Our reader Joe (Thanks!) sent us the link to the newly published detailed Sony electronics presentation: sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/info/irday2015electronics_presenE.pdf. Here are the key info:
1) Sony is selling less fixed lens cameras but selling more system cameras and high end fixed lens cameras
2) The earnings volume is slightly dropping but the profit is growing
3) Sony forecasts an increase of both Interchangeable camera and lens sales.
4) Focus is on premium products. Expansion of the professional camera product lineup (Alpha Cameras and Lenses and premium fixed lens cameras).
5) Apply high-end tech in consumer models
6) Establish an Ecosystem of strong differentiated products centered around the Alpha System
7) Focus on 4K, High Frame rate and wide color Gamut technology
8) there will be 20 FE lenses by early 2016
9) One of the competitive advantages of the Alpha Lenses is word’s highest resolution. Editor’s note: Sounds like they are ready for the 50+MP camera 🙂
10) Reading all files it’s clear that Sony will focus on “Alpha” system in the sense of E-mount and not A-mount (that’s my interpretation).
11) Sony has 60% of the mirrorless system camera market.
In Summary: Sony will push the E-mount system, launch plenty of high end products (A7 and maybe a future A9 series) with world leading innovations. Focus is on High resolution, High ISO, High Speed and 4K technologies. Also likely to be pushed is the RX system while there is no word in those documents what’s going to happen with A-mount.
What are you first impressions about Sony’s strategy?
271 Responses
i’m expecting 300+ whining and grumbling comments next 10 hours here.
let’s the whining starts now! 🙂
Damitt Sony no A-mount! Yea I’m the first whiner on your tally list!
8 new FE lenses next 8 months… this sounds very good.
The a7r ii looks further off each day.
Eight additional FE lenses while the total number of lenses should only increase with seven? Which APS-C lenses are they going to remove?
It says “over 20” and “over 70”. I interpret it as “we’ll do our best, but promise nothing”. Let Sony strive for quality over quantity.
Ah, it does. I need more coffee.
So nothing firm yet on the RX100 series?
A-mount is not dead…but smells funny…
is dead long ago, hence for the “funny” smell
I hope it’s not 6 kit zooms and 2 35mm primes.
LOL
Let’s be realistic and start accepting the fact that the old Minolta mount will be buried in the near future. Let’s be glad that some support is maintained in the form of the LEA-adapters (I will buy a second one soon, I’ve got too much really outstanding glassware). These are interesting times!
The presentation is talking about “alpha mount” – meaning both E mount and A mount.
Except of the FE lenses I can see no explicit references to the E mount.
Therefore, there is no reason to worry about A mount.
I do not see any A vs E mount discussion. Alpha system is A+E mount and developing it means both. There are lenses which are unique to A mount and I doubt Sony will release them in E mount like the 300/2.8, 500/4, 70-400, 1.8/135 etc. A77m2 is a very nice modern camera and there is not reason to ditch it – it does well what it does at great price. I may as well buy one.
I can see a 135mm coming, but the implication from Sony is that longer telephotos on e-mount are causing them headaches…
Alpha mount means for them means e-mount for us. “Ecosystem of strong products centered around single mount system”. E-mount big on the picture. E-mount is also used in video, which is very important to Sony, much more than to us here.
Don’t get hung about about Sony writing a mount all over the place. It means alpha mount to them, which they equal to e-mount.
Page 22 it says for the FS7: a[lpha] Mount System (E-mount)
Most Sony managers might not even know they have an a-mount. Of course, they still count them, as in (FE lens line up vs Total lens line up. But the a-mount lens line up will even decrease: 63 vs 12 in 2015 and 70 vs 20 in 2016, you do the math yourself.
Another interesting note. Sony makes more revenue (and increasing) with still camera bodies than with lenses. Sony also makes more money with still camera than with video, but that is also narrowing.
Ah, over 70, that means, A-mount lens count is supposed to stay fixed.
A few months ago, I heard we would never see a 35/1.4 for e-mount.
The larger lenses are just starting to come, and they will continue. Just got 85 and 90mm. Not saying they will duplicate every existing a-mount lens, but they will certainly cover most of them. What will the next 8+ lenses be?
I constantly get confused about “α”(Alpha) mount and A-mount. Classic marketing fail.
It is confusing but A mount came first & was called alpha. When E mount was also called alpha, that is when the confusion began. In hindsight Epsilon would have been better for E.
Sony make these mistakes often & I wonder how such a big company can make these child-like errors, with apparently no thought. Then I realise that this is entirely the fault of marketing managers & bosses sticking their nose into creative areas & making a mess of it.
More likely that this has always been done on purpose. First it was done to carry some Alpha brand recognition over to NEX. Then to blur the line between product lines to pretend it’s one big happy product line, comparable in size with CN offering. Now to slowly fade A-mount away.
Exactly.
not confusing at all. Alpha is a system, not a mount……. the nex and a7X all have the Alpha sign on them….. A + E = alpha
It is confusing. I sold a lot of A mount lenses and I almost closed a deal with two people using E mount cameras. They assumed E mount had a lot of lenses available so they were disappointed that it would need a very expensive adapter just to get some rudimentary AF with those lenses.
Alpha is a system, not a mlunt, but Sony’s calling it a alpha mount. Epic fail.
What is A-mount? havent heard of it…
Marketing fail, yes. Confusion Success, yes. They hope soccer moms go to BestBuy to buy their husband a lens for their A-Mount body and hope they don’t bring it back when it don’t fit, lol
The best thing sony can do is somehow make a dual mount camera and just make different size bodies.
Yes… but they weren’t so smart to design E-mount such way so it would be easy
What, you mean with a legacy DSLR flange distance and mechanical aperture lever?
no, I mean with same throat diameter so (high-end) dual mount camera could accept lenses from both mounts with Z-shift to accommodate flange distance whereas cheaper cameras accept only one type of lenses
Not much new here.
Yes, same square triangle.
LOL!
The first slide says it all — a “single mount” system. They intend to unite behind a single mount. It’s right there in black and white.
Not so sure – the total lenses figure includes a-mount…
Clearly, they are expecting legacy A-mount users to use an adapter with their future E-mount bodies. If Sony chooses to stick to only a “single mount” then this is the only possible direction.
Sony wants you to buy the new E-mount lenses. If you keep using your old A-mount lenses, no money will be made.
Yes… In order to create an appearance of a full lens lineup that can rival CaNikon.
Notice they are only adding FE lenses.
Yes, it does. And if you do the math, it says one new A-mount lens in 2016. One.
Where does it even suggest one lens? The word “over” is pretty ambiguous.
63 – 12 = 51 A-mount lenses
Over 70 – over 20 = ?? A-mount lenses. 51?
Oops, you’re right. You can’t quite calculate it out the way they’ve stated it. But I’ll stick with my guess: one new A-mount lens left (that doesn’t mean there can’t be updates).
Previous rumours have suggested Sony have no prototypes for new A-mount designs, so I think updates might be the absolute best anybody can hope for.
Indeed. “… centered around single mount system…” with an E-mount picture on top says it pretty clear.
Yeah, I think there will be no more new A mount bodies by the end of 2016 🙁 (But still hope for a A99II 😀 )
As this is a management presentation, and not a consumer information, the single mount could ba an honnest mistake, do you know for what the “S” stands in DSLR? Tight Single, Digital Single Lens Reflex. So they could have meant that it was a mount for a single lens camera.
Do I think the A-mount is diead? Well not at this moment, but I do think it will slowly goes up in the mirrorless system, maybe a mirrorless system with an A- instead of an E- mount, or in a mirrorless system that work with a good adapter.
lots of ‘blablabla’ and zero data. what about global shutter? what about S series for crops? what about stabs for crops? what about e-mount in dslr sized body? what about a7s2? ..
to be honest, currently i’ve no idea what sony will come up with. and i’ve no idea if i need to wait or to buy now. i dislike the cameras available right now, and buying something now would mean a big compromise for me. ideally i would need a dslr sized e-mount tuned for sensitivity with a great evf, stab and a big strong battery. preferably a crop, but FF can work too. however i suppose that to get that i will need to wait like 5 years, so i need to buy sth now and with these “marketing secrets” i’ve no idea when to invest my money :(.
I guess this is as detailed you will get it in a kind of corporate segment strategy. The full specifications will be shown as products in coming anouncements
Maybe following metapher applies to Sony:
They are professionally working with both hands and their eyes – the right one doesn’t know what the left one is doing and their eyes don’t see it.
🙂
Thank goodness. It’s about time Sony officially writes they will indefinitely focus on E mount and let the A mount die a long, slow death. It is the only sustainable strategy to follow and will serve its users better in the end.
I’d really like to refuse that. They’ve mentioned a really good quality 50mm prime, several high-end telezooms and updated the 16-35 and 24-70 zooms. Not to mention the A77ii, which is a really good camera. Apart from tele-zooms, all of these have their E-Mount counterparts so it makes no sense for Sony to release them, if they’re not intending to keep the A-Mount alive.
I hope they release a worth update to A99 soon.
Again, according to that presentation, there will be one new A-mount lens in 2016. One.
Where does it say that?
It doesn’t.
It could be -1.
2015:
a mount lens lineup = total lens lineup – FE lens lineup = 63 – 12 = 51
2016:
a mount lens lineup = (70 + 1) – (20 + 1) = 50
50 – 51 = -1
The only thing they need to do is to create a adapter with 70% coverage and either using the camera E mount AF or create something with the translucid mirror but with more and with a wider spread of AF points.. Also, having a possibility of a grip for A6000 / A7000 that is not created by china 3rd party developers is also a good idea.. That will resolve a huge problem, that is decent AF with the current adapters..
YES! this is great news! A final nail in the coffin, i will piss on the A-mount grave, long live E-mount. Haters gonna hate
Ok, then I go to real photography system, Nikon.
if you want *real photography system* check Canon 😉
canon is good for one thing and that is sports…..
Maybe when Canon learn how to make real sensors. Or when the Canon start using Sony sensors.
A system that enables real photography, or a real system that enables photography?
“Nothing unreal exists” – Spock
Sorry to upset you, but Spock never existed…
good luck with that, order a sherpa too with it to carry it for you :p
Glad to see you take joy seeing other people in trouble.
Im glad you are glad 🙂
You are very fickle ! First you get joy from other peoples unhappiness and now you get joy from other people’s joy ? Make up your mind !
I am a joyful person 🙂
Yes, you and yours are going to hate.
Kinda funny, but kind of cold too. Lots of people have hard-earned money invested in that system. And the only way to get decent lens prices for FE mount is to buy an adapter and use A mount lenses from third party.
Not really, they called it alpha mount, not e-mount. A mount is needed, or Sony can’t offer the 70+ lenses for its system (some also needed for video). It is clear most new resources are put into e-mount, but it is also clear, a-mount is staying in the picture for some years to come.
8 new lenses?
Hoping for: 135 f/2.5, tilt-shift 24mm, 20mmf/2.8, FE14mm, FE 70-300mm f4.5-5.6, FE 300mm f/4, FE400 f/5.6, ?????
Zeiss can then take their sweet time filling up those juicy batis primes & full manual wide angle loxias. *wallet cringes in fear*
24-105 please!
Why would you want a supertele on such a small camera? Thats where A-mount is better. Also instead of T/S I would rather have a really special lens, like a STF but with autofocus this time (contrast AF should work).
No, it is not. Supertele is most often on tripod. And even if not, you still save 0.5 kg with E-mount on such setup. And you never hold the whole weight on camera grip.
On the other hand, if that 135 f/2.5 is the new E-mount STF, I would be sold for lifetime.
Who cares how small the camera is ? You don’t hold a DSLR by just the body with a supertele lens, what difference would it make on an E-mount ? E-mount is great because you don’t have to use or take a super telephoto lens with you if you don’t want to, and then you have a compact size kit, but it’s nice to have the option. E/FE mount needs 300mm+ native lenses to have a balanced lens selection. They lost some of my money because of the lack of lens choices and now I have Nikon gear in addition to Sony gear.
I’d rather see both. The shorter flange distance should offer more flexibility when designing wide angle T/S lenses but I too would love to see a AF STF lens.
Notice please FE camera at the bottom of the triagle among consumer products. SONY knows it is not professional grade system yet.
I suppose you didn’t even bother to actually look in the linked pdf?
Slide 42 in the presentation:
Percentage of A7S purchasers who are pro/prosumers.
US 52%
EU 55%
Yes, but he’s right. That camera should not be there in that picture…
No, it might have been better placed in between consumer and pro, because the A7x cameras can be both.
You are right, but when you look at the higer end cameras in the picture, that is not the place where the A7 belongs too. It is just a presentation you see, you don’t hear the things that were tolb along with it.
“Sony will push the E-mount system”
Fine, but even that system is a two-headed horse for Sony: FF and APS-C. Judging from the slides it seems to me more correct that Sony will push the FF E-mount system.
If that’s the case than most major systems are two-headed horses. Canon, Nikon, etc both support FF and APS-C. So, you’re complaining because Sony isn’t APS-C and limiting itself like Fuji, Samsung, etc with only one sensor.
Sony is APS-C as well and I do not see them abandoning that sensor format any time soon, however: they do seem to be pushing FF more than APS-C in the last year and judging from those slides in this and the next year as well.
I completely agree with you. Nor do I like the current cameras. I just want one A77 with good performance at high ISOs. Nothing more !!! Is it so difficult?
I do not need 500 points of focus; I do not need focusing at Mach 3. Neither minicameras without ergonomics.
I only ask I can take pictures in low light, with current A77’s flexible screen. With current A77’s ergonomics. With current size of the A77. With current lenses that now I have for my A77.
My A77 has 135,000 shots. I’ll buy another second-hand A77 🙁
What’s wrong with the a772 ?
I-S-O!!!!
I can honestly tell you that
A77ii is a huge improvement compare to A77
I have both, I preorder the A77 since it first available.
and my A77ii have over 400k shot already.
That’s what canon users said about 7DM2 compared to 7D. Crap better than old crap is still crap.
The A mount is in a death spiral and there is nothing Sony can do to stop it.
Yes it is, but do you think Sony want to stop it? I think it is quite deliberate.
It’s admirable the level of support its still getting from Sony. They still haven’t discontinued any mount at all.
Admiral and support are two words that can’t be put in a sentence with Sony. Their standard line for any customer complaint is “that’s normal.”
I’m sure it is not deliberate, it was hard to compete with Canon and Nikon in that market and when the market colapsed it was overr and out for Sony… Look at Pentax, they have no real mirrorless system and their DSLR ,arket is going down the drain too.
Sony was wise and starte a serious mirrorless system, a system Canon, Nikon and even Panassonic and Olympus can only dream of….
And the Sony mirrorless system (e-mount, lenses, AF system) is shared with video, where Sony is number one in the market.
The reasion it’s in a death spiral is because of Sony’s choice and derisions… there is allot they can do to stop it but they chose not to do any thing… I just wish they made some announcement saying it’s going to be EOL over the next say 3-5 years and they will be focusing on E-Mount so all of us with heavy A Mount investments can move on and get on with it rather than holding on and on ‘hoping’ Sony will eventually pull there finger out and do something…
There’s no question Sony is aggressively pushing E-mount, particularly on the full frame front, but I’m still confident we will see pro-worthy A-mount body before the end of the year worthy of the two updated Zeiss A-mount lenses that haven’t even shipped yet.
I wouldn’t hold my breath, but if they do it will likely be the last A-mount camera to be released.
Yep. E-mount bodies still ergonomically don’t catch up with a-mount bodies. I honestly don’t care what it’s called, I just want to be able to use my a-mount lenses on a good body. 24 or 36 MP, 3 or 10 fps, HD or 4k, good at iso 3200 or even 320.000, I DON’T CARE. I just want to spend some money on a body that can carry my lens system.
The first add lide says ” intrchangeable lens mount system ” rather than interchangeable lens system as it states elsewhere in the presentation.
I am hopefull that this will be inclusive of fully funtional autofocus on non Sony lenses.
Since the vast majority of Sony’s target market are currently using Canon or Nikon systems such a move will make transition easier.
If thier claims that Sony has the highest resolution lenses are true than people would presumably want to voluntarily begin buying native E mount Sony lenses without being forced to do so for compatability reasons.
Universal compatability will make E mount a much strongersystem.
I certainly hope Sony realizes and institutes it.
Just for clarification…I include high speed autofocus ability in my definition of compatability.
Saying the same thing over and over again don’t make it happen Barry! Besides the technical difficulties that must be solved (like AF protocals, electronic connections, etc.) there will be some legal problems too. Canon will not without fight let Sony use their lens mount system, and the same goes for Nikon. When Sony should come with an adapter that can do that what you want, then the lawsuits will start, ig and ugly lawsuits…
Telling me not to say what I choose to say over and over again also wont make it happen.
Of course there are technical issues to solve ….but there are ways to make on mirrorless focus compatable with dslr lenses, and electronic protocalls can easily be translated with in adapter chips..
As for legal issues…if as expected..Canon will not license Sony…the legal issues should still be overcomable.
First…patents on existing Canon and Nikon mounts have long ago expired.
Secondly 3rd party manufacturers currently make lots of accessories and even lenses for yhese mounts, many are simply reverse engineered. ..even if Sony does not make the adapters themselves 3rd partys can be ” encouraged” to do so.
Finally…this would add value to everyones ilc systems at a time when the camera industry desperately needs to encourage people to use high end cameras rather than place compatability obstacles in the way.
You should be supporting a necessary and highly beneficial…to consumers…change like this rather than defending the status quo that hurts consumers and requires huge unnecessary expenses and aggrevation because nothing works with anything else.
Are you a Canon shareholder, a Nikon shareholder, a Sony shareholder, or a consumer?
If you are a consumer you should be on my side…these companies can do a fine job of only concentrating on thier own self interest without your help.
As for repeating myself…that always has been and always will be the only way to get a message noticed.
First: Yes technical problems can be solved, but look at Canon, they created the EOS-M, with an adapter for their lenses, that adapter with their own technology did not focus as fast with their own lenses as those lenses did on their original mounts. There is a big technological problem to solve. Maybe solvable, but it will cost a lot of engineering and….
…Then there is the legal problem. You tell that they can be overcomable, but are they? Canon will not license Sony, so when Sony will try to make a product like you propose, large lawsuits will start costing Sony hands full of money big losses will come out of that, so there will be less money to develop lenses cameras and accessories for our cameras, so what will we gain in the end?
You tell that the patents on the lensmounts have expired, and you are probably right, but the mount has evolved in the years, things have changed, things that are under new patents, So not realy good news for the custommer.
Would it be nice to have an universal mount camera? Oh yes! But will it happen? Well No! Will it be as good as you think it must be to be universal? Hack NO! Problem with universal is that you must translate protocals and so on, slowing down things in the end.
The perfect world will never come. The only way to get an universal mount is when all camera brands come to gether and develop a new mount for a new system and they would all work together on that mount, creating lenses for that mount, highend lenses, mid end and entry level lenses. That is the way we could enjoy a universal ount. That is a mount that I can support, but until then we have to deal with the reality out there, and that reality is that the different systems have different mounts and so different lenses….
@Nevercat: you are right – the perfect world of barry never will come – you genius explained why.
And Nevercat: please promise me you don’t buy one of this adapters when it is available while the rest of us is happy to use it.
screw driven lenses don’t need protocols… and yet adaptors don’t exist.
Meanwhile, in this part of universe, there will be no native universal compatibility (by your definition) with lenses from other systems. Flying pigs and unicorns farting rainbows are more likely.
And in this part of the universe there will be no higher resolution
3mp is enough, 8mp is enough, 12mp is enough, 24mp is enough, 36mp is enough, 50mp is enough.
No IBIS on E mount
No 4k
No 8k
None of this will ever happen, it is all impossible…at least it is if we listen to those like you.
This is just a small list ..and includes only innovations I have been repetitively pushing for since I first began posting on SAR
And I have continually been dealing with cynics like you, lots of them.
Apples and oranges – it has nothing to do with technology and it’s advancement. It has everything to do with business and legal issues, however.
Don’t get me wrong, I would love to live in an open world where every product from every manufacturer is inter-operable with each other, where interface specifications are publicly available and royalty free. And for many businesses this is actually starting to happen (especially IT), but it will be a while more before camera manufacturers widely adopt that thinking. m4/3 is more of an exception in the interchangeable camera world which is historically dominated by two competitive, protective and entrenched players.
The things you mention above are simply progress – they were always going to happen.
What you are asking for, universal capatibility, will not happen. It isn’t in Sony’s or Canon’s interest.
It’s not Canon’s interest that Sigmaron makes AF-lenses for Canon.
It’s neither Sony’s nor Canon’s interest, that metabones is making AF-adapters.
Sigmaron has succeeded, making AF fast, already.
It is a matter of time when metabones or others succeeds to make a fast adapter.
It is a completely different thing to make a lens native to a mount by reverse enginering, it is a complete different thing to make an adapter from one mount to an other and make it fast. Or can you show me one mount adapter (from e- to any other mount that have fast AF (besides the Sony Solution with the LA_EA2/4)?
That is the classic stupid man argument: “…can you show me… (something existing)…” I bet brothers wright heard the same before their plane left the ground.
Of course I can NOT show you something that is not yet on the market, but I can give you a preview of what’s possible. (Yes – you need to have an IQ>80 to imagine this for E-mount instead)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=40&v=jIFwXztcOzA
BTW: if Sony comes with a sensor Z-shift AF solution to get rid of lawsuits – PLEEEEASE promise me to insist it should be impossible and PLEEEEASE do not use products like that.
This too is simply progress.
As the dedicated few opt for
INTERCHANGEABLE LENS CAMERAS
Everyone else is moving towards cellphone point and shoot or some other easyier option.
Consumers will become increasingly frustrated with wasting thoughsands of dollars becase things do not work together.
In the early days of railroads, every line had thier own standards..differrent guages, differrent couplers, differrent brakes…the public got so sick and tired having to put up with all the extra expense, inconvenience , and danger…just so railroads could make more money by keeping everything proprietary….the railroads were forced to change.
TV makers each had differrent systems…now HD, 4k and 8k are standards.
In more and more industries consumers have demanded and got standards.
When I talked about these things you describe as progress ..they were going to happen…but when I spoke about them years ago you yourself were one of my most persistant critics.
Everything I said then was impossible, never going to happen, and I was crazy for talking about them. Now they are progress and were always going to happen…these are your very own comments!
Standards and compatability are progress and are going to happen.
That is the one part of your comment I agree with…you may not have said those exact words with that exact meaning yet, but after it happens you will use those words just as if you had been saying them all along.
Sort of like…no…exactly like you are doing now.
Please point me to where I said any of those things you mentioned above would not happen.
I agree with you about the naysayers. But regarding the universal lens mount with fully funtional autofocus on non Sony lenses, it is indeed more likely that flying pigs and unicorns farting rainbows. By a wide margin. Sorry, but in this case, Jekabs’ comment is not what I call cynical.
So, I’m guessing you missed out on the deal and you’re bitter..
It says “>>a<< interchangeable lens mount system", "a" as in alpha. Not a, not e, not EOS mount, not F mount. Alpha. And on another slide, that seems to be for a few FE lenses and 50+ other lenses (a-mount), not hundreds of interchangable Canon EOS or Nikon F mount lenses.
2.8 zooms
Sony+Sony zeiss primes 21-28-35-50-85-135
Good News!
You are aware how huge a 2.8 Zoom is on an e-Mount camera, yes? I find it rather “yesterdays” how everybody thinks “only 2.8 zoom is ok”.
I do not find it very tomorrow to insist that nobody needs that extra stop of light, and more importantly DoF. Both the F2.8 and F4 zooms have their place and use.
You will have have hard time convincing wedding photographers that they no longer need those F2.8 zooms which are often used wide open.
Wrong direction. Short range f/2 zooms. 35-50/2 and 85-135/2. Sony has to be different. The standard zooms are hard, because the physics behind long focal lengths (24-70 and 70-200) necessitate f/4. If you don’t care about the sheer size, use a-mount. But standard f/2.8 zooms have to come with bigger bodies.
More “high end” stuff, huh? Maybe they will give us a 50mm f2.8 to match that 35mm turtle, charge us $800, and tell us that the liquid running down our backs is rain. However, I guess it is working for them, so they won’t produce reasonably priced lenses just for me.
Hope to see more stuff l’île Sony FE 28/2 wich is quite a bargain of you compare to canikon stuff
True. The 28mm is a strange release, price wise. I would really like to see 35 or 40mm that I could actually pay for the same month I buy it. If I did not have a Nikon 28mm f2 AIs lens I would buy the FE 28mm and count my blessings for the nice price.
It is a reasonably priced lens. But Nikon also has some very good and reasonably priced f1.8 primes.
However, I fear, as the market will shrink further, we will see less and less offerings like this in the future. More and more casual customers (not pros and enthusiasts/hobbyists) will leave the system camera market. Meanwhile, Apple sells indecent amounts of iPhones. One of the reasons are their photo/video capabilities.
You might be right. But I hope not. Photography has been a wonderful hobby for me all these years. I bought my grandson a D5100 some time ago to get him started, and I hope he enjoys it for a lot of years. I bought him the kit zoom and a fantastic 35mm f1.8 lens for absolute peanuts, which is still available today for absolute peanuts.
I hope that I’m wrong too.
I often compare it with the watch market. The market of reasonably priced watches is more and more in trouble each year. The mass market customer base is gone. The only surviving segment is the high price market. The more expensive the better. In a few years there won’t be any reasonably priced watches. Only swiss (or german) mechanical masterpieces for insane prices, or cheaply made overpriced fashion garbage (Armani, Hilfiger or whatever).
Well, all that truth just ruined my day. Hey, I can’t wait to go shoot B&W film with my a7ii and Nikon lenses. I’m going to go back to the way it was, hide under a rock and wait for the guy in the black cloak, carrying a sickle. I’m actually pretty excited about my new Sony.
Hmm, I have no idea how you get that B&W film in your A7ii without destroying both, camera and film, but wouldn’t it be a better idea to use a good old Nikon F with your Nikkor lenses and your B&W film? Just sayin.
Sorry for ruining your day. 😛
Or FM2n maybe? 😉 Actually when I tried out my a6000 with the B&W profile it really was like shooting film. There was a time when B&W film was all I used, and I saw every old barn or courthouse in black and white looking through the viewfinder. Now I can barely recall my name, little on what it was like to shoot B&W film. But I got my a7ii a couple of hours ago, After going through all my set ups I set picture profile to B&W shooting RAW+JPEG. It is every bit as nice as I thought it would be. Man, that IBIS really seals the deal. Is that nice or what? Just dial in the focal length and that thing really locks it down when you half press the shutter button. AIs lenses were never so good.
Good comparison:
cheap watches for casual “knowing the time” are replaced by pocket watches with internet-access.
Same for cheaper casual shooting cameras.
Only expensive watches survive because they are bought for their own sake. And expensive cameras are bought for making compromise-less pictures and movies.
And yes – there is overpriced fashion garbage like Hasselblad lunar 🙂
If we are seeing convergence between a variety of electronic devices vying for camera function, the high end is all that’s left for innovation and features. Otherwise, buy an iPhone or Galaxy and do all your pix and video on them.
I can’t afford the new glass from Sony or Zeiss, period. Way too expensive for me to justify, so I am uisng manual Samyang/Rokinon primes on a tripod formstills and video. Image quality is superb and negates any advantages of a brand name per se.
I will cop a really nice zoom one day but have Maxxums for now and they do very well, thank you. In other words, I’m not seeing any real progress other than body development. An a600x is in my future….
So, I’m guessing you missed out on the deal and you’re bitter……
>casual customers will leave market
um it’s less people buying new cameras because they already have one and it’s not broken yet. I wouldn’t call it “leave market”
I was referring to the customer base in figures, as a statistical value, not the individual customers. There are always new young customers who have no camera (or whatever other gadget) who could buy one. “Leave the market ” means, customers (again purely statistical) buy other things instead.
I’m not an expert, but I would not say the market is saturated.
So, I’m guessing you missed out on the deal and you’re bitter.
So, I’m guessing you missed out on the deal and you’re bitter……………
Uhm, you only define lenses through numbers and overlook everything else!?
You have to start with what you can afford. To start with any other number makes no sense to me. Photography is fun, unless someone is depressed about credit card debt, partly caused by GAS over Zeiss lenses. I won’t go there. I like Zeiss, but I would much prefer the price of a Sony 35mm f1.8, as they offer for aps-c, even without OSS in order to keep the size down. You have to keep rememberng, that Zeiss 35mm is stopped down to f2.8 at the factory. Not to difficult to get good performance from any 35mm lens stopped down to f2.8, except Sony offers nothing else.
So, the rest of us should suffer poor quality lenses so that you can afford them? Is this what you want? How about you using legacy lenses until you can afford native glass, or staying with the kit lens. Buy on the used market. That is what I have done with other camera systems. Don’t blame Sony for your situation. Sorry, I don’t tolerate whiners well.
I didn’t say that. Nikon, and I believe Canon offer 35mm f1.4 for the well heeled along with an excellent 35mm f1.8G for the masses. The Nikon in many tests is actually sharper than the Sigma 35mm Art. Sharpness isn’t everything, but that Nikon f1.8 lens is not terrible in the bokeh department, I believe it sells for under $600, and it is far better at f1.8 than the Zeiss FE 35mm, hands down, and you now why.
So stick with Canon or Nikon and use the very few cheap thirty year old design lenses that are still offered and be happy.
Oh, and you can stick that whiner stuff where you should have left it when you came here.
Well I can’t afford the Leica M cameras, but I don’t visit their sides to tell them that Sony makes cheaper and better cameras (both true 🙂 ) So why are you here. You can’t afford the expensive glass for the FF cameras from Sony (I can’t either) so that mount is not for you! Go to the camera mount that is affordable for you. (I still want such a beautifull Leica…)
Good points, but not completely true. I bought the full frame Sony for my Nikon manual focus lenses. I can no longer handle the big Nikon cameras, and the a7ii looks like a perfect fit. After selling all my Nikon AF stuff I started with the a6000, which is perfect for me. When there was something I needed I bought it, like the D800E with the “trilogy”. So I’m not selling pencils over here.
I don’t intend to ever mount a FE AF lens on my a7ii. It can’t really match the a6000 for that endeavor in any case. However, it would be nice to have an inexpensive FE prime for “just in case”. The other manufacturers offer that option. Sony should do so as well. But perhaps I am being unkind. Perhaps Sony isn’t up to it. But I will be fine with what I have. Still, there are people out there who want to shoot full frame on a budget. Sony offers the solution with the a7 series cameras but snatches it back on lens prices.
Roy, There is a affordable FE native lens, the 28mm f/2.
I’m sure in some future there will come more affordable glass for the FF E-mount, but sony was hammerd down in the early days of E-mount for not having high quality glass for their Nex cameras, they listened to the public and look now: people (not only you) are blaiming them for not having affordable glass…
You are right of course. But it is hard to understand why they think a cheap FF camera is going to draw more users when the price of the only “normal” FL lens is plain to see. Well, I’ve killed this horse, so I won’t beat it anymore. I already love my a7ii, and I don’t need a Sony lens for it (I can use my 16-70 in a pinch. I love that lens). I got more shooting to do. Thanks for the input.
“You have to keep rememberng, that Zeiss 35mm is stopped down to f2.8 at the factory”.
Err… what?
I understand what you say, but what has this to do with Sony? Reasonably priced lenses are history. That applies to any camera brand.
The days of plastic fantastic cheap mass produced lenses are numbered. Because the sales volume that is necessary for this is vanishing.
Even Sigma and Tamron are clearly heading the high quality route. They can still not charge as much as the big dogs in that area, but $1000 for a 50mm standard prime lens is not what I call reasonably priced.
So to me that is not Sonys fault. It is caused by the much lower sales (in units) nowadays.
You’re talking about the Sigma Art of course. Sigma is an anomaly. That lens is an absolute hog. It was designed for maximum sharpness over all other aspects. Their original 50mm, even though not priced so high, could not gain traction against Canon and Nikon, so they found another way to skin the cat. The thing is, both Nikon and Canon offer very inexpensive, very good 50mm lenses in the f1.8 range, and even the Nikon 50mm f1.4 can be bought for $400 or less. No doubt lens prices have climbed everywhere. But I think the aim for those giants still include some bargains for the less dedicated user. I don’t believe Sony is going to gain a lot of DSLR market share by catering only to hard core enthusiasts. But certainly they can try. So far the big two are holding market share, and I don’t see Sony gaining those users. I’m sure they can cannibalize sales from aps-c and m4/3 mirrorless systems, and perhaps that is enough for them.
So, I’m guessing you missed out on the deal and you’re bitter………………………………………………………
To me this is the most convincing evidence I have seen that the true alpha mount could be on the way out; however, these slides always come to us without context. Who was the audience for the slides? Who was the author? It makes a difference. The strategy 1 slide makes it look like maybe they are referencing video. One could surmise that the context could be to address the need for a strategy to manage increasing demands for video. How many times have we heard that accusation that manufacturers (not just Sony) hold back video technology to protect the video specific products? Context matters! Still, that one image proclaiming a single mount is a bit disturbing for those of us with the ‘other’ mount.
Very very disapointed about the A Mount system and no news about it, has been some time we have seen any good news about the A Mount system… If Sony is not going to be supporting it (like there last move of stopping the A850 parts which was still selling about 3 years ago) I think it might be time to move away from the system which is very very very unfortunate as I really enjoy and love shooting with the A99 and A77 camera’s but Sony do seem to be loosing the plot with the A Mount system and it really dos feel like development has reduced dramatically….
Sony has also almost dropped all the entry level A Mount camera’s and I understand to get more into the E-Mount and capture that market but what happend to all the development, support and news on the A Mount system?
Please Sony pickup your game with the A mount system, I though you were going to take on the ‘professional’ camera market or so this is what a number of Sony reps kept telling me over the years and we are still waiting… and waiting… and waiting….. Sorry but the E-Mount is a fantastic system but it’s just not ready for professional use (or at least not were good and fast auto-focus is needed any way)
e mount dslr sized body!? I don’t see that A3000 is such a huge hit…
That was funy, but quite puny attempt to sell something to the Rebel SL1/T5 and Nikon D3xxx crowd who recognize the SLR shape and think that it will instantly allow them to take better pictures.
Things would turn out different if they applied this concept on A7 level or higher to add features, controls and ergonomics, instead of just mimicking the appearance.
“Single mount”, meaning E-mount, meaning that this is Sony unofficially announcing that A-mount is going the way of the Dodo. Anyone that doesn’t see this is only fooling themselves. Disappointing, yet inevitable.
The presentation you see here is for Sony managers, not for Sony consumers. They talk about product lines, not about products. Thanks to the internet we get a lot of information, not meant for us.This is not a marketing thing, it is management.
And about the cameras, when you don’t like the Sony strategy it is best to leave the Sony camp. No need to get mad or what ever, buy into an other brand, maybe Canon or Nikon, what ever suits you best and accept the downsides of that brand, or come back in a year or so after complaining in the othe camp…
Ther is no such thing as the perfect camera!
Vague and poor English, that’s Sony strategies. Like the bible, you can interpret however you like. They don’t tell anything new nor specific
yes because that is originally a presentation slides
Not even a rough draft. They used alpha mount and e mount on same slide and didn’t bother to differentiate them. Makes one wonder if the presenter was not clear about what’s going on
The slides are made to inform the management, not the consumer. pictures on the slides are for the sake of a nice view, more then they are for a real information. It is the story that goes with it. The story that is told by the person wh delivered the presentation, so we don’t know that. People here are looking at some pictures and make a lot of BS out of them, things that neverwere in the presentation…
This was an Investors Relations presentation, shown to stockholders. IT is intended to show a broad overview of the entire company, not to cover the detailed technology of any product or division.
How well do you speak japanese?
presentations need to be professional in any language. not that many words on those slides
It’s obviously an internal presentation from a japanese company, not public marketing. We should keep things in perspective.
The reason why my reaction was a bit tensed, is, that I’m sick of all the english grammar fascists, who, mostly american, often don’t speak any foreign language themselves, let alone fluidly or grammatical flawless. I know, english as THE universal language, is in a special position, but I think the message is what still matters the most. So, no reason for rude sentiments against foreign Sony employees.
Actually this presented at IR Day 2015, where IR = Investor Relations. It was intended for a non-technical business audience who care more about the financials than they do the technology.
So, I’m guessing you missed out on the deal and you’re bitter…..
So, I’m guessing you missed out on the deal and you’re bitter…………………………………………………………….
Minolta never had a lot of success with digital SLR’s because they entered the market late- and much like Sony- failed to successfully market and promote their products. Not much has changed right?
All I gather from these slides is pretty much nothing other than business as usual. Pump more bodies and expensive lenses out- hope it sticks. I’m more interested in how Sony’s business model has changed. What will make their relationship with customers different this time around? A mount is casting a nasty shadow on those FE efforts. It’s best not to ignore it for to much longer.
What you say is true, but at one point, before the Honeywell and Exxon law suits, Minolta did have a time of great success against CaNikon.
“As a result of their innovations, the products that Minolta launched with The William Esty Company increased their camera sales from third, behind Canon & Nikon, to first in the U.S. marketplace.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minolta
It’s amazing that Minolta survived long enough to even get into the DSLR game. And let’s face it, they were primed to enter… The Sony a900/700 are obviously Minolta designs purchased by Sony, allowing them to enter with a Pro bang worthy of note. Surely no one believes that Sony would have designed cameras like a900/700 on their own… do they?
To all those who believe Emount adapted with LAEA-4 is nearly equal to a99 or a77, please read through this thread and educate yourselves. It is not.
See here:
http://www.dyxum.com/dforum/does-your-a7ii-allow-afc-with-high-cont-laea4_topic112363.html
LAEA-4 only works at Low Continuous at 2fps, with all the prowess of an a55.
High Speed Continuous just locks focus after first frame.
This is true for both adapted LAEA-4 lenses, and also native Emount lenses… although they are oddly a bit different from one another. Native Emount lenses default to “Release Priority”. Adapted LAEA-4 lenses default to “Shutter Priority”.
a99/77/900/700 allow user to choose between Release or Shutter Priority, and sometimes a third option between the two.
_________
Moral of the story… forget about getting any long sportsman’s glass to AF as good as Amount does… much less the competition.
_________
If your results are different, then please illustrate. Add your findings to the Dyxum thread listed above. It’s an interesting read and surprising mystery revealed by the third page. Adapted A has opposite traits of Native E. So please designate which mount you are using. Otherwise it’ll get confusing.
This is not Emount bashing. But we need to set the record straight based on reality. Consumers should have a clear understanding for what to expect adapting Amount to Emount. Let’s get past the hype. Nothing bad has been said about Emount here. Just the facts. Revealing truth can only help our community, and possibly steer Sony a the direction that helps us all.
The final summary makes some assumptions that are not there. IT assumes because the FE lens roadmap is published.. and used as the focus.. that when they say “professional cameras” its all about an FE camera. Sony has in recent statements said they see larger (a-mount) bodies as Professional / Advanced shooters. The presentation is about the (Greek Alpha-mount) system. Which is both e-mount and a-mount. The lens counts shown and mentioned are for both mounts. And if you note, the lens count indicates there is not plan to discontinue any a-mount lenses. IF you look at the roadmap it lists 7 FE lenses but when they do the final count they talk about “+” the future includes more than FE lenses. First of all people this is an INVESTOR presentation. its not a GEAR HEAD.. presentation. IF they start talking about e-mount and a-mount etc. it confuses the money people and they make up an excuse for their confusion. Lets face it the DSLR market Sony is a distant 3rd and will always be.. Even when they were doing 5 bodies in a year it didn’t shift. This is not what you show investors.. But starting with the A77M2 the model numbers were all moved to ILCA and ILCE so whenever the talk about ILC cameras that includes the Amount. Sony being the ONLY FF mirrorless system you show the investors what you are doing to leverage that. That they have 60% of the FUTURE of cameras, mirrorless is pretty powerful statement. They are to Mirrorless what Apple has become to mobile computing.. I will note that on the slide the top summary phrase does not use e-mount FE.. But the heading is worded to talk about ALL FF LENSES and was we have seen the recent a-mount lenses updates have all been FF. I think Sony is seeing what we would expect. consumer / entry level cameras are dying because people use phones and tablets. Go to a school function.. its phones and tablets being used by 60% of the parents and 10% of us have the DSLR format cameras and most of them are men. Camera moms are moving to mirrorless when the phone doesn’t cut it. Again.. even Apple is nearly silent about MACs but they have actually gained a bit if share of the over all PC market. because the mobile brings them in. IF APS e-mount read this presentation the way sad-sack a-mount owners like to read it.. the assumption would be the A5100 was the last small APS e-mount. Sony is only FF and doesn’t care about A6000 owners etc. Sony has done more A-mount lenses than APS e-mount lenses in recent months.. APS e-mount is Dead.. (if you use the same logic as people apply to a-mount.)
Sony dslr is no longer 3rd… They have fallen below Pentax.
Might be true right now, but that will change when Sony releases new A-mount full frame bodies. There are far more A-mount users, worldwide, than Pentax, but Sony has only released a single A-mount body in the past two years so loss in market share (in terms of current sales) is to be expected.
I’m sure they know a slightly updated A99II won’t cut it. Something compelling takes time. I saw an interview late last year- they said the benefit of A mount is less expectation in regards to size. You can cram a whole lot more in there. I hope their cramming stuff as we speak.
That is quite possible I have not been able to find any market numbers for the last few years those reports are all locked up in paid reports.. But I will take my A77m2 over color cameras with flashing LEDs.. Pentax does both some good stuff and some very cynical stuff. Even when they did 5 bodies they didn’t gain enough share to support the cost of doing 5 bodies.
Sources please. How many cameras can Pentax be selling right now? Have you seen their stupid lens prices? Announcing a FF way before you release it was complete stupidity. Now what diehard Pentax fan is going to buy your slightly updated K3II with that anticipation looming.
Nikon didn’t make that mistake. For the longest time they said APSC was it and that was that. When they did decide to offer FF it was quick and with little explanation to the public. They knew how to protect their APSC line. Pentax suffers from the worst marketing of any camera manufacturer out there.
Like I said, sources please.
Hard to find global stats, but here are the stats for Japan:
http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/japanese-sales-in-2014-sony-leads-the-mirrorless-ranking-looses-on-the-dslr-market/
If you look at Amazon sales rankings in the USA, right now the A77ii is #2863 in cameras and photo. The A99 is #6570. The A58 is #1401.
The Pentax K3 is #1545. The white K50 with 2 lens bundle is #1438. The black K50 bundle is #1780. The K3ii is #2160. the K50 body only is #1489.
So firm evidence is elusive. But all the evidence that does exists, points to Pentax outselling A-mount.
Way to pick Japan, a place where Sony’s camera sales are almost exclusively mirrorless….
They happen to be a market that releases stats… and I also posted USA information.
Thanks.
I would never buy a serious camera from Amazon.
Maybe we will see larger E-Mount bodies? Who knows? The A7ii is already heading towards DSLR-ish size and handling.
In general DSLRs are much larger than SLRs were.. And Sony is aware of that. We in many times are returning to classic camera sizes. But key things to watch is Sony has consistently even after it became clear e-mount was where they could grow.. 1/3rd of lenses releases are for a-mount and year after year and they are FF and Sony still will not do that all important F2.8 zooms for e-mount. But the “larger body” comments have often come as part of a-mount questions etc. The mirror box is a permanent part of the a-mount even if the mirror goes.. it sets the size.
Agree with Ken, when is Sony going to address the big gap in the E-mount which is a F2.8 zoom. Even Samsung has such a lens for the NX1. Third party lens providers have lens for A-mount than address gaps. Sony needs to do more on ecosystem development. Agree adapters can address this gap, but from sound of it there is an impact to quality.
I am also shocked that Sony released A7II without in camera 4K video especially based on this presentation. Seems their marketing was behind on the 4K and quality side. Sounds like the A7III will be a great camera and improvements to A7II body are very good. A7RII and A7SII should get same body
Exactly. They only made them small at first to get people out of there wonderful A-Mount lenses. Small and uncomfortable with crappy AF at first and then make them big as A-Mount later just so you have to buy new lenses. So glad I went to Nikon.
So, I’m guessing you missed out on the deal and you’re bitter………………………………….
Ken, you summed it up better than I could. Also in the presentation it says quote “Enhance competitiveness of all Sony cameras by strengthening our α mount system while seamlessly expanding the system to all camera products.”
I read this to say they want a more unified, modular and seamless system from the ground starting with RX-series to E & A mount to provide more options & greater flexibility for different types of photographers.
A-mount isn’t going anywhere anytime soon.
agree with your thorough interpretations. it’s easy for sony to reassure people that a-mount is alive if it indeed is, but it chooses to be vague about it and that probably means it doesn’t have a solid a mount strategy.
“Cutting Edge / Consumer Needs” (E-Mount Mirrorless):
– Allow “Crop Mode” to be assigned to a Custom Button! AND allow this to be changed WHILE recording video!!!!!
– Make the record button on the A7/A7II/A7R/A7S bigger and put it in a less awkward position!
– Combine your PDAF, 5-Axis Stabilization and A7S lowlight TOGETHER into a SINGLE CAMERA!!!!
– Ditch the micro-hdmi and use a full sized hdmi socket!!
– Give us a zoom lens with a constant LARGE aperture + CONSTANT zoom barrel similar to the Sigma 18-35 F1.8.
– Allow the hdmi-out display to go full screen with overlays and NOT windowed.
– Allow continuous AF to go beyond F6.3
60% of the mirrorless market. More bullshit.
yeah it´s full of lies the report.
Please provide the exact and actual figures?
If Sony does indeed push everything to E-mount, I’ll abandon ship for a company that cares more about ergonomics, image quality, and lens speed. I LOVE my A-mount system; I like the f/1.4 primes, I love the 135mm f/1.8, I like the f/2.8 zooms, and can’t stand the idea of having to use an adapter for them to work on my camera. I also just find the E-mount bodies impossible to handle. I want something more ergonomic like my A99.
That said, I don’t believe this means the death of the A-mount. Like Ken just said, the presentation targets investors who don’t understand the difference between systems.
“I also just find the E-mount bodies impossible to handle. I want something more ergonomic like my A99.” Interesting. I have the opposite reaction. The single biggest problem with DSLR cameras and SLT cameras for me is the form factor. E mount cameras have fixed that, and are rapidly approaching the point of having everything else needed.
So he didn’t exist as a character in several TV series and films?
The conclusion that they will focus on E mount is not correct.
They say they will focus on ILC. Not ILCE or ILCA. Just ILC in a command sense which mean they focus on the system camera business instead of compact or superzoom etc.
THere is no reference that E mount is prefered compared to A mount.
But of course the big downside of E mount is the lack of lenses. So it is very clear that they have to catch up and will bring more lenses for E mount since there is already a comprehensive linup of A mount lenses. Sony amphasized always that both mounts will contiued. E mount for size priority and entry level, A mount for larger bodys and more professionel only.
If they plan to bring e-mount from 12 to 20 lenses, and during the same time a-mount from 51 to 51 lenses, how exactly is the conclusion wrong that Sony will focus on e-mount?
Dear CaNikon friends…
Did they take away your hot shoe, force you to adapt for less function and stability… killing your accessory investment… for the promise of a microphone that could have been ported somewhere else?… Then tell you to stop whining and be happy about it…
Did they take away your nice batteries, claiming compactness, but forgetting to mention the lumps in your pockets carrying extras?… Then tell you to stop whining and be happy about it…
Did they create a compact vision for amateurs, then tell you it was the new pro, abandoning the fat cams that hold your fat lenses with security?… Then tell you to stop whining and be happy about it…
Did they cram tiny buttons into half the space, lose some buttons, and make other buttons share purpose on a body that simply cannot be used with gloves on?… Then tell you to stop whining and be happy about it…
Did they create a new vertical grip that triggers its shutter by the palm of your hand?… Then tell you to stop whining and be happy about it…
Did they steal your pro line moniker and menus, apply them to toy cameras, then confuse the market place by hijacking long won legacy to prop up a system which hasn’t earned respect by its own merit?… Then tell you to stop whining and be happy about it…
Did they feed you wobbly weak plastic lens mounts, add unreliable wobbly adapters that rattle with less refinement than a cheap video game controller?… Then tell you to stop whining and be happy about it…
Did they force fly-wire focus upon you that has non responsive slow manual focus and accelerated fast focus, making it impossible to perform certain pro requirements?… Then tell you to stop whining and be happy about it…
__________
Dear CaNikon friends… I envy you. As your camera partners have done in the past, CaNikon will learn from the amateur mistakes of other companies, and soon release your own versions of mirrorless EVF cameras that don’t abandon the subtle refinements that professionals expect.
I’m patiently awaiting the day when CaNikon answer the new technology with thoughtfully considered application. Upon that day I will shed myself of the psychopathic Sony mentality, betrayal, adapters, and the instability they manifest.
I think Sony puts more effort into touting and promoting their “Artists of Imagery” mascots than they do actually considering what professional photographers require to make a living with. Enjoy it while you can Sony. The day of your sun is about to set.
Oh yeah… to all those who say… “Just leave and use CaNikon”…
… Is that Sony’s business model? Do you follow a company that would rather send customers away, instead of acknowledging how they’ve let down so many of us with this new toy camera mentality? Good plan Sony.
Wow! You certainly need to get a life, or at least buy one on eBay!. Being so bitter and grumpy for just a simple camera? I wonder how you react to real life issues. You can chose between dozens of cameras from several brands (“canikon” isn’t the only alternative, you know?), you choose to stay with sony but complaining and whining all the time? I insist, get a life.
I insist, instead of attacking the messenger, try addressing some of the actual message in the comments above. Or since you can’t argue against any of the valid points, just resort to attacking the messenger with your unsolicited advice about their life. Who needs a life here?
You have to remember Sony is in a Business of making money and surviving. I’m sure if more people like yourself that likes A-mount spent more money than the people buying E-mount Then they would happily put more money into it. I’m pretty sure their business model is ‘how do we make more money’, not ‘how do we keep people happy that won’t make a profit’. They have to recoup costs of research/development etc, and if not enough money is being earnt by A-mount then it’s obvious it’s going to be phased out. If you want to blame anyone, blame A-mount users for not buying more, or blame the non professionals that are happy with e-mount that is making Sony money.
You A-mount owners need to just leave if you’re not willing to wake up to reality. The camera market is shrinking to oblivion. Companies cannot afford to keep multiple mounts going when the market is shrinking. Sony needs to chose, and they have chosen the mount with the brighter future. Any rational person can see this. Owning A-mount will be like owning m43 in a few years when the market squeezes out marginal players. Sony will continue to support A-mount but it won’t be introducing new equipment like they used to. In a few years, when the camera market shrinks to 1/4 of what it is today, I’m pretty sure this policy will also extend to E-mount. This is not a case of playing favorites. It’s a case of rational economics.
Has anyone proclaimed A-mount is dead yet?
Too lazy to scroll down 150+ comments.
LMFAO. Good one!
So, I’m guessing you missed out on the deal and you’re bitter….
No. Nobody really cares for obsolete solutions.
There is no longer any point in saying A mount is dead….A mount is now history…sort of like Sonys founding father…..stabbed to death by his ambitious son.
A-mount user base is on decline because of E-mount. E-mount system is OK for many shooting styles BUT not for all. I can not see E-mount doing well for example wildlife or sports. I predicts it is going to stay that way for at least few years from now. Ask SONY about long teles for E-mount …
If you want long lenses for wildlife photography you must switch to Canon or Nikon.
Sony has absolutely no interest in this market segment.
A mount is the Zombie of the photographic world. Not quite dead but not quite living. Shotguns don’t work either.
Had a good laughter after reading this one – and very true, indeed :)!
Yeah you have to destroy the brain.
I can see the statement “Ecosystem of strong products center around SINGLE mount system” with a E mount picture on top of it … you can figure out what that means.
Product Lifecycle & strategy:
So, place a-mount & e-mount in the correct position,
then you will know what is their strategy
Mirrorless is in Development Phase. and FF mirrorless is really still one foot in Develop phase.. .. DSLRs in general are in the Maturing phase. we are no longer doing double the pixels every two years and there is very little differentiate cameras at the Sensor level.. for most users.. Sony still makes money off a-mount but part of that is that they don’t spend a ton advertising it. Its not for new users it will continue with existing users and e-mount users who add it to their system because they want to shoot with longer better lenses which is where it excels.
> Give us a zoom lens with a constant LARGE aperture
If I could choose between a 70-200 f4 and a similar sized/prized 70-200 f2.8-4, I would choose the 2nd one.
I think the Admin is interpreting too much and not necessarily correctly. Having read through this powerpoint, the discussion is about “a mount” generally, without differentiation between real a-mount and e-mount. I am not sure who this presentation is for, but it looks to me like everything is stated in general terms for people who might not necessarily know or care about the difference. This is more about the competitive marketplace and corporate strategy for making money. There is nothing here that says that Sony is going to favor e-mount or that a-mount is dead. There are a lot of images of the a7 as well as the latest video cameras because those represent the Sony products that have the largest “wow factor” at this point in time. Bottom line, no impartial person could draw from these documents the headline adopted by the admin “focus on e-mount.” There is clearly going to be a focus on developing professional level a mount cameras. But as used in this article, the term a mount clearly encompasses both real a-mount and e-mount. Sony’s future focus may be on e-mount, but you certainly cannot draw that conclusion with any confidence from this powerpoint. I think the Admin has gone way out on an unsupported limb again.
Like always 😉
Nope. The presentation is about alpha system, because that’s how Sony calls all of their ILC at the moment. Clearly a sign of unification.
Open the presentation (this is an official document for investors, not some marketing slides for sales) and find me a place where A-mount is mentioned. Or at least a picture of an A-mount camera. :]
For everyone who observes the Sony ILCs with a little distance and dispassion it is very clear that the A-mount is already dead on the R&D level. They only provide some updates to bodies/lenses to get the extra sales, but the main message for current A-mount users is: go MILC!
But don’t worry, because I understand you very well. I’m sticking to Nikon because I BELIEVE they will soon make an excellent mirrorless APS-C body. 😀
As I said, this appears to be a presentation made to people who neither know or care about the difference between a-mount and e-mount. Its all generic “a mount.” Different lenses can be used on the camera. You can read tea leaves if you like, but evidence of the “death of a-mount” is just not there. It may be obvious to you, but it is far from obvious to me. If you really think this is all about e-mount over a-mount, wouldn’t you expect them to be precise in their identification of “e-mount.”
There is no “a mount” in the presentation. I just suggested to check the slides! Did you do it? 🙂
They only use the name “alpha” (Greek letter), because that’s how Sony ILCs are called.
You look at “alpha”, you see “a” and you think “A-mount”.
I understand you, because I also BELIEVE in some products to be released very soon… they must be! :]
Yup. I did read the presentation end to end before I wrote my first comment because I was looking for confirmation of the conclusion drawn by the admin and headlined in this article. There’s lots of stuff about play stations and video cams. There is nothing that says Sony is retiring a-mount and/or moving forward with e-mount to the exclusion of a-mount. This is not the type of document where such things would be announced in any event. Sony cannot sell its expensive a-mount lenses (two updated models just released) if it does not produce a-mount cameras. I don’t think Sony is stupid enough to believe that most self-respecting photographers are going to buy an a7 and a half-baked adaptor and then purchase a-mount lenses. People can read tea leaves if they like in documents written for people who could care less what an e-mount is versus an a-mount. But it is this tendency of people to want to read something into a document which is not there, in any way, shape, or form, in order to confirm their preconceived notions, that leads to false rumors.
@piotrkosewski:disqus is correct. “A-mount” is never mentioned in the entire presentation, only “α-mount” which implies ALL alpha cameras which, while, technically could be both “A-mount” and “E-mount” (with FE & E lenses) is likely in fact only referring to FE mount lenses at this point, judging by the context (and the lens numbers quoted above–regardless of whether they carry the qualifier “over”+number)
Seriously? Is that what you are hanging your hat on? You’ve got to do better than that.
I wish I wasn’t right on this one, because I think it’s just as ridiculous as you do. Sony is really making things convoluted here. They are trying to to tie all lens lines (FF A-mount, APS-C A-mount, APS-C E-mount, FE mount) into one “α-Mount System” as if it was all the plan from day one. If you don’t believe me, just look here:
https://blog.sony.com/press/sony-introduces-a-variety-new-lenses-for-acclaimed-%CE%B1-e-mount-camera-system/
“These new high-quality lenses are a great example of the evolution of our α mount camera system,” said Neal Manowitz, director of the interchangeable lens camera business at Sony Electronics.
Then re-read the applicable Sony IR Day 2015 presentation pages linked to in this very post, where it specifically states in a black box “α Mount System” “Ecosystem of strong products centered around a SINGLE MOUNT SYSTEM” (emphasis added) and there is a clear image of a full-frame E-Mount. They have convinced themselves (and are trying to convince all of us, or whomever this presentation was directed at) that they are developing a one mount system! Either that or their collective English comprehension is flawed (actually very likely the case.)
What would make more sense to you…? That Sony would waste valuable R&D time and money developing lenses and bodies with TWO different mounts, when they can just continue developing a single mount for all future lenses and bodies that is accepting (i.e. backwards compatible) of all previous lenses and accessories? They don’t care if that compatibility is near-crippling to the accessory’s original functionality, they can still say its backwards compatible!
This feels like a page taken out of Apple’s book. Sure you can upgrade your iPhone 3GS to iOS 8(!) It’s backwards compatible(!), but once you do the memory overload on the older device’s now obsolete hardware will make using it such a chore you will feel more inclined to upgrade to the new device they want you to buy… boom they’ve got you.
Could be . . . I really just believed, and still believe that the Admin was headlining something that just isn’t there. We can question whether it makes sense to have both a-mount and e-mount, but Sony apparently believed at one time that it did for some reason. Perhaps not a perfect parallel, but don’t both Nikon and Canon have separate lens lines too? I may be self-delusional, but I don’t believe real a-mount is dead. I think it may just be that true a-mount cameras are going to be developed more slowly, and not for the masses, and that they will have all the technological bells and whistles that are presently available from Sony. Sony may hope to grab headlines, not necessarily market share.
LOL i knew it from first use LA-EA4 was almost useless for efficient AF :D… Sony even never published my feedback about it 😉
I thought it was IBM that filed the most patents. Or maybe you meant in the camera industry
Math in the Lens Extension Roadmap is telling, projecting:
FE lens count increasing from 12 to 20 (an increase of 8)
TOTAL lens count increasing from 63 to 70 (an increase of only 7)
Assuming TOTAL includes FE, then where’s the missing lens?
And will new lenses, as this strongly suggests, be exclusively FE mount?
Could be discontinuation of a certain lens modes, replacement with 2nd versions, etc etc. There are plenty of things that may happen, which wouldn’t affect the final count.
Notice the word “Over” in front of 20 and 70.
You miss the word “Over” in front of the number,
Over 20 means 2X,
Over 70 means 7X.
You are indeed correct.
I don’t know, but maybe the reason Sony doesn’t come out with an EOL statement for A-mount is because they are not actually ending A-mount?
“Alpha mount system”… BULLSHIT! A-Mount system and E-Mount system
“FE lenses… Total lenses” BULLSHIT! FE lenses and A-Mount lenses.
It’s like they can’t even say the word “A-Mount” anymore. And what “professional line-up” are they talking about? They are unwilling to turn FE into one and equally unwilling to develop the one they had.
Seriously, Sony, WTF??
Everyone need different needs and so far Sony isn’t giving users too many options. You either get a new small body (a7II) or a large body in need of a replacement (a99).
Sony is pushing too hard for small bodies and isn’t thinking about giving people more options.
broken english on these slides. it’s not ‘alpha mount’ system, just ‘alpha’ system that includes a-mount and e-mount.
It’s all broken English with Sony it seems. The menu’s, the websites, the mobile apps… Apparently that sort of stuff is just not important to a company with multi-billion dollar operating income. It boggles the mind…
I think Sony get to decide what Sony things are called.
Not rumor’s but a interpretation from advertising blah blah from Sony
A Mount is dead, Sony just don’t want to say it. Typical Japanese, cannot be direct and honest if it is bad news. Will just focus peoples attention away from the negative and to the positive, saves face.
E-Mount seems like a poor choice to me. If they were going to replace A-Mount they should have replaced E-Mount also and chosen mount design that better meet their needs for small lens size and Full Frame.
Short sighted thinking when they created E-Mount. Lack of clear vision is not unusual in business.
Impression? R.I.P. A-mount
Just get on with it Sony: show us those tempting enthusiast and pro solutions and keep ’em coming. A9. A7000. RX1m3. RX100 4/3. No more compressed lossy raw. No shutter shock. Admit the issues in existing models and fix them. And develop a pro level service program. And hurry up. 🙂
A- or E-Mount… i have an A77 and i like it. It´s no Problem to use E-Mount but i want a normal Body, a big one not such a toy in my hands.
So if there is no way to get an A99II – put the A7RII/A7II in a “big body” and i’ll buy it
Oh look! The image cube has been replaced by a triangular sphere!
EOS-M and Nikon 1… ‘nough said.
Oh wait, they were only ‘toys’ and someday soon those brands are going to ‘get serious’ about mirrorless and abandon those toys. Great!
Don’t count. CaNikon NEVER attempted to make those compete with or threaten the big boy cameras. The toy CaNikons NEVER pretend to be pro worthy. The toy CaNikons remain loyal to their original vision.
No one ever said that N1 or M will replace current DSLRs or that they will compete against Sony FE.
There systems were created to attract different customers or cover different needs.
And actually they sell quite well in Japan, which is the only country where they are seriously promoted. Clearly, there is a market for such cameras.
When C&N go mirrorless in their high-end cameras, they will not compete with Sony FE either, although they might make similar cameras at some point. Clearly, people stayed with DSLRs despite the bigger size and simple traditional interface (lack of all the smartphone-generation features you get from Sony/Fuji/MFT). C&N will focus on these people, possibly attracting many of the SLT fans who will be dumped by Sony.
This is a weak business at the moment and it might never get better. No company can support multiple similarly performing camera systems.
No one ever said FE will replace SLT, other than Internet experts.
Don’t have to go by what’s said. Just open your eyes look at what’s actually happening.
Would it be easier for you to accept if I’d say that:
1) A-mount disappeared from Sony marketing
2) A-mount disappeared from Sony IR materials
3) the last newly designed A-mount body was released over 2 years ago
4) the last newly designed A-mount lens was released also over 2 years ago (and the previous one was released another year earlier)
5) (F)E-mount took over A-mount original name: Alpha system
6) 3rd party lens manufacturers are canceling new A-mount lenses (or delaying them for months)
Tto make it short, sometimes we say that “A-mount is dead”. It doesn’t mean that someone took a gun and killed everyone at Sony, who knew how to make A-mount gear. 😀
Great! Sony’s healthy profits and market share show that they are exactly on the correct track. Which will grow even more when they release the world’s highest resolution sensor..good times head!
That’s it. A-Mount is just history now 🙂
All long teles are A-mount.
A-mount is cool!
Haha – dream on – it is an illusion:
@500mm f4:
Sony $13K
Canon $9K
Nikon $8K
Canikons have IS, Sony not, and you have money left to get a D810 or 5Dx
No 1DX & D4S competitor in a-mount too.
Completely agree 😉
completely disagree.
my hands are huge and yet I am very much against swelling the overall size of the body anymore than the A7II already has. Now if Sony wants to release a mirrorless a-mount camera so all of you lot pipe down about the body being TOO SMALL (i never actually thought I would hear someone gripe about this… lol)–then more power to Sony.
As I reach my mid 60’s, I need a larger body with larger dials and buttons. Mirrorless bodies are simply too small and my hands cramp up just holding mirrorless bodies. I doubt older people getting arthritis in their hands is all that rare. The A77II size is perfect.
And that’s very understandable Mike… I agree, there likely exists a sizable market for the theoretical camera you describe. That is why I added the qualifier to my post that I am not opposed to Sony making such a camera. I am simply adding my voice to the opposition; there are those of us who feel mighty differently.
On a similar issue, I no longer subscribe to Wired magazine and Surfer magazine because the print type is also just too small. I think they use 4 point on some of their articles whereas 10pt or 12pt is usually the standard and very readable.
Very well put.
*sigh* clown comments by the ‘experts’. Sony is going after the market that works for them, chasing CandN isn’t getting them anywhere. Sorry that offends you, maybe you should have been a bigger supporter of A-Mount.
PS Sony has never pretended the FE system is ‘pro’ either. All this ‘pro’ walk doesn’t mean diddly-shit.
A mount will become (or already is) secondary to E-mount. Big deal. What people should realize is that a lot of the tech is shared between both lines of cameras. Sensors, displays, image processors, etc. There are only a limited amount of things that are mount specific. It is not that Sony has to keep 2 completely separate lines alive; they overlap a lot.
So I expect Sony to produce more A-mount cameras, but not at a high rate, with the same technology as the E-mount cameras.
There may come a time that they will be able to replace current A-mount cameras with an E-mount equivalent (so DSLR shaped, big body etc.), combined with a good adapter for the A-mount lenses (better than de LEA4), that has the same performance level as a A-mount camera. The result is that you will then effectively have the same as a native A-mount camera. Then there is no reason to keep A-mount.
Will this be a problem for A-mount users? No. They will be able to upgrade to a new camera, that has all the bells and whistles, and with the adapter is 100% functional towards their A-mount lenses. It is even better, because of the E-mount, you can use a lot more lenses: either native E-mount of through adapters a lot of other brands.
Have you seen the E-mount? It’s already minimised as much as can be for a full frame sensor. I think it’s a good standard as there’s almost endless supply of third party and antique lenses to be mounted quite easily.
After Sony dump A-mount, is possible MINOLTA can buy it back??????? 😀
“To all A-mount owners:
Sony will launch new A-mount lenses and cameras in future. I am 100% sure of that :)” 18 Apr 2015, after telling the discontinue of a-mount was fake
However, all the news after these words just tell the truth, slap our face and force us to face the reality. Oh, if you said the renewal of the za 1635 and 2470 are what you called a ‘new product’ 🙂
It seems like Sony has a good strategy . . . but I’m hoping they will not completely abandon the SLT range of cameras. I don’t expect them to make a bunch of new A-mount lenses, but a 50 MP camera would be nice. After-all, there are people buying Sigma Art series lenses for their A99 and A77 cameras, and a 50 MP A99 II would be a really nice addition. Actually, a 36 MP A99 II, with Wi-Fi, faster shooting, and better focusing than the A99 would be a good first release . . . some time this year. Then they could make an A99 III with the 50 MP sensor. I’d also like to see them put a 30 MP sensor in an A77 III, with both Wi-Fi and GPS. That would be a nice and welcome upgrade for people with a few A-mount lenses, who like the form factor, but not the $3,000 for the A99 II body.
I won’t even consider mirrorless until Sony makes one with Steady Shot, GPS, and a really good fully-articulating screen. Those are what I have in my A65, and I plan to get an A77 as my primary camera, keeping my A65 as a back-up. If Sony put all that in a fast-shooting mirrorless camera that was comfortable to hold and shoot, then I’d consider their mirrorless options . . . as long as that camera has weather seals, like the A77 and A99.
I dislike it when a company considers a camera to be a “consumer” product. There are PLENTY of professionals who use $1,000 cameras! WTF Sony?!? Is the A58 a professional camera? No. But the A77 definitely is, as is the A99 . . . even though they’re not at the same level as the Nikon D4s or the Canon 1Dx.