I am talking a lot with my trusted sources about the future Full Frame NEX camera. The camera could be named NEX-9 and the sensor is likely going to be a new Full Frame 24 MP sensor. And it will be mroe expensve than the current RX1! There are mainly two challenges Sony is facing during the development:
1) The technical challenge:
Sony aims to create a High End Professional system that can match and if possible surpass the performance of PRO DSLR.
2) Marketing – price challenge:
The NEX-9 body only will be more expensive than the RX1. Price range should be in between $3,000 and $4,000. And lenses will be also very expensive!
Sony managers think that the point 1) has been solved with the work done by the engineer’s. What Sony managers are discussing now if there is a large enough market for the NEX-9. They see that Canon (6D) and Nikon (D600) released FF DSLR cameras for less than $2,000 and a NEX-9 may will have a hard time to justify their price compared to those. I have been expressly asked by my sources to ask you SonyAlphaRumors readers to share your opinions. And while I am absolutely not an expert I will do the first step by sharing mine:
1) First of all, Sony should not compare Apple and Oranges. A DSLR system is inherently different than a Mirrorless system. So stop comparing it with DSLR.
2) Market isn’t rational. Most of you know Henry Ford’s famous sentence: “If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses“. So please don’t waste your time in analysis of the current market, because there isn’t a market to analyze yet 🙂
3) To take good pictures you just need a $100 compact camera. So if you ask me…”I don’t need the NEX-FF, nevertheless I want it and I will buy it“!I will buy it if it catch my emotions, if it’s kept simple and clean and if I can have a more “pure” photographic experience. Do we need a nice looking car? Nope, Do we need a nice looking Jacket no. But we are emotional animals not rational robots 🙂
4) In my eyes the A-mount FF system didn’t archive to become a serious challenger in the pro market. The E-mount Full Frame may be the first serious chance they have to get into the market. Make it backwards compatible with the current E-mount lenses (crop mode), make electronic adapters for Canon and Nikon lenses, create a system that is open and unique.
I could write for hours, but It’s time to read your opinion and probably you have better arguments than me!
But first of all a voting. Imagine Sony puts the right tech and the right features on the NEX-9. Imagine that there will be some nice lenses (including Zeiss) priced between $1,500 and $2,000…
[poll id=”141″]
533 Responses
Between 3k and 4k…., that’s a bit too vague.
3k = yes
4k = no
+1
Bigger body then my rx1 with no lens for 1000$ more??? It could be a real Leica competitor, more nothing IMHO!
NO, thanks!
I prefer to see a rx2 with 85mm class leading lens for 2800$.
This price is for Hasselblad.
Clueless.
Indeed …
Top notch costs top dollar …
Pointless !
There is no reason that the price couldn’t be as low as the RX1 or VG900 or lower except that the demand is so much higher. Many people only continue their commitment in the DSLR/SLT range because there isn’t a full-frame mirror-less alternative, and only a fraction of those people actually own a full-frame DSLR or SLT.
Big NO. Way too expensive. I think I can forget about Nex-9 with such pricing.
Same thoughts here!
$3-4k is overpriced. I would love to have FF Nex, but everything has it’s price. I already invested $4k in NEX7 and nice lenses.
At least if they can make back-compatible with the APS-C size lenses, so I can use lenses like Zeiss 24mm 1.8 on the FF, that would be great.
Otherwise, the NEX9 + 2-3 lenses will cost $10,000.
Way too much!
But everyone knows his pocket.
3-4k I hope that’s a joke. I would pay around 2-2.5k if it had all the the bells and whistles of a 5D or D600.
I would absolutely love one, particularly to use all my Legacy Lenses at their TRUE focal length and with the shallower depth of field compared to crop sensors. Great if it had dedicated exposure compensation and other dials, tiltable screen, focus peaking and inbuilt evf. IBIS would be great too.
However I simply cannot afford or justify one at that price… 🙁
$2k at a push.
i guess now rx1’s is much more make sense in a way…:(
The new FF NEX will surely make newer niche market in my opinion. Can’t make everybody happy. It’s not for everyone for sure.
It it is in that price range I think it needs their best sensor without any compromises for video like the a99 has. I would most likely buy it though.
How much did Leica pay to Sony to create a price range like this? 😉
Good one.
Just wait until Fujifilm join the group with a killer X-series FF.
‘A DSLR system is inherently different than a Mirrorless system.’
From a photo perspective, I disagree.
Not much changes for the better just because the lens mount have a shorter flange distance.
So, if you are not a gear head, what is the answer to the question:
– what does these top dollars give me?
/E
+1
This was exactly what went through my head.
NEX-5n. Metabones Speed Booster. I’m already shooting full-frame and loving it.
Then make a NEX-8 for just under $2K, which will be a NEX-7N with FF sensor.
Then NEX-9, for what I am concerned, can be a pro model with all the new innovations bringing it up to and beyond the $3K mark.
Release the NEX 9 as a halo, then release a NEX 8 6-9 months after.
NEX 9 is necessary to establish the concept and viability.
3-4K is rediculous. Why would it be sensible to pay more than the price of an A99? Faster AF? Probably not. Better IQ, possibely but overall its hard to see the featureset being that much better to justify that price bracket. In fact lets be serious, nothing justifies that price bracket if you can buy D800 for less than 3K.
You’re asking me to spend $4k on crappy user experience (the FF lenses WILL be big and the body will be small)? No, thanks!
FF Lenses are big? Have you ever seen Leica glass?
Isn’t Leica’s flange distance larger (27.8mm vs 18mm I believe)? Wouldn’t that impact the size of the lenses?
Leica uses sensor designed to work well with their lenses. 24Mp is just common DSLR sensor and will have problems with them. Look at sonnar 35/1.8 patent: it’s huge. Much larger than excellent lux 35/1.4 asph fle.
For me, I would probably wait until the NEX 9n comes out and buy the original NEX 9 for a cheaper price. In my case, I would have a hard time dropping 3-4k on a FF NEX considering that the Nikon D600 and Canon 6D will probably be constantly falling in price.
They always speak bad about the DSLR how big and expensive they are. But as I see most mirrorrless cameras therse days go the same way.
Look at the new GH3 – almost a DSLR size, the NEX series (NEX7 + 55-200 lens) – almost a DSLR size. and NX-9 will be bigger for sure.
How about price – nowadays Full frame DSLR are even less expensive than m4/3 or APS-C size mirorrless.
And still they are MORE responsive, with better battery life, bigger lens selection, etc.
I think the mirrorless are going in wrong direction – to mimic DSLR.
Price matters, and people will compare the price of FF DLSR vs FF mirrorless.
We’re no rational robots, but we’re not all Leica owners either 🙂
That said, I’d pay big buck for full-frame quality in a NEX-size format.
It it is in that price range I think it needs their best sensor without any compromises for video like the a99 has. I would most likely buy it though.
I can’t post anything on here anymore it all goes to moderation.
Even at 2k, I would not consider it, haha. But it’s not Sony’s fault. It’s sad to be poor, huhuhu.
Well, as NEX-7 is currently $998 (body only) and it started at $1099 I don’t see a reason for NEX-9 (body only) to be over $3k – $4k.
They should fit it just below the $2k tag – like $1899 or $1999 (which is the current price of the excellent D600 and 6D.
RX1 is $2799, but it INCLUDES the excellent 35mm Zeiss lens.
For luxury items you don’t care what the majority think: you are selling niche products to a minority (the book Antifragility by Nassim Taleb makes the same point very well: the top end luxury items are inflexible to price even in a recession).
So whatever the result of the survey, it doesn’t matter: Sony have already realised that the high end is an empty market, and the best time is now because CaNikon is years behind on this one (and don’t have Zeiss), Fuji isnt as high end, leaving only Leica in this space.
+1 on targetting the minority of customers who are price inelastic. However many in this group already have accumulated great glass for the same reason that they are both informed and can afford it. Ensuring compatibility with G and M mount as well as d/slr alongside native, would really increase Sony’s potential market-share.
I would like to go for A99 instead. If sony thinks that they can get a good share in market with costly cameras then they are mistaken. Not everyone is professional here(with lots of money) but everyone(with limited money) like to own good camera.
My 2 cents are if the Body has Leica quality and the lenses are small and perform well (again like Leica) 4 k would still be far cheaper than a Leica M. The M-E ist about 5k, but if they manage to build in a great performing AF, and most imporantly offer a good range of high end lenses I would consider to buy one.
Sorry for the bad English. This makes no sense! I’m saving up to buy the A99 and thought Nex – 9, when it will be cheaper and smaller. I do a little shooting, which need the benefits of DSLR .. I thought that it was for such a case SONY just take and remove the mirror and autofocus module, saving a couple hundred dollars. Why else need mirrorless camera ?
I do not care about marketing, design and the fact that Sony want to use the segment “Leica” … Previously, I estimated the alpha and the NEX as a cheap and reasonable camera for “mere mortals”. In a country in which I live, everyday people save up for years on what you can buy for 2 months
Folks,
don’t waste your time to buy overpriced equipment … the image counts -> e.g. http://lens.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/11/21/finding-the-right-tool-to-tell-a-war-story/
Sony, in the photography field you are not a premium brand.
Add features, add value get clever win market share.
Also don’t abandon your A mount users,
or they will abandon you.
Agreed!
That cam change. Years ago Nikon and Canon weren’t professional too, but they changed their product and became leading companies. Sony has a professional image department for digital film cameras, so why not bring their photography on a professional level?
The wise man built his house upon the the rock.
This.
Professional … Agreed! But we don not need a camera for 4k bucks! Mhhh? Nikon & Canon understand it, now. They produced FF Cameras for less than 1600 Euros. Sony should use their lead with the NEX wisely and should give the right answer to the market leaders.
with price like this!! sony will never become a leading manufacturer in photography.
these manufacturers are milking the consumer quit well.
I read a magazine couple of days ago. it had all the specs and cost of all the parts used in I phone 5. the total cost was $112 for the one with 64GB memory and $108 for the one with 32GB memory and labor for putting them together was roughly around $7 per phone. now look at them how much they sell it for. it is ridiculous especially when you sell over millions per months it should pay back research development quit quick even if they sell it for $200 per phone.
Sony will never becomes a leading photographic camera. product like this will appeal to a very selected people. wait until samsung take photography seriously and make sony run for its money.
+1. Andrea, please tell sony not to put all their eggs in 1 basket
I think Sony should put more work in the products they already have instead of inventing new categories.
There is much of room for improvements in the firmware (lots of usability issues) and the autofocus system.
I would love to see Sony putting more work in more firmware updates. It would show that there is a longtime support and would acknowledge the fact that every camera is a little computer know and can get better over time like with better software like Android and iOS smartphones do.
Also there is still room for more lenses I believe like a good macro…
I would buy if it’s not much more than 3k… (In fact I am saving up.) But it will really have to be challenging pro DSLRs in AF speed and not lose the high fps NEXs have enjoyed. At that kind of price weather sealing (and weather sealed lenses obviously) is a must too.
Plus my own plea to Sony – don’t leave out the touch screen! I find it sooooo useful for changing AF points, and it’s hardly going to bump the price significantly to include (BTW does anyone else think that there is a snobbery in photography against touch screens? As though putting one in makes the camera a toy or something?!)
ITS DIFFICULT TO TELL IF WE DON’T KNOW THE SPECIFICS OF THE CAMERA.
IF IT HAD THE SAME FEATURE OF THE A99 WITH JUST A NEWER SENSOR… THEN NO!
IF IT CAN
1) TAKE AMAZING PHOTOS
2) HIGH ISO
3) WIRELESS CONNECTIVITY
4) IMPROVED EVF
5) WEATHER SEALED
6) TETHERING WIRELESS/WIRED
7) LARGE FRAME BUFFER!!!!!!!!!!
8) A LETTER OF APOLOGY FROM SONY FOR ALL THEIR ARROGANT MISTAKES!!!
THEN YES I WILL PAY $4K FOR IT!
the camera doesnt take amazing photos, that’s the job of the photographer
Wow non of us here knew that.
Tell that to Sony, they invented the Auto Crop!
LOL
As a photographer looking into the FF line… I would like to purchase something that is future proof… Not something that just matching what the competition has already.
+1
I wouldn’t mind investing a large sum of money if I had the feeling the gaer I buy will last a long time.
Fair enough that it will be more expensive if it is a kind of RX1 plus additional E-Mount.
The thing is, I just bought a NEX-7, an RX100 and an A99 within the last 12 months. I don’t think that I will be buying yet another camera at all in the near future, no matter how groundbreaking it might be. If they had released the NEX-9 before the A99 I think I would have gone for it.
In my opinion, a ‘pro’ NEX9 is unnecessary. NEXes are small cameras with contrast AF and other serious limitations; they’d look rediculous with a pro lens like 70-200 and a flash unit.
As of ‘pro’ market, a <$2000 A88 and a square sensor A101 with new weather-sealed Zeiss lenses can make a difference, not a FF NEX.
Again, don’t you think that there would be people that wouldn’t use it with a 70-200 and a flash, and put a very compact 35mm 1.4 or other primes on it?
If you don’t need any longer than 35mm, RX1 is out there already 🙂
NEX 9 = A camera for people with more money than sense…. make.believe (I’m a rich douche)
I am now considering not buying into the system when the Nex7n comes out. I already have a system that costs me a lot of money, Canon.
No way.
2000 EUR is my maximum.
Otherwise I buy Nikon D600.
Let’s pretend NEX-9 is 2000 EUR. Why would you buy it over D600? I’m genuinely interested what draws people to this concept. Is it the smaller size? Something else?
Easy, it doesn’t spread oil over the sensor with it’s badly designed shutter mechanism.
The RX1 is $4000 USD (£2599) in the UK already.
It really comes down on how the camera is.
Also, you said “price range sould be…” without mentioning if body only or with a kit lens.
3K with a kit lens would be cheap, relatively speaking. Also we don’t know the specs of such a camera, if it’s a Leica M with better sensor and fast AF even 4K would be cheap.
Also, there is space for a NEX-8 in the future, as others have already mentioned.
I’d drop 3K for body only if it had a great sensor and a great EVF, I could finally part ways my too-big Full Frame Canon and have a body where I could use any lens I wish.
Around $2000 USD would be understandable. Beyond that is getting into too expensive land and likely the lenses will also live in that land as well.
Specs, quality, features, are changing rapidly these days. A high end will be that only for a short time. Rivals might bring better specs much cheaper, within a year.
If they measure against existing pro market their goal must be to surpass quality (physical and IQ wise) and usability (ergonomic and haptic).
24MP is to low, as long as they don’t plan a big Alpha Flagship.
The dial design of the 7 is fine. Of course we’d need an additional front dial.
A perfectly accessible Button layout and design is important.
And of course the menu needs to be better responsive than ever before, and it must be customizable in nearly any matter.
Menues need to have intelligence – i.e. HDR bracketing that for the HDR shoot automatically turns to Jpeg only. A special Bracketing menue would be appreciated, too. Then we need choosable Raw & XtraFine, etc. etc.
So far for the Camera itself.
A real differentiator would be support. Sony shall provide an exclusive premium support for NEX9 customers.
An advanced tethering ability would be fine.
Not that crab like “Remote camera 3.0”. The camera control combined with a real-time view of the captured photo. And mostly wanted – support of tablet PC. Sony shall design an app for the common tablets e.g. iPad.
Release accessories (at least the important ones) at the time of the camera release.
And have some prime glasses available at that time, too, of course.
If this complete package is delivered by Sony, than I’m convinced that the will win serious professionals besides enthusiasts with the money to buy.
For me personally the price would be justified, if Sony respects these things mentioned above.
Any news on where this leaves the A-mount, is this a dying part of Sony
Where do YOU think it leaves A-mount? It doesn’t sound good for a higher-end full frame A-mount, does it? 😉
it doesnt sound that bad for A-mount users, they can get a FF camera for about €2500, and have a full lens lineup of top quality that will take years for E-mount to get closer
Or you could just get a D600 and have a HUGE range of lenses and accessories right now. 😉
does my A-mount lenses fit the D600?
Your A-mount lenses will only fit an E-mount adapter soon.
how soon? as soon has A-mount would end back when it was sold to Sony? or as Soon has Sony would never release another A-mount FF camera back when they released A900?
well, at least Sony has the backup plan E-mount adaptor (full time PDAF) for their A-mount lenses when mirroless cameras surpass SLR’s in all ways (that will take less time then the end of A-mount)
I not optimistic (I’m never that when it comes to spending my money), I’m getting more and more convinced that a-mount is dying. Having $15K worth of alpha lenses and no interest in A99 is a bad position to be in.
Yup, not being interested in the A99 is a bad sign!
If Sony released the D800E packaged as the A99… A lot of photographers would have been interested.
Hell, I would have bought it!
Sony, stop pissing about with high-priced gear until you get the basics right. You are not an aspirational brand and never will be, you are an electronics box shifter bleeding money from every orifice.
The A99 is the A77 with FF sensor, drop the price of it lower than the D600 and watch your loyal user-base buy it in a heart-beat. It isn’t rocket science.
It should be possible for sony to produce and sell this camera for around $2500. That is below the RX1, but higher than you should expect based on the RX1. The main issue here is, I think, that Sony is POSITIONING the NEX-9 above the A99 and RX1, since nobody except Leica produces FF mirror less cameras. Add to that the art of miniaturization and the NEX-9 will cost easily $3500, not because it is better than other Sony FF cameras, but different. I can’t blame Sony here, but I will blame Leica, since the current company is not necessarily acting in line with the spirit and raison d’etre of LEICA.
However, my largest concern is the ability of Sony to manufacture accompanying lenses for the NEX-9. I have faith in Zeiss that they can create world-class glass to go with it, but little in Sony in their decisions which lenses to make. After all, the fuzz is about the combination of body and glass resulting in a photographic experience we didn’t have before.
Mirrorless cameras should sell cheaper than DSLRs,
because electronic (EVF) is cheaper than mechanic (Mirror, OVF-Prism…)
lol
When I see the price of the A99 (still £200 more than a D800), the RX1, the 50mm 1.4 I can only conclude that somebody in Sony is having a laugh. They can’t actually want to sell many of these, can they?
Doesn’t make sense to be any cheaper than the compact camera version.
I would wait until the second-hand market reaches price range b/w 2k-3k :D. ANW I am waiting for a fast ZM lens (35 1.4) to pair with my nex.
when is that going to happen, in 2017? The NEX FF is rumored to be out in the second half of 2015.
There should be more spec. (what is included) for the prices.
If the price is $3000 and EVF is in-camera, I maybe gone buy.
If the price is $4000 and no in-camera EVF, I don’t buy for sure.
But the best would be a price around $2000-$2500 and EVF in-camera.
Also Sony should make some ok quality Sony primes, not to expensive (around $500)
e.g 24mm F2.8, 35mm F2.0, 85mm F2.8. Then also some Zeiss primes for
the system one day. Maybe a Sony/Zeiss 35mm prime from day 1.
Always the discussion about money here. Pointless! It shows, that Sony did not really understands the needs of photographers, if they produce more expensive cameras. We want to make good images with useful and affordable equipment. We do not need equipment for boasters, like Leica.
This is my take. I love photography and spend quite a lot on cameras and lenses compared to the regular guy. I bought a NEX 7 as soon as it came out and paid swedish prices for it. About 1800 USD. The next time i buy a camera I am going to consider a full frame NEX but I would not be willing to spend above 2800USD on it. I would problably buy it if I went to the US since a 2800USD camera in sweden would be prices more like 3600 USD. The main issue for me is that I use Canon FD glass on my NEX 7 and if Metabones makes a good Canon FD – NEX Speed Booster adapter i will be buying that adapter for 400 USD and try to extend the life of my NEX 7 instead.
I work in IT and have a decent salery. I could probably not afford a full frame NEX camera at all I I bought it in Sweden.
I hope Sony makes this, but they should know that anything above 3000 USD they are going to price a lot of enthusiasts out of the game, at least for people not in the U.S.
Also, If lenses are going to be 1500 USD and the Camera something closer to 4000 USD i might just as well buy a Leica M and go with a Voightlander lens for it.
Björn, I’m afraid it will cost you $5300-5500 in Sweden 🙂
Consider the fact 24Mp Sony sensor doesn’t work well with RF lenses, particularly wides, buying Leica M Type 240 would be the better solution indeed. For only +600$ you will get:
1) Excellent service, unlike this Sony’s joke
2) Rangefinder
In conclusion I find these Sony’s attempts being anything from funny to ridiculous but reasonable. I’m afraid Sony will be bankrupt before the release date with such a strange self positioning.
I would love getting such a substitute for my A850, but I cannot afford it at such price tag. Ergo, it is not my camera just like a Leica cannot be my camera at 6000 €, body only.
On the other hand, does it really make much sense for pros… I am not so sure either. Will it have all what a pro needs? Excellent service included?
But then, as you say Andrea, market is not so rational and some of these crazy-products have and incredible success and become a very coveted object.
So … not only because of that but you cannot keep on being a follower; Sony should go for it, just like they did with the RX100 and the RX1. I am sure that in not a very long time prices will go down, just as usual.
I would wave that $3-4k in Sony executives’ face then go and buy even more Metabones Speed Boosters, even at $2k is stretching it, I have no idea why they would price it at that level, lets hope it’s like those silly Sigma Foveon cameras which will never succeed at that price.
I’m loving the NEX-7 with Speed Booster and my f1.2 primes.
PS I’m a banker and I have money, I just don’t support highway robbery.
sorry can´t resist : if you are a banker then you are a highway robber .. 😉
How can a mirror-less E-mount cost more than all the technical wizardry required for the A99 then?
Miniaturization.
bye bye NEX-9
May be in 2017 I would buy a second-hand one.
So, €3-4k in Europe? No, Sony, thank you 😉
I have no intention to buy around leica price for DSLR-sensor driven camera, I would rather buy M Type 240 for such money: at least, I won’t have problems with RF wides.
Mad asian monkeys. They seriously think they are premium maker 🙂
$3000-4000 for the 1st trial of Nex FF is not acceptable.. I can pretty sure this product is fairly raw and far from mature not until NEX9N and 9R come out.. Who will pay such money to buy a immature product..
don’t forget, each of NEX FF lens is a money burner too.. So, even the body is sold at $2500, Initial investment on Nex FF system is at least $4500+……. //crying
To me, wont consider if the body is selling above $2500..
I certainly don’t fit in the pack where money is no object and I’ll buy any bleeding edge gear because it’s awesome!
I switched from Canon to Sony because I felt that Canon wasn’t innovating and when you look at the price/performance ratio. Sony destroyed Canon with its Nex 5n and 7. Looking at the DxO numbers, the Nex-7 gives me the similar dynamic range and quality as the Canon 5D3. The Nex-7 isn’t a FF but for that price differential, I’m happy to invest in Sony.
This Sony Nex-9 isn’t appealing on a few levels:
1. $3k-$4k is too expensive for me. I chose to leave Canon because the 5D series was the only FF camera and of equivalent quality to a Nex-7. I’m still not going to shell out that much for a camera body.
2. It sounds like I’ll need to invest in new lenses again. Another expense that needs to be taken into account.
3. It’s taken a few years for the Nex system to get a decent variety of lenses. I don’t want to start over with a FF lens system and wait for years for more lenses to appear. I’ll just stick with APS sensor size Nex system
The price for a RX1 is over the top compared to Fuji X100(s). While NEXes are not significantly more expensive than the SLTs, I think there is no way to charge more for a NEX-9 than for a A99! Don’t look for so called PRO or High End Professional audience.
Dear Sony, why you make a FF Nex that beyond Pro DSLR
why is so complicated?
just put the VG-900 sensor into nex 7 body with 6D or D600 Price
and name it Nex 8 and we will buy it.
I think it so simple
make it Nex 8 not nex 9
after that, put all your new sensor and 4K price in nex 9
let the rich or pro people buy the Nex 9
The VG900 has been tried and the sensor doesn’t work properly with existing fullframe lenses. It’s a major reason that people who would otherwise be attracted to the camera (it’s fullframe) rejected it. This makes it a poor choice for fullframe NEX.
ow i see
thanks for the info John
I feel like this asking about price, is putting the cart before the horse.
The potential market for this camera is especially sensitive to the availability of high-quality glass. The proposition of purchasing the camera and then enduring a wait of two or three years for a wide selection of interesting and compatible lenses to become available is not a good one!
The communitites at rangefinder forums, video forums and manual and alt lens forums as well as dpreview have frequently adopted the NEX line in priority to other models, because they quickly realized how well these cameras work with existing rangefinder and SLR lenses.
Price is irrelevant until we know whether the camera will perform with existing high-quality lenses from Leica, Zeiss, Voigtlander and Contax. If it won’t work with a Contax G lens or I can’t mount a 50mm/1.4 ASPH then it’s worth no more than an APS-C mirrorless for many potential early adopters.
Sony should offer a reasonable price at the start, get more people to buy it and build up a strong market shares. Provide cheap lens too so people buy more lens so it would become difficult for them to switch system when others eventually offer Fullframe Mirrorless camera systems (ie Canon).
I am not saying the camera needs to be cheap, but anything above $3500 would price a lot of people out. Some might even goto Samsung’s rumored fullframe if it is cheap enough……..
If it have superb video, new XAVC implementation, then yes 3k to 4k is acceptable
As much as I love Sony I will never ever buy into a camera system with lenses and everything when I can get the exact same results with equipment that is less than half the price. Being a compact system does not justify it for me.
I mean the NEX-9 might be $4,000 but that is just the start. It needs lenses that will cost (I am guessing) at least $1,000 a piece. So for about $5,000 I can have a NEX-9 with a 50mm lens for example, but that same setup will only cost me $2,500 for a Nikon D600.
If you are serious about photography the size of the camera is hardly the deciding factor. The capabilities and performance are. The NEX-9 is a strange beast in that on the one hand it wants to cater to professional market and on the other hand will be part of the “amateur that wants a bit more than P&S” family. It can’t be both.
The NEX-9 will be a nice “proof of concept” camera like the RX1 is, but I do not see it making any real impact on the current situation in the FF market, just like the other attempts at becoming a large player between the Nikon and Canon giants have failed to this day.
Again: I absolutely love Sony for what it does, but a NEX-9, at least for this price, will never ever be a huge hit.
Agree
please sony, for marketing sake LOL
dont make nex 9
just make nex 8
with price of 6D, (similar quality)
let the world know how great your camera sensor.
safe play. build some market share, make consumer believe.
safe the “9”, it is the perfect name for perfect product.
dont waste it like you did in A99
Personally I’ve realized I don’t care about the “future of Alpha” or “future of Nex” AS LONG as they make a good alpha-nex adapter with OSS so that my 70-400 and 70-200 have image stabilzing on Nex (if alpha disappears). Why…? I WANT THE BEST IMAGE QUALITY AND NOT SEE MY INVESTMENTS WASTED! (if I lose my image stabilzing at 400mm then I wish … to burn in hell).
I put off buying the 70-400 and waited for the II version. Now I have put that off until I see what happens to A-mount in a year.
Found a used one at half the price of what mk2 will cost (would never afford mk2)… And its made me absolutely live my a77 with its evf… Cant go back to an ovf now!
Big yes, if it cranks out 12 cheeseburgers per second.
I knew Sony would price this out of the reach of us mere mortals.
But tell me what tech is in this Nex-9 that justifies a price TRIPLE that of the NEX-7?
Built in Anti Gravity Machine for I.B.I.S.?
From one point of view, if it had a built-in VF, plus an interchangeable lens then it sounds good value in comparison to an RX1, but an RX1 won’t always be that price, plus: there is already the Camcorder version that does full-frame which is about the same price as the RX1, so a higher price would seem a bit odd.
Sony need to think about whether they are trying to exploit the market (ie sell what they can for as high a price as possible) or grow it (by selling at affordable prices and making a reasonable cut on each sale): I would prefer the last, but understand that they have economics to think of…
It was really interesting to see another trend in sensor development here, A full-frame sensor with only HD-Video resolution. If we translate this to still photography the NEX I would love to see would be:
» NEX 5 form factor (maybe with NEX 7-like dials)
» 16MP full frame sensor with high sensitivity
» pricing around $1500 body only would seem fair
I currently have close to $30K usd (maybe more…) “invested” in all my photography equipment, between camera bodies (NEX7 and A850 digital, plus MF & LF film), lenses, scanners and printers, tripods & etc, lighting gear and all accessories. So I am no stranger to paying money for good equipment.
The results I’ve seen from the RX1 are excellent, and I have had one in my hands. But it is already too expensive for me to justify its purchase. A $3-4K usd NEX FF body would also be too high, considering what else I have and is now available from other makers.
I think Sony would be making a serious mistake bringing a camera at that price to the market. It needs to be no more than $3K usd and really ought to be no more than $2.5K usd for the body. Somewhere between $2K usd and $2.5K would be much better, and the closer it is to $2K the more of a “hit” they’ll have. FF = FF— forget about the mirrorless mystique— and these are the price points you have to get to these days. The lenses are an additional problem, but at least they have a longer life span than bodies in the digital age. Plus, you’ll have some 3rd parties joining in with some better priced items.
Personally I think the ff dslr comparison is valid – sony needs to carve out a niche for this product and the only target markets I can see are: (i) people who own a ff dslr/t; (ii) people who are considering upgrading to a ff dslr/t; and (iii) people who own a rangefinder. It’s a new concept, but I can’t see it appealing to anyone outside these groups in large numbers.
For travel and street photography, it’d be perfect for me (provided the core primes are available with oss at launch if there’s no ibis). However, I also shoot a lot of macro so that would also need to be covered (and not with a token 50mm macro). If it ticked all those boxes, I’d pay no more than £2000 for the body (that’s $2000 in sony land).
The real problem is Sony’s history of delivering a smattering of oem lenses and relying on third parties to fill the gaps. It doesn’t matter how innovative the body is if it’s not backed up with a good selection of lenses, and relying on adapters screams ‘couldn’t be bothered to design lenses’.
I see a use for the ff-nex because I could mix and match any regular SLR lens to it allowing me to pick the best 50mm, the best 85mm and so on without having to stick with one camera system…. In a perfect world Sony would just offer a dslr size camera that had a mount 30mm from the sensor and then offered various adapters to it for different camera mounts. The truth is if they offer a ff-nex I would buy it, but would not buy any of the Sony lenses for it I would be using various adapters and other lenses from other brands on it.
Forget adapters for alpha lenses unless the adapter has image stabilizing.
why my previous comment has not been published T-T
Long story short : A big NO for me too!
I got the nex5 and have so much issues with it (overheat, shutter/autofocus freeze, dead mothercard, dead button) … Furthermore NEX products seems to be 2 years lasting products only, so not enough for me to be viewed for professional use.
I would love to buy a high end NEX product like 9FF or 7N but i’m too much worried about investing a lot of $$$ for cheap and fast deprecated products… I’m more confident in DSLR products. Actually i’m looking the market patiently to see if i’m right or wrong…
Aurelien
My Nex-5 has lasted me over 2 years and is still going strong.
If the camera is of similar quality or better than the new Leica M, I would consider buying it. The other consideration would be if it is supported by a range of top quality optics. Leica is a proven product, their lenses are superb, can Sony match this?
There is certainly a market for Leica M and their lenses. If Sony put forward a viable alternative, people would definitely consider it.
As for quality I’d say:
+ Autofocus
+ better High ISO
– worse Low ISO, especially with UWA lenses
– worse build quality
Don’t get me wrong – if it is as good a Sony think it could be I would absolutely love to own one – BUT – and its a big BUT – there is no way as a family man that I could ever justify paying the price of a second hand car on my hobby. It just will not happen.
Yes, thats the point.
I’m pretty sure with that estimated price Sony is missing their market, Prosumers like myself willing to pay that extra dollar but not ANY Dollar. Just to get that last 10% picture Quality out of your everyday shots.
The few people able to spend that kind of money will not make it a huge success.
Because I’m pretty sure that the Pros won’t even consider NEX as a Pro-Tool Camera even if it has a FF-Sensor. It’s like having driving a Mini with a blown up mother or really owning a Porsche. Even if performance/picture quality is equal there is still that craving owning a status symbol. And this factor won’t work for a NEX not even with FF.
Well for myself, I was considering waiting and buying, but certainly not at this given Price Range, this is insane! On the other hand, once Sony puts out the NEX-9 it won’t be long until prices drop when other manufacturers follow close at hand.
So maybe it will be another two/three years from now until I will switch from APS-C to FF. Pretty sure this will be the future though, but only at a reasonable price range, not when I Have to trade in my car for a camera!;-)
“motor” not “mother” of course hahaha…! The crazy price estimate has gotten me all shook up!;-)
EOS-1D X Digital SLR Camera (Body Only) $6800. The price isn’t a problem if the product is worth it. But if they worry about competition from Canon 6D and Nikon D600, it’s quite likely the product isn’t worth it. They need to ask why you would prefer a Nex 9 over a Canon 5D Mk3 or Nikon D800E (answer might be size) or a Leica M (answer might be price). 6D and D600 are for people who want the large sensor but can’t afford/justify 5D/D800, and is not competition for a $3000-$3999 camera.
@tore
+1000000
+1
+1 Indeed! Hopefully Sony reps going through the majority of the nonsense to get to this post. The majority votes here are from people that wanted a cheap FF camera with tons of features and they, themselves, probably don’t own any FF camera.
Simply put, if you price it at $3000-$4000 bracket, look at the D800E and 5D Mark 3. Include all the good features from those two cameras and add a Sony touch to it. Obviously these good features are the selling point of those two cameras. If Sony can’t match the AF speed of the Mark 3 or (certainly) the resolution of the D800E, give us something else useful that both of those cameras don’t have (like touch shutter and focus or seamless wireless tethering). Being a NEX camera, the flexibility of the mount is already a huge plus. Sony should not worry about the price, but instead they should pay more attention to what they should include in this camera.
If they can publish the list of features that they have in mind, I think it would be more helpful to get constructive feedback. As right now, it’s too all over the place.
Better AF and higher MP are the biggest reasons that people choose the D800/5D3 over the D600/6D. The NEX-9 might be able to match the D800’s MP count, but unless Sony has a brand new trick up its sleeve the AF isn’t going to be as good as even the $1k D7000 and 60D. And I can’t imagine that the things you mentioned will make up for that in most people’s eyes. The NEX-9 is going to have to be truly groundbreaking in all sorts of ways if it’s going to be worth $3500. It’ll have to be literally a smaller-but-identical version of the D800.
By no mean that’s an exhaustive list. I’m just saying that if Sony can’t match either of those then it should include other enticing features.
The Full Frame α NEX is Sony’s option to replace A-Mount one day and therefore I’d expected this camera to get priced very expensive. I’m not joining this way. So obviously something like the Speed Booster attached to the NEX-5-Series will become my way to Full Frame Look…
No! Mirrorless cameras, FF or not, will NEVER replace cameras with mirrors (moving or non-moving) for fast moving objects.
To get fast AF, and at low light, the camera will need LARGE AF sensors. PDAF sensors on Chip has to be very small, otherwise they will cause huge image artefacts (impossible to correct afterwards).
The small PDAF on Chip sensors can not be very much more sensitive then they already are now, they are not that far away from maximum theoretical quantum efficiency.
The widespread myth that mirrorless cameras will replace cameras with mirrors in the future is not true. This myth is based on insufficient knowledge about the laws of physics and image sensor technology.
Sony has REPEATADLY said that they will not abandon the A-mount line. Unless we users will stop buying it, of course. Because too many of us THINK that Sony will abandon the A-line!
.
Mirrorless will replace the mirror, it’s inevitable, technology marches on. You have no idea what technology is five years away.
In the meantime, an adapter will mount A-mount lenses on NEX for faster AF. It’s the way Sony are going.
When have Sony said that they will never abandon A-mount? News to me!
+1 GunnarK
It’s all not-so-bad as long as you’re in good light and have clear field of view. But when you go to shoot something in worse light or need to track objects between other than mirrorless fail on all fronts and you probably end up better with manual focusing.
GunnarK, you’re having a slight problem with reading, since neither I wrote Sony WILL give up A-Mount nor I want them to, I simply wrote the Full Frame α NEX is Sony’s OPTION to replace A-Mount one day. But with your Vicky-Pollard-Nu-but-Yeah! you finished your posting yourself with the main condition, that the day Sony’s not selling enough A-Mount stuff anymore, they will reduce you to that OPTION to continue with your A-Mount gear attached to a Full Frame α NEX.
Personally I simply want Sony α NEX as an affordable System for Full Frame Video (Super35/APS-C) PLUS Photography – Full Frame if possible. That would be the Full Frame α NEX-9 or probably simply a Speed Booster for my old Canon FDs. Competition with other companies will improve the cameras’ specs in the future anyway…
I absolutely agree with Ian, no way at that price – where’s the added value? Sounds a nice idea though !
Best wishes
Q
If I can get a NEX 7n body plus a Metabones Speed Booster adapter and an A99 with a good Zeiss lens for the price of a full frame NEX and a lens then the NEX 9 will have to be an almost magical camera.
Such flawed logic. No matter how good your speed booster is, it can never be as good as a native full frame. If you can put up with the compromises, don’t complain about the price. Paying more to get a much better performance is always true in everything.
So 3-4k AND lens will be really expensive ?
And when the system fails you will be left hanging with glass that is worthless
And still have focus that cant take action ?
Sorry I can see a few rich non pros with them thats about it
I would think most pros will pass to much money to invest in a setup that most likely will be very limited
Sony used to think they could compete in the high end audio ? While they made some decent stuff it was not as good as other gear
I see the same mistake happening again this time with photography ?
A FF camera is a FF camera is a FF camera. People will compare it to other FF cameras on the market when they make purchase decisions. Given SONY’s current financial difficulty, they need some product which can be blockbusters, namely, better products than competitors but with attractive price, not better products with a lot higher prices. for NEX9 to be in 3k-4k range, it has to beat NIKON D4 in many ways..
+1 simple yet right to the point
1) The technical challenge : I don’t think it’s “comparing apples and oranges”. A lot of people uses their DSL for landscapes or other quiet situations just because of the lack of an affordable offer in FF mirrorless. They don’t care about a blazing autofocus, mirror and co. A lot of people carry a FF DSL when they just need a good sensor and a good lense. These photographers are going to make the technical comparison…
2) Just too expensive. There is no way for me to pay a 3-4k FF just for the compacity for now.
For landscapes, the image quality would have to beat the Sigma DP2M and the Nikon D800E.
Can it do that with a 24 Mpix Bayer sensor? I doubt it.
For landscapes, the image quality would have to beat the Sigma DP2M and the Nikon D800E.
Can it do that with a 24 Mpix Bayer sensor? I doubt it.
I am an amateur and still learning Photography on my SLT A57 but I have been following SAR and other sites for knowledge and updates. For what I have learned is that people are waiting for the FF NEX. I saw the Camera Diner show which featured Joe Asai and queries given by Sony lovers.
If Sony really listens to its comsumers, then I would like to request them to launch 3 different versions of the FF NEX – 1) 30MP/32MP/36MP to compete with the Hassalblads and the Leicas; 2) 24MP (as stated above) to compete with high end Canons and Nikons and 3) 16MP/18MP/20MP to compete with Olympus/Fuji/Nikon/Conon/Panasonic etc
This will give them the edge in every FF Spectrum and Sony Lovers the option of affordable price range anywhere between $1,500 and $5,000.
Of course, lenses will still be expensive..:-(
It’s your opinion not what others want. It’s easier said than done by diverging resources to three different cameras. And Sony doesn’t need to compete with the lower segment with the like of Olympus/Panasonic and such in FF.
So wait, people are up in arms about the A99 being overpriced and now Sony plans to release a compact NEX camera and add another thousand dollars to the price? Gee, I can’t imagine how that could be anything but a smashing success!
A high price can even help sales, as it implies high quality. Roll-Royce just released a new model at a very high price.
However, I feel much of this high price on the NEX-9 is due to low yields on the FF sensors, and these sensors are likely to get cheaper as production becomes more reliable.
That’s the point. Rolls Royce does so. Leica can do. But Sony is a consumer brand. The RX1 was a test run. And because of it’s limitation on one hand and it’s best-in-class tech on the other hand, it is attractive to those who can afford it. But a NEX9 is soulless (highend) mass product, not matter at which price point they come in.
A NEX-9 have to be priced at ~2k, half the price. If it’s not feasible than leave it. Everyone who works professionally in photography and needs highend is going for a DSLR (How many pros use Sony anyway?). Everyone else who’s going for prestige and emotions is going to by a Leica, maybe the RX1 or any other expensive stuff. And then we have those 10 fanboys like Andrea, but this doesn’t eat up.
The market is super small. But Sony is a huge conglomerate with masses for marketing, selling, research, directors, managers, heads of department … They just can’t bring out a exclusive niche product like a luxury brand.
I agree …. at the moment.
As Andrea has raised the subject of the motor industry, I can remember a time when Skoda was a joke. Now it is known as the reliable value for money brand in the Volkswagen stable. So it IS possible to change the market’s perception of a brand. It just takes lots of time. Decades rather than years, from what I have observed.
Now whether this consumer would have been prepared to pay $100 for a tin-lizzie, I don’t know. I wouldn’t pay $3000-$4000 for a faster horse, especially if it means that my current stable of A-mount lenses are going to hobble the horse because they lack in-lens stabilisation.
So I am sorry, but I will stop investing in Sony technology if they go ahead with this lunacy.
Skoda raised from a Czech joke to a value brand. Renault wanted to come up with a brand new high-class limousine. Like Audi oder BMW. It was a really excellent car and for it’s 45k € it was really cheap. But noone bought it because if you charge 45k € you don’t want to drive a Renault, however the build quality may be.
When I think about the NEX-9 as a flagship, I think of it as a professional camera for professional photographers to earn money with it. It won’t compete with Nikon and Canon as a journalists/sports/wildlife/war camera, I think it is more in competition for studio/fashion/food/product/architecture and compete with medium format (Sinar, Hasselblad, PhaseOne…). Why? Because the short flange distance give you the possibilities to use nearly every lens-design, especially wide angle and tilt-shift. And with Sony background in professional cinema and tv productions, they can provide a work flow concept, like connection with vario-laptops to control the camera, showing the live view on bravia screens etc.
Sadly, this camera wont be for me or most users of this website, because I, and I bet you too, am not a professional photographer.
These were my thoughts as well. I don’t think Sony wants every average joe to have NEX-9. They are trying to position it as a pro system as Andrea said (maybe because the R&D cost went too hight for it to be a consumer grade camera).
But I’m struggling to understand which pro is the target user! I don’t see a sport or wedding photographer using it (at least not as the primary camera). Does it make sense to use NEX-9 in a studio? Is it for street/documentary photographer? Who is it for? And why isn’t Sony asking those people?
Sports, wedding and studio photographers are not the only Pros that exist. Photojournalists (like John Vink who bought an RX1) that buy Leica M9’s or M’s (like Tom Stoddart and Jean Gumy) will be the sort of professionals that would be attracted to the Sony FF 9.
The price? Well, thats not too far down from a second hand M9. OK, it does have AF and video but will it deter people from buying a second hand M9 for it? I am not sure at that price. If it more like $3000 (£2800) then I see it as a real motivator.
Lenses? well, the $1500 range is the professional range so its OK. Again, I don’t think Sony is looking for the average man to own these. Think about it, we are talking about professionals here and professionals already pay these prices for their lenses and bodies.
I would cap the prices at $1500 (£1300) for any lens and its ok to be like the Contax line if they deliver alike (f2 maximum aperture but sharp as hell corner to corner)
My two cents.
Admin, I do believe maybe the opinions here should not be an indicative factor of anything. Rather, one should ask in the following way:
“Is photography your main income earner? If so, then would you consider a FF 9 at the following prices offering: X Y Z 1 2 3 features?”
“If photography is not your main income earner or if it is a hobby, would you consider a FF 9 at X price?”
You need to divide who you are asking that question for the answers themselves to be more telling. People who buy D4’s and 1DX’s are not necessarily hobbyist
The few people you’ve listed aren’t going to make any money for Sony.
The few people I listed are the people that inspire others to buy Leica. The Russian and Chinese new rich will buy it. The people that want a FF camera to use their Leica/Zeiss/Voigtlander lenses but dont want to buy a Leica will.
The people I list (and their colleagues) are the people that make the sort of imagery that loads of enthusiasts want to achieve when they speak of ‘documentary’, ‘street’ and ‘portraiture’ photography.
Well said, if Sony makes a pro NEX 9 I’m in.
after seeing this rumor, just want samsung and canon release their mirrorless FF earlier than sony~~~~~~HAHAHHA~~~~~~~
They are thinking to make full frame and forget that we still did not get nice fast zoom f2.8 yet !!! I tried la-ea2 and autofocus is fast ( too fast ) and the worst thing is jump ,trying to get focus ,awful in video mode . Adapter for fs100 is useless I sold it .
grow Up SONY … time to stop dreaming … You’ve earned no money over 6 years.
If none of the existing e-mount lenses fits the possible Nex9 for FF coverage, than $1000 price difference does not matter that much – it would be the same frustrating voyage as it was with Sony APS-C e-mount lenses we’ve had since the beginning. Also what would cost a simple lens such as 35/1.8 for FF, when the current one is almost $500 ?
The other “marketing problem” is that basically no one NEEDS FF mirrorless for photography – it would be NICE to have for many reasons (and the Metabones adapter makes it much easier), but when you’re pro, you do with what you get for a reasonable price and DSLR is almost always better choice. We want a small and CHEAPER solution for other than work related stuff like vacation, so it’s a no go again. I do like Sony for trying and pushing the envelope, and of course there will be strictly emotional buyers like with Leica, but I would not hope to “create professional market” with such price for mirrorless, when pros are the people that tend to buy rationally and for $4000+emount lenses you can do much better for the business with other solutions.
Agreed! …
agree too
+1
> Metabones adapter makes it much easier
Metabones adaptor is a fantastic product, but it only works for bulky SLR lenses. The consequence is that it affects both optical quality and the compact ergonomics.
Agreed.
IMHO if Sony wants to create “High End Professional system that can match and if possible surpass the performance of PRO DSLR” than they better focus on releasing Nikon D4 competitor an lots of pro-grade A-mount lenses along with creating advanced system of flashes that’s radio-controlled.
Not to mention about developing SDK similar to one that Canon has for it’s DSLRs (Nikon doesn’t have any good one, so here’s a great opportunity for you, Sony!)
And A850 successor (cheap FF A-mount body, followed by mid-range (eg. f/4) lenses) to build up ranks of FF users.
In the end the “need” for FF mirrorless might be lower than Sony thinks. Mirrorless work best as secondary cameras for DSLRs, I doubt there will be masses of people ready to buy expensive mirrorless body with FF sensor for the price they could get a high end pro-grade lens for their main camera. Than there are professional photographers who need mirrorless body due to small size, but they go either for Leica or Fujifilm, companies that hit their “sweet spot” with something else than loads of high-end technology. And I doubt Sony can do anything to change that other than hoping Fujifilm won’t develop full frame mirrorless in next half a year after NEX-9 release, cause this would kill 90% of sales NEX could possibly get.
Agree!
Nothing gets automatically better by shortening the flange distance.
Yes, size of the body is reduced, but the FF lenses will not shrink.
But some downsides (to DSLR) are obvious:
– AF speed.
– Lack of lenses.
– OVF, for those who want it.
– Vertical grip ???
– Body size, ergonomics.
Not everyone wants to pay a premium for those issues.
There is no reason to do it just to show everyone that they can.
/E
Of course they will. Retrofocals versus symetricals and image-space telecentrics. How do you think all those small 35mm film rangefinder and pocket cameras from yesteryear were made?
Fair enough,
but the list of those lenses are rather short right now from Sony. 😉
Also, without knowing all that much about lens design,
does all these designs still allow for OIS?
Come to think of it, N* lenses matches the 36 MP sensor, so the current sensors is not a big challenge with a DSLR.
But you may still be right, it may be cheaper to produce high quality lenses for a mirrorless camera. If so, that should show of in lens prices.
But I don’t see many people buying a $4K body to gain the benefit of buying cheaper lenses. (Assuming that Sony would let the simpler design affect the price.)
My overwhelming feeling is still that not many will want to invest that kind of money in a system that brings so little extra to the table.
Neither in the upgrading group, nor in the ‘switchers’.
But I would be more than happy if I’m wrong.
/E
1. On sensor PDAF. Nikon 1 like AF performance.
2. Fast boot up speed.
Virtually it have to beat DSLRs in most fields to get a decent market share, especially when Sony charge it for such a high price. Without the mirror assambly the camera should be much cheaper than DSLRs I think…
Forget about Nikon 1 AF performance. Nikon 1 got great AF because it has TINY sensor and huge depth of field. You don’t need to have accurate focusing, hence you can get much faster AF.
NEX-FF will allow paper-thin depth of field, so focusing will be slow in comparison to Nikon 1 or DSLRs. Laws of physics.
+ tiny lens elements that need to be moved
yep. This also makes slight difference.
A summilux 50 asph costs $3700. For someone who can afford such lenses there’s no problem in a body at $3-4k. The only caveat is that the lens has to work as well on the NEX as it does on the Leica body!
If Sony want to sell the NEX-9 to Leica fans, the Summilux will have to give better results on the Sony than on a Leica.
Focussing will certainly be better, because it will use peaking. This is more accurate than a rangefinder as there are no cams and mirrors to be calibrated, and it covers the whole image.
Resolution is only likely to be noticeably better if they use a multilayer sensor.
If Sony want to sell the NEX-9 to Leica fans, the Summilux will have to give better results on the Sony than on a Leica.
Focussing will certainly be better, because it will use peaking. This is more accurate than a rangefinder as there are no cams and mirrors to be calibrated, and it covers the whole image.
Resolution is only likely to be noticeably better if they use a multilayer sensor.
In Sony style “4k in Europe” means “€4k”, no matter it only costs $4k in USA. This means it would be about $5.5k in equivalent. Only $500 less than Leica M, which is truly exclusive, with lots of complicated mechanical parts, excellent service. This price only doesn’t amazes me though: Sony management only confirms how bad it is 🙂
I wonder who bit them so they decided they are premium brand. I actually wonder about all japanese “premium” things. Asians in a whole just unable to respect others enough to be premium seller, not their cup of tea.
All this pricing stuff and expressions of false outrage is a bunch of humbug. Within a year after it’s introduced, it will be trading at a par for the market.
SONY can easily best Leica, by making this camera smaller than the M240. Each new Leica model is larger than the previous model, they hardly look like the old film Leicas. Small is very desirable and would convert many.
Importantly, people that are interested in the affordability of this camera should really be focusing their attention on M-compatibility at the sensor level.
When SONY pitches its lenses at $1500 at the market, they will be very pleased to discover they can substitute a small fullframe Voitlander that performs as well for $300-500.
Why do they try to construct a super hi-tech pro? It is a definite failure. Just do it in a easiest terms and ways, make an enrty- or middle level camera with FF sensor! Get rid off EVF!
sony… plz make more better e-mount lenses instead of bodies. we want fast zoom / prime lenses without using adaptor.
how many nex photo cameras do we have on the market now… nex 3, 3n, c3, f3, 5, 5n, 5r, 6, 7
If it will be VERY COMPACT it will sell (and I may buy one). That’s the crucial reason why RX1 is selling. But make it compact, Sony ! If the lenses will stick outside too much you will have a loser on your hands. If you only offer a big NEX with viewfinder, it will not make profit. You need to offer a NEX-5R FF equivalent maybe even without a tilt screen but very compact. Most people (not those on these forums) need image quality in a compact form factor more than anything, and will forgive anything else (even a lack of viewfinder).
For the FF NEX, do a new mount with compactness in mind. Also work at some launch lenses which are as compact as possible.
you should work for sony..seriously..oh wait..physics kicks in.
The only reason why RX1 is so compact is because 20% of that lens is inside the body and the rear element rests a mere 2mm away from the sensor. Lets imagine we try the same in a mirrorless interchangeable body, especially at the price point suggested here and the quality suggested here… we are not going to get very compact.
You can’t get something for nothing.
Thank you. Finally someone who realizes that you can’t make RX1 by simply cutting off the lens.
Thank You!
You’re welcome!
I don’t understand. What’s the problem with allowing the lens to protrude on BOTH sides of the mount and not only on one side (so the mount is not at the end of the lens, but more like in the middle) ?? Yes you can make an RX1 by cutting off the lens.
If they come out, say, at $3500, I’d expect that to sell about as well as the RX1. A bit more expensive, a lot more versatile, and appealing mainly to the enthusiast and “too much money” crowd.
Sony know exactly how the RX1 is selling (I don’t), so if they’d be happy with those numbers, given the camera would also:
– Get huge press
– Make Canon and Nikon seriously concerned
– Provide an engineering base for further products (price will inevitably come down)
then they need to pull the trigger. They should treat this much like Fuji is doing with their current APS-C mirrorless: that is to say, conentrate on making GOOD lenses, even if they’re fairly large and expensive, and cater to the enthusiast crowd from day one.
Given positive reviews and a few high quality lenses available, I would buy it.
I agree with what you say. I wish people here would think about it more and see that nothing new comes from no sacrifice. Price is a big determinant but I doubt Sony hasnt thought about that in depth.
I suggested a price closer to the $3000 mark so a kit would be around $4500. At this price point, many people would sill use their E – Leica M adapters and use those lenses to at least have their original focal lengths in use.
For that price, too, the extra over D800 and 5D3 justifies in the smaller compact package.
Now, here is the real kicker. For that price people would appreciate (especially filmmakers) that the video codec would be other than AVCHD because even Leica offers a better codec in their purist cameras. That would be a major plus and plenty of filmmakers may want to buy a FF NEX for being compact, the use of FF lenses, have greater depth of field freedom and an amazing codec!! HAVE SONY NOT THOUGHT OF THIS YET????
Assuming the camera will be as great as we all think it will be, $2000-3000, I’ll probably adopt early. $3000-4000, I’ll adopt… a wait-and-see approach.
Sony have totally lost it!
In 2014 Nikon will probably bring out a Nex-9 killer for $1500
You are seriously delusional. How will Nikon bring a NEX killer when their mirrorless line is still a spring chicken…no wait, it still feels like an egg.
Well, I wouldn’t mind if the price drops to 2500 $ within a few months, and if that price is converted into a fair European street price of EUR 2000. Why not. But if they are pulling that trick again selling the camera at an even higher price in Europe than in the US (see RX1, which should cost no more than EUR 2200 given the price drops in the U.S.) – well, Sony, in that case you can keep your NEX-9 and I’ll keep my NEX-5 plus its lens ecosystem I already bought into.
2500$ = 2500€. Corporate logic. Don’t forget it.
But the recommended price is 2700 US$ vs. 3100 EUR… Should be the other way round…
2000 USD or less is reasonable (preferably including a good lens). If they really want to sell, they cannot price it higher than the Nikon D600, and most definitely not higher than their own A99.
You are delusional too. Honestly, it is not for everyone. Sony is not Robin Hood and they shouldnt be. What other FF compact camera do you know? Don’t say SLR because they are not compact and that argument itself is flawed.
Leica doesnt only sell on brand, it sells on its lenses and the fact the system works well with new age innards and the same usage technique of yesteryear. Their system delivers great image quality in a package smaller than a 6D or D600 and f2 any lens.
wow. it better perform better than Nikon and canon ff for that price.
3000 to 4000 $ is way too much. If Sony executives think they can charge a ‘Leica premium’, they’re wrong. Only Leica (and Hasselblad) can.
There is definitely a market for a ‘poor mans Leica’, but it has to be affordable for that kind of customer. I guess in many cases the ‘serious enthousiast’ who earns a good living but who hasn’t got an unlimited amount of money to spent on his hobby. I’m one of them. I’m willing to spent at maximum the same amount of money as for an A99, same logic for lenses: maximum the same amount as for A-mount lenses. Certainly not more. If Sony would try charging more, they’re really trying to compete with Leica. Which is a rather small market. And then the people that are in that market, i.e. those who can afford it without any problems, will go to the original: the Leica. You can’t brag with a Sony, you can only brag with a Leica.
BTW: these FF E-mount lenses should have a form factor that fits the camera… I don’t want to put my 24-70mm f2.8 CZ (1 kg!) or something similar on a ‘tiny’ camera. I guess that many people would like a NEX-9 for street photography, travel, therefor the lenses should be reasonably small.
+1
I would love a small camera that takes great, sharp pictures, with interchangeable lens. But there is no way I will pay that amount of money.
What about a NEX like camera with ff sensor, but less fancy options. Or is it the sensor, that raises the price?
The sensor will be the main cause of the high price.
R&D costs also will be high and have to be spread over far fewer cameras than the costs for the NEX 3s or 5s.
The sensor will be the main cause of the high price.
R&D costs also will be high and have to be spread over far fewer cameras than the costs for the NEX 3s or 5s.
C’mon, SAR (or WordPress), let me post!!!!
Me too have had big trouble posting comments since about 3-4 months back. It wasn’t possible to post anything AT ALL until perhaps 6 weeks ago or so. Then it was possible to write ONE post only, but all comments thereafter were thrown away without notice. Today I did succed to make two comments. If this one also will get through, it will be three…
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Of course price matters much! And i will compare it with SLT/DSLR body.
I will only wait for 2K NEX-FF (maybe NEX-8) with ff-nex lenses i wanted.
No way FF needs to be affordable not hugely expensive.
And the DSLR comparison is valid IMO you want FF you buy a DSLR because Sony will price a FF NEX well above DSLR’s
Even when NEX will be cheaper to make. APS-C will do for most people FF NEX is not likely to work for Sony bar niche market
Sony don’t get that their A99 is badly overpriced, they will make the same mistake with a FF NEX
No, the A99 is NOT at all overpriced, it has some completely unique capabilities.
But a FF NEX for $3000-4000, that will certainly be overpriced. UNLESS it comes with some never before seen and really unique capabilities.
.
The A99 is overpriced in a market dominated by CaNikon. The main criticism universally aimed at the A99 is price.
I disagree, a99 is not overpriced. It always depends on who you ask. Someone coming new to the market, with some money, their options would be many, this is true. The build of a99, the IBIS, the EVF (if the new comer doesnt mind) and the video features make it rightly priced. What makes the system expensive is the CZ choices so when you make up your numbers, a Sony kit will be more than a D800 kit or 6D kit with similar lenses.
D600 and 6D are FF, yes, but those bodies are cheaply made.
People think A99 is overpriced because they compare it to D600 where only thing they got in common is sensor.
It’s like if you’d compare A77 with D3200. Ridiculous.
Thank you. This man has perspective. This is what Sony needs, people with perspective to understand what it is to launch a product at a price point with certain features.
If they really want to sell those cameras, they should also get world famous photographers from Magnum or Reportage by Getty Images or VII network to promote the ‘photojournalism’ aspect of it (thus competing with Leica and Fuji) and not a blogger.
It will be a flop with anything under 36 mega pixels. If they want to stop the presses and get people outside the Sony circlectobtake notice it has to be 36mpx or more.
I agree.
At 24 Mpix, a NEX-7N plus a speed booster will give almost the same results. It would be hard to justify the price for a marginal increase in image quality.
But really, we don’t know nearly enough about the specs for the proposed camera to make any good judgement.
Yea..all the goodness packed in a small body. No doubt it will be more costly.
If you can afford. Good. If not then thats too bad. Life goes on.
Just really funny how some people today still expecting cheap and expect it to be really good.
It’s Sonys time to take over the camera market and ….
Once again screw up by pricing it wrong.
Sell these as a bump up from the Nex 7 $2000-$3000 and these will sell like hotcakes.
It will put Sony on the map for photography. Price it high and people will stick with Canikon
If SONY wants to have a product that blows the Nikon D800 or Canon’s 5D MkIII out of the water and costs less than (or the same as one of those cameras) my advice to SONY would be that they skip full frame altogether and release a 24/30/36 Megapixel sensor with a much larger area than the currently commonplace 24x36mm (135 film equivalent full frame).
If a whole new lens system needs to be launched in order to cover the 24x36mm sensor anyways, why not launch a camera system that allows its adopters to produce measurably different-looking images when compared to the images of our peers.
Just look at the popularity of Jose Villa’s weddin and portrait photography… THAT is what professional photographers are up against in 2013. The images that are ALL OVER Pinterest and Style Me Pretty and are shot by the likes of Jose Villa (and his imitators and disciples) are all shot with a Contax 645AF body loaded with medium format film, and with a Zeiss 80mm f/2.0 lens attached to it. Oh. And they’re all shot WIDE OPEN.
It’s a look that can only be matched digitally by purchasing a VERY expensive Phase One digital back. See here: http://www.phaseone.com/en/Camera-Systems/P-Series/P-Specifications.aspx
So SONY, if you forget full frame and give professional photographers the digital tools that we would need to not only compete with, but blow away our Nikon and Canon shooting peers, you’d have a niche market product that you can market to a niche segment of professional wedding photographers, for a niche price point.
Get Zeiss on board and launch a 55mm f/2.0, an 80mm f/2.0, and a 120mm f/2.0 for a digital camera that contains a 40x54mm sensor (645 medium format film equivalent full frame)…
And then you might have a hope of selling THAT camera for $4000-$5000 and charging $2000 for each lens.
#MFNEX
People might think they want a FF NEX but when they see it they won’t and I think Sony know this.
People want a Leica style rangefinder with AF, IBS, rangefinder-sized lenses and a reasonable price. The reality is it won’t have stabilisation, the lenses will be bigger than NEX lenses and it is going to cost an absolute fortune. And the performance will be slightly inferior to the A99.
It’s also quite likely that Sony will give it a slightly smaller than FF sensor. Even a few millimetres makes their job much easier.
It is easier per invested dollar to add performance via sensor enlargement, than by technology enhancement. Also, high end products are advertising the whole series.
On our side things are different. We do not want one more lens series. We want more features on the series we have invested.
For the time Sony can feel the best in this area. But.. others are coming close. If Sony does not focus on its best selling area it may need to share it more. Investments capital is not unlimited.
its no surprise.. its sony guys! always overpriced their products:(
I think 4,000 is a bit much but if they have some mind blowing tech stuffed in there then maybe. I think 3,000 should be the most. I think if sony made slim AF adapters for other camera companies they would sell tons of them but they are never going to do that. I hope things work out because I really like Sony and decided I will stick with them because the underdog always rises. Canon cannot be number one forever.
that’s no surprise 🙂
but if the lens is really good i think it’s worth to have nex 9
If on one hand they aim to place it in the pro market it clearly needs to perform at least equal to 5DM3, D800 and A99.
And if on the other hand they fear it becoming a flop due to the price consideration they clearly have not decided where to go.
The solution would be going into a two-way direction. Creating the top-notch NEX FF, and a second reduced one for the “mass” market.
1dx… when i have 1dx why buy this crappy toy? maybe for 700 dollars… maybe
Let’s start with a 2500 pro, full frame, splash proof body with state of the art articulating touch screen and newest EVF. That’s in the price range of full frame DSLRs. The only thing is, the new FF NEX won’t offer the wide range of lenses to choose from. As compensation, you’ll have all the engineering effort that’s gone into making what’s likely to be the world’s most compact FF interchangeable lens camera. That still leaves us at a price of around 2500.
A FF NEX would have a lot more appeal and be more useful to me if I could use Leica M-mount lenses with it (Zeiss ZM). So add another 1000 if the new sensor features micro lenses that are optimized for use with M-mount legacy lenses. That brings us to 3500.
Add a simple 35 or 40mm F2.8 autofocus prime that offers good image quality wide open and Sony could add another 500 to the kit price as far as I’m concerned.
Grand total: 4000
That price would be in Dollars. This time around, let’s have a fair price equivalent for those of us living in Europe.
I would suggest still $3000 for the features you mention but I would happily pay $1500 for a 35mm f2 AF if it performs close to RX1 Sonnar (I did not say same because I know that would be more difficult and it would cost more)
I would pay $1000 for a 50mm f2 if it performs similar to the 50mm Makro Planar ZE/ZF2 even if its not a macro lens.
The third lens Sony should launch with this FF body should be either a 24mm or an 85mm, depending on what market they believe will be likely to buy more of. Any of those two, f2 would be good enough, again, if the performance is rated as excellent (centre to corners)
That camera priced over three thousand dollars will sell like…. well it won’t sell. Sony will probably make it and price it at a ridiculous price point just because they can, but no other full frame camera makers need fret about it because Sony always way overprices their best stuff.
Sony needs a halo product like the RX1. If the NEX9 can provide better still and video image quality than the 5DMK3, D800, and A99, then they’ll have a winner and people will pay $4000 because its the “best”. Look at all the positive media coverage the RX1 is getting. While its priced out of range for the everyday man, it’s brought a lot of attention to the RX100 as a less expensive, high-quality alternative. It also has people salivating for a FF NEX because we now that Sony is capable of amazing things at this form factor.
Leave the price sensitivity for a NEX8, which I’d buy in the $2000 range in a couple of years once FF sensor production comes down in price.
The NEX9 should be seen by pros and the ridiculously wealthy as a “must-have”.
The NEX9 should be seen by most photographers as a “really want someday if I can afford it, probably used”
The NEX9 should be seen by the average Joe non-photographer as “i’ve heard of that, isn’t it some camera that Sony makes, that they shot Spider-Man 8 with?”
I voted Maybe because its hard to make a price judgement without knowing the value.
This
Agree with most of this. But I would happily trade the video performance and moire AA filter for extra sharpness in stills, and the ability to use a wider range of less expensive lenses.
Video doesnt have to compromise stills. Only Canon does this.
Nikon D800e, Pentax K5ii, all Leica digitals, Ricoh GXR have all removed AA filters to improve sharpness (Also Fuji in a different way). A NEX having the aspiration of being the top-performing mirrorless would be well-advised to copy the leaders.
If this is true, it tells a lot about how Sony has lost it’s focus with the NEX series.
The original nex-5 was bold and original design. When the sales rightfully took off people started complaining that it wasn’t like the camera they were used to, it didn’t have the familiar buttons, dials, viewfinders or whatever. Sure they got slammed for some UI and other minor problems, but that is what you should expect when you try to bring something revolutionary to market. Sony should have kept innovating around these problems and made the original concept stronger, but instead they started to incorporate all the individual features people asked for leading to the current line of products that have not progressed much in terms of concept design. In product design one shouldn’t ask users what they want but figure out what they wan’t to accomplish and offer them a better way to do that.
It just doesn’t make sense to ask these questions. Because the only way anyone can answer this is by comparing their imagined nex-9 to existing products and that is exactly what the new nex shouldn’t be. In my opinion if they really wan’t to succeed with this new line of cameras they need to come up with a strong concept like they did with the original nex. Had they continued to work on this for the last couple of years, they should already have a lot better understanding of what the ff nex should or shouldn’t be, who would buy it for what money and so on as well as a lot clearer direction for the old nex 3, 5, 6 and 7.
I’m sure some (not necessarily the same) people will buy it no matter what the price. But in the long run the concept of the whole nex system is what decides the popularity, not the price of the early models. And if you have to ask about that in here, then you most likely have not done your job very well..
Sony will sell it’s mirrorless sensor to Nikon and Nikon will put it into a d600 body and sell boat-loads.
Game over
Sony fails
again…
I’m the one who waiting to see this mirrorless FF camera, but I will by it at this price (3k-4k) only if it…
1. on par with (or better than) 5D Mk III or D800 in term of image quality and build quality.
2. has covered range of high quality zoom lens in smaller size than current high-end DSLR’s zoom lens.
Looks like you’ll be buying a 5D Mk III or D800 then. 😀
Ha ha….I will say yes, if they come with near compact size like NEX series. 🙂
Only if it is big enough to fit My big hands. I like the NEX system and the mirrorless concept, but currently all of the models are way to tiny (for Me).
I don’t care anymore what yet another experiment Sony is getting themselves into.
I have been following Sony for a while and I am using Sony camera (those damn old Minolta lenses!) but I just don’t see any clear vision nor any dialog with customers.
I would not buy any new system from Sony.
I would fear it will not be properly supported by Sony not to mention 3rd party vendors.
Well, I actually feel kinda split regarding the estimated price of the NEX-9. A part of me never understood the people who expected this FF NEX to be launched with a sub $2000 price tag. On the other hand, $3000-$4000 really feels steep at a quick glance. If this is a true figure, it indicates that Sony probably goes all in on the NEX-9. We should expect excellent build quality, excellent UI and controls, and last but not least, stellar image quality that easily matches that of any other FF camera on the market. Personally, I was hoping for something in the range of $2500-$3000. Mostly because I expected the camera to be simpler, more or less a NEX-7 with a RX1 sensor, and partially because that’s where my personal financial pain threshold is for a NEX camera.
This is my take on why Sony actually thinks $4000 is a good idea:
Sony wants a true flagship NEX to boost sales on the rest of the NEX’s. This camera does not need to be sold in large numbers and will be considered as an icon/inspiration for NEX users and people who are considering buying a NEX. This approach is often used in the automotive industry where car manufacturers presents very expensive race/luxury models in small numbers (most likely at a loss) only to shed some exclusivity and flare to the rest of their brand.
Competition. The only competition in this specific market is Leica. And though the price tag for the NEX-9 and the Zeiss lenses will be hefty, they will still be a lot cheaper than their Leica counterparts.
Will I buy a NEX-9 for $3000? If it is something more than a souped up NEX-7 I just might. Will I buy it for $4000? Well not likely, too pricey for me. I’d rather go and get myself a couple of Speed Boosters and a NEX-7n instead. Or maybe a RX1, it just got kind of affordable. 🙂
I like this contribution to the discussion. It sheds a pretty good understanding of marketing and pricing of what potentially will be a seminal product for a corporation that is, without doubt, taking great strides in technology for photography.
Indeed, Sony understands the Leica pricing strategy, but they are mistaken if they think that they can do what a Lexus does for Toyota, or Infinity for Nissan. Sony should rather think of itself like Sony…”we are going to innovate because we can” (RX1 + RX100) “…and we are going to to show you all that we can make it relatively affordable for what it offers”
Haha. I had to double-check my calendar – for a moment I thought it was April 1st (April Fool’s Day) 🙂
Should Sony charge $3000-4000 for the full-frame NEX? Of course not (at least, not *NOW*). It would be sure to drive a large segment of their market to CaNikon… Fuji or Samsung).
In fact, I very much doubt that Sony is considering such a price point – more likely it’s a ruse to help drive sales of the NEX-7n.
No. This is the Strategy Sony needs to employ:
1) introduce a FF NEX at a enthusiast-friendly price. It should sit just slightly above the Nikon D600, say about $2300
2) introduce a number of very high quality full-frame lenses geared to pros over the next 2 years, as well as a new lighting/flash system
3) after gaining a foot-hold in the FF market segment, and making available a good line-up of pro FF lenses, Sony may then, and only then, offer a high-end, weather-sealed, pro-level body at a cost of $3000-$4000.
If Sony tries to offer a $3-4K body initially, I’ll be sticking with Nikon for my FF work and looking with great interest at what Samsung has to offer in future.
I disagree. The fact that this is a NEX it doesnt mean it has a price cap. You are suggesting Sony that they should price to compete with APS-C competition…
The D600 is a full frame and sets the bar on where full frame pricing should be in comparison to APS-C models.
So far Sony has managed to miss the mark on their cameras. Not sure why I expect a NEX 9 to do better. The A99 would have been killer at the price if it had 10 fps FF, the big advantage of a non moving mirror is cheaper high fps, Sony dropped that ball entirely. A little faster processor and little bigger buffer and it would be a great camera. How much did Sony save leaving these out? They cut corners to get the A58 price down to entry level, but how much would it have cost to leave the old LCD on it and keep the frame rates higher. Instead of a killer entry level camera they have a so-so one.
Apple has shown that you make a great product by making a great product and doing so at a price people can justify the purchase. The price does not have to be the cheapest just justifiable. Listening to users can help you improve a current product but does not help much on making the next product line.
For me to buy a NEX 9, I would need more money in my camera budget, even it was only $2800. The key to me would be for it to work well with legacy lenses, this means body stabilization, I have a number of nice M42 mount lenses I would like to keep. Having Zeiss FF E-mount lenses would be nice but they tend to be very expensive which would make the NEX 9 very much a niche camera.
Having a pro level niche camera with great lenses may be a profitable area for Sony, but they are going to have to link it to Pro Services. People do buy $50,000 video cameras with $40,000 lenses, just not many. These people expect to be treated well and given great customer service. Persons buying $4000 bodies with $3000 lenses (non telephoto) are also going to want a very good customer service experience.
Why would it be priced the same or higher than the VG-900? The VG-20 is more expensive than a NEX-5n and with good reason. I don’t see the NEX-9 being more expensive than the VG-900 period.
The only reason I could imagine it would be is if Sony’s accounting is all messed up and they are trying to amortize the cost of developing a system, which will spur many variants and models over the life of just one model (NEX-9). This would be the only reason. It isn’t marketing and it isn’t engineering, it is the accounts dept saying that ‘you’ve spent $X on R&D now you need to factor that into the price of the number of units you think you can sell of this model’.
I suspect this happened with the A99, things like the new mirror, new hotshoe etc. which is obviously absurd, but accounting do do that kind of thing. Sure it means the next model will be a lot cheaper as a lot of R&D is already done, but still. The cost of these things should never be carried by a single model.
Sony surely employs business geniuses who have calculated every detail, but it’s worth noting some points that the average photographer may not think about:
– Mirrorless is one of the most important future technologies in photography, but are full frame sensors also one? Nikon did not start by bringing out D600 that is now strenghtening their position in the high-end market. They made something more expensive, and only recently started leveraging the know-how in cheaper models [citation needed]. If Sony wants to create and dominate the full frame mirrorless camera segment, this is a necessary investment they have to make. And why not sell some expensive cameras to enthusiasts while carrying out the R&D?
– Starting to develop the lens base may be even more important if Sony ever wants to succeed in this market segment. Again, Nikon had a large lens base for their full frame cameras before they brought out D600.
– Many of the researched technologies can surely be leveraged in APS-C cameras. Sending astronauts to moon was immensely expensive, but surely all the technology advancements would not have materialised if NASA’s engineers only gave it a consideration (and perhaps built some model lunar landers) instead of actually doing it. Off course mass production is different than one-off mission, but there is no question that bringing NEX-9 to the market would give Sony valuable experience for all future products.
I would not buy such an expensive camera and currently even don’t use a Sony. I still hope they do it to push the mirrorless technology and also put pressure on other manufacturers.
I am wondering why NEX-9 should be much more expensive than NEX-7?
FF sensor costs probably 300 euros more than APS-C. Bigger shutter – another 100 euros. More plastic in bigger body – 5 euros. That’s it.
900 + 300 + 100 + 5 = 1305 euros.
Why 3-4 thousands ?
WHY ???????????????? !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 🙂
There is a huge market for professionals (not photo professionals) who want to and need to take high quality photos and videos under low light and without time to prepare like a photo pro. They include doctors, lawyers, inspectors, builders, etc.
The most important “flaws” or insufficiency in current cameras are:
Focus too slow, particularly in video, but also in photos in low light.
Low sensitivity, far more important than more pixels. Instead of a camera with 36 Mp, make one with 16 Mp but large pixels.
Compensation for movement (image stability).
Professionals often need to take photos and do not have time to set up a flash for large spaces, and are moving. In my experience with top cameras, they focus too slowly in low light, they do not compensate enough for movement, they are not sensitive enough, particularly for video.
I would like a camera that focuses fast with photos and video, in low light. With large pixels. And compensates for hand movement.
I have a Nikon D600. Compared with a Panasonic GH2, or a Canon DX sensor, it takes much better photos and videos. However, it has too many pixels.
Alternatively, a camera should be able to combine pixels to take photos in less light.
The Canon cameras I used were too slow to focus in low light, and during video.
Price is an important but not a decisive factor IF the technology is superior. But if the technology is about the same, then price is a factor.
I did not find the technical reviews very useful. In my experience, they do not address the matters that concern me as a practical user, not as a professional photographer.
I want a camera that I can take with me with few attachments (preferably ONE lens, about 30 to 150, f 3.5). I want MORE things in focus, not less (usually). It should focus quickly and accurately, and compensate because my hand moves and I cannot use a tripod (because I have to frequently change to different positions and a tripod is not practical).
Too much of camera design and reviews are aimed to people who like to take photos. Instead, we need cameras for people who take photos for their jobs (other than the job of taking photos), usually in small areas (telephotos not needed, macros yes), with frequent movement, and the need for photos and videos.
A camera that focuses about the same speed as a D600, and has about the same sensitivity to low light as the D600 (within a factor of 2) should cost about the same, even if it is protected against temperatures under 100 C or heavy storms (rarely found inside buildings).
Canon just developed a FF sensor with barely enough pixels to do FullHD recording. That should solve all your problems.
Sony will fail kn the marketplace and here’s why.
Sony is only striving to equal the competition not surpass it.
If they succeed they will only an overpriced average camera while thier competition will be producing better stuff.
Sony needs to produce a really high resolution camera and try using some of thier many patents that are just sitting on the shelf.
Try a 100mp square sensor that I would buy.
Also make it mirrorless stacked organic with built in image stabilization.
Sony has the technology and patents to do it.
Stop giving us mediocre baby steps in technlogy or you will fail.
Some of what you’re saying is true, but some of your demands are over the top. Are you willing to give Sony the proof of you your financial mean that you can actually pay for a 100MP square sensor with a Foveon-like technology? I guess if you are that well-off, you are already shooting with a Canikon and their 500 and 800 lenses instead of frequenting SAR.
Look at the Sony NEX-VG900E FF camcorder.
It’s price is $3.149, that is including the LA-EA3 A-mount adapter.
It also got an OLED EVF.
So… if a big FF camcorder cost $3.149,- today, I believe a
FF NEX still/video camera with EVF could be made for around $2000-$2500.
Time will tell.
Just give me a speedbooster type adapter for alpha lenses on my NEX 7 and we will call it a day. That would accomplish most of what we want from a small, full frame body.
I think it is mainly a question of quality.
If the NEX-9:
– produces excellent image quality (DR, Noise, color rendition, etc.)
– has an ergonomically superior body
– has a very, very good viewfinder
– is “ruggedized”
– is “weather proofed”
– offers fast and accurate AF
– can shoot 10FPS or faster
– professional quality HD video
and if SONY offers:
– a wide range of optically excellent lenses (similar to Canon and Nikon),
– lenses which are “ruggedized”,
– lenses which are “weather proofed”
– lenses which allow fast and accurate AF
– lenses which allow fast and accurate MF
– lenses which have good optical VR
and also if SONY offers real professional support for the system, then I do not really think a price of c. $4000 (or even a bit more) for the body should be a problem.
OTOH, I kind of doubt that SONY will manage to do all of the above.
Just for fun. How many of the above boxes does Leica tick? 🙂
Sony, when thinking of NEX, should not emulate Canon or Nikon.
If you want to compete against an established (luxury) brand you need to be much better, because people avoid the costs of change (sometimes virtual costs of changing your mind)
Also true if you want to convince people to change systems. Replacing 5 or more high quality lenses with new ones, will cause more pain to ones wallet than the camera body. I can only see this happening if SONY manages to offer superior quality in all aspects of a Nex-9 based photography system.
If I couldn’t use my Nikon lenses with the Nex-7, I would never have bought it, despite all of its positive aspects.
At that price Sony should be looking at Leica’s market.
Make it 50mp and let it work with either A or E mount lenses and they will come!! Even at $4000 it would still be alot less than the new lieca m.
Also keep releasing high end Zeiss glass to match the new sensor and you’ll make even more money Sony!
This system would rock the market and slay the other dragons in the hall.
This is the result of friendship with the Hasselblad,
is a hope for FUJI X-FF.
Are they insane? I’m a Sony fanboy but no way would I pay over a grand more for a nex version of the d600. You can guarantee the focus still don’t be fast enough too.
Do they even know most of the countries they sell their products in are in recession?
They will only gain market share by having pricing a that are competitive and yet again this wouldn’t be.
Total fools…
Forget. The A99 costs less than € 3000. The other FF DSLR’S are in the same price area. Der Drops ist noch nicht gelutscht;-)
I think it should be priced around $2500. The highest I believe it can go is priced around D800 and 5D. And even that, Sony is expected to have the NEX 9 to have more direct controls, weather proof body and other criteria that is expected for a camera that is priced in that range.
They could price it very high, but if no one buys it, then it’s a loss for Sony.
I am prepared to spend that kind of money, but the feature I am waiting for before spending that kind of money is 4K video on a Full-Frame camera. Could be a NEX-Camcorder, could be a NEX-9. Give me that and I’m in. Deny it, and I’m still waiting.
I know that most here would want a NEX-9 at the price of NEX-3 (or lower) and also I bet most of the strongest NO sayers don’t even own a NEX-7 or NEX-6 at least.
Let’s see, how many DSLR-users (or ex users) own a FF DSLR ? Not many I suppose.
I expect the price to be in $3000 range for body (a good FF lens would be 1K+).as the RX1 is close to this with a fix lens. 4K is a little bit pushy but I’m sure it will be a market if camera delivers even at this price same as there is a market for FF DSLRs. One thing, because is Sony , don’t forget the video side. Make sure you can record UHD (4K) video at 60fps on this as this summer new smartphone models will be able to do it. You have plenty of resolution on sensor for this just make sure the electronic part is fast enough.
Agreed. Thank you for pointing that it is quite possible that many nay sayers here may not owners of NEX 7 or 6 to begin with. In a similar vain they would not be owners of the Zeiss 24mm 1.8 for NEX either and if owners of SLT gear, they wouldnt have bought any of the CZ lenses because they know the price of everything and the value of nothing.
+1 The majority of commenters at SAR are A-mount users who are have an interest (as they percieve it) in preventing a fullframe NEX from reaching the market. This question would be much better posed to a rangefinder, alt, manual or video forum. Many there are interested in a fullframe NEX because they already have many of the lenses they would like to use! They’ve already demonstrated intent by putting money down.
As an A mount owner, I would love another option, so your assumption about readers of this group is rather obtuse.
Although I haven’t purchased any NEX, I swear I really, really want one, and I have what I thought was plenty of money saved waiting for a FF mirrorless system. If the body is above $2000, or if there continues to be an absence of full range of primes or even decent zooms (20mm, 30mm, 200mm, 500mm are must-haves for me), Sony will not get anything from me. I just won’t be able to afford it, and I can’t justify it to myself when I can get the D600 instead.
Advantage, µ43.
Hold your horses.
Why should an NEX-9, body only, cost as much as an RX-1? The RX-1 is smaller, has a zeiss lens built into it and as a result, requires a much higher level of engineering and technology in order to complete the camera.
The Nex-9 will more than likely be somewhat larger, and allows for Sony to build more economical lenses alongside the more expensive Zeiss lenses.
If Sony can afford to build the RX-1, a pocketable FF camera with a Zeiss lens for 2,800 USD there is no reason why they shouldn’t be able to build the Nex-9 with a kit lens for the same amount.
Further:
> I know that most here would want a NEX-9 at the price of NEX-3 (or lower) and also I bet most of the strongest NO sayers don’t even own a NEX-7 or NEX-6 at least.
What does this have to do with anything? Sony isn’t interested in just the opinions of their current customer base. They are a company and want to sell these cameras to EVERYONE.
Well, maybe not “EVERYONE”, but at least someone like me, I would think. 🙂
Did you assume that this FF NEX would have the exact same features as the RX1 (with interchangeable lens of course)? If so, then yes, the price is ridiculous. But if the FF NEX is a whole lot better, then it’s another story. It’s all about your assumptions.
I will buy one. I will go to NYC to buy one. The dumb Sony EU prices will be atrocious.
That is not Sony fault, you voted left, you got tarrifs and 19% MwSt in Germany, that money ain’t,t goin to Sony, son.
This doesn’t make sense to make the expensive it really doesn’t. What Sony need to do is make it between 1800-2100$ with good lenses that aren’t only Ziess for 1500$ but also cheaper lenses and quite a range for it as well with at least 5 lenses at launch. That is the plain and simple answer, for a niche product they already have the RX1 which does the job of being the very expensive niche product, and I bet it sold quite well for what it is. Make the Nex-9 compete with entry level full frame DSLRS, and make it just as good or close, and people would really think about it, because for the size it should be really fun. Now for a 4,000$ or 5,000$ body Sony still owes us that A1x. If Sony want to be trully unique they should make the A1x like the D4 and Canon 1dx or similar, I don’t care whether they make it like the D4 with a smaller sensor, great high ISO, and fast shutter speed, or like the upcoming D4X with a monster sensor like the D800 with slower shutter speeds, but still the same quality. That would be great. Now I can also solve the viewfinder problem for Sony. Make it like the Lieca M, with an optical viewfinder, option for live view, and an optional EVF to attach to on the new multi interface hotshoe? doesn’t that sound truly innovative for a DSLR, and if body wise it can be as good as the A99 was compared to the 5dmrkIII was when it does up against the D4 and such, with that innovation, Sony would surely sell these well IMO? what do you guys think?
Makes sense, and I’m not sure why they think it will be so expensive to make. Sure R&D costs may be great to be recouped, but if they sell it at the right price, they can make it back over longer time instead. I also don’t trust them about it being so expensive – they try to sell rx-1 lens hood for $180…
Yup. I’d still buy an A1x.
With, pretty please, a better than a900 OVF (if possible).
A1 is dead. RIP.
Sony my bro,
dont worry, FF nex with same technology and price compare to D600 is still top selling item
believe me, believe you. just make and believe it hahaha
hmm i got something in mind,
Sony or Andrea, is sony have some difficulty of making cheap FF Nex?
maybe the got problem with the sensor?
LOL Sony.jp guys lost contact with reality years ago. One would expect that after all those no profit years there should be new guys with new thinking but they still try play old games.
Look at your A99 sells rate if NEX9 is twice as expensive expect twice less sells or even less, less…
Why NEX9 should be more expensive than allready overpriced A99 is? Will it have IBIS, mirror, better AF, better buffer, better video (4K or at least not soft like from mobile phone), better image quality, no wireless flash deley, no blackout after taking picture, no viefinder lag, no menu and UI lag. If you answer yes to all those questions and make something that is small and can be compared with Canon 1Dx then ask whatever you like.
If at least one answer for above questions is NO then I wish you good luck in new job that you all deserve for constant killing of Sony A and E mount possibilities.
With 2K $ price you could gain huge market, look at Canon and Nikon sells rate of D600/6d. Think about all those FF DSLR owners that you could convert to E/A mount ecosystem. They are in your reach if you make fair prices.
Oh and we allready have FF NEX that cost you 400-600$ for metabones + 200-500$ for NEX body. And this option doesn’t increase your lenses sells rate. Currently it boost other mounts sells.
This company gets what it deserves.
This rumor has transformed itself into a wish list. Lets try to summarize:
For that price, it better have 50 MP in A-mount and E mount
square sensor
20 FPS in full resolution
simultaneous still+video
tethering (a-la Canon)
wi-fi (a-la-Nikon?)
GPS
double card
double battery life
humongous buffer
awesome focus distribution points (a-la-Canon?), not centered
free outstanding software
customizable JPEG compression
HD in RAW
infrared and UV capabilities
Anything else?
Feel free to add to this list (maybe a “corrected” 10 mm wide-angle lens included?)
Please donate to Sony so they can fulfill your dreams
Indeed you forgot my goodies! And I rather think some of them might right up your alley.
1000 frame/ sec full hd video capture
A hologon at launch
But in all seriousness, why on earth go to nex ff, if it’s just more run of the mill blah stuff.?
Sony needs to throw some cutting edge feature into this.
I really don’t understand all the excitement around such a product. What difference does it make if the camera is small, if the lens is huge? I mean, it makes just about as much sense to put an A mount on such a camera, and just use all of the available lenses. Then maybe add some truly compact prime lenses to the A mount.
Sure, I’d like a compact camera that can shoot great pictures. Low light performance, speed and ease are probably the most important things to me on a camera like that. If it can’t fit in a pocket, then I just don’t see a big advantage over an SLT. Also, I probably wouldn’t spend that kind of money on a camera like that.
It makes a difference to those of us that want to use ALL our lenses. For me, a proper NEX-9 is an /affordable/ full-frame digital back with a registration that allows me to use pretty much any lens. It’s not a pocket sized full frame. This is exactly what my NEX-7 does now, except on a crop sensor. As others have mentioned, though, if this is the price Sony sets, I’ll be looking at other manufacturer’s offers, or at speed boosters for my 7.
This.
Why would I buy into a Sony FF mirrorless system, when by the time it arrives onto the market there may well be better and cheaper FF mirrorless systems from Fuji and the darkhorse Sigma. If Sigma bring out a FF mirrirless camera with a foveon sensor its game over for Sony!
Sigma can develop sensors and lenses. Practically all sigma cameras prove that they lack resources to put into electronics.
Ya, if you can predict that certain future, then I see no point in buying the FF NEX. For us normal human, I’ll wait and see before passing ignorant judgement and wild speculation like this.
That is why Sony must have killer specs. Then again, fuji has been said can never fit ff into their x line?
I do not see the point, most of us switched to the nex-7 because of quality and portability at a DECENT PRICE. If you’re going to loose either one they are enough options already on the market.
well.. (pushing popcorn aside)
do you think sony got the point?
I guess they got the point that most people on this board don’t want to pay for full-frame, which makes sense when you look at the DSLR market.
They probably also got the point that people reading SAR think jamming a full-frame sensor into a small body is easy and shouldn’t cost any price premium whatsoever…
Actually the real message is 13% of people here would buy it at that price…
(smile)
Pass me some popcorn…
Put a poll up asking how many would buy the A99 at D600 prices. You’ll then get your answer for how many would pay for full frame, the answer being “a lot” hence the popularity of the D600.
Not difficult to figure out…
Cramming a FF-Sensor into a small body for a cheap price…
You mean like the RX-1 with a Zeiss 35mm lens on it?
Sony should bring out a NEX-9 with FF-Sensor but NO FF-E-Mount lenses.
It simply does not make sense.
They should give better support if not already done to 3rd party to build adapters to FF lenses und promote there own adapters and lenses to put on FF-NEX.
The NEX-VG-900 is too big for photographers. Or they put a FF-NEX into a SLT housing with an integrated A-Mount/E-Mount Adapter that could be changed by another E-mount adapter to Canikon&Leica&etc lenses. Something like a A-mount / E-mount hybrid.
That could attract many people.
I don’t know enough about it to know if I would buy one. Rene, you say “the lenses will be expensive.” Does this mean that I will not be able to use my vast collection of A-mount lenses on it? If this is the case I would buy it for any price. I’m looking for a better camera than my current A900 that I can use my A-mount lenses on. Offer me something I think I want and I will be willing to part with 3K+.
Correction I meant to say I would NOT buy it for any price if I can not use my A-mount lenses on it.
In principle yes. But how long, do you think, you can hold your 2.8/24-70 or 70-400 by a tiny little NEX before you get a serious cramp in your hand or the lens pulls the NEX out it? And what about your image stabilisation…?
NEX is an add-on to the A-mount system for small prime lenses until, say, 2.8/85 mm…
Well you would hold lens. You don’t hold the 300mm with an a77, now do ya?
But no anti shake, good point!
Why make body small? I just want the benefit of short lens to sensor distance camera can be huge for me.
No way would I buy one even at half the price. There are no damn lenses, and I’m not going to use my FF alpha lenses without vibration compensation. Even if the NEX has good spec’s, those can’t be achieved, or even approached, without a tripod. I.E., in real world situations, it will be crippled. NO WAY am I going to buy one.
Make a mirrorless FF alpha with 54 megeapixels and on-chip vibration compensation!!!!! Vibration compensation is mandatory – like airbags and seatbelts in a car!!!!
That is what I meant to say Rob. 54 MP??!! I don’t know about that. I don’t think our A-mount lenses would not be able to resolve that kind of detail. My lens collection while great has limits. I’m not willing to spend money chasing every increasing resolution. I’m drawing a line in the sand with my current A-mount lenses.
The new cz 50 1.4 could be seen as leading a new trend of excellent lenses. The 85 and 135 would be quite usable at higher resolutions, but both need upgrading. None of the above have vibration compensation, so currently there are NO lenses to use on a FF NEX. Really, does that make any sense at all? As I said, and you ignored, vibration compensation is necessary to shoot in real world situations. Do you have no pulse and hands stable enough to eliminate the need for vibration compensation? If so, then you’re all alone, and not sufficient for the basis of a whole new type of camera. As I say, NO DAMN WAY am I going to buy a high end, FF camera without vibration compensation – don’t try to distract by quibbling over resolution numbers – that’s just obfuscation, which you should eschew.
Ibis is indeed nice to have, but there are other cures for shakey hands: shutter speed (=iso performance).
Couldn’t agree more. How many ff Canikon dslrs offer a tiltable lcd and stabilised fast primes? Sony’s on the right track – get marketing and ffs release more amount lenses
I truly believe Sony’s upper management lost contact with reality long ago and they only listen to the presentation of a new product the engineers and designers do for a new product, and definitely lower management don’t want to loose their jobs and tell the JP guys what they want to listen and not what the user base tell them. I like Sony but I don’t like the way they look down to the camera users as dumb people who want to waste plenty of money in their products. IMHO
Sony is literally flooding the consumer market with new NEX bodies. So far, that served the mass market well but burned the NEX brand for the pros. How does Sony expect to get a FF NEX out of the gadget corner?
In my opinion, Sony should switch to the RX brand which is still respected for its exclusiveness and high quality. A “RX Interchangeable Lens System” (call it RXI if you must) could just fit into the current high-price strategy.
+1
Being branded as a Cybershot didn’t seem to hurt the RX1 too much.
I partially agree with you. But don’t forget, in the pro video world, the FS100 and the FS700 are making incredible strides…both NEX based videocameras.
The lack of stabilization options is what keeps getting me. I was thrilled about a full frame video camera until I learned Sony chose a consumer platform for the VG900. They could have packaged the DSLT and the IBIS from the A99, put it in a full featured pro video body, and sold it for $5k or more. Still shooters might have scoffed, but video guys who need a truly professional form factor would have happily paid the premium.
The VG900 only costs $3300. The NEX-9 should cost as bit less.
Uh, I like. And make it a mount.
To be a sales success I think any FF has to compete in middle price range – say no more than $2,500 for a body with pro lenses in the $1,000 range and at least a few semi-pro lenses well under $1,000. That could put a lot of cameras into the hands of serious photographers, including a good many young professionals.
It is possible Sony could build prestige with a very pricey, very fine camera as a long-term strategy, but I do not see that making them much money in the short term. More personally, I do not see me putting that kind of money into something with so short a useful life as a digital camera.
Good news for my piggy bank: It prolongs its life…
Seriously, before I spend 6000-7000 bucks (NEX-9 + 1 lens) for an ADD-ON to my a900 system, I’d rather buy 3-4 high-end A-mount lenses. Unfortuately there are only two left on my wish list, which is on hold, as the future of a900-A-Mount is unclear. Or continue saving for an MF system.
If you’re set on a-mount, then yes, stick with the alphas. But the NEX-9 would be great to use with legacy lenses — Leica, Contax.
24mp nex vg900 isn’t great at all with legacy zeiss and leica glass. It’s bad even with modern jewels like SE 18, SE 21. So, there’s little reason to buy it
Where does this fit exactly? What happens to stabilization? There isn’t even one full frame lens with stabilization badged with the Sony name out there. Unless I am missing something, this sounds like a more expensive option, a more cumbersome option, and every bit as large as a typical DSLR after adapters and lenses are added.
I love my A99 and my Zeiss lenses. And I love the IBIS. Having worked on a few jobs with other Canon and Nikon shooters, I can tell you that other photographers are taking notice of the A99.
If they were to build electronic adapters to allow the Canon IS and Nikon VR lenses to work, then maybe I could see this, but only at a lower cost. A full frame NEX could convince other Canon and Nikon people to either switch or add the Sony body to their lineup. But frankly, hasn’t Metabones kind of already done that, with the added benefit of lower-cost crop sensor bodies and increased aperture ratios?
Perhaps there is an angle here we’ve not yet considered. However, I sure hope they don’t abandon the current Alpha full frame platform.
They have lost their damn mind.
How is it differentiated? Size only? Do people with $4k to blow on a body care about size? Pros? I don’t think so, they love their SLR’s. And Lenses.
For that price they will only be targeting pros for any kind of volume. It better be completely customizable, more so than any other FF SLR out there with an awesome interface, have every bell and whistle like tethering, remote flash TTL control ect. AF better be blazing fast an accurate. Even still which pros would be good enough for? Journalists? Studio & fashion? Landscape & RE? Sports?
That’s before you even start talking about lenses! Including an A mount adapter is a good start.. but it better not be limited to only new A mount lenses. And it should work better than current NEX with legacy and C/N lenses (needs AF). that would be the only chance in hell they will sell many.
OR – be reasonable on price. Personally I would have only considered if it was cost parity with the D600 or equivalent. And don’t think $2100 is the price of the D600 body. Actual price was $1600 during the holiday deal ($1999 kit). At $1600 they might have a chance to sell some. At $1600 people might be willing to compromise on any limitations it has in functionality vs. a SLR.
IMO $1600 might get some decent volume, still an uphill battle.
$3.0k – no way in hell (unless it is truly a “digital back”)
A FF NEX is not for you. Sorry, this is a market that is only shared with Leica. The fact that its a NEX doesnt mean it has to be cheap. The fact that Nikon sells the D600 for that much doesnt mean Sony has to. In fact, Nikon could be just flogging the market with SlR’s just to keep their lenses being bought (like printer manufacturers sell their printers at a loss in order to rape you with ink prices)
You are missing the point. The Sony ship is sinking and they are developing a hideously expensive thimble to bail the water out with.
Instead, produce a D600 killer at D600 prices and they’ll have a bucket. In fact, they’ll have thousands of buckets all bailing out the good ship Sony.
Once you have a firm financial base and a loyal user base, then they can indulge themselves with fanciful expensive bodies that lack a single lens to go on it.
Sony Imaging I thought was doing very well. What would be the worst that could happen to it? Spinned off? Sold to a Chinese company?
I doubt they will sell one of the most profitable branches.
Frank’s just delusional, ignore him.
Frank is not delusional. Sony are losing money.
Sony need critical mass along the lines of the Canon 300D and 5DC – they need something that’s bloody good and comparatively affordable, that people will buy into, then carry on spending on additional lenses and accessories.
Pricing a NEX9 at 3-4k isn’t quite as bad as a Hassie Lunar or Sigma SD1, but it isn’t far off
Yes, I’d buy the camera, but ONLY if the system is there. There’s no point buying a camera at that kind of price unless the lenses, flash system, macro bellows, etc. are available as well. If those things are there, I’d switch from my dslr, because I love the smaller form factor and lighter weight. I know that Sony is working on those things, but Nikon and Canon have been doing it for 50 years, and have the product catalogs to show for it. So, I’d LOVE it if Sony would make the commitment to play at that level, but it is a big commitment for them to make.
For anything over $1500, it will be DOA.
Esp since it will not be big enough to look like a true pro camera, and it’ll have to compete with D600 and 6D.
Why do you want a big camera? The whole idea is to make a nice handling, smaller, lighter, high quality imaging machine.
LOL because obviously he’s delusional. DOA anything above $1500? You haven’t seen the camera or the specs and yet you have that kind of statement. And it’s such amateurish mentality to associate big camera with professionalism.
I work for a photographic retailer in Canada. I sell several hundred dslr and csc units every year, and have great familiarity with what each and every sinle one of the different models have to offer.
I really do believe that mirrorless is the way of the future, there is very little that a dslr offers that cannot be replicated with a mirrorless camera, and these few limitations are far outweighed by the benefits that a csc mirrorless has to offer (high burst rate, open to any lens system in the world, better video, etc). As a result to these benefits, I addition to the smaller form factor, we have seen a tremendous growth in the mirrorless market. And while sales of the Sony Alpha line (as good as it is) appear to be dwindling, we are seeing an unexpected demand for the E-mount.
If sony wants to dominate the photographic industry it will be through the E-mount, with a full frame body. And only when it is able to leap frog the technologies being offered by other manufacturers.
What I would expect from a full frame nex 9 camera would be:
A global shutter: huge benefits for still and video.
Possibly a foveon type sensor,
Electronic adapters for Nikon and canon with aperture and hopefully AF control.
As for the zeiss lenses:
Instead of f1.4s let’s have some (T2 ) 35mm, 50mm, 85mm.
By having lenses measured in T stops instead of F stops we can make sure we have even ilumantion within frames (f stop measurements are not as reliable for true light gathering) and hopefully maintain colour fidelity between lenses. This would be of great benefits for photographers, but would be even better for pulling in videographers to the system.
Also, no AA filter.
TL;DR
Global shutter, foveon type sensor, electronic adapters for canon and Nikon, T2 Zeiss lenses.
I and many other photographers buy for $3500, maybe even for $4000.
You had me there, but you lost me at t2. T what now?
I’d buy one but I wouldn’t pay much more than 3K for it. Otherwise, I’ll just wait it out.
I think the price should be around $2300 bo and $2900 with a 30-35mm kit
I am a wedding photographer, and also a camera salesman in Chicago.
Keep these things in mind, and it will work:
1. The goal should not be to sell the most units, it should be to make the most attractive camera.
You can’t worry about cost if you are making the best product. What will succeed is a camera that people lust over. If you start out by making an expensive but incredible FF Nex, it will attract attention and press and buyers. Then you can develop less expensive models. But if you start with a sub-par camera that costs $2000, no one will care about your $4000 model.
Use Canon’s strategy of marketing to the high-end market to make a name as a great company who makes great products, then people will buy the less expensive models. But if you make a name as a company who makes a pretty good $600 camera, no one will take your more expensive camera seriously. A company who caters to everyone caters to no one. Sure, Canon makes cameras at all prices. But they have set themselves aside as a luxury brand, which gives their $500 camera more credibility than yours, regardless of actual performance. This is why Nikon can make a garbage mirrorless camera and have it sell better than all of the NEXs. Brand first.
2. Make the NEX-9 a photographer’s dream.
Don’t be cute. Be serious. No one will spend $4000 on a cute camera. Take the success of the RX1 and the respect that the RX1 has garnered and use that. Continue with a great build quality and continue with a retro styling and ergonomics. Weather-sealing, customizability, built-in EVF. But it needs to feel as good at the RX1. Half-way there means you’re not there at all.
Realize that the kind of people who will buy this camera (right away, anyway) are people who actually just want a full-frame X-E1. Or at least the child of the X-E1 and the RX1. This camera must be made for photographers. It must be made for the people who would spend that much on a camera. My mind goes wild with the possibilities when I think of the Fuji styling with Sony ergonomics and incredible engineering. An RX1 with a built-in EVF, more solid hand grip, interchangeable Zeiss and Sony G lenses, and speedy on-sensor PDAF.
Video? Sure. You know how to do video. But don’t try to please every market, because it won’t work. You have a full frame NEX video camera. This would be a great addition to a videographer’s kit, but if I have to spend more because it also takes a separate XLR input, you’ve missed the point.
3. Stop listening to people who troll on forums.
There are grains of truth and wisdom, but by and large you are reading the complaints of 15-year-old boys who are having fun, or in general, people who likely won’t be buying anything above $2000. Just understand that they are not representative of your market as much as you think they are.
4. Listen to professionals and high-end buyers.
Mirrorless is a new frontier in which Nikon’s best lenses no longer matter and Canon’s L-series doesn’t apply. That means you have a better opportunity than ever to court Nikon and Canon shooters. If they have to re-invest in new lenses anyway, they will be more willing to tell you what they want. Ask the most visible photographers out there and the most avid Canon and Nikon shooters what they want, and they will tell you. Professional photographers don’t care about brand, they care about performance, build, and confidence. If you make a great performing, well-built camera, then all you need to do is create confidence. Maybe something like a separate Sony brand that deals just with cameras to differentiate you from all of the other products you make (if Sony makes the playstation, how much can they really be focusing on making great cameras?). Also consider a Sony Professional Services club.
If you don’t take yourselves seriously as a camera company, no one else will.
5. Lenses, lenses, lenses.
The other nugget of wisdom to gain from Canon and Nikon is that people will buy your $500 camera because you make great $2000 lenses. It is all back to the trickle-down luxury. I’ll buy a $50 Mont Blanc pen long before I buy a $50 Bic pen. In case it wasn’t clear, you are currently Bic in this analogy. But it’s okay! You are working to create a market for a type of camera that only exists in the realm of Leica. You have a blank canvas. Which is why you have to show up with a great product, and great lens support. Whether that’s a series of Sony-branded Leica, Canon, and Nikon lens adapters, or a set of five great primes from Sony and Zeiss, just don’t do what Canon did with the EOS M and give people two lenses. Think of the set of lenses currently available for the X-E1. There aren’t a ton, but there also aren’t a lot of Fuji shooters who are upset about the lack of lenses.
You also have the opportunity to decide what full frame mirrorless lenses will be. If one of the lenses is a super-fast, outstanding 50mm 1.2, something that really gets some attention, and is a great performer, you have already one. You have created something that people can lust after. Some lenses are about utility (28-300), but some are about creating desire, and nothing does that better than Canon’s 50mm 1.2. People talk about that lens like it is made of sex. From the looks of it, the new Zeiss 50mm will be sharper, but ultimately, it won’t matter. It isn’t a 1.2.
Take care of the needs of a high-end photography market with great primes, but don’t forget to make a few drool-worthy lenses.
(And if you will not be able to develop enough lenses in time, then release lens adapters with the camera to allow as many other lenses as possible. Think long-term. Canon was the first to put 1080p24 in a full-frame camera, which cannibalized its own market, and then made them the only camera people buy, which has made them the go-to giants in video. Don’t be afraid to cannibalize if it means everyone in the world buys your camera. It will pay off.)
6. Intangibles.
The leaf shutter in the RX1 is one of the single greatest photographic achievements since cameras became digital. It’s minor, but it is huge. Especially if you can put in a built in three-stop ND filter, the leaf shutter alone will make it the camera every professional will have. To sync at 1/2000 is revolutionary. A functionally silent camera is revolutionary. These are not things that anyone is writing about, but they are the things that will take your cameras from being Pretty Good, to being Professional.
The same goes for weather-sealing. A camera that expensive needs to be able to stand up to the elements. People will expect it (I’m looking at you, new 70-400mm…).
The same goes for firmware updates, but x1000. This is part of the confidence-building. Photographers will respond better when they know that you will support the gear they own instead of making them buy more. The 7D has been out for 4 years, and they are still introducing huge firmware updates for it. This is supremely important.
7. Long-term thinking: Sonica.
This might be the most important thing of all, and is I guess the thesis of this ramble. Show that you are creating a long-term camera system and a long-term brand. This industry is not just about making a new piece of technology, it’s about creating technology that people can use, and implementing it in a way that builds you into a stable, trustworthy, long-term-focused camera brand, and not a technology company trying to make a quick profit from some patents.
Set yourselves apart and introduce the NEX-9 as the first camera from Sonica, Sony’s camera wing. Introduce it with one-year of free membership in Sonica Professional Services. Include lens hoods and well-made battery chargers with each of your lenses and cameras. Show photographers that you take yourselves seriously as a camera company, and introduce a well-made, great performing full-frame mirrorless camera, and show the camera world that you are a company that everyone should believe in. Once you’ve done that, it won’t matter how much it costs (but keep it below $5000). What will matter is just how seriously you take it.
Please take all of this into consideration. As someone who recently sold $5000 in Canon equipment to switch to Sony, and as a working professional, and as someone who works with high-end buyers, photographers, and amateurs on a daily basis, trust me.
Sean Cook
Sean@SeanCookWeddings.com
You had canon, what made u switch to Sony?
I believe we are in the middle of an FF craze at the moment. Prices are on their way down and everybody are going nuts about it. Well, I got myself a FF camera very cheaply a couple of months ago, and to me – it’s all pretty much a hype among enthusiasts. The cameras are bigger and heavier, the glass is more expensive, and what are the real benefits? 1. Shallower DOF. (But you do get very far with fast glass on a APS-C sensor) 2. Better high ISO performance. (But they could potentially make like a 10MP APS-C sensor with almost the same kind of performance as the 24MP full frame) 3. Wide angle (but my Sigma 10-20 3.5 did well – well enough for me that is. very wide and pretty sharp). There are so much gadgetry going on. I get the feeling that we dream of the FF ISO performance, but never learn to expose correctly, which would make a lot more of a differance. We dream of shallower DOF but can not get our APS-C images sharp enough at F1.4. There are so much to learn before an FF sensor is really needed to make a differance. The idea of an FF NEX is really attractive, but in real life, I don’t think the benefits will outweight the downsides, since compactness is a main selling point. (Getting rid of the SLT-mirror is welcome though!) Still, futher on, FF will be the new APS-C – and gearlovers will start dreaming of Hasselblad. FF NEX is probably a wise move for Sony, but it will take a while before this investment starts paying off.
Of course, I´m not talking about pro market in post above.
I really don’t think at that price point that there would be a large enough market. To start with, the market of people willing and able to pay that kind of money for any camera is rather limited. Of those, the pro’s would have their DSLRs, and well off enthusiasts would have a host of other options to choose from, including less expensive FF dslrs.
Many of the enthusiasts with the money to easily afford something like this would already have Leica. Yes, Leica is more expensive, but the sort of person who will spend 3 to 4K on a camera body and then thousands more on good glass is probably going to have the money to afford Leica. And you can’t really compete against the Leica mystique.
Plus, the real lure of mirrorless is smaller size/weight, but with larger FF lenses, along with probably a NEX body larger than the current ones, a lot of that size/weight advantage would go away.
I’m sure it would be a technological marvel…but Sony has produced a lot of technologically great products that don’t sell. Sony needs to work hard to get the price point below $2000…then I think it may have more viability.
The only exception might be if Sony debuted some sort of incredible break through tech in such a camera…some break through sensor, etc…that really made a difference…kind of like the response with the d800 sensor…if everyone knew that this camera had by far and away the best sensor of any camera in the world at that point in time, then maybe…
I have the money, and the Leica m6 ( and Contax, and Contax 645). I would very much buy th sony over the Leica, for a host of reasons. And 4000 is not 7000 still a bog difference.
Like many I bought into NEX 5N (and then NEX-7) as an alternative to my Full Frame, heavy and not easily hidden D-SLR. (Canon 5D Mk III). While I’m not thrilled about buying into more glass for this (and my Olympus OM-D and Fuji X-e1) but the smaller size and option to bring the camera into areas where the DSLR demands a press pass, or simply isn’t allowed.
I was hoping for a NEX-7F that would be full frame, have a higher tolerance for higher ISOs with less noise, faster autofocus, compatible with previous e-mount lenses in addition to the newer full frame lenses and have a cost somewhere around 1499 for a body only.
I’m afraid that this offers no solutions for me. (I’m sure the target audience includes someone beside me though).
Now I’m more curious about what is faster focusing and more high ISO noise tolerant, the Nex-6 or NEX-5r?
Sony are seriously missing a trick if they go down this route with the NEX-9.
A mirrorless camera with all the features of a pro FF DSLR, but for twice the price? That sort of thing is only going to appeal to very wealthy hobbyists looking for a slightly cheaper Leica, willing to pay a lot for reduction in size.
There are a significant number of photographers who see full frame mirrorless not as a boutique luxury pocket camera, but as an adapt-all system that will take lenses from virtually any mount. A digital back with integrated FP shutter that you could use with a view camera, or your collection of DSLR lenses via an adaptor, or if you wanted compactness a FF E mount lens.
The point is none of these applications (except maybe the last one) are going to require DSLR speed AF. Or any AF at all if using old manual lenses. Producing a body with super fancy AF system at $4000 is going to put off a lot of potential users.
I don’t see why they can’t take the RX1, add a FP shutter & lens mount, remove the integrated Zeiss lens and get the price under what they’re charging for the RX1. Seriously, how much does a shutter and lens mount cost to develop/manufacture?
Sony should remember the Sigma SD1 debacle. It was released at the insanely high price of $9700USD, then lowered to $6900, where it languished. I can see the case being used in future business classes of what NOT to do to be successful.
I owned the NEX-7 and sold it. Might be interested in its successor. There is NO WAY I would spend anywhere near the kind of money mentioned for FF. Canon and Nikon both have established track records with FF for a lot less money, with many, many lenses that make their sensors shine.
It was an early adopter price that had to be payed because there was no efficient production technology for the foveon. I guess, that the price was high because they did not expect to sell many of them anyways.
When prices dropped with the merril version, early adopters got coupons worth the difference between the new gen and the merril gen. Everybody happy. Something that sony would never do.
So once they prove they’re headed in the right direction with the A-mount (with the A99 and A77), they will abandon it and move to NEX at priced 1/3 too high. Then when this camera doesnt sell like they want it to, they’ll abandon FF NEX too.
Sony constantly does this thing where they innovate and come up with amazing technologies but always fail to provide it at the right time or at the right price. You need both to be successful.
Good luck Sony, you’re going to need it.
Jack
I imagine SONY wants to emulate what Canon did with the 5Dmk2..
There certainly would be a market for such a camera. If they can make it work well with range finder glass all the Leica guys will buy one. But I can’t afford, and I don’t need a professional grade camera. I want a NEX-6 with a full frame sensor. I’d love to be able to use my Contax G lenses on such a body, but that might be asking too much? What the lens snobs don’t realize is people can appreciate quality and still not be able to afford the best of the best. Quality glass does exist at more reasonable prices. I think that’s what made the NEX so successful. It’s a digital back for some of the great, nearly forgotten, lenses of the past. It would be cheaper for me to buy a D600 and a few great G primes for quality, and keep my current NEX for the size. Sony should make 2 new NEX FF cameras to satisfy both markets.
This is something Sony must build. It’s the future. In time they can release the $2K Nex-9b or whatever. Look at the market, FF DSLRs are coming DOWN in price and are encroaching on the upper level crop sensor DSLR market. At some point the FF DSLRs will replace the upper level crop sensors … or the entire market will get pushed down and the lowest DSLR model will be discontinued. The same would happen with the Nex-9 FF, it too will come down in price, so stop worrying about initial launch price.
If Sony does not build this camera and future iterations then canon and Nikon will. Sony has a chance to take the lead, and if properly executed, to keep it. Canon/Nikon will find themselves out to pasture.
As far as the A99…you can’t compare that to the Nex-9 FF. Totally different. It is old vs New, you can’t draw a straight line from old to new markets and not consider the next 5-15 years. In 15 years we could see a $1000 Nex FF in a Nex-7 body and with crop mode you won’t be forced to use FF lenses. At that time the Nex-3 will be gone. The nex-5 will be 499 with EVF, Nex-6 for 699, Nex 7 for 899.
To take market share, yes, this cam would have to check all the right boxes and execute them perfectly. Additionally an open system would be key to take and keep market share. Also launch with 1 ‘cheap’ midrange zoom lens – $499 – a must too.
This is about the future and by then SLT and DSLRs will be almost dead.
The question Sony must answer internally is this; In 15 years will Sony be a camera company? And what kind of camera company will Sony be?
Even before knowing that a NEX FF body could cost more than an RX1 I hadn’t faith on it. I’ve already suggested here that if Sony ever decides on a NEX FF, it should have an “A” mount, so the lenses would be one less problem and the synergy with the SLT bodies would be great. Of course the SLT would still continue, since for the sake of miniyuarization, a NEX body doesn’t have IS and may be the huge FF sensor also won’t allow an EVF. If at this point anybody still see a reason for a NEX FF, at whatever price, I’d have another idea to throw in: ad a new feature to the A99, use one of the existing assignable buttons to raise and lock the Translucent mirror up when manual focus with peaking suffice. That could also be employed on an A99n with a hybryd AF ( PDAF and CDAF on the sensor ) until CDAF has evolved enough to completely eliminate the mirror. All those A99 features seem quite easy ( and low cost ) to be introduced.
With all that, I can’t see any real excuse for an expensive NEX FF right now!
How much is Sony going to learn from a poll from a Sony fan site? I guess they can learn that even fanboys will vote no. Find a way to get the price down to under $2,700.
Stop wasting money!
Money > all! There is a reason that my department all use Canon cameras and Sigma lens because they are cheaper and gets the job done.
Sony, please audit your own company and survey your own employees. I bet the numbers will surprise you as to how many Canon cameras and Sigma lens you own.
one more note to Sony, between now and the 15 year goal there will be the mother of all economic disasters, a much weaker YEN and unknown geopolitical realignments…
SO to other posters concerns does Sony have the plan, will, and the desire to keep building the NEX FF lineup in spite of the above? I think some people feel overly shell shocked here but can Sony keep the commitment to the platform from an operations and cash flow standpoint? If you can then go for it if you aren’t sure…
Sonys market obviously isnt just japan but the world. You do realize that a weaker native currencies are always in favour of exporting companies? If they manage to keep the yen weak, sony might even get a profitable company again. Meanwhile the average japanese Joe suffers from exploding food prices (Japan imports lots of food).
the future lucas…tech moves on and all companies must innovate or they will die (or sue).
mjp, the future is here now with the excellent A99 and RX1. Sony must build up on their current new models to gain customer’s confidence on the support they get for what they buy.
Investing on another expensive complex new model that may or may not be a success at the expense of developing real improvements to the products already on the market is suicide.
Right now Sony need to drastically improve their customer satisfaction index otherwise there will be no future…!
I agree Customer Satisfaction is key especially in pro markets…not to diminish but Nikon and the D600 dust issue aren’t being dealt with properly. Can/Nik are both reducing support services to keep margins…
About the future – I’m sorry but it isn’t here. Customers will demand ILC products, including FF. That’s the future. Innovate or die. Sony must keep innovating AND building out the product line. Sure Canon lens lineup will keep its DSLRs around for a while but not forever. This doesn’t abdicate Sony’s responsibility to build a better lens lineup.
Sony must move forward – and when they have with NEX and RX – they’ve done well. So let’s keep it going.
So will it be an E mount meaning I could use my Visoflex M mount on it and use my Leica lenses? then given no AA filter and BETTER colors than the RX-1 (foveon like sensor?) an excellent viewfinder? Yes, without hesitation. Weather sealing? that will be even better.
I think it’s hard if this gets more expensive than the A99. I know that the RX1 is getting very nice reviews so there are people willing to pay for premium products, I don’t know if this is motivating Sony to consider that price but $4000 may be too high. But I tell you this, if this camera has all the right feats, fast AF, top notch EVF, good fast primes since day 1, people may end up buying it, you just have to deliver it.
There are plenty of people moving the the X-system cameras because it has the glass, the quality and most of all, people changing from DSLR wants to carry lighter, but the system has to deliver it. With the way Fuji started, their lens roadmap, their commitment in keep listening user’s feedback and improving in each new camera provides what someone changing system would want. So the question is whether Sony can deliver it.
I say, “Sony, put a good zoom lens and a viewfinder on the RX-1, and call it a day. Then put a better sensor and menu system in the NEX aps-c style camera, create a high grade zoom lens for it, and call that a day too.”
+1
Nex-6 Owner here, I would buy it for a little more than a D600, but not $4000 (I wouldn’t buy a DSLR either at that price, photography is a hobby to me).
I would sell all my SONY gear and buy a Nikon D800E
Nope.
This clearly is a fake news to promote the sales of the overpriced A99 and RX1.
I would rather Sony focus on bringing top performance to the APS-C NEX cameras–better and faster auto-focus, good quality telephoto zoom lenses (that compete with micro-43–ie., F/5.6 and less than $1000), an up-to-date flash system with a fully featured compact hot-shoe flash and put wireless flash control in the NEX bodies themselves. And these telephoto lenses need to be super sharp near the center so we can crop them as sensor resolution goes up over time.
I think a FF NEX body will be interesting for non-telephoto work unless you do something novel like pack the center of the sensor with high density pixels so one could still use the smaller APS-C lenses for telephoto work. I don’t think you’ll sell very many, but then high-end products don’t usually sell in volume. You’ll probably get some halo effect if the camera really has no performance compromises (halo effect means you’ll sell more of your lower-end cameras due to the mere existence of the hot-rod NEX9).
Where is the $4000 Alpha Body Sony? Why Nex people will get Pro $4000 body?
Where is all the pro lens for Nex 9? Pro zoom lens? F2.8?
The only way I’d consider this thing is if I can use my A-mount lenses on it. I’ve already invested in A-mount and E-mount for APS-C. I refuse to buy yet another set of lenses for FF E-mount.
I bought a Nex 7 because of the small size and the great quality of the images. The Zeiss autofocus lenses pushed me over the edge to buy into Nex as a mirrorless system.
For full frame I already have a fairly comprehensive Nikon system and I do not see a reason to waste a lot of money by switching to a full frame Nex. The full frame lenses will be big and the main reason why I bought into Sony’s mirrorless system was to have small, light, excellent lenses. The small body will not offer me a sufficient size/weight gain to make me absorb the money loss from switching…
If a99 costs $2500, then a camera with less manufacturing material should not cost more then $2500. Otherwise, it is just full of mark-up values and the cost for technology hype.
More proof that Pineapple Express has made it’s way to Japan
Can we get the nex7n specs? Just post as sr1 is not confirmed… Screw the nex 9… Ill buy ff in 3 years when its 1k.
Personally, I feel Sony doesn’t have a firm grasp on the state of the worlds economy and what prices the market will bare with Sony branded products. They are not Leica, Zeiss or Schneider and will not survive pricing themselves as such. They need to come under the the current consumer/prosumer leaders (Canon and Nikon) prices to be a viable alternative at a better price. Case in point is the a99’s price. It is a excellent camera no doubt about it but priced above its immediate competitors by significant amount and not that much below the industries benchmark competitors model. Lens prices are some of the highest consumer grade lens prices out there and they do not even have to have a IS system inside their lenses that the others must have thus their costs should be lower.
It’s a fools game to think a vast number of customers are sitting out there with $4000 dollars in their pocket just waiting to dump it on a FF NEX which will also have to have a whole new lens system to be viable (and we know just how well Sony has been at lens introduction…. good luck with that). At $4k you can get a full body full frame with a good hunk of glass like a d800 (or D800e that is considered the King of IQ) and is far more versatile than a Mirrorless NEX and its inherent limitations.
To me Sony is starting to fail its own customer base in the area of pricing especially, not to mention someone who is not locked into a system looking at our pricing compared to the others ….. it is highly unlikely they will choose to get on this ship. I know if I wasn’t so vested I would be looking for more economically viable camera systems to buy into than Sony strictly because of their ridiculous pricing. I no longer can afford to stay in this race any longer….. and I know I am not alone.
I agree they are off on pricing. That said, the A99 is probably more comparable to D800 than D600 (except image resolution), so the price isn’t quite AS bad. I still think it should have cost no more than $2200. I also think the XLR connection box should cost no more than $400….
BTW – the RX1 has a lens. There is no way a FF body e-mount can cost more with no lens.
BTW – the RX1 has a lens. There is no way a FF body e-mount can cost more with no lens.
Is it better to compare it to a FF DSLR or to the unique FF mirrorless from Leica?
What about compatibility with Leica lenses or Zeiss ZM?
At this price, giving access to the widest range of lenses is mandatory, not only Nex or Zeiss in E mount.
Moving away from my Sony a850 and all of the Sony/Zeiss and Sony G lenses to Nikon isn’t cheap ether.
We are talking about $9,000 in glass, about $1,000 in flash & strobe changes and the camera at about $3,000. Add in another $1,000 in accessories and WOW $14,000.
This is why photographers get in a system and stay in the system and the reason Sony will never get Nikon and Canon shooters already invested to move.
That’s a lot of money and it will take me more than one year to do and that means I’ll be carrying two systems for awhile
I think, Andrea put it all very well. FF NEX is SR5 rumor so nobody asks our opinion about its specs or price target. The poll rating is surprisingly high at 13% and this is all they wanted us to provide. It would be awesome to watch its release and follow the development!
There might be one way to justify the $4k price point… If NEX-9 is essentially offered as a “digital back” with an excellent sensor an a way to autofocus fast. Sony offers two variety of grips to attach to this digital back – attach a huge grip and adapter for A-mount and other big lenses, add EVF and get an SLR-like camera. The other option you have: attach small grip, no adapter and reasonably small lenses and get a nearly-pocketable street camera. Basically, getting 2 cameras in one. Then I will consider it at that price.
If it comes in at $3K exactly, and INCLUDES sensor stabilizer, maybe.
Sorry Sony but your brand will never reach the Leica level!
A Nex-FF must never be more expensive than the A99 and preferably the same as D600.
To that must be added: 24 mpix is sort of a FF standard in 2012 – but will that be a standard in 2014? Probably not.
Can this camera be what the Leica M is today – just cheaper? Maybe
I also believe that lenses for the NEX FF will be complex designs and thus expensive. Can they have same build and quality as Leica lenses? Probably not.
What is the added value compared to Leica M? Video.
When you start product development of a new product you must be aware of how much customer will want to pay. Too much wishful thinking by Sony marketing will lead to another non-seller.
…now let’s see:
– 24 Megapixels Full Frame
– Global shutter like in F55
– 4K video
– can use every lens ever build via adapter
– built in 3.8 MP electronic viewfinder.
all of that for $4000,-:
bargain!
by comparison the Canon EOS 1D-C costs over $11000,- and you don’t even have a built in viewfinder, so once you start shooting video you have to add one just to be able to use the thing, yet nobody seems to mind…
I do!
There is NEX-9 competitor and it is 5000$ right now – Leica M-E.
Leica have the best reputation and the best emotional value there can be.
At that price Sony need to come close to Leica. Sony have not release camera that Leica fans wholeheartedly love. Even RX1 is a compromise in many aspects – slow unreliable AF, weird ergonomics, lack of humongous built in viewfinder etc.
Of course if the body is close to D4 or 1Dx in terms of IQ and operation and is close to Leica M in terms of control and there are Zeiss lenses….I will dream of it but not buy it.
It is the NEX-7n for me. (if it is the price of RX1 I will stick for years with NEX-7)
Just make a Full Frame native Alpha mount mirrorless body… 36+MP…
No frills. No gimmicks. No adapters. No hype. No fancy pants.
Just basic function in a high quality body designed for stills purists.
It could literally be the size of an a33, and the press would rave.
No excuses Sony. Stop pointing at ghosts to divert the issue.
+1
It might be made in 2 sizes, one for smaller hands and one for larger hands. I much prefer something larger than an A33.
ADMIN – Andrea –
A78 – Any and all updates appreciated a78
Thanks
.
A more reasonable request?
24 MP
iso 100-12800 native
Better focus system than current one on nexs
microphone jack for video
8 fps but buffer be fairly high
Newer and better battery
And all to be priced at $2500 body only(still pricy but seems more reasonable)
The Future of Photo-Camera SONY, where TVs Sony.
Given I was seriously considering the Leica M (until I came to my senses; my NEX-7’s electronic viewfinder is just too useful, and I have a lot of NEX glass and almost no Leica M glass), I could stomach a $3-4k NEX-9 if I can use my NEX glass.
Thiking more about it…it depends I like the idea. If it is indeed close to the quality and operations of 1Dx or D4 …may be I will consider it even and price point of 3000 Euro
May be they should have a camera that is closer to the current NEX-6/7 in terms of capability (i.e. extremely far from pro DSLR) that is a bit cheaper than D600 e.g. NEX-8. That one I will buy within days of the release and will likely buy a 35mm and 85mm lens even if they are about 1000-1300 Euro. It is horridly big amount for me.
Thinking even more…if this new camera has fully functional adapters for A, EF and F mount with all functions supported on contemporary motorized lenses (including continuous AF comparable to D4/1Dx) it could be the one of the best selling cameras.
You buy the top notch Sony and get to use all Nikon, Canon or alpha gear in the old clumsy way and buy one or two very exciting E-mount Zeiss primes
Why not name the camera something exciting
Zeiss Ikon or Contax G Digital? why brand it Sony? “Contax G digital powered by Sony” may be more exciting. They should invest in heavy marketing like PlayStation
You are right, Kiril. This has been beaten to death on this forum long time ago and was expected at the time of VG-900 and NEX-6. The idea is just fantastic!
lol lol lol
sony take development resources from slt a-mount and nex e-mount, not to mention from lenses, to what? to focus in a nex ff that at best will had a niche!
lol lol lol
now, tell me that dont mean push your company from a cliff
i dont doubt sony will sell some of this ne$ ff, just like some people buy ferraris, but to make money they need to sale a lot of cameras and lenses, money needed will not come from niches, how many sales sony lost in the alpha and nex line now and then, just to focus in a gamble at best, sony should had improved the actual alpha and nex lines instead of shift resources to ne$ ff, alpha and nex will support the company not the other way around.
if sony wanted to make an statemant (another one after the rx100 and rx1) fine, good, but not shift resources, dont make nex and alpha be a sitting duck for a year just to make a splash, camera is what had keeped the full company afloat this century
oh well… perhaps canon, nikon and sony camera division indeed will fall from a cliff in the next decade, maybe the rush to dslr from the last decade was a fluke, just like netbooks and the like, maybe all that rise in body sales but lenses attachment drop was the signal the companies ignored, farewell dslr, you will be like a pc in the future, just a tool for niche work, but everyone that love you one time will not remember you.
Sony should look to compete in the DSLR(T) market, period! From 2006 to 2008, following the joint venture and then complete buy out of Minolta, Sony was the fastest growing company for market share in the entire DSLR market reaching 13 percent, selling 1.3 million cameras to Nikon’s 1.75 million. 2011 figures show Sony at 12% and Nikon at 36% (Canon at 44%), mainly b/c after introducing 19 lenses originally (mostly rebranded Minolta’s), they dropped the ball. All they needed to do was introduce weather sealing and SSM on those lenses and include some other ranges that were not reintroduced at their inception following the Minolta buy-out (35-70mm f/4, Beer cans, 35mm f/2 and f/1.4 (today’s is out of sorts) and the host of other great Minolta lenses. I stuck with them b/c I was a Minolta loyalist, and am only still with them b/c of Zeiss. The 85mm and 135mm are great and the a900 kept me there, the a99, again, will keep me for the next two years. Go ahead with the NEX systems, cropped, full, I don’t care as I like the 5N (albeit I want some good zooms to carry with the smaller system), but I want my full frame DSLR(T) when it matters. Your not going to get Zeiss 85mm and 135mm full frame quality (with image stabilization) in the NEX configuration (or the RX1) in longer focal lengths without a huge price disadvantage for 10 years.
I agree. But there is no more need for the mirror, once autofocus is worked out. So a system that moves the lens closer to the film/sensor is simply vastly better, especially in wide angles. And the fixed mirror must take away image quality, to whatever extent.
But you are spot on about the lenses, the amazing macro is still AWOL, for example. But I go one further and say the
At Minolta made the same mistake back in the day, if less so, and thus never competed in the pro market.
And keeping us here, is very different from creating a system that a new comer would choose over canikon., which as to be the aim, I would assume.
Most of you are overreacting. Think long term. Stop clinging so desperately to the past.
Let’s see:
“Sony is disconnected” – Look at the RX1 RX100 the nex-6, nex-7 and the SLTs…nice cameras. A few of the lenses are too shabby either, needs work but it’ll do.
“what prices the market will bare with Sony branded products” – Look at the price of Olympus products, who’s olympus?
“I want to use my old lenses” – Sony can make another adapter.
“There is no way a FF body e-mount can cost more with no lens.” – yes it can. weather sealing. Mag alloy body. and so on…
“I no longer can afford to stay in this race” – what race? the race to spend money? What do you need the latest and greatest for? If your current cams work then wait a few years and a couple of upgrade cycles. Prices will drop and there will be better lenses.
“There is NO WAY I would spend anywhere near the kind of money mentioned for FF.” – then you aren’t the target market. Canon does not have a MILC FF, hello? Why compare them both.
Let’s think 4-dimensionally. What if Sony absorbs Olympus…Can olympus design a high quality Nex FF lens?
Folks we have no idea how amazing this system will become and 7 years from now you’ll look back and wonder why there was all this complaining.
Who’s Olympus? You are kidding right? They have been at the interchangeable lens consumer/prosumer still camera game a heck of a lot longer than Sony. Oly was back in the film days with the OM1 and 2 when all Sony knew was Betamax. Oly’s lenses have always been considered as excellent glass… pricey but excellent.
As far as the “race game” lets take my Nex 7 for example. The so called TOL NEX flagship. Sadly the 5n, 5r, 3n, and 6 work better with all the NEX series glass and for that matter wider legacy glass than my so called flagship so IF I want a UWA Sony glass to work without color shifts or smearing I have to buy a new body to do it. It is sad that Sony branded product don’t function as well on their flagship model as they do on their cheaper versions….. that is “the race” I can no longer afford to stay in. If you want this new glass to work flawlessly I must buy a new body mentality. Sad……..
Jim –
I’m serious. I own oly cameras but no one else in my extended family does and they were surprised that OLY still made cameras. Besides us Camera Nerds, they ALL know the Sony brand. Sony is mainstream, Oly isn’t. Yes I am serious “Who’s Olympus?” is what most people ask (outside us cam nerds).
yeah, that sucks about your Nex-7. How much can you get for it today?
Other companies make mistakes too. m43 Oly and Panny have too but they’ve reiterated so many times the kinks are getting worked out. m43 needs on sensor PDAF next. I think the e-p5 without an EVF for 1K is a mistake…unless it has some major new tech. Even then I’d wait. So Sony isnt the only one. See if you can get a decent price and roll that into a Nex6 or 7n.
Sadly, I will lose close to 50% now that the 7n rumor is floating around the net. Not knowing the actual price for the 7n I would be it will be my Nex7 + $5-600 out of pocket cash so I can use all the new Sony accessories plus most likely having to eventually get their new flash as well as I am sure the Minolta hot shoe is DOA on all new models from now on and I just got a new Metz 58 last Xmas.
That $5-600 comes hard now that I am retired and in this economy and it is a cost I feel I really should not have to make to use Sony branded NEX accessories on their NEX flagship. (I guess you can tell that UWA and how it worked on a 7 REALLY was the straw that broke this camels back 🙁 )
I looked up on amazon.com – Used Nex-7 with Lens – $879 – Roll that into a Nex-6 w/out any out of pocket expense which is $820/used.
The well put characterization of “it’ll do” is right on, but that fact is the problem. Why buy into “it’ll do”, when I can buy canikon with the sky is limit options in body and lens?
This has been this systems problem for decades, one might turn that around and say, Sony will always be a cut below, because it kinda worked for decades.
The change is the sensors, Sony can be number one, cause they got the sensors. Give grand, unique, best in breed stuff, I spec out below, and I will buy, even a 4 k.
Give me ” it’ ll do” and even this minolta holdout is leaving.
Sony trolling their pricing strategy via SAR. Wake up fools.
Ether way, Sony would be wise to keep the body price below $2500 and the kit below $3000 for maximum impact on the compact full-framed camera market. Any more than that, more people will just gravitate towards the 5D/6D/D600/D800 and their successors especially with their already available, wide range of natively supported FF lens selections. In 3 years, Sony has yet to provide a complete range of cropped e-mount lenses, how long will it take to make enough FF ones?
The engineers should not worry about pocketability of the NEX-9 and focus more on functional ergonomics. It would benefit having a bit taller body which would allow better grip when you have inevitably heavier lenses, and should also allow a larger capacity battery.
…it strikes me as odd, to compare an hypothetical Nex-9 with the latest Leica M, arguing that the RX-1 while having been a good camera had terrible AF. The Leica M doesn’t even have AF, nor has it really much else in terms of digital innovations. What the Leica M has is a rangefinder, which is a phantastic tool and in many way superior to any type of AF, if you know how to use it.
But none of this seems too relevant when talking about a Nex-9. What the Nex-9 could potentially be if it is aimed at something like the EOS 1D-C is a camera to end all cameras. Give it a square sensor and I’ll never buy another camera again.
Now obviously some accountant will come along and say that it’s not in the company’s interest to build such a thing and that’s where the innovation ends.
Frankly I’d pay 10,000.- if it could only be this camera to end the crazyness of buying a new camera every two years. I bought a Hasselblad 500C in 1987 and didn’t need another camera until 2003 when I finally had to conceed that it was time to change. And in the last ten years I have owned 7 digital cameras all frustrating in many ways, until I got the Nex-7, which isn’t perfect, but is the closest I have got to a photographic tool I could control, rather than being controlled by it.
+1000000
It’s only relevant in the sense, that a lot of owners of Leica M lenses will be attracted to use them on it. The NEX 9 is half the price and will probably be superior in fps, peaking, size etc.
If the camera is expensive, the market is small. If the market is small, Sony will reconsider making more lenses for minority, if there is no lenses for minority, will totally gave up on this silly no future product. Just like I do not understand why Nex 3n does not support playmemories when they already decide to go towards that direction to making market for apps. Sony is always going forward and backward. Most other brand came out a higher APS-C megapixel sensor would not go back to a lower megapixel sensor. Can you imagine nikon/canon come out a cheaper DSLR in future with a 16 megapixel APS-C and purposely take out some control or apps it has previously? 12 fps becomes 7 fps and eventually 5 fps?
Based on how the other NEX systems are priced, relative to their comparable Alpha equivalents, 3000-3500 seems to be the range it should end up. I think it’s probably a greater engineering feat to get a FF into a small body than a Crop sensor so I can see why it may cost more than an A99.
If it starts approaching Leica range, that’s just ridiculous. Leica charges that much because it’s a luxury brand and knows it’s clients will pay for it. (not to mention resale value is pretty good). The actual technology isn’t worth the money. They may have some of the best glass out there, but 2000 out of that summilux cost is for the name stamped on it. Sony is not a luxury brand.
I would pay A99 money or even slightly more for a FF NEX but I really hope the technology backs it up
If the E-mount and flange distance is making a FF NEX to technical difficult
and expensive, Sony should make a new mount for a new FF mirrorless.
Mirrorless is the future so choose a “perfect” mount from the start, or
the system will always suffer.
I’m not on armchair CEO, merely a photographer, but I am wating for a top end NEX and I wouldn’t mind paying top dollar for a camera with the right (for me) specs. A FF NEX with high res Zeiss lenses would be very tempting for me. I don’t need superfast AF or super clean ISO 50.000. I want high resolution, good color, wheather sealing and files that can be worked deep.
At that price the shooting experience has to be as good as the Leica. If the shooting experience is like the NEX-x series of cameras it will be a failure.
Yes I would buy, BUT … only if at the same time they would bring out a selection of high-quality Zeiss lenses. And I mean at the same time, not 1 lens every two years. And I mean a decent selection from wide to tele and at least one standard zoom, Zeiss, nothing else!
Zeiss with IS!
I own a Sony A99 which is my second full-frame Sony camera. I also have CZ A-Mount glass and a Nex 7. I also have the SEL24F18z which I thought long and hard about buying. The Zeiss 24mm was for me an investment in an impressive compact system I’m not entirely convinced in the longevity of. Furthermore it’s not that compact either. Nevertheless it was the only native lens to do justice to the Nex-7
Anyway back to the question: No I would not buy a Nex 9 costing 3000-4000 pounds. It’s too much for a system that may end up being inferior to what the A99 and other full-frame camera’s from Sony’s competitors currently deliver. If Sony want such a system to succeed it needs to be priced competitively to other FF DSLR cameras if not cheaper.
Marketing and pricing is something that Sony needs to improve on. If we take the A99 price point as an example – it is also overpriced compared to the competition. The price point may have been realistic when the A99 camera was initially prototyped, and had it have been released a year earlier (Sony waited far far too long to bring out an A900 successor) then the price would have been acceptable. Also if you look at the prices of Sony products in their own Sony Store compared to other retailers they are far more expensive and simply unrealistic.
But really 3000-4000 for a FF Nex 9 is neither competitive nor realistic. If only 12% of Sony owners in this forum consider the price to be fair then imagine the response from Nikon, Canon or other brand users which Sony desperately needs to attract. Obviously we need to take this all with a pinch of salt as this expensive Nex9 is after all just a rumour…..
Make the Nex 9 special…36 megapixel!
I can’t afford that. I have a 6D for $1750, and 3 excellent lenses which, combined, cost me <$1,000. I would not pony up $3-4K for body only just to get a more compact system. I'd just stick with my 6D and current mirror-less options. If someone else wants to front that kind of coin, then bully for them! Count me out, though.
As a former Leica M6, FF DSLR owner (1DSmkii, then D700, then 5Dmkii) and NEX-6 owner, I believe I fall within the target audience for Sony here, so I’ll give my own thoughts on this-
– I was reluctant to move to digital til FF digital ‘came of age’, which I believe it did (and more) with the above models of DSLR
– When I moved from a Leica rangefinder (film) to FF digital, I was shocked by the phenomenal size, weight, and (IMO) obtrusive, ugly appearance of FF DSLRs. The results were superb, but I *hated* lugging the stuff around, and unobtrusive travel and particularly ‘street’ photography was hugely difficult. I always missed the M6 in this regard and this was part of the reason I jumped on NEX (missing the 7 for various reasons and settling on the 6 after using the 5N as a separate ‘walkaround’ camera along with my 5Dmkii).
– In many ways the NEX-6 is superb, but I do miss the focal lengths of FF and faster WA glass/bokeh at wider angles, etc., so a FF NEX would be a perfect solution if it lives up to expectation. I would expect and need certain features on an NEX-FF to seriously consider it, though, especially at the projected price-
1. Superlative IQ (it should be considered a direct competitor to Leica’s digital camera, for those who can’t justify the cost of Leica bodies or lenses in the digital era).
2. Lens quality, speed, and compactness (see Leica note above).
3. IQ at high ISO and great DR – clean sensor output over Megapixels – street photographers don’t carry tripods- this would better Leica’s digital too, so no more than 24mpix, but clean!
4. Great video. I need this for work and film-making and it’s the reason I got rid of my D700. Sony really need this to compete- it’s not optional these days and most pros will want this to be a sole body/lens collection at this price. If it’s to replace a FF DSLR it MUST have video at least as good as A99 and clean HDMI out. This will also separate it out and give it a clear advantage over Leica, and help justify the premium price.
5. Great, clean, user interface – think RX-1 rather than NEX here. Again, if you’re coming from/competing with a rangefinder market people will want a manual RF style interface like the RX-1.
6. Forget an optical VF, just give us a great EVF, like the new 7n is supposed to have- twice the res of the current NEX line. DON”T do an RX-1 here, the add-on VF is bulky and, well, bulky.
7. Articulating screen like on the NEX-6.
If all those features are there, I’d say between £2-2500 is a fair price for the body, and about 700-1400 for great lenses and I would buy it. Also I think Sony would stand a very good chance of taking serious market away from Leica (and possibly Fuji, etc.).
James
A mini 1DX with IBIS, Focus peaking, weather sealing, lots of customization, user presets, built in EVF with a dedicated button(EVF/LCD/Auto), more room for fingers on the grip(my knuckle presses against the lens) lenses based on RF designs(compactness).
Lenses:
16, 24, 35, 50, 85, 24-85, 70-200(I don’t care about the zooms, but some do)
Low noise at all ISO, best DR, RF flash control, so no need for on board flash, better menu, more customizations.
No color shift with RF wide lenses.
24MP?! Give me a break. If they don’t do 54MP, I am going back to Nikon!
I’m happy with my Nex kit but I don’t share the FF excitement. FF as a format was invented in the 30’s of the last century using film that at that time had just about enough resolution to use for still pictures. Current APS-C sensors can already surpass Kodachrome 25 resolution so why go bigger? Sure you can have even more IQ and an even more shallow DOF but for me APS-C or perhaps even 4/3 is in the sweet spot between high IQ and a compact system. For Canon and Nikon FF made sense as they have a much wider range of FF lenses and by the introduction of the D5 still a lot of those lenses were in use. If the same would hold true for Sony and FF clients would love a system without an optical pantaprism for a few thousand $ the A99 should be a runaway success.
For me the Nex system is about an affordable quality system that is compact enough to carry around comfortably. With a FF system + FF lenses you can say goodby to portability. And why put a lot of hope in yet another new lens system that would take years to develop and will make Leica looks like a bargain. And this whilst the biggest complaint on this site is the slow and dissapointing development of glass. Wouldn’t it be better for Sony to focus on Nex APS-C? I do like the idea of an innovative camera based on a APS-C square sensor for existing Nex lenses. Sort of the 4×4 system when 6×6 was considered medium format. This is where Sony could be truly innovative with interchangeable viewfinders, converters and speedboosters for their A-lenses, etc.
Sony should sell the NEX-9 w/ High performance G standard zoom lens for $2800(to good to be true) fully WS camera and lens would be nice :-). Where is that lens anyways. It was supposed to of been released at the end of 2012 or early 2013 ( http://photorumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Sony-E-mount-lens-roadpam-2012.jpg ).
I think it going to be like f/2.8-4.0 or f/2.8-4.5 or f/4 based on the longer barrel length than standard kit lens it HAS TO BE a faster f/stop or f/range.
hey lets just keep in mind that either 1.) Sony is not thinking/working on it at the moment, or 2.) the longer they are working on it means they’re trying & improving.
I totally agree if it going to be FF make it at least 36MP or more.
if a FF sensor is 1.6x bigger then APS-C then to keep the pixel ration. NEX-7 24.3 x 1.6 = NEX-9 should be 38.8MP 🙂
Your math is wrong, it’s space size, not diagnal length, so it’s about x2.5, so 24*2.5= 54MP!
I did do it wrong APS-C is actually 1.5x crop factor not 1.6x. So 24.7 x 1.5=37.05 (Pixel Gross : Approx. 37.05 megapixels) 24.3 x 1.5= 36.45MP(Effective Picture Resolution : Approx. 36.45 megapixels).
24 x 2.5 = 60MP -> $5000+ too much. Un-converted 17 RAW images and your at 1.02GB, 1066.66 RAW images and that’s 64GB
33,333 RAW images that 1.99TB
if the current APS-C on the NEX-7 was 27MP x 1.5 =54
36.45M image size 7120 x5120 resolution compared to current 24M image 6000 x 4000 resolution 60M! 9100 x 6600 could you imaging panorama! It shows that we need faster SD cards. “SanDisk extreme pro” has 95MB/s but that’s still not enough.
Take 10fps 24MP RAW 240MB @ 95MB/s 2.5sec writing time.
36MP 10fps RAW 360MB @ 95MB/s 3.7sec writing time
54MP 10fps RAW 540MB @ 95MB/s 5.6sec writing time
60MP 10fps RAW 600Mb @ 95Mb/s 6.3sec writing time.
SanDisk should work on using up all of the SD card housing and make 1GB/s R/W.
Please pass my thoughts to the appropriate person(s) at Sony…
I believe the deciding factor in this market (enthusiast/professional photographer) is faith in the system as a whole. People choose Canon or Nikon because of their differences as a SYSTEM.
So what makes an apparently desirable system? Universality and open source come to mind. The ability to use Canon’s 17mm TS-e as if it was on a Canon body, or a PL mount cine lens, or even an E-mount lens in crop mode. The ability to do this may persuade people to pay the high price tag mentioned in this post.
But what about profit on Sony lenses? Simply put, Sony should contract them to Zeiss (Cosnia, whatever) to build compact, weather sealed, true professional lenses capable of resolving at least 35MP .
Also do things like keeping the lenses compact by building image stabilization into the body, this way in the *future* upgradability is within the camera, whereas the lenses are long term purchases, and therefore desirable as a system.
MOST SIGNIFICANTLY! Partner with Google for Android or *gasp* Apple for iOS to allow app functionality, the apps on my NEX-5R are a joke. Allowing the open source development of apps will open a whole new world in how professional photographers can capture images and distribute them.
For example, camera is on a boom at the olympics capturing images for a time lapse which will then be sent to BBC for immediate use on their website. Right now that is a daunting task, to say the least… But if the photographer could monitor the images, make adjustments on the fly, automate aspects of the time lapse and have automated upload to their employer… well that just makes it foolproof. One photographer could manage 5, 10, 15 cameras this way!
Apps could be developed to trigger the shutter automatically when the subject enters the frame, or upon a certain contrast threshold. So that same photographer that set the time lapse camera on the boom can now setup another camera towards the horizontal bars which will automatically fire when the subject is in focus, at desired frame rates and of course other variables.
Cameras would’t be stolen because it would have GPS tracking and mobile lock-up functionality.
Users could control their own sliders, dollys, jigs, gigapans, helicopters, etc from their phone/tablet.
This would truly open up the market both professionally and trickle down to the consumer.
My thoughts anyway.
Sony should be working on full frame A-mount cameras that this silly FF NEX nonsense. I would like to see a cheaper full frame SLT camera to compete with 6D/600 and a pro camera to compete with a Nikon D4
Sorry, but why do you want 36MP in this type of camera (or at all)? It’s a rangefinder not a studio camera. RF prime useage is street photography/travel/docu. I think it’s important to be realistic about the market it’s taking on. If you want a super high resolution DSLR this would not be the camera for you. Besides this, VERY few people actually NEED 36MP, mainly people who think they do. If you’re a pro who needs to print to the size of the sides of large buildings, or a fine-art/ portrait photographer who works extensively under studio conditions, maybe, just maybe, but even then, I doubt it.
Look at the PRO cameras from all the big manufacturers and their MP count (Canon 1DX is 18MP, Nikon D4 16.4MP, D3X24MP, Leica M 24MP, Sony A99 24.3MP) the manufacturers didn’t pull those figures out of their arses- they get feedback from pros who use them and find out what they actually want/need. The D800 is a very specific camera, for a very specific market and you know who you are and the camera is there for you- go buy it- you’re almost certainly not a RF user.
I used to think more resolution could only be good, until I started seeing SO much work from world class photographers, including London exhibitions and national award winners which are no more than 21MP source res (some less). When upscaled correctly and printed well (this is rarer than you’d think) I’ve seen such prints blown up to the size of large walls in galleries and they are stunning at normal viewing distances relative to the scale of the venue. Far more important is the eye and technique of these people, the DR, quality of the lens, etc.
Hardware wise, much more important than anything beyond about 16MP resolution is clean sensor output, high DR, and per-pixel sharpness- photos with this and correct technique can be enlarged almost painlessly. IMO any more MP than this does not outweigh all the disadvantages of smaller pixel sites and increased noise, and bloated workflow, storage, processing requirements, etc. 24MP is a bit of a sweet spot with current sensor design and should be a good balance of pixel count versus ISO/DR. Rangefinder users don’t tend to lug around tripods, so great low-light performance is a huge benefit.
I agree!
Sorry, but another couple of features, please-
1. Weather sealing
2. Retain the lightness/small-ish form factor of the NEX/RX-1 type cameras
Thanks!
I think there should be 2 FF cameras: nex8 must be 16Mpix with better high ISO of D4, and nex9 around 54Mpix without AA filter.
If you ask me I’ll prefer 8, because with 54Mpix images this means new PC and new HDD for me 🙁 But I’m sure there are ppl that would kill for 54Mpix, just coz it’s 54 🙂
Let’s forget about MPixels for a sec. and think about software, what Nikanon has and Sony keeps on the shelves? SONY, stop counting pixels, but download the Manual for D4/D800 and read it, 2 times! Then copy/paste it and rename the title to Nex 7N or 9…
I love my 5N, and I thought of buying a 6 or 7N or FF nex, but now reading this rumor, I’m sticking with 6 or 7N.
Who cares. They’re making it for the pro market.
Why would a Alpha Pro buy a new NEX system? The adapter take away steadyshot and slows down AF.
Why does everyone want a full frame mirrorless camera? The whole point of a mirrorless system is to have a smaller system than a DSLR.
The size of the glass needed for a full frame mirrorless will negate the size of the camera. People already complain about the size of APS-C sized mirrorless glass being too big or too slow.
The RX series is small because its not interchangeable.
And before everyone points towards Leica as having small full frame glass, that glass doesn’t autofocus and there’s a big difference between autofocus glass and manual focus glass.
You guys want faster horses.
Unfortunately Sony does not understand that a tiny mirrorless video camera is not the top priority (or even a priority at all) for a full DSLR system.
A camera that only matches well with wide angle lenses and regular focal lengths is not a full system. A flash hotshoe only interested in studio or video use also is not going to win friends in a lot of DSLR circles.
When Sony can manage to provide far greater system coverage than NEX can manage they can maybe get in on the bottom of the ladder compared to a full DSLR system. Even their A mount system has a long way to go.
And most important they have to convince people that they won’t be off on some other equipment adventure next week, dropping everything from this week. The steps that Sony has been taking if anything say they won’t support anyone or any equipment long enough to recover the investment. Especially with their prices continuing to climb the way they have been. Pros especially are very sensitive to system costs and life expectancy.
To the 1300 or so people who say they will or might possibly buy this camera I say
“Boo on you”**** that ****…Come on Sony I cant, wait I wont believe they would do that to us. I have an A99, love it and a Nex7 also love it (All Zeiss lens). At that price you to could own this ridiculously great combo yourself. And probably a few Rokinons. If it did 4K video in camera…I buy it so quick…Pipe dreams
Come on Sony
Not interested in a FF NEX. Knock the price of the A99 down to $2000 and you’ll get my attention.
If its going to cost that much then throw in something to make extraordinary…
36 megapixel
Or…
16 bit images from 24 megapixels or higher
Something like that…
54Mpix, so you can make huge, mediocre images. The camera will have a 2 shot/sec burst rate, and will take 3 seconds to write the file to the SD card. Oh yeah, and the buffer will fill after 2 shots, shutting the camera down for 6 seconds. People will love it, because you’ll actually have to think before pressing the shutter button.
Sony is really trailing blazing the mirrorless market but it is still missing one element => GLASS. The NEX series is a really range of cameras but the lenses have been an achillies heal. Leica are immense for their lenses more so their cameras.
This is the biggest risk for the NEX9. I’m sure it’ll be a great camera but I’m not convinced it will have the glass to do it justice for several more years. Take the RX1. Whilst the RX1 is big hit it’s the Zeiss glass that has made it complete. Unfortunately this is expertise Sony doesn’t have.
The make or break for the NEX9 will be how it functions as a SYSTEM, that means compact creamy lenses to compliment a great sensor. Zeiss are good but it hasn’t followed Sony’s philosophy of miniturisation.
Maybe Sony should buy Zeiss to be complete.
The Zeiss glass already exists in the ZM line. The people that want this camera, who are prepared to pay for it, do so because there is no fullframe body available to use their Zeiss lenses with! (the exception being a $7k Leica rangefinder)
considering the current pricing of products, both sony and canikon,
there’s no way they can justify $3,000~$4,000.it’s 2 D600s or 3~4 NEX7s.
I’d be happy with one D600 and a couple of lenses.
Why is sony marketing often so suicidal?
Sony has to price it that high. Most people buying this would probably be more interested in adapting a non-Sony lens (ie Leica) to the camera. Sony is not going to make any money on lens unless they come out with a line of native mount lens that can satisfy someone willing to shell out 3-4k for a mirror less camera body alone – ie the Leica crowd.
A high range E mount system could be technically brilliant and catch a significant niche market. But I’m still waiting for Sony to take its A mount customers more seriously. There is I would have thought a bigger market for a more budget priced full frame camera. And if Sony wants more market share, then this camera needs to have been invented yesterday because Nikon and Canon are cornering that market. Sony needs to get that Camera out at a smart price and count on it to improve some of their A mount lens sales.
I use my nex-7 with M-mount lenses so for me, it has to stay considerably cheaper than a leica M. $3000 would pretty much be my limit. $4000 and your getting to the point where one might as well stump up the extra and get a leica M.
Next FF should be at least 36 mp.
If Sony plans to invest only in Nex and no longer in Alpha, for me it is a mistake.
Or should create cameras with dual mount A and E without any adapters.
Nex line should remain separate and parallel to the line Alpha, designed for different use.
Unless the next body Nex will not have the ergonomics of a body Alpha, it will be impossible to mount some lenses on bodies NEX.
So for me, two new bodies.
NEX FF 24 mpx, without AA filter, 14 bit uncompressed raw
Alpha FF 36 mpx, without AA filter and without SLT mirror, 14 bit uncompressed raw
75% say they wont buy it… where are all the FF NEX Lovers now ??? LOL
Sony is Lost and so is anyone who thought they were going to pick this up at their local “Best Buy” for less than $1,500
Lost, Lost, Lost…
The NEX system and the availability of really good glass needs to be addressed before Sony flys off on a ridiculous tangent of 54MP FF NEX cameras for $3-5K.
Wow, heaps of comments for this one. I can sort of understand, though.
By the time the NEX-9 hits the market, it’ll be in the same ballpark as a used M9/M-E. Sony is going to have to offer something meaningful if they want people to chose it over something with a Red Dot.
For that matter, Samsung will likely have their FF mirrorless on the market before Sony. Would people still buy the Sony if Samsung’s model was 2/3rds the price? And what about Fuji and Ricoh?
That said, I would personally be okay spending $3-4k on a camera body, but unlikely for a NEX-9. An A-mount camera with a 36×36 square sensor, large tilting EVF, no AA filter, and an AF sensor with tens of cross points and coverage for most of the frame. Unfortunately, Sony seems to have broadly given up on being ambitious with their A-mount cameras.
I think Andrea must be enjoying all the feedback……..
and Sony even more… lol
Keep in mind… The 74% that say they wont buy it, Wont buy it… The 13% who say they will, Wont either… Most people wont do what they say on a subject that costs no money… Much less THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS!…
It must come with a free Sony Alpha A1X at these prices….
I have what I feel are very high end Sony lenses for my a850 body, and have been anticipating a higher resolution body for some time now. I would jump at buying that. I would not jump at buying a high resolution NEX that would be ridiculous to use with an adapter and my large Sony lenses, or that would need a whole new line of great glass for a NEX FF. Please please produce a new, higher resolution FF alpha.
When you’re the only kid on the block with a football, you get to make the rules.
I love the live view of my RX100. When I am working I would like that same freedom and versatility that my Canon’s don’t give me. The canon’s are also to big and heavy. i was thinking that the NEX would change the way I think about photography, give the freedom that the canons don’t.
I have invested to much in my Canon system to start spending money on a new untested system. Now realising the NEX system is going to be around the $3500 for the body plus lenses, I think now I will not buy the NEX7n and go for the 5D3 which I have been putting off buying.
Its a shame because the NEX system could really be great, I guess it will only be an enthusiasts camera, and lets face it there are more of them than pros.
The next year will be interesting viewing.
Now I know I will not own FF nex; 4000$ is way to much for me. With Nex7 costing around 1000$ Nex 9 should be 2000$, 2500$ max
Otherwise I will stick to an APS-C NEX for traveling and compact and a cheap ff DSRL for other stuff where bulk does not bother me
Sorry if this is redundant, I’ve only read ~200 of the 400+ comments. I probably *would* pay between $3-4k for a FF NEX but not right away–and as long as it has the right features.
If the camera only has 24mpx, those need to be amazing pixels to compete. Sony will not have a complete range of lenses at launch and 3rd party compatibility will make or break this camera I think. I would even go farther and say that Sony needs to somehow open up compatibility with the sensor PDAF. Faster AF for 3rd party adapters will sell lots of these cameras.
Personally, improved video performance will also help. I shoot mostly still but I really only make money with my cameras doing video. If this camera could reduce the need for an VG30 or FS100 it will be that much easier to buy. To do that the camera will need to trounce the soft, aliased, moire-heavy images I see from the VG900 and A99. It should also have 1080P XAVC internal (ideally with an option for 4:2:2) and clean HDMI (offer 4K 24p through the HDMI and, again, you’ll help convince me because the camera is future proofed).
I’m not surprised but a bit disappointed by the price. I think at that price point it will be a tough sell consider how many used Leica M’s and M9’s will be floating around and how close to the D600 it will look on paper. Now the M/M9 has its flaws but it is a known entity with a complete system of lenses ranging from affordable (CV) to astronomical (Leica’s own). That makes the FF NEX a hard sell on price alone ESPECIALLY if it performs as poorly as the VG900 with wide angle rangefinder lenses. Vignetting is one thing, smearing and drastic loss of resolution is another. The D600 is also not perfect but it will take more than size and weight to win over many enthusiasts.
Don’t let me discourage you. Please, please release this camera!
Approximately half the cost of the RX1 is the lens. Take that out of the equation and you get a $1400 camera. Making the mount interchangeable = $100 to $200. I’d say it would be wise to release at no more than $1,599 MSRP and the street price will end up under $1,500 shortly after release which would be the sweet sport for the time being. 24MP is more than sufficient, leaving room for an upgrade 1.5 years later.
Samsung, Canon, Nikon et al. will release a full frame mirrorless. If Sony prices themselves near or above 2k than they will price themselves out of the competition and all that R&D will have been for naught (and they will lose out on all those lens & accessories sales). The RX-2 can remain in the $2500 range due to it’s size and premium lens combo.
Sony shouldn’t think about Leica. It’s a specialized camera body with a cult following amongst the wealthy. Sony is to Leica as BMW is to Bentley. It’s a premium brand for the masses, not a super premium brand for the few.
It is sad, but true, Sony will never be able to approach the prestige of Leica. The NEX 9 will be in direct competition with the Leica M series cameras if it approaches the $4,000.00 price point. Given the “Obsolescence Factor” that the Japanese camera manufacturers impose, on themselves and users, it would be nearly impossible for me to choose the Sony product over the Leica product if I were in a position to spend over $4K or $5K on a new camera kit.
If, by chance, Sony were to adopt a position where they did not abandon previous model buyers, ei.g . offer continued significant firmware updates to upgrade existing models, even at additonal cost to owner if necessary, I would be more willing to sink big money into an expensive Sony product.
It will not be long before the $1,300 NEX7 cameras are showing up used for $500 or discounted new for $700.
does anyone think the nex-7n will be available in consumer hands before June? Since the announcement is to be in April.
Replicate the successful APS-C NEX line with FullFrame sensors.
Two to three FullFrame NEX models.
A 24MP FullFrame NEX like the NEX 5 without a viewfinder.
A 32MP FullFrame NEX like the NEX 7 with a viewfinder.
Keep the price reasonable. The FullFrame NEX 7 or 9 should not be above $2,000.00
The FullFrame NEX 5 should not be above $1,500.00.
I would if it had NO AA filter and was 30+ megapixels. It is significantly more convenient to carry around and therefore useful than a DSLR. Just needs better resolution.
In fact I would buy an RX-1 now if it had no AA filter, I would by it yesterday if it had no AA and 30+ megapixels.
Not surprised, never care anyway. I know i can’t afford it right in the beginning, that’s why I bought the Nex 6 and just enjoy it for the next 3 years. I will not spend heavy money on Sony camera system till it matures. Learn it from the A mount system, and the recent change of hot shoe.
$3,000 to $4,000?!?!? That kind of pricing is absolutely insane. Goodbye Sony… hello Canon, Nikon or anything else for that matter.
So will I wonder what your screen name will become… NikonCyberPunk, CanonCyberPunk… lol
I hope you enjoy their mirrorless full-frame cameras. Oh wait a minute…
If NEX-9 is to stand any chance in the FF market, it should have a reasonable price (not more expansive than current FF DSLRs in the market like 5D3), a good selection of lenses available at the beginning, and converters that can fully support Canon and Nikon FF lenses to compensate the disadvantage in lenses.
Only one thing Sony should do… Buy Metabones to get the patent for their speed booster tech…
Speedbooster > FF Nex… And its backwards compatible with the Nex 3/5/7.
– Sony Speedbooster with fast AF
– 35 + 50 G pancake/short FF for the Alpha range.
Nex becomes be all and end all of camera game.
even if it has 50 megapixel i would not buy it
What’s the difference between Sony and a $hit Sandwich???
The $hit Sandwich has bread…
In 2011 I moved from Canon to Sony. I felt that the Alpha line looked solid with excellent cameras and great lenses in all price ranges. I really appreciate the Alpha in body stabilization. The better lenses are awesome. I now own an A99V as well as a NEX7. My wife also has a NEX7. After two years with Sony, I’m concerned that they are chasing digital unicorns. Their development efforts should be divided between the APS-C NEX series, and the Alpha series (to include a reasonably priced state of the art full frame DSLT flagship). I own an A99V (and a NEX7) and feel that while it’s an excellent camera, it’s not state of the art. The sensor size and especially the autofocus system are two areas where Sony could have done much better for the price of the camera. With the NEX series, they are in a great position with their APS-C cameras. They also have the RX series. Have they the resources to develop a full frame NEX9 for a niche market? The camera body is only a part of the solution. They must back the body(ies) with a full complement of lenses. This is the achilles heel of the NEX APS-C series, for which the market should be much larger than that of a full frame NEX. Initially, I was enamored with the idea of a full frame NEX, but now I feel that I’m privy to the news of the next BETAMAX. Great technical development but a loser. If Sony spreads itself too thin it will lose in all of its marketplaces. It already seems to be a day late and a dollar short in its development. Full frame development should improve the Alpha A mount DSLT series and the NEX development should concentrate on beefing up the existing line with a full line of good and high quality lenses. If they do this, then their cameras will have a great reputation and will sell. If they continue with their schizophrenic ever changing strategies, then it won’t be long until their camera division is closed or up for sale. It seems that many of the Minolta/Alpha faithful also are questioning Sony’s strategy and are looking at other manufacturer’s such as the 4/3’s camp. I think that the NEX APS-C line is a POTENTIAL winner, but will wither if not properly nourished.
Who is supposed to pounce on an NEX form camera in the 3-4K price bracket? Retired Doctors and Lawyers? Ok… You’ve just sold a few hundred cameras. Professionals – I don’t think so. Pros invest primarily in lenses for the long haul. Will they trust Sony enough to sell all their gear or use adapters? Either way they will be putting big fast lenses on a tiny body. That will completely destroy the ergonomics of the NEX system. If Sony goes to a bigger body to balance the lenses – why not just maintain the current DSLR form factor? If that’s where they end up, then what exactly is unique selling point of the system?
I have no doubt Sony can solve the technical problems and bring a FF NEX to market but will it sell? Sell in the kind of quantities that will help Sony survive financially? Its hard to imagine how this investment, this camera makes sense in a slowly steadily shrinking world camera market.
One last thing… Sony is a terrific innovator. They have brought us the R-1, the NEX system, the RX-100, and the stunning RX-1. But one of Sony’s problems is following through on innovation. Will there be an RX-200 or an RX-2? Who knows? Will Sony finally figure out how to do firmware updates? who knows? How will Sony treat Pros when their gear fails – like the rest of us? If so – the Pros will NEVER trust them. Sony has a very bad habit of creating the next new thing and having absolutely no idea how to support it.
If it comes out between $2000 – $2500, it will sell well. For $3000 – $4000, it will be a failure. And, to be honest, Sony hasn’t provided a full system for the NEX series yet, so I doubt they will have a sufficient range of lenses for the full frame version either. If they want to do it right, make a new mount, as there is no need for an E-mount, as those lenses do not fit full frame anyways ~ why struggle with the size…make it slightly bigger and cheaper!
More than 400 comments and I haven’t read a single one . . . yet. But here’s my take.
I have an NEX 5N. I can continue to buy an NEX model for my Emount lenses, legacy glass, and portability needs. I’d love an affordable FF NEX to make my main camera, but the price between $3,000 and $4,000 means that I will buy a Canon 6d and keep my NEX stuff for when I need to go small. I want FF, but not when I can get extremely good image quality and a 50/1.2 Canon L lens for the price a FF NEX body alone, potentially. I’d be a fool to pay that much for portability when I already have it. Now, if the FF NEX was around $2,100 and was released with some good lenses (e.g., a fast 35 and 50 prime) then that could entice me. But I am very worried about AF speed (initial locking on speed) because the RX1 let me down and I no longer have an RX1. I just don’t believe Sony will improve enough to entice me even if the price of the FF NEX is cheaper than noted. It has to have better AF.
I’m sorry, but why should it cost that much? When we look back at the a900 compared to the a850, we see that an optical viewfinder (particularly one at 100% coverage) is an added expense. If Nikon can put out the D800 at ~US$2800, why would a mirrorless camera with a similar chip cost *more* than that when the physical machining and manufacturing should cost less? I don’t understand.
No needs for the a FF NEX 9. Sony need to come out a second version of RX1 with built-in view finder, much better auto focus than the current garbage on the RX1(I don’t mind the slow focus, but mt RX1 back focuses a lot!), sell it for the same price as the current RX1.
If Sony ever comes out a NEX9, it needs to be under $2000 for the body, and some serious prime lenses(Not the expensive Zeiss) at the same price point that can complete with Fuji’s primes for the X Pro 1.
I originally bought a NEX 5 as a second body to my DSLR and a couple of Zeiss ZM primes to go with it. The sheer portabiity of the system meant thht I could take it with me litterally everywhere and, because of that, more of my pics soon came from the Sony than from my larger camera. IQ progressed with the 5N, now the 7, and I no longer own a DSLR. All my forum friends would dearly love smaller cameras and lenses. The only reason they still have DSLRs is that they feel that mirrorless does not yet deliver the IQ/shooting experience that they want.
If Sony does that with the NEX 9, the DSLR owners will switch to smaller in droves.
Then comes the issues of lenses. If the sensor means the camera can only handle specially-designed lenses, which is more or less what Sony management are saying, that will crimp the camera’s appeal seriously. If OTOH it can use the reservoir of rangefinder lenses (Leica, Zeiss, Voigtländer), then it will be a hit.
Lastly, price. If the new cam delivers comparable IQ to a similarly-priced DSLR, and a classy shooting experience, such as the RX1, not only will it hurt Leica tremendously, but it should rewrite the rulebook of the photography market.
If you don’t believe this, remember what portability did to audio. Sure the iPod sound quality was junk, but portability was preferred to very high quality in 99,9% of cases. So very high IQ AND portability is a killer combo.
If a FF NEX is introduced costing more than 3000USD, it had better have a LOT of compelling features to get me to switch from Canon FF DSLR. I have a lot of money invested in the current system. So the important question will be, what differentiates a FF NEX from non-mirrorless? Something that neither Canon nor Nikon FF DSLR already have years of product development behind? It’s difficult to see that happening from this point of view.
If, OTOH, Sony took a huge leap and dropped the Android OS onto their FF mirrorless with full WiFi, then they’d have my attention.
What I see is that Sony could help FF DSLR users transition away from Canon/Nikon if they offered a small interchangeable lens FF NEX that undercut the cost of the 6D/D600 cameras. That way people could throw a Sony FF NEX into their bag and not take such a huge hit in transition costs to a new system all at once.
The RX-1 was accepted by a niche target audience, but didn’t completely steal customers from competition. So RX-1 already was stretching the bounds of acceptable pricing. If the the aim of the FF NEX is to compete with other full frame systems, then 3-4000 isn’t going to cut it, if anything … again target a niche market.
Is Sony’s strategy to keep on aiming for these niche markets?
You have to be naive to think that FF will go as cheap as APS in NEX system. Overall FF over APS sized sensor has not so much advantages and a lot of technical difficulties to overcome in compact body/lens system. Difficulties always results in IQ compromises. Lets think about wide angle lenses and sensor corners.
I think price point will be justified by much more people, if sensor will be 36-48Mpix.
I am a bit shocked by the poll. The percentage I believe has been played with by a person(s) clicking more than once. As there is 6000 votes but 500 comments but im sure lots of people didnt comment and only voted. I take that to be more than 13% of people would buy. I wasnt expecting such a high number.
Hahahah…. wait.. hahahahaha…. I took it from Admin, Sorry ;).
Give a break mostly everyone here is speculating things.
Dear SAR Readers,
I had been 4 yrs reading those rumors. I learned one thing rumors is more exciting than Sony reality. Look at a77 for example. There were a very good rumors about it & who were testing said there are other copies w/ different features, but no one knew what will be the final copy of a77.The a77 need a software to solve some problems until writing my comment there is no such thing, NEX-7 too. What about a99 101 AF point. Sony surround it to 19 point all center, many replied it will be not so good it should in all frame before Sony release a99.The same things happened to a77,a99, a58 & NEX7 will be mistakes with this called NEX-9.
Look carefully, Sony didn’t response to our complaining to fix previous models problems. Sony just release a new camera +/- the same previous models to update software it’s easier for Sony to release a new camera body.
For me a FF mirrorless camera with or without an EVF viewfinder and interchangable lenses and I would be sold. 36 Megapixel and I would be in heaven:-))
So sony Nex9 with 36 Megapixel FF , small, with A, and E mount possibility and I as a Pro would change my system. Actually I have a Nikon D800E system and where is the new 36 Megapixel FF Dslr Model ?? I need this pixel size for big enlargements.
I own an M type 240 and would buy the Nex-9 immediately. The can take a lot of leica customers like me especially wit all the defects coming out of the Leica factory.
I’m actually shocked that so many comments were made on this topic. Less than one week ago we were prompted to supply questions to ask a Sony expert during a live online broadcast. Of the HUNDREDS of good questions asked on this website, not a SINGLE ONE was addressed by the completely incompetent Sony rep. Now we’re being asked again to waste our time with comments / suggestions that will ultimately fall upon deaf ears.
It’s quite obvious that Sony has ZERO interest in what we think. This camera will be released regardless – more than likely with the wrong features, priced out of the market, crippled intentionally to protect the sales of their other products, without sufficient lenses / accessories to properly support the platform, etc.
Once the camera does hit the market, it will be neglected support wise – i.e. laughable firmware updates, initial release full of bugs, and will soon be forgotten like the literal piles of other Sony cameras as they rush to make yet another body / platform.
These aren’t speculations, merely observations of how Sony has handled themselves in the past (and I’ve been given no reason to think otherwise). I currently own 5 Sony cameras, digital camcorder, and countless other electronics in my home and vehicles…a trend that has now stopped.
I’m not investing another penny into anything soiled by the Sony brand until they demonstrate that they’ve pulled their heads out of their asses far enough to have at least a tiny glimpse of what photographers require out of their equipment and demonstrate that they will support existing users who are heavily invested in their systems. End of story.
I think Brian has raised some valid points. It’s the lack of support and commitment that Sony has to it’s existing user base that makes me uncomfortable and uncertain about the future of the A-Mount. I will think long and hard investing in any more Sony products and a 3000-4000 pound Nex will certainly never be on my shopping list!
over priced !
I will never buy a Nex-FF to any price without a viewfinder on board (like Nex7)
It has to be cheaper and it has to have a viewfinder.
I am a Leica M9 user but I am interested in a FF Nex from Sony with better ISO and better hybrid viewfinder (similar to the one on Fuji X100). I am willing to pay around US$3-4K for this camera since it would still be far less than the new US$ 7K Leica M (and with better features like video I hope).
until sony demonstrates that it will support its users with frequent firmware updates that fix the many bugs that will undoubtedly be found, OR to support reasonable user requests that improve the product, there is no way i’d risk this kind of money on this. Sony doesn’t even properly support its Alpha line with firmware updates!!! Sony, u can keep the damn thing!
This!
After re-reading Andrea’s initial post I wanted to add that if the wording in point #1 is correct and the NEX-9 matches or exceeds PRO cameras than, yes, it may be worth the $$$. Now, with that said Sony itself bills the A99 as an enthusiast camera. So if the NEX-9 can barely match the A99 and yet costs more and is released a year later … poor sales. If the camera can go toe-to-toe with the 1DX or D4–at 24mpx–it is absolutely worthwhile and will eventually sell very well despite some initial sticker shock. The NEX-7 camera interface/size has proven to be a winner, with some further refinement and tweaking it will appeal to the pros, artists, and advanced/wealthy amateurs who are pay for the best when there is a solid return on investment.
I am sorry if this is duplicated but I could not find my comment (there are quite a few!). I would be very tempted by the new FF NEX if it cost $3,000 but probably would not pay $4,000. I am an amateur that did pay $5,000 for the Nikon D3 when it first came out (I really wanted full frame) but camera values depreciate so much that I vowed never again to spend so much on a camera. Now I have a Nikon D600 which I do plan on keeping but I love the size of the NEX cameras. I also love to be able to use all different lenses with adapters. I have the NEX-5N (which is a great camera) and manual m-mount Zeiss, Takumar etc. lenses. Ever since I started using the 5N, I have been wanting this to be in full frame. I would love the new NEX to be 24 MP. I would rather the low-light sensitivity and do not want huge file sizes.
Why Sony doesn’t understand the camera everyone is waiting for is a simple and light FF camera?
It doesn’t have to be fast nor exotic.
I do not think Sony needs yet another system. It will take years and years before there are enough lenses for this new system. It will also alienate customers that have already bought into the expensive Alpha-mount lenses (like the Zeiss lenses).
Keep the NEX-series on APS-C and make more lenses/accessories for it. Find a way to make an Alpha-mount NEX-sized camera with a full frame sensor. This solves the whole issue of dealing with full frame lenses. Why make a new range when you already have one? Perhaps even start developing smaller full frame lenses for the Alpha mount.
I am thinking that there must be some technology that can allow for a shorter distance from the Alpha-mount lens to the camera sensor. I am thinking some kind of glass element that can be a part of the camera that will shift the focus distance, allowing the camera to be smaller and without a translucent mirror.
This is a small concern with the NEX line. The original battery, its what 1080mAh. I’m sure NEX-7 eats up batteries faster than 3 and 5. All everybody does is just buy another battery, but what if the FF NEX-9 eats batteries 2X faster. Its going to suck to change batteries 3X or more(just photos) a day. Start video recording and you’ll need 5+ batteries to get you though the day.
lets see…
NEX-7 approx. Power consumption: 1.5W(APS-C) +EVF(2359k) Battery: InfoLITHIUM® NP-FW50 (7.2V) Capacity: 7.7Wh (1080mAh)
EVF(2359k) default brightness approx. Power consumption: 0.2W (tested, the EVF consumes more power than the screen)
RX1. approx. Power consumption: 2.0W ( FF ) no-EVF Battery: NP-BX1 Volts : 3.6V Capacity: 4.5Wh (1240mAh)
NEX-7n approx. Power consumption: 1.7-1.8W(New APS-C) +EVF(3800k) Battery: InfoLITHIUM® NP-FW50 (1080mAh)
NEX-9 approx. Power consumption: 2.3-2.4W ( FF ) +EVF(3800k or more) Battery: InfoLITHIUM® NP-FW50 (1080mAh)
NP-FW50 use of hours
NEX-7 100% charge, 25% (33% heavy use with built in flash) per hour =4-3.3hrs non-stop use. Photos only.
NEX-7n 100% charge, 0.2W more power consumption ?hrs
NEX-9 100% charge, 0.8-0.9W more power consumption ?hrs
Sony please make a 2160mAh NEX cameras if possible. (don’t forget that the battery is draining 24/7, charging the internally battery to save all your settings)
PIXEL POWER !!!
Sony hear you, but they don’t care!
MORE PIXEL POWER !!!
Will there be a childish menu system? (please learn from Ricoh GXR/GRD)
Will firmware fixes be released willingly? (please learn from Fuji)
Will there be firmware feature enhancements for product maturity (please learn from Ricoh)
Will there be an AA filter? (please learn from Fuji)
Will the controls suit a pro or semi-pro? (please learn from Fuji / Contax)
Can it use existing zeiss / leica quality glasses or do we have to buy into a new unproven lens system?
Can a lens adapter be provided to suit a majority of lenses out there? (please learn from Metabones)
Will it have the cons of rx1 stated on web reviews? (please learn from your past mistakes)
Yes, I would buy it, at 4000, If:
Low noise
Better IQ than a99
Very terrible autofocus issue resolved
Accepts a lenses without loss of max aperture
Must launch with at least one truely great lens:
Hologon would be by far the obvious choice
Super slow motion, like in “the art of flight” , meaning 1000 frames per second at full hd, I would gladly pay another 1000 for the needed storage device
4k recording
Pro layout. Meaning buttons and dials, no menu crap! At least as many as a99
The fact that I would absolutely by the camera as specified above, should not be taken to mean at I am not disappointed by Sony. Allot has been said, let me ad what bothers me most:
1 the autofocus issue: seen on a57, a77 and by others also on a99. The camera will focus, and in movie mode keep focus, on things that are it in center, and not human, while subject is right and large in center. Happens only every so often, but very very fristrarpting when it does.
More general:
We need pro level stuff. Be it a d4 killer, or lenses, something the shows Sony is not the poor mans Nikon.
I have been with Minolta since my da got the 7000 back in 80s.
But I can never recommend a person start into this system. Sony has nothing that canikon does not have, but they have so much that we do not.
A ff no mirror camera is the future, this is clear from a technical reality, but if you want us to follow there prove to us we get system that has amazing tools in it, not just another pure amateur line.
Hence my list of technical top of the hill features and the hologon.
Contax sold allot of the g2, they new the hologon is perfect to show the advantage of not having a mirror box.
And do it fast, I for one am getting a d800 instead of he a99.
Apologies: I mean “does NOT fochs on subject in center”, of course, damn iPad!
User opinion to the Sony statement:
1. Sony, you may be dreaming, but you’re there all by yourself. If you can’t even match the sales of enthusiast fullframe DSLRs from Canon and Nikon with your newest A99, what makes you think you can now surpass their pro fullframes?
2. Sony only cares about profit. The main concern of Sony is wether we can accept their asking price. If not, then why not ask us about the specs of the camera that we want for us$3000-4000?
Sony, shame on you!
Not sure why the NEX-9 would be more expensive when the lens supposedly accounts for 1/3 to 1/2 the cost of the RX1. No lens with the NEX-9. Yes, adding in things like a 3.2mp EVF from the NEX-7n and I could see it being priced about the same as the RX1 but in the $3000 to $4000 range? No way.
I can see lots of potential tech advances, such as sensor anti-shake and uncompressed 4K video support, being sufficient to justify a $3000+ price for pros, but a 24MP FF NEX at $3000+ is going to be a niche product. No doubt a lot of effort is being put into things like fast autofocus to make this the “one camera that would rule them all,” but that’s largely playing into the “compete with CaNikon” mindset.
I think the sensel pitch of a 24MP APS-C is roughly getting all that most 135-format lenses have to offer, and I’d encourage keeping that pitch in the FF sensor — around 54-56MP FF. Making just that change to a NEX-7 at a roughly $2000 price point would result in a camera that would be compelling for pro work that had been using medium format, as well as leading many CaNikoners to jump ship just to get better IQ out of their CaNikon lenses. It would be seen largely as the serious “digital film back” for pro lenses… which is a large part of how NEX is contemplated by pros now. You can and will tack the other features on later models….
If this Nex is to cost 3-5000 it better have 36 MP. Make also a budget version (6D / D600 price range) with 24 MP.
what? 24mp more expensive than a nikon d800? doesn’t make a lot of sense if you ask me. make it 36mp, or 40mp same price range as a d800 that’s what it has to be. so I guess I’ll go with a nex7n and a speedbooster.
1. Sony NEX cameras seem to be a hit (but I need numbers), that´s a perception that one “feels” after reading reviews,even from pros.
2. Sony NEX cameras are exciting for several kind of users, but there are pros and people semi-pro that love the following features: small package, high image quality, efficient performance (fast and good AF mainly).
3. The size and weight are becoming in specifications very-very important to many users, for “pros” and “the others”. For pros it means low intrusion, discretion and comfort when one works outside long periods of time; for “the others” is an “echo” of the tendency marked by the market of tablets, laptops, etc.
4. Among pros, the weakness of NEX system are the lenses and some inferiority in high ISOS respect DSLR.
5. Another weak points of NEX system arise from an AF that should be better and many features about comfort: ergonomic buttons (yes, NEX 7 shows a great work in this aspect) more options about bracketing, etc.
So, I was very close to switch from Canon to Sony when appeared the NEX 7, and when appeared the Oly OM DEM 5, and when appeared the Fuji X Pro 1, etc. But I am waiting maybe the following generation: better IQ, better AF, better lenses system (here Fuji is working hard) and those features I own with my DSLR ff.
I could consider pay a proportional price to those features: I understand that -if it´s possible building that gear- I have to pay a premium for a camera that works like a DSLR but in a very-very meaningful smaller and lighter body.
I decided not to wait for the NEX7 Replacement when I heard the NEX FF would definitely arrive in 2014, I decided to keep using my DSLR system for a while longer. But it seems SONY wants to stretch its NEX9 to $4,000, and I just think most of us want a NEX FF body under $3,000. The current survey numbers reflect this. Sony refers to the $2,800 RX1 with its 2.0 Zeiss lens. True no EVF, which will be a must for the NEX9. SONY has a real market for this new FF, but it needs to remedy previous NEX drawbacks. SONY should get this FF right with an attractive price point, image stabilization, a fast NEX6 Hybrid type AF, hopefully, some significant degree of water resistance, and some FF compatible E Zeiss glass at less than $1,500 for primes. We’re waiting SONY!
I like NEX9FF able to use with leica M lens without adapter.
What I want to see is a camcorder like the cx series with a full frame sensor. Thevg900 has a great sensor but misses many features found in cx camcorders like smooth slow record, balanced optical steady shot, 10 times optical zoom. I don’t want to lose these great features when I get a better sensor. Slow motion/high frame is particularly important
I would like NEX9FF able to use with leica R(!) lenses with(!) adapter, similar to Leica M…
Full frame w/ w/a & 90mm would be very desirable in a small package. Must have build quality though.
My wishlist:
> 24 Mp
Easy focus peaking for manual Leica R lenses.
Faster than 1/4000 plus Bulb with remote & delay timers
Low ISO of 50 or 100.
High ISO clean enough to use > 12,000.
Useable Jpegs of good colour.
When Sony releases the FF NEX9 for $3000 – I will run out to my nearest Sony store the morning of the release and wait in line to show them the Nikon 800e I bought the night before.
If sony is really serious in competing against Canon and Nikon in the DSLR arena, then they should deliver a camera like this:
1. Full Frame.
2. 40 Mpix
3. ISO 50-25000
4. 64 Focusing Points with at least 10 cross-type
5. 15 FPS (it has to be blazing, scorching fast for sports)
6. Ultrafast accurate focusing.
7. A 50mm 1.2, 85 mm 1.2, 35 mm 1.4, 14mm 2.8, 28-300mm 5.5 lenses, preferably coming from Zeiss.
8. Magnesium body. No plastic feel at all.
9. Hybrid VF (optical for 100% accuaracy + digital info (E.C, ISO, etc)
All in a package as big as a NEX 7.
In that way, I will sell my Leica M9-P, My Canon EOS 1DX and I’ll call it even steven. Otherwise, let others play along with subpar cameras.
righto mate!!! how much would you price that expert ?
I’m looking for an alternative to the Leica M. I love Zeiss, and would consider their autofocus lenses for this body as long as it took my Leica lenses. I need a lighter more portable discreet body alternative to Leica and Hasselblad. I don’t know about the market share, but a NEX 9 would make a very bold statement to the Leica world as much as to Canon and Nikon. A flagship s that; a bold statement to capable possibility. No one has challenged Leica. Sony could. Will they?
I can’t belive that by creating the D800, which is a really great camera, Nikon has unwittingly reopened the old sillyness about pixels…
Not every friggin’ camera has to challenge MF, for god’s sake! You do realize, I hope, that the D800 is slow as hell in processing images (4ips). It’s made for studio work – why the heck would you need a Nex size for studio work?
On the other hand, cameras such as the D4 are used for reporting. They have about 25 Mpx give or take, which is more than enough unless you want to print your masterpieces fresco-size. They have great AF but more importantly great low-light capabilities. And yes, they’re also very quick in every department. And they’d benefit from a small form factor much more than any other camera.
That’s the kind of camera I’d like the Nex 9 to be – a fair contender to the 1Dx or the D4 (keeping in mind that it cannot possibly be as quick due to battery limitations).
And yeah, I want great lenses too!
$4k is too much. $2k is more realistic.
Hi! Nex9FF is worthy at $5000.00 for body. I wish Nex9FF able to work with Leica M lenses without adapter and its battery able to use at least for 72 hrs maximum. I have at least 250 friends photography no comment about price of Nex9FF but thru me, my photography friends in US and overseas are ready to purchase Nex9FF at $5000.00 acceptable (no question about it). We are oriental entry level semi-amateur photographers used cash to purchase cameras never used credit card to purchase cameras. The reason I said that because I (we) want to purchase Leica M and Leica X Vario at one store in NY, they ask for credit card but all of us have no credit card able to reach an amount of $10,000.00. I, personally write an email to that store (big name) with stated that “please notify me when Leica M or Leica X Vario released” I (we) will make payment by wire transfer or bank cashier check. But, this store didn’t reply my group email. They don’t care customers why should I (we care). So, I (we) decide to stop to purchase Leica X Vario and wait only for Leica M because all of us invested leica M lenses; and now I (we)wait for NEX9FF release in market. I (we) agree to pay any price of NEX9FF with no comment. I (we) repeat the NEX9FF worthy at $5,000.00. Happy waiting for NEX9FF. How about you?
Hi mate
Love to know one particular feature, amongst others obviously but love to know if you’ve been told if the next NEX will have any efficient WiFi capabilities, without wire tethering, would be awesome to eliminate the eye-fi card which is currently the only way to wirelessly transmit images.
Regards
Tim
Hello, thank for sharing info. Timothy, do you have specification of NEX9FF and new NEX9FF lenses series?, if you have this information please tell more about it for NEX9FF fan understand including me and all my colleagues affiliate camera clubs member not only in US but in five continental too. About my group we are always used high-end cameras and lenses, of course $$$ involved but we don’t mind about this, we only care the cameras and lenses what we like most. I have plan to switch from heavy big cameras/lenses to light small cameras/lenses such as Leica M and NEX for better carrying for whole my group. I,(We) are not professional photographers or use cameras to make money for living. I,(We) are beginner only novice-level in photography and only take picture for fun. In the beginning, we choose Leica M240 and Leica X Vario (for back up), but now all of us and all my colleagues overseas changed the mind that we should used Leica M240 and NEX9FF with series lenses of M and NEX9FF. I feel that you are professional photographer and have much knowledge in photography/camera, if you have any article about photography in (compact)small camera/lens ONLY for teaching/sharing to beginners like us for learning please feel free donate to us if you wish we will put your article into our website: http://www.icsphoto.us. I am not advertise for Leica M240 and NEX9FF but these two (2) small cameras the whole my clubs in domestic/overseas like most and will ready purchase it at any time. Sorry for Big Store in NY have no changed for our club members deal with.
Best regards,
Tony Le
“Sony aims to create a High End Professional system that can match and if possible surpass the performance of PRO DSLR”
Can it focus faster than a combo of say, 1dx with a 800mm lens, shooting a running cheetah? Viewing thu the DSLR is instant information we’ll capture, can EVF be the same?