Image courtesy: Photoscala
Sony just issued the new Q4 report (Click here to download). During the last three months of 2011 digital camera sales fell by 22.5%. Overall Sony sold 21 Million digital cameras in 2012. That’s 3 million less than expected. A bad news but certainly not a Sony’s fault. The Thai flood affected almost all companies (Nikon, Canon and so on). The new Sony CEO Hirai wants to reinforce the imaging business and bring it back to profit within 2012.
64 Responses
2012 = red (negative)?
It looks more like a generic trend spanning through all quarters than just a singular case happening at end off the year due to flood. Sales fell by quite a bit even in first quarter when there was nothing to blame on.
10.0 atomic earthquake aint nothing.
How dare you say the flood wasn’t Sony’s fault! Of course it was.
They built their site in flood lands and caused the storm to wash all of those cameras away intentionally to write them off as a loss because they knew they had defects. Then they collected the insurance monies and began ‘full frame’ prototype testing and when they finally show it off and say there are cameras that will be shipping from Japan….GUESS WHAT? A typhoon will destroy the warehouse where they are located. But nobody will be hurt or lose their life though, so we will say “Awwwwwwwe poor Sony” and continue to wait for more bodies.
wow.. that’s a cool conspiracy theory, any sources?
Well Sony, you can make easy money if they want too. Just give us the A99. No more delays. If you want my money Sony, then A99 + 50mmCZ now plz. A99 should have came out before A57.
We need Lens too. Don’t throw a lot of bodies on the wall and hope some will stick.
I bet the 50mmCZ will convert some Canon and Nikon people too.
I bet D3200 (APCS 24MP €600) and D600 (FF 24MP €1500) will convert almost all alpha people long before A99 too 😉
Damn you D600. 😛
if D600 it’s for real being priced that low..hell, Sony isn’t the only one to worry unless they come with an even cheaper model, and if that happens..guess what? the market will collapse! and with that..! brroooooommmmm!!! end of the world in 2012 for some companies while profit for some users getting the most of low prices of future FF cameras
back to being serious..D600 is the real threat to possible FF A-mount new comers and current users.
+1
I think Nikon is not so stupid to make dirty cheap FF and undercut their baseline of higher margin bodies. I guess D600 for $1500 would have some functions crippled in order to discourage pro users. I think it would harm more Canon 5DMkII sales than A99 sales.
I will definitely wait for the A99 (or whatever its name will be) AND the D600 and then I will decide, what to do. There are a lot of Minolta goodies and several other specialties waiting, either for the A99 or for sale.
Next decision will then be, what to buy instead…
D3200 isn’t converting anyone at the moment. It’s a hell of a sensor in a camera that has little to no ability to take advantage of it. Our store feels nothing short of total apathy where that camera is concerned. Just using the thing in comparison to shooting an A57 is wholly unsatisfying.
As for the mythic D600, since it is in fact a fabled camera, No One has to worry about anything yet, I’d say.
God save the rumormill.
The Thai flood, convenient to have such a handy excuse for everything.
Cameras not available in sufficent quantities – “Soooo sooorry, but you know, there was a flood in Thailand.”
Delayed new camera models – “Soooo sooorry, but you know, there was a flood in Thailand.”
Can I get decent lenses for my new NEX? – “Soooo sooorry, but you know, there was a flood in Thailand.”
Ricebag fallen over in China – “Soooo sooorry, but you know, there was a flood in Thailand.”
Interesting to see that the other companies do not have such difficulties. At least when it comes to introducing some decent cameras and lenses. But maybe their R&D is busy in developing new black sub-models of their silver lenses.
Prototype firmware for A77, sorry the flood..
From Thom Hogan yesterday’s post:
“Nikon is probably the most transparent of the camera companies in terms of information about camera sales, probably because most of their sales are in cameras (64% this year, compare that to Sony’s 8%). Today they reported their full fiscal year numbers (fiscal year ended March 31st).
While Nikon was impacted directly by the Thailand flood, they actually reported an extraordinary gain (due to insurance proceeds), though this doesn’t include the impact it had on DSLR sales.
Surprisingly, Nikon managed to beat their previous estimates (made only a couple of months ago) in the Imaging group. They finished the year with 587b yen in imaging sales, and a strong 54b yen profit. Nikon sold 4.74m DSLRs and mirrorless (compared to 4.29m last year; and remember, most of their DSLRs are made in Thailand), 7.13m lenses (compared to 6.36m last year), and a whopping 17.37m Coolpix (compared to 14.26m last year). Nikon claims 29% of the interchangeable lens camera market (DSLR and mirrorless), 17.5% of the compact camera market, and 19% of the overall camera market. Nikon described sales of the Nikon 1 model as “brisk.”
Nikon also makes forward predictions. They expect camera sales to increase 24% and profits 48% in the coming year. Yeah, you read that right. Nikon thinks they’re a growth company. Let’s put that in numbers: DSLRs and mirrorless sales in the coming year: 7m units (up 48% over last year). Compact camera sales: 18m units (up 3.7% over last year). Coupled with the CIPA estimates for industry wide sales, that would put Nikon’s market share for DSLR/mirrorless at 37% and their overall camera market share at 22%, both significant gains in what is a flat camera market. Heck, if that weren’t enough, Nikon expects to sell 10m lenses in the coming year (another 40% increase).”
MAGIC!
lol
Sony could get nice results too… if they would actually deliver… (stuff other than entry-level bodies)
+1
Sony’s SLR business is still a lot smaller than those of Canon and Nikon. Please correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe Nikon also had serious problems with the Thailand flood – as did quite a lot of European and American manufacturers with production facilities in the area.
If the graph is correct, then figures for Q4 is generally lower than the rest, and the general trend for 2011 was lower than 2010, so the real decline seems to be in the order of “only” 10-15 %.
Didn’t Nikon release a 3 bodies including outstanding full frame and at least 3 new lenses ever since?
Seems like flood is a nice convenience for Sony.
You mean the full frame camera that locks up because of a firmware bug? Seriously, why all the anti Sony tirades in this board. The CEO wants to change things around and most of the messages here are Sony bashing messages.
Not sure if you’ve paying been paying attention but the Nikon 1 series were produced elsewhere from the start and the D4 and D800 release were originally planned somewhere last year. Talk about delay. 😉
They were? *scratches his head* hm… I guess I’m not as up-to-date with Nikon rumours as I thought. Though…. the A99 was planned for mid of last year as well…
>The Thai flood, convenient to have such a handy excuse for everything.
Had you been in Thailand during that time, as I was, you wouldn’t be so flippant.
The flood lasted 2 months and the water was 2-3m deep. Add in the clearup time and you can see that a 22% drop was a good result.
If they would HAVE and SELL the stuff people want, no purchase decrease graphs would be needed.
But since they are unable to provide models with features, that the users want to buy as well as supply enough pieces of the their few, but already released lenses, they really shouldn’t complain.
Btw.. yeah, just keep bringing out more low-spec bodies, when all the users want are lenses and more high-spec bodies :<
You’re telling me that the majority of users there want to but $2300 USD full frame cameras? Oh, Sony DSLTs and NEX cameras are not overpriced. Do your comparative shopping (at least in the U.S.).
I agree that many users want lenses. I would say, though, that beginner without a DLSR or a mirrorless cam is looking for a camera with video capability (and a zoom lens) for around $600. Guess how much the NEX-F3 and A37 is slated to sell for?
One of the reasons the F3 is larger is that Sony may finally be rectifying a shortocming in the NEX – the slightly larger size may introduce a little better cooling on the F3 and extend video recording times.
“You’re telling me that the majority of users there want to but $2300 USD full frame cameras?” – Majority? No. Enough people to make D800 hit spot 1 on Amazon camera sales? Yep.
The D800 has not stayed up as the best selling DSLR. It can’t – it’s not an impulse buy for most people. Initially, people who wnat to upgrade will buy it, but most of the sales will be in the $600-$900 USD range. Sony should target that market the most because that’s where they are going to get and going to keep customers (assuming they come up with good cameras and lenses to upgrade to). Not everybody needs a G or L lens, but if Sony can come up with reasonably priced, good performing, fairly high speed primes and zooms, they should do fine. The thing is, most people don’t go beyond the kit lenses. And if Sony supplies Apple with sensors, that should be a decent revenue source for years to come.
You see – here we come back to Chicken or an Egg issue that was stated back earlier.
No, the D800 didn’t stay on top for long but it was a success Sony never have seen for it’s own Full Frames nor serious APS-C cameras, nor actually: Any of it’s A-mount cameras at all. And investing into the “most sales” market won’t change it for any better as company needs grown, steady system that would attract long-term customers which will feel confident by investing money into Sony A1000 or whichever full frame camera. And this means that you should prioritize the expensive cameras, G glass and stuff that’s beyond pockets of majority of people, so that they would actually have a feeling that they are putting money into the serious system.
Olympus failed on thinking like you did – they tried to sell outstanding cameras that were within range of average customers and nothing else above it. No full frames, nothing alike. See where they are now? The 4/3 system is (almost) dead today, while the only thing keeping Oly alive is m4/3.
“And if Sony supplies Apple with sensors, that should be a decent revenue source for years to come.” – it’s not enough to keep Sony going. And it doesn’t make imaging division look any better nor have any more money. Semiconductors division is separate one from Sony Imaging.
If you’re read the rest of my posts here, I’ve been saying the following:
1. Produce price leading, feature competitive (or better) low end SLT and NEX cameras priced at round $600 with lens. They will be doing this with the A37 and NEX-F3.
2. Produce reasonable step up models with more features, choice of higher or lower resolution sensor, still keep it under $1000 with lens. They have done this with the A57 and A65. And the NEX-5N is already a good camera that sells well.
3. A high end APS-C camera for more dedicated amateurs or for people who love that stuff. The A77 fills that bill. The NEX-7 also fills that bill.
4. Produce a relatively low cost full frame and a higher end full frame camera. Hopefully, the A99 will be the former. A second full frame, with higher resolution that’s around the $3000 mark should do relatively well. Perhaps not D4 well but fairly well.
5. More high quality lenses for the NEX. A 16-50 f2.8 zoom (yeah it will be oversized), a 16mm f2 prime (another largish lens), a revised 16mm f2.8, a 20mm f2.8, a 30mm f2.8, 70mm f2.8 macro (lower cost primes) and some faster Zeiss primes. Also, a higher end 70-200mm f2.8 and 70-400mm zoom would be nice, but that’s covered fairly well with the LA-EA2 and A mount zooms.
6. 35mm f2, 100mm f2 and 200 f2.8 full frame A-mount primes would be nice. The 35mm and 100mm could be part of the Easy Choice series. A 300mm f4 would be nice as well. A 10-20mm high quality APS-C zoom, a high quality 16-80mm f4 constant aperture zoom and a 24-100mm f4 full frame constant aperture zoom would be nice as well.
Do I expect Sony to release all these in a year? No. They do tend to introduce new NEX bodies too regularly. I suggest that because those cameras are selling well and they are constantly tweaking the design and feature set to sell even more of those type of cameras.
The landscape will be quite different in three years. I think Sony is preparing for a mirrorless future. I would prefer to carry a lightweight NEX camera for daily shoots. I would prefer a lighter full frame camera than manufacturers currently provide.
Sony needs more customers to upgrade to their high end offerings. They need to produce cameras for mass consumption and the ecosystem for users to upgrade to. Hopefully, the new CEO really means what he says – that the imaging division will be a pillar of the new Sony strategy.
Oh, the new Sony waterproof camcorder and the rumored GoPro competitor are welcome entrants to the imaging field, as far as I’m concerned. Migrating some of the FS700 features to the VG30 would be nice as well.
It will take a multi pronged approach for Sony to be more succcesful in the marketplace. They already have some pieces in place. I never said just produce good lower end cameras. The goal for lower end models is to have relatively high margin cash cows that fuel development of a full system.
Olympus had a great system at one time. I never understood how the company that produced the OM system could not migrart successfully to the AF world. Minolta’s biggest problem is the lack of cash after the Honeywell settlement. Those two companies had great products. Now, though Sony has lost a lot of money in the last few years, they do still have money in the bank to execute a sound strategy. A camera guy or two in the executive ranks would not hurt. Somebody like Phil Braden, a great Minolta employee, would not hurt. Someone like Gary Friedman and David Kilpatrick as unofficial envangelists would not hurt.
The new strategy is already at work. Have you seen the latest Outdoor Photographer magazine? Lots of Sony ads, a Sony sponsored contest. Let’s hope that Sony becomes a great success in their imaging endeavors. Healthy competition is good. And it keeps people employed.
Sony overall is in very deep trouble. They have made their first profit in 5 years, although a much smaller than everyone expected. The issue they have is that ALL their products are overpriced. The marketing gurus in Japan must think that in the current enviroment the name Sony on any given product allows it to be priced 30% higher than the competition. It does not, thats why their TV business is going downhill. Brand loyality in electronics is equal to zero and Samsung is giving Sony a run for its money in this area. Switching brands here is tho very easy – unlike in DSLRs where you besides the camera have thousands od dollars in glass. So I am not surprised Hirai wants to push the imaging division. Although I do hope he realizes that he alienated a lot of loyal Sony users with the SLT only concept. If he would decide to keep one high end APS-C and one FF DSLR in the lineup it would be his best possible decision. But my hopes are not high.
well…SLT was introduced while Howard was in the top posititon of Sony and I dont know how much of the Alpha division planning got under his supervision…now Hirai gets a troubled imaging division…I say, expect the results of the new strategy from Hirai in about…2 years, if Sony still exists in the market. Not inmediate results.
and to add something about what was told already here…Nikon doesn’t seems to be facing that much problem compared to Sony…they got camera production resumed in a few weeks in one of the plants in China. I think Sony took more than a Month to resume production.
And I’m sure, if they didn’t want to loose money, they could have choosen high ground for one of the main camera and lens production plant in a country that gets flooded from time to time.
This was once in a century (or more) flooding. And Samsung likes to steal other peoples ideas. I really hope that Apple prevails against in its lawsuits against Samsung. You notice that Samsung is still making things for Apple as Apple threatens their phone business. There is always something new to be copied.
And why should everyone be able to copy other people’s innovations? Apple, more than anyone, does great research on interface design, human factor engineering, etc. It’s not a coincidence that Samsung products bear more than a resemblance to iphones. That has to stop.
But going back to Sony, their production was indeed shifted to another part of Thailand. Part of the problem is that they did not anticipate the success of their own products. Thus, they have not spent capital on manufacturing capabilities (as well as on the supply chain). Thus, product shortages excacerbated by multiple natural disasters (Japanese tsunami, Thai flooding, etc). Now that NEX has become a success, a wise CEO should emphasize that part of the business.
I have no problems with SLTs. I understand that some people will love OVFs to death, but a few years from now, mirrorless cameras will be the dominant interchangeable camera. Sony has a lead in developing such models. Remember, business runs in cycles.
Sony’s SLT tech is solid and maturing, but they could have updated the A900 to keep the FF users, while converting the crop sensor bodies. Eventually they need to go full mirrorless. SLRs will become like medium format is now.
講那麼好聽! 漲價造成的部分怎不說說?
met sambal en kroepoek graag
@whistler : With thousands of dollars in glass you can get 50% cash back selling them on ebay. Then think about the lenses you have barely used, I bet again 50% of your lenses weren’t really needed but just bought out of curiosity or a hope to get better pictures. From the remaining 50%, again 50% are old and are slow AF screw driven so you would replace them anyway in the years to come…. what keeps you now from changing to a Company that gives you less frustration ? Further just buy what you really need and you will have to spend just 25% more of your into Sony invested (and planed) money! Not that much for being happy all the years to come 🙂
Nice theory, reality often varies. But I have luckily sold a bunch of my lenses for reasonable prices, I am now on bare minimum to keep me able to make photos while my D800E arrives alongside the first lenses. I for now am going dual system and will decide if I keep my Sony gear later this year.
Just to add – I hear from a lot of pros or enthusiasts that they are fed up and they just have to go to an other brand. Its not that they would like to do it (neither do I) but they have no viable options. And Sony should realize that they are loosing customers which are paying much much more every year for gear than an A33 entry user ever will. We keep hearing that there is not enough demand for high end FF cameras, but looking at the success of a D800 or 5DmkIII, the market is there, Sony just fails to take its bite of it, which is very sad.
Sony choose not to take a bite of it… If you look at the figures they aren’t really interested in money, which is why they made a 5.6 Billion dollar loss.
You see, at Sony, they care, which is why they are helping Nikon make $$$.
Sony thanks you for selling their products and spending money purchasing Nikon products.
If only Sony could create a Sensor like the one in the Nikon D800 and put it inside the A900….
Perhaps Sony can buy the Sensor from Nikon and make a great camera with it???
Remark: Nikon bought this sensor from Sony so Sony cannot buy it’s own sensor from Nikon.
Remark 2: We already know that both comming full frame cameras will be SLT, not A900-alikes.
Remark 3: Duplicating Nikon won’t do any good in gaining market share. Sony needs to do better. (note that better doesn’t always mean a high ISO quality or a price – you can be better in various different topics to make your product stand out and be desired – like Nikon did with D800E)
What a shame… if Sony only knew how to utilize their own product that they created….
I’m not too surprised Sony sales have suffered, aside from the flood Sony has not been competitive at the budget end. Gone are the days of the a200/300/350 where Sony undercut their competition.
only the flood ? don’t think so
poor product quality , no tethered, no remote control, bad firmware
Financial crisis people will wait with investment.
In your comments, please emphasize things that people compalin about instead of reality. I can see the shopper in Best Buy asking the salesperson – “Excuse me, which camera here allows me to tether the camera to my computer so I can take awesome pictures of my cat’s whiskers and so that I can take the picture when my kitty is looking at me while I am making sure the image corners are super sharp?”
You forget to mention that new DSLR announcements from CaNikon are also having problems. It’s too bad, but I assume that those companies are in the process of rectifying the problems.
Oh, do you know that Alphas and NEX cameras all work with the remote Commander (a remote control)?
It is funny to see that more and more people here having a discomfort concerning their camera choice. I have this feeling since OVF was dropped and I have been a lot criticized here staying criticizing this Sony decision. In the end Sony’s DSLR will probably all disappear as Samsung’s did and I can already see people writing here that all this is just my fault 🙂
Are some of you reading the Canon and Nikon rumour sites as-well ? Do you realize that those people there are not half as much frustrated as we are here ? This should tell us long about the right camera choices and directions to go!
Actually, it’s the same people expressing their discomfort with EVFs repeatedly. Which if fine, because discussions are good. Some people don’t like EVFs and SLTs. Well, I like what they allow me to do, though full manual controlon video while AF is engaged at full speed would be nice (on the SLT models).
only 2 companies making money in their business in Thai Flood crisis which are Seagate and WD 😀 lol… smart business man lol…
Check your numbers…
Boohoo!
Olympus are resurging from even deeper abuse.
Sony ought to wake up and speak loudly with quality/innovative products.
I could care less if they lost out to some X,Y,Z on TV, Tablet and phone sales.
Sony has chosen their factory locations like every other company does focussing on social and environmental dumping without going for the most democratic governments caring for that, so they’re to blame for the flood disaster the same as every other big company.
Unfortunately this hit Sony more than others, since Sony’s camera customers have many alternatives differently to the hard drive factories also effected by the flood which experienced a huge price increase just because most computers wouldn’t work without it. Canon had some problems, but not that much losses, since they’re grounded on a solid professional base, who’s not willing to change, while Sony much more depends on gaining fast passing customers’ attention.
Sony had planned a home run with their NEX-7. Seeing it from the behind without the flood they should have even sold the NEX-7 bundled with SEL-24F18Z plus a black SEL-50F18 for Christmas and would have gained a huge market share with that without people complaining about the lack of (quality) lenses. Well, they didn’t get their E-Mount home run with fanboys’ orgiastic screamings, so there are these small steps now with bored fanboys – that’s simply the way it is…
My car was still starting this morning.
The facts are:
1. Sony’s APS-C crop sensors are the most advanced of all manufacturers, better than Canon 1.6x in dynamic range and low light.
2. Jpeg engine needs work.
3. SLT has advantages in fps and full-time AF in Live View. SLT bodies have good controls and are light.
4. EVF’s are getting better, but not fully accepted.
5. Lens system need work, but can use legacy A-mount. New 16-50mm demonstrates Sony’s China manufacturing capability.
6. NEX bodies are very small and light, but E-mount lenses system needs work.
Overall as a Canon user, my experience with A65 using 16-50 f/2.8 and 16-105mm is very positive. SLT is very innovative and different from SLR. The new A57 is a high value product also. The NEX-5n is good as a point and shoot substitute. I would encourage any traditional user to experience these new cameras.
Things are bad for Sony financially, but technically they are on a positive path. They just need to better focus their products and work on the weak areas.
AG,
i don’t completely agree with you. As already Almazar80 pointed out it’s not only a problem of technology’s edge for Sony.
They have a great hi-tech edge and, for this reason, they are very successfull in selling hi-tech products to other monufacturers like Apple, Nikon etc. etc.
But Sony is a very bad “integrator”. They don’t understand HOW to develop a product in the right path. They just fulfill it with a lot of super hi-tech qualities and think it will sell well. It’s not like that.
I make some remarks just as example:
1) At the moment they don’t have ANY FF DSLR which is very wrong. Because it’s pretty clear that the future of DSRLs will be in FF department. The APS-C side will be eaten by the CSC cameras (or mirrorless), and this is PARTICULARLY true for Sony because their SLT are already without mirror, so you lose the advantage of an OVF (if any!).
2)They don’t have enough lenses in A mount, especially those with a stellar quality, Zeiss or not made; and those are fairly important for a biz pro photographer who makes money from taking pictures. Those are who buy your FF products!
3) The NEX system is quite good in quality, and the 5n and 7 models are pretty good but still they lack IMPORTANT refinements in GUI and in firmware. Because ultimately it’s NOT how advanced is your camera but how well it fits your needs that makes the difference in every day’s usage. How long will it take to Sony for improving the NEX-7 firmware? How long will it take to Sony for producing NEX-7 with 16MP model?
4) The NEX system lacks of LENSES and LENSES and LENSES. You cannot upgrade your cameras every 6 months and don’t produce any lenses … too bad for Sony! Lenses are what makes a system complete!
5) How long will it take for Sony to implement a phase-detect AF in a NEX camera? The 1st one who will make this, will be the winner in mirrorless market! Nikon already have one but with the CX format’s CMOS …
This is why they are losing money. It’s NOT the Thai flood, Nikon had it too but they get to increase their %s in the market shares.
Just my 2 cents.
I read “because of the Thailand food”. I got scared for a minute, I just had that for lunch.
lol!
If Sony makes all the NEX lenses avaialble I promise to buy one more this year.
If they have 16-50/2.8 or alike up the sleeve I will buy it too.
2012 should be good for them. I already got NEX-7, EA2 and 50/1.8. What more can they hope for 🙂
I think NEX-7 is gaining ground. Couple more lenses avaialble in stores will sure make things cunt.
Sony should do some campaigning about NEX-7 too.
Olympus did so much recently about their new camera and most poeple believe NEX-7 is better – even friends that both the Olympus thing….
ohh and do not forget the new NEX-7 firmware – please add ultra high quality video – 100MBs selectable 24p, 30p, 50p, 60p. I am sure NEX-7 can knock GH2 & 5D fans straight out of their socks.
I think there is very little Sony need to do to make NEX-7 a cult camera. Like build religion around it. Get followers and open the church of NEX. They need to go the apple way – clients should worship them
but Sony must do crazy wild things
If D600 comes with weather seal and excellent ISO performance, I will be considering buying it even though I have the A900 and 11 Sony lenses already.
It’s highly unlikely that you’ll get low cost and weather sealing, but you never know.
I see a lot of wild theories here. Look at the graph, the 4th quarter is always the weakest. Could it be that there’s less light, people go out less, people buy less cameras? Look for a simple answer first.
Nikon looks to have exceeded exectations and have had a bumper year!
Very fast forum to criticize the N and C brands, however, at least Nikon is in pretty good shape, not 20% down. No matter who’s building what for them, they are keeping the bucks…
If sony just kept its factory in my country this wouldn’t happen but shit happens.