FujiRumors testing AF-speed on 35mmF1.4
Consider that this lens already survived several minutes under water (when I broke my X-E2) – and it still works 😉
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So how is that new Firmware ver. 4.0? Well, I can understand the enthusiastic FXF feedback of fellow X-shooter.
Yesterday I’ve tested the 55-200 at the ice rink. Extremely difficult conditions (indoors with bad light conditions, lots of ice-skater, many contrast elements like banners and lines under the ice). I had to use higher ISO in order to keep an acceptable shutter speed. So I’d say a good situation to challenge AF.
Consider: I’m not a Pro (Sport) Photographer. I’m sure many of you will get much better results than mine, with my humble skills… and I tell you, following crazy jumping ice-skaters zoomed all the way in @200 is a real challenge for me!
Zone AF Mode: Initial impression: A real pleasure to use. Tracks very good and smoothly. Due the really unpredictable movements of the ice-skaters, they often went out of my focus area… as soon as I placed them again in the focus area, the camera starts tracking again. I really loved it. I tell you, taking shots of your kids playing soccer with the 55-200? Much easier in future, although not 100% of the shots will be always in focus… at least I wasn’t able, with my limited skills in that particular situation (I never shoot sports). I’ll do more testings… Anyway, a highly appreciated improvement.
Wide Tracking AF: Wide Tracking AF had some problems on the ice rink, due to the many distracting elements (and my amateurish skills). It worked better when zoomed in all the way @200, isolating the subject as much as possible. Nice to have.
The coach of the ice-skaters allowed me to take some pictures to test the FW, but not to share images. All I can do is to share a short video fragment (at the bottom of this post) showing the zone tracking. I had to black out some parts of the video, so take it more as a proof that I did my homework, rather than really showing what the firmware is capable of.
But luckily there is Rico’s FW 4 AF test. See the samples and make up your own mind.
The AF speed has been improved, too. I’m pretty busy at the moment, so I can not dedicate all the time I’d like to test the Firmware. I did a short video showing the AF speed on the 35mm here (consider that this lens already survived several minutes under water (when I broke my X-E2)… anyway, my 35mm has become faster).
There are other X-shooters who are testing the new BETA firmware on all imaginable lenses. Read all the feedback here. Here just some of them:
– rollypolly: It turned my formerly pokey Zeiss 50mm macro into a speed demon – Here are the ranges for the various shutter modes in the T setting: ES – 1″ to 1/32000 – MS – 30″ to 1/4000 – ES+MS – 30″ to 1/32000
– bashar: “Zeiss 32mm is now hunted by a speed demon! ”
– gavingoh7: Focus finally can said.. Awesome
– felipey: Tested it with the tracking with AF-C on the 50-140mm and it’s much improved. I had trouble locking focus before but now it works as it should have. Overall focusing is much better. I also love using the command dial to change the shutter speed across all ranges in T mode, it’s very nifty.
As you know, the Fuji X-T10 (which is now in stock at AmazonUS, BHphoto and Adorama), has the same AF-system. A video on youtube shows, how if focuses with XF 60mm (the probably slowest focussing lens in the Fujinon line-up). The tester says that the improvement is “massive“.
45 Responses
Any feedback on low light performance?
My initial impression was favorable with the 35F1.4. I was able to lock on pretty darn fast in a very dim room. Very little hunting which was prevalent before.
I read a few reports on the Forum about people saying their lenses were more consistent in dark rooms than before, but it could be the same new “snappiness” that is shown in the bright light of the first video.
The update should make focus possible/faster only for the PDAF focus points near the center of the frame, but within that context there should be many dim-light situations where it works better now. Probably something that will be hard to prove/notice but helpful in the long run.
anything for the x100T ?
NO.
Now go and use what you already have. ^.^
Fujifilm RAW file converter with Film Simulation support is now compatible with all X series cameras
http://www.fujifilm.com/news/n150518_03.html
Last time I checked, color rendering is still different from in-cam conversion.
Like I said on the forums a month ago, every older lens is as fast with the X-T10/T1 4.0 as the newer lenses are with the T1 3.0. The newer lenses don’t seem to have sped up at all. The 60mm is still slower than the others, but it’s not slow enough to be a problem now. The only lens I didn’t test out was the 90mm.
Not true on my camera. I don’t know what the heck you’re doing, but it doesn’t sound as if you’re using your camera and lenses to their optimum. I would like to see your test, settings, target, and lighting.
I don’t know how you managed to jump from “stuff is faster now” to “you’re not using them properly”, but that’s quite an impressive leap and I’d love for you to explain your reasoning.
My “test” was “being the first person in the country to use the bloody thing”, my settings were “however Fuji had it set up, probably the defaults”, my target was “whatever was in the room” and my lighting was “a normal room” because, believe it or not, most people do not use their cameras to photograph test patterns.
X-E2 please 😀
Yes! X-E2 firmware update PLEASE.
there will be one, around november time; content unkown
No firmware for you.
Hi,
Can someone please explain to me what’s the improvement with Zone tracking?
In firmware 3 (or older), it is said that “when the camera is set to AF-C and CH, the camera uses the 9 phase detect points to track a subject.”
When I read about firmware 4.0’s zone tracking, it looks pretty much the same to me. The only difference I see is that the camera shows the focus points in real time.
So is there really a difference in Zone tracking performance?
Btw, I tried firmware 4 yesterday with my 50-140 for some sports and I didn’t get more pics in focus than with firmware 3.11. Often, the camera decides to focus on the background, sometimes on the player even though the player is exactly at the center of the zone. I’m using the 5×3 zone.
It could very well be my inexperience 🙁 I’m just starting out with some sports and I know mirrorless isn’t ideal for sports.
Thanks in advance for any clarification!
I think it’s awesome Fuji stands behind their products. I wish I could give them my business. I’ve been watching since the release of the X-E2 waiting for them to fix video quality. I have the budget to go with whatever system I want, and I wanted Fuji. I ended up placing a pre-order for the A7rII last evening though. Congrats to all you stills shooters on this update- it looks very nice.
Have fun with your A7rII!! I almost ordered it but my budget didn’t allow for it so I went with the X-T1 instead.
I love my Fuji and it’s the best camera I’ve had so far but the Sony looks like a really really nice camera!
Good choice you made!
Thank you for your generous congrats to Fuji 🙂 It really is a shame that they haven’t worked out video yet and that for some people it’s a dealbreaker. The system’s business (i.e. their profitable high end lenses) would be much better off if video wasn’t essentially off the table.
FUJI PLEASE READ THIS: Please, please include this lovely new AF in a firmware update for my beautiful X100T. THANK YOU!
I’m pretty new to mirrorless as I actually have a Nikon DSLR. I was planning to change my DSLR in the coming months, and I started to look at mirrorless systems, specially to Fuji.
With this firmware, it seems to be a good improvement. However, it’s still a step below a DSLR.
With the upcoming new generation (X-Pro2, X-T2), do you think Fuji would be able to improve even more the AF?
Having PDAF points across the full sensor will make a big difference in some cases and is definitely possible whenever the next generation of Fuji sensors comes out.
Aside from that I’d expect they will continue to refine the new algorithms used for Zone/Wide tracking AF, just like Canon has done over the years with their high-end AF systems on the 1D line.
Their 5D and 7D line as well these days.
Yes certainly, though Canon does have an annoying habit of holding back basic updates to the AF system from entry-level DSLRs. I’m definitely happy that Fuji is instead choosing to make a single software platform that applies to both their flagship X-T1 and their cheaper X-T10. The 6D certainly doesn’t get the same treatment as the 1D.
VERY TRUE. Unfortunately, the 6D has old 9pt system that can’t be significantly upgraded with firmware. Most AF improvements with Canon tend to be hardware related.
You’re absolutely correct about firmware from Canon and thank goodness someone like Magic Lantern is out there.
Same issue applies with NIkon. The D4s autofocusing module significantly outperforms the one in, say, the Df or D5100, for example.
But, we have to face it: nothing beats a pro DSLR for overall performance in the widest variety of situations. When you have NO idea what to expect, it’s the first tool that gets thrown in the bag.
On the other hand, if you DO know what to expect, then it’s a horses for courses pick & choose type thing.
The bodies themselves can only do so much. Focus speed has just as much to do with the lenses themselves, and Fuji’s lenses are not built to move quickly. In order to get any faster they’re going to have to make some lenses with proper, fully geared focusing systems and they may also need to consider dropping some glass, which will reduce image quality but generally speeds up focusing.
Right now, Fuji’s lenses are a mixture of entirely focus-by-wire and semi-geared (if I remember the 50-140 correctly), and they’ve got a lot of glass in them which is great for wide-open image quality but not so great when it comes to moving those elements around.
So, AF on Fuji cameras definitely can get a little faster and there are still improvements that can be made to the bodies, but if you’re looking for something to match a DSLR shot-for-shot at the very fastest speeds, Fuji will need all-new lenses to do that.
The lenses aren’t so much the problem. The major issue resides with the fact that DSLRs use a separate, dedicated focus module (e.g. Nikon’s Multi-CAM 3500FX in the D4) whose sole purpose is to handle focusing duties and nothing else. When focusing is handled by the sensor, it bogs down the whole process (of course, it also offers advantages, such as mitigating back-focusing issues, etc — everything’s a trade-off).
That’s an additional problem, but the lenses are the main problem. Focus-by-wire is fundamentally, physically limiting. In the same way a wireless signal can never be quite as fast and as strong as a wired connection and a crop sensor can never gather quite as much light as a larger one, the design of Fuji’s current lenses physically limits the speed with which they can focus. There’s always going to be that additional lag. The amount of glass in them only contributes to this further.
Even older digital cameras, with slower chips handling focusing, will focus faster than Fuji’s new cameras if you pair the old body with an efficient, fully geared lens. The old Canon 5D, for example, is many years behind any Fuji body and it has a generally poor focus system, but in terms of sheer speed, if you stick a 50mm f/1.4 or 100mm f/2 on it, you still get focus times ahead of anything Fuji can manage now or will manage in the near future. Conversely, if you put the 85mm f/1.2 on any body—even a 1D X or 7D2, which have far more power behind their AF systems than any mirrorless camera can hope to dream of—you’ll find the focus is just as slow as the worst mirrorless lenses, because it’s simply so much glass and focus-by-wire.
I did not say and am not saying that Fuji’s bodies can’t be improved and that the AF won’t get better with that improvement, but the core, fundamental problem is with the lens designs. When they quote AF speeds, they use the 14mm f/2.8 because that’s moving the least glass and has the largest depth of field. Fuji did not design any of their current lenses with speed in mind.
Thanks guys for your answers.
I’m not a sport shooter; mainly landscapes, nature, and people. Focus speed is not an issue for those kind of photography. But I also shoot wildlife such as birds in flight. So I’m looking forward for the Fuji 100-400 and next sensor generation. I guess Fuji would priorize focus speed with such a zoom, comparatively to their current lineup. I’m an amateur so I don’t want to keep two systems (mirrorless/DSLR). So my dream would be a X-T2 with new 24mp… This could be a very lightweight street photography kit, 24mp would be great for lanscapes prints. But if I want to shoot birds, I could put the 100-400 on it.
For sure I will follow FujiRumors for the next couple of months. Mirrorless are to become more and more exciting.
Honestly, considering the price of 100-400 zooms, it actually will be no more expensive—and in fact will probably be cheaper—to buy a DSLR body and a good prime lens for wildlife, than buying a 100-400 lens and hoping the next Fuji offers faster speed. Especially for wildlife shooting, the burst rate, write speed, buffer and battery life of a DSLR are huge advantages over what mirrorless technology can offer. A second hand Canon 7D and 400mm f/5.6L is as good as you can get for flying birds without spending five-figures and together cost about half what a 100-400 zoom lens costs by itself. A fast DSLR body like that and a straight-forward prime gives you more speed, longer bursts, less weight, lower cost and better image quality than any longer zoom lens, let alone a long zoom lens on a mirrorless body.
Don’t get me wrong, I like my Fujis a lot, but wildlife is the one area where I leave them at home and still take out a DSLR. In another two hardware generations, mirrorless may match DSLR in terms of wildlife shooting. If they also get a good, long and fast prime out, then maybe it’ll be worth taking a Fuji over a DSLR. As it is right now, and for the next hardware generation, there is simply no way for mirrorless to compete when it comes to wildlife. The technology simply isn’t there; give it five years, then we’ll see.
It’s not that they are utterly incapable of getting it done, but DSLR will do it better, easier and cheaper, for the current hardware as well as the next generation. Having both systems, one for street and one for wildlife, will actually be cheaper than trying to make one system do both, and you’ll get better results, too. Having two systems is actually an amateur’s best option.
How do you think Nikon’s G Series lenses focus (as opposed to the older D-series, for example)?
I don’t touch Nikon, so I have no frame of reference for them and can’t comment or speculate on how they work.
Cool. Just loaded it on my Xt1. Having said that, I cannot imagine shooting certain sports seriously with an EVF. I shoot NHL professionally and tried it out last season and while the focus was decent at times, it really had to do with EVF lag. Following your subject in lower light with quick movements was incredibly difficult with my Xt1. While I am not saying it can’t be done, this is an area where DSLRs still are the tool of choice. Can’t wait to try it out though. Heading on vacation for a week and plan to give it some real use.
the X-PRO2 will sort out also this problem, thanks to the HVF 😉
It’ll be funny watching sports shooters with “rangefinders” and huge 400mm F2.8 lenses attached. 😉
Yeah, for ultra long lenses the HVF will of course not help.
Was it really the EVF lag that was making the system not work for you Andrew? To me the focus speed (with long lenses) and SHUTTER lag always feel much more detrimental to timed shots than the EVF.
Little of everything. Mostly the players jittering across the EVF that was problematic with follow focusing. But yes focus speed at that time too.
I tried just briefly the X-T10 in Yodobashi. It felt way better (more clearance in the shutter button in particular) and zone focusing. Even in the pretty bright interior of Yodobashi, the EVF stuttered and lagged, falling easily into 14-20fps under bright flourescents. I can only imagine trying to track ice hockey, which is even less bright.
The single biggest problem with EVFs is that they rely on the processor 100% for the output image and that will never be as fast as naked glass.
Otherwise, the X-T10 and 50-140/f2,8 was great.
damn, I sometimes forget that we have those giant lenses also for Fuji mirrorless cameras now (or will have soon)
Please let us know when a F2.8 300mm+ is available! 😉
For fun, I have put my supertele primes on the Fuji with an adaptor with good results. Albeit, manual focusing.
Sorry, but I see zero difference with the XF35mm f/1.4 in that top video. Now if it can do that in low light, that would definitely show some improvement.
yes, I agree..too. I don’t see (yet) any differences with previous version .
How about the lower cameras? I.e. the xm1? Is the AF of those cameras going to be improved somehow? I tried the 55-200 on it few days ago in the store (relatively dark, but certainly not as dark as a bar or a restaurant or a house in evening time) by changing subject after each pic, withouth reviewing the pic, and despite the confirmation sound when I went through the pics I saw that the camera could focus properly only 50% of the targets, which is definitively so-so. News about that?
I don’t think there will be any firmware update for the X-M1. It’s sad. It’s a fine backup cam next to my X-T1. And a pocketable cam with the 27mm pancake on it.
Dear Pedro,
Stop begging, the answer is “NO”.
Thank you for buying Fuji ^.^