T4i vs the new SL1 and vs the mirrorless EOS-M size comparison image via Dpreview.
In the DSLR world Canon is certainly way stronger than Sony. But it is also truth that Canon wasn’t able to strike a home-run with their EOS-M mirrorless system. The Sony NEX system is way more mature and has more appeal than the current Canon offering. And it seems to me that today Canon is trying a new way to fight back against the mirrorless (and NEX) success. They launched the world smallest APS-C DSLR with the new Canon EOS 100D/Rebel SL1. Price specs and preorders are up at Amazon, Adorama and BHphoto.
It has to be seen if that will really help. My instinctive answer is NO. But you may have a different opinion…
108 Responses
EPIC FAIL!!!!
LOL I would be even scared to name it in the same sentence as EOS-M, if I was in Canon marketing somehow.
It’s a brilliant concept… basically a small camera with a real grip, and LAEA lens adapter built in, providing better usability than a NEX with most of its lens size options.
It will sell to Soccer Moms and Professionals alike. Great job Canon, and kudos to you for not bowing to the window dressing mirrorless poser craze so much so that it causes you to lose sight of your DSLR lineup. And especially bravo Canon for the metal lens mount, and understanding the value of it just for the perceived marketing benefits alone.
Sony would have a direct competitor, had they not abandoned the original a33/55 form factor. Especially by now, years later, had they improved the EVF to current capability. Yet instead they decide to grow bloated and plasticky, with less and less accessories and third party support with every new ill conceived model released.
It’s as if they’re trying to kill Alpha legacy by the slowest humiliating death of a thousand cuts.
So what you’re saying is it’s pretty much an A37 with a smaller grip. Which it is. Sony, Pentax and Nikon have already been down this route before, as has Olympus.
Now lets just see if it’s really a new sensor or if it’s just got a new revision of Canon’s lousy 18MP sensor which originated in the 7D (like the T5i does). I find it increasingly pathetic that Canon’s APS-C sensors are visibly inferior in IQ to my OM-D (there’s not even a close comparison to my NEX-7).
Thom Hogan has an opinion http://www.sansmirror.com/newsviews/dancing-with-elephants.html
Senile rumblings is what he’s got there…
er, no. It sums the market up pretty well. He isn’t talking about how the MARKET will react, not the relative performance of each system.
He *is* talking… I wish we had an edit.
Thom usually has some good insight into the market, and good business acumen. He raises some good points. But I think he may have overlooked a few key ones:
1) Sony’s corporate culture of innovation is a great advantage that shouldn’t be discounted. Sony is sure to continue to bring many more innovations to the table. Canon, by contrast… not so much. Canon crushing Sony in a way reminds me of IBM thinking they would crush Apple.
2) Size isn’t the only advantage of mirrorless. The ability to adapt legacy and other lenses is a growing niche.
3) If Canon is an elephant some might say that Sony is a cheetah, and that rather than being in a room they are on the open plains.
I guess time will tell…
It will sell, no problem with that. But they will be competing with themselves as Olympus left that niche.
dpreview says in their hands-on:
“The focusing speed of the updated hybrid phase and contrast-detect design remains unchanged, which unfortunately means that it still lags behind current mirrorless cameras from Sony, Olympus and Panasonic.”
My opinion:
Noone that owns their lenses would step down to the entry-models and for new users in the market a mirrorless System from Sony or others would be better in all ways. So for me that’s another complete pointless camera from Canon.
This company is dead in 5 years if they follow their “strategy” like that.
I’m considering Stepping-Up to the SL1 from my present xxD Canon cameras. I love my NEX-5 sensor, but I won’t buy a NEX-6 or NEX-7 due to the lack of a Sony Auto-Focus 85mm lens. So getting a SL1 to use with my EF 85mm f/1.8 lens makes sense to me, even if it makes no sense to you.
There are Sony A-mount 85mm lens that you can use on the NEX with lightning fast AF.
Using ANY ADAPTED lens is NOT a solution. WTF would I want to use a big/heavy a-mount lens on a small/light NEX.
It would be the same size of your Canon. BUT, you will have a better sensor, a better autofocus, a better build quality and a nice large EVF.
The 85mm is not a good reason.
EPIC FAIL from Canon
Why can you accept using an equally big lens from anoter brand, both demanding the same distance between sensor and lens?
I’ll grant you that on a smaller NEX body it may look like the lens extends more, but that’s just appearence.
@E, a Canon 85mm f/1.8 weighs 16 Oz and the A-mount 85mm f/1.4 weighs 1 Lb 7 Oz (23 Oz) plus the LA-EA2 A to E adapter an additional 7.1 Oz for a total of 14.1 Oz heavier than the 16 Oz Canon lens. A not insignificant amount.
Have you even held CZ lenses in general? theyre not what I call light, also theyre way better than what canon has to offer.
Well, you are comparing an f1.4 lens to an f1.8, so of course the f1.8 lens will be lighter. If small and light is what you want, just wait a couple more months for the e-mount 85mm f1.8 to come out, which will be less than half the weight (and most likely smaller size) than the Canon equivalent.
@ETHAN, yes I’ve held many Zeiss lenses … and shot with them as well. I’ve also used Schneider, Kinoptic and Cooke lenses.
What is your point??
You would want to use it because it produced the image quality you want.
The weight of a lens is the least important feature.
The 85/2.8 is tiny, light and optically comparable to the 85/1.2L at comparable apertures (yes, really. even wide open it compares well to a $2K lens stopped down 2.5 stops).
I’m rather ambivalent about getting the upcoming E 85/1.8 OSS as the 85/2.8 SAM is just that good.
@ Don Cox, I’ve never had a magazine or an advertising client complain about the quality of the Canon EF 85mm f/1.8. There are lots of commercial shooters who DON’T use either Zeiss or Canon L lenses.
@ Hans, every camera company that thinks the future is Full Frame is dead in five years.
It seems pretty comparable to the ∂37, accept for the touch screen, slightly higher resolution, and price.
*except
The A37 has an inferior screen. I use one and really really hate the screen.
That said the A37 has better AF (I have used Canon’s entry level cameras and the AF is pretty bad), higher fps, much bigger viewfinder and is much cheaper to boot. Even the A58 is much cheaper and the A58 is also a brand new camera.
Actually it is probably closer to an a35, which had the better screen but didn’t articulate just like this crap box. At least the Sony’s have decent live view – Something none of the others for all their expertise can even remotely match.
Canon’s LV implementation is remarkably good considering the limitations of the DSLR platform. You can’t match LV on an SLT though without pretty much taking the SLR mirror out of the equation.
Fan boys will buy it for their kids…..
…and wife.
This is a very crafty move and people here are missing the point by comparing it to mirrorless.
Canon will sell a lot off them. More cameras are sold to casual photographers than to fan-bois (or fanboi family mrmbers).
I’ve seen a Canon Australia/New Zealand video showing a man with a T5i and a woman holding a SL1, so you can easily see the thrust of Canon’s marketing.
Too high priced. And too small for a mirror camera based on feedback from A55/33/37. Sony even canceleed A38 becasue of that – people want STR/SLTs to be more bulky that that, while the smaller sise is Mirrorless domain.
World’s smallest DSLR? Failed for Olympus (E-4xx), failed for SONY (lesse SLTs), fill fail for Canon.
Fail? No chance. It has a Canon badge and soccer mums will buy it by the truck-load.
Canon logo is all the marketing it needs… It’s more of a surprise that they’re admitting defeat on the Eos M. It’s like the nex caught them off guard and they had to rush something to market to compete, but completely missed the point.
There has never been an A38.
Andrea have received a mail saying some thing like:
“The replacement for A37 and A57 is coming soon!”
And it was read like two cameras was coming, but in fact it was only one.
/E
Sony site?
Isn’t this a Sony Site for Sony info?
Why should we care about Canon announcements?
A78 Specs or progress appreciated
SONY A78 specs and dates appreciated
FLASH
More concerned WHY SONY does not have any extended warranty for their flash units.
“Why should we care about Canon announcements? ” – Apparently mirrorless people feel very insecure and they need an information about everything what ever remotely might threaten their favorite bunnies.
this is a fanboy site, not a sony site 😉 canon is way more mature than sony in cameras and they have a better overall sistem
Yes their EOS-M mirrorless system is more mature than NEX? You sound like a fanboy 🙂
RIGHT! they have a very good “sistem” 😉
not every body here have english as their native language, in my language that’s also a common mistake because we say “sistema” 😉
Canon copying Sony and Olympus again, but years too late and half baked. I can’t believe these idiots are still on top. Though all the Canon fans are running around excited about this ‘new’ type of camera!
Turst me many are not, I am also a part of the Canon Rumors site, and most people are complaining that they are still using that 4 year old sensor and that Canon hasn’t been improving their autofocus. Everyone whines I guess.
The 100D will be a success – I’m sure…
Not for technical reasons – but it will be bought be those people whose richer relatives buy a Leica… So they can say “I’ve the same as those professional photographers I’ve seen on TV”!
For technical and ergonical reasons everything in a conventional formfactor (DSLR/SLT) as small as an A55 or A37 is a failure… Smaller cameras need a different form factor and a different mount to be ergonical!
erm, the A55 was a huge success for Sony.
Yes, and I can’t believe they abandoned that form factor of super small a33/55. Had they pursued it further, with improvements, they would have direct competition for this brilliant new little Canon concept.
My girlfriend prefers the form factor of the A57 to the A99. It fits her hands better.
Not just girlfriends. I find the A55 fits my hands quite well. And as a six-footer, I am not exactly tiny. Glove size 10. I might find the new Canon too small; and it looks to have too many buttons to suit my wife.
Yep, the A57 is a great camera. Hoping to read more real world reviews about A58 IQ and waiting for A78.
It’s Canon. Who cares?
You care enough to comment.
Thank you, Captain Obvious.
FAIL
Yeah it bothers him so much that he had to post a 3 para comment!
smart move, that will be able to compete with the tiny and really cool Sony A3x series
As someone who is rooting for Sony to succeed, this camera actually makes me happy. It is almost certainly their attempt to not have to abandon their amazing lens lineup–it’s what truly separates them from the pack and they will do whatever it takes to keep them relevant. Which highlights the point that Sony needs to release at least five more NEX lenses this year, and they need to be small and sharp.
This is for people who want a small dSLR, it isn’t a competitor for NEX, more the D3200.
Here’s a new motto for all future camera designs ( And the camera manufactures’ should pay me big buck for this one )…
“Smaller doesn’t mean Better”
Or… Are there that many spy photographers out there???? lol
Sony your competition is not sleeping.
This sounds like another good enough camera.
Good enough isn’t good enough.
Sony you must must must make your new ff camera better than good enough.
Size up your nex7n sensor to full frame 56mp or 54mp.
You could even make it 80+ mp square.
The quality will be as good as yor nex7 or even better if you can do it.
You have the technology and are already making the chip you need in a smaller size.
This needs to be the camera you make.
You can also put a super fast lower resolution chip in another version of the same camera for those who are not yet ready for 56 megapixels.
When they are ready they will buy a second camera.
You really really need to do this to compete.
Many of us are ready for a camera like this and many many more will be soon.
This is what you need to do!
Canon
If sony is not willing to make a high megapixel camera you should . Then I can buy yours instead.
Do you know how long Canon has been sticking with 20, 21, 22 MP sensors? it’s been too long and they’ve been using the SAME sensor. just different prices.
Everyone that wants 24mp has 24mp.
Its really difficult to sell us another one.
What I don’t have is 56mp. I’ll buy that for sure.
Not sure what Canon is thinking, but they will sell plenty of them. more than the NEX or m4/3. It may eat A57/58 sales also. Canon failed to release the 70D/7D2. Sony should take advantage of this by releasing a killer A78.
56 megapixels. Ooooh your an animal!
I don’t really see the point of this, in my opinion its rather competing with their own entery level dslr’s then with the nex or nikon 1 systems.
Canon and Sony compete on different levels. Sony now dominates the entry level market and slightly in the mid level. Sony has some advanced cameras but they are far behind Canon and Nikon in this segment and have absolutely NOTHING for the PRO user. I learned it the hard way. All my Sony gear is on eBay http://www.ebay.com/sch/igogosh1/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=&_trksid=p3686
Why would you sell all of them? It is a dream gear and if it were me, I would keep them for the next 5 years atleast, exquisite lenses, two powerful cameras and excellent flashes! i’d have them over any given Canon or Nikon kit!
I’m glad you’re jumping off the ship now, so I may be able to buy some cheaper Sony gears, I’m the guy who owns all the top notch Canon L craps, and I had to jump from Canon for their soft and ugly color images. THANKS for your “Smart” move. haha
The color and image quality is indeed better with Sony, the lenses are a joy. I may buy back into Sony when they produce 1DX or D4 level camera, need the ultimate AF and Flash system. I have played with Canon files and can recreate the look in post production in RAW. Set up and lighting remains the same so my results have only improved with a seamless photography system.
keep your 135mm and maybe another favorite lens for the day you come back to Sony.
I learnt it the hard way : sold my a850+cz lens –> Canon + L lens just to realize their L lens are inferior to CZ and the color, i mean COLOR is just in another league with Sony.
I sold all that at loss to come back to Sony wishing I have kept my CZ!!!
Hihi, I’m bidding on your gear (nice pictures BTW)! Sony world is really small… And we all meet here 🙂
I am a bidder on some of your items. I find it hard to believe with what you have, you can say they have nothing for pros. I have seen some outstanding work from pros with almost the same setup you have. What can nikon or canon do that you could not have done with what you have??
Let me guess, better flash system with Canon?
Yes. But to say it it’s better is an understatement. Canon flash system may be the best there is. 600EX-RT has radio triggers and controls built into the flash itself. No wireless flash delay and it has HSS too. I got 3 of these flashes and used them on 2 gigs already – it’s astonishingly good.
That does sound nice and I always wondered why these upper echelon cameras and flashes did not have built in radio controlled ability for their flash systems. It would save on taking the additional radio triggers with you if they were built in. I hope both Sony and Nikon follow Canon’s lead on this. I always thought Nikon had the better flash system but it seems’s Canon one upped them. As cool as that sounds I am not ready to bolt so I may look at your 85 mm ziess. I imagine you kept your equipment in good shape, is that so?
i’m sony through and through but i think canon has pulled a clever move here. i think it’ll be the start of a range of models that sell well.
time will tell….
p.s not saying i would buy it but i think it’ll do well
Yahooooo…..
Hope this will push Sony to comeback with a real A55 replacement!!!
🙂 🙂 🙂
The DSLR is smaller than before, but the kit zoom even bigger. 😉
If I didn’t like large lenses, I’d see more possibilities with these small bodies. But… same reason I’m not using a Nex anymore is I just can’t stand putting a large lens on a small body and losing Stabilization in the process.
Still can’t understand why any DSLR (or DSLT for the more pedantic reader) needs to be any bigger than an OM2 – there’s certainly no technical or ergonomic reasons – would probably cost the earth though
OM2 uses smaller sensor m4/3 and does not have any mirror, I believe. Flange distance is shorted for the lack of mirror which translates to smaller body. No mirror means no pentaprism or pentamirror, again smaller body. Smaller sensor means smaller lenses too.
You’re thinking of the OM-D, mate… The OM2 is a film SLR.
Obviously he was referring to OM2 135 film camera: http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/hardwares/classics/olympusom1n2/om2/htmls/spec.htm
note it has flange distance larger than, say, Canon EF.
probably because the sensor need a processor, unlike the film that rely on post-processing the get the picture out.. hehehe.. If anyone could make it that small, it will be Sony or Apple or Samsung.. they are good in miniaturization…
One thing to consider is that Sony’s sensors have been kicking butt of late. If Sony wants to press there advantage, they’d keep up the research and development on sensors – and hopefully – finally – get the marketshare they want. Also, they’re going to have to learn how to bring the message to the people.
I’m a sucker for underhyped but very good products – I shoot Sony, and drive Subaru.
+1 shoot sony; drive subaru
press their advantage – sorry!
Old or new?
Sony FF E-mount 35mm F1.8:
http://photorumors.com/2013/02/22/sonys-patents-for-a-35mm-f1-8-full-frame-e-mount-lens-fast-24mm-mirrorless-lens/
have you watched the youtube movie of it …was made only by that camera
watch the bit where the women approach to the camera and it still retains focus on her
if she moved any slower ( so as the so called perfect auto tracking focus would not lose her ) i would think i paused that movie
seriously this camera looks more like a half baked attempt at fighting the little slr’s already on a higher cheaper level
Wondering why Sony dropped the A37 body style. Now Canon has a smaller DSLR and Sony decided to quit offering the smaller A33/35/37/55 body style/size.
I believe that with very low volume of sales Sony has no money for the engineering effort of developing and manufacturing many SLT models. A58 seems like a desparate attempt to have something at the bottom of the range at a cost barely competitive with D3200. Sony will soon be down to two APS-C models – A58 and A78 and one FF A99.
I think an A38 with the same physical size (or smaller) to this SL1 combined with higher fps, panorama, etc will at least slow if not kill this ‘elephant’.
@narutogrey, the only quality Sony lens available is the Zeiss 85mm f/1.4 in A-mount. I can’t compare the Canon lens to vaporware.
I’ve never had a client complain about the EF 85mm f/1.8 Check-out the DXO score http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Lenses/Compare-Camera-Lenses/Compare-lenses/(lens1)/241/(brand)/Canon/(camera1)/436/(lens2)/329/(brand2)/Zeiss/(camera2)/483 The Canon has a score of 26 and the Zeiss 85mm a score of 25.
Real size comparisons from CameraSize.com
Canon SL1 vs Sony SLT-A57 http://camerasize.com/compare/#448,313
Canon SL1 vs Sony NEX-7 http://camerasize.com/compare/#448,33
Try to look at this size difference with a lens:
http://j.mp/13hwSc6 (for the Nex 7)
I think that people who want realy small will go to the Mirrorless cameras (and maybe the Nikon 1 series)
People who want a DSLR (for one reason or an other) may go for the smallest, but can go for a slightly larger and cheaper one too!
I personaly think the new Canon coould sell well when people realy want smaller DSLRs it can be a bad seller when people wants bigger DSLRs or small mirrorless cameras
I think in the end only pro’s will work with DSLRs (like only pros are working with midframe cameras at the moment) but it will take about 5-10 years for the mirrorless to catch up with the DSLRs in lens choice and AF speed etc.
@nevercat I have NO DOUBT that mirrorless will replace most DSLRs, but not this week.
Many Pros are already switching to mirrorless. In the future I see Pros using mirrorless and Medium Format Digital. The only people to stick with FF DSLRs will be Very Serrious Photo Enthusiast.
Photo Journalists are already winning awards with Smart Phones. I predict that within two years someone will shoot a cover for a major fashion magazine with a Smart Phone. Time marches on …
Other than thinking it will go the way of EOS-M (NEX clone) i dont know what can it do… The LENS is still gigantic… too big, good for backup machine for Canon fans
its an EPIC fail
For every Sony fan— who says Epic Fail there are 100 casual photographers who will buy the SL1 over a Sony camera ’cause Canon is a major player in entry level cameras and Sony ain’t. Simple as that!! Quality has nothing to do with percaption.
totally agree with u.
Thats the way to go.
56megapixals will set a new standard and only sony will have it.
I agree it’s really tough to sell people what they already have.
Let everyone else compete for the dwindling 24 megapixel market.
Skip right over the belly 36I megapixel market that the competition will be just beginning to hit.
Hit the new 56 megapixel market and hit it hard.
It wont be difficult to convince people to they have to have it.
Ther is nothing out there for people who want really high resolution in the field.
Wildlife and scenic photographers will love it.
Anyone that shoots big will love it.
Extreme low light pictures are a small part of what we photograph and everyone is competing for that market.
Most pictures are taken in good light and a high resolution camera is what is needed.
Most of us own more than one camera. Most of us would love to shoot one camera for low light and one for good light with extreme detail.
We spend a lot of money on really good lenses.
I would like a camera that shoots every bit of detail these lenses are capable of.
Give me a reason to buy more and better lenses.
And while your at it give me a reason to buy your new camera when I already have your old camera.
Two and a half years ago, Sony completely revolutionized photography with the SLT design. Since then they’ve launched NEX which threatens to span from the smallest APS-C camera to the only mirrorless, interchangeable lens FF camera by next year.
Genuine innovations. And I repeat, starting TWO AND A HALF YEARS AGO, now.
Canon, just took pretty much the same camera they always make, and made it a little smaller than the a58.
They should be embarrassed.
This camera WILL SELL….because it has the word “Canon” on it. And for absolutely NO OTHER REASON.
Canon is a SOLID 2.5 years behind Sony…..and that amount of time just grows until they mature and release a REAL non-SLR camera.
I’m not into these small cameras but I have no problems with Canon’s take on this in addition to their other models (700d was super lame though very weak update)
Sony didn’t revolutionise anything, people want mostly DSLR’s and not SLT’s and that is reflected in the dismal sales figures of SLT models. Their mistake was not giving potential buyers a price incentive to consider SLT (and the pros and cons of that design)
LOL what a fail. Canon sucks. Nikon and Sony (and Olympus, Panasonic) are so much better. What a joke of a company.
Good move making as small a camera as possible while staying within the ef lens system. Lens adapters aren’t a selling point.
Sony need to decide what they want to do and start making better cameras.
For those of us on limited budgets, already heavily invested in pro-level Canon equipment _and_ wanting something compact to kick around the streets with, the SL1 looks interesting. Sure, it’ll likely sell well to travelers and amateurs alike. It may even become a hot seller, and if it does, where will it leave Sony?
As already noted elsewhere in this thread, Sony’s challenge is lenses. Their kit optics, frankly, suck. Distortions and CA all over the place. To get NEX AF _and_ quality, the Zeiss offering(s) cost as much as L-glass and the focal length range is extremely limited. It won’t get the job done, unless Sony is interested in simply selling to tourists and those who love cameras as jewelry.
If Sony is to expand it’s present NEX market, it either needs to compete on cost or on differentiation. They had the cost advantage until the SL1 released. Differentiation? I’ve yet to see it and we’re going on, what, three years since the initial release? And… if Sony’s initial FF NEX is 3000+USD… good luck! It’d better be such a differentiator that people would be compelled to jump the Nikon/Canon ships.
The SL1 might just have solved a lot of my equipment and IQ challenges that I’ve experienced with the NEX. Anyone interested in a pair of NEX5/16mm/18-55mm/18-200SEL/batteries/chargers/etc?
The slt design wasn’t revolutionary. Sony merely combined existing technologies (evf is an old innovation and the fixed mirror is also old at least dating back to the eos-1n rs). I guess one reason was to overcome some of the limitations of the a-mount.