DxOmark (Click here) posted the full GF6 sensor test. The GF6 scores exactly like the GX1 (that has the same sensor) but it under performs compared to the best Sony and Olympus compacts. DxO writes: “As an entry-level camera the GF6 has some promising features but the imaging performance is sadly lacking, at least when compared with rival offerings adopting much newer and more capable sensors. If sharing (or even remote camera control) using the built-in WiFi feature is high on your list of priorities the GF6 appeals but based on sensor performance alone there are better choices available.”
Panasonic announced two new cameras this year but between the GF6 and the G6 I would definitely go for the latter if you do not care about the bigger camera size. And now let’s hope Panasonic can catch up with the best mirrorless cameras with the new GX7!
—
Panasonic GF6 at Amazon (Click here), Adorama (Click here), BHphoto (Click here), Technikdirekt, Wex UK,
Panasonic G6 at Amazon (Click here), BHphoto (Click here), Adorama (Click here) and at Wex UK (Click here).
93 Responses
Well, that’s what happens when camera manufacturers use tiny sensors. Anything smaller than APS-C simply doesn’t compare. APS-C is actually performing better than some of the 35mm full frame sensors.
This is why I chose Sony’s APS-C platform.
I smell a Troll…its amazing how you only see what you want to see. E-PL5 on the same picture that you’re ragging on “tiny sensors” to the right of the NEX shows DXO scores that are on par. Just in case you didn’t know the E-PL5 and the GF6 have the same size “tiny sensor”.
Sony sure does make some awesome sensors though.
Yes, Sony makes some good sensors, but awfull cameras and lenses.
Yes, horrible camera and lenses. Another troll?
Another crying fanboy?
Yes Jeff this is the place for them. You should know that by now. Your just a little slow on the uptake, but keep up the dogged dogma, its a good laugh. Like slapstick, very predictable, but hey one just has to laugh. Ha ha.
Here’s 4 cents for your shill comment. Keep up the good job, homie.
if you’re gonna troll i respectfully request comments that are funnier and more witty. the difference in sensor size can be seen in low light iso difference between epl5 and 3n.
gf6 does not enthuse me. less models; more investment in sensor tech panasonic
“the difference in sensor size can be seen in low light iso difference between epl5 and 3n.”
Which is in the range of a quarter of a stops, i.e., negligible in practice.
GF6 and EPL-5 are micro 4/3 sensor… And EPL-5 sensor is a sony sensor.
And NEX lens are not good as m4/3 lens.
You call that trolling ? Pfff, lame. I’ve seen my fair share of trolls trying to start a flame war in this site and you sir, are a noob. Seriously, are you 12 ? Oh, excuse me, I meant 4, I’ve actually seen pretty good trolling from 12 year olds, your attempt otoh was just pathetic. Tell your parents to keep paying for your internet, that way you’ll have time to practice like a good basement dweller that you are.
actually, that’s good trolling: got a response from a number of people, including yourself.
In fact, there are no good or bad trolls; only good or bad community response. Yay, readers! 🙂
Well, the E-PL5 seems to basically match the NEX-3N’s performance, despite “smaller sensor”, eh? I’m actually pleasantly surprised by this; missed that entirely when the data first came out. Even the NEX-7 is basically only one stop ahead in dynamic range; at the same “measured ISO”, per DxO, their dynamic range is actually the same. Thank you, admin! 🙂 Now I have no regrets about having chosen µ43 over NEX.
GF6’s sensor is a generation older, so it’s not a surprise that it falls behind. Kudos to Olympus for using their bestest sensor and circuitry in all of the latest bodies, something Panasonic could learn to do.
Your argument is very powerful: Smaller is less good, APS-C is better than FF, APS-C is samller than FF, then better is less good.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy
Thank you Panny for fooling consumers on another camera model with old guts. We’ll see this on the $199 bargain bin before the Holidays.
Again…
While we’d all like their sensor tech to move quicker, Let’s remember this is not their top end model, and the gx1 sensor really isn’t bad. It compares to gh2 and g3 quality and is a definite improvement over all previous GF cameras.
That is one of Panasonic’s strategic mistakes: put inferior sensors into their small, compact bodies. Don’t they get that we want the same IQ in their larger and smaller bodies? Why should I accept IQ compromises, when I want to go out with a small camera?
Olympus got it right here: same sensor IQ throughout the m4/3 product line, after the release of the E-M5.
Id say the more likely scenario is that oly used the same sensor in all bodies because this was the only sensor available to them!
No, Oly could use their OLD sensors as Panasonic, but they did not….well done Oly
Good eco camera for the eco conscious buyer. Good use of old parts and technology. Is Panasonic. Is good.
I have to admire your positivism, the most eco-friendly camera must be the pin-hole camera made from recycled cardboard. This is all good?
“Good eco camera for the eco conscious buyer.”
No. Not good. Eco conscious buyer go on eBay and “recycle” either GF3 or GF5. 🙂
Well.. Puting an old señor in a new camera isn’t particularly eco : thse who get it will soon get a newer one with a better sensor : this is programmed obsolescence which is never particularly eco. On the ther hand, those owning a camera with a good sensor will feel less impulse to get a new one offering the same sensor performance with only minor improvements.
Pana really can’t catch up with sensor tech .
The incoming GX7 will not be good enough with GH3 sensor , need something special to compete against OMD Pro . I would urge Pana to delay the production for GX7 till Pana have something that really up to the competition .
Not sure if any further delay will help if they can’t come up with better sensor than GH3. GX1 is already overdue for upgrade.
I hope GX7’s sensor won’t be worse than E-PM2…
i thought the gh3 sensor was sony too? it seems way too similar to the em5
if i had to guess, i would say that GX7 is going to come out with fuji X-trans sensor? any hints admin???
G5/6 = hand-me-down from GH2 – MAR
GX1 = hand-me-down from G3
GF6 = hand-me-down from GX1
GX7 probably more of the same
Hey, no complaints. Good for the environment. Good for the eco conscious buyer. Good for the economy. Good for you. Good for me. Is Panasonic. Is good.
Do you think that the “old” sensors are taken from stock pile? They “harm” the environment to the same degree as a new sensor would have.
It might only be good for the environment, because less people would buy a camera with aging sensor tech.
if GX7 sensor has all-new features it will better than GH3/OMD sensor.
The GX7 isn’t competing against the OMD Pro. It’s shapes up to be a very unique camera. Personally I think the GH3 sensor is fine. Maybe just because it’s such a major upgrade from previous Pana sensors though …
GH1 is still best sensor from pany by DXO. That’s a shame!
Did u forget the GH3? Best sensor in a Panny cam. Problem is that it’s a sony sensor
GH1 is overrated, the noise shows strong banding which in practices reduces strongly the usable DR. I used it for a while
Here’s another latest prototype sensor with 5 times more sensitivity than current silicium-based technology:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/06/130612133101.htm
The next generation sensors is on the horizon, who will put it in a premium camera first?
The problem with all these new sensors is that they might have some advantages, while often having major disadvantages (that you often don’t hear about). Just have a look at Foveon: in theory it’s awesome, but the ISO performance is subpar. Also, it’s probably very expensive. At the moment, the best effort still seems to be improvement by brute force, i.e. processing power and more of the same.
I means that sensor made by panasonic. GH3 sensor is probably made by sony.
So basically the GF6 sensor is the same as the GX1 sensor.
hmmmm
http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Cameras/Compare-Camera-Sensors/Compare-cameras-side-by-side/(appareil1)/872%7C0/(brand)/Panasonic/(appareil2)/839%7C0/(brand2)/Olympus/(appareil3)/632%7C0/(brand3)/Panasonic
dxo…. their ratings seemes strange, but there somone explains it very very well
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/essays/dxomark_sensor_for_benchmarking_cameras2.shtml
wtf I thought Pana had put the GH2 sensor in the GF6. This is just bullshit. The GX1 sensor is basically the old 12MP + 4MP.
“The GX1 sensor is basically the old 12MP + 4MP.”
Which also is bullshit. Not only that it is impossible to just add “+4MP” to a sensor layout of the same dye size. Read the tests from back in 2011 when the G3 -and with it the GX1 sensor- was introduced. Most considered it a major leap forward in all aspects of sensor quality. And until the advent of the EM-5, all Oly customers complained that Pany left Oly with the old 12MP design while reserving the much more capable 16MP design for the G3, GX1 and, with apparently only minor updates, the G5.
I updated from an E-P1/G1 to the G3 at he time and was deeply deceived. The resolution increase was very marginal and there was zero difference in noise and DR. Only the E-M5 was a real jump forward.
I had both the G2 and the G3 on my shopping list at the time. And was tending to the G2 for its better controls and the highly discounted price. But after taking out both for test shots, the difference was pretty obvious to me. Not resolution-wise of course: who would really notice 15% higher pixel density, except in very rare circumstances? But in most other respects. Especially chroma noise in the shadows was significantly lower, providing for an immediately obvious visual difference. This was enough of an incentive for me, but remains a matter of taste.
Wow there are people who actually care and believe in dxo mark…that explains a lot
Yeah tere are people that believe rigorous experimental approach and they make part of science…
DXO has a lot more credibility than you, kid.
it really gets boring to hear people complaining about the use of older sensors, unless you need to shoot at extreme high ISO all the time, Except for difficult scenarios, nobody would see differences in the lower ISO range when you look at photos.
And what about dynamic range ? Even at low iso, more DR is always welcome for landscape and portraits. It makes less highlights and more information is shadows !
more DR for portraits? hmmmmm..
…ehmmm…NO, what about Dynamic Range (almost 2EVS) and Color Depth…for me far more important than ISO
The real jump is in DR : that is what I appreciated more with the E-M5 new sensor. And it makes a great difference in good conditions too (sunny daylight is contrasty!)
yeah i only mentioned high ISO, sorry…i do notice a much improved lattitude in OMD’s RAW files, but i personally never encounter shooting scenarios with a need for DR(I am an outdoor shooter most of the time),which does not mean its not needed, except for specific scenarios and even for the innocents who shoot vacation spots in bright sunlicht at noon(if they care, that is…)
I use GF5 to take photos of my 1 year old baby. Because she constantly moves and most of the photos are taken at home, I need high ISO. Even though I use 20mm/F1.7, sometimes ISO goes up to 800 or 1600. I’m shooting at 1/125 sec. My baby is growing and I’ll need faster shutter speed soon. I’d like to buy another camera. I hope GX7 has good sensor.
Idea: buy any crappy camera with a radio trigger and a manual flash. I suggest a Yongnuo flash and a Phottix trigger. Then you stop winging about ISO, I did, and even my Canon G15 pulls out great pics with flashes. By the way, I would buy another G15 over any mirrorless system cam, but that’s just me of course.
Thank you for the tip. But, I don’t want to use flash for my baby. I take about 20 of her pictures per day and flash might be not too good for her eyes.
When she becomes a kid and starts running, I’ll try flash. Thanks.
Use a flash that bounces off the ceiling.
I’m on kid #2 and it’s really just much better to use a flash and bounce it than to rely on high ISO and wide-open aperture. I’ve tried to use only those two variables myself with, first, a Summilux 25mm 1.4 on an adapter and then the 20mm 1.7 that you have. You’ll get a lot more keepers if you start to integrate a flash with your photography now. Stopped up aperture gives you such a shallow depth of field, it’s hard to get the eyes in focus, even on babies.
Thank you Jeff, I’ll try. Actually, it’s very difficult already to take a picture of her with f1.7 when she is walking. It was so easy to take her pictures a few months ago. A baby grows so fast.
White umbrella? Interesting… I’ll try flash when she is walking at least. Thank you for the advice.
Ditto I think people on this forum put way too much emphasis on the DXO marks while other factors are equally important. The Popular Photography resolution tests with kit lens show the GX1 with old sensor delivers equal resolution to the EM5 with its new Sony sensor at moderate ISOs so GF6 likely the same as has even better kit lens.
I prefer my photographs to be underexposed to bring out the rich colors and don’t mind having greater contrast and darker areas. Its sort of like in film days preferring Kodachrome 25 to high speed films which were more washed out. Most pictures I see posted using these high ISOs and better DR appear to be overexposed to me even if showing more detail in the shadows. While better DR can result in less blown out highlights one can use a polarizer or split density filter to bring out the detail in the clouds? Yes more DR may make for bringing out more detail in blown areas and dark areas but that does not necessarily make that a better picture which is subjective only enable one to take them under more difficult conditions.
I can’t quite agree with that, Ulli.. The poor DR is the problem wih the GX1 sensor.
High ISO is not that bad.
To me this was expected, but disapponting. I really yhink Panasonic should take a page out of Nikon, Pentax and Olympus’ book and offer proper sensor tech in all models.
Why should’t I be able to buy a small camera from panasonic with goof sensor tech? Panasonic id excluding thrmselves from consideration with me for this reason, which is a shame. For now my small camera remains an Epl5.
Best,
Christian
http://www.christianhovlandgrevstad.com
probably because the ‘goof tech’ doesn’t exist.
It has been commented on many sites that Olympus have jacked up their ISO ratings to make it look impressive and if you take that into account the difference GF6 to Olympus is not really that big: and the new processing engine in the GF6 narrows it even more even with ‘old tech’ sensor. So why not actually try the GF6 instead of whining about it – get it from Amazon and you can return it ‘no questions asked’?
By the way, do you actually *need* the ‘goof tech’ or do you want to own it because it exists?
DxO plot their measurements of DR, color depth etc., against measured (raw) ISO, not against manufacturers’ ISO, which is defined with respect to JPEGs. In other words, the DxO numbers do take the “jacked” ISO into account.
Also, what Olympus and some other manufacturers do, is fully compliant with the ISO standard, and therefore is not cheating. It’s a conscious design choice, the purpose of which is to protect the highlights in JPEGs.
Looking at some of your work, at least in your case i can imagine you want a good DR performance Christian, and I have to admit my comment is subjectively based on my own photography where the need for such is almost non existent. Still I do wonder how many of the people really need DR or just need to be able to recover hilight or shadowdetail due to wrong exposure.
I agree with Christian: I really hate burned out high lights. DR is important to me, as well as low noise at “high” (1600) ISOs. Therefore new sensor are always welcome if they fit those needs I have.
does this mean you are not happy yet with your current body Marco?
I suspect Marco is a wanker big time.
Having said that DR needs really depend on latitude. I am not surprised that you don’t need much in Holland there. The light is extremely soft most of the time. If you were in the Med the Summer Sun kills everything.
The same I suppose happens in Vancouver vs. Texas. I find always surprising that people discuss IQ without being aware of the different latiitudes. They should be aware that ambient LIGHT is different.
Thus they are gearheads, not photogs. , and wankers.
@ almerwank
Spoken by the biggest wanker on this forum and most others. Wake up and stop the racist slurs. It would appear that you have some major inferiority complexes to deal with.
Maybe you should buy a small dog to kick around. That should make you feel superior. All this over opinionated rubbish coming from some small man with small man syndrome.
Are you happy to accept criticism of your screwed up country? Should we all criticize his many governments you have had since 1945???? How about changing teams midway through the game?
Why not shut up whilst you are firmly behind. Maybe take your inferior fiat for a drive towards a cliff.
Yes poodle, stop licking my feet. It’s undignified 🙂
Yes pussy, when the going gets tough, the pussies change teams
Amalipric has got issues with controlled substances. He like to comment here after every hit he does and he’s as delusional as they get here.
Engrench please!
Discipline, nerd.
Jeff is 14, leave him alone.
Amalric, I have agreed with you on many occasions. But I must take umbrage at your comment on Marco. I suggest you go look at his pictures then retract your comment. No. Do it the other way around.
JimD: I want to second that. For instance, what Amalric said about available light and DR need is true, but no one so far noticed the merits of that point because of the w-word. (Although I’d say it’s more the climate than latitude per se, since here in Oregon, 45ºN-ish, right between Paris 49ºN and Rome 42ºN, we have a Sunny-f/11 rule and very flat light.)
In fact, knowing Marco’s work, I had to look up if there was a new meaning of “w—–” I didn’t know about, as a compliment, you know, like “bad” now means “good” and such. I’m not very “street”, so these new compliments slip by me…
Amalric: You do make a lot of good points, so, if you want to post them on the “4/3 rumors” Flicker group, there is a sticky thread for pet peeves.
Marco has some cute and some so-so pictures. He needs to improve his understanding of light and shadows, like most internet photogs.
Like everybody, he’d probably take better pictures with a proper camera, such as a CaNi with a properly sized sensor, and some flashes.
“I suspect Marco is a wanker big time.”
Possibly, but unlike you, he has some nice pictures to show for, knows how to behave in a civilized way and doesn’t have this unstoppable urge of name-calling whenever he happens to disagree with someone.
Also, he doesn’t have this unstoppable urge of self inflation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amalric
So tell us princely ruler, how old are you exactly (or put differently, how long do we have to wait until you did at least grow up enough to have learned some normal behavior)?
at least Panny is not the only one who offers old sensor tech in their new bodies (hint hint Canon)
This is really unfortunate.
The sensor of GF6 is not bad, but perhaps not good enough if you release a camera in 2013 with cut throat competition.
I do believe that this may damage the image (no pun intended) of the mirrorless segment. How?
My neighbor bought a GF6 with kit lens and he did not understand why it could not significantly outperform his old Canon S100.
It costed him 500 bucks after all .
After looking at his shoots, I tended to agree, 90% + of his shoots there were no significant difference.
5 days later, he returned it.
And let me guess, 90% of his shots were in good light where you wouldn’t see a sensor based difference unless seriously cropping; in good conditions the lens makes more of a difference. For most people in most conditions who don’t plan to really explore photography, one of the better compacts is a better choice. No put-down there, simply sound advice.
Yes, I agree with your analysis.
I would say 70% of shoots taken were in decent light.
However, I am not sure in this case it has to do with the photographer (consumer).
Part of the problem here is that it is not clear to me what market Panny is going after.
When used with the kit lens, the camera does not significantly outperform the better p&s.
If ones compares GF6 ( 599:- @ amazon) against NEX-3n (448:- @ amazon) it does not come out favorable.
Neither its price nor its performance.
Yes, the lens ecosystem of m4/3 is superior, both most buyers of this category usually stick with kit.
Essentially I would reiterate my suggestion that if you are releasing a camera in 2013 for 599:- it better be good.
One of my colleagues was in the same position, and while talking to me I told him a pen was not for him because it didn’t offer a significant advantage for the pictures he wants to use it for, and additionally, he wasn’t prepared to buy additional lenses that would allow for a significant advantage.
He bought an E-PL3 anyway, and returned within a week, concluding that I was right that he either had to spend money on at least the 45/1.8 (since portraiture of his kids was his primary application) or forgo paying for the ability to change lenses, and buy a high-end compact instead.
The G5 holds up significantly better with its GH2 derivative sensor in comparison to the current crop of Sony 16MP sensored Olympus mFT’s:
http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Cameras/Compare-Camera-Sensors/Compare-cameras-side-by-side/%28appareil1%29/872|0/%28brand%29/Panasonic/%28appareil2%29/840|0/%28brand2%29/Olympus/%28appareil3%29/816|0/%28brand3%29/Panasonic
(DxOMark GF-6, G5, E-PM2 comparison should this not read as a link).
Compares respectably on color depth and DR, but lags more in low-light. A good deal as a $500 kit to support ones mFT lenses for those unwilling/unable to pay the E-M5’s premium.
What’s better between GF1 and G1 about IQ?
Does anyone konws why m43 does not move to 14 bit sensors, shouldn’t it give more color and tonal depht?
Currently available technology allows 14-bit DR only for APS or larger sensor, and many of the larger sensors, including the Leica M, cannot beat 14 bits. I’m sure we’ll get there by the next generation of sensors, within a year or so, and then the only practical advantage of larger sensors will be with unnecessarily-high ISO (and for those of us who chronically underexpose 🙂 ).
Why is it that the m43 fanboys cry about bias every single time DXO rates any of their cameras lower than a apsc camera? LOL I’ve heard babies at a baby shower cry less. LOL
Ooooh…I’m so sacred, homie. Nothing like a tough keyboard warrior to scare me. Listen homes, if you and amraprick are lovers it’s ok, I’m just saying that your special “friend” does too many hard drugs, that’s all. Don’t be scared of the truth, homie! LOL
Oh and hey, go back and read your ” friends” comments, speaking of racial slurs. You got no leg to stand on with that argument, homeboy. I don’t take 2 faced internet nerds like you seriously. LOL
Bet you’d keep your gob shut if you were anywhere near me. I beat up a few nerds in my career. Alas, thus is the internet, room for everybody.
Bet you couldn’t beat an egg with an egg beater, homie. The fact that you try to act tough online tells me your the biggest nerd there is around here. Ooooh, I’m so scared of your threats, LOL. Delusional wankster you are. Don’t be scared of the truth homie! LOL
Enough already, nerd.