.
Egami spotted the second Sony patent describing a semitransparent mirror that can be locked up to get rid of the small light loss. But I still don’t know if that is going to be used by the future A77II or A99II successor cameras. What I know for sure is that in the mid-term Sony will get rid of the semitransparent mirror as soon as the A6000 hybrid AF system proves to be as good as the current SLT solution!
P.S.: A77II will be announced next week (May 1). Likely specs: 24MP, 11fps, Wifi, super fast af, $1200 price.
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If they still eventing for Alpha, then A-mount aind dead!
Reality check — A mount is dead. Sony is pretending to keep it alive. They would rather turn off the life support and walk away.
I meant RUN away. As fast as they can.
Based on what did you state this comment?
Have you been under a rock or what?
You seem to have made that up, and now trolling with it. There is no advantage in E-Mount, to a vast A-Mount userbase. If A-Mount goes, E-Mount will follow suit, because a large % will start switching to Canon/Nikon/Fuji/Olympus.
Your beloved E-Mount will be dead within a year or two.
Sony will likely keep both systems for the forseable future.
This decreases the cost of developing a camera because the same technolgy and mayby even some of the same components are used in both systems.
E mount will not replace A mount and if A mount were discontinued the users would switch to other systems not E mount.
Sony has been tslking about a hybrid mount and if that ever happens it may put some of these issues to rest.
Currently. E mount is fully compatable ONLY with native E mount lenses and nothing else.
It is only partly compatable with other lenses.
This camera would have the ISO performance, and IQ of DSLR, and the EVF of a SLT. The design is a massive win for the A-Team.
No. Based on the information that I got from all over the net, I can easily conclude that A-Mount is not at it’s end of life stage.
Yeah, that’s why they paid for the patent. Just to pretend. A-mount isn’t going anywhere for the nex couple of years at least.
Apparently you can’t read. This is a thoroughly modern DSLR design that happens to have a semi transparent reflex mirror for the EVF, and a phase detection system.
Great, it’s just what I was hoping for!
After implementing mirror lock-up, they probably should also implement usual flipping mirror and matte glass OVF xD
No thanks.
Tales of the death of mirrors have been greatly exaggerated. There has yet to be any on-sensor system that is compatible with fast autofocus on traditional lenses. The A6000, the A7– they still use a mirrored adapter for fast AF on A-mount lenses. Even the Canon 70d live view system with phase detection in every pixel, is still slow compared to a mirrored phase detection system. I’m not saying these cameras will never go mirrorless, but it seems it is not around the corner for traditionally designed lenses.
Fully mirrorless might be just as good as traditional mirrors for specifically designed lenses, as with the A6000. In which case, Sony will need to decide whether to keep making a-mount cameras, purely for the market of existing a-mount lens owners. Or, IF and WHEN mirrorless systems can truly support traditional lenses, there will truly be no need to make native A-mount cameras anymore. (Is IBIS alone enough reason to keep the entire mount??)
I’m curious – what are the specifics about lens design that need to happen for on-sensor PD AF to be usable? Why is it so different with a mirrored version?
I don’t fully understand the differences myself except that e-mount lenses are designed to essentially allow contrast/phase hybrid AF while traditional lenses are designed to be pure phase detect.
There can be lenses that are better or worse for contrast or phase AF. That part seems right. But I don’t think there can be such a thing as a lens that requires a mirror in the camera to do phase detection AF.
From what I understand its just screw drive lenses and 3 party lenses, the On Sensor Phase detection uses special sensor built in to newer Sony brand lenses.
Basically any newer SAM/SSM Sony/Zeiss lens for A mount have these (because of the A99) and all the newer E-mount lenses (all the FE) have them.
I don’t know for certain if any newer lenses from Sigma or Tamron would work. I’d guess that sigma might, but its hard to say.
OK, but why? What is the technical story behind screw-driven lenses lacking something? Does the screw-drive lack the calibration of some kind or something?
They lack phase detect sensors (Distance encoder) in the lens which is fairly new tech.
There is nothing they can do to make older lenses for with OSPDAF.
There are only a 1-2 dozen lenses (Sony) that have them.
Sony 16-35
Zeiss 24-70 f2.8
Sony 28-75 f2.8 (maybe)
GII 70-200 f2.8
Zeiss 50 f1.4
Zeiss 135 f1.8
Sony 70-400
Zeiss 24 f2
Zeiss 85 f1.4
You can look on the lens Page on Sony.com, if it has
Distance Encoder : Yes
then it has the sensors.
http://store.sony.com/carl-zeiss-planar-t-50mm-f-1.4-lens-zid27-SAL50F14Z/cat-27-catid-All-Full-Frame-A-Mount-Lenses
I’m no expert on this, this is just what I’ve been told by a few people. It could be totally wrong.
I’m not convinced that’s correct. According to this doc:
http://www.sony-mea.com/microsite/dslr/09/standardLens/technology/technology_01.html
… distance encoder is just some feedback about the actual distance present in a particular focus setting. I never heard that there’s any phase detection going on inside any lens.
Also, the part that I really don’t understand is how is the mirror vs sensor PD story different, after reading how PD works. There’s nothing in the way PD works that requires a mirror on the way.
That’s all the info Ive been told. I’ve never cared too much to dig into it. But that only lenses that use the AF-D on the A99 are the lenses with the distance encoder.
The Mirror is because there are 2 phase detect sensors the the camera splits light to.
http://photographylife.com/how-phase-detection-autofocus-works
The mirror doesn’t split anything. The two beams of light come because of the lens aperture, so mirror is irrelevant – and it also should be irrelevant whether the actual PD sensors are separate or on-sensor.
The link you pasted shows exactly that.
The dedicated Phase Detection module area is larger than the area that On Sensor Phase Detection has.
OSPDAF on which camera?
What?
Apologies, I’ve just realised you were referring to light gathering area rather than focus point area.
Regardless, the small pixel-level light gathering area doesn’t appear to be a problem for the A6000’s focusing capabilities. It seems to excel at focusing.
It seems to excel at focusing on specific lenses that were designed for compatibility, combining phase detection with contrast detection. But if you stick on an A-mount lens with the LAE3 adapter, you will get very slow AF. Not claiming to understand why, and still have never seen anyone really explain it. But if it was really *that* simple, I’d expect it to have already happened.
The real test is comparing the A6000 OSPDAF to a dSLR in tricky low light conditions.
The AF will suffer on the A6000 compared to a dedicated PDAF module.
Currently the Mirror is there to split it to Phase detect sensors, thats all I was saying.
There isn’t a reason that it cant be on-sensor, that’s exactly why there are doing it. But for whatever reason on-sensor can’t work with onlder lenses. thats the only downside.
Even the the newer of the old Minolta lenses provide focus distance (ADI) info back to the body. Firstly put there to assist in flash exposure control.
Is there any information what have been added?
I just read the Sony-mea link, and the distance encoder referenced there have been around since ADI flash, which would , by carbon-14 method, date to around 1994.
I think the main issue with CAF on screw-drive lenses is backlash. CAF had traditionally required a lot of very fine back-and forwards micro-adjustment around the focus point as it zeroes in on the point of maximum contrast. Essentially it only knows it’s there when it has passed that point when contrast starts to deteriorate and the system needs to reverse the focusing direction very quickly and under fine control. Unfortunately, the gear train in a screw drive lens has a lot of inherent backlash which makes this impractical or, at best, very slow. Modern CAF compatible lenses have modern direct drive systems which essentially don’t have such backlash.
PAF systems work rather differently in that the phase detection system can work out in which direction it has to focus the lens and, in conjunction with information from and about the lens, it can predict how far off focus it is, and predict where to stop the lens. This means that it should not usually be necessary to reverse the lens as focusing point is approached.
Note that some people have determined that in the PAF systems aren’t truly “open-loop”, so this is a bit of a simplification, but it’s certainly true that older AF lenses weren’t designed for the rapid “hunting” motion of CAF systems.
Incidentally, I think lens distance encoding was introduced primarily as a means of getting correct flash exposure, not for focusing, as the previous TTL technique (measuring reflection off of film surfaces) won’t work with digital sensors as they are highly reflective (unprocessed film is matt).
http://www.sony-mea.com/microsite/dslr/09/standardLens/technology/technology_01.html#encoder
That doesn’t seem true…. Even SAM/SSM lenses do not get fast phase detection AF on the A6000/A7. They get slow contrast detect AF, unless you use a mirrored adapter. If it was so easy to make SAM/SSM lenses compatible with fast mirrorless AF, then why not on the A7 and A6000?
Maybe its not, I don’t know. They could just need to add the lens information in via firmware like they did on the A99, they could not work at all, or they are just not adding it to try to sell more FE lenses. No Idea.
The distance encoded lenses are all lenses that have eight contact points. They include the late Minolta (d) series lenses.
It is likely a business decision, not a technical one.
Hopefully IBIS isn’t going anywhere. I’d rather see it expanded. But the mirror has no fundamental optical or physical relationship with focusing specific lens designs. It’s just the historical circumstance of what has been done; nothing to do with what can be done with current sensor technology.
thing is that I see a lot of newbies shooting through the lcd and never using the viewfinder, so the af speed needs to be good in liveview, for which conventional dlsrs are bad,
Actually in the end it’ll all come down to profitability, the market’s acceptance of the product, and the buying habits of the end users (You know the people we forget about on these forums).
We’ve can’t make any determination on Sony’s direction until the other shoe drops. The shoe being the A-Mounts to be launched this year.
However you can rest assured that Sony is committed to both A-Mount, E-Mount, and its RX series of cameras. Anyone who’d believes otherwise is a fool.
The patent was filed in August of 2012… so this tells us what Sony was thinking 1 1/2 years ago. Plans may have changed dramatically since August of 2012. At that time, they were just releasing the flagship A99, and were anticipating releasing multiple dSLTs in 2013. It was before there were any serious on-sensor phase detect systems. Feels like the camera roadmap changed dramatically in 2013, with a decision to go “all in” on the mirrorless e-mount. We will see if May 1st brings a bit more focus to the A-mount. Since it is an August 2012 patent, if it was going to actually appear in a real product, I’d expect that to happen very soon, or never at all.
Sony has said they have been working on the A7(r/s) for years, well before the A99 ever came out. I doubt that anything that has come out recently has really effected their plans as of yet.
They develop lots of things for years. But actual product releases and marketing can be changed very quickly.
For example, look what happened with the a58 last year. Appears Sony decided at the last second to use it as a replacement of the a57.
Companies patent lots of things, often for defensive purposes. It may well just have been a means of keeping options open without being held to ransom by a patent troll. Of course, it’s likely that enforcing such a patent in law will ultimately fail as being “obvious”, but even if that was the case, it’s expensive (which is part of the business models of some patent trolls – namely cheaper to buy off than to pay lawyers to fight off).
You’d be amazed at the minutia that goes into patents. Look at the fights between Samsung and Apple — They aren’t fighting over 1 or 2 patents, they are fighting over dozens of patents if not more. It’s not a matter of patenting mirror lock-up mode — it’s exactly how that lock-up is achieved.
But yes, defensively, companies will patent EVERYTHING they develop. And they will often release the products before the patent is even approved (sometimes you will see a footnote ‘patent pending’). The fact that Sony “invented” this almost 2 years ago, and still hasn’t incorporated it into a camera, suggests to me it is in the garbage pile of ideas.
This patent was filed nearly two years ago – 30/08/12
Is there actually any relevance to the fact the publication date is 17/03/14?
BTW, didn’t the original SLT patents refer to mirror lock-up? It was never implemented when it came to production.
I’m not an expert but as far as i know the duration between filing a patent and being publicated is at least 18 months. So the 30/08/2012 sounds reasonable.
Could it be this is just for a user cleaning mode and not flipping up & shooting?
I was wondering that too.
If you think about it, Sony implementing a flip-up mode for max quality images is effectively an admission that SLT tech compromises image quality. I just don’t think it will happen.
Could be – I’ve knocked mine out a couple of times cleaning my a77…
Sony can call it a “Low Light Mode”. The only people that will know what it actually does are professionals or tech geeks (like me), who already know what SLT does and how it impacts image quality.
Actually that is a brilliant idea
I can already flip my “mirror” on my A57 for cleaning, so no I don’t think so.
Rendered meaningless by A6000
No it isn’t, you just fail to understand why it isn’t.
Just because something is patented does not mean it will ever come to market.
Nice catch and good to see. So much for a-mount being dead.
Should I still buy CZ 135mm f/1.8 since A-mount is dead?
I need something like this for E-mount
yea buy it, you can adapt it for E mount and if A revives, well, you got the lens already!
Ignore the shills, and trolls that have contaminated this forum.
The A-Mount isn’t going anywheres. It’s Sony’s only DSLR solution, and will be available until the mirror-less market manages to overtakes the global DSLR market by a large margin (which is probably never going to happen).
Mirror-less has been unable to generate significant sales in three largest camera markets in the world (North Americans, the Chinese and European) and now that their novelty has worn off consumers have gone back to DSLR.
However in the mean time while DSLR dominates, Sony’s SLT solution is becoming more efficient, and the SLT dedicated phase detection system , and AF is becoming faster in every successive generation
I’m always stroke how this sales figures never applies in the field. I’m not here to contest those figures and they are probably true, but I’m actually in Japan and was there during the whole period of Sakura which is over now.
During the Sakura period the chinese were, and by far, the number one tourist population in Japan and in many spots they actually outnumbered the japanese tourists.
the number one camera, no surprise here, is the Iphone/ Ipad (ridiculous) for about 50% of the chinese tourist. But the first dedicated camera they use is the NEX (mainly 3 & 5 series) which is about 20% of the chinese tourists I’ve seen (believe me I’ve seen a lot of them). They had other mirrorless camera but not significantly in number like the Sony’s one, in fact the number two in the mirroless segment is the Leica M (in a Roleix’s way).
My big surprise was the few DSLR since the chinese, and especially the wealthy one, are big show-off so I was expecting a lot of 5D mkIII or D800e but no, very few of them and when they had a DSLR it was in majority Nikon.
The big let down here was that almost all the americans and europeans tourists use exclusively there smartphone as their primary and sole camera, very few of them had a dedicated camera.
The hope come frome the japanese, there wasn’t a day without encountering a japanese guy in the street with a medium format camera (mainly Mamiya and Pentax) taking pictures and in general they were the most well equiped population. They also use phone but it’s a disease they had long time ago even before the smartphone/social media age because of their ketai (a flip phone that was a kind of smartphone before time) and it doesn’t seem to arm the dedicated camera market.
No scientific figure to back-up my says, just my observation during these three week in Japan so no need to argue unless your also in Japan and had an opposite analysis of the tourist equipment.
oh by the way my actual equipment is: the Sony Alpha 7r + the 3 Zeiss (35, 55 and the 24-70).
AF tracking is the only remaining benefit of DSLR and SLT. Mirrorless AF is improving much faster than DSLR/SLT AF is improving.
Since the mirror doesn’t confer any actual physical advantage, but only tradition and established engineering, I don’t see how it can hold on against mirrorless much longer. At some point soon mirrorless AF Tracking will be just as good and then the transition will be fairly fast. A6000 is already better than most DSLR AF Tracking in anything near the price.
A-Mount is not just about the mirror. The mirror is the smallest part of it and most of us with A-Mount investment actually want OSPDAF to improve enough, to be used in A-Mount without the mirror.
Main advantages of A-Mount right now are:
1) IBIS
2) Lens Selection
3) Lens Prices
4) Tracking AF
5) Egronomics (can also be done on E-Mount, aka A3000)
Don’t think I’ve forgotten anything.
If OSPDAF will be able to support all legacy A-Mount lenses, which it currently doesn’t. A-Mount will drop its mirror, but will not dissapear, due to IBIS advantage.
The OSS disadvantage of E-Mount will keep alot of A-Mount users away. E-Mount lenses also seem to be more expensive than A-Mount equivalents, for the most part.
Stan. I agree. I’m all for A mount with lens selection, lens price and IBIS. Personally, I don’t enjoy the larger form in terms of ergonomics, but that’s me personally. I’m just saying a time will come fairly soon when there’s no point in having a mirror in A mount cameras.
There will always be a point to having a mirror for A-mount because A-mount lenses aren’t optimised for OSPDAF and Sony aren’t about to support every A-mount lens from every manufacturer, they barely support their own lenses on the A99 hybrid AF right now.
First of all, we don’t know if lenses are at fault or just camera firmware needs updating. So far, based on A99, it seems like just the firmware.
They don’t need to support Sigma, since Sigma doesn’t license anything from Sony. And they don’t need to support Samyang, since they don’t make AF lenses. They do however need firmware support for all current A-Mount lenses from Sony and Tamron. Sony’s 15% stake in Tamron and all that good stuff…
It is however in Sony’s best interest to find a common ground with Sigma on licensing, as Sigma has alot of lenses that Sony doesn’t.
As I say, A-mount lenses are not designed to work with hybrid AF.
On E-mount newer lenses are designed for OSPDAF, some older E-mount lenses had a LENS (not camera) firmware update applied to them when the NEX-6 was released.
In the case of the A99 hybrid AF an A-mount lens can not be updated. The camera body has to have the lens information in it’s firmware for EVERY lens and this ain’t gonna happen, Sony will not maintain a list of all legacy A-mount lenses from every manufacturer, it probably isn’t even possible as A-mount lens ID’s aren’t unique.
It’s the reason why we still have the mirror for A-mount lenses and it’s the reason why A-mount lenses on the A6000 will not focus as fast as native E-mount lenses will. They simply aren’t designed for it.
This confuses me. Why would there be a lens that works with PDAF that would not work with OSPDAF? They support PDAF on all those lenses now. Why would they not continue to do it just because they remove the mirror? People seem to assume some inferiority to on chip PDAF, but fundamentally, there is none.
The DSLR is meant to be a thoroughbred not a donkey. Any compromise in its performance is not acceptable to its users.
The mirror gives the DSLR ability to have a much faster dedicated phase detection system which outweighs the benefit of an integrated system. Any compromise in the phase detection performance is not acceptable to its users
Dedicated systems are much faster, and are continually upgraded at a much faster pace.
Onboard phase detection systems come at the expense of Dynamic Range. Compare the A6000 sensor to the four year old NEX 7 sensor, and compare the numbers. Its performance is worse. Any compromise in Dynamic Range performance is not acceptable to DSLR users.
This patent allows the SLT to flip away the mirror like a DSLR, giving it the increased ISO, of a conventional DSLR, and squashing any hope of mirror-less to take significant market share away from professional DSLR users.
Why or how could they get a patent on a semi-transparent mirror lockup? Patents are supposed to be for novel things that someone in the field wouldn’t take for granted as a common knowledge…. A semi-transparent mirror lockup would seem pretty obvious as it is just alike a mirror lockup only its a semi-transparent mirror. Has anyone bothered to read the full details of the patent? I don’t see this as anything novel or new?
There’s usually a technique on how the mirror would be positioned, angles, mechanics involved, etc. Its not as simple as “My camera will lock up it’s mirror, now i’ve got a patent”.
Sony A7s gets a pricing in Australia (3499 AUSD).
No, Sony has not announced any prices in Australia. Another guess from a retailer.
Can someone pls tell me which has better bokeh for portrait, 135mm f1.8 prime lens or 70-200mm telephoto lens?
If your serious about portrait photography buy the 135mm STF, and a Minolta 85mm f/1,4 G (d)
+1
135STF is the absolute, uncontested king of bokeh. No other company makes a similar lens. Sony has revived it when they purchased Minolta. It is originally a Minolta design.
It is a manual focus only lens though due to its apodization element. Its dual arpeture will make you scratch your head, until you figure out how it works. 🙂
It took me a week to get the hang of it. Now I use it exclusively alongside the Minolta 85mm f/1.4 G (d) for portrait work.
If you are serious about portrait photography you’d already know the answer…
wow dont be so rude dude! I’m asking for a 2nd opinion from others because 2 minds are better than one.
I was going for carl 135mm 1.8 for lowlight and bokeh. I’m also thinking about getting the 70-200mm 2.8 for conveniece since i can zoom it in and out when shooting indoor and at the same time i can get good bokeh on a FF.
the 135 STF is kinda dark with an f4.5 so im not sure if it can be used indoor unlike a flexible 70-200mm.
This will answer your question. There are Bokeh sample shots at the bottom.
135/1.8
http://kurtmunger.com/sony_135mm_f_1_8_carl_zeissid266.html
135/2.8STF – King of bokeh
http://kurtmunger.com/sony_135mm_f_2_8__t4_5__stfid268.html
70-200G
http://kurtmunger.com/sony_70_200mm_f_2_8_g_reviewid219.html
wow that kurtmunger.com site is awesome! I LOVE U!
This patent has been arond a while and in fact was previosly posted on sar.
The new stacked 54mp ff in 2015 will probably be mirrorless. The a77II may possibly be the last or nearly the last slt.
If Sony is ever going to make a flip up mirror now wouldbe the time.
The new mirror will only reflect 2p% of the light compared to 30% in the current ones so even without flip up less than half anf stop will be lost.
It appears this camera should be an overall slight upgrade from the old a77…but if it isonly 24mp instead of 32mp then there will be no improvement in resolution.
The a77 was a great camera and if you dont own one this camera the a77II would be a great camera to buy.
If on the oyher hand you already own the a77 or a65 this is too small an upgrade to warrent trading up…especially since the 54mp stacked ff in 2015 will probably outperform this camera in every way.
At 32mp and a reasonable price I would probably get one just to get some better telephoto pix this year whe waiting for 2015….otherwise I will pass.
Publication date: 17 of march 2014.
When was it on SAR?
He’s probably confusing it with a 2009 patent. See Zohee’s explanation above.
I remember previous flip-mirror patens as well. It was on SAR about a year or 2 ago.
“If on the oyher hand you already own the a77 or a65 this is too small an upgrade to warrent trading up…”
Until we know full specs and what range of improvements there are, then you have no idea whether or not it is worth the upgrade from the A77. There is more to photography than resolution.
“The new stacked 54mp ff in 2015 will probably be mirrorless.”
Well indeed, ALL e-mount cameras are mirrorless… 😉
You’re confused with the patent filed in 2009 that was posted on SAR (and first published) december 2012. It did not go into detail on how to solve the fact that the oversized (the FF beamsplitter is about the size of a medium format camera reflex mirror, which has to fit inside a FF sized mirrorbox) SLT mirror will not simply flip up without hitting anything.
This one was filed in 2012 and published just march 2014 and wasn’t posted before.
All the rumors about different transmittance ratios and new stacked sensors are still rumors (obviously Sony has small sensors using stacking technologies, but just like BSI, that likely won’t see daylight in APS-C or FF sensors anytime soon) and could be for a very long time….
Are you saying that what I saw was a similar patent and that this is actually a newer patent?
When you say this was posted before on SAR, the only patent you could be referring to is the one mentioning a flip up mode (filed 2009, published 2012).
This one describing “cut outs” to make the oversized beamsplitter fit into the mount when flipped up, is indeed different or should I say, more specific.
Nice patent, however this isn’t going to be in a camera anytime soon. The next generation SLT mirror only uses 20% of incoming light and the following generation will only use 10%.
I don’t think we will see further generations of SLT APS-C bodies after the A77II and maybe a minor updated A58II.
After this, it’ll be A-mount on full frame bodies with Sony pushing us APS-C users to E-mount and adapters.
I think the A58, and A65 are going to get tossed this generation, as Sony eliminates its consumer A-Mounts.
Semi-pro will remain strong for the foreseeable future. If anything Sony may launch a second APS-C semi-pro.
The A77 is Sony’s best selling, and most profitable and has a very strong market with Macro, and Large Telephoto-Zooms users.
Being an A77 user I hope you are right, but I get the feeling that Sony are more interested in keeping A-mount and SLT going for full frame users after this “minor” A77II release.
Over the years Sony have repeatedly demonstrated their inability to understand their dSLR users. In two years from now they will simply put an E-mount on the next A7X body and move out of the APS-C A-mount business and maybe by then, even native A-mount full frame.
Sony is only interested in money and the A77 has always been a cash cow for them. It’s what A-Mount users upgrading from a earlier models will most likely buy.
They won’t compromise its performance under any circumstances.
Plus it’s going to be a long time before FF cameras reach the APS-C price point.
The A77 is versatile
I keep a APS-C (A77) along side my two full frames in my Pelican case. It’s used mostly on my 70400g, 70300g, 500f80, 50mm macro, 100mm Marco.
I also employ it in adverse weather conditions with the 1650, when the overpriced unsealed 2470 is at risk of succumbing to the elements.
I doubt that the A77 has been a cash cow, it’s probably just about got its development money back for Sony. The A77II will be an exercise in manufacturing cost reduction, like the A58 and the A35/A37. It’ll have cheaper materials and internals to boost margins.
I would have thought that the vast majority of A-mount users have just the kit lens and a cheap tele-zoom, they are most likely to change to anything other than the A77 or any other dSLR for that matter.
New users is where the money is and they aren’t buying Sony SLT or NEX, they are still buying CaNikon because Sony aren’t pushing SLT at all and haven’t been since the A55.
I think the A77II might be a shocker in terms of what they remove from the A77, but I hope that I am wrong.
That would suck royally but it’s these sorts of comments that have me tracking Nikon rumors. It was my 2nd choice when I bought my a65 and I’m starting to regret my decision.
This patent has been here before already, why does the Admin repeat this now ? there are no rumors of reall spec’s at all of the new A77m2, so this is no rumor site no more, it give nothing new again, only old rumors, it’s just sad.
It was about time…
What do you mean by saying that Sony will get rid of the SLT in the mid-term?
Not likely, Sony has just dropped a ton of cash on pellicle mirror technology. Canon has also patented similar technology in November.
The next mirrors use 20% of incoming light
The following will use 10%
Source?
As soon as Sony can go full mirrorless, i.e. if/when they can get all or most existing A-mount lenses to focus using OSPDAF, they will drop SLT. The mirror exists purely for focusing and is basically nothing but a stopgap.
F2F with a highly reliable source.
Source protection, it’s a rumour forum, and people can lose their real world jobs if you out them. I don’t know who you are so there is no way in he!! I’d tell you.
Not likely, they’re already working on third generation SLT mirrors. If anything they’ll create system where the mirror flips like a DSLR to keep the dedicated phase detection system.
The on chip phase detection comes at the expense of dynamic range, which is why the dynamic range of the A6000 is lower that the four year old NEX-7 sensor. Two steps forward one step back. Ha Ha Ha.
The new Sony DSLR patent is perfect. I can’t wait to see its improved IQ, and ISO performance, and most importantly Dynamic Range.
Ah no… that sounds like the musings of a threatened A-mount user. The A7 and A7r have excellent Dynamic range with plenty of on sensor AF points…Not that I have personally used the A6000 (so am taking you at your word regarding dynamic range)..But the fact that the A6000 is a consumer camera for the consumer market. Sold for a much lower price. Has more to do with the sensor designed for this camera, and therefore related dynamic performance. Than the on sensor AF points…etc…etc
You seriously think they are going to introduce some kind of DSLR style flipping mirror? Talk about going backwards. Do that and the main advantage of SLT (permanent light to the AF sensor and high FPS) disappears.
OSPDAF and SLT mirror does not affect Dynamic range to any noticeable level. If you’re basing your claims on DXOMark, the difference between NEX-7, A77 and A6000 are within margin of error. You should worry about your compositions rather than worrying about less than 1/3 EV dynamic range. The A77/NEX-7 sensor is just over 2.5 years old.
This is great. I’ve actually thought of just that for a long time now. This way, you could choose between the current SLT way of shooting (fixed mirror), the traditional SLR way with EVF (slightly better low light performance, but more camera shake), or mirrorless (at the expense of slightly worse (?) autofocus).
That might seem a bit silly, but I think it would please everyone.
I’m really worried that Sony might drop the A-mount soon, though. Third party manufacturers are really distancing themselves from Sony right now (Sigma 18-35mm STILL not out yet, Tamron 150-600mm won’t be out until June, no Sigma 120-300mm f/2.8 Sports for the mount at all), and the A77II is the one and only announced A-mount camera right now.
You have reason to worry. We all do.
There is no reason to worry. Mirror-less adoption rates in Europe, North American, and China are poor. Most remain the back-up camera. DSLR continues to dominate for obvious reasons.
Like Boo said, “The A-Mount is Sony’s only DSLR solution, and Sony is unlikely to replace it”
The DSLR market still represents 82% of all interchangeable lens cameras and Sony’s 7% sliver though relatively small compared to Canon or Nikon is larger than its third place share of the global mirror-less market.
The A-Mount cameras have 50% more margin than the mirror-less. So they still earn 50% more from each A-Mount sales, than the E-Mount.
“You don’t kill the goose that lays the golden eggs”
A SLT with the option to flip the mirror away like a conventional DSLR would give the camera user the benefit of the increased ISO performance, an outstanding EVF, and a much faster AF.
Its an all around win win for Sony, and the A-Mount.
However such a step forward for Sony would relegate the mirror-less camera to what it was designed for, which is compactness, portability, and in no way a replacement for the A-Mount, which is what Sony has been openly saying for three years.
Seems you’re the only one who remains optimistic on this forum 😀
The E-Shills, and Trolls haven’t dampened my moral. Plus I’ve had a little F2F with someone in the know, and now I have a slightly better understanding of what’s coming this year for the A-Mount.
So start saving
Sony is stuck between a rock and a hard place. SLT is a great technology and still very promising. It’s also polarizing for many users who view it as a crutch to both ISO speed and IQ. For it to survive they need to make it flip up. Silence the complainers sony!
I agree, it is the only logical way forward and long overdue!
That would be an excellent idea. The SLT with the ability to flip the translucent mirror when taking shots would definitely be a better solution than DSLR, mirror-less or SLT.
Wouldn’t there be calibration issues?
It would have to account for the difference in amount of light reaching the sensor. ISO100 would essentially become ISO130. They can cheat their way out, by just correcting with the shutter speed, but then there may be people, who will complain of misadvertisement, that ISO
…doesn’t match advertised value.
Its Sony they’ll find some way to worm around it
Well, dialing back sensor gain in firmware is the easiest approach. To a user, this would result in cleaner high ISO images.
I don’t understand, to me it’s just like to good’ol days, with different ISO films.
This camera ( or all SLT’s) just have a slightly less sensitive film inside.
I had no idea the SLT acted as a polarizer. Flip it up!
I would really like an A99 with a flippable SLT and a pivoting screen.
Better yet, an A99 with a standard mirror and pivoting screen. A 36+mp A900 with live view and a pivoting screen.
Best yet, a 36+mp mirrorless A900. Oh, yeah…
That patent won’t work without changing the mount. The mirror hasn’t got room to flip up with a lens attached.
Irrelevant anyway. SLT has got year or so at most before OSPDAF makes it completely unnecessary. The a6000 is 70% there already.
Revolutionary this is Sony at its best.
This is not a SLT design, its a 21st century DSLR design. The mirror maybe semi-transparent but its a reflex design.
The mirror would rotate like a DSLR, and giving the high ISO performance of and IQ D800 while keeping modern features like a EVF.
“That patent won’t work without changing the mount. The mirror hasn’t got room to flip up with a lens attached.” – A900. Look how mirror works in that DSLR. It can work identically in SLT.
“SLT has got year or so at most before OSPDAF makes it completely unnecessary” – keep jokes comming. OSPDAF is years, years behind full-size PDAF. Especially in low light conditions.
OUTRAGEOUS! PLEASE APOLOGIZE SONY!
Nice
This is innovation at its best, and a work of sheer brilliance. This camera would be a complete show stopper.
It would give cameras like the A77 a massive increase in ISO performance, while maintaining its fast AF, and burst speed.
About 6 weeks ago, SAR had a link to a guy who removed the mirror from his a99. The noise differences in the before and after photos were subtle – a half stop at ISO 1600 at most. The sensor in the a77 is fairly noisy ( by 2014 standards), the SLT isn’t really the culprit (though it doesn’t help).
Noise is becoming less and less of an issue every year as new sensors are released. If SLT can deliver superior AF performance vs OSPDAF, the increasing sensitivity of sensors will make the light loss irrelevant. For instance, if the a7s sensor is utilized in a full frame a-mount, would the SLT light loss make a difference?
Well I guess the E-Mounters anti-A-Mount rhetoric is once again proving to be a work of science fiction rather than fact.
I agree the A77 is noisy for 2014, but in 2011 it was revolutionary. You’re right its sensor is overdue for a replacement. I hope the A77II update improves upon this already impressive camera.
“This is innovation at its best,” – Nope, Sony has at least 2 other similar patents, first of which was released before A55.
“massive increase in ISO performance” – nope, just 1/3 EV
Looks to me like Sony foreseeing possible moves by their competitors. (how does canon/nikon transition to a post OVF world without screwing their EF/F mount.) Well Sony may have just patented your solution already….
When the people want to take the pictures of Person or Landscapes. The semi-transparent mirror can locked up,then the light will directly without any losses reach the sensor. Consequently,the very high quality of the photos will have very little ISO noises.
When people want to quickly focus to take photos,let the mirror down,the AF application works,definitely the speed of focus will be extremely high！
Innovation! It is the combination of DSLR and SLT!