SonyAlphaRumors and Photoclubalpha, both got confirmation from their sources that the NEX-FF is going to announced soon (in October). The first camera will cost around $3000. There will be also a “cheaper” camera coming a couple of months later. Both cameras feature the same sensor and both are very NEX-7 alike (but they will NOT replace the NEX-7). The camera has an E-mount and current lenses will work in crop mode.
At start there will be two zooms, a 35mm f/2.8 Zeiss and a 55mm f/1.8 Zeiss. There is also a rumor about a 85mm f/1.8 Zeiss but it’s unconfirmed yet.
Overall it looks like Sony pushed very hard on the accelerator to be the first company (after Leica) launching a full frame compact camera with interchangeable lenses. Sounds like the RX1 success convinced them to put all their resources and knowledge on a sort of interchangeable mount version. Sounds great!
56 Responses
This is great news. Means finally that abomination known as Micro Four Turds will be consigned to the trash heap of history.
Man it will be nice when you guys get your full frame NEX so you can stop pissing over every other camera. Hope you’ve got a decent credit limit to afford all those Zeiss lenses to go with your $3000 body.
I’ll just trade in my M9 and sell off a couple of the Leica lenses I’m not using. Besides not my problem if a little peasant like you cannot afford what will obviously be a system for the elite.
“I’ll just trade in my M9 and sell off a couple of the Leica lenses I’m not using. Besides not my problem if a little peasant like you cannot afford what will obviously be a system for the elite.”
Oh dear. My guess is that there’s a 13 year old counting his pocket money behind that post, maybe he uses a Canon Rebel he borrows from dad?
I have a FF camera and a bag of nice lenses and I can still see advantages for smaller systems for hand held shooting even once we have a Nex 7 like FF camera. One advantage is getting adequate DoF in poor light as with a FF camera you can end up trying to keep the shutter speed up and the ISO down. With smaller systems you get the same FoV with wider lenses and deeper DoF at the same aperture. FF + 50mm at f1.4 will never give you the same deeper DoF (and there are times that you want deeper DoF) as a MFT and 25mm at f1.4 and as a result the smaller system will allow adequate DoF at faster shutter speeds or lower ISO’s or a combination of your choice than a larger format.
With larger sensors you can stop lens a bit (two stops in case of FF) and get similar DOF with the same noise level but with higher lens sharpness (1 – larger sensor need lower lens sharpness to achieve similar results, but higher physical magnification of longer focal lengths usually makes them sharper, especially considering the fact they are stopped down. 2 – noise level will be the same).
Lack of DOF…. Really? That’s your argument? You do know that you could just stop down more and use a higher ISO since the ISO noise is less with the FF sensor.
“I’ll just trade in my M9 and sell off a couple of the Leica lenses I’m not using. Besides not my problem if a little peasant like you cannot afford what will obviously be a system for the elite.”
haha! Wow Camerageek… now that is a clown comment if I have ever heard one.
There are two points you are missing:
1. Your failure to understand that 4/3’s going out of business would be a terrible problem for the camera industry. You see competition is what drives business and competition is the ONLY reason Sony is even coming out with a FF mirrorless product. A company that is “first to market” gets a huge advantage and Sony can see that and they will get a big following. Additionally without 4/3’s there might not even be a mirrorless market to begin with so you should be happy it exists. 4/3’s is not going anywhere, there is a big market for them and many people buy into it not needed a giant sensor, you see not everyone is a professional or as you would say “elite” photographer.
2. Which brings me to my second point… I know a lot of professional photographers that do not use what you would probably refer to as “elite” cameras. They get stunning results from their “non-elite” cameras . They get PAID with their “non-elite” cameras. Would you call someone like Chase Jarvis (Olympus user) a peasant?
What you should be saying is that hopefully companies like Oly/Pannasonic/Fuji/Nikon/Canon et cetera create products that give Sony competition. It only makes Sony better and the consumer wins in the end with a great selection of products.
But you might not get any of this because you are an entitled self proclaimed elitist with expendable cash that consumes camera after camera thinking it will make you a better photographer. The reality is that you should be out creating photographs instead of talking down to people. If you are a professional photographer, which I doubt, I hope you do not treat your customers the way you treat people on this forum.
The elite what?
My guess is that IF they put a decent focus assist feature on it (Like on the NEX-7). Then if you don’t need auto-focus, you won’t have to put a pricey Zeiss lens on it. With adaptors, you could choose from possibly a thousand different older Manual Focus lenses. For instance on the new Leica M (M-240), I’ve used great older Canon FD and Zeiss (Contax/Yashica) lenses that only cost a few hundred dollars on the used market and it worked great! If Sony puts focus assist on it, then I would pre-order this ASAP!
My full frame NEX-VG900 works with all of my old full frame Pentax lenses using a low cost PK-NEX adapter and there are also low cost fast F1.4 full frame lenses available today.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8235/8595909670_7fdd0acb7a_k.jpg
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8338/8170745790_59300d69fc_k.jpg
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/896977-REG/Rokinon_cv85m_nex_85mm_T_1_5_Cine_AS.html
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/896967-REG/Rokinon_cv35_nex_35mm_T1_5_Cine_Lens.html
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/896985-REG/Rokinon_cv14m_nex_14mm_T_3_1_Cine_IF.html
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/896981-REG/Rokinon_cv24m_nex_24mm_T1_5_Cine_Ed.html
not really. in fact, the one really seriously gets doomed is the APS-C DX.
Doubtful. APS-C will win out over Micro Four Turds. Already is. Why pay 1400 for the new OM-D when you can get light years better IQ with a Fuji X-Mount for less?
Why pay for a BMW when you can get better performance from a Ford Mustang? Now take your narrow mind back to your double wide and play with your Instamatic. You’re not fooling anyone.
Considering the Ford Mustang GT far outsells the BMW M3, I’d say your analogy is flawed 😉 I like all 3 systems being moaned over though, why can’t people understand that each system has it’s place? I shoot FF and APS-C, both are extremely useful.
Doubtful. APS-C will win out over Micro Four Turds. Already is. Why pay 1400 for the new OM-D when you can get light years better IQ with a Fuji X-Mount for less?
I dont think you , you had experienced to even try both system [fuji/Oly] in the field for a comparison,As.I own both system,.Fuji X-E1+18,35,60, 18-55zoom,.and,.E-M5, E-P5 ,12,17,20, 25, both 45oly and macro Pl 60mm ply, 75mm ,with panny zoom,14-45, 45-200 14-140..which i sold already,.
i started my M43 gear with Gf1, G3 and GX1,.the last two i sold it,.and moved to OM-D, E-PL5, E-P5,.and also as i said,.I purchased Fuji X-E1, with 4lenses,.and also tried the 1.8/32mm Zeiss Touitte which i returned it.
My conclusion based on my experienced of shooting in the field,,.M43 gear is way, way more reliable and fun rather than Fuji system at least untill now,.,.
What’s the point of having GREAT SENSOR IQ, if every time you shoot ,.picture is miss focused or blurry,.contrary,.with M43 gear, is far more responsive, and reliable because of the Af accuracy,.
i sometimes make comparison,.shoot between,.Fuji X-E1 +1.4/35mm >< E-P5+1.4/25mm PL DG,.in very low light condition,,.Olympus camera is easily snap o focus , while Fuji still struggle to focusing,.and Olympus with their Incredible 5-aXIS IBIS ,.it actually give me a better IQ result than Fuji,. because ,.i would only need ISO 800 plus 5 AXIS IBIs ,.while Fuji ,.i had no choice but to pump up the ISO to 6400 just to achieve the proper Shutter speed,.
Dont tell me that you are A CAMERA GEEK ,.hen you only have one system,.because i own 3 system,.Nikon D300s, D700, D600 ,.and both Fuji and M43,.
you have to really experienced ,.and you will understand the REAL ADVANTAGE OF SMALLER SYSTEM
I think what Camerageek is trying to say, and many are thinking, is: m43 does not make the best compromise in terms of sensor size and camera body, as Sony, Fuji, Ricoh, even Canon have shown with equally diminutive camera bodies. Or, why put an undersized sensor in an oversized body? Olympus tried this with Four-Thirds, only to be pummeled by poor sales (just discontinued and abandoned–3rd or 4th lens mount abandoned by Olympus, BTW). At any given price point, I would want the biggest sensor I can buy in a reasonably-sized package–this gives me the best possible image quality for the price, all other things being equal. Your needs and choices may and will differ.
If m43 does not have any significant size advantage (and is at a serious disadvantage with its 2x conversion on adapted lenses) over APS-C and likely Sony’s FF mirrorless offering, why then would I choose it, given the nosier performance and lower DR? Maybe it’s good enough, but so is a point and shoot in most situations where m43 would be employed. And I still wouldn’t use m43 in low-light, sports/actions, or impress-the-client situations–that still calls for a higher end (aka BIG) DSLR.
Keep dreaming. Reality is too harsh for you.
I hope that crop mode can be activated by hand even though a non NEX lens is mounted.
When you dont need the resolution need reach and want a smaller RAW file.
It couldn’t possibly give you more “reach” though. It would just crop the image on the same sensor. With APS-C cameras the pixel density is often higher, hence more “reach” with a smaller sensor than FF.
In this case, crop mode and FF mode both have the same pixel density.
Well, if the full frame resolution is 32mp, DX crop will be 14mp.
FF 32mp, crop 14mp, native APS-C 14mp… all have the same pixel density.
Pricing strategy probably borrowed from Fuji and Oly. Not smart for the first move, Sony. Not smart.
well, compared to the fucked up Leica crappy old cameras , it is cheap and better.
It would be interesting to know how many of those that call it ” the fucked up Leica crappy old cameras” have both the money to buy it and it’s crappy old manual focus lenses and/or could manage to operate them in a proper way.
I’ve been tempted many times by those “fucked up (…) crappy (…) cameras” but I never had the courage to step in a shop and buy one, but that doesn’t make me say anything more than to complain about the high prices.
And it goes the same for other camera models, what’s the point in being so fundamentalist that the only way to feel good is to call trash to everything but the object of your desire…that sometimes doesn’t even exist?
I hope that when you get your dream camera you’ll be able to make something that nobody else would do with one of the cameras you’re so negative about…and I’m sure that if that happens it will be an image not to be shown via internet.
well simpleton… leica does not lost half it´s worth in 12 month.
leica is like ferrari.. with the right modell the price even goes up.
something simpletons like you will never understand….
The price is outstanding! Better than a Leica and on par with many other FF cameras. Just because you are too poor to afford what is obviously for those who are of the Godlike Photographic Elite, that means you cannot complain about price!
Really folks who do expect stuff for free
this is great, but I want to make sure it actually be released (not announced) by second week of Dec.
I just want to get it before this Christmas.
Me? I’d like it to buy it after two Christmases! Be a nice unit to use with my OM lenses at their native focal length. Should be good buying after two years on the market.
Wrong, current full frame E mount lenses will work in full frame mode.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/896977-REG/Rokinon_cv85m_nex_85mm_T_1_5_Cine_AS.html
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/896967-REG/Rokinon_cv35_nex_35mm_T1_5_Cine_Lens.html
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/896985-REG/Rokinon_cv14m_nex_14mm_T_3_1_Cine_IF.html
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/896981-REG/Rokinon_cv24m_nex_24mm_T1_5_Cine_Ed.html
“Zeiss has released a new cine zoom lens, the CZ.2 15-30/T2.9, which complements the existing CZ.2 70-200mm T2.9 and CZ.2 28-80mm T2.9 lenses.
As with other Zeiss CZ.2 lenses, the new 15-30mm T2.9 has an interchangeable mount system for compatibility with PL, EF, F, MFT and E mounts. The lens is compatible with full frame (e.g., 5D Mark III) and APS-C (e.g., EOS C300) cameras.”
http://www.photographybay.com/2013/09/10/zeiss-15-30mm-t2-9-compact-zoom-cine-lens-unveiled/
bahahha PREPARE to TROW that CRAPPY M43 into hell! Sony will blame all 🙂
you’re a ridiculous prole…
If the interface is actually good, this is great news. If it works like the other NEX cameras, it will be a dismal failure. We’ll see.
3 grand is also very high…it will have to be very very good to be successful. You’re competing with very decent SLRs there. There’s a compelling reason to go mirrorless…but IQ is going to have to be outstanding.
I think it will be only a niche product, cause 3000 bucks is an extreme high price. If you want fast lenses you have to buy big & heavy lenses for that. The advantage is gone. You can get a Nikon D800 for 2200 Euro with a good lens support. As photographer I want a lightweight small camera with fast lenses if I’m on the way. This is an advantage for Micro Four Thirds and APS-C cameras. So relax and cool down … maybe Sony do not understand the market. And the new Leica is still a good camera.
“At start there will be two zooms, a 35mm f/2.8 Zeiss and a 55mm f/1.8 Zeiss.”
Did you mean to write two _prime_ lenses?
uh man, y does it have to be so expensive.
Comparing to the Leica M, the Sony NEX-FF is a viable option to be considered. Hope that there are a couple more good lenses released. Would this hugh end NEX-FF also take Nikon and Canon lenses? If yes, then I will definitely buy it.
Oh dear. As well as the concept of ‘either or’ in most languages there is also the concept of ‘both’.
I use my E-PL5 a lot. I also use my Pentax K5, my infrared Panasonic LX2, my XPan and my Rollei 35S.
None of these is any ‘better’ than another. It depends on the location, the subject matter, the weather and how I’m feeling that day – flâneury or in need of a challenge.
So be pleased that you can choose from a wide selection of formats, cameras and lenses and go out and take happy photographs.
End of lesson.
Well said Izumi ! A good eye that ‘s what you need first. Without vision you can use any of those cameras it won’t help. With an artistic eye all of them will do, some more than others depending to place, subject, mood.
Merci, Alain.
This is priced well. For a new product that fills the gap in the mirrorless industry it has to be priced high initially. Look at tje EM-1, despite the sensor size it os well kitted and priced accordingly. If the FF NEX body is weather sealed, includes Olympus’ 5-Axis IBIS, cdaf and pdaf then we’re indeed on the right track. There won’t be anything close to it on the market. The only body close will be the Leica M. Even then it is a rangefinder, manual only body with no weather sealing and limited video options. Sony know the market well, to say otherwise is just plain ignorance. $3000 is the price you oay for having the only mirrorless interchangeable FF autofocusing body in the market.
When it comes right down to it, it’s all about the photo. It has been said by those in more knowledgeable states that you are better off investing in a $2000 piece of glass, on a $500 camera, than and $2000 camera with a $500 piece of glass. Then again, if you can afford $2500 or more for glass and camera, you really don’t have much to worry about. One thing is for certain, the limitations of m43 are obvious in low light settings when comparing to APS-C. Comparing those sensor results at 1600 and 3200 ISO exposes those limitations remarkably.
Maybe a good camera, but most Zeiss lenses are too BIG and HEAVY for a mirrorless system. Also they are way EXPENSIVE. This is not the idea behind making mirrorless cameras. Mirrorless users need compact and lightweight systems. Sony absolutely missed the point.
+1
Actually, mirrorless doesn’t necessarily need to be compact or cheap. Generally, it just needs to be smallER (not necessarily really small.) In fact, once EVFs get to a high enough quality level (they’re close), their advantage over OVFs will outweigh any disadvantages, then the only disadvantage will be on-sensor vs. traditional PDAF, which likely be developed away.
It will take any system a while to get there, but start with any DSLR out there, replace the OVF with a very high quality EVF, move the mount back 2+ centimeters (~ 1 inch) and replace all of the lenses with equivalents (focal lengths, aperture, optical quality, etc.) designed for the shorter flange distance. What are you left with? A camera that is comparable on every level AND is a smaller system (body may be basically the same, but the lenses could be smaller.) For example, imagine a 5DmIII-like body with a (say) 4 million dot EVF and a 70-200mm f/2.8 IS with the same IQ as the current 70-200mm f/2.8L II, but the size of the current 70-200mm f/4L IS, mounted 2cm closer to the sensor, so that it has better balance. Then, look at your bag with a 24-70mm f/2.8 the size of the current 24-70mm f/4L and other lenses comparably smaller. Ergonomics are the same (or better due to lens size/location), the system is smaller and lighter, and the IQ is the same. In that hypothetical, what sells DSLRs other than entrenchment (people have those lenses already)?
Sony can use an A-mount to FF E-mount adapter to use A-mount lenses to bridge gaps in their FF NEX lens lineup in the short-run until it can be filled out. They will be able to offer large DSLR-form and rangefinder-form bodies for different applications.
What is the idea madmax? Just because bit doesn’t adhere to your ideology or budget doesn’t make it wrong. Leica M rangefinders are mirrorless and expensive – they just opened a new manufacturing plant to meet demand. There is a market segment for a autofocus FF mirrorless camera and Sony has seen fit to be the first to provide it. They haven’t lost the plot at all. Some may argue Olympus have lost the plot charging $1600 for a EM-1 body and $999 for the EP-5. You can get the Pentax K-5 II, arguably one of the best aps-c sensor camera’s in quite a small dslr body for $850. It’s all respective of what else is in the market segment. You say lenses will be big and heavy..you won’t know that yet. Even then it’s purely subjective on what YOU consider big and heavy
The E-M1 body only is $1400, not $1600. The most recent Pentax, the K-5 IIs has a list price of $1200, so not that different. All manufacturers start higher than the price that they expect it to settle at. If demand supports that price, they’ll keep it there; otherwise, they capture early adopters and then offer discounts. The K-5 IIs is down $250 from its initial price and the E-M1 will come down, too. The GH3 listed at $1299, but it now selling for $1099 or less. Did they overprice the camera initially? Not necessarily. It’s what companies do to maximize profits. Pre-orders for the E-M1 seem to be very strong, so it’s hard to say that they’ve “lost the plot.”
Here in Australia the K5 II can be bought for $850 and Olympus Australia lists the EM-1 as $1599. Preorders mean zip in the scope of general sales. Canon still outsells everyone yet you don’t see them top amazon lists. 10 years in a row now? …and I don’t even use or like canon. Think of it this way – I purchased my D600 for $1600. If the EM-1 was on that shelf right next to it I would have a hard time convincing myself to buy that instead of the Nikon..both are the same price. The Nikon is a far more mature system with a significantly larger sensor. Disregarding ming Thein’s biased reviews (he’s well known to be paid by Olympus) if you watch the camera store reviews its said straight out – theres no replacement for displacement. A full frame mirrorless with autofocus is well worth the price sony will be asking. Canon and Nikons largest profit margins are from higher end products in their lineup. Sony will be smart to follow suit. Over at the photoblographer it’s mentioned that when Sony do release the FF mirrorless that olympus will have to innovate once again. When prices for FF mirrorless cameras drop where does M4/3rd’s go??!! If FF mirrorless bodies eventually sell for 2K-2.5K then how does olympus counter? I hope they have a long term goal because they will looking on with interest with Sonys development.
Pre-orders don’t mean much about long-run total sales, but my point is that their initial price point, which will fall, does not seem to be too high, as they are selling many at that price. Once that initial demand is satisfied, prices will settle to a more reasonable price for most other potential buyers (again, just like the Pentax did, the GH3 did, and most cameras do.)
When FF mirrorless bodies fall to $2-2.5k, they will still be well out of the price range of most camera buyers. It will have little effect on m4/3, which consists primarily of sub-$1k bodies (on release.) Maybe, the top-end models won’t be able to come in with quite the initial inflated price, but at just a little over $1k, they will still have plenty of demand even with a $2k FF option. Look at APS-C DSLRs vs. FF DSLRs. Even with sub-$2k FF options, APS-C bodies ranging from $500-$1300 (new, list price) are selling very well.
I completely welcome Sony’s FF mirrorless entry, but I don’t think it will be a m4/3 killer by any means.
We’re all winners here – the consumer is in for a treat with so many products in the pipeline. What is terrific is Sony and Olympus sharing technology. If they release this FF mirrorless body with weather sealing and Olympus’ 5-Axis IBIS then there will be many happy people out there ready to establish a new system. Leica won’t be worried..at first. Surely, the allure of a small FF mirrorless auto-focusing body will be too hard to resist for several Leica-nuts. I still find it difficult to every choose, say, an EM-1 for $1600, with a Nikon D600 right next to it for the same price. You simply can’t avoid the FF allure. Sure you can get fast lenses for M4/3, but you simply cant achieve the same DOF at the same FOV, subject separation and that 3D pop are subjective but alluring to me. On the flipside, the larger DOF from the smaller 4/3rd sensors bode well for street photographers and the like
I wish that the Sony FF NEX will have an 90-degrees articulating EVF like the Panasonic GX-7.
I wish it would also have a touch-screen to enable touch focus when the camera is on a tripod like the NEX-5 series cameras.
Then it should have an IR port in front of and at the rear of the camera for convenient wireless IR remote shutter release whether the photographer is in front of or is behind the camera.