user experience. Adding new features via firmware and continuing to improve performance for a current and previous generation model seems very fair, while stopping development on models two generations behind also seems acceptable (provided they were fully realized products). For example: I’d expect Fuji to continue to support X100s and X100t, but would not expect further dev on the original X100. And would hope to see ongoing support for XPro1 owners. Since XPro1 will likely contain very old hardware by the time a “3” is released, it would not be surprising if it can’t receive certain features. As long as Fuji is transparent about why, I think customers will be satisfied.
Kaizen has built a lot of brand loyalty for Fuji. They should be very careful and clear in their messaging about this.
Of course you realize Fuji hasn’t had any messaging about it. It’s a new source to a rumor site. Eventually, though, they will standardize the expectations because people will always want more for free and excoriate the company for wanting money.
Of course. But for whatever reason, Fuji’s language isn’t always very clear. The “full sized sensor” language on their Photokina PR is an example. Yes, I’m sure that this is unintentional. Yes they’ll likely be customer focused in their approach as they have been. Of course they’re aware of the loyalty impact of kaizen firmware updates. But I’d love to see them stave off days of speculation and confusion on rumor sites like this due to poor copywriting or editing. 😉
I don’t think they are too worried about the fringe users who post on boards like those of us who post here.
Part of what’s made Fuji so successful is actively listening to what their users want.
Sites like this one are where they can find the customers who are most vocal and active on social media, and passionate about their products.
Smart companies worry about EVERY customer, but people who are passionate about the products and are talking about them would be my FIRST priority, along with engaging with trusted pros (which they obviously do as well).
I’ll bet they’re listening. Capturing and measuring the social space should be part of a product team’s job if they want to stay in touch with their market.
This is understandable. We buy the camera based on the specs at the time. The few things they’ve added have been great, but I cannot say that I expect my X-E2 to have all the features of the X-T1 added. As long as they correct any bugs, and fine tune things like AF and jpeg processing, I’m happy.
But lens support should be free and ongoing for a decade or more
i need electronic shutter, computer control and usb-host (instead MTP mode, as flash card) with powered by usb cable
Yes, it costs money to have the firmware updates done, developers have to code it and there is testing involved. However, if Fuji wants to continue to provide them, then they need to figure out a way to build the cost of doing that type of business into the cost of the cameras when they are purchased new.
Honestly, I think that Fuji has finally realized that they are cannibalizing the sales of newer cameras because they give no one an incentive to upgrade because they have provided the majority of the functionality that would have made an upgrade attractive.
Fuji’s release cycle is too aggressive and money is made in selling new hardware. By stopping firmware updates except to correct flawed functionality, they would sell more new cameras as people would need to update to get the newest stuff.
I would pay for WIFI in my X100s. No doubt about it. Thats the one feature I really want. Electronic shutter is second.
Hardware is required for Wifi.
Then include that hardware in the next firmware upgrade. Geez, do we have to spell everything out for them?
😉
I wouldn’t mind to get the panorama, a few nu jpeg styles on my xm1 and the multiple frame for low light..thanks Fuji
All these updates over the years. We got spoiled. No question.
But hey, the Fuji X-Series is basically built on the same sensor and the same chip across all bodies!
Fuji is a tech company, is it too much to expect updates that apply to all X-cameras, which actually work more or less the same? And what is with your ex-forgotten-flagship?
The sensor is largely unchanged but the internals otherwise are radically different. Each unique microprocessor or ASIC would require custom coding. It’s not as simple as you’re thinking.
OK, the internals and the software might be different to a large extent. Yet still, it’s all made at their own place, and probably by the same guys. I guess technical issues aren’t really the big issue here.
It’s rather a clever way to tell people that it’s time to buy something new. The old X-Pro1 is still as good and sexy as ever. But if you want to have all these cool new features – these won’t come by update for free, sorry.
I think Fuji has done well by X-Pro1 buyers.
It’s hard to say if it’s the same people or not. Obviously the same company but very easily the firmware is written by 1 or 2 people max. So it could easily be 1 person or 2 people per camera. It wouldn’t be a large group. And what they do on older cameras keeps them from working on newer ones. Hence the need to make it profitable for Fuji to hire more people.
Open-source the soft, saves the costs of development and promotes _INSANE_ growth of the hardware platform. We are in 2014 stop being greedy and work with people, be an example, be a true leader for a global change, open your eyes to the big picture.
Ditto. Something like CHDK or Magic Lantern won’t hurt either.
Embedded software requires a fraction of the processing power (making hardware cheaper) and protects a company’s IP.
The problem is that the firmware updates were initially (and still are) necessary because mirrorless is not yet a mature technology and the companies are still in the process of figuring out how to cater to the ergonomic and technical needs of the enthusiast and professional market in that form factor.
Consequently, firmware updates still mainly fix things that they should have gotten right from the start (which, as we should not forget, in many cases, other companies did, like Sony with focus peaking). Releasing a video function that offers no manual control also was somewhat surprising to me. No auto exposure – fine, but no manual exposure control on a professional camera is really out there. On the X100, initially, manual focus was completely unusable. Auto focus was close to unusable (though in Fujifilm’s defense, one could argue that the X100 was created as an ultra premium compact camera and should be measured by compact camera standards, but it ended up being professionals who started buying them as travel cameras, which was never the idea behind the initial “Finepix X100” as far as I understand).
I still firmly believe that things that obviously and indisputably should have been right from the start should be fixed for free to the customer, for the current and for previous camera generations. We should also consider that firmware updates for the current generation help the current models stay more competitive with newly released models from the competition. It would also be a bit problematic for the same current model camera to ship with the newest firmware, but people who already own it would have to pay. So current generation: free, except if it is really a major breakthrough feature that then everyone would have to buy more or less an extra license to (like, say, Raw/ProRes/DNxHD 10bit log video for example).
That being said, I would be perfectly willing to pay for major improvements that are backported to older camera generations. $30 is certainly a very moderate price tag if it is an update that really makes the camera a lot better by adding features or doubling the AF speed or similar.
When considering the price of “Kaizen” for Fujifilm, it is probably not really the actual price of developing and testing the firmware that matters so much, but the price of the lost sales of newer generation cameras when people suddenly realize that their current camera with a firmware update is still perfectly adequate. However, I would like to think that X series cameras are more of a lasting investment than a throwaway gadget that people replace every two years. I’d actually be interested in seeing some market research on how Fujifilm customers spend their money. Maybe it turns out that if the firmware update means the don’t replace their camera with a newer model, they invest their budget in a new lens instead, which may well have a higher profit margin.
Lastly, we should not forget that improvements and new features on older cameras via firmware updates is one of the main arguments that makes people invest in the X system in the first place. And I am also willing to pay more for a camera if I know that it is going to be kept up to date and will last me. As a professional, knowing a camera like the back of my hand and knowing it reacts in certain situations well is often more valuable than having the latest camera model so I try not to migrate to a new camera too often. So even though these firmware updates may be expensive to develop and test, I am sure they pay off in terms of attracting new people to the X system who will then remain loyal customers over decades to come, even when mirrorless cameras are mature enough to not need new features, problem fixes or speed improvements.
All I want for the longest time is color focus peaking for the xpro1. Is that too much to ask? Other cameras got it. Why can’t the xpro1?!
I can tell you that focus peaking in Fuji is not a precise tool, I have desired it much for my X-E2 but now I do not use it at all because it’s lottery to get right focus. I prefer to focus on standard mode where focusing is much more precise.
I don’t know about Fuji lenses but I am having a great succes focusing my old Canon nFD 50/1.8 SCC with focus peaking.
It does take some getting used to though.
Speaking about the X-t1 here.
On my X100, when manually focusing using focus peaking, i am regularly significantly off compared to where the AF says the ideal focus point lies. I have now adopted a strategy where I use AF-On to check how the pattern has to look and where it has to be for a certain point to be in focus.
But I imagine much has been improved since then and newer models have probably made this much more usable.
I’ve been on record saying Fuji should charge for certain updates, especially cameras >1 year of release. It’s a win-win for everyone. I’d pay $20 for a meaningful update or $5 for smaller updates.
Fuji should make the firmware program very modular, so it will not cost much to update older cameras. Like what Apple did with iOS, the new updates can be applied to older models, and keep the old models up to date for 2-3 years. I think it makes sense for Fuji to continue to release new features for camera models announced in the past 2 years.
I don’t think Fuji should charge customers for the updates. I don’t see how it could become a relevant business model. I think most of the customers are not willing to pay. If there are paying customers, Fuji needs to develop a platform to charge customers, kind of DRM thing. The DRM platform cost could be more expensive than the actual cost used to enhance the firmware.
A couple of things. Apple has many many more developers working on iOS and makes a whole lot more profit than Fuji. The lineage of the devices is consistent in Apple hardware but iOS doesn’t add features specific to newer devices to older ones. For example, you can’t do Slo-Mo in an iPhone 5 but can in 5s and 6. Fuji Camera works on a different budget with fewer people and clearly make less profit so there’s less incentive to do that for free. It sure sounds nice but there’s far more work than you realize involved.
Updates that add features are analogous to apps on devices or computers. They represent added value and it’s fair to expect to be paid for it.
I’d not pay for a firmware update that brings adjustments to existing features like changing the noise reduction parameters or the focus point direct selection … But IMO the electronic shutter is far more than a firmware update, it’s a huge change on the spec sheet of the camera and for that, I’d gladly pay more than 40 bucks.
“Like what Apple did with iOS, the new updates can be applied to older models, and keep the old models up to date for 2-3 years.”
2-3 years is actually pretty poor service, and Apple itself used to do better. Maybe it’s common in the mobile world, but a lot of old machines (>10 yrs!) can run the most recent versions of Linux, and Windows itself typically runs on much older hardware than that. Apple used to be much better; I remember when that changed, and at one point they were still selling machines that wouldn’t even run their most recent hardware. Rather sad how they’ve changed.
Yes, Windows does support older devices but they tend to run terribly. And they’re not likely to keep that policy going as it has hindered Windows development quite a bit. Linux doesn’t factor in because it’s not even a blip on the map. Apple supports quite a bit more than you’re thinking. You should read up on it. Maybe you should use Android devices as your example. Many, if not most, are sold unupgradable even though the hardware itself may be updateable.
As I originally wrote, I’m not sure about the mobile market. As for Linux, whether it’s “a blip on the map” depends on what market you’re talking about, whether you count “Android” as “Linux” (good arguments for and against), etc.
I use Apple computers; I like Apple computers; I work on Apple computers. But that doesn’t diminish the number of times I’ve seen Apple refuse to provide software updates for hardware that they were selling within the previous 2-3 years.
I suspect that the “cost” that bothers Fuji is not just money, but the fact that an “endless kaizen” philosophy locks them into outdated technology. Chipsets get improved on a cycle of months, but the oldest X camera is now more than three years old. Look at smartphones, for example: manufacturers would like the latest version of iOS or Android to run on as many phones as possible, but they can’t afford to “dumb down” the features for full compatibility with the very oldest hardware.
Camera companies could look at firmware more like an operating system and build one OS that works across a product line. New features could then become “apps” that could be sold to older models or bundled with the latest OS and hardware (just like Apple used to do with MacOS and iOS).
And the OS could be opened up to third party development. (I wish Apple would make a real camera).
Or more simply, ongoing development could be an annual subscription that promises improvements and provides tech support.
The model of camera as locked, proprietary box seems anachronistic. They’ve become little computers and should probably start acting more like them sooner than later. A camera that updates itself via WiFi, sees my network and can upload photos, and has an app ecosystem would be pretty compelling, and I believe COULD co-exist with all of the great “analog” controls and style that I love about Fuji.
The problem with any shared OS is that it requires more hardware (processing power) to achieve the same speed as proprietary software. It’s like comparing machine code to a high level programming language. What people need (and demand) with cameras is speed, and that can only be delivered with proprietary systems.
I’m not an engineer so can’t speak to that entirely, but certainly the trend is more and more processing power in smaller, more efficient chips. If an OS can’t be implemented in a camera today (I’m not convinced it isn’t possible — phones have gotten pretty powerful), then it certainly will be possible in the very near future. Someone will do this.
To continue the Apple analogy, first generation iOS devices can’t install the latest OS but do receive security updates and bug fixes, albeit less often.
Apple would only do that in dire circumstances. They’ve dropped support for the older devices entirely. Same with their computers. Very similar in the Android world, too, in that most devices are never able to be updated.
Android is by far the worst. I have been waiting over a year for the 4.4 update and android L is due out next month. Apple drop support for devices when they believe they won’t run the new OS well enough.
I hope the fact that the X-Pro1 was not mentioned in this rumor was a simple omission. While I’d be happy to pay $50 or even more for meaningful updates for a body that is no longer current, it sure would be odd to offer free updates to the E2 & T1 but not the Pro1.
Except that you are not taking into account that the XPRO1 has the oldest of all X-cameras hardware, so it’s not a matter of wanting it but I’m pretty sure that with the old processor, engine, etc. the XPRO1 simply can’t receive the new stuff.
I’m disappointed to hear that the X-E2 wouldn’t be getting the electronic shutter firmware. I think I saw the rumor that the X100s would be getting it, which, while nice, isn’t as important to me since it has the built in ND filter. I purchased an X-T1, but returned it as I prefer the rangefinder style body better, and purchased the X-E2. It’s a shame that the X-E2, which is contemporaneous with X-T1, and on par in many respects, is already treated as an obsolete product compared to its SLR sibling. I don’t expect Fuji to add features, nor do so for free necessarily, for all of their cameras. It’s just that it would be nice if the relatively new X-E2 saw similar love to other current cameras.
Or look at it this way. The X-E2 was announced about 1 year ago. Perhaps the X-E3 will be announced soon to raise the bar?
I’d love to see an X-E3 with:
* Weather sealing
* Portrait orientation EVF support (probably feasible in firmware today for the 2)
* Tilting LCD
* Touch LCD
* Even faster AF
* Faster flash sync
* Bigger buffer, faster write
* Better video quality
What else does the X-E3 “need”?
My wishlist is similar but different:
Tilt LCD
More PDAF over more area
More AF control (closest subject, group priority, follow focus)
Buffer
Better LCD and EVF than today
Faster still, especially write speeds
But the X100 series have a shutter speed limit of 1/1000 at f2….That’s a huge difference to 1/4000 that your X-E2 has
A unique approach would be for fuji to develop appropriate APIs for the firmware thus allowing independent developers to expand the capabilities if the fuji x system. This would allow fuji to get onto a common code base (if they aren’t there ready) and really extend the idea of continuous improvements. This would also create / expand a developers eco-system.
As for FW improvements I would like to see the “multiple exposure” capability be extended beyond existing two images and allow raw – not just jpegs. Additionally all the special effects functions (e.g. toy) should also be selectable as raw capture.
I think the first camera manufacturer to accept this and capitalize on it will really gain traction.
I would pay for some updates on my X-A1 in future, considering that is just a 1 year old camera!
Fuji gave X-E2 users big elbow. This is almost as old camera as X-T1 and its price was high too, but Fujifilm decided to favour the X-T1 buyers only. This is a truth about Fujifilm Kaizen philosophy, I lost to Fujifilm trust a few month ago, when I realised that Fujifilm is deaf on most users request to fix many serious issues – smearing, waxy-plastic high iso, ugly magneta cast, foliage, poor AF in low light, useless AF-C, poorly cofigurable buttons, weak WB performance in mixed and artificial light, terrible red colour rendering, narrow DR. Many of these issues have not occured in previous X-cameras X-Pro1/X-E1/X-100, so many new users hoped and expected that Fujilm will repair what the company spoiled. But these were lost hopes only, same as with improvements that X-T1 is going to receive with new firmware upgrade. Yeah, remote control via iphone and intervalomentr were on top X-E2 users wish list. Kaizen philosophy is overrited, it’s only a marketing. Fuji cameras even with newest firmware upgrade, e.g AF improvements, are still far behind AF performance of Olympus, Sony, Panasonic, Nikon. I could pay extra for new firmware uprgades to suport Fujifilm, ok, I can accept it because I want to suport the company to be on the marketplace, but who will guarante me that Fujifilm’s “improvements” will reach level performace of other cameras? X-E2 in just a few sides was improved over X-E1, but in many was worsen. Based on all my experiences with Fujifilm, I do not see a base I can still trust the company and I do not see myself with it for longer future.
Sounds like you really don’t know how to use the Fuji cameras. That’s OK. There are many fabulous camera systems out there. Find one that works for you.
I know it very well as many X-E2 users that found these issues too and are not blind. NR set to -2 still does not eliminate unnatural smearing. How do you set the camera to eliminate ugly magneta cast and foliage on JPEGs? How do you set camera to eliminate bad red colour rendering of the sensor? How do you set the camera for consitent WB performance? Let me know. Hope you do not have only to say: shoot RAW.
Change film simulation from Velvia to Provia
I shoot in raw and don’t have any issues. 🙂 And even when I have shot in jpeg I haven’t found significant issues. What you’re complaining about is a matter of personal aesthetics. It’s important to you but may not be to everyone.
Consistent WB? There are a myriad number of white balance tools out there both before the shot and after the shot. If it means that much to you use one. Just know that there are plenty of people who use the E2 who have done nice portrait or landscape work without the nit picking worry.
This is the typical “there is no problem here move on” arrogant attitude, sorry but if you offer a product with JPG you should address these issues. X-E2 is not a RAW-only camera.
Instead of telling him he “really doesn’t know how to use FUJI cameras” maybe you should accept not everyone shots in RAW like you.
The list he quotes is pretty much a good summary of JPEG issues:
smearing, waxy-plastic high iso, ugly magneta cast, foliage, poor AF in low light, useless AF-C, poorly cofigurable buttons, weak WB performance in mixed and artificial light, terrible red colour rendering, narrow DR. Many of these issues have not occured in previous X-cameras X-Pro1/X-E1/X-100
FUJI can’t just wash their hands off them, but that’s a commercial decision for them to take.
COMMERCIAL DECISION is what we are talking about here mainly, not technical in my view.
FUJI should come clean on this, after all Kaizen was their marketing strategy it’s only fair for them to be called upon it when they do a big U-turn to X-E2 owners.
Another blind user who do not see JPEGs issues or rather Fujifilm fanboy? There are plenty of people you seem not to noticed who examined these issues of X-Trans II sensor – including Steve Huff – and showed them. Saying it’s personal aesthetics proves that you do not know nothing about JEPG IQ differences between X-E1 and X-E2. To take nice coloured portrait or landscape with X-E2 needs very good lighting, otherwise it fails often and needs much PP. X-E1 WB performs much greater and consistently compared to X-E2, and does need to use numbers of toold that E-X2 need to. You are ignorant or never really used these cameras.
Steve Huff? Please! He’s a nobody. A slap head with a man-bag obsession, who has a revolving door policy of loving shiny expensive things, because they are shiny and expensive. Although sometimes he breaks the rules and likes them because they are expensive and shiny.
If I want part-qualified opinion, I’ll go to a barber, a London cabbie, or a barista with an attitude. The only thing good I can say about Steve Huff is he doesn’t look like he’s about to explode from over-saturation like Ken ‘eye-popping’ Rockwell.
I’m not a fan of Steve Huff but how does his GAS disqualify his observations?
Because he needs to make his site pay, and polemic gets more hits than balanced opinion. And if the original review doesn’t blow an observation out of proportion, there’s always the attack dogs willing to turn up the volume.
I don’t deny the presence of the issues surrounding the X-Trans II, but I think they are massively overstated. I don’t consider them a major issue, because they do not intrude on my day-to-day use, and can be worked around on the rare occasions they do intrude on my photography. YMMV, but I think photography is about solving problems, rather than finding problems and carping on about them.
The thing is though that Huff is pretty much renowned for his nigh universal gushing reviews. The guy wets his pants over just about anything he gets his hands on. So what would his motivation be to single out the X-Trans issues?
Who knows? There is so much ‘stealth’ motivation happening now, it’s hard to tell whether someone’s reasons for stating something are benign or malign.
True. But I don’t see how that justifies character assassination.
Who needs justification? This is the internet… character assassination comes with the territory. We hide behind fake names and poke sticks at people for fun. He’s public domain, I stay the right side of trolling. We all win!
If unfounded slander is the right side of trolling, then I wonder what the wrong side is. There is no “win” in your position, just loss (of credibility and respect).
Wow, touchy, angry, and humourless. The full trifecta! I get bonus points for even talking to you.
“He’s a nobody” – his standing as a photographic entity appears to be limited to running a site about photography (and photographing a Seal concert). If that makes him famous in the photographic community, it makes him famous for being famous, rather than fame for doing something photographically worthwhile. That puts him on a par with the fourth-runner up in a photographic Big Brother contest.
Mr. Huff has no hair. He is, therefore, a slap-head by definition. The term is an insult, but not defamatory.
He has a man-bag obsession. Again, a reading of his site and the number of lovely leather goods he has worked through, this seems unquestionable.
He likes shiny and expensive things. Leica? More Leica? Sony RX1? Yet more Leica?
Sometimes he likes expensive and shiny things? See above.
Oh, while we are at it, it’s libel, not slander. And if we were throwing libel around, I didn’t accuse the man of wetting his pants, which is potentially defamatory.
Credibility and respect are over-rated. My feelings are he who dies with their fun button hanging out, wins.
Judging someone (both me and mr. Huff) on superficialities could win you a buck as a parlour trick but it’s pretty presumptuous elsewhere.
This site’s admin also runs a site about photography, so I guess that makes him a nobody as well?
You deliberately performed an ad hominem attack on someone and put up a cavelier act when called upon it as if it all belongs to your commendably frivolous attitude towards life.
I know humour and fun when I see and, and you sir are neither.
Have a good day.
Look around you, all we have is superficial now. I should know; I’m deeply superficial. There is no elsewhere. Surface is all there is.
Oh I don’t judge. I just mock. It’s almost what I do best (people I have come to think of as ‘those I work with’ like to call me ‘the Vogon’ because of my officious, petty nature, and my grotesque appearance; all of which make me a natural and gifted bureaucrat. But I like the mocking bit better).
Congratulations on spotting the argumentum ad hominem. I decided as everyone else was coming up with all manner of informal fallacies here, I’d try one on for size. It fits snugly round the middle, but the gusset is a bit tight.
And extremely well done for spotting the cavalier in me. My family were proud royalists when the time came, and wore the floppy hat with pride. Huzzah!
Steve and Ken…. go for the tri-fecta and blast that fool Eric Kim too. No issues with RAW or JPEGs. What are you people smoking????
The X-E2 was announced only 2 months before the X-T1, and it’s less than a year old. They really should update the X-E2 with all the new features if they plan to update the X-T1. I wouldn’t consider the X-E2 to be ‘old’ since it’s the newest camera in the X-E line. I can understand not continuing to update a camera once a newer version is released, but it’s reasonable to expect the current model in each line to keep getting updated. It makes the current models all more competitive. The X-E2 does not compete with the X-T1. I for one wouldn’t “upgrade” to an X-T1 for the new features, because I like the X-E2 form factor much better.
Patrick, has this new source contributed and been correct in the past? If not, then I wouldn’t believe this rumor at all. Sounds almost like a troll trying to get the Fuji community upset
Yes, this kind of rumors can bring FUJI very fast in a bad daylight. Amost 100 comments now, entering the critical level of being more a fact than a rumor ?
TAKE IT WITH BAGS OF SALT!
hehe… it’s a rumor, sure. It may “bring FUJI very fast in a bad daylight”, but I’m not Fujifilm’s house organ, so I write what I want ;).
I talked with the source, we discussed, and I decided to share it. It also makes a lot of sense to me. Really, could you imagine Fuji updating the following cameras continously? X10, X100, X-PRO1, X-S1, X-E1, XF1, X20, X100S, X-M1, X-A1, X-E2, XQ1, X-T1, X100T and X30? As much as Fuji is dedicated to its customers, it’s frankly impossible to keep all these cameras continoulsy updated with the latest features without spending an absurd amount of money.
Therefore I launched the idea of the paid firmwares…. so Kaizen could continue also for older cameras, and customers are happy to pay some bucks and not be forced to buy the newer camera model.
It’s definitely not reasonable to keep updating old models with new features (although bug-fixes should continue to be done), but the current model of each line should be updated to help them compete against other manufacturers. So that narrows it down to the X-Pro1, X-T1, X-E2, X100T, X-A1, X-M1, X30, and XQ1. Adding new features helps them sell better even after other manufacturers release a new model, and encourages current users to keep their camera instead of jumping ship to a different brand
yes, the soures talked of “new features” and not “bug fixes”. So these will continue.
Fuji has to make a selection, and I think the list you made is a good one. Focus on these cameras, for all the others offer paid firmware updates. That could be the compromise… and since we know that Fuji listens, there is hope they will pay some attention to the “paid firmware” idea today
“……..but the current model of each line should be updated to help them compete against other manufacturers. So that narrows it down to the X-Pro1, X-T1, X-E2, X100T, X-A1, X-M1, X30, and XQ1 “.
Agreed.
If the Kaizen philosophy of FUJI can only be maintained with improvements for the latest models, than at least until one year after the release of the new model (X-T2, X-E3 etc).
Also a new paid Kaizen concept could do it . Just download the FW-update after paying. Must be simple.
Nevertheless KAIZEN must stay fore ever.
.
Seriously X-S1? When was the last time we saw any update for that camera?
I’ve just made the list of all the X-series cameras available… the best update for an X-S1 would be an X-S2 😉
I’ve been barking up tree for past two years for that.
So far, 1330 visitors voted for paid updates, 471 voted against. Let’s accept for a second that this is it, no more Fuji X users exist in the world.
$20 per FW update from each of the 1330 users equals $26,600.
…while some might say that this is a decent budget, especially considering that we’re merely adapting new camera’s FW to the old hardware, I beg to differ. Why? Lessee…
If Fuji did a direct mail campaign, reaching 1330 active targeted users would cost them at least $5*1330. Engaging them in a good way – quite likely much more, maybe over $100*1330. So by releasing FW upgrades (let’s not call them “updates”, as they are not just mere bugfixes) free of charge, Fuji are actually saving a lot of money on PR and marketing, and getting a cult following at the same time. This is how Kaizen works. Remember how Internet exploded with positive reviews when Fuji released a focus peaking for the “old” X100?… There. No camera gets left behind, and all that jazz.
Agreed. All of the marketing budget in the world can’t buy the goodwill generated by that X100 update
Oh, well, maybe we could reach a good part of the 1330 who voted for paid firmware upgrades via Fujirumors… for free 😉
Yes, I remember the Kaizen Buzz after the X100 firmware. It was a really cool move by Fujiflm. But at that time there were 6 X-cameras on the market, now there are 15. I don’t know how much money Fuji can invest to keep the “Kaizen-cult-status”.
No, that would be Gaizen, not Kaizen (I know that “gaizen” in Japanese means “astonished”, but I meant a word play, a combination of “gaijin” and “kaizen”)). A very westernized Kaizen. I can live with that model. However, if they manage to keep up the original philosophy “if your camera’s hardware supports that, you gonna get this new feature”, that will send a much more powerful message.
I have to admit though, Fuji always have been cryptic with their “original philosophy”, so we can only guesstimate here.
Agreed! It’s just a rumor (and from a new source), not an official announcement
What happens when older cameras like X-Pro1 need FW updates when new lenses are released? How would X-E1 work with new 90mm lens due out next year if no FW updates for it?
Seems like not good investment if have to buy new camera every couple years just to use new glass? I can use 40 year old AI glass on newest of Nikons but can’t use Fujinon glass on three year old Fuji?
The source just talked of “new features” and not of “lens supports” or “bug fixes”… so maybe the X-E1 won’t get color focus peaking, but if will get support for new lenses and eventually bug fixes
But doesnt that fall under FW updates?! I dont think I seen one for X-Pro1 in while since newer lenses come out
This is an interesting question. Fuji has really benefited from its reputation for improving existing products. I can say that Kaizen was a factor in my move from Canon to Fuji. That said, it seems reasonable that firmware updates for products that are no longer current be limited to fixes and lens updates.
The idea of paying for firmware upgrades that add significant features seems reasonable to me in theory but difficult to execute in practice. Typically, the number of people who would actually pay for an upgrade is a small percentage of those who *say* they would pay. And I would expect any upgrade to be free if one had just purchased the camera. Seems more likely to be a hassle than a significant revenue source.
As for the 1/32000 upgrade that X-E2 owners are focused on, given how relatively new this body is I would be surprised if it doesn’t receive this feature based strictly on development cost. I would bet there are other limitations. I’m guessing, of course, and only time will tell if this feature is close to as useful as it would be were it a mechanical shutter speed.
I’ve been thinking about this all day and I’ve come to realize that I would not own an X-T1 w/o the promise of Kaizen. The manual focus mode with back button AF—the only mode I use—is currently crippled (IMO) with the massive focus zone and no PDAF. I gambled that this would be addressed w/ a firmware update and it appears that this is will be the case. Without a reason to believe this I would still be using my 5D3.
at least 1/16000 for the XE2!!! 🙁
I suspect the problem is one of opening the mouth of a hungry ghost of Fuji users treating these upgrades like they are a basic human right, and then demanding them at all times for all cameras. Bringing the X100 and X-Pro1 up to speed did great things for the company’s reputation, but now it’s coming to haunt them.
It now means that anything that gets upgraded in one camera in the line is demanded by owners of every other camera in the range, no matter how old or how incompatible that upgrade might be. There’s only a finite amount of further upgrade possible with the X-Pro1 and the chances that what comes in later X-Pro models will be hard to retrofit into the older model without a fight. Unfortunately, where other companies can call a halt to major development at the tail end of the product life cycle, Fuji has shown ‘end of life’ does not equate to ‘end of production’ and we all start demanding our old products have new upgrades.
Pretty soon, Fuji’s biggest competitor is Fuji of two years ago.
The company should not halt firmware upgrades and updates to current models, and should allow potentially one last great firmware update at end of life, but after that it should fall back to bug-fixes and lens firmware updates. As to paying for firmware upgrades for older cameras, I’m not too happy with this idea. I think it would be best to make the past, the past and leave the products as they are at the replacement point. If you need to pay for later firmware updates, it will just cause chaos in the second-hand world, and that will upset more Fuji users wanting to get a good price for their older cameras.
Kaisen is part of the same family as Kanban, TPM, 5S and Lean Six Sigma (ISO-9001 and GMP from the physical manufacturing side of things, where the first group is used by engineering and the bean counters).
So, in keeping with those principls, if Lean Six Sigma was used from start, there would by need for any Kaisen as the X-series cameras would been released without need for firmware updates to begin with.
There’s a reason why only Fuji uses Kaisen, it’s because the competition is using Lean Six Sigma to begin with (w/ Nikon being the exception lately) Anycase, Kaisen principles are usually employed to fix problems, not prevent them or as a thank you to the customers.
LSS is a joke. Then again you are still in undergrad. you will learn. And I can’t see how you equate the two in the first place
There’s a difference between fixing bugs/defects vs. adding functionality. Adding focus peaking to the X100 or X-Pro1 is definitely Kaizen, since at the time it was released, focus peaking wasn’t a common feature to have. I do agree that the AF improvements are more of a fix, since they should have been as fast as the hardware can handle from the start.
unless you either need much more time to get it right or there is a learning curve. In that case you’e between a rock and a hard place: if you release early – knowing you can improve at a later date, people will scream “unfinished” or your release late and people will start screaming “no commitment/going downhill etc”
That’s a good point. Maybe for the X-series Fuji had to release the X100 and X10 without spending too much on R&D, as more a proof of concept. The cameras were wildly popular even with all the quirks, which proved that their idea was viable
I wonder how hard it is to implement just another customizable button (for ND or ISO or whatever) in the X100S. I won’t even mention Classic Chrome.
If you can’t keep up with your roadmap… just don’t make promises. I guess we got used of having “too much”.
Give my x100s 1/8000s please
First of all I have to thank Fuji for the updates they have delevoped for our cameras so far.
Would I pay for a firmware-update? It depends on the features it brings to my camera. More colours to choose as manual focus aid or an electronic shutter etc. Or can I have one without the other but for a cheaper price?
But that would have had a bitter taste for me, because that was not part of the deal, when I bought the camera in the first place. And part of the trust I have in Fuji is due to their Kaizen-Spirit.
There is one feature that I´d really like to see on the X-Series cameras, And that is a functional Exposure-Compensation Dial when at least one parameter of the exposure triangle is set to AUTO. I´d pay instantly 40 EURs to have that feature on my X-E1 – not Dollars – EUROS! Please Fuji, please!
Cheers,
Jens
That feature to me would be much more useful than Wi-Fi remote or the E-shutter, and should be added to all the cameras. It was a huge oversight on Fuji’s part to disable the EV dial in M mode with auto-ISO. Even the OM-2 I just bought, built in the late ’70s uses the EV dial in M mode (it biases the exposure needle in the viewfinder).
Thanks for your thoughts an support, specLegacy!
It can be really awkward to work around that “flaw” sometimes.
Let us hope someone at Fuji is listening…
Cheers,
Jens
Don’t have an X-E1 but I couldn’t agree more about the value of that feature.
Fuji is far and away the best when it comes to keeping their photographers happy.
The fact that they want (strive) to improve their cameras and share that with existing camera holders is what makes us loyal, that and because their cameras are so good.
Free updates yes, paid updates, no. I will eventually buy another Fuji “X” camera and I am happy to do so, but I would like to updates to keep coming.
X-Pro 2? In my mind would have the XT-1 view finder somehow with the second window for 100% critical focus. I also saw “red” highlights against B&W on a Sony that really popped, that would be welcomed too.
I really like what Fuji is doing, keep doing it….
Ready with picture of a pitch fork in hand, sir!
It’s interesting that the two largest groups are the opposite. Those who want Fujifilm sw engineers to work on them for free, and those who would pay a fair price towards their salary.
That said, to implement the payed updating survice Fujifilm needs to produce finished and complete products in thefirst place, and not ones that would be complete in december when the new firmware comes…
The two most common options can be easily explained: it is very hard to set a price point for an update with unknown features.
When voting I was thinking of an update that otherwise will convince me to upgrade to the next model.
Mirrorless is still a new thing and I think Fuji delivered with the start of the X-T1. It seems to be a turning point. They are trying to improve the existing product. Let’s give them a chance.
I don’t see why the full line-up needs to have firmware updates. Higher costs of professional/higher end equipment should have longer term support.
I wouldn’t mind paying a decent amount of money for FW upgrades but that leads to more issues and cost/management structures down the road.
Didn’t pay for that update? Then you can’t upgrade to this one. What about products rushed to market with the intent on later updates? That worries me. I don’t need a Fuji App store or Fuji downloadable content.
No surprise here. It’s been an effective and unique strategy to get product to market as quickly as possible and ensure a foothold in the mirrorless segment … creating plenty of early adopters. Once they’re “in” then the FW upgrades are gradually curtailed and the return to a more conventional strategy occurs.
With Nikon and Canon having both as much as admitted they will soon enter the mirrorless market in a serious way, I predict Fuji (as well as Sony, Panasonic, and Olympus) are going to start feeling the heat of real competition.
Competition is good for everyone, so I hope that Canon and Nikon do enter the market in a serious way. But if the EOSM and Nikon 1 are instructive at all, Fuji has little to worry about from them. I think the EM1, GM5 and new LX100 (in particular) are more credible threats, in spite of the smaller sensor.
I think that’s the point. I doubt the EOSM and Nikon 1 ARE instructive (or indicative) in any way.
I anticipate very serious mirrorless competition from Canon and Nikon, sooner or later.
Given Canon’s market share, they seem to have little incentive. They still probably sell more big plastic DSLRs than many mirrorless manufacturers’ sales combined.
If they were serious, why walk away from the EOSM so abruptly and completely (except in Japan)? Just because the first model was a dog doesn’t mean that we need a third mount. Their DSLRs have such great controls and UI. How did they forget all about that in the EOSM?
And Nikon, in choosing a 1″ sensor for their mirrorless, then pricing it like a DSLR, clearly don’t want to “cannibalize” the former. That’s a mistake, of course. But this is a company who needed a class action suit to address quality control issues with their gear.
Scrapping both of these prior systems would be a Sony-esque F*** You to customers who bought into those mounts. They’re kind of in a no win situation.
Even making the bold step to something new would have many questioning their commitment, given how they treated EOSM and Nikon 1 customers (like the rage of Sony A mount customers now that focus has shifted to FE).
Meanwhile, Fuji resists the distraction of starting a new mount for FF and continues to deliver better cameras and more lenses. If they really are close to a sensor technology breakthrough, that discipline will really pay off.
I’m going by their recent statement/interview at Photokina. Nikon made a similar statement. As soon as either senses that the other is going to get serious about mirrorless, the competition between them will be on … and that will shift the industry for all the other mirrorless manufacturers.
But to some extent, you’re absolutely right, and that’s why neither Canon nor Nikon have gotten serious about mirrorless … to-date.
But even they have to be sensing which way the wind is blowing, and the fact is that Nikon’s DX customers have been slowly bleeding away to mirrorless, primarily Fuji (and to a lesser extent Olympus), because Nikon has refused to update the D300 in many years, nor do they make very many pro level DX lenses (focusing instead on consumer super-zooms for kits).
So perhaps Michael Reichmann’s comment that “if you don’t eat your own young, someone else will” got someone’s attention. 😉
That’s a great quote! 🙂
Photokina is over, but we still have Photo Expo in NYC coming in less than a month and CES in January. Canon was quoted as saying “very soon,” so i hope we see something. They also said they would consider joining M43, which seems very unlikely, and either was a clever misdirect, they’re really flailing around, or maybe really considering it. I think joining M43 would be good for them. It would be differentiated enough from FF and would relieve the pressure to deliver a big lens roadmap immediately. They could come in as “the big boy” and offer “pro” level lenses for the system and a high end, high margin body to match.
Paying for firmware updates incentivize Fuji not to take any risk in developing new functions and to deliver products that will lose competitiveness over time, which eventually will lead to a drop in sales. Lose-Lose situation.
Free firmware updates incentivize customers to invest in a Fuji system and stick to it despite of (initially) badly implemented features that they should have gotten right in the first place and that the competition gets right (for example auto-ISO, or multi-color for focus-peaking, or video implementation, etc etc…), which gives a second-chance to Fuji when they under-deliver, and support sales on the long-run. Win-Win situation.
Maybe firmware updates are factored in the retail price of the camera…. only Fuji knows. One thing for sure… there’s a few things that distinguish Fujifilm from other
manufacturers and one of them is this so called Kaizen approach in
releasing firmware. Patrick seems quite keen on promoting a so called rumor that this stuff is expensive and increasingly difficult to support … I say its a trial balloon to test owner reaction. We pay up front for ALL the functionality of a given camera planned in its life cycle and Kaizen just dolls it out a bit at a time… most of it comes with the initial purchase and the rest in subsequent firmware updates over time. Sure the marketing and sales folks have to walk a tight wire to minimize deferred sales of new camera models but I believe the real cost of Kaizen does not justify getting users to pay upgrade fees.
It’s not only Fuji. Canon released an update for its 7D years after the product release, which added new functionalities and significantly improved already existing ones.
Fuji could sort this by getting rid of the x-m, x-a and even x00 lines and making an affordable equivalent to the Leica M edition 60 (with ISO dial in place of LCD) this would provide a model with no use for firmware updates (and a significant increase in battery life)…please.
What I’ve been fearing for a while now…there is a serious flaw in the X-series and their firmware concept. The X-E2 was released two years after the X-Pro1. No doubt the support for newly released lenses will stop somewhere – each release required an individual update of the camera bodies – we can expect you can’t use them on an X-Pro1 or X-E1 without likely focusing and precision issues. “Sorry, dear client, no problem, just go the shop and purchase a new camera” — seems to be the message that is silently coming to us. Take in account that all major existing camera systems are able to mount glass that is several decades old. Will we be able to keep on the same strategy in the Fuji world…? The X-series are hyper-computerized, is a kind of distributed control system, each part of it including the lenses requires an operating system and software. It proofs how difficult it is to develop such a new product line bottom up, the first generations will suffer from issues (Fuji tried to cover that with kaizen as a ‘popular’ strategy, fix this issues and pack it with some new features) BUT next generations will stay in the cold to reuse stuff they purchased today. I think that an important benchmark will be crossed when Fuji starts using new sensors, it will be harder and harder to keep on the support for older cameras, even the present X-T1 will suffer from that over 2-3 years. Regarding investment I keep on repeating that the total cost of ownership of a premium MLIC biosystem exceeds a Pro-gear FF-investment by far looking at the long term. On the practical side, with my other camera stuff, I would get sick if I couldn’t use some of the lenses with a particular optical signature I’ve purchased twenty years ago. But the MLIC-manufacturers (not only Fuji) just doesn’t seem to care – oh, yes, it’s the computer age now, buy, buy & rebuy seems to be the message!
Well, I do own X-E1 and come on, it is not 5 or 10 years old hardware. After all the talk about firmware improvements by Fuji (and firware update for the original X100), i would expect there will be firmware updates for features not dependant on actual camera hardware. Features like color selection for focus peaking, ability to delete zoomed picture, direct access to focus point selection…should be pretty easy to implement if the firmware code base is not a complete mess. Sadly, after the first update bringing new features, only the newer lens compatibility is maintained…
And yes. i am aware i have decided to buy a product with a given set of features, but these are features that should be there from beginning and are really common on other platforms and i was just expecting that firmware update just wont stop suddenly.
Same as with drug dealers, the first one is always free and now that you’re hooked, pay! I actually am one of those retards that bought a Fuji camera in great part because of Kaizen, it made my money spending much more safe in my eyes as I was buying something from a company that cares and make sure I get the most out of my investment.
Should have seen this comming.
What, 170+ comments and counting?!…
http://images.sodahead.com/profiles/0/0/0/5/1/6/6/3/9/I-Sense-Butthurt-75000244666.jpeg
At Photokina 09.2014, some FujiFilm representatives said something like:
“We feel that it is a very good thing for our brand to be identified as the company who cares and the company who will give you a new camera six months from now without buying a new camera, so that’s really important to us and that’s really ingrained in what we call the DNA of X-series, our culture of constant improvement, and not necessarily saying you have to go buy a new camera to get this new feature.”
What about this statement?
That’s why the X-E2 will get a nice update soon, 12 months after its launch. I think this “photokina statement” is still valid. But maybe Fuji won’t introduce major features to cameras that are 36 months old.
It is a very polite wrapper around a sensitive subject. The design of any piece of equipment is not a kind of iterative exercise, as Fuji likes to do. The rule in industry is to design concepts first time right, with a well balanced feature set comprising everything we need as a photographer and stable as a rock.Make your firmware management so that only in a very exceptional case an update is required as the hassle to do so is in most cases only disturbing a large crowd of owners. Most of all the professional ones, on location. I fully agree with EJPB that what Fuji has been doing the last two years under that overhyped Kaizen wafer – in particular with the X-Pro1 – was a intelligent approach of re-packaging a complete disaster control. The X-Pro1 had left the R&D dept as merely a prototype and was on the shelfs at least 6 months too early. Most features (with exception of focus peaking all major competition had already on board from day one) were quite complicated and not so much improving the camera. With the X-E2 and X-T1, Fuji achieved the status the X-Pro1 should have been at its launch. And now… kaizen is over. It will be like any other brand, even more, since Fuji is only a small player and likely not even having the resources to keep up such a massive upgrade plan.
Since when is the X-E2 old? That’s bullsh!t excuse. The X-E2 was their flagship camera until the launch of the X-T1 so it’s currently their second flagship camera, and yet “too old and too expensive” to get any love from Fuji?
Kaisen is dead, I have been saying that for a year; today I am proved correct.
RIP Fuji, hello Nikon.
What is the life cycle of a car, computer, phone or camera. Customers have a reasonable expectation of firmware improvements during that life cycle, but not an unreasonable one. I expect patches to my computer/tablet/phone and some OS revisions. In cars, I just want them to work and any recalls be addressed properly.
In cameras, it’s a bit different. Firmware was not intended to bring a lot of new features, but improve the ones that are specified. Sometime we get improvements like the Canon 7D change. Fuji is trying very hard to establish X-brand and I think they are being sincere to keep the bodies competitive.
Kaizen is still a good philosophy. Fujifilm is wise to follow Toyota’s lead in this area.
So the love affair begins to end.
I’m not spending on other systems right now. I own Nikon Sony and Panasonic gear along with Fuji. I’ve recently devoted my budget for new purchases partly (a big part) because of the Fuji philosophy.
I was unwilling at first to commit to Fuji kit because Fuji dumped the DSLR line but their new approach seemed true and refreshing as a company policy. Now it looks like being revealed as a shameless marketing and product development ploy. Same old, same old.
I can quite understand really old models not getting new stuff but Fuji made a heavy load for themselves by the adoption of camera based lens firmware which needs update anyway. I remember when Canon screwed the user base with the change to EOS mount.
Ah well, I’ll wait and see if this proves a true rumor and will then take action if so. In the mean time my first action from now is to not buy anymore Fuji kit and wait and see.
There are always alternatives and other companies to spend my cash on. I am not a ‘acolyte’ of any company but I do like to buy into consumer friendly companies that meet my needs and expectations. I’m sure other companies will step up if Fuji strikes out.
Why not open source the firmware for older cameras too costly to support? A community might grow to add secondary value to these wonderful machines which really shouldn’t have expiration dates, eh?
And Fuji keeps on alienating more and more customers. I made the right decisions not investing into the X-E2, the X-T1, and newer lens. Owning 2 X-E1’s and 6 Fuji X lenses, I am not wasting another dime on them. I had a Sony SLT-57 which was released almost 2 years prior to the X-E1’s release that performed flawlessly and had every feature worked out of the gate. My X-E1 cost almost twice as much as the SLT-57 and I am still waiting on them to give color focus peaking. X-E2 and X-T1 owners are still waiting on them a year later to fix issues, namely magenta cast, red color shift, and that horrible-looking waxy skin rendering. And they want us to buy new cameras or nickle and dime their customers on these FW that supposedly fix these issues. Thanks but no thanks. I am not investing further into these under-performing cams at premium prices. Buy a Sony. It’s much cheaper and they have pretty much everything that work.
I fully agree. As I wrote below, no manufacturer has benefit to develop a system that requires a massive firmware management, including the push of firmware updates down to older models. If Fuji had to do so, there has been a reason for that and we can pretty sure it was not because they loved us so much. In the first weeks after the X-Pro”s release, I’ve also written very angry mails to a few Fuji people I knew, I was for sure not the only one that was deeply disappointed in the performance & AF-problems. Your remark ‘under-performing cams at premium prices’… I bought my X-Pro1 for 1700€, now it’s available below 850€. In two years and some months time. On the second hands market, Fuji bodies & glass are extremely cheap. The market dictates Fuji what is the price & overall appreciation of models and gear, not vice versa or they go bankrupt. The initial hyping is part of game, necessary to boost the sales in a short slot after that it’s a steep decline. Look at Leica, even Nikon or Canon, some models are on the second hands market for the same price they were sold a year ago! Incredible but true.
I own a X-E1. Switched from Sony to Fuji Because of the crapy Customer Support! I fell more and more in Love with the superb lenses and the kaizen philosophy!!! Wanted to Switch to a more recent Camera with better autofocus but fuji kept on releasing cameras with only a 1/4000 shutter!!! Thats One of the Most anoying Problems for me cause i have the 23 35 and 56 xf lenses and realy Love em!!! But cant shoot them wide Open in bright sunlight!!! After the X-T1 with Electronic shutter and 1/32000 i thought “yeah fuji thats a good Start”! After the rumors that the X-E2 will Profit from that via fw Update i thought “if they do it i will buy One the next Day After the fw is out”! But now it Looks like i have to wait for the X-E3 or X-E4 or… Well at least Till they Release a rangefinder style Camera with at least 1/8000… Sorry fuji i will keep my Money a while longer…!!!
If all you need 1/8000 for is to use your fast lenses wide open in bright sunlight, then I’d suggest that you get ND filters and save your money.
Fuji should focus on the X100-series and the X-T series. Those cameras have proven to be game changers while at the same time being commercially successful. The other cameras quite frankly not so much… Endlessly releasing FW updates for these cameras would tie up (financial and people) resources that could better be used to innovate.
Hi.
First, I’ve not read all the comments, so sorry if repeating something.
Second, kaizen is the Japanese name for a general business / manufacture approach where problems (of any sort) or possibilities for improvement (of any sort) are identified at local level and small refinements are made at this local level – at all steps / stages of manufacture, distribution, etc. It’s common to many corporations and not specific to only a few. It’s not a philosophy that gets applied to only one aspect of a single product range, and it certainly doesn’t mean to keep improving a product.
Second, I may be wrong, but I’m not aware Fujifilm ever stated they specifically follow a kaizen approach (and referencing the above paragraph, if they do, it will be in relation to absolutely everything, and not limited to only firmware).
Thirdly, this notion (that Fujiflim firmware updates are something called kaizen) seems to have become widespread after someone (um, me) speculated in a blog about whether or not the idea of kaizen could be a useful framework with which to attempt to understand or interpret what Fujifilm was doing with it’s frequent firmware updates (and nothing more). In effect, offering a possible alternate to the then common view that Fujifilm’s firmware updates in of themselves where some kind of proof of incomplete or unfinished products.
Now, reading here and elsewhere I see rampant outrage at the idea that Fujifilm has a abandoned users / kaizen / whatever. Examining this, again within the framework of kaizen (regardless of whether or not this is what is actually happening), one could say giving up on firmware updates of older models may actually be kaizen in action. A problem or area for improvement has been identified (for the company – not the product), and then a solution or refinement acted upon.
Lastly, if you have the resources to be switching back and forth betwen makers for entire camera systems, then I’d suggest you don’t really have all that much to complain about.
Peace, and all that.
Dean
I own one Fuji Camera (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fujifilm_FinePix_Real_3D). If they ever make a W4 I’ll likely get one. I am also open to whatever else they offer due to the quality of that one purchase, AND that it has recently received a FW Update (after being a few years old).
I was pleased and surprised. It is sort of a cross between getting a new Camera and getting the one you should have bought; but it is tough to foresee every possible Bug and incorporate every possible Feature into a limited Memory space.
It costs a lot (for Mfgs.) to keep the old Source Code around, and the Hardware Platforms to debug upon (which may be a dozen years old). It is great that Mfgs. do offer Updates but fixing Bugs ought to be for free.
While they are there, if there is room, tossing in a few extra Features to offer the loyal Customer a free Bonus is always a nice thing to do (and keeps Customers).
The ability to get Updates was a factor (for me) in deciding upon which Computer to buy, and which Cellphone, even which Router.
Updates are great but they usually fix Bugs or provide Features that ought to have been offered in the first place (but were left out due to one thing or another).
I’m pretty sure that having to pay anything for them will rub Consumers the wrong way and they would be happier to accept that after a few years they may not get Update (not a good situation).
It is a cost that Mfgs. must eat. They (hopefully) are obligated make it up (for the faults) to you (in the ‘good years’) with free Updates (that you download from their Site and install yourself).
i agree with rob c . some of these updates should have been on x series cameras when launched. why should we pay for fw updates like focus peeking on my xe1.
x100s: Classic chrome film simulation and another customizable button for quick iso adjustment would be groundbreaking for the camera.