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An anonymous source told me the A7sII is close to the release and it has one major surprise. It will have “a new body design similar to the [shoplink 38993 ebay]Canon XC10[/shoplink]”. Don’t know if people will like the A7sII to have a XC10 alike design. But after the A7rII release I guess it makes sense to create a new more advanced design for the A7s to differentiate it from the A7rII.
He also told me it has a “Handgrip similar to the FS7 (lanc controller) for use on shoulder rigs or jibs.“.
If the rumor turns out to be true would you be happy having a “bulkier” but probably more ergonomic style?
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143 Responses
What would be the advantage of that? Seems rather dumb, why not keep the camera in a small format like the A7’s are now and allow people to add on additional components as they please. Is all of that bulk needed to process 4K in camera correctly or something?
Absolutely! If Sony were going to release a camera like that, they would do it under the FS line and not the A7 series.
That said, given the high regard for the A7S by video users, I could see Sony releasing a grip that would include all the bells and whistles needed, rather than a dedicated body.
Or VG.
I think a body redesign will be needed to provide adequate cooling for the chip and internals to run 4K video for extended durations or faster frame rates. Large-sensor video cameras have air intakes and large heat sinks, some even have built in fans. The XC10 has a large heat sink and an exhaust vent- see picture:
http://i.ytimg.com/vi/SViNXUZfoQQ/maxresdefault.jpg
please god no
Then clearly it wouldn’t be called a7S anymore.
If true, I would welcome it. Often, the cost of rigging a stills camera to make it practicable to shoot video negates any advantages. This would make it a video cam for those who occasionally shoot stills, as opposed to the rest of the A7 line. This would actually make me want a second body next to my A7rii as a primary film-making cam.
Sounds reasonable, it should have had a different body from the beginning.
Also, folks, remember the new Sony marketing strategy and sell your A7rII to buy the A7sII (assuming you’ve sold the A7s already) 😉
The benefit of my a7s is the small form factor that is really inconspicuous when shooting b-roll. I hope they keep that and the weight in mind.
I hope it’s not true, I really love the compact size of the A7 series. Just waiting for the A7sII, but won’t buy if if it is not compact.
No, I’m waiting for a photographic A7s II for shooting events, not some kind of camcorder. As a photographer, I dislike. But if they think that it would sell better… But to be honnest, I don’t believe at all in this rumor…
I want it for videography, and also hope it continues to be compact size.
I think the A7rII is basically what you are talking about, and that you’ll the the A7S line go even more dedicated to video in the next iteration.
Silent shutter and clean high ISO are both there with the A7RII. What improvements were you looking to see in an A7s II for stills?
An A7sII would be (I think) even better in low light, and I don’t really need 42 mpx. However, I agree that an A7RII could be a fine event camera. But I honestly don’t believe in this rumor. A totally different body would mean a totally different direction. A future 12mpx camcorder is a possibility, but I don’t think that it will be at the expand of a real A7sII… Sony recently told that they want to focus on 24*36, pro market including event photographer. So I don’t see them let down their low light beast, despite the encouraging results of their BSI CMOS… Wait and see.
Keep it thin as a7, a7s and a7r. The a7II and a7rii body size has reached the size limit. Anything bigger a7II would take away ultimate advantage buying mirrorless – smaller/lighter Vs traditional DSLR.
I could imagine to have a handgrip even 10 mm deeper than A7mkII and put a bigger battery inside. Because almost every lens we use is even longer than that increased grip it would not hurt the overall size, but the big-lenses are better balanced.
I want a small body, too. But in case of A7 series I would start to switch from DSLR-style to rangefinder-style, decreasing the height of the camera by 25mm.
Smaller/lighter is one advantage, but whether it is the ultimate advantage is in the eye of the beholder.
This is actually a really good idea if you think about it. The a7s was about having 4k and electronic shutter. Now that the a7rii has inbody 4k and electronic shutter and ISO performance that rivals the a7s, but with 42mp instead, there is little that differentiates the a7s line from the a7r and a7 lines anymore. To those that want the ‘original’ a7s to continue, it already exists in the a7rii.
It has been said several time that’s he a7rii’s ISO performance is not as good as the a7s’. The a7rii is not a replacement for the “origins a7s”.
The A7S still has better FF video performance and high ISO performance. It’s also a good amount smaller and lighter.
I just want the A7s2 to be a A7R2 with faster frame rates: 4K 60, 1080 240. Less skew. Programmable button to Aps-c mode. And an in-built ND.
In build ND cannot fit the A7 body. So it would be better if they do bigger more video friendly design. Although in-build ND will be huge as the sensor is huge.
FS700 is quite bulky in front to accommodate the ND
It would need a massive body to have built in ND for a 24×36 chip! Maybe they could do a permanently installed variable-density scenario like the motion-mount for Red- but that seems complicated and would be incredibly expensive- but it would certainly be innovative!
IMO this is a great idea for video shooters. You have all the controls you need at your fingertips without having to dig into menus. Dedicated one touch buttons for AF, IRIS, White Balance, built in ND’s plus you have a handgrip with all these features too (for me it would be amazing)
Also it may also be necessary for cooling (Newshooter has commented that their A7RII shut down during 4K recording after only a short amount of time) Again I don’t think the XC10 is a huge camera and I for one would have no issue carrying it around with me.
As the A7S is already (primarily) a video then stills camera IMO it would make perfect sense.
This is just my opinion, everybody has theirs so don’t take my comments personally !
Well that would make no sense. The point of having an a7 “series” is to ultilize economies of scale by sharing parts to keep costs down. Engineering a new/different body for a device isn’t economical if the device doesn’t sell many units. If anything Sony would use the A7rII body and create an attachment like their XLR attachment, that has grip controls.
I hope not as I’ve been waiting for the A7sII. If that happens, then I’ll be forced to buy a A7rII even though I don’t need the extra resolution.
I guess they want to make a pure video camera. It makes sense to increase size. They can fit better cooling, better card options – XQD may be? 2 SD card slots? and of course if you ever tried shooting video with A7 – hand held is just a joke…..
PS I almost forgot a much bigger battery.
A better grip is always welcome. A7rII has a grip that is still too small, though better than A7r. That makes the camera feel heavy. Check out the grip of Panasonic GH4. It is the most comfortable one, better than canon 5d, better than Sony a7rII
Hopefully it will be right in between a Black magic mini and a C100 for size/weight. I like that its going modular, should make it more versatile for a variety applications.
Big mistake to make anything look like Canon
The XC10 is actually pretty great. If it didn’t have the variable lens it would be quite a useful little camera for run-gun documentary work.
More likely to be a mini-C100 than an XC10.
A more modular design (seperate display / EVF) would make it more modular. It allows better cooling for high frame rate 4K and would make it the perfect camera for aerial (multicopter) applications.
“A more modular design would make it more modular.”
+1
Just kidding. I also think something modular like the red epic with all the accessory would be awesome for videographers. http://www.red.com/products/accessories
However, I don’t think that product would be called A7sII. Maybe the rumor is just about another videocamera with the A7s sensor..
Sorry, was typing faster than thinking…
Of course a camera in the style of the blackmagic micro cinema camera but with a stabilized 4K full frame 60 fps full readout sensor with 10 Bit 4:2:2 internal h.265 storage would be the wet dream of my multirotor copter!
Which multicopter are you using with what camera?
I’m long time follower of your site by the way, but just read topics about Sony and lens tests. Great stuff! Keep up the good work!
Thank you. Currently I am using the A7S on a 70cm hexa copter frame.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/hhackbarth/16833419944
You mean a QX7?
I like the concept on the XC10, but it should have a dedicated EVF.
I’m pretty sure that the Canon’s first mirrorless with EF mount (maybe a rebel) will be in the same form-factor.
NOOOO!!!!!!! The A7s is an incredible tool for wedding photographers. I have been dreaming of the A7sII with IBIS and an even better viewfinder and custom minimum shutter auto-ISO. PLEASE Sony!
an the A7rII can’t be that camera? Do you shoot weddings at 200.000 ISO?
I shoot dancefloors at about 16,000 right now, and beyond that it gets a little too sketchy. I would love to be able to use 25,600, and if they could bring all of the tech that makes the A7RII so good while having a high MP, then imagine what it would do on a 12mp sensor! Also, ain’t nobody got time for 50MB files all day.
Wow and imagine 15 years ago we used to do this just fine with 800 speed film pushed a little. Thats 3 more stops with the A7s and you’d like to go to 4?
I just dont know what that would look like or why one would need that…Maybe shooting 1/250 f4 with no flash on a dim dancefloor?
Weddings and dancefloors for me were Portra400VC pushed+1 rated ISO640, Set the camera to 1/30 f4 with second curtain bounced flash. Works just fine on every digital camera I’ve owned too, no worries about noise- just gold all night.
Working with 25,000 ISO just seems nuts, even the minimum output on a small flash would be crazy bright!
“Weddings and dancefloors for me were Portra400VC pushed+1 rated ISO640, Set the camera to 1/30 f4 with second curtain bounced flash. Works just fine on every digital camera I’ve owned too, no worries about noise- just gold all night.”
Thanks- I’ll be giving that a try.
Enjoy! The trick was to get the orange color of the room exposed way down so that you could see just enough detail, but then to have the flash working to freeze foreground and provide nice clean color. Depending on the room you were at 1/15 to 1/60. Now with digital I put CTO on the flash and don’t worry so much.
Haha, I hear that. As someone who started on film, myself, I can appreciate how insane it sounds for someone to be upset that they can’t use ISO 25,600. But I don’t care about film speeds, all I care about are the photos I’m trying to create, and I find I can get much better photos without using flash. The less people feel like they’re being photographed, the more they let loose. Plus, the fewer variables in front of me the more I can focus just on moments and composition.
I would love to just be another person on the floor and get the most authentic versions of people. Right now I shoot manual focus at 1/160, 1.4, ISO between 8,000 – 16,000, and to get that I have to use a video light. It would be amazing to have an extra stop of light to work with in there.
16000? Sounds too much for me. What f-stop are you using?
That’s at 1/160 at 1.4. Again, dancefloors with no flash can be crazy dark.
They made it- its called the A7RII and you can buy it right now!
I have to see how well the A7RII really does, but it looks so far like it doesn’t quite match the A7s, which is reasonable, but makes me that much more anxious for an A7SII. If Sony has the ability to make 42 MP look really good in low light, why not go for the best low-light possible and put all of that in a 12MP camera?
You don’t get the point do you? The ability to make 42mp good in lowlight is not the same of making 12mp good in lowlight.
For the 42mp they used backlight illuminated sensor, and this does not have effect on low mpx count sensors.
So A7RII is incredible resolution with very good DR and low light.
A7SII will be of course a little better in low light (because of the mpx count) but I mean, A7RII is enough. and you have IBIS so..
Whoa, really comin’ in hot, there, Wolf33d. Let’s break down your comment piece by piece:
1. I would say I do get the point. But let’s read on to find out.
2. I am aware that what makes the new 42mp sensor good in low light is not the same thing as what makes the 12mp sensor goood in low light. (except that both allow for more efficient light-gathering, so they are related).
3. “…this does not have effect on low mpx count sensors.” You’re saying that BSI technology only helps high mp sensors? That sounds incorrect. In fact, sharp-eyed readers might have already seen when you contradict this in the very next paragraph.
4. Yes, the A7RII does have great resolution, Dr, and low-light ability. This sentence almost seems unnecessary.
5. “A7SII will be of course a little better in low light” Aha! The real crux. So you agree that a BSI A7SII would be even better in low light. And certainly you realize, then, that I do get the point. And I think you became aware of that as you typed that sentence, because your next sentence seems to be back-tracking.
6. “A7RII is enough” Alright, so we agree that an A7SII with a BSI sensor would be better in low-light, but you simply think that I’m being greedy.
7. “and you have IBIS so..” And as if to wrap up my case for me, you remind me that IBIS exists. Sadly, however, it is In Body Image Stabilization, not In Body Subject Stablization.
Thank you for the rude comment, though.
“3. “…this does not have effect on low mpx count sensors.” You’re
saying that BSI technology only helps high mp sensors? That sounds
incorrect. In fact, sharp-eyed readers might have already seen when you
contradict this in the very next paragraph.”
It’s a question of diminishing returns. If fill factor was already very high due to large pixel size relative to wiring and/or good light guides, etc, then moving the wiring behind the sensor won’t improve things much. As I recall from Aptina’s white paper, their BSI design improved QE, not merely fill factor. So as for the other improvements which may be inherent to sony’s specific design, it’s anyone’s guess. The banner item, though, is increasingly more effective as pixels shrink, and vice versa.
Lol. Cool that you feel attacked and have the need to reply such a book to my message.
BSI is effective for high mpx only. And I did not contradict, I said A7SII will be better in low light than A7RII (as A7S already is and Sony will tweak a bit the soft and so on to make it a bit better anyway) which does not mean at all that A7SII will be better in low light than A7RII BECAUSE IT WILL HAVE A BSI sensor.
It won’t have a BSI sensor, and if it would, then this would not be the reason for the A7SII being better in low light than A7RII.
So except trying to take advantage of the fact English is not my language to play on words to make me say what I did not say, you don’t do much.
But anyway man, if you can’t shoot a party under 25600ISO and f1.4, you don’t need a BSI sensor, just rethink what you shoot and how you do it.
When reading your opinion I always come back to this comparison.
http://www.dpreview.com/articles/4613822764/high-iso-compared-sony-a7s-vs-a7r-vs-canon-eos-5d-iii
Difference was is pretty much only visible from 25600 ISO upwards and this was the old A7R. And I will argue that DR is visibly better from ISO 6400 downward on the A7R with less contrast but more shades of green for example. Maybe we should wait for the same comparison with the A7R II.
I’ll be honest, I truly don’t know what to make of that comparison tool. Because on one hand, it seems like you’re totally right, and at 12,800 it all looks pretty close. But then, this scene is very industrial with concrete edges and glass windows from half a mile away, and is very different from what I would shoot, like faces from a few feet.
And there are spots where it looks like the A7R goes weird with color, like here: http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/image-comparison/fullscreen?attr65_0=sony_a7s&attr65_1=sony_a7r&attr66_0=12800&attr66_1=12800&attr67_0=raw&attr67_1=raw&attr68=original&normalization=compare&widget=119&x=0.7921925929341251&y=0.9087789088975666
The only real response I have is that I much prefer working with 12mp files, and even though a resized image might look better, I don’t have the time to resize them. But you make a solid point, and I will excitedly test out the A7RII when I can get one and test it in the environment that would tell me the most about it.
It would make more sense if they made a new VG900 in that form factor, or a “VG700”.
Personally I care much more about how a camera looks and feels than how it functions.
But the a7sii will have to compete against Canon.
Listening to Canon blogs the biggest comlaints are thst Sony does not look feel and handle like a professional camera, and battery life.
It will be greatly advantageous for Sony to listen to Canon users and build a camera that they will be comfortable switching to.
I like the a7rii and am not likely to buy a lower res a7sii.
current Canon users will likely be important new a7sii customers since they can continue to use thier existing lens collection.
Newer af technologies…such as the recent 3d multy layer pd sensor patent…will bring Sony mirrorless autofocus to a level far faster and more accurate than anything a dslr can come close to…and these technologies will be available relatively soon.
It would not surprise me if this technology appears as soon as the a7sii…this sensor has 4 pixel layers plus stacked processors within the chip.
Layer 1 is bayer layer. This is the color pixel layer, single colors are absorbed and the rest pass though
Layer 2 is the first pd layer
Layer 3 is a white pixel layer…this increases dynamic range and sensitivity when interpolated with the color layer
Layer 4 is a second pd layer…this greatly increases speed and accuracy of focus when the second phase detect image layer is compared to the first one.
“Listening to Canon blogs the biggest comlaints are thst Sony does not look feel and handle like a professional camera, and battery life.”
Because for Canon users nothing less than a huge 1Dx tank “feels professional”… Most movies are filmed on focal lengths between 24 and 100mm. A small body is good enough for that.
Listeningto what Canon users like will sell more cameras than not listening to then.
I actually am more inclined to agree with then that cameras do not need to be miniaturized just because they are mirrorless.
A nice comfortable camera with large easy to use controls is far more comfortable to use all day.
Furthermore most pro cameras are used with larger lenses. Both fast lenses and long lenses.
Tiny cameras are best for photographers that want to sneak around and take pictures unobserved, but bigger cameras are better for photographers that want to be noticed and look professional.
If no one notices you no one will hire you.
Lastly a larger camera can still be lightwieght.
“…but bigger cameras are better for photographers that want to be noticed and look professional.”
Thanks for being honest!
Pretty sure that it’s only excuses to dismiss Sony.
Maybe there is a big aftermarket for “fake big DSLR body lookalike plastic and rubber cover for tiny mirrorless cameras”. Including a Canikon badge! I’m going to check on kickstarter, bye!
No need for it to be fake. There are plenty of things you can stuff into that body, like a larger viewfinder, electronics, wireless, card slots, bigger battery, ports, heatsink…
Although A3000 agrees with you that it can also be very fake as well.
“Personally I care much more about how a camera looks and feels than how it functions”
Did I read that right? Nah.
Fixed it, thanx
That is good and all, but then there’s no point in it keeping the “A7” badge, and might as well be named the “A8S” or “A9S”
No Sony, please!
Sony pushing up in to Canon’s own Cinema EOS range. Makes sense.
I suspect we’ll see a ‘normal’ DSLR-alike A7sii and that this rumor, if true, is a new category of body.
Question is, what native lens mount will it use? Will it be semi pro and stick with e-mount or go pro and use PL?
Very funny
This makes perfect and complete sense to me. As a doc and commercial filmmaker, I love using the A7s as a B-cam, gimbal cam, or main camera on low-key shoots. But, battery life, ergonomics, viewfinder, etc leave something to be desired.
I think the XC-10 is hideous, clunky, pretty meh and I hope they don’t go too far down that route, but why not an A7sII that looks more like the NEX-VG900? (http://goo.gl/Dxl1RW) – Basically, the A7rII specs + 120fps at 1080 + 60fps at 4K.
The A7s is touted primarily a video camera after all.
Also – some NDs, autofocus tracking like C100 MarkII, and higher bitrates. That camera would crush it.
Not worth putting out a nearrly identical A7rII for a bit more sensitivity or frame rates.
You’re talking about most of the $7000 FS7, Sony isn’t going that far with the A7sII. Guaranteed.
That’s true. Might be taking it a bit too far. But, a NEX-VG900 styled body with exact A7rII specs + NDs, better battery life, and 96fps or 120 fps at 1080 isn’t crazy (and still leaves a lot of room for FS7, which is much too big for more intimate doc shoots in my opinion).
I’ve been wanting a VG version of the A7s from day 1. That would be something, but it would probably cost $4000+.
For sure. That was the first e-mount, full frame right? Another huge addition would be the built-in stereo mic with the same hot-shoe as A7s.
Or, dare I say, an XLR output or two? I really just want an FS7 but half the size and weight – haha.
Not to go off on a tangent, but why don’t all digital cams have built-in NDs now?
Does anyone think we’ll get an A7III by end of year?
If I see another 7 series I’m gonna puke.
Can we get a proper 9 please…? Aside from the time Minolta merged with Konica, I can’t remember the last time Amount pro togs had to suffer a period without the most advanced camera on the planet. 9’s were always best tech and ergonomically superior to the best CaNikons of the era.
We had that even with a99 with best vertical grip and fully articulating screen… fabulous for low level vertical shots that simply cannot be accomplished with the Emount 7’s.
I bet a bottle of beer, A7000 and/or A6100 will be next and 3rd A7-gen will be announced not before 2016. I expect late 2016 or early 2017
I’m thinking the same. I don’t see this time around- any advantage for Sony to release yet another A7II. It’s still a hot seller and isn’t lacking anything- per se- someone who would want to get into mirror less. I need to switch out my A7 for that one.
Unlikely – the a7ii brought a lot to the table (enough to persuade me to upgrade from an a7). I don’t see what an a7iii could add at this stage. My money is on a mid 2016 release with bsi and much faster af performance.
Been there done that.
http://www8.pcmag.com/media/images/5803-minolta-dimage-7.jpg
Sony… Reviving the Minolta heritage one dissatisfied customer at a time.
I bet this is false. Changing the body to something like the XC10 doesn’t make it a A7 anymore, it makes it a camcorder. Sony already has a better solution – the VG10/20/30 style body. The ergonomics were really good, the camera was meh. If anything I could see them resurrecting the VG line – but this won’t be the A7sII.
Not that clunky in base form.
http://www.canon.co.uk/Images/XC10%20Default_tcm14-1252083.jpg
I need a A7SII not a camcorder !
Really doubtful. It would be unusable for low-light photography, essentially erasing the good rep sony got with the A7S, stranding the users.
Hahaha – this will never happen. Mark it SR0! The whole A7-series has same same battery grip and so the whole A7mk2 series has another batter-grip.
A XC-10 body would break this rule.
If there is a camera like this, it certainly gets another name and except of body-size and battery size it could be a technical spin off from A7Smk2 to reduce R&D.
I first thought “Bullshit”. But then again: The A7S is mostly used by video guys and Sony could support this. The A7RII is now good enough for low light shootings. If Sony cannot improve the sensor significantly, they may push for video instead. And why do they name it A7SII? Well, in Sony’s wicked marketing department, one could argue that you can still make photographs with it rather than with their camcorder series. Sony also merged their A mount and E mount series under one Alpha brand without any sense. And for further marketing reasons, a A7SII brand could attract more A7S users. So it might make sense and is not completely off.
I just can’t see it happening. Why would you keep the name but change the aesthetic to that extent?
SR2…
hopefully this will not happen (=
I’m not sure there would be a place for such a camera. Sony could release a VG body with the a7s sensor. There is the VG-series, the rx-10 II and the FS7. An a7II-alike a7s successor makes sense considering the shared investment of the 2nd gen a7II bodies. As a small camera it fits well as a compliment / 2nd body for FS7 owners.
The VG series seems as dead as can be. There are the Fs line fo cameras which are a bit more expensive.
Bodies are going to get bigger and bigger to FINALLY have features close to what A-Mount offers. They only made them small at first to get you off of your A-Mount glass and buy a plastic square body with a good sensor and a EXPENSIVE Toy Lens to go with it. (And you guys fell for it)
Based on A7RII’s Super35 4K performance maybe Sony could make the A7SII a 24MP camera with a 1:1 4K crop for Super35 – since the 12MP’s 4K crop is less than the 8MP necessary for 4K. Of course, that if they can put the same new tech for less rolling shutter and faster sensor readout, that way this sensor would be able to do at least 120fps in 1080p instead of only 720p and the Super35’s 4K of this camera with 1:1 pixel count could be superb.
Sony is struggling with the formafactor they chose for the A7 series, no wonder that the second generation went for something slightly bigger. If the A7SII is to become even more video focused, it needs to get better heat dissipation, otherwise there will be compromises and I think that this rumor may be Sony addressing their struggles with heat dissipation – something that has been ongoing since the original NEX cameras, I got the overheating messages more often than I wanted with the NEX I had and it wasn’t even for continuous long minutes shooting but several short videos. Moreover, most people use the A7S for video primarily, so making it with better ergonomics for video makes a lot of sense and it should be very welcomed.
Not true. Those of us who use it like it because of its size, secondly Sony isn’t struggling at all lol.
But now that you have the A7RII and it seems just as capable of rmost situations, even more in Super35 mode, I can understand if Sony takes this oportunity to change the form factor.
OMG. How “Sony is struggling with the formafactor*” became simply “Sony is struggling”? Proper text interpretation is really rare on the Internet nowadays or maybe it’s oversimplification, who knows? LOL
*formfactor related compromises: lack of internal 4K for the A7s, overheating reports and announcement setbacks, loud shutter, etc.
Would love to see an EVF that is shoulder rig friendly, which would seem in my mind require a modular / detachable unit. The problem with VG style is that it is at the back of the camera, you have to hold the camera out in front of you – feel the typical A7S user is a bit more advanced than yesterday’s DVcam shooter. The faux prism VF is the ONE thing that makes me gag on the A7 design.
Please God no.
It can be a bit more handy for video-use… BUT PLEASE, we dont want a camcorder, we want a Video-Foto-Hybrid with insane high-iso-performance….
This is a horrible choice. I was starting to move away from Canon because of the form factor/weight. Sony is making a bad move is this is the case. Will be buying the original A7S for a long time it seems like. Boooo Sony.
You can always make a small camera bigger but not the other way around.
I doubt very much that this will happen. A7S is popular among the video crowd, yes, but it’s also popular among low-light still shooters, like wedding and event photographers, and they’re not going to lug around one of these. I can’t see Sony willing to potentially lose that market. That’s not to say that it wouldn’t make sense for them to make a camera like this, but it would more appropriately fall under the FS or VG line.
A7S is predominantly used by videographers / or photographers interested in the video capabilities. The stills-only shooter is a very small minority. The A7RII provides very close still performance to the A7S for low-light, the A7S performing better for videography by a still-small (but critical) margin. As a video-centric shooter myself, today I’d still choose the A7RII over the A7S because I don’t like the high native ISO of the S. A7RII is a balanced all around camera. The A7S is a specialty tool.
I don’t disagree that different ‘togs have different needs, including form factor, but I think if there was a departure of form factor this extreme, it wouldn’t be part of the A7 series anymore, as the current form factor is part of the branding for that series.
I’d imagine that it could still stay in the same family with some minor changes. The A7000 may be having heat / cooling issues and a high-spec video performer like the A7SII could face the same thing – so perhaps there is some motivation from engineering to modify the body slightly, like thicker with air vents or even (silent) fans. The EVF position is also bad for videography, so people are generally adding their own finders. If they just placed an MI shoe on top with a plug-on EVF, that could also be extended via cable to a remote location, that would be a dream come true. When you look at such a camera, it would perhaps seem a bit more cube like and without a permanently attached center faux-prism EVF, would have a slightly different style – but don’t think they have to throw the baby out with the bathwater and use the existing A7 platform as the baseline DNA for the body / design. My own personal wish list would include 4KSDI I/O and LTC timecode input.
“The A7S is a specialty tool.” Exactly, which i think is why Sony can afford to possibly go that XC10/C100 (but non ENG) route to make this a better product for that crowd. Honestly, the A7rII is so fantastic I see no need to make a successor for the photographer crowd, unless they specifically want to improve things for videographers and filmmakers.
I would disagree as specialty use, A7S is the only Sony hybrid cam that doesn’t overheat, which A7R II still does unfortunately.
A concept like XC10 gives the Hybrid-camera a new sense: well suited for stills and videos in a single body. You even can turn your handgrip and make the camera a convertible. Yes – it makes sense to me. Having a really big handgrip, holding a really big battery makes very much sense for videographers.
But I am quite sure the name will not be A7Smk2 – maybe something like AC7S (Alpha Convertible 7 Sensitive). And A7Smk2 will come with a body like A7mk2.
Why not A8S? or A9S? or C7S? Or might as well make it completely different with the AC?
The best I can interpret into this rumor is, that the A7Sii comes additional in another body that is more video-friendly. Therefore the relationship of the name to the A7S, to show it is the same stuff inside.
That’s what the “S” logo is for, effectively. Making an A7 that doesn’t look or feel like an A7 is pointless and destroys the entire purpose of the A7 in the first place.
I call BS and in favor of keeping the standard body (as you know, my opinion is very very important, and really really counts). Personally, I have a custom cage built around A7ii (ready for A7Rii) and I was really looking forward to A7Sii that would be permanently incased in it! Fingers crossed this is BS.
XC10 was a dud, most people hate the economics and gimmicky features. Video crowd overwhelmingly prefers their own accessories and a add-ons, not the cheap-o factory ones (like the garbage grip on XC10 or that hideous clip-on “monitor”).
Good point. Why would they try to emulate a product that the user base largely yawned at?
I use the A7s for both professional photography and video and making it any bigger than the A7RII would kill the product for me.
booooo that thing looks weird. Just save it for a videocamera. I hope A7s still has the same design essentially.
Ok, the XC10 is silly but the canon cinema line is pretty great. If what the source meant was it would have that kind of form factor but be the size and weight of the XC10 that could be really cool. If you shoot mostly video. RED is taking stills more and more seriously and Canon has a user base who loves the ergonomics of the CX00 series. The FS7 is the ENG style, the A7S would appeal to this non-ENG crowd.
So many comments for SR2…
Small Info: A7sII is on facebook :
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Sony-a7SII/1460535714263740
For photos, I wont something like fuji or laica style. The new a7 looks worst than the previous. If its going to be A7sII it cant be that big, only horrible as the new a7rII
I do event photos and video and love my A7s for the max ISO performance and minimal weight. I purposely sold my Canon gear because it was a big lead weight. I can see the idea behind it, but I hope it stays the same A7 form factor. If you are going to change the layout, please make it like the Olympus EM-10 not Canon.
Please sony just improve the ISO, lets have 4k recording, sort out the AF & make it work with an external illuminator.
You are kidding, right?
Bull sh**
Form factor is less relevant than global shutter and in camera 4K… Those are the things missing.
I’d be happy with this. Love the a7S but would love to have an a7rII in a more ergonomic body with the a7s level of lowlight performance. Ultimate camera
And suddenly nobody remembers the “ugly fake pentaprism hump” rage…
I think this would be a great move and makes complete sense, if the new A7SII had a similar form factor, but not as bulky as the XC10 it would be fantastic.
Heres my reasons:
1. Firstly the A7S is probably used more for video than for stills (I may be wrong, but I don’t think so) for video shooters the XC10 form factor is more ergonomic as it has one touch AF, ISO, White Balance, Built in ND’s, Hand Grip (not great but could be improved) Touch Screen (for focus this is great)
Simply put you don’t have to keep reaching into a menu to change simple functions, for run and gun video this is huge.
2. The A7RII already has issues with overheating when shooting 4K (check out NewsShooters report) A bigger body would allow for better heat dissipation.
3. The basic XC10 is not huge by any means, a slightly bigger body won’t hamper any serious shooters, Video or Stills.
If done right this could be the first true 4K FF Hybrid Video and Still camera.
4. I think a handgrip similar to a FS7 is a brilliant idea, it would allow one touch access to all the major and most used functions without having to shift through a menu.
5. Because of it’s size this design will never be a shoulder mounted camera (or if it is you would need a rig) I don’t see this as an issue, the camera is not an FS7 so why not accept it and work with it.
6. There is no reason a slightly bigger body or design should be huge deterrent to stills shooters.
Some won’t like it (that’s ok) but I’d ask potential buyers to ask themselves one question. If a new A7SII (or whatever it’s called) was a little bit bigger and had a different form factor would it stop you from buying, or using it.
Could this be something revolutionary ? and if done right (like the iPhone )might people say it was a brave move and changed the way we looked at Digital Stills and Video.
Please feel free to disagree, but not abuse ! This is just my opinion !
I sincerely hope this is true an that the “source” meant to say C100 😉 No experience with the XC10 (and I don’t ever plan to use it), but its big brother the C100 is fantastic to use. Everyone complaining seems to be a hobbyist/enthusiast or a photographer and if you are in that camp, what can the A7sII give you that the A7rII honestly doesn’t already provide? Let’s be real the A7sII is going to be geared towards filmmakers and for them Sony can do 2 things to truly make the A7s sing: 1. Better battery life. 2. Built in, quickly changeable ND filters. That’s it. A removable, handgrip like the C100 would be awesome as well, but not necessary.
well if thats the case save up and buy an fs7, i think people are wanting the a7sII to not have a canon like body is because they want it to be discreet enough and easy enough to carry around.
Sony should make it more prepared for DRONES. It would be a big innovation and the market is asking for such product.
No it’s not.
no, that’s insanely stupid.. with drones in the limelight now because of stupid people using it and interfering with fire rescue, or any govt in the U.S.A you wanna put a camera on a drone that can pretty much see in the dark…. what are you gonna use it for? peep on your neighbors at night? drone/gopro is a good enough fit, inspire 1 sure, if you still not happy buy an ALTA…
If it does look like this, I won’t buy it.
I’m intrigued.
don’t cross the line that far, the a7 series is photocamera, not camcorder.
Form factor matters little to me so long as I can hold it. Give me in-body stabilization, global shutter and in-body 4K recording (WITHOUT OVERHEATING like the A7Rii) and I will say shut up and take my money. In fact, the news of the overheating is cause for me to consider canceling my pre-order of the A7Rii, especially if this is just around the corner.
I hope this is not true ><
The whole appeal of the A7S was the low light performance (stills and video) , and great video quality in such a small package.
If you want something bulkier there is the FS7 and FS700…
Whatever it’s going to be. It’ll be a awesome camera. It’s a frickin A7sII. After what sony had done with A7s and A7rII, A7sII will be the stabilized ultimate ISO king for both still and video. I’ll buy it 🙂 I need super ISO in addition to my D4 and D810.
According to testers of A7rII, apparently there are some overheating issues while shooting 4K video. If it is true, I guess one of causes is tight compact design and dispersing heat don’t play very nicely together. Whatever it’s design turns out to be, as long as it is purposeful, I wouldn’t mind at all. It’s a camera. I’d definitely take functions over appearance.
I’d be happy to see a traditional a7sII as well but from day 1, filmmakers and videographers have been drooling over the prospect of putting an a7s sensor into a more suitable body–so a camera that takes the next generation of the a7s’ sensor and put it in a body that could handle its video potential is far more exciting to many of us. I agree there wouldn’t be that much sense in calling it an a7 model but if the report is true–and there’s no reason to think it is–this is what so many of us on the video end have been waiting for: 1) A body large enough to dissipate the 4k heat, 2) perhaps even accomdate 10 bit 4:2:2 or anything better than the 8 bit flavor the cameras are stuck with now, 3) some sort of built-in massively adjustable ND filter, and 4) perhaps even an even more 4k friendly 8 or 9 mp sensor since this would be the video-forward take on a hybrid camera. That and 5) even better auto focus than the a7rii for steadicam shots, and every videographer in the world buys three of these suckers in the next 12 months.
I still think they should give the A7S firmware update for 4K and super Slo Motion. Also I think they should give the A7SII like 5,000,000 ISO so they can beat canon and price it a little bit more than a7rii.
Really, this would have to be one of the most dumbest rumors i have heard. Why would they waste money on designing parts to fit a different body. When the A7ii/A7Rii body has all the parts they need, just add a different sensor and programming and then you have it. Really this just doesn’t make sence. Also Sony doesn’t follow Canon and Nikon in any way what so ever. Also the XC10 has been massivly canned in the reviews as a peice of s…
I really hope this rumour is true. I disagree with posters who say it’s not needed. For one thing a redesigned (slightly) larger body would allow better heat dissipation. This is essential if the A7SII (or whatever it’s called) is going to shoot 4K Video. Overheating is a fact that can’t be overlooked, dealing with a camera that shuts down after 20-30min or overheats on paying jobs is something nobody wants. The A7S is primarily aimed at video shooters (not exclusively, but primarly) but is not optimised or ideal for this type of shooting.
A handgrip with access to key functions like WB, AF, AE, Frame Rates, FF or APSC mode, Zoom etc would make shooting so much easier, rather than scrolling through a menu each time you need to adjust anything. If this new camera was a bit bigger and probably slightly heavier would it really be such a deal breaker ? The XC10 is not an ideal camera but it’s not huge by any means. Personally if I could get all the above features plus built in ND’s, Touchscreen Control, 8/10bit 4:2:2 internal recording in a slightly bigger body I’d jump at the chance. This camera could be the first true hybrid FF 4K Stills and Video camera at an affordable price. IMO it would be a massive hit and could potentially be one of Sonys biggest selling cameras (if done right)
This is just my opinion please feel free to disagree, but not abuse !