In the last weeks I’ve shared 2 rumors regarding the X-PRO1 successor:
- an anonymous source said that no X-Pro1s is on the horizon… all R&D [research and development] is being placed into Fujifilm X-Pro2 for 2015
- a new source said that the Fujifilm X-PRO2 will feature a FF sensor
The trusted source could NOT confirm that the X-PRO2 will feature an FF sensor, but said that there won’t be an X-PRO1S. Fuji will focus on the X-PRO2.
That’s it for now, and stay tuned!
Full Frame or not? That is the question. The FR-community seems to be divided. Here are some of the most liked comments from the last X-PRO2 rumor.
- “I wait for the organic apsc size sensor, not any FF!!!!!!” (Ali)
- “I suspect the main money maker will be the APSC lines, but the new FF line will increase market awareness and put Fuji well and truly in the Pro field as well. It is a totally logical business move. All the other big players have APSC and FF lines, so why should fuji exclude a certain user segment.” Allweather
- “If this decision is true, it is a bad decision. Fujifilm does not have the money and engineering resources to develop a FF mirrorless system from scratch AND continue to develop it’s APS-C X system.” jg
- “My only problem with this will be the size! the body will be bigger, lenses will be bigger and heavier, and everything will make you think why did you leave your SLR in the first place?!” Nour El Refai
- “Especially with A7/A7r are already in the market and received positive feedback, it’s time for fuji to seriously consider the FF before it’s too late. A fuji x FF with in-body stabilization is a dream camera for me :).” Wilson
- “IMHO this would be great. I believe that for many (myself included) FF is the only thing holding them back from finally ditching the DSLR and going all Fuji. Also, I don’t completely understand the people who think that Fuji would some how forget APS-C if they made a FF camera. All the lenses and many different camera bodies would still be there, so people who want to stick with APS-C can do so. It’s not like the FF would take something away from APS-C (maybe just some resources from development department).” Jukka Saarikko
- “Hopefully this is just a lame rumor. APS-C X-Trans Organic sensor please, weather sealing, updated viewfinder, better AF, MF usability with OVF needed.” Austin
- “Patrick, when exactly did you receive these rumor submissions? On April 1st?” Trenton Talbot 🙂
So, which group do you belong to? Full Frame or not? Here is the poll.
[poll id=”47″]
117 Responses
Fuji is doing great with the aps-c line (sensor+lenses). They should stick to aps-c and add an organic sensor that will offer ff detail.
Going ff and building a new system from scratch will be a mistake imo beacause Fuji needs good sales and profit with the current line. It’s like waging war on multiple fronts. Fuji is not Canon, Nikon or Sony to have huge amounts of funds.
http://photobyandrei.wordpress.com/
agreed
I think going FF would waste my favorite advantage of the Fujifilm X cameras: that they can be pretty small and light compared to a FF camera with the right XF lenses for that, yet offer FF like quality with lenses like the 56mm for the times you can skimp on space a bit. It’s like two cameras in one, in that sense.
FF, please!
okay, lets look at what Fuji have ACTUALLY said. In only December Kawahara stated “we have no plan to provide a full frame body”. Lately it has been indicated that they plan to “challenge the Full Frame market”. So lets have a think… I know countless Full Frame DSLR shooters have ditched their FF for Fuji’s. A “next generation” APSC, X-Trans (rumoured “organic”?) sensor with a step up in MP that provides exceptional IQ, coupled with lenses that leave you in a daze from their brilliance… I’d say that would challenge the FF market! They already are, so as they have indicated that the next X-Pro will be a next generation camera, I’d say they don’t need to go FF to challenge. I certainly haven’t missed lugging around FF equipment!
I totally agree! No need to be FF to be an exceptional sensor and a great pro camera. I ditched my FF DSLR to get a X-Pro1 over a year ago and I wouldn’t go back. The worst type of comments I see here is the people that don’t even seem to have a Fuji X camera and request a FF sensor in order to buy one. They clearly don’t seem to know how great the system already is. The only concern I now have is the time I will have to wait to actually be able to upgrade to a new X-Pro camera. 2015 is far ahead and I really don’t want to buy the X-T1 as I really enjoy the “rangefinder” form factor and the size of the X-Pro1. Why would I need to upgrade? I’d love a faster AF in low light, better EVF, high-iso performances and 24MP and that’s about it.
Sounds like you and I want the same camera! I hope fuji is listening! I’d add proper Lightroom tethered shooting to that for the studio… And yes, it seems that it’s mainly non x owners wanting ff.
Why not skip FF completely and focus on CMOS offerings in medium format? Yes, it would cost more as a system but there’s a chance, we have now (well, soon) 4 players there (phase one, hassy, leica, pentax).
If Fuji could take X-Pro1 as a staring point and merge it with their experience with building MF RF cameras of past years, they could be the company to break that stronghold.
Look at today’s announcement of Pentax 645Z and see what CMOS brings. Pentax is smart to take all bells an whistles from their K-3 APS-C cameras and use them around this new CMOS sensor
Medium format requires much more complicated design of lens and it’s a very small market. even fuji makes one of those I am not sure how many people will want it (size can’t be portable) and can afford it (super expensive lens and body).
“Medium format requires much more complicated design of lens” – not necessarily true, it’s easier to design larger lenses than smaller.
The portability factor, yes, I do understand but theses CMOS sensors are not 645 format, they’re 44x33mm so not that much larger than current FF sensors. This camera doesn’t need to be huge and would be very good alternative to big SLR based systems.
I’m here with genotypewriter, whoever makes MF digital mirror less camera might have an ace up the sleeve.
Almost any of the most liked comments make lot of sense.
More Fuji APSC lightweight innovation, targeting lower and mid price market.
One new FF Camera launched with at least two new zoom lenses.
The body does not have to be bigger (see Sony RX1) and the lenses won’t be significantly heavier if low aperture is NOT the scope (see low price Sony lenses for A mount)
With Fuji’s excellence in sensor technology (competitors are still using the Bayer pixels) and first class higher ISO results in APSC Sensor Size, the Fuji FF will have a natural born advantage. To not make use of this would be a mistake, that is for sure.
Improving the sensors while developing the FF will make a lot of sense, and Sony is of course a leading innovator in sensor technology and a smart competitor when it comes to lightweight design of a FF camera.
I made my choice:
• not buying the Sony A7r with 36 MP that needs heavy and / or very expensive lenses to make a fortune out of the sharpness only at lower ISO.
• waiting for Fuji to innovate whether FF or Sensor (maybe more layers, organic or whatever to improve results
• enjoying the X-E1 with the 2 Kit Zoom Lenses i just bought for an incredible low price 🙂
While i am very much into details about what a camera could deliver, comparing all the specs and test images, checking SAR to keep up with the latest rumors and facts (A7s) I am also reminding myself to just get out and enjoy my camera !
Please, no FF. There is no need for FF. I can live with APS-C. I am one of the many who have transitioned from FF to APS-C x-series. I don’t give a shit about e-penis. I don’t give a fuck about street cred. I do care about having a compact system that delivers within acceptable parameters.
An entire set of new lenses and divestment away from its existing product line is wasteful. Fujifilm cannot sustain a movement towards FF.
If you feel the need for FF, THEN GET A FF CAMERA FFS! There are plenty to choose from.
Well everyone.. Dan has spoken. It is now official. There is no need for FF. everyone who shoots ff and mf can now throw their gear away. Did you hear that Fuji execs? You can not sustain a move towards ff. Dan apparently knows all.
Stay with APS-C….it’s the only thing that makes sense….apart from organic…..FF would just divide the current following, and destroy the main reason for use….excellent image quality balanced with superb portability…
Let Fuji show the world how innovation should look like: a small bodied FF camera. And let the world enjoy it… don’t be greedy, you’re not a child…
Not sure if you’ve heard of it, but there’s are several companies called canon, nikon, sony and leica, and they build FF cameras!
In fact leica is similar to the Xpro 1.
It seems not many people on this forum have heard of other camera companies, which is really surprising seeing that a lot of ‘photographers’ here are just gear heads.
Heaven forbid that people who shoot FF would want to support Fuji with their purchases. You sound like a bully who is afraid .
afraid of FF? I sold my D700 for fuji. What am I afraid of? lol please elaborate.
yup mostly gear heads. starting to think there are only 4-5 here that actually make a living with a camera. Seriously, what enthusiast needs a medium format camera… for anything. To shoot food pics to post on facebook (ha ha ha ha) I’m slightly older and have seen how tech evolves. Anyone here ever use a 1200 baud modem? Given time I would bet an APSC could outshine a FF (more likely push the tech to get more out of FF) The bar will always rise.
I’d be more impressed if they manage to create an APS-C sensor that is comparable to “full frame” in resolution and dynamic range. The organic sensor might make that possible. When they say they will compete with full frame, it doesn’t mean they have to build one.
It’s all about profit and sales. It’s not like in communism when even the poorest East European countries had to demonstrate they are capable of producing everything…
Fuji can produce even an mf or lf mirrorless camera if they want to but it will be successful?
all LF cameras are mirror less 😉
Mirrorless cameras are digital and use interchangeable lenses :-). Otherwise they are not mirrorless (like compacts for example who don’t use interchangeable lenses).
By the way, it’s mirrorless not mirror less 😀
mirrorless cameras are cameras without a mirror -> it’s as simple as that 😉 mirror less is autocorrected version 😛
MILC -> mirrorless interchangeable lens system cameras are cameras which lack mirror box but allow you to change lenses
EVIL -> original concept, electronic viewfinder interchangeable lens system
In your opinion pinhole cameras or daguerreotype ones are also mirrorless…
Technically yes 🙂 mirrorless is just, I believe, marketing term to differentiate them from traditional SLR cameras.
But the idea dates back few years when first CMOS sensors appeared which allowed direct read-out from sensor.
There were some DiY attempts in the early days and it was the first time when community realised that CMOS technology could free us from the reliance on the mirror boxes for focusing and use sensor read-out to EVF for focusing instead – live view.
That would allow for smaller designs, no vibration caused by constant flipping of the mirror up and cost saving (mirror boxes are very expensive and fragile pieces of engineering).
So after building solid lens line…ditch it and start over with FF equivalents? Does that make sense to anyone?
why would they ditch it? i don’t understand where you’re coming from with this notion
I thought more like to ditch all money invested in development of quality APS-C sized lenses. Develop this line of lenses just for 2-3 years of X-Pro1 their flagship model? Then create new flagship with new line of lenses that is shortsighted for me.
be frank and tell me what lenses do you miss in the current and announced future line-up (i can’t think of any other than true 1:1 macro, T/S)
I don’t think I miss something concrete. I just don’t think it’s wise to split user base and support two systems. Actual customers may feel that their system is outdated and won’t have future. And there is always something to offer – different design of same focal lenght -> different results (see Leica has 0.95-1.4-2 variants of same focal lenght and each one have different character, there are people who admire summicrons even there are more expensive summiluxes etc.).
crons are cheaper than luxes 😉 only new 50mm APO cron costs more
oh damn… just re-read your comment, scrap my response
A fast 90mm prime. A better 35mm, and a better, longer macro, maybe even with 1X magnification instead of 0.5X.
interesting, i find my XF35 just about perfect and can really imagine what could be done better, IQ is excellent. 90mm prime, AoF like a 135mm lens on FF? I do understand that need, my preferred portrait AoV is around 90mm on FF.
No it doesn’t my friend. Great point!
Please ditch the Xtran too.
I disagree. Plenty of companies make cameras with Bayer sensors, but the X-trans provides a unique feature for Fuji.
Bayer = Simple solution to simple problem.
XTran = complex solution to simple problem, that creates more problems which are actually worse that the original simple problem.
FF would only make lenses bigger – no need for that. Sony managed to do FF with its small E-mount but gets a loot of trouble in the corners and lenses are still big or slow – I don’t see this is a usable role model for Fujifilm.
Fuji should work on more lenses, AF-speed, sensor technologie (organic) and stay with APS-C.
I’d rather have the X-Pro2 as FF because, in my humble opinion, the X-T1 would hold its market value somewhat better ….:)
I think people who are trashing the fuji FF , are simply just scared. Because the G.A.S would not let them to sit tight and not buy a new camera with lenses which they have to ditch their current gear. And if it was me I would preferred the medium format mirrorless over FF mirrorless. Bigger sensor will always have the magic that the smaller sensor doesn’t have no matter how high tech your APS-C is…
Or, we left FF behind in favour of a more compact system and lenses. If they bring out FF, so be it. As long as it doesn’t bust the company I don’t have a problem with it. Doubt I’d buy it though, I just got rid of all my heavy FF L glass and 5d mkii. No hurry to go back, there just isn’t enough IQ difference to make it worth while, from a business point of view.
Hey not sure if you’ve heard, but there are a few companies making medium format cameras… Maybe instead of talking about what you want to buy so you can shoot, why don’t you actually buy it. Interesting thought hey?
I don’t understand the people wishing against Fuji offering a FF camera. On the Sony forums, people are excited about the potential for a MF Sony. You don’t see whining about bigger sensors being an option.
I don’t understand people who think that no one should want/need FF because they personally don’t want it.
In the next two years, I will upgrade my camera to FF. I will keep that camera and buy lenses for it over the next 5+ years. I hope that it will be a Fuji camera. To all you people against FF, would you rather my (and others like me) money go to Fuji or a competitor?
Because Fuji can do so much more to the XP2, they are only scratching the surface with what they can do with APSC.
Who cares if you buy FF from other brands? Why are you crying so much about FF, stop talking and buy it. Not hard really.
And yes if you buy FF from other brands no one will care because people that have bought into the Fuji system did it for other reasons than hoping Fuji will eventually make a FF camera. Or did you think people who bought APSC lenses were hoping Fuji would make a FF camera in the future? lol.
Omar. I’m not sure what your problem is. I’m crying? People buying into Fuji because they they thought they would go FF? Why did that even cross your mind? This may be the most illogical retort I’ve read in a while. Now I’m starting to understand why its so hard to understand the reasoning of those who are adiminantly against Fuji offering a FF option.
You need to read what I read above again.
Do you think people who are buying Fuji with APSC lenses are doing so in the hope that Fuji will make a FF camera? Of course they’re not.
So why would anyone care if you bought a FF camera from another company? To be honest I really doubt anyone here cares what camera you use.
You know what matters? Photos. Did you know photos are what we use cameras for.
Troll
nice come back. owned.
And I’m trolling because I’m telling you to buy FF? lol
Size (weight and bulk), image quality, controls, viewfinder, and yes, lens lineup were the reason I chose x-mount and X-T1 over a FF A7r and its expensive and poor selection of lenses and Sony-style lack of long-term customer support. If I want a different “look,” I can shoot my Rolleiflex. I see a lot of tourists dragging heavy FF DSLRs around New Orleans in the heat so everybody will think that they are a serious photographer, often with some long slow zoom on a 5D2 trying to do street photography or architecture. A 5D2 is a great camera and has its place, but…. For my money, it is all about quality prime optics. I’d love to see a 85/1.4 or maybe 135/2 X-mount prime. At the same time, if Fuji comes out with FF, great. I don’t really have a need for one, but I’m sure someone will make great art with it. But don’t see the need to tell people they aren’t pros because they don’t need FF to take great photos and satisfy their clients.
I don’t care about X-Pro either way, APS-C or 135, but I wish Fuji would continue to work on its APS-C line instead of messing with 135. Things I would like to see would be RAW files working as well with Adobe as Canon files do, updates to the lenses with the grindy and/or slow motors (XF35 and XF60), and development of a 90mm/1.4-1.8 lens. At least the file compatibility. Oh, and how about finally putting the timer in the drive selections, where it belongs, instead of having to go to the Q menu? That would be especially helpful on the X-T1.
I am more amazed that we have a post on FujiRumors without a hundred affiliate links before the article / in the article and at the end of the article.
I think Fujifilm should release an aps-c X-Pro2 but supply it with an optimised fuji made speed booster with fuji glass. Maybe give an option for Leica and Nikon mounts and focus on making the best possible aps sensor they can. You would then have the option to use your x-mount fuji glass or buy some legacy lenses and gain the full frame look. Imagine how good a speedbooster made by fuji could be especially if it was optimised for their system!!!
1. Based on past performance, I’m not inclined to believe any rumor that is not from a “trusted source”.
2. If Fuji does come out with a full frame X-series camera, it’s not like my X-Pro 1 will suddenly prevent me from making high quality photographs. So relax.
I as well as many others would appreciate it they focused on filling all the X-T1 preorders before they concentrate on the X-Pro2.
Well – manufacturing and product development are two very different areas using different resources that do not compete. Manufacturing one product and at the same time develop the next product is what everybody does…..
On my Nikon D800 I can use APS-C (DX) lenses as the bayonette is the same. But I get 15 mpix files, not 36mpix. That is how compatible it will ever get.
Fuji does need to go FF. Eventually, the two big players will get serious about mirrorless and they will likely go FF to show their seriousness. Fuji needs to have FF, along with Sony to fend off the big 2. Having FF will also attract higher end holdouts to mirrorless. If Sony had not done FF, I would not have sold my DSLR.
Full in depth review for xt1 on dp review. Same old rehash of a nice camera.
Fuji would certainly build a better FF SYSTEM than Sony! Why FF? Higher IQ! lager sensor area = better IQ, that is law of physics (if all else is equal). My budget does not allow for the upcoming Pentax 645 otherwise I would buy that. 🙂
A Fuji APS-C 24mpix would be very nice too. (More pixels = more detail) Having both 16 and 24mpix APS-C files available, the 24 looks better on screen and definitely better printed from A4 (210×297) and larger.
Would be interesting to have an option “No interest in an XPro”
it’s funny how some people salivate from just reading the letters “FF”. I think it highly unlikely Fuji will enter the FF market (in the next 5 years at least).
1. FINANCIALS. Fuji doesn’t have the financial strength of Canon/Sony to battle multiple fronts. It is closer to Nikon. Looking at the last 2 years (2012 and 2013) Canon’s pre-tax income were 343/348 Billion Yen. Nikon’s was 86/61 Billion, and Fuji’s was 89/119 Billion (33% coming from Digital Imaging.) So in the last year Fuji increased while Nikon decreased. Fuji was bleeding money in their digital imaging division until 2010, the year the X100 was released. They found their niche, and the X-series is it. There’s no way Fuji will try to get into another market when they are already fighting (and doing pretty well) against the m43 and Sony. The X-series technically has only been in the market since 2012 (X-Pro1). So I say NO WAY to Fuji trying to get into the FF any time soon.
2. STATUS QUO. Canon will not budge and come down with a decent mirrorless that can compete with the likes of m43 or X-series. Their main bread and butter are their EFS and EF lineup. And until Canon loses lots and lots of market-share in the professional field, they have no need to compete with Fuji. Canon and Nikon will battle it out in the Nature (Nikon>Canon), Wedding (Canon>Nikon), Sports (Nikon/Canon), and Casual (who knows) and put out decent attempts against X-series, but they will not bother with too much R&D against them.
have more but this is probably too long already.
This sounded quite logical… thanks!
Hmm…if the current Fuji glass would still perform as well on a FF sensor camera and it stayed as compact as it currently is, then heck yeah!
If not, well….it would be a bit of a buzz kill.
I dumped Nikon and went Fujifilm… If I wanted FF, I’d have stayed with Nikon.
So I invested 2 grand in lenses and you guys are saying I can’t get a Fuji xpro2 APCs camera! Hey Fuji you got a ways to go in ergonomics when it comes to SLR style bodies, just go pick up a em1. I want a high end rangefinder camera or a better version of the xt1.
Fujifilm never promised a successor
I don’t really care if Fuji decides to release a FF camera and lens line, with the proviso that they continue to keep up with the ASPC line. I came from a Canon 5D3 and L lenses, and I personally don’t think the bulk and shooting experience is even remotely worth it for me. I just don’t want to see the ASPC line orphaned for a system that would have a negative trade off for many users. Putatively, the XPRO-2 would be full frame. I would eventually like to upgrade from my XE-1, and I much prefer the form factor of the XPRO to the XT-1. I think that might be the crux of some people’s issue with another line…it’s not gear acquisition or spite or loss of value, but rather the narrowing of ASPC options.
omg , people are mad 😐 get out and take pictures for the love and stop being stupid 😐
If fuji announce full frame for X-Pro replacement, once again, I can say that I will not invest in any fujinon lens. Because that means when my x-pro1 dies or I want to replace it, there will be no successor compatible with the present X-mount (i.e. aps-c image circle lenses). I have no interest in the X-E or X-T series at the moment.
In a way, that could be the me going full film in 5 years horizon, with Leica M and 645 medium format. Maybe not a bad thing after all. This could just kill my GAS (or at least focus it on film gear).
Not a bad idea to go film MF if you’re prepared to spend some time developing your film and scan it (I do it alongside digital photography).
No point in my opinion to go for 135 format in film once you see MF neg/slide (also have Leica M system – selling it slowly) – no contest and you can’t really print that large, with MF there are more opportunities and gear can be obtained cheaply (I have Hassy V and Mamiya 6 systems) plus it’s easier to chew through 10/12 frames than through 36 – think changing light conditions.
I have a mamiya 645 Pro TL, a Canonet QL17 and an M2. I just love the rangefinder shooting experience. But I have no doubt the mamiya will give me better results. I still have to finish my first roll 🙂
Manual focusing with the leica is however way easier than the split screen of the MF.
First off – Names are stupid. X-Pro Doesn’t mean it’s for pros. It’s the name they gave the first in the series. It’s an X with a hybrid VF. and interchangeable lens. That’s what it means. As far as anyone is concerned the X-T1 is the top of the X (read APS-C) food chain. The next camera, should it be Full Frame will have different lenses, an will be a different system. They would be stupid to name that X also. So the X pro2 should either be APS-C or be called something like the Y-PRO-1 (perhaps F-PRO-1).
Forgetting that the whooooole new line of lenses/camera from fuji are X series… not F, Y or z.
They are not interchangeable really. Sony’s stupid sytem is just confusing, and making a bunch of x’s without FULL compatability just leads to chaos. The xf lenses wont work properly on ff, best to separate totally. Call it something else and do parallel systems.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Fujifilm did something like making a sensor with additional pixels in the center that can be turned on and off so you could use APS-C lenses while getting the same resolution images as with new full frame lenses or something else along those lines. Or new sensor tech that allows for such high pixel density that even crop mode would give you, say, 16 megapixels. Or something entirely different. They are not stupid. If they choose to design a full frame camera to replace an existing APS-C product line, I’m sure they will have a reason to go there that goes beyond “there is a market for it and Sony has one already“.
I’m sure they have got something up their sleeves. If there was a change of plans to abandon an already in-development X-Pro1s, I would assume that there is some new kind of thing they discovered or developed that is quite a bit better than the X-Pro1s would have been and they would like to bring that new technology to market as soon as possible rather than wait another full product cycleready.
I hope that Fuji will create a non hyper-bottonfull camera but, as a can see on the new pseudo reflex they made, I’m afraid that de button mania will stay the Fujy’s signature; with it lot of bad manipulations or mistaked or non volontary set up…
Way too much negative reaction here! I have an X-pro 1 as well as the 18mm, 35mm & 56mm.
I bought this gear to take pictures; NOT because I’m kidding myself it is an investment. An investment is only worth what it sells for and I’m enjoying my Fuji kit too much to contemplate that!
For my needs, a killer combo that travels everywhere with me. The compact, form and handling of this camera are unique and are the reasons I bought it. I like an OVF, many others do too. I have that ‘connection’ only other owners understand, as well as Fuji. Not having FF does not bother me in the slightest, despite using it for years on my now redundant systems.
I believe the X-Pro has a rightful place in the lineup (flagship or not). It will be improved technically to compete on paper and showpiece Fuji’s latest sensor.
What’s to worry?
It is very likely that FF will be introduced, but I guess it would be a secondary line. Fuji are not likely to go back on the principles of their X strategy and loose their sharp edge to competitors.
Zeiss having announced new FF prime lenses (initially for Sony E-mount) is a clear sign that Fuji is also preparing a FF system. Zeiss never would depend on Sony only – think about the “Touits”…!
FF bodies are not much larger then APSC bodies, its only the lenses. Why not build a body with a 24/36 MP FF sensor and purpose build it to accommodate both APSC and FF lenses. APSC lenses with their 1.5 crop spread could use the inner 18/24MP with outer pixels switched off, EVF/OVF calibrated. Then use otter pixels when a FF lens is added. Then everybody who has or wants to use APSC can and invest in a FF lens only when needed.
Nothing new. Nikon F-mount, Canon EF-mount and Sony A- and E-mount already works like that with both APS-C and FF lenses.
You are simply sayng Fujifilm should make a FF camera with X-mount, just like Sony did with their E-mount?
There is however a big flaw in your calculations. The crop-factor must be used for both horizontal and vertical direction to calculate the size the full frame sensor would have with the APS-C crops you envison.
An 18MP APS-C crop therefore need a 18×1.5×1.5=40.5MP FF sensor. 24MP demands a 24×1.5×1.5=54MP FF sensor. Such sensors are not yet available.
36MP FF sensors allow a 16MP APS-C crop while 24MP FF sensors are limited to a 10.66MP APS-C crop.
Canon EF-S (APS-C) lenses cannot be mounted on FF bodies. Well, technically they could but the Mirror will hit the shorter-back focus lens on the EF-S. That’s why the back of an EFS lens has rubber on it, in case a FF body user forgets that fact.
Correct! Some EF-S lenses for Canon should however be possible to modify for use on Canon FF cameras.
APS-C lenses made by Sigma, Tamron, Tokina and Samyang are built to fit also Nikon F-mount and therefore should have no trouble with the mirror on Canon. The latter, Samyang, as far as I know, use the EF mount also on their APS-C lenses and fit without any modification on Canon FF cameras.
FF lenses actually don’t have to be larger than APS-C lenses. If you compare most of Nikon’s FF lenses at equivalent speed/DOF/focal length, you will find that even their newest AFS lenses are roughly the same size as Fujifilm’s APS-C lenses. If Fujifim didn’t have to make equivalent lenses, they might be able to capitalise on smaller lens footprints possible with 50mm as opposed to 35mm and 85mm as opposed to 56mm, and especially on the wide end where the 14 and 23 lenses become massive barrels compared to FF 21mm and 35mm lenses.
and if they could somehow put AF motor in the body (i know, there are minuses with that, but big plus would be smaller lenses) and in body stabilisation, the lenses could be smaller and you could benefit from stabilisation with 3rd party lenses.
I for one would be for that, but AF misfires tend to happen more often in screwdrive AF systems, which is a shame. I very very much wish for small lenses. Today’s APS-C lenses are huge, while Fujifilm’s cameras are traditionally compact. There is a huge disconnect between the design of their cameras and their lenses. The X-Pro 1 looks like a rangefinder camera, but attaches itself to SLR-styled lenses (which are massive).
I hope the X-Pro 2, if FF, can usher in a new design ethos, where compactness and focused utility for a specific user trump the do-all design of current X cameras.
If it has to look like a rangefinder camera, make it act like one. Make shooting it more direct, with smaller lenses that either lack AF systems, or carry body systems to stay small. The camera body need be no larger than the current X-pro 1, which already is larger than the A7r.
Leave fast AF and fast FPS to the X-T1 category and make the X-Pro 1 the landscape and street shooter and model shooter’s camera, focused on being friendly to the outsider and compact. Bring lenses at various speeds, not just 1,4 or 2,0. Compact, mechanical, lasting is what I hope for from a pro.
X-PRO2 FF? At first that doesn’t make sense. Shouldn’t a new FF camera have a new name? Especially as the optical finder which is defining the X-PRO1 camera should be much more obstructed by bigger FF lenses.
But in a way Adam below may be right. Fujifilm can do just like Sony and put FF sensors in X-mount cameras until now using APS-C sensors. The easiest way for Fujifilm is scaling up their current 16MP sensor to a 36MP FF sensor.
The current APS-C lenses will be usable as before. Still with “only” 16MP, but inside a propably much improved camera. A new line of FF lenses can also be used. Some may be compact enough (but therefore also a bit slower, like the Sony 35/2.8) to be usable with the optical finder.
The gain for Fujifilm is that such a camera can have a high selling price considering the price of the Sony A7R. A X-PRO2 with an APS-C sensor could on the other hand be hard to sell at the introduction price of the X-PRO1 as there today are more choices, most notably the X-T1.
“If this decision is true, it is a bad decision. Fujifilm does not
have the money and engineering resources to develop a FF mirrorless
system from scratch AND continue to develop it’s APS-C X system.” jg
I don’t think that Fuji will pull a “Sony” and stop supporting their APS-C cameras just because they have a FF one. With all the Kaizen thing that wouldn’t make any sense and it’s not like we don’t have enough proof that Fuji really tries to improve their cameras and support their customers – BTW, in a way we never ever seen before. Plus, Fuji has a lot of extra money from the P&S division that they shut down, sure, it’s not really the same but I hardly think this logic applies to Fuji.
Plus, it’s hardly from scratch. Fuji already have a system, they already developed tons of tech, they improved a lot of areas, roughly, it’s really just a matter of upscaling things a bit. They already have FF lens designs, they already know how to make a mirrorless system. And the whole idea of having a FF is to put Fuji on the market and that should also help them sell more APS-C cameras.
I think that with the X-T1 there is not a great need of a XPRO2 being APS-C – except the obvious like new sensor and processor. But aside for that, although there are people that like the hybrid VF, they are clearly a minority. I would still prefer Fuji didn’t need a FF system but what the Fuji representative said in an interview is true, they need visibility, not having Canikon with a successful mirrorless system makes people think less of mirrorless cameras. Sony making a splash with the first FF mirrorless gives a momentum and an empty seriousness that unfortunately is necessary to promote mirrorless systems.
So, I understand Fuji’s move and I do think they will keep their support to the already existing system, too bad they didn’t think of FF like Sony did, so they could use the same mount, but the rumor about a longer flange distance is probably so it can be adapted to APS-C X-Cameras. The downside is that the lens will be bigger, the camera will be bigger and that was one of Fuji’s arguments about having a FF but they probably changed mind when they realized that people are more worried about their FF fetish than the size of the system. There are a demand for “smaller than DSLR but bigger than APS-C mirrorless” cameras.
Fuji probably thought “WOW, Sony made a FF mirrorless full of shortcomings and people still love it, we should ride that – but let’s make a better camera”. If Fuji follow their own receipe of making a system, that will be more than enough. Actually, it’s probably Fuji that made Sony realize that they should aim for more serious crowd, except that Sony has basically only $1000 lenses and I hope Fuji keep their optics at a lower price.
I’ve been waiting for the Xpro update. If it is FF then I won’t see an update to the camera I prefer.
The Xpro1 is almost perfect for me, but an update of the AF and EVF would be nice.
The XTrans2 does not excite me much, I DON”T ALWAYS PUT MY SUBJECT IN THE CENTER OF THE FRAME. In fact I rarely do. If they put PDAF on sensor please put it over entire field. And keep the same body and (useable) buttons and controls. And don’t load it down with silly Art filters and amateur features, Don’t want Tilty/flippy touchy screens, GPS, WI-FI, or any of the other junk that makes it more like an iPhone. Keep it a pure shooters camera. You have the EX/XT/XM/XA cameras to lavish HiTecSuperDuperNiftyNeetoGizmos on. I don’t care if Fuji makes a FF system, but PLEASE give us the apsc Xpro update. I don’t need FF, I have MF when I need it. And I prefer M43 for long zooms, etc. Maybe I should just get a couple spare Pro-1 bodies and hope they last as long as I do.
I’d like an APSC sized organic sensor packing XPro2 that would use existing Fuji lenses and deliver medium format (i.e., FF beating) results. It would probably still cost less than the new Leica APSC mystery non-M mount camera. Of course, that organic sensor thing may never come to pass… But allow me this dream….
Cant wait… Options are good and a FF camera made by Fuji would be a welcome addition. Imagine the image quality of a FF Fuji! Add a dual SD slot and 1/8000 shutter speed and we have a new camera built for pro work that could replace our dslr’s!
Agreed! I love my X-Pro 1, but the image quality at base ISO is not as good as my DP Merrill. The only cameras below MF that are comparable are the D800E and A7r. So, unless fuji has the organic sensor, a non X-Trans full frame sensor without an AA filter makes sense.
Personally, I would prefer a Fovean-like APS-C sized sensor, with good high iso performance, over a full frame Bayer sensor, but such a sensor does not exist yet (still very poor high ISO performance). A high resolution full frame sensor without an AA filter is the next best thing, despite the loss in resolution due to interpolation.
A full frame sensor without an AA filter with fast prime fuji glass would be a great combination. If it comes with a fast prime 21mm, 50mm (and/or 35mm), and 85mms at launch, I will likely get it.
“but the image quality at base ISO is not as good as my DP Merrill” – yep, I’m yet to see a camera which beats those little Merrill monsters at base ISO (ok, MF does, but with D800 it wasn’t clear cut, I believe that my DP2M has an edge there)
Yeah, the DP Merrills are pretty amazing, in my opinion. According to my friend who has both a D800E and DP Merrills, the DPM’s have better pixel-level quality than the D800E, but they are comparable because the D800E has 36mps. The DP Merrills are the only digital cameras that I know of that are not subject to loss of resolution and false details due to interpolation. If sensor designers would focus on developing Fovean-like sensors (each pixel is RGB, without the need for interpolation), they would likely be able to improve the high-ISO performance, just like they have over several years with Bayer sensors. If so, they could be the standard, providing pure, rich image quality without false details. If one compares images from a 5d mkiii or d610 at 100% to that from a DP Merrill, the benefits of a Fovean sensor is very evident. Unfortunately, the cameras are slow, have terrible battery performance, and are not good at higher ISOs.
really they want aps because of weight and size
why go midway? why not go 4/3? why not nikon J? they are a bunch of loser. fujifilm follow them if they want bankruptcy . FF all the way.
This will make for a more rational product line. X-PRO for ff. X-T for apsc, and X-E for rf apsc.
As soon as Fuji dips into FF, people will start demanding for medium format, right?
Right! But none of this tiny 645! Digital 6×9 – that’s what
we need!!!!!
No, skip tiny medium format!
We should get right to a Fuji plate camera (X-P1) … it’ll need the sensor to be cahnged for every shot und a mule to carry … but heck, it’ll be teh biggezzt of ’em all!!!!!!!!1111one
Fuji, PLEASE make a FF camera. Then all these “PROs” who “NEED” FF will learn that it won’t magically make them into a better photographer. PLEASE Fuji, make it now. And make it cheap so they all can get one. Of course next year they will sell their entire system for the next latest/greatest thing, but PLEASE Fuji, get on it. I don’t need an updated Xpro with APSC. Sometimes I think I should just fill my freezer up with Tri-x and Portra and call it good.
There is another option for the sensor size – the APS-H
First, when one of the colleagues mentioned about this
I wasn’t sure whether this was the best idea. After all this could be seen as a half-measure. But now I must admit that I was wrong:
Having in mind that current lens could potentially cover the APS-H (hope it is true) we could solve most of ours and Fuji’s problems, in example:
* lens compatibility (this is an issue for the customer but also for a company – after all they also do not have unlimited founds)
* Lens & body weight concerns
* Lens & body size concerns
Regards
Wojciech
I must tell you that this whole “”rumor” thing is getting tired…
Then perhaps you shouldn’t be at a site called “Fuji Rumors”
The XPro 2 will NOT be full frame; any rumors to the contrary are just that. This comes from a source well-placed to know.
Feel free to contact me and tell me more about
Unfortunately, I’m not at liberty to divulge sources, but I can tell you that there are no plans to introduce a full frame camera in the near- or mid-term. Now, down the road a ways (3+ years), who knows…
Oh, you don’t have to tell me who your source is…. just what the source knows about the X-PRO2. My trusted sources still can’t confirm that it will be FF, so that could fit with the information you just shared here.
Again, if you want, we can discuss it via email.
cheers
Patrick
Nothing I can share privately that I cannot share here:
– Expect a body design that is very similar to the current X-Pro, but with beefed-up durability and atmospheric resistance and some switchgear evolution
– Expect a continuation of the hybrid OVF/EVF (but with present generation improvements)
– Expect the technological guts of the latest state-of-the-art Fuji X cameras but with another generation of advancement in certain areas
– Expect an APS-C X-Trans sensor that has been further iterated
– A tilty-flippy screen is possible
– A few features that are brand new, as befits a top-of-the-range Pro spec camera (don’t know yet what those are, though)
interesting. Thanks a lot for sharing… will work on you list now and see if I can find out more details. If you hear something else from your source, you know, I’m all ears 🙂
cheers
If they stick with an X-Trans sensor, they better give us in-camera TIFFS or a raw converter produced by Fuji. As much as I love my X-Pro 1, I will not buy another X-Series camera until we get at least in-camera TIFFS (the ability to convert the raw files to TIFF in-camera) or a raw converter produced by Fuji, as the in-camera raw converter is still the best converter for these files, but is limited to saving as a jpeg. Without that, we will continue to be limited to one compromise or the other.
Come on Fuji…It is in your best interest to provide us with the ability to get the most out of these files. While Capture One is arguably the best external converter for these files, it is not as good as the in-camera converter. But, the in-camera converter limits us to lossy Jpegs.
I rather skip X-T1 and jump on X-Pro2!! Hope my X-E1 will resist the wait.
FF would be great surprise but anyway fuji will be at 0 with lenses, so still fine if X-pro2 comes with APS-C sensor. I tried X-T1 this weekend- nothing to do with fujis retro digital look, but hollow plastic touch feeling. Of course this does not affect at all the performance but I wait for X-Pro2
Perhaps the X-T1 was intended originally to be the X-Pro 1s? Maybe there was a last minute change of direction from Fuji. After all the X-E2 and X-T1 seemed to be launched far too close to each other, and that seemed strange as it would spoil future X-E2 sales (and probably has). Maybe the last minute decision was to keep all future Pro-Series cameras in a separate full-frame market segment? That’s my conspiracy anyway…. 😉
Pete.
After 14mm and 35mm , today i added a 56mm 1.2 to my bag. i wait desparetly for organic sensor apsc size and weather sealed xpro2 or xe3(without optic viewfinder) . i need a camera which has a good dynamic range and and can be used at even -20 celsius and rainy days.( 20 MP would be better 🙂 )
waiting for a Fuji full frame is the only reason why i have still not yet bought a rx1 or a7 or a7r or d610 for that matter.
My wish list for X-Pro2:
– Full Frame sensor, no desire for higher capture resolution (who cares about a little bit more size and weight and different lenses. Why have an X-Pro2 upgrade when you already have an X-T1?)
– Weather sealing
– Some way of more easily manually and auto focusing when using optical viewfinder (rangefinder/leica style?) so you can actually see that you are in focus, rather than trust the green square
– Face recognition for auto focus so when you hand the camera to a tourist standing by to take a picture botching the focus won’t be an issue. PLEASE! THIS WOULD BE AWESOME!
– (If possible) Better battery life, battery monitoring, and processor speed
– The requisite faster auto focusing
For Video features (I like the video because IQ is SO good):
– External microphone jack (please!)
– Less physical resistance on the focusing ring (currently it is difficult to manually focus while shooting video without horribly shaking the camera)
Don’t need full frame, have a dslr (with all it’s weight and bulk) for that… Keep xpro2 small and light
Improve manual focus control… Lenses and camera
Don’t need video on a proper stills camera
Make dials stiffer to turn… too easily changed by accident, same with power switch
Faster AF would be handy