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Sony A7rII legacy test: “strong indication the sensor has no problem with magenta color shift at the borders anymore”.

Bildschirmfoto 2015-07-26 um 21.32.53
Image courtesy: 3D-Kraft.

There are still no reviews of the new Sony A7rII. Bit strange if you consider the camera is set to ship in a few days on August 5 according to Amazon US (Click here). Sony still doesn’t allow to shoot pictures with legacy lenses but 3D-Kraft (Click here) tested the [shoplink 38771 ebay]Zeiss Hologon T* 8/16 lens[/shoplink] on the A7rII and analyzed the results from the LCD screen. Of course this is not a very scientific way but 3D-Kraft has a good eye when it comes to legacy lens test. So these are his first impressions:

What you see on the display looks very promising for legacy lens collectors! It gives strong indication that the sensor of the new Sony A7RII has no problem with magenta color shift at the borders anymore. It also looked like the borders were less blurred compared to the sample from the A7S.

Well, let’s hope his “Impressions” will be confirmed by future more advanced tests!

A7rII preorder list:
In USA: at Amazon, BHphoto, Adorama, SonyStore US, FocusCamera, Uniquephoto.
In Europe at Sony DE, UK, FR, IT, ES, NL, BE, CH, AT, SE, FI, NO, PT. Wex UK.
In Asia at Digitalrev, CameraPro.

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115 Responses

  1. It is very concerning that there seems to be no reviews out so far. This is not a good sign and there is no way many of us will shell out over 2k with next to no reviews.

    Whats going on? There was a bloke here who had a a7r2 and put some test shots in his flickr and he had to remove it and i bet it was removed due to sony. Why? What there they hiding?

          1. From memory, we didn’t see any a7ii reviews before it released either…

          2. Yeah, despite Sony almost immediately issuing an improvement that idea got caught in the internet echo chamber and is still repeated as gospel.

        1. Very often corner cases of bugs don’t show up until a product is released to the masses. Something may only effect 2-3% of users (won’t be found in a lab but will lead to tons of complaints in the field). See the Samsung Superbrick fiasco that affected the Galaxy S2 and Galaxy Note family – Samsung was unable to reliably reproduce it in the lab despite knowing the root cause of the problem from post-failure analysis of a few devices, but any deployments of MMC secure erase in the field led to massive user complaints about unrecoverable hardbricks.

          So likely a number of the pros who have received early copies got them in exchange for providing Sony private feedback so they can do final polishing before release. (Effectively, they’re beta testers.)

    1. I agree with bakanecko but I’m still hoping to see some reviews soon. 3D Kraft’s report is very encouraging.

    2. The simple answer is don’t buy one until it has been reviewed. Unless people have got money to burn or have some immediate requirement, I can’t see what the rush is. Let other people find out the snags.

      1. I’m wether anxious (about the fact, that there is still no (pre-)review), nor will I not buying this camera in the future. But why preorder it, when I’ll can wait? I want from the beginning more pixels, silent shutter, BSI,… on my A7. But I can wait, because it is still a great camera.

      2. I want it for a trip. It’s not a requirement, it’s a “desirement.”

        Two possibilities given pre-order:
        1) It’s a lemon upon release, and I return it when I come home, no harm no foul.
        2) It’s good upon release, I happily use it on travel, and I keep it when I get home.

        One possibility given waiting for a host of reviews:
        1) I absolutely miss the opportunity to use it on said trip.

    3. I have a photographer friend who also working as a equipment reviewer

      he receive free cameras every once a while to try them out

      this is what he told me

      sony sets the release date of all reviews, tests all the way to August 5th or later. everyone who got the camera in advance signed a contract with sony for this

      so we need to wait till august 6th to see all the reviews

      1. This is nothing specially for “Testers”. All companies know those NDA’s (non-disclosure agreement).

        1. yes, and that might be the reason they set to that date, I ve heard all the photographers and test labs already had the review or test result on hand, they just can’t publish it

    4. Don’t buy from a vendor that doesn’t offer a 30-day return period. Be your own reviewer. Or wait for others to do it for you.

      1. I think DoA or failure out of the box is no problem.
        Here in GER we have the additional goody of 24 month limited warranty for failures occuring under normal operation.

        My understanding is that Sony is just securing best possible Sales numbers.
        There will be a lot of brand-bashers who will try to to “find” some “serious problems” and report it with loud drumrolls. Believe it or not, but this has impact on the Sales by early adopters.

  2. Sounds great! I love the prospect of using both fast leica mount lenses adapted, and fully functioning fast tele in my one Sony e mount cam well into the future 😀
    That new sensor has always clearly been the best new feature to me, of many brilliant new features all put together for the utility of one cam 🙂 This cam has all but complete highest quality stills functionality now doesn’t it? And I love the image quality of the new 90mm 2.8 G lens also.

      1. Real individuals are disappointed with this. I consider making my own business superior in most ways though problematic also in others, making your comment not just moot but further demonstration of above political argument.

          1. Keep attacking me and I advise all who can to stop you and they should.
            You are all the same and that’s not saying anything because that’s your politics. I advise them to stop being your friends at all.
            I hate your political gang and wish I never had anything even remotely to do with it, I didn’t really, so I simply live on with the implications you have made evident. I have made clear why I have nothing in common with you, and less so in future accordingly with your failure to recognize that fact, and by showing your interests supremacy at all times over mine and those close to me.
            Here’s a great example, all potential new friends etc: ‘Make of your life the better where you cannot for the cause for all others in similar situation’. That’s self interested, as I say theirs are absolutely politically or in effect evilly so. Simple.
            Intelligence is most critical. End of all relations.
            I was born in 1981, the same year Ansel Adams got awarded as being a master of photography, apparently. That’s great, I haven’t seen much photography and all I know is that I am in effect a master of it, and I have only just started. It has NOTHING to do with politics and less so the actions or in actions of those who now curtail the freedom of its best expression. I will never stop stating that fact where it is necessary, in the absence of much great photography it is necessary and for personal freedom now of course most importantly and for future prosperity. My opinion on this is very important, that’s why I state it.
            http://www.loc.gov/pictures/collection/manz/
            ‘For the first time, digital scans of both Adams’s original negatives and his photographic prints appear side by side allowing viewers to see Adams’s darkroom technique, in particular, how he cropped his prints.’

            digital file from original print:

            http://cdn.loc.gov/service/pnp/ppprs/00200/00246v.jpg

            digital file from original neg:

            http://www.loc.gov/pictures/resource/ppprs.00220/?co=manz

            There are tiff files too.

          2. No. Intelligence is a condition, wisdom is the virtue.

            Please could you demonstrate the latter by not illustrating your lack of the former through your ramblings?

          3. There you go, now you can leave my life and those in it alone for the love and peace of all humanity.

          4. Like having the police have you strip to show you are a man when you are in fact a woman now, and laugh. And presumably all those friends not stopping it happening again for personal trials and group homogeneity of nihilism. That’s one thing, but violation of body with deleterious chemicals is another and the risk of it being perpetual one of the worst, so in no uncertain terms go away. That’s 0.01% of police work, this is what was it? anyone with the technical statistical knowledge and no humanity in action? I don’t care and want rid of you all completely.

          5. Looks like he’s got delusional disorder (e.g. schizophrenia), NOT lack of intelligence. Those are only treated by medication.

          6. I’m sure you’re right, but it could be chemically induced.
            Quite sad really.

    1. I dont know where you get your shit, or what you are smoking, but that gotta be some some great stuff. You should consider makin a carrear writing a manuscript for “naked lunch 2″…

  3. Is the lack of a magenta shift the result of the new sensor architecture, esp the shallow pixel wellss?

  4. I think its because the BSI design, since the photodiodes moved to the upper layer, making it absorb more lights from wider angles

      1. The same f*** claimed, that the short-flange distance of mirrorless systems is a conceptual DRAWBACK compared to DSLRs (and there is conceptual NO WAY to fix this)

  5. They want to control the message as much as possible. No surprise there. While there’s no official reviews out other than the Brian Smiths of the world. I was on the fence until my equipment shop got their hands on one when the sony reps came by. They said it’s everything it’s being hyped to be…. So I gave them my money.

  6. There are basicly a couple of possible problems with wide angle rangefinder lenses. One is because of crosstalk which is because of thick pixel structure which causes smearing and colour cast. The other is the optical stack on top of the sensor which increases field curvature – the approx. 2mm stack on A7, A7II and A7r is problematic for some lenses (especially regarding bokeh quality) – as well as chromatic aberrations. Hopefully the optical stack is thinner as well, but I am not holding my breath.

  7. As part of Sony’s 11+7 bit compression magenta colored pixels have been injected into regions where there are none. This is done to break up the banding that would be more obvious without these false colors inserted into your photo. It’s another poor compromise by Sony.

    1. BS, since their compression algorithm would not, under any circumstances, inject pixels of colors that weren’t there.

    2. Sony 11+7 bit compression was used to photograph the staged landing on the moon, hides Chemtrails from images on behalf of “them” and causes AIDS, homosexuality und stupid trolling on Sony related websites.

    3. Probably the most ridiculous thing anybody has ever written about RAW compression. Of all the things to criticise, magenta coloured pixels? It’s not even as if there is such a thing. There are three colour channels (red, green and blue). Not one of them magenta. A magenta colour cast comes from a slight excess of R & B channel info and equally slight shortage of G info at the edge of the sensor as some of the light comes in at such an extreme angle on WA lenses of a “symmetrical” design that some of the photons leak “sideways” from one colour pixel to an adjacent one of a different colour chanel. The reason why this shows as a magenta cast is that (on a bayer pattern sensor) there are 2 G photosites for each R or B one. The result, sideways “light leakage” is asymmetric. It shows up as slight reduction in G channel information and a slight excess of R & B. Hence magenta, and precisely nothing whatsoever to do with RAW compression.

      1. Do you think you’re still a child and looking at a Triniton TV with a magnifying glass? Look at your photos up close. There are magenta pixels in the output where they have no place in existing. (not the sensor) You’d think that would be obvious.

        1. Look closely at your car door – that has as much validly as a photo to the notion Sony’s compression algorithm “injects” magenta pixels to somehow break up banding (when it would seem that would *enhance* banding).

          You might as well say that these yellow pixels were injected by the compression algorithm to break up the monotony of the white background.

          http://blogs.longwood.edu/fruitforbreakfast/files/2014/02/1620933872_1387163280.jpg

          You have a valid complaint with Sony advertising 14-bit output when they don’t record it, but your strange obsession with blaming everything you don’t expect to see on 11+7 just makes you seem silly.

          1. Just be happy Sony is supplying Nikon with image sensors, otherwise they would be out of business by now.

          2. Without the Sony sensors, Nikon’s full frame cameras would be mediocre at best. Canon would have easily overwhelmed them in the market place. The Sony sensor is the only thing that keeps Nikon competitive.

          3. Sony obviously supplies Nikon great sensors, but the notion that, if Sony withheld, a company like Mitsubishi couldn’t find a slightly less compelling fab house to make Full Frame sensor (think a scaled-up D7100) I find ludicrous.

            Either way, doesn’t really matter.

        2. There are NO magenta pixels on a TV screen. The only colour pixels on a TV screen are red, green or blue. They are called the additive primaries and correspond to the three colour receptors in a human eye. (Some animals, like birds, have four or even five different colour receptors).

          Painters talk about different primaries, but they are subtractive as paint only absorbs light. It’s also why the inks you find in a 3 colour inkjet are yellow (which absorbs B and allows through G & R), magenta (which absorbs G) and cyan (which absorbs red). Often these three subtractive primary inks are supplemented by one, two or even three as colour printers have trouble producing the full colour gamut without them.

          Basically, you haven’t got the slightest notion what you are talking about. There are no magenta pixels in a digital camera, nor are there magenta pixels on a TV.

          Please don’t try and play with the big boys who’ve got degrees in physics. You will simply get burnt and look an even bigger fool.

          1. You’re raising stupidity to a new bar. You probably don’t even know what a Triniton screen is yet alone looks like. Do you even read English ?

          2. Trinitron screens we CRT screens which use wires to shift the cathode rays to hit the right colour phosphor. If you hit the TV hard, then the vibration in the wires could make patterns. “Traditional” colour tubes used shadow masks and three aligned “guns” (cathodes) to illuminate one of the three colour phosphor dots.

            Again, what point are you trying to make. TVs and cameras do not produce magenta pixels. To produce magenta it requires (adjacent) R & B pixels. Apart, that is from Foveon (on the sensor side) as that senses all the colour channels at the same point by using the differential penetration characteristic of different energy photons (longer wavelength – that is lower energy photons – can penetrate further).

            But even Foveon doesn’t produce “magenta” pixels. It just produces three colour channels with relatively poor colour separation.

          3. Just a quick correction. Trinitron’s used an aperture grill, not simple wires although the latter were used to stabilise the aperture grill.

          4. Magenta pixels. Bwahahahahahahahahah!

            That’s just a dead tooth fairy that somehow got squashed on the sensor

          5. From an expert and trained eye and not some noob that just bought their 1st crappy 11+7 camera and processing on a non-wide gamut screen from Best Buy.

            http://blog.mingthein.com/2015/01/19/review-sony-a7-mark-ii/

            Update, 21 Jan: I have been challenged
            repeatedly on the file compression/ banding/ usable DR issue. Yes,
            everything looks good at web sizes, but then again you’re also
            oversampling by a factor of 20 or so, so deficiencies get averaged out. Here’s a 100% crop of an affected file (‘Skyline reflection’, from above) –
            this is an ideal exposure scenario; base ISO on a tripod and sufficient
            light. And there’s pretty clear purple/magenta banding/posterization in
            the sky, up to RGB luminance level 50+, which is visible in print and almost impossible to post process out. The D810 under similar conditions does not show this, and the D750’s response is identical. Neither file has noise reduction or exposure adjustment
            applied in ACR. It is NOT necessarily an issue for all types of
            photography, but as they say – you pay your money and take your chances.

          6. Those who don’t need it or don’t know when they would need it will never see it a problem.

          7. There is something at the root of resistance in the way Sony fanboys
            adhere to the crappy 11+7 color and blurry photos produced by the Sony mirrorless cameras. (Full disclosure: I was once one also)

            Other than the FE55 the Sony e-mount lenses have universally been a
            let down to any discerning set of eyes. The astigmatism of the Sony
            sensor cause a reliable 19-20% less resolution with same lens testing
            (throughout this blog). The corruption of Sony’s cRAW (falsely marketed as 14 bit by Sony but actually amounting to 11+7 bits) causes banding and posterization and bizarre artifacts. Yet Sony fanboys stick to their cameras. Defend them in forums and attack any Sony fact checker as a troll.

            There had to be psychology behind it. A lot of psychology.

            It’s not in the DSM yet but it probably should be. The quickest cure
            for Sony fanboy fanaticism is to visit a Nikon shop or visit a friend
            with a Nikon that know how to use the camera and do a side by side
            comparison.

            The change to Nikon can be costly but it’s way cheaper than going to
            Vienna and having a team work on you day and night while you use your free time taking photos in the Belvedere gardens.

            http://lifehacker.com/the-psychology-of-a-fanboy-why-you-keep-buying-the-sam-1300451596

            http://youarenotsosmart.com/2010/05/19/fanboyism-and-brand-loyalty/

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-purchase_rationalization

          8. I just sold off my A7 so I’m on your side. But basically many people who are into Sony would only look at spec list. Many don’t have much idea about anything beyond specs, especially those subtle differences.

          9. Bla bla bla. I still own a shelf full of top Nikon gear from D810 to 14-24 to 200/2 and more, I just have to grab it. But my Sony gear ist much more enjoyable to use in 90% of the time, the glass that I use just as good and the IQ is 99% the same. Why don’t you just fc*k off and enjoy your Nikon gear? Everybody here knows about Sony compression.

    4. What?! Sony uses “lossy” compression? Everyone! Sell your Sony gear and buy into Nikon’s system. It coudl literally change your life. Look at what it did to Senor NIKON vsCANONvsMYSELFvsTHEWORLD

  8. it’s just me or there is a cyan colorshift?

    >WATE
    which is retrofocus zoom, so it doesn’t matter for the subject
    > It also looked like the borders were less blurred compared to the sample from the A7S.

    of course, since A7rm2 doesn’t have AA filter

    1. The vague recommendation you could (and still can) read on many sites were, that wide angle lenses with Leica M mount shorter than 35mm focal length can not be used on A7 series. The WATE was just one example for an M-mount lens working good on A7. So it mattered for that subject. I never asserted that the WATE is not retrofocus – but it has Leica M-mount and so proved the vague statements wrong. A more precise finding was that symmetrically designed wide angle lenses caused problems and that’s what also the article is talking about.

      An AA filter does not add blur to borders only.

      1. Thank you for sharing and doing the test. However, I think it would be helpful if you guys zoomed in to really check for the smearing. FYI, if you set the camera in JPEG mode, you can easily zoom in without having a card. Less blurred doesn’t tell us much. I have my cam modded with the Kolari filter, but the G 21 still can’t be used at WO, while the Elmar 24 is perfect at WO. So it’s all relative.

      2. I am sorry, I know too little about AA filters but I think designing AA filter which adds blur uniformly across the frame (i.e. at all exit pupil distances) would be a difficult task.

    2. Magenta shift often appears when the camera can’t cope well with the steep ray angle (on A7 and II and A7R). Cyan shift, on the other hand, appears on camera that handles the steep ray angle better; the severity is less and most of the time you can’t even see it. On my A7s, most of the UWA/WA shows very mild cyan shift (up to G 21). G 16 is the worst offender that even the A7s can’t cope, and hence you see magenta shift. It shows that this A7RII is a step above the a7S and two steps above others.

      Smeared edges and corners are due to the filter stack thickness difference. These lenses were designed for film with zero stack thickness (or the recent Leica with 0.8mm thickness). A thicker stack would induce more astigmatism (smearing) and severe field curvature (i.e. when you focus for the corners the center is out of focus and vice versa). So though the WATE is more retrofocus than most RF UWA/WA, a thinner stack would still help with some residual smearing in the corners. In my experience, even a 90mm lens designed for film can see minor improvement in the corners.

  9. And another terrorist attack on SAR happened today, 17:00h CET.
    Chief suspect illuminatedObserver is still demanding to be left alone, both his personal life and photographic mastery.
    Attacks will continue until he is granted personal freedom in his politics, right to have privacy while showering, reckognizable thought patterns, judgemental attitude at 14bit lossles autofocus as none could ever reproduce more offsprings on a diet and deliberately gazing in octogonal direction up front front below up sideways.

    1. He makes as much sense as half the people on here, IMO. Though, if he does indeed live in the U.K., I think he already has a right to all those things. Minus the octagonal bit, perhaps.

      1. Ummm, no. He makes no sense whatsoever.
        In addition to his lack of ability to say anything meaningful, he is heavily illiterate troll also. He has tremendous difficulties with interpunction and arranging the words in sentence, which makes his already mundane texts even more tedious to read.
        Your comparison of Dostoevsky to him is beyond my comprehension.
        Even if he had any analytical talent, the fact that he is posting essays on a tech rumor site indicates at least a mild mental disorder.

        1. I don’t think he’s delusional….just a bored teenager who has never had a life or girlfriend. He is just copying and pasting randomly in a cry for attention.

        2. Lighten up bra. Literally half of the posts on SAR are fueled by ignorance, speculation, misinformation and/or wishful thinking.

          Are these any more helpful than what IO posts? Arguably, they are more damaging because they just fuel the storm of confusion that seems to keep people in such a riled up state of anger around here.

          The easiest post to *not* read is the 5 page long rant. Little sh_t stains that people like Mr. NIKONvsSONY leaves are the worst.

  10. Totally off topic, but we need some more small primes and zooms from Sony (AF). I was thinking about the Zeiss 24-70- but the reviews are actually quite bad. Add to that busy bokeh along with only 7 blades?? for over 1k?? What were they thinking.

    So I said to myself, let me check out that 35mm 2.8. Corners don’t look all that impressive and again- I expect 9 blades out of my Zeiss. It makes a difference stopped down. Sure enough, the reviews say the bokeh is busy at around 5.6.

    Now I’m not dogging the 35mm 2.8 because it is actually quite good. You get that Zeiss contrast and colors, but I’m feeling short changed with these Zeiss options. No way getting around the big purchases here folks. I guess I’ll have to look elsewhere for my 35 needs.

  11. I’m a photographer, a master photographer, I have a 24mm lens and a shot I took on saturday I fixed on sunday in processing, for colour shift I had never even seen before. This news is relevant to me for the reasons cited above, as for politicals who ruined another day, and with uncommon effect in fact today after yesterday I had been sorting a lot out brilliantly myself, the ruination itself being a lot of which, if not, the majority they caused and cause.

    1. I mean this truly as a compliment: I get a Dostoevskianschizomaniacal vibe from your posts. It’d take me days to craft something half as creative. I hope you get your hands on the a7R mk II and it allows you to tap into your powers.

      No, I don’t like politics.

      1. Nothing can be done, because security agencies would do anything legal or otherwise to have them on side to answer, could a ten year old hacker fail to use java code and playground politics to defeat our security supplied by someone similar?
        You’ve all seen what they are doing and know something of what else.
        Do you like politics?
        Indian parent? was a guy, now a woman, micro penis and bad involvement with police around matter of drugs and otherwise, totnes. Charley, market totnes and drugs selling. Record shop owners laura and john one woman mixed race, or that is the guy now woman and partner, or made up names. Curious people to become a threat because they were never invited, because charley was never invited and because none of what they are doing is in my interests, they do it for their own, political or otherwise. They know I don’t accept such threat so it was perhaps a mistake, they are influenced by others in grouping or this is what they consider to be right, to put their interests before mine even as mine are lost altogether.

          1. I have told you to go away and leave my life alone and that goes for the photography I am involved with, my work and life. You threaten me and not the other way round. We are seeing what people like you will do for your politics and its the most unpleasant thing short of what you threaten to do further. You have made absolutely negative all of that, and I was something of a friend at least, one who asked nothing of you and did so in an honest and effectively last attempt now pointless. I did not ask for the others or extraneous influence, go now. These are warnings, and I am the one threatened. If I can’t trust you no one can. You do this for political gain so go now before everybody sees that as only negative for all, most of all me. Pit your politics against someones real life, someone with a vulnerable life you know absolutely all about- which as you know is not in itself even a vulnerability for me- see how you are the ones now most clearly offending anyway. there will be a switch and it starts with the interests you threaten in my life. you already crossed the line.
            What now? torture? tad ironic seeing as I’m telling everyone how to shoot well aside from you. Photography IS difficult, i’m just very good at it. We have seen what you represent, and its nothing to do with photography, and what it is in fact, I have made clear to everybody.
            Your politics don’t even exist outside of your wrong actions and what’s more the history even where they do, is surely as proving of that falseness going by what you are doing and the nihilistic, fatalistic causelessness inherent. Regards the wrong actions and potential threat, go away.

    2. The frontal lobe of ur brain is badly damaged n it’s spitting out whatever without filters. Too bad u can’t comprehend ur own damaged brain. There are rare cases of people who showed previously unrealized talents after brain injury, but that’s not ur case as ur thoughts are disorganized and can’t express urself. A picture is worth a thousand words, so post ur master pieces to prove that u know how to use a camera and stfu.

    1. This is an issue with certain adapted lenses (some rf lenses in particular) not e-mount or adapted a-mount lenses.

      1. e-mount 16/2.8 and 10-18/4 do give colorshift on NEX-7, and so is Samyang 8/2.8 (old version)

    1. There are fanboys who want Sony sensors have no colorshift even if they don’t have M lenses 😀

  12. Quick and dirty conversion in LRCC. -4 highlights, +4 shadows, -57 whites, -.72 exposure (to match the original), and -43 blacks for a little punch. Damn that 11+7 purple.

    Credit to Robert98 @ dpreview

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