– – – – – [UDPATE: Fujifilm corrected the typo. Read more here.] – – – – –
Fuji launched a special Photokina site here. The strange thing, spotted by mirrorlessrumors here, is that Fuji says they will show Photokina visitors “high image quality with a full size sensor“.
Now type “full size sensor” in google, and look at the results…. you’ll get plenty of articles about Full Frame sensors.
Why should Fujifilm call an APS-C sensor “full size“? It would obviously be mistaken for a “Full Frame” sensor. If they mean APS-C, then I recommend Fuji to change the wording. And if they do not mean APS-C, then I have some work to do now.
NOTE: Fuji Manager Mr. Kawahara said back in December that XF lenses would NOT be compatible with full frame camera. “If we launch the full frame body we have to launch the full frame lens too. So it is not good for X-series user.”
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101 Responses
I suspect it refers to an apsc sensor which delivers full frame quality. However, one can dream of a 35mm or even medium format sensor
then they’d better write: “LIKE a full size sensor” and not “WITH a full size sensor.
Since when is a “Full frame” full size? Ever heard of Large format for example?
try to google “full size sensor”
Patrick, that’s bogus. What you get on a Google search is the product of so many variables (including a raft of algorithms intended to catch typos) that the results are totally useless for the kind of analysis you are hinting at.
what I want to say is that it’s common use that full size sensor indicates a full frame sensor. That’s all.
Sure, there is Medium Format or bigger… but normally photographers understand 35mm, when you say “full size sensor”.
Agreed…
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Full-frame_digital_SLR
APS-C does not deliver FF quality. The laws of physics apply to Fujfilm no matter what the rabid drooling fan boys say.
Would it be possible, to put an APS-C XF-Lens on a Full Size Fuji Body? I don’t think, that it would work this way…
Full frame sensor covered by the existing primes. I’m just dreaming.
Agree, 23 1.4 35 1.4 56 1.2 will be a dream
The XF35 covers Full Frame. I tried it with Kipon focal reducer and it showed no vignetting. See the result here:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-KhMpDRNlV0STJJQzV4MHc3OThiSWxOUGNjQkNrZm5RZTc0/edit?usp=sharing
IMO typical Fuji marketing speak, define a category, place yourself in it, create some buzz on the internet. My guess is that the Autofocus will be the fastest ever in the full size category :-).
Good point, especially as “full frame” is also crop (not crap). “Full frame” is only convention. It came into existence just by historical chance, introduced for still photography by Oskar Barnack in 1913, and derived from cinema film strips. Funnily, when he then presented his ur-Leica for photography, people laughed about such a small photo film format. Actually, Oskar Barnack himself called it “Kleinbildformat” (German for “small picture format”). Now, some 100 years later the same kind of ignoramuses laugh about APS-C.
I’ve used 35mm for decades and now use full frame – and quite a few other digital formats. I certainly know the various implications of different formats but, I’ve never quite understood the hype around the just historically defined full frame as THE standard one has to go for.
Excellent points (although the 36x24mm film format was introduced by Simplex.) “Back in the day” the well-off photo enthusiast might shoot with a Bolex, a Contax, a Rolleiflex, and a Linhof, and nobody considered one of these formats any “fuller” than the others.
Something to consider: the X-Pro already is as big as a Leica M, which has a larger sensor. So if Fuji were crazy enough to build a 36x24mm “nostalgia format” camera, it probably would be as big as a G690 (remember those?)
FF should be the camera whichever is replacing X100S. Just my imagination since long.
Thats what I am saying for quitte some time. A FF X100s replacement will only need a new (FF) lens for that camera. It’s that or a X-Pro2 with higher resolution sensor…
Yes, that wouldn’t need the huge effort and investment of a new lens line-up, indeed.
Rico just made a comment in the Fujirumors FB page that it is a typo. Not sure where this will all go. But I hope he posts here.
Quoting Rico here “Sadly, it’s a typo. What they meant was “with a medium format size sensor”. I will present it in my First Look on Tuesday, though.”
Wouldn’t “medium format size” be just as confusing? I would expect a 4.5×6 or bigger sensor. Although medium format is far from limited to the 120-film of course.
Nah… 6×45 sensors are super expensive. It’s probably more like a 4×33 like Pentax does.
Still fits into the (very wide) definition of Medium Format
There are no 645 CMOS sensors… The only larger than FF CMOS sensor is the Sony one which is 44×33 and which is being used in the Phase One IQ250, the Hasselblad H5D-50c and the Pentax 645Z.
I know that, I’m just saying that whatever they say it will be confusing. Except of course for using the exact specification.
but there is a CCD sensor 54×40
I hope so. I have 645zi medium format fixed zoom lens film camera and I love it. I hope they do a medium format x100s type camera and a 645zi digital camera.
Not a typo but maybe have people start thinking that even 35mm is cropped, and not “Full size”. Plays well with that Zack Arias video.
Just does not make sense =/
Being at the Touch and Try Corner of Fujifilm booth it has to mean existing cameras and lenses and it would be very strange they would offer an unexpected full frame sensor camera coming out of nowhere and ready to be “experienced” by visitors when some days ago the rumor was they would announce the X-Pro2…to be launch by this time next year.
1.5 is full sized to FUJIFILM that works for me. I would like a MF? smiler to one of the 645 framed camera but not as big.
They should have a new Full Frame system and call it Y-System and a Medium format system and call it Z-System
Expect a medium format fixed lens camera. Kind of a big brother for the X100s and a replacement for the 670.
Probably with a 433 sensor like the one in the Pentax 645Z?
Just guessing but that would be awesome!
Yesssss!
I tried to see how the XF35mm covers the full frame area.
Obviously is not a scientific experiment: I attached the lens to the Fuji X-T1 with the Kipon Baveyes focal reducer.
As expected, occurred the well-known effect of a macro setup.
Less obvious is that the results showed absolutely NO VIGNETTING.
That means that for sure this lens covers the full frame.
I also tried the XF18mm, that showed not a lot more vignetting than normal use.
Let see at OOC JPG here:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-KhMpDRNlV0STJJQzV4MHc3OThiSWxOUGNjQkNrZm5RZTc0/edit?usp=sharing
This is the shot taken with XF35 with Kipon focal reducer.
I always wondered why people assume the term full size is the exclusive domain of 135 format. I mean what would medium format be? Super size? And large format? Extra value meal?
Biggie Size!
(I used to work at Wendy’s.)
Full Frame Fuji?
Is that sloppy copywriting, bad translation, deceptive marketing, or a leak that Fuji is going full frame?
Fuji has spent years showing that a cropped XTrans sensor can compete with the best FF has to offer. It would be very odd if they suddenly concede that FF is necessary (although Canon, Nikon and Sony all provide both formats). Will Fuji develop a whole new line of cameras and lenses? They’ve certainly proven that they can execute: the X system rolled out a great lens lineup in short order, although there are still a few key items to ship.
And where does this leave the organic sensor, which was supposed to deliver almost unimaginable leaps in quality to existing APSC (and smaller) systems?
An RX1R style large sensor compact almost makes sense, since the fixed lens would not need a new mount and lens lineup. An X100ff? X200? would appeal to many, including me, and would imply that the XPro coming “next year” is indeed FF. This follows the X system playbook.
But if Fuji is going all in on incremental advances with FF, it would seem to indicate that the sci if magic promised by the organic sensor may never materialize. That’s too bad. It would have been a hard reset for the entire industry with Fuji (and Panasonic) flipping the switch.
Reading below, Rico said it was a typo.
Something as critical as sensor size is an odd place for a typo. 🙂 You’d expect extra proof reading on specs like that, the price, etc. But if it is actually LARGER than full frame, that could be pretty exciting, and not indicative of organic progress.
Depends on who did the translations
If it was a typo, what they intended to say originally?
Maybe they just mean a relatively large sensor for such small cameras and this is just carelessness.
It’s not a typo. Full size simply doesn’t mean full frame. Different concept. That’s all. Full size means good size. And what is good size? Any size!
Or just sloppy copy editing.
No, FF is not necessary. And no, Fuji is not conceding anything. This reads like marketing. They have stated many times recently they are not doing FF.
We have been waiting for the organic sensor for now 9 years. It has become the joke of digital photography.
Last year’s joint press release with Panasonic seemed to imply that they’d cleared the hurdles and were ready to ramp up. Photokina seems like the time and place to reveal. We’ll see.
Here we go again…>yawn<……guess we'll find out when it's released….
“high image quality with a full size sensor” I think it just means that
their sensor has IQ up to the FF level, just that, anything more I think
it would be overreading the “inbetweens”. Even more when we already know that XF lenses are only for APS-C and for FF, they would necessarily need a new lens line up.
I think “full size” refers to what they see as their main competition, micro four thirds. It could refer to the new 24MP sensor as well which would further separate it from the 16MP competition. I would hate to see them stop development of APS cameras and lenses by devoting all their R&D money to a physically larger line of cameras and lenses. Looks like a new marketing meme to me.
Its an X-Pro2 with FF sensor folks!
No it’s not, folks.
Maybe it’s square crop, so you can do portrait or landscape without turning the camera. Hey, stranger things have happened. If won’t be 35mm “full frame”.
fuji usually use their word “full size sensor” (i.e. APSC) to compared with micro four thirds sensor
Sony RX-like camera??
Please let this be the fixed-lens medium format camera!
Yes! A fixed lens medium format camera with an hybrid finder. Keep it simple, keep it afordable, like the Sigma Merrills but key is a very high quality viewfinder
Well, I’m thinking “full size sensor” does, in fact, refer to what they consider full size, APS-C, in a poorly worded attempt to separate from the new X30 with the smaller sensor. Because English is not their native language we always have to take wording with a grain of salt.
I still cannot believe that Fuji would spend precious R&D money on an entirely new system built around a “full frame sensor”. To me, it just doesn’t make sense.
I can believe they are developing a really full frame, medium format system. It seems that medium format is gaining some legs lately.
LOL!! Absolutely hilarious. Fujifilm already makes a medium format digital camera for Hasselblad. They are more than capable for making multiple formats. It’s hilarious watching those who are so desperate to make sure that Fujifilm doesn’t make a FF camera because the gear slobbing fan boys will just stampede towards it. Absolutely hilarious.
It’s hilarious reading your comments. Your opinions are so comical.
Thanks. The Fuji knob slobbers need to be called out, every time. They are disgusting to the core.
YOU are disgusting to the core.
Ratt Mouse with his usual dose of misanthropy. Luckily we have you to tell us what the correct attitude towards photography should be. Thank you for not giving up on us.
I just bought the xt1, 56mm and 23mm which both equivalent to 35mm format, if they are really planning to release a full frame camera then i am doomed.
absolutely doomed! your xt1 will fall apart, photos you have taken will delete themselves, and any other fuji camera will from now on only take crappy pics!
*endofsarcasm* and *stopbeingridiculousand spendsometimetakingphotosinstead*
You don’t understand, of course everybody wants a full frame rather than a crop sensor but i still chose fuji because they made us believe their cameras and lenses can still perform like the quality of a full frame cameras. If fuji will start making ff as their top of the line cameras then all fuji pro photographer including me will ofcourse will want to switch back to fullframe again, and that means switching to a new system.
I have an X-T1 and a fullframe and the X-T1 still gets used a lot more. The camera has magic inside of it and that’s not going to change if another camera comes around.
It’s an amazing camera and you should be happy with it 🙂
Not a fullframe dslr but a full frame mirrorless just like sony is making now. i didnt say im not happy with my system right now, imagine if they put a ff sensor in the xt1 body, bigger sensor = more light and better dof right? Of course you will want it over the old xt1 with smaller sensor. And we alrady knew how amazing the xt1 camera is, thats why we switched from big dslrs right?. But nevermind. If fuji will make this come true, ok ill just go with the flow.
does your xt1 take good photos?
can u live with apsc? if yes, then enjoy your xt1, if not why did u buy one in the 1st place (not even going to the discussion what a mirrorless ff offers that u dont get now…)?
sony would have been ur better bet then, as even if they are begind the curve with lenses, they would be far ahead of a fuji ff…
so your being doomed either doesnt make sense or u made the wrong buying decision independent of the fuji ff roadmap
Not everybody 🙂
I’d much rather stick with the equipment you’ve got already. Smaller, lighter and absolutely fantastic camera/lenses. What more d’you really need?
There’s plenty of FF options for the people that want it, right? Personally, I don’t miss my Nikon FX, in any way, after switching to Fuji.
Fully agree Johan 🙂
Missing links for happiness in the camera world??
What is needed is a Fleica…a Fuji FF Leica knockoff for $3000 and a 6mp FF Hassy back for $3000 for my SWC.
Oh…it would be nice of the FF Hassy back had a more ‘grain like’ structure than pixels.
But you gave the right reply. There is nothing wrong with the current crop of Fuji cams that is holding anyone back from shooting fantastic shots. But for my ‘tough lighting’ work I have to shoot my Fuji’s like a Leica or I wont get the shot the majority of the time.
If you consider being doomed every time something new comes up, I have bad news… You are doomed!
Its always fine for me when new higher end camera comes up but switching to a new system is really a problem.
Off course, but even if Fuji starts a second ILC line-up it doesn’t mean they will give up the APS-C range. I am pretty sure that whatever happens at the Photokina there will be a X-T2 and a X-E3 one day. So your investment is still valuable.
If you want to sell it, let me know
Everything can be called full size. It’s like saying right size or my size or good size. It doesn’t have to mean 35mm full frame! Calm down, folks. It’s just APC-S.
I think fujis page may means that full sensor reproduction on tv or paper maximun maginification with at least 42mp apsc sized organic sensor search in dpreview organicsensor about 1year ago
I was actually waiting to upgrade from my NEX-6 and I never liked the ergonomics of the Sony A7 series and was hoping that Fuji would do something. This looks like a great news to me if I should believe it. If the camera looks like the X-Pro series, I will definitely buy it even if it is priced above 3K$!
They are not doing FF. They have stated this several times recently. I think this is their new marketing term to counter any FF perceptions vs APS-C.
Full size sensor and “XF lenses”… there isn’t much of a question but wish as you will this means APS-C… lol
I have a lot of love for Fuji as I still use a Fuji GW690. Their glass is fantastic and to be fair so is the sensor tech they’ve been using lately but nonetheless for photographers/artists like me, we’re looking for a bit more quality to print big with detail. Fuji should make a digital medium format but like many of the other big manufacturers they will drip feed us a little bit more till they do!
So with this said I think it’s their way of confusing us and getting us excited for nothing:)
If the Fuji X-100T is full frame than that’s the sign that the X-pro2 will be (at least) Full Frame too ! Personally I hope Fuji won’t do that.
Fuji must stay (become ?) the APS-C KING !
I don’t think that’s a sign. A full frame line of lenses is quite a commitment.
Did Fuji commit ?
I would like to see them go full frame without an AA filter, though I am not sure we will see any real improvements without a 1:1 sensor. I took street shots with both my X-Pro 1 and my DP Merrill last night, and the DP Merrill images are far better at base ISO.
Japanese-to-English translations frequently lose something in the conversion. It’s likely by “full size” they simply mean THEIR full size X cameras (in other words, larger than the entry level Fuji X cameras).
Fuji is not doing full frame anytime soon.
i was originally going to register my doubt of what Fuji might define as “full size”, but I just looked at the press release for the X100s. In this, they claim the X-Trans CMOS gives results that are “rivaling a full-size sensor”. http://www.fujifilmusa.com/products/digital_cameras/x/fujifilm_x100s/
Exactly, I don’t get when people arguing about sensor sizes, today in photography full size means 24×36.
Please don’t come with the bullshit what it meant in the last century, we never used the term until the first FF digital cameras came out.
I hope will be true!
Is there any Japanese original to this? I’d like to read the original Japanese instead of that strange translation…
One way to read that sentence is that at the Touch and Try corner, you get to play with images from a high IQ “full size” sensor (FF? MF?) AND also high res images taken with the new bodies that fit the XF lenses.
hope it is a MF sensor. what is the point for Fuji, who does not have any legacy 35mm base system to release a so-called FF camera system?
I think they should go even bigger then the 35mm , maybe the 645 format?
I don’t get the point….Fuji makes a number of cameras with full size sensors. There is a difference between full size and compact size, and they would never refer to a “Full Frame” as a “Full Size”
Whatever….You got your page clicks
They actually call “Full Frame” as “Full Size”
This is a quote from they website:
“The Fujifilm X100s offers you ultimate image quality. Eliminating the optical low pass filter and employing the same original pixel array as the X-Pro1 are the keys to resolution rivaling a full-size sensor.”
then they are stupid, FF is FF not Full size.
maybe typo?
what does “full size sensor” mean?
they meant 35mm FF?
I would like to see a full frame X-Pro 2, which would be a far better option than the Sony A7r, assuming they introduce it with a set of high-quality fast primes. While I still like my X-Pro 1, I would like to see a considerable bump in image quality, and that would likely happen with full frame 24mp or 36mp sensor without an AA filter. Without an AA filter, 24mp would likely be sufficient.
So the rumored Fuji GX680 digital is going to become real. Can’t wait to see how Canon and Nikon react. (for you people interpreting “full size” as “full frame” keep dreaming). The digital MF equivalent world is about to open up!
And the page at http://www.fujifilm.com/photokina2014/index.html was already corrected “as of August 25. The original sentence included a typographical error.”
Finally!