Her are a bunch of news from competitors that are particularly interesting for us:
First: The Leica X2 (Click here) uses the Sony 16.2 Megapixel sensor (same of the A57) Second: Canon could announce their NEX system competition in June (via CanonWatch).
But it is the Third news that really matters most. Nikonrumors posted the possible D600 specs and it really sounds like it will indeed share the same 24 Megapixel Sony sensor. Both, the Nikon D600 and A99 will be announced in late August/early September. The only difference is that Nikon has some own proprietary tweaks on it. From the specs we know the Sony will have more than double the frame rate of the D600 (10 or 12 fps versus 5fps) and more than double the AF points (rumored 101 versus 39 focus points). The big deal with the Nikon is that it is rumored to cost less than $2.000. I hope at that point that the A99 will also stay in the same price league. If Sony shares the sensor with Nikon but keeps the price above the Nikon than the SLT technology might not be enough to justify the price difference. I certainly hope the D600 rumor is correct because it means we can hope the A99 will be priced damn low!!!
190 Responses
Are you sure with that 100+ AF-Sensors? It’s really hard to believe, like the ISO 100.000 for the A77
agree… hard to believe…
I’ve heard that it is a variant of the 51-point AF sensor used in some of Nikon’s DSLRs, where with some sort of technicality the sensors count double. I’m not sure how they’ll get away with that though.
http://matthewdurrphotography.wordpress.com
It’s probably the Nikon 51 double-cross point AF “tuned” by the Sony marketing department.
51 double-cross points = 51×2 AF points = “100+ point AF sensor”
Just like the 2.4 million “dot” EVF (1024x768xRGB).
51 is still more than what the D800 has. So I would not complain.
thats not how a af-sensor works, if you speak german take a look here:
http://www.dslr-forum.de/showthread.php?t=979864
indeed it’s noway close to possible such a thing..
Was he specifically referencing the A77 when he mentioned that future bodies would be capable of ISO in the hundreds of thousands? Maybe he was alluding to something further in the future?
I don’t know, but increasing the 5N’s noise performance by 2-3 stops on a FF equivalent sensor would be wonderful for me, as I don’t always have the fastest lenses (e.i. 70-300 G)
Leica X2 has the same sensor as the NEX-F3- good for Sony! 🙂
On the D600 at <$2000 price range, yup Sony watch out! I know a few here would say that these are different cameras, blah blah. Does not matter when you are speaking with your wallet.
Also, Sony should slash the the prices of their lenses to lower than the price hike levels.
The Nikon rumor sites also have no in-camera focus motor, so that 10+ year old lenses won’t AF with it.
The screw driver focus lenses (any system) are not compatible with the cameras of 2012 with >5f/s possibilities. No big deal. Besides, Nikon (Sony, etc as well) should have obsoleted that class of AF lenses a long time ago!
Nikon’s best Portrait Lens, the $1.389.95 http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/113487-USA/Nikon_1935_Telephoto_AF_DC_Nikkor.html 135mm f/2.0D DC is a screw drive lens.
As is the SAL-135F18CZ and other old Minolta/Sony lenses
That (and the 105 DC) should been a fully manual focus lens, IMO. The defocus has to be done manually after the focus is set.
+1
“Leica X2 has the same sensor as the NEX-F3- good for Sony!”
Good for Leica. They should use CMOS instead of CCD, and a Sony sensor is a very good start.
So that rumor about exclusivity was wrong?
We thought that Nikon get the 36mp sensor now, with the agreement that Sony don’t release it until next year.
But now Nikon is going to use the 24mp sensor before Sony.
So Nikon wins on both counts, since both of their cameras will probably be better, and cheaper. The d800 is underpriced compared to the 5d3. And I realistically can’t see the a99 competing.
I do not endorse this message.
Me not indoors massage.
If D600 lists at 80% of D700’s price, it will be at ~$1300. With the big pentaprism, etc, I don’t know where the half-of-that price comes from. That DOES set the bar for A99 at ~$1700 IF Sony’s camera has better AF and can sell the video integration as a value-add.
Sony Sensor Fab is a different division of Sony cameras.
They have profit margins that they want to hit.
Which of these 2 companies do you think will sell more sensors for them (SONY or NIKON)?
That is probably why Nikon is getting the sensors first.
Seems to me the most important factor is who designed the sensor and who drives the development and production – D800 36mp as currently top FF sensor on the market is probably designed by Nikon and Sony is more likely “just manufacturer”, which without Nikon might not be even motivated to produce such sensor given it’s high end DSLR sales – hence the Nikon exclusivity for one year or so, it’s more or less Nikon’s chip.
The 24mp FF is much more “common” today, could be used in more DSLRs and is not state of the art, also the usual (1EV) iteration from older D3X/A900 sensor will suffice. So here the Sony could be more in control, it’s their sensor like many more others and it will sell a lot in more than one product.
Then there’s the issue of “Nikon tweaks”, which seems to me Andrea here tends to underestimate hoping Sony will keep up with Nikon with the “same Sony produced sensor” processing 🙂 well we’ll see with 24/36mp, but it’s clear to me Nikon always gets maximum from the given sensor, Sony still lacks a bit I think..
“the SLT technology might not be enough to justify the price difference” – Last time I was checking the SLT technology for most of people was viewed as an obstacle, certainly not something to justify purchase / spend more money on a camera.
Anyway: Andrea, does it mean that after all Sony Semiconductors doesn’t give any exclusivity period to Sony Imaging, while it DOES give one to Nikon for it’s 36 MPx sensor?
Looks like Sony wants to blow itself up from the inside.
Why do you think the A99 will have double the FPS than the D600? Or PDAF in video isntead of CDAF?
The SLT mirror per se may be regarded as an obstacle, but it certainly enables other features that make the camera more attractive.
Some of you keep wanting to set the value of SLT at ZERO. That isn’t what Sony believes. You have heard (or ignored) the arguments for SLT and still value it at Zero.
There is ZERO point in repeating that discussion. It is simply a disparagement of Sony’s intended direction.
The could be troll-worthy on this site.
It doesn’t matter what Sony believes, it matters what their potential customer base believes, and that much remains to be seen.
There are certainly people with strong feelings either way on the matter, but to have a commercially successful product they need to sell to more than just the small group of people getting into heated discussions about it on the internet.
+1
i just don’t know how you can control/use more than 100 af-points.. my cam has 3 – and this is great^^ maybe 9 for the corners.. for all the other points i would need an automatic.. (and lose control)
could sony’s new 16mp sensor be better in some aspects than their 24mp? –> nikon needs a sensor for their upcoming d7100..
There’s always zone autofocus which can be found on an a77 if you’ve ever used one…
a77 has 19 points.. and not 101^^ a77’s are arranged like mine.
You didnt get my point.. if you are using zone AF you would only use just shift the focusing left,centre,right. but maybe with the a99 you could do more by selecting the zones you want… or big or small zones…full customizable to fully utilise all AF points..now that would be amazing..
I would love to see something like an option to enable only selected AF points for the Local AF. E.g. Only center, very right and very left. 🙂
I sure hope the new Sony FF will be less than $2k!!! Use the profits from selling the sensors to keep the Sony DSLR cost low Sony!!! At least give us a discount because of it! haha not likely but I can dream right?
It doesn’t work like that. They can equally well use that money to fill-in black hole which is Sony’s television market presence. Sony Digital Imaging can’t just take money from Semiconductors division just like that to keep cameras price down.
DI needs to earn money for itself. Getting sensors for low price is an advantage of being part of corporation but it doesn’t mean that if Semiconductors make money – DI can start selling cameras below profits margin.
Unless the remaining TV-division costs outstrip their income, there is no reason to worry about its impact on the new Sony.
They are NOT committed to having the same top-line for revenues. They ARE committed to having positive bottom-line for profits.
They need to have a positive profit-number quickly because they showed a very large loss for the previous quarters.
Ain’t gonna happen. The rumored $1,500.00 Nikon D600 will be a FF D3100. For $1,500.00 that’s all you can expect.
I Sony builds a FF a77, the cost has to more than $1,500.00. Economics 101; “If wishes were horses, than beggars would ride.”
No. Nikon D600 will be based on a D7000 body.
The D7000 body has the focus motor, the D3100 and D5100 do not. If the D600 doesn’t have a focus motor, than it can’t be based on a D7000.
Nothing wrong with the idea of a low cost FF Nikon, just don’t expect it to be a D800 with a 24Mp sensor, or a FF D7000.
This FF without a focus motor will force buyers to use the expensive AF-S G lenses, instead of the lower cost D lenses. The AF NIKKOR 50mm f/1.8D sells for $135.00 and the AF-S NIKKOR 50mm f/1.8G sells for $220.00. The AF Zoom-NIKKOR 80-200mm f/2.8D ED sells for $1,225.00 and the AF-S NIKKOR 70-200mm f/2.8G ED VR II sells for $2,400.00. So it looks like Nikon will make a lot of money from selling lenses 😉
First rumors about D7000 also suggested body without AF motor. I have info since November last year that Nikon will launch FF body similar to D7000 in late 2012 or early 2013. Specificiations like optioanal battery grip or 39pt AF sytem ot 2 SD card slot suggest that body format will be similar to D7000.
There’s nothing wrong per se with a company making a low-end full frame camera. A market exists, and Nikon can still make extra profits off lenses/flashes, etc.
The problem for Sony is that they don’t have a higher priced offering, so if their camera is viewed by the market as being a comparable model to the Nikon (justifiably or otherwise) they’ll be forced to either lose margin or sales. We’ll see how we’ll Sony ripostes, but it looks like Nikon has cleverly boxed them into a corner at this point.
I was hoping the A9x would be on par with the D800 🙁
Or maybe this will be an A85 with 24 MP, and another Sony FF coming next year with 36 MP as an A95 ?
PS: I don’t think they should use the name A99 now. It doesn’t allow for future ‘upgrade’ in the model name. (like A35 -> A37)
They can always name it Sony Alpha 100 v.2
😛
or… A999 than A9999 than A99999 alike the Piranha 3D got sequel called 3DD.
I read they are not using Sony for this sensor, they are Aptina Imaging who build the sensors for th Nikon 1 CSC cameras.
good logic ^ since Admin did mentioned more than 1 or even 2 FF bodies.
as much as i like using PDAF in video for chasing toddler, if the lower price Sony FF cost >$2000, i might go with the D600.
also considering Sony lens price just got a huge bump… seriously don’t know what Sony is trying to do to gain market share
Nikon lenses are not inexpensive. Comparable lenses have comparable prices.
Except the 500/4, where the delta is thousands of dollars.
In the past Nikon has always understated their prices and Sony over state their prices. The Sony price is what you pay in the Sony Style/Website not what is the street price.
In the end i would say the street price will be about the same.
So the Minolta/Sony 9-series that was once reserved for the best the company could do is now being positioned equal to Nikon’s third from the top?
With that said the new Sony full frame still could be the finest FF camera ever with the EVF and features like peeking and a better value that anything Canon of Nikon currently makes.
The recent posts surrounding the so called a99 have been to greatly lower expectations over the product. So hopefully it turns out to be an 8-series and not a 9-series class of camera.
I’m reserving judgment till I read an official announcement from Sony before I decide where I’m going to invest my money in for the tools of the trade, but more-and-more I don’t have a good feeling about this, for me at least and for my photography.
I’m a Sony fanboy, and I believe that the OVF and a mirror flopping up and down is the past and mirrorless and EVF’s are the future, but there is something wrong going on at Sony and this Something has been going on for at least three maybe four years now…………
Right now I’m almost grateful that Sony isn’t luring me into purchasing new high-end (expensive) lenses as this would serve only to dig me into an even deeper hole financially that I am with several A-Mount bodies and ten Zeiss, G, Sony and Minolta lenses.
For me its a system and not a just camera and if I had to move right now I don’t know who I would go with, the Canon MKIII of the Nikon D800, although I think Canon has a slight edge in the lenses for me with the new 24-70/f2.8 (not stabilized) and the 50/f1.2 and 85/f1.2 and a wonderful 70-200/f2.8 I like what I have read about the Nikon D800.
I still believe that Sony could make a better camera than the Canon MKIII or the Nikon D800 and make lenses using Zeiss that are the equal to anyone……………the question is why don’t they?
Sony NEVER had $8000 still-cameras like Nikon and Canon have. If they intend on selling $15K lenses (500 f/4), then they really do need a $2K-worthy camera. Their new NEX videocam is over $4K.
The A900 was the comparable model to Canon’s third-best model (5Dmk2), so that isn’t really an issue unless you expect Sony to march upmarket. What matters most is how it compares in terms of image quality, and the A900 wasn’t much behind the D3X is that regard.
Here we are talking about full-frames that we hope are under $2000 and that Leica is priced at $2000. What a joke.
They got a long way to go before matching canikon lenses in quality and quantity, i’m sure they will in time. I’ve said for a few years that the tables will turn in the next 10-15 yrs. I predict the big three in interchangeable lens camera market will be Sony, Samsung and Fuji. Bye bye Nikon Canon.
I don’t think Canon and Nikon are going away soon. And I don’t want them to. Healthy competition is good – we all get better equipment at lower prices.
Sony has some truly great lenses in their lineup. The 35mm and 85mm Easy Choice lenses are phenomenal values. The 70-400G is fantastic. The 50mm E mount lens and the Zeiss primes are great. And the 18-200mm E mount zoom if wonderful (even with the NEX-7).
We need more lenses, that is true. We also need more Sony shooters. Hopefully, their product mix will be more full featured in the future.
And a sub 2k USD A99 would be most welcome.
@Robert
You sir are an idiot!
Nikon as Canon go bye bye.
You’ll be long gone before those companies, an no one will remember your awful photography.
Insecurity breeds stupidity.
Sony is for ameruers, Nikon & Canon are for enthusiast and pros.
lack of knowledge gives a birth to stupid comments.
And you Sky Walker can we see your cat pics at iso 6400.
Nikon will always rule Sony.
Suck it up boys
I got used to shoot at base ISOs. High ISO numbers don’t excite me mate. Grow up.
I’m actually a Nikon user myself so nothing to do with insecurity, but speaking of which, your the Canikon fanboy hanging around Sony sites trolling and as for stupidity your calling my photography awful without even seeing it. By saying bye bye i mean out of the top 3 not goodbye forever. Nikon don’t even make sensors and Canon are about 5yrs behind Sony and Fuji in Development.
@sky walker
Grow up?? Look at your posts. Plus I’ll don’t call me mate, I would friend a douche like you. Enjoy your pathetic cat pics.
@robert
I also own Sony meathead. But I’m stupid enough to say Nikon and canon will go out of business over Sony line up of soccer mom cams.
Meatheads rejoice!
“Nikon don’t even make sensors” – well – neither do Apple make smartphones…… 🙂
Most big manufacturers use suppliers…
Obviously Nikon has a sensor competense that Sony lacks. Sony manufactures what customers define. Being internal or external.
@Click
“idiot” “meathead” “douche”
You have the same writing style as our old troll friend MasterControl/MCP forget the others.
end of line
Still haven’t changed your meds i see.
I don’t know mcp but he sounds like he has def figured out the group here.
Can we please see everyones amazing bookshelf pics??
That’s what I thought.
It’s the soccer mom bully group with their a55’s and plastic lenses.
Haha. Nikon plus 1000000, Sony minus 100000000000
“Nikon & Canon are for enthusiast and pros” and wankers obviously.
Leica is not is the same category as Sony or Nikon, just as Ferrari and Maserati are not in the same class as Chevy, Ford or Toyota.
People will always pay more for a Leica, but they get more. The level of personal service for Leica owners outshines anyone else’s.
You should learn to read, nowhere do i say they are going out of business.
Your a douchebag!
Your Photography prob sucks like your posts
Perhaps you’d like to grace us your own photography so we can learn from a real master?
You do actually go out and take real photographs rather than spending all day in your mother’s basement insulting people on the internet of whom you know nothing about over things you have no evidence for, oui?
I’m not in my moms house. Im leaving your house now kissing your wife goodbye.
You wouldn’t appreciate my work, it’s not shot at iso 6400 and there are no cats or bookshelves in them.
Your eyes wouldn’t know art if it smacked you in the face.
Hence why you post stupid crap about Nikon & Canon.
Duh, stupid is as stupid does.
Oh, so you’re not going to indulge us with your virtuosic puissance of exposure and composition? How disheartening.
Leica M are more like a Morgan than a Ferrari pr Maserati
Really???
I remember when Sony got into DSLR sales.
They made the prediction that they would garner 10% market share within the year.
they also predicted that they would topple Nikon in 2 to 3 years and be a strong second in the industry for DSLR’s.
Both have not happened, Sony remains firmly at between 4 to 7% in DSLR market share.
Just hope that Sony does not decide to do what they have done many times in the past with different products, abandon the market and leave their customers hanging…
according to http://www.sonya99.net/ the A99 will also have double faster flash synchronization (1/500 vs. 1/250 of D600).
this site brings quite a lot of specs of the A99, part of them are quite interesting, part of them are must be simply wrong, like the 36.9 MP sensor. Andrea can you check their source of information on this site, whether it’s reliable?
do not visit that site
It’s not an information page. It’s the $$$ feeder made by kind spammers.
If you know history – similar site existed for A77. They earn money on adverts while providing no value – all the info out there is copy&paste from other sites (SAR including) with very little to none actual value by itself. These sites get abandoned as soon as the AdWords profits margins go down.
Don’t think any info out there is more reliable than stuff posted on open internet forums (cause that’s one of the sources from where they copy stuff).
oh didn’t know that… pity, there are partly such great specs posted 🙁
I hope here will be some informative leaks about A99 soon. Andrea, I think it’s the right time to press that secret red “spy”-button on your control panel 🙂 (oh, hell if it could be just so easy)
The weirdest thing (for me) about the D600’s specs is the lack of in-body AF motor.
It seems it’ll be a D5100 on steroids.
Hope that Sony doesn’t go THAT low.
No in body motor for a full frame cameras? What would people do with all those legacy Nikkor lenses. I guess buy the more upscale D800 camera.
Nikon only used screw drive for a relatively short period (the AF-I lenses came out less than a decade after the first AF lenses), so have more flexibility to do that than Sony and Pentax.
If Nikon put a FF sensor in a cardboard camera @$500 it should still have an AF motor.
“I certainly hope the D600 rumor is correct because it means we can hope the A99 will be priced damn low!!!”
Previous high hopes that the A77 and A65 would be priced damn low did not pan out, indeed both cameras were priced substantially higher than had been expected/speculated here. I look forward to the announcement of both the Nikon D600 and the Sony full frame SLT and will decide how to proceed.
“It seems it’ll be a D5100 on steroids.”
If the D600 turns out to be a D5100 on steroids that will be fine by me. I am very happy with my D5100 and find the side mounted swivel screen to be much more useful than Sony’s bottom mounted screens. . .
The A65 is still price competitive (roughly speaking) with the D5100. And the A77 is price competitive with the D7000, roughly speaking. Over time, prices drift downward but you do get quite a bit of capability with these two cameras.
Wow, where are you looking? The D7000 can be had for some 930 EUR in euroland and the A77 costs 1199 EUR or more. The D5100 costs less than 500 EUR for body only while the A65 body costs way above 800 EUR. Even the A57 at 700 EUR is way more expensive than the D5100. Nikon rules with their prices, way lower than the Sony cameras. Way way lower
I’m in the U.S. so our prices are markedly different than yours. As I said, the prices will go down eventually. The A65 and A57, to me at least, are cameras that I would prefer to own over the 5100. To each his own as choice is good.
Hm… weird.
I just checked UK prices:
D7000 body – 880 GBP
A77 body – 790 GBP
A friend of my bought A77 just recently for little bit over 1200 GBP with 2.8/16-50 so he spent more-or-less 800 GBP for the body alone making it still noticeably better than D7000.
Nikon in UK has biger prices than in continent. In Germany Sony A77 is 1150 EUR and Nikon D7000 is 915 EUR.
Nothing wrong with the D5100 per se, mind you.
I myself have recommended the D5100 few times to friends who want a beginner camera but with more juice than the D3100.
(when I can’t convince them to get a Sony. LOL :D)
It’s just that, for a FF camera, peole would expect certain characteristics like AF in-body motor :p
But I understand Nikon’s decision to drop it (if they actually do. We’re talking about rumours here) if the main idea is to keep the price really low (for a FF camera).
Then the market will decide whether it was a good idea or not 🙂
Drop the AF motor that is probably $50 but they include GPS/time lapse/HDR?
Not trying to point blame anywhere… but has anyone noticed that the Alpha mount has lost steam since Sony created the E mount?
I’m not saying that A is worse than the E, I have spend literally thousands on my Alphas, but Sony has clearly been splitting it’s much needed R&D money that otherwise would have went into further refining the A-mount into creating the E-mount. (Which has obviously paid off in the E’s good sales numbers)
On the down side… Canikon obviously hasn’t spent anything close to Sony’s investment in a mirror-less camera system, and it shows in their advancements (and cost/value ratio) of their new cameras.
I agree with a recent poster that Sony should split the product lines into two distinct categories. E-mount for entry level to prosumer cams. A-mount for Semi-Pro and Professional cams. This would help prevent cannibalism of the product lines.
Whole Sony imaging division have lost steam since the E mount. They apparently cannot focus on developing both mounts at a time.
Just look at NEX and compare it with NX system that got released roughly in the same time. If not the sensors from Sony Semiconductors and NEX7 which was a diamond the NEX system would be way behind shaizung in all aspects. Lucky enough: it lives and gains market even despite of obvious lacks which are very painful for customers.
On the other hand you got Alpha where Sony seem to be at least partially clueless. I still can’t figure out who approved releasing A35. This model never made any sense. We get constant flood of low-end bodies ever since year 2007. Meanwhile in last 2 years Sony released TWO lenses. It’s ridiculous. Even Canon did over twice as much while living through a period of lower activity in releasing of the lenses recently.
People wait with the money here, while Sony is playing cat and mouse with itself. (the news that Sony Imaging wasn’t granted exclusivity period for 24MPx FF sensor from Sony Semiconductors that we see here is obvious example)
It’s a good thing that the better E-mount lenses are quite good. On the A-mount, the last three years have seen the 30 macro, 35 f1.8, 50 f1.8 and 85 f2.8 Easy Choice lenses. And an incredible but way too expensive 500mm f4. And a 16-50mm f2.8 SSM. I still say that you can actually get quite a bit done with what Sony has available. More is better, but I would prefer full frame Easy Choice lenses of good quality.
I also don’t see many Samsung mirrorless cameras in my area. It’s probably different in different parts of the world though.
you forgot to mention the 24mm f/2 zeiss that was launched with the 85mm f/2.8
If the D600 uses the same sensor as the A99, and comes with an OVF, at a similar or lower price than the A99, Sony will see mass defection.
I know many like the EVF, that’s fine by me, (even though it’s not for me). But we’re always reminded the EFV = less cost, OVF are SO expensive!
With Nikon’s great service, long history and huge lens line-up, the slight advantage you get with Zeiss lenses (at appropriate extra $$) won’t be enough to keep those invested in A mount who don’t like EVF or are too tired of Sony’s “Let’s update s-l-o-w-l-y and always be one step behind Canonikon” way of doing things, in the Sony stable.
Yes, I’ll end up being one of them, having first went with Minolta when I traded in my Argus C3 for the XGM. Now I don’t know who this camera company is anymore. No pro support, not enough lenses, no specialty (T&S, etc) lenses, and feature deficient cameras.
Dusty
If it’s cheap, it uses pentamirror instead of pentaprism. Some people prefer EVF over pentamirror, even though they prefer larger and brighter pentaprism OVF.
Admin,
Please stop with the news about Nikon.
It’s embarrassing to see you try to hold on to nonsense about everyone using Sony sensors. Sony may develop some of the sensors for camera makers specifications but in NO way does that mean Nikon & Leica is using a Sony sensor that is found in other Sony camera’s.
Someone said it best “we should thank Intel for the amazing iMac & Mac books”.
Sony is a dying system, so let it go. The pro line is dead. Sonya only hope is the NEX and amateur soccer mom cams.
You try to compare Sony to Nikon way too much. Nikon’s pro line is a Porsche, Sony is a bike.
“pro line is dead” Which pro line? Sony so far never claimed to be “pro” when referring to their still image cameras. Broadcast/cine are a different story where Sony is indeed “pro” and far from dead
Ahhhh. Why don’t you look at their lens line up, and let me know the price of their 70-200, and new 500mm
Lens. Then let me know what ametuers and soccer moms are spending $15k on a lens.
This site is full of really stupid people.
“This site is full of really stupid people.”
do tell.
Click, Sony Fool, gigidygoo or should I just call you by your name, Mike Siri, you’re embarrassing yourself with your constant mindless bashing.
How old are you, Mike?
Typo, make that Mike Simi.
@Spoon
Mike Simi? Really? The artist out of Seattle? Or, is it another Mike Simi?
Yep, that Mike.
See here:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1037&message=36161341
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1039&message=36673270
Three dead give aways:
– posting content
– writing style and use of words (for example “Peace Out Meatheads”)
– spelling
He had atleast one account banned from the Dpreview forums for similar behavior.
Complete brainfart on my part. Note to self, next time read before replying.
He calls himself Mike Simi, short for Micheal Simeone and is from Huntington, Long Island. So not the same.
http://www.simiphotos.com/
http://fineartamerica.com/profiles/michael-simeone.html
Well A99 vs D600.
Who will come out first? I really hope Sony doesn’t announce after D600. That will a critical blow to the Sony’s FF sales, which are hurting right now. Because there is no FF on the market right now. 🙁
Sony had better do something quickly or its a Titanic sinking. All can ships can sink.
.
Just wish they would ditch the SLT for the A99 and give us a camera with the best OVF on the planet, just like the A900!!
Keep on dreaming…
101 AF point spec is a joke! from 19 jump to 101 AF point?
keep on dreaming folks..
That’s really funny: When Canon switched from FD to EF-Mount they simply lost me as their customer, since I stayed with manual lenses, and now they could only get me back from connecting my old FDs to Sony’s E-Mount with a full frame mirrorless camera allowing the same also with advanced video functions…
At Nikon Rumors I read for the price: $1500 and not 2000. So I do not understand where this 2000 nr comes from.
Big difference! Anyway: personally I do not think a A99 that is more expensive than the D600 will sell. But we will see.
Oh: and the fps: will 12 fps last longer than 0,5 s?
He said less than 2000. 1500 still fall in that category.
This is more like it, Nikon will most likely release the D600 earlier than Sony…
Nikon will utilize the Sensor better than Sony (the creator) will be able to. Hence producing better results while placing the sensor in a cheaper body.
So essentially… Sony sensor and imaging department has screwed over their camera department…
Nikon – Cheaper Better Image Quality on a Entry level professional body.
Sony – MORE GIZMOS!!!! 3D PANORAMA SWEEP! SHOOTZ FASTER!
As per usual, Nikon will over shadow Sony. All the development effort by will go to waste with low sales just like the A900 and A850.
IF SONY WANTS TO BE SUCCESSFUL, THEY NEED TO MARKET LIKE THE NEX SYSTEM.
GET IN THERE EARLY AND OFFER SOMETHING UNIQUE!!!
CHRIST!!! YOU THINK THEY WOULD HAVE LEARNED SOMETHING FROM THE NEX SALES AND THE D800 SALES!!!!
SACK THE MARKETING TEAM!
The marketing team did an excellent job promoting themselves when the NEX series got out back in 2010 with celebrities included. But that was only in Japan.
I don’t understand why they don’t do the same worldwide.
Their Japanese Ichigan website is far slicker and more professional looking than the rest of Sony’s websites for their cameras, also. All they really need to do is translate it into Engish, but they seem to lack the will to do so.
Oddly enough I saw my FIRST Sony NEX commercial on TV here in San Francisco last Wednesday… It was on my DVR and I was so shocked I had to watch it twice!!!…
It wasn’t very good… about NEX generally… looked like a NEX-3 camera in the shots…
Oh well, maybe they might actually get into marketing and bear in mind… the marketing department can only market what the engineers build!!!…
They did a good job here in Australia with NEX and a65/a77 advertising, it is really the US marketing that doesn’t push the Cameras. Sony USA doesn’t seem to think that Sony Cameras exist.
As far as I’m aware: they do the best job in western/central Europe and Japan. The worst one in USA (hence the low world-wide sales).
Funny fact: in UK they know nothing about Alpha cameras too. I was asking when I will be able to show A57 in local SC to my friend – guy told me that such camera doesn’t exist and I must be mistaken.
Well, not surprising. Sony didn’t even went to the FOCUS ON IMAGING 2012. Sony has some major problems to fix.
As far as it happens very rarely: I tend to agree with wth. We’ll see how the reality goes, but so far the rumors we got are little bit underwhelming in a light of D600. If it’d be buying into a new system and have cash for a full frame camera – after reading the rumors alone I wouldn’t bother with waiting for A99.
“get in there early and offer something unique!!!” – well, getting early won’t happen, we know that. Timing seems to be quite bad for Sony recently. However offering something unique already does happen – highest FPS in it’s price-range, night-vision viewfinder, camera with no shaking elements… only: Sony seems not to have any clue how to advertise it in a way that could potentially lure the sports shooters (and overcome their issues with having sheet of mirror in front of the sensor) or other people who in general need fast, performing camera. (and the A77 UI lag along with below-average high-ISO performance made a great harm for making an outpust already)
Oh boy, Sony, please – tell us finally what we shall expect so that we can finally move on, make up our mind if we wait or will say bye bye. These kind of news like that the D600 will be here sooner, cheaper and will have the same sensor is just killing your business.
IMHO, Sony should fire half their marketing department and get serious in their imagind division:
– for low end cameras, remove the AF drive. Force people to buy new entry level SSM lenses instead of cheap old Minolta glass. Price those cameras low and earn money on lenses instead
– release lenses for god sake! New Beercan, new 300mm/f4, new 400mm/f4.5, new 200mm f2.8, etc etc etc. Have they not noticed for what amount of money some old Minolta glass is sold?
– in the pro line get back to the OVF. I keep saying that from the start that it was a fatal mistake to abandon the OVF completely. There should be a A770 and A990 with an OVF. I will be very keen to see like Sony will fare with the first FF with an EVF (I expect an epic fail)
– Give us an option without an AA filter for both the A99 and A77 just like Nikon did with the D800E
– last not least – get exclusivity on some sensors at least. After betraying your own users with the D800 sensor we really deserve to have something exclusive for a while too!
Switch to Nikon. Obviously it’s a better fit for you.
Whistler – Why do Sony need to have an exclusive sensor, what is wrong with sharing it.? I’d suggest that the more use it the better it can be developed in the future. Why are so many hug up on the Nikon thing?
I don’t agree with cutting off the Minolta glass user based but I do agree they a few holes in their lens line up.
Si
Si – Why do Nikon need to have an exclusive cameras, what is wrong with sharing it.? I’d suggest that the more use it the better it can be developed in the future. Why are so many hug up on the Sony thing?
Really don’t need a 24mp camera, have NEX-7 and Canon 5DMK2.
I do not think having two 24MP cameras is the thing you should be concerned with having. I would be more concerned if it is a camera that I want to have regardless of the MP’s. I cannot imagine the nex 7 being better than the next Sony FF. The nex 7 would be a nice compact compliment to the FF Alpha. I know by having an 5DMK2 that you might not be ready to invest in another FF body and you might not even have any alpha lenses. But I pray that the 99 will focus a lot better than the 5DII or the 99 was not worth waiting for. I am expecting it to perform better than the older MarkII.
“But I pray that the 99 will focus a lot better than the 5DII” – Than MK2? That isn’t that hard – A77 already does much better job in wide range of situations and lightning conditions. IMO A99 should be better than 5D mk3 – this would make a difference 🙂 Match to top end instead of old generations!
Definitely agree, I was just responding to Den’s present camera choices and if getting the 99 was an option. I am more than hopeful that the 99 will provide an excellent camera choice. I am hoping that the 99 will exceed both the 800 and markIII in the following manner; 1. 24MP will provide excellent resolution, perfect for my needs since I am not in a studio setting where low iso and higher resolution of the 800 would be advantageous but the 99, I believe be better low light (high iso) performance for under the lights at night sports and inside gymnasium and theatre performances. The focus should obviously be fast but I guess that does not always mean accurate, but I assume it will be. The fps will be short of blistering as long as they improve the buffering ability. I also hope to see an improvement in the processor. I really cannot wait to get my hands on this camera. Sony has had plenty of time to work on this camera and my expectations are very high.
Maybe…
– 24Mpx sensor is designed by Nikon and manufactured by Sony Semiconductors.
– The agreement is that Sony can sell it to other companies after defined time period.
– One of such “other” customer is Sony Imaging.
– Some electronic circuits like ADC is patented by Nikon thus Sony Semiconductor is not allowed to sell it to others – must engineer something else as a replacement (or it is Sony Imaging responsibility to provide IP).
– Nikon orders sensors in big batches thus the price is low.
– Sony Imaging orders in relatively low quantities thus the price per sensor is high.
This can answer why Sony cameras are just step behind Nikon ones, the sensor handling is also step behind Nikon one and the price…
I would not be surprised if the reality looks exactly as described above.
Well, from such a description one can think that Sony Imaging just gets the leftovers from Nikon business…
Nikon D600 ≤ $2000… Sony A99 ≤ $1699 within A77 body style + VG-C77AM + NP-FM500H… what are you waiting for… get it?
if Sony releases a Fullframe body at 1699USD, that will destroy current APS-C sales including A77.
Though it would be better to cannibalise their own sales than have Nikon do it for them.
This.
Sony is for people like sky walker & Carl, people who only talk tech and never talk Photigraphy.
Nikon & canon are for photographers.
The choice is clear.
Be a meathead or be a photographer.
They are meatheads !!! I am a photographer, bahahaha!!!!
Click please show me your work.
Last I checked Photographers just use cameras, and don’t give the slightest fuck what name is written on the front.
My work is shot with Canon, Nikon, Sony, and 120mm film, a mixture of fullframe and aps-c
Can you tell me what is what? http://www.wix.com/fw08504/fkwstudio
Piss off.
I would have no hesitation whatsoever to compare work with you, should you have the cojones to link to some of your photos.
That said, this is, at least in part, a tech focused site, so it’s rather obvious that that sort of discussion would take place here. But if you’d like to talk about the artistic side of photography then go ahead, I can’t see anyone minding.
@joke
I can’t tell which is which, they all suck! The same old boring shit. I care about what I use. When I want muddy noisy pics I choose Sony. I choose Nikon when I want quality.
@carl
Bark bark. Stop hating! Just cause people with disposable cameras will school your work, you shouldn’t hate.
Hahahaha.
Meatheads and soccer moms unite!!!
I get paid for my work.
I would pay you to not post your horrible work anywhere so no one has to hurt their eyes looking at it.
Hahahahahahah
So you won’t then.
Not that I’m surprised one bit, mind you. You’re awfully transparent, after all.
don’t.
They can always lower their APS-C camera prices.
Very true. Their FF were relatively cheap too..
Even if it were the same price I would buy the A77 over FF equivalent.
APS-C does have advantages over FF. Reach for wildlife, deeper DOF for macro and all my FF lenses use the sweet spot on a crop sensor.
I guess there will be lots of people who buy a cheap FF camera just because…..they can.
😉
Aps-C only has the advantages you mentioned at equivalent mp count, although quite honestly, they are pretty weak compared to the sheer disadvantages in comparison to FF< namely the vast difference in DOF, Color, Dynamic Range, Noise, etc…
A77 sales are relatively low (look at the rating at amazon). The model is a lost cause anyway (unfortunately and saying nothing about it’s current quality).
D600 $1500 bye bye A99 $1699
Bye Bye I.B.I.S.
Bye Bye AF Zeiss
d600 = $1500
a77 = $1499
@.@??!!
I’m still confused why we are still referring to the next FF camera from Sony as the A99!!!…
Judging by what I read admin as saying the top end Sony camera is being positioned below the Nikon D800… That doesn’t make sense…
I have to believe the next Sony FF with be an “8” series camera and may be positioned close to the upcoming D600…
The A99 (whenever it appears) has to be very high-end to A) keep the real PRO’s onboard and B) give people like me an upgrade path…
I went from P&S to NEX-5 to A55 to A77…
I’ll probably skip the 24MP FF and wait to see what comes after that… my A77 will work perfectly for at least a year or so until I feel like making the next upgrade.
I have never owned a FF camera and would like to try it but it has to be SIGNIFICANTLY better than my A77!!!..
Depends on what your favorite subject is. For portraiture, lowlight and high dynamic range photos FF would make a grat differance to A77.
You know when I was in College at R.I.T. I worked for the Rochester free press during the summers shooting sports and the first thing I was told was never turn on the motor drive. In my whole career I dont’ think one used image has come off a motordrive. Combat no peek and the same method used in MASS events where you aren’ t viewing through the camera. I can sort of see how it might be useful at those crazy rates but pray and spray isn’t photography.
“pray and spray isn’t photography”
Then you haven’t shot an 800 guest jewish orthodox wedding during the reception 😉
Looking forward to the first FF with a damn articulating screen for those events.
Guys, I don’t care if the A99 will be less than $2000 or not, I do believe ”
you get what you pay for”, as long as Sony next FF camera can do good with ISO, good weather seal, standard hot shoe, plus many more G and Zeiss lenses with weather seals. I will be sticking with Sony.
My opinion, Sony could bring fantastic camera. If they really concentrate on critical features they will sell it in healthy way. AF speed, cross point as they could bring without any issues (hardware or software), ISO handling, ISO performs, AF low light, body quality & price point.
Please Sony there is no meaning of expanding ISO if the NR not develop to satisfied needs. Give us up to 6400 with high quality better than 102000-204000.
low numbers don’t sell. Besides: just imagine the amount of trolling from canikon boys. Suddenly we would learn that ISO 12800 is a thing you can’t live withouth.
Yes low numbers don’t sell, but it will definitely sale by the quality you give. Canikon boys won’t be in a good situation if the results speaks itself. Also large number do not mean all the time being good.
May be in future or near future we won’t live with ISO 12800.
Stills you had a good point & there is many solution IF SONY want.
Yep. I agree. Problem is that so far Sony haven’t made any true dedicated flagship camera.
I got A77 which is named Flagship APS-C and each time I try to explain someone what’s the role of it I got a trouble – it’s not a sports camera cause at highest ISOs it’s bit underwhelming. It’s not typical landscape camera either cause it got crazy modes like 12 FPS or nice, advanced tracking AF mechanic. It’s not all-weather camera cause as far as body itself is fine: You have only one reasonably priced lens that’s fully weather-sealed. I could possibly put it into macro shelf, but heck… camera made for macro? It’s not A77, even though it happen to have a perfectly chosen set of features for that work. Especially when right now we don’t have any current macro lens besides 30mm SAM – 100 macro got discontinued officially, while 50mm macro disappeared somehow in silence from all the Sony papers.
Sony needs to make high-end camera dedicated for some purpose instead of being jack-of-all-trades, and than try getting another one to fill the gap for rest of consumers. And get the lenses out.
This is like Sony digging their own pit! Im just bitter, because Nikon are very clever and cunning with their strategy. They released 24MP D3200 camera which could affect the sales of Sony a77(people who think MPs are everything will go for the cheaper D3200) and they are releasing D600 which could possibly affect the sales of upcoming a99 and yet Sony supply them sensors? This is just ludicrous, hope it was an inevitable decision based on only the deficit of the company in the last few years! Still i don’t think D600 would affect the sales of a99, if it would then it should affect the sales of D800 as well but rather the A99 will affect the sales of D800 and 5D mark III with the a99 being a better all rounder and more versatile package and a cheap action alternative solution to the D4 and 1D series!
i like sony strategy of raising lens prices and make it closer or even more expensive than canikon. it helped me in selling my old sony gears at 2nd hand market at reduced loss.
looking at sony’s financial situation, it’s unlikely they can afford aggressive pricing anymore so sooner or later the price gap with canikon might no be justifiable to invest in sony system especially if you intend to move up to higher end gears.
A99 with same sensor as D600 affect the sales of D4 and 1D?
You lost me there..
Are you too dumb to understand? Its the same renowned sensor as in a900 and in D3X, but we ll see an updated one with the a99. And a99 won’t use the D600 sensor, but the other way around.
“And a99 won’t use the D600 sensor, but the other way around.”
what’s the difference if both are same sensor lol?
“what’s the difference if both are same sensor lol?”
This site is filled with DUMB people who love only picking out on people and can never be honestly objective! It means that the native sensor belongs to Sony. And he said that since a99 uses the same sensor as the d000 it cant compare as cheap action alternatives to Canikon flagship models, how’s that a rational thought?
you do realize nikon camera has better sensor even it’s from native sony sensor don’t you?
cheap action alternatives…well it depend on usage.
if you don’t use super telephoto then nikon d600 might be a cheap action alternative to a99 with OVF =)
if you do use super telephoto then sony 500mm price will offset price difference between a99 and d800/d4
“you do realize nikon camera has better sensor even it’s from native sony sensor don’t you?”
What do you consider better? The noise performance of the latests sensors as used by Sony and Nikon (not to be confused with SLT vs non SLT) is about equal, objectively measured. A bit more DR for Nikon, better colour seperation for Sony. In other words, the use of the word better means a subjetive choice in some of the above factors.
Swearing won’t make you right. It just shows your insecurity. But the sales and tests will tell.
And hey: every new sensor is an updated old one in a way. So what’s new about that?
How on earth is that swearing? Maybe you get offended too easily because of your strawman arguments. Why should i feel insecure? can you tell me a genuine reason? I buy what works best for me, why should my preference be based on the success of a product? Are you an hardware worshiper? And there is a huge difference between updated and new generation. Seems like only sidestepping wins you arguments.
No need to ask: you’re clearly plain dumb
Still no one knows what your point is! Sadness!
And according to your theory thee, the D4 should have a superior sensor to D800 but not the case. They have difference of 20MP between them but the D800 still performs very close to the D4 in terms of noise!
Yes in controled enviroment but not in real world situation where D4 is up to 1 Ev better than D800 even after file normalization.
hey hey..easy way to get some money, faith and trust back, in case some people from Sony are reading this…just release those revised version of G lenses with weather sealing and whatever we heard some time ago along with some rebranded, revised minolta 70-200 f4, 200 f/2.8, 300 f/4, 400 f4.5 and 600 f/4..and why not, easy choice FF lenses like you did years ago with the good SAM 85mm f/2.8 along with a cheap FF model ala a850… but don’t try to fool customers with prices..they said EVF in order to reduce prices instead of pentaprism (not pentamirror)
waiting patiently for the next FF….waiting…
Waiting impatiently
It’s easy for me. I bought an a580 because of the OVF. I bought a D800 because of the OVF. I would buy an A770 with an OVF. I predict that Sony will have few sales with an A99 and EVF. It won’t feel pro-enough to most pro photographers.
Why is everybody comparing D600 to Sony’s to be top of the line A99? I was hoping for a D800 rival.
I am changing the question. So Sony will be selling two different SLT FF’s. Will the crappier of the better one be the first to be announced?
Cause according to SAR the A99 main feature will be a low price. D600 seems to be exactly the same, hence the people comparing one to another 🙂
D800 rival will most likely come out in 2013.
I guess the low price is mainly because of decrease in FF sensor manufacturing cost. Maybe Sony is finally able to make low cost FF sensor, or there is a lot of 24mp sensor leftover from A900 era.
I think it will be sink or swim time for the SLT with the a99.
Nikon is taking much of the profit potential out of the camera body at a time when Sony is looking for better revenue with the aggressive pricing we are seeing with the D3200 and rumored D600.
Sony will need to be just as aggressive by marketing cameras with better technology and equal image quality and priced to compete with Nikon at similar MP levels.
People who cameras and photography will continue to be wary of Sony A-mount as long as the lens issue is perceived as it is now so much of the professional market will continue to be largely unavailable.
Nikon is not good. Go dpreview and look at D3200 comparion with NEX 7
way behind at ISO 100 not even comparable
image is soft
http://leicarumors.com/2011/10/25/interesting-interview-with-stefan-daniel.aspx/
Mr/Ms Andrea,
Is there any info about re-production of Minolta AF 28-35 mm f/2.0 as smae optic quality with newly designed + SSM.
the previous rumor on lenses up-grade were Sony 70-200mm f/2.8 & 70-400mm f/4.5-5.6 G SSM. Is there any lens you didn’t mention to it?
Mr 🙂
I have no info about a 28-35mm lens. While I will post some other lens info soon!
A 28-35 F2 lens makes absolutely no sense. There must be a mistake in both the zoom range AND the aperture.
Zoom lenses fast than F2.8 are extremely rare. And obviously the zoom range is not very useful, either.
“re-production of Minolta AF 28-35 mm f/2.” – AFAIK Minolta never made such lens. Closest I could find is Minolta 20-35mm f/3,5-4,5
@ Mike, Sky_walker & Carl
My mistake I meant PRIME lenses. My apologies to all of you (Including Admin).
Minolta AF 28mm f/2.0
Minolta AF 35mm f/2.0
I think if Sony re-production those two it will fill the gap a little of the prices & FF line.
The Rokkor 24-35/3.5 is a closer fit.
Anyway, he was asking about the 28/2 and the 35/2, just with an unfortunate use of the hyphen. At this point, if Sony was coming out with 28mm and/or 35mm primes, they’d have new optical designs, rather than recycled Minolta ones. But given that Sony isn’t capable of releasing a standard lens for the NEX system, I can’t imagine either would be high on Sony’s to-do list. Which is a shame, as I could do with a better 28.
In some how you are right. Stills IF SONY want they could. Do have any suggest on lenses line up. Any opinion/ideas to share with us. (Prime/Zoom/ANY)
If you want lens advice, you need to say what you’re planning on shooting, what current gear you have, and how much you’re willing to pay. Even general purpose, quality equipment like the Zeiss 24-70 aren’t going to suit everyone’s tastes.
I want to shoot landscapes, macro, portrait & sport. My gear Sony a700+grip, 50/1.8, 30/2.8, Minolta Celtic 28/2.8, Minolta 2x M/A convertors-S, Tamron 70-300. Willing to pay with decent optics high build quality weather sealed.
If you want weather sealed, your only choice is the 16-50/2.8, currently. Though that isn’t a bad choice in general.
Your 50/1.8 is already pretty decent. If you’re not finding it limiting, I’d suggest you keep it as a portrait lens.
Sport is tougher. The A700 just isn’t that hot at action photography, so you might want to consider replacing it with an A77. A 70-200/2.8 (or 80-200/2.8) lens would probably be best unless you can’t get close (where you’ll need either a teleconverter, the 70-400, or an expensive telephoto prime). Sony, Minolta, and the latest offerings from Sigma and Tamron are all pretty good choices, though not cheap. All these make excellent portrait lenses, too, though they are fairly heavy.
Most macro lenses are pretty good optically, it’s more a matter of picking the focal length that suits you. The Sony/Minolta 100mm and Tamron 90mm are both quite effective portraiture lenses, if you’d like to kill two birds with one stone. Most good lenses work reasonably well as macro lenses when using extension tubes or good quality dioptres, so you may want to forgo buying a specialised lens.
The choices for APS format landscape lenses are a bit limited. The Zeiss 24mm is very good, but probably not wide enough. The 16-35/2.8 is wide enough, but expensive and heavy. For less ambitious options, the Sony 16-50/2.8 and Tokina 11-18/2.8 are probably the best options for autofocus lenses. There are some manual focus lenses like the Samyang 14mm that are worth considering, if you don’t mind manual focus.
@ Sky_walker
Replied, what about portrait is a77 a good camera for? (It’s good to have almost every type of photography in one camera but it won’t be as good as we want).
Macro lenses, I just bought a Sony 30mm f/2.8 to test. I had a sight on sigma they produce new generation of Macro lenses. Sigma 150mm f/2.8 HSM will be my next target. I hope Sony will in these remaining months of 2012 will do something on lenses line up.
@Sky walker , just tell them its the jack of all trades but master of none 😛 Okay altleast studio at ISO 50 😀