Day after day I am receiving new tidbits of rumors about the Fullframe strategy. And I will soon have more news for those waiting for more NEX-7 and A77 info.
A new source told me one of the prototypes has a 36 megapixel sensor. At first Sony had problems with overheating in 40+C conditions but they managed it to solve them. A trusted source told me that all fullframe camera will have the same tilt-swivel solution you have seen on the A77 picture. Whenever I look at that pic I have to say that it looks like it could break very easily! Hope I am wrong 🙂
And as I already told you there will be more than one fullframe cameras announced in 2012. They will all be Translucent, have built-in GPS and be optimized for video. I have been told that the video quality will be lot better than the [shoplink 6340]Canon 5D markII (Click here to see that cam on Amazon)[/shoplink].
One more thing: I want to thank all the sources for sending me rumors. Please understand that I usually try to doublecheck rumors before to post them And if I can’t than I will publish them with low rumor ranking (SR2 or SR3). But I will keep your (fake) names in mind and if rumors turn out to be true you will automatically become a trusted source 🙂 P.S.: Got some strange rumors about the NEX pro having a curious “mount solution”. If you have some info about that camera drop me a line. Thanks!
85 Responses
Sweet !
But so we can conclude that the A65 will have the exact same tilting LCD as the A77 ? The leaked photo doesn’t completely show the A65 mechanism … maybe Sony is trying to lower the price of the A65 by using a different/cheaper mechanism ?
Yes same!
I can’t really understand why Sony is using this kind of tilt mechanism. Why are they pushing for something that different – and yeah, it looks like it would break easily – why not just use the same mechanism that Panasonic, Canon and Nikon are using?? It’s so much easier to use and it seems a lot more reliable.
This new design allows the LCD to remain perpendicular to the ground while raising and lowering it, which will good for many applications, especially video.
It may be flimsy looking, but we need to see one in really life, if they used good materials, it should be good! I was actually imagining something like this type of hindge…it looks good to me!!
i simply love this screen design from Sony…. always aligned with the lens and sensor… great for quick framing.
Also, I used the articulating screen of a300 for 4 years… and the materials used by Sony there are generally very strong.. felt like metallic hinges….Now, can’t wait for A77 !!
Admin, we need more details on the video bitrate of A77, please.
do you think that it’s possible to the A65 and A77 to be available by mid-september?
No 🙁
one of it is body material
Trying to think how video can be improved. The new FF Sony video cams have enormous pixels which greatly increase saturation and sensitivity. SLR video is hampered in that only relatively few photo sites are used to produce 1920×1080 video, which lowers the signal to noise ratio and can cause banding. So, if the Sony is a traditional chip (not a Foveon) then perhaps they have found a way to clump together photosites so that many can act as a large pixel, and achieve much greater saturation and a higher signal to noise ratio.
This is, of course, just speculation. Anybody out there with more video knowledge care to wade in?
or it could simply mean a better codec 😀
theoreticaly a 36Mpix sensor could use blocks 4×4 to convert 16 sensor pixels into 1 HD video pixal amd still have a little space. A77 sensor could manage 3×3.
I previously predicted a 36 Mpix and about a 50(54 would be FF A77 sensor)
A major problem with FF video is that the depth of field is TOO SMALL for many uses, which is why Sony went with 35 mm in their new cameras (which is very close in size to APSC). The way to increase depth of field is to stop down the aperture, but of course then you need to add lights, which defeats a major purpose of going with a dslr to film (which is to have lighter and more mobile equipment – but adding extensive lighting will undo that intention). Clumped photosites would allow greater sensitivity, and allow stopping down the iris without paying so much a penalty in erecting lighting. Also, the benefit to image quality in brighter conditions would be huge.
May I add that the A77 chip is close to what Sony would consider optimum size in a video? An enhanced pixel setup in that unit would be pretty darn hot!
well the FF sensor, if able of pixel-clumping would allow for flexible settings as it sufficiently covers the super 35 area to.. so it would be possible to allow the user to switch between photo35 and super35 for video 😉 for all the DOF needs that might occur .. but i think Sony being Sony they rather keep options as low as possible to not frighten their video department
Fun to think about – and much better than the minor incremental upgrades that usually happen (esp. with Canikon).
Rob, I don’t get your first sentence.
“With FF the depth of field is smaller”: correct. “TOO SMALL”? – not sure about that …
“Sony went with 35mm in their new cameras, which is very close to APS-C” ? What are you trying to say ?
Sony’s new cameras (A35/A65/A77/…) -> APS-C != 35mm (FF)
35mm != close to APS-C (23.5mm)
he probably meant super 35, which is the film standard and is very close to aps-c — its whats used in the NEX-fs100
“35 mm” in motion picture = 18×24 mm
“35 mm” in still photography = 24×36 mm
I think most serious video users want 23.98P.
Is it worth mentioning that Phase One uses clumping to increase ISO on their medium format camera backs? The technology is out there…
You are wrong.
They want 1fps to 120fps or even more.
24fps is the end result after processing/editing. Serious users want 60 or even 120fps+ to work with.
The most serious wannabee wants 24fps, so their vimeo test shots will have the typical “stuttering” filmic effect on their lousy footage.
Filming at 24fps does not make any wannabe footage look decent.
Good photography/lighting, good camera movement and color grading makes footage look professional, not filming at 24fps.
Just switching a “wheel” on the camera does not make anybody a decent filmmaker.
To say it will do better video than Canon isn’t saying all that much, their video implementation is crude at best. Video people go with Canon for other reasons. Clumping pixels together is called binning. Binning is already done on most cameras but it could be implemented better (Panasonic’s GH series do it the best), right now I suspect many pixels aren’t getting read at all (known as pixel skipping or subsampling) in addition to being binned. Traditionally binning was used to improve low light performance but it inevitably spread to live view then video since the sensor can be scanned at faster rates than if you waited to get a reading from every pixel.
Generating video from Bayer sensor cameras leaves much room for improvement, whether it is from improved binning routines to better control of rolling shutter or better codecs (the current AVCHD standards need to be scrapped or upgraded, cameras like the HX9v are already breaking the standard because it’s too constrictive). Having said that I doubt Sony will make these cameras truly optimized for video – that might cut into the sales of their higher end camcorders. I could be wrong though, especially if they anticipate Canon to roll out something similar next year.
Oh one more thing – it would take around 39mp to generate an image 1920 pixels across if you binned in 4×4 blocks
What about a NEX-5C? Is sony going to make one?
You mean C5?
I think there will be one.
You say all FF models will be translucent, but earlier you said one might have an OVF. OVF+translucent does not compute IMHO.
No, it was a rumor about the future three APS-C cameras! Now I am talking about the future FF cameras!
And I don’t think that you’ll have a future APS-c camera that is SLR.
Admin, if there’s going to be several FF bodies (2-3?) then would the lower spec model would be relatively COMPACT&Similar in size to A77?
This is really vital info, because all of the current FF cameras are just HUGE 🙁
I would say that I want my FF to be “huge”….that would mean lots of custom buttons and a solid grip of the camera….not to mention leverage when used with tele lenses like 70-400 or even 70-200….a900+grip is almost perfect sized…
Feedmatekill, good for you.
I am using 28mm 50mm and 85mm primes, why would i want to have a huge body when my 30 year old Film SLR is 50% the size of even the A77?
The current FF body size is is a joke for me, or for anyone who does not shoot with a 70-600 f0.95 lens.
This is my idea of “PERFECT SIZE”
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3514/4005202131_e16857a13e.jpg
frosti7
I think you used to shoot with Canon (mostly). Are you thinking of adding a Sony camera to your collection?
Also, regarding perfect body size – an individual’s hand size makes a difference, too.
Agree with you Frosti7. I’d love a FF that wasn’t so bulky.
b shaw, sorry but are we acquainted? i used to have m43 set, and before that had canon eos 40D
currently i own only the Zenit 11 (the link above)
Get an M9. 😛
You are quite right – with an SLT & EVF there is no reason for an FF camera to be significantly larger than an APS-C when using the A mount. It’s only really the increased size of the shutter/sensor platform that has to be allowed for and not the larger FF pentaprism for an OVF. Indeed the use of an EVF with a 36MP FF sensor would allow the same camera to perform as a cropped format camera without the viewfinder kludges that are required on an OVF. That would allow for higher frame rates, smaller lenses and smaller files where portability is at a premium whilst still allowing for FF when the circumstances demand it.
A compact FF of this sort would be very interesting.
I wonder if mount solution provides for AF on all Alphamount lenses and, hopefully, also SSS all incorporated into a slightly bigger mirrorless body…together with the option of the 3MP EVF as a bolt on accessory
PLEASE BRING OUT A FULLFRAME NEX, SONY!
+1
ufourtenatly i do not see that sony would be able to develop 4 systems (aps-c nex+slt, and ff+nex+slt)
My only hope is that the next sony FF would be COMPACT (size of A65 or smaller)
A full frame NEX would be ideal.
hope that this rumor will not compromise the strategy of Sony… maybe the competitors will have a heads-up reading this. never the less its nice to know.
Don’t worry about that. They all already have planed their poduct strategy for 2012!
so would the nex lens cover the FF?
or would it just be easier to build a dscV1 size/type and use A mount lens
A9
A93
and then maybe A99
or maybe A9 A99 and A99D (duel grip body )
They have growth room in the mount, but I don’t see it happening in the short term. If using A mount it’s no longer a NEX anyway, of course a very small A mount camera (basically screen-sized as that’s the limit) might have appeal for some people but the a55 et al are already ridiculously small.
So full frame NEX = in the future and probably that means the A mount is dead.
A full frame NEX??? and you are expecting SONY to produce some lens for the FF? They are hardly producing any (useful/good) lens for the APSC!
I don’t need full frame lenses from Sony for a full frame NEX. It is a film back to be used with existing lenses, of which there are plenty.
For use with microscopes or telescopes, you don’t need a camera lens at all.
What is needed is a convenient digital film back giving something near the quality of 6×9 cm film – like the film backs I use with a Sinar, but scaled down for use with 35mm lenses.
Well, sure, but do you actually think Sony would produce such a thing without a native lens line??
thanks for the rumors mr. admin 🙂
“optimized for video” that is full manual controls and minimum 24p with high bitrate?
how about a65/a77 any news there?
Not sure yet about the bitrate. I always told you almost everything about the A77. What I don’t know yet is if the A65 has the same A77 sensor. Let’s see….
Andrea, waiting for a-mount lens news mate. Any info?
hmmm, I got info here nd there but I want to check the info. Do cosnider that the earthquake in Japan also changed the roadmap. So I have to re-check all rumor I got in the past 🙁
Come on… How can this be serious “rumor”. Everybody knows that the scaled up FF sensor would be 2x the APS-C sensor resolution. 16Mp *2 = 36.
It doesn’t take a “trusted source” to tell you that.
Are you SURE an APS-C sensor has exactly twice the area of a FF? Check and report back – do some research for a change.
Uhmm – when I was at school (admittedly a long time ago) 16 x 2 = 32, not 36. The factor you are looking at is 2.25 as that is the area ratio of a 1.5 crop factor APS-C sensot to an FF sensor.
Of course it still makes your point that this would just be an FF sensor with the same photosite pitch as a the 16MP sensor in the A580. However, that’s not an unreasonable starting point for Sony to choose. If it was to be scaled up from the rumoured A77’s 24MP, it would reach a truly massive 54MP, more than double any other FF camera and only exceeded by on MF digital camera.
The problem is that there is a misuse of the names: Original film based APS-C had exactly half the size of “FF” (25.1×16.7 mm) which would give a grop factor of 1.4. However, in the digital world the term “APS-C” is misused for everything smaller then “FF” and bigger than 4/3″: Nikon, Sony, Pentax use the DX format with 1.523 crop factor, commonly called “APS-C”. Canon uses even a crop factor of 1.6 — and everyone refers to as “APS-C”.
Steve is almost right: A FF sensor with same pixel pitch as a DX sensor would give even 56 MPixel. But factor 2 is a good approximation… 😉
Well I was rounding to 1.5. Reading the specs on the A580, the crop factor (based on the diagonal) is 1.53 so the area ratio is about 2.35 so I don’t think 2 is that good an approximation. In any case, 2 x 16 still doesn’t equal 36, which was Photonut’s claim…
PhotoNut is correct, full frame size is approximately twice the area APS-C. Draw on paper a square measuring 36 x 24 mm (FF), and draw inside it two rectangular box measuring approximately 24 x 16 mm (APS-C).
You will find that the two box nearly filled the square. There is little space left, but 2X estimation is almost correct.
Can’t wait to hear more about the NEX-7! Hope it keeps the compactness of the earlier NEX bodies; can’t say I care much for a translucent mirror or OVF, if I wanted that, I’d buy another DSLR.
No offense to the admin but I think I’m going to open a new site, obvious-sony-alpha-rumors.com
Here are some teasers I’m going to publish in my first issue:
SONY to release 48Mp FF camera in 2013
SONY to release 500mm F4 lens in 2012
SONY to release new P&S cameras summer 2013
I’m all for it if it means you’ll spend less time polluting *this* site with posts like that.
Out of curiosity, why are you here PhotoNut?
sony-alpha-rumors.com
Owner = PhotoNut
Admin = PhotoNut
Member = PhotoNut
Sourses = PhotoNut
Reader = PhotoNut
LOL 😉
“Tey will all be … optimized for video.”
Please Sony, optimize for still photography! Video might be an important sales argument in the entry level market — but not when you’re serious about photography.
“Please Sony, optimize for still photography! Video might be an important sales argument in the entry level market — but not when you’re serious about photography.”
Exactly. I use my camera for my PHOTOGRAPHY business. I have a video camera for those times when I want one.
Give me the best possible tool for taking pictures…keep the video functionality in video cameras and consumer grade cameras. Not one of my actual photographer friends actually cares about having video in their cameras.
There was a rumour that TWO FF cameras will be introduced – perhaps the second one will be a higher spec unit for still photography only (40 megapixels plus). It would certainly cut the legs out from under almost all medium format manufacturers, except for the very few near the top of the heap.
Would be better without an antialiasing filter, though.
Agreed
I second what RB says. IMO, the translucent mirror, EVF combo is only good for improving autofocus when shooting VIDEO. These concessions for video decrease PHOTOGRAPHY performance by diminishing light to the sensor, and limiting the performance of the viewfinder. FYI: I push the limits of my a900 by shooting fast primes in low light very often. I spent good money on 50mm 1.4, 85mm 1.4, 135mm 1.8 lenses for this reason. Diverting light from the sensor is a crazy proposition, even if the sensor has improved high ISO performance. What is the point of spending thousands of dollars to have the fastest lenses and the best ISO sensor for my PHOTOGRAPHY business only to reduce brightness with a translucent mirror for VIDEO???
Keep the video compromises in the consumer grade cameras, and make the professional cameras purpose built for PHOTOS.
I bought my A900 and fast glass mainly for the sake of depth of field. The A580 has better high ISO and similar dynamic range.
everything released now would be better than the video on the 5D which uses a 3y old processor!
The competition doesn’t stand still.
Just because everyone watching this site is excited about a new camera we all expect Sony to announce soon doesn’t mean both Nikon and Sony are just giving up… And just because I own a full-frame Sony doesn’t mean I don’t want to see Nikon and Canon to make great cameras.
Rooting for Sony doesn’t mean rooting against Canon and Nikon and great cameras help photographers make great pictures.
SONY ALPHA RUMORS to release Full frame cameras that will redefine the world…
PHOTONUT to be release in Mental Hospital because he redefines the word ‘Insanity’… or maybe the Staff/Admin there had enough of your Rumors. 🙂
I second what RB says. IMO, the translucent mirror, EVF combo is only good for improving autofocus when shooting VIDEO. These concessions for video decrease PHOTOGRAPHY performance by diminishing light to the sensor, and limiting the performance of the viewfinder. FYI: I push the limits of my a900 by shooting fast primes in low light very often. I spent good money on 50mm 1.4, 85mm 1.4, 135mm 1.8 lenses for this reason. Diverting light from the sensor is a crazy proposition, even if the sensor has improved high ISO performance. What is the point of spending thousands of dollars to have the fastest lenses and the best ISO sensor for my PHOTOGRAPHY business only to reduce brightness with a translucent mirror for VIDEO???
Keep the video compromises in the consumer grade cameras, and make the professional cameras purpose built for PHOTOS.
The SLT approach also improves AF in action photography as it’s not completely blinded when the mirror flips.
Andrea please get some info about the
Realease Day of the a77, so i can Continue the Countdown
Looking forward to the NEX7 rumors I’m hoping it is out by sept otherwise I’ll get the nex-5 or c5 if it’s out
If Sony make a professional camera FF I will buy it.
Regards from A Coruña, Spain.
One thing Sony will have to do if it intends its future cameras to compete with professional series Canon and Nikon cameras is start weather sealing the lenses and cameras.
Who is going to take a pro big $$$ Sony camera somewhere if it isn’t sealed to endure pro challenging environments? It is embarrassing that the G series lenses are not sealed (especially in light of the expensive prices for them).
I am very happy about what Sony is doing in the bigger picture. The last twelve months (and the next twenty four months) will be pivotal for Sony cameras in the ‘big picture’. Even Steve Jobs (in a roundabout way) acknowledges that Sony is a company that takes genuine risks in terms of product design and R & D. Do they have some duds along the way? Of course!
The A55 is a great camera is many regard (especially when you factor its PRICE in for all the features that you get). I’m a proud Vancouver user of Sony cameras gear and make no apologies.
What am I holding out for? A Sony Zeiss 70-200mm f/2.8 lens and Sony Zeiss 10-20mm lens!
Like some of the other contributors here, I have some fast glass for my Sony gear. I have held off the purchase of either of the FF bodies because of the lack of features on them, although I have used a 900. I don’t worry too much about the translucent mirror technology, but the next one really needs live view as well as eye-level viewing for my purposes. I like to photograph wild flowers, and the ability to use live view without too much kneeling and grovelling is great as you get older! To this end I love my 350, but would like to be able to use my sigma 50mm f1.4 and my sigma macro 70mm to their full potential. The video option is one that Sony do well and I would love to dispense with the separate video camera that I carry. (I use a Finepix HS10 as well for travelling light and it is almost all you need in one package, but it lacks speed and ultimate quality of my SLRs) Come on Sony,hurry up to the next FF.
I hope the new sensor is bettor on noise then the earlier sensors! The “Sony noise” is kinda disturbing. I got a Alpha 550 and even at 200 iso i find noise ;P
If the new translucent mirror looses as much light as the a33 and a35, sony would have to reduce the ISO noise!
I`m looking forward to try the new A77.
When will i find athe A77 in stores in norway?
So the translucent mirror on the next full frame will be like the one on the a55? It will be a digital viewfinder essentially then? So not like the previous viewfinders of the a900 or any normal dslr?? If so, I am very disappointed.
I think Sony should release two quite different new cameras to replace the A850/A900. A translucent mirror model with a high definition OLED EVF and all the video trickery that might be required by the gadget enthusiast, and also a simpler true DSLR model with a proper optical viewfinder for the purists.
I agree with the comments about translucent or pellicle mirrors. They have the same drawbacks they’ve always had. Namely they reduce light to the sensor and they can degrade the image quality. If Nikon uses Sony’s new 36 Mega pixel sensor in a true FF DSLR and Sony only uses it in an SLT FF model, Nikon will have superior image quality.