These are the first images of the new GX8 and FZ300 cameras that Panasonic will announce at 5-6am London time on July 16!
GX8 images and specs via Digicameinfo.
– 20 Megapixel sensor
– Dual IS (on sensor and on lens working together)
– 2.36 million dot organic EL tilting EVF
– Dust and water resistant
– magnesium alloy body
– 4K Photo · 4K Video
– Free Angle 1.04 million dot organic EL monitor
– Wi-Fi, NFC, QR code connection
– Continuous shooting 8 frames / sec in the AF tracking
– Body color is black and silver
FZ300 images and specs via Digicameinfo.
– 12.1MP MOS sensor
– New Venus Engine
– Lens 25-600mm F2.8.24 times zoom with 35mm equivalent
– 1cm macro
– 4K photo. 4K video (30p). Full HD 60p
– Highest sensitivity ISO6400
– EVF organic EL. 1.44 million dots. Magnification 0.7 times
– 3 inches 1.04 million dot LCD monitor. Bali angle. Touch panel
– Camera RAW development
– Adopt a new type of linear motor in AF motor
– 3.5 times the AF speed FZ200. Ultra high-speed AF
– DFD correspondence
– 5-axis Hybrid OIS +
– Wi-Fi built-in. Possible connection to the smartphone-tablet. QR code connection
– The size of 131.6 x 91.5 x 117.1mm
– Weight 691 g
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371 Responses
That GX8 looks like a real winner.
I just hope that ramping the sensor up to 20 MP doesn’t come with some bad side effects, as far as low light performance goes. But, overall this looks like a worthy successor to the GX7.
It doesn’t say if it’s a new generation sensor. Let’s hope it’s not just 16Mp tech scaled up to 20MP!
Yeah…not possible since they are both the same physical size.
??? I’m saying that it might a 20Mp sensor with the technology of the 16MP, not that it is differently sized.
Agreed .
Let’s wait for reviews to prove it .
Still got pretty of time to decide it .
Looking at the ergonomics first:
– EVF is bigger (and not 16:9 anymore), but still protrudes a lot
– I’m not a big fan of stacked dials
– Focus switcher looks a little hard to reach in the middle
– AF/AE Lock is in an odd position over the thumb rest. Why not keep it on the focus switcher and put Fn over the thumb rest?
– I am indifferent to the shutter release position.
It’s still interesting to see the exposure compensation in a separate dial. I haven’t seen that approach elsewhere… The front dial, if it is one, appears quite hard to manipulate, especially if it was cold and you wore gloves
I don’t see a flash….?
Fully articulated screen! Woohoo.
It’s pretty weird looking. I’m sure it will grow on me though.
True, the flash is gone. Hopefully Panasonic will bundle a small one that can bounce, like Oly did.
Wow, gx8 might not be the prettiest camera but I am glad to see the grip improved. The specs also sound to fulfill all my needs. If it doesn’t screw up in reviews for some reason my gh2 might Be finally replaced.
I like that GX8. Probably waaaay too rich for my blood but there’s always hope for prices coming down someday. I think it would look better with a 20 f/1.7 on there.
20MP sensor! I wonder if Olympus will have a 20MP coming out.
Of course they will, sooner or later.
hmmmmmmm……..
Nice looking but I was hoping for a less protruding fixed EVF and retaining the tilt LCD over full articulation…
Thumb rest area seems awkward…
No mic/headphone input from what I can see.
There’s no image showing the inputs / outputs, so what you can see is of little worth in this respect.
I agree it is not the best pictures to check that. I hope there will be, at least, a mic input.
I think I can detect rubber seals down the left side (in front of the screen swivel mechanism) so most like in that area if included. After all, the connectors have to go somewhere, & that won’t be in the base.
If form follows function this camera looks like more of an all-rounder, as it has a grip that can better balance with a lot of the GREAT larger pieces of glass that the system is now offering.
The camera has a more decisive look to it or identity (if-you-will). I like it.
Mmmm, that GX8 is looking very nice on first impressions. Hopefully that bigger grip is housing a nice long-life battery like the GH3/GH4, even better would be the same battery. Interesting to see the combined OIS and IBIS, with 4K capability, maybe a hint as to what we might get in the GH5.
What about AF? DFD seems logical…
The only thing that worries me about the GX8 is the price….
The specs list has “– DFD correspondence”, so from a translation I assume that it does have DFD AF.
And they still haven’t moved that DISP button! Panasonic – why do you not listen to your customers? It’s the reason I sold my GX7 – just kept constantly pressing it by mistake. Shame.
Sorry, but this is the most hilarious reason to sell a camera I’ve ever heard…
You can take this as a compliment…
The FZ300 looks promising f2.8, 25-600mm (a huge range !) looks like it also has a built in ND wheel. Only reservation is it’s Highest ISO is 6,400 I wonder why this is with such a low MP count 12.1?
It is the same FZ200 lens.
Fugly
GX8!! :)) 20MP dream come true!
http://blogs-images.forbes.com/neilversel/files/2014/09/futurama-shut-up-and-take-my-money-card-34.jpg
Oh Yeaaaaaaaah!
Senzor on FZ300 is 1″ or smaller ??
Is this model change for fz1000 or is lower class/rang camera ?
Should be lower class / range.
1/2.3″ (6.17 x 4.55 mm) sensor. Much smaller than 1″ (13.2 x 8.8 mm)
It is FZ200 successor. So lower class of course.
Will be interested to see what IQ comes out of that 20MP sensor. Cameras are like computers and anything else digital. It’s hard to keep up with the rate of change and the fast pace of new product roll outs.
I wonder when Panasonic will start putting IBIS in their top of the line GH cameras. It’s a feature that a lot of videophiles would appreciate when they use legacy and cine-oriented specialty lenses.
Just traded in my GX-7 for an Olympus EM-1. I liked the GX-7 a lot, a very nice camera. The EM-1 is a pretty convincing package though. It feels like home. For once, I put an emphasis on handling and ergonomics and the EM-1 won out.
The lens appears more centrally mounted so balance should be improved. Eager to see a size comparison with GX7.
GX8 is looking good. GX7 is my favourite always-on-me stills camera, and I use it as my 2nd camera alongside my GH4 for professional video work. But 20mp… that has me a little worried. The DR and lowlight sensitivity is for me the single weak point of the m43 cameras and they’ve crammed even more pixels in. It’s like having 80mp on full frame sensor. Eeek! Look forward to seeing footage and stills after Thursday…
I’m also curious about how much IQ will benefit from added pixels.
Unfortunately a side swiveling lcd, pity.
For the rest it looks quite solid.
Wonder if your fingers will get stuck when using the nocticron + gx8.
I quite like the side swivelling lcd, although I guess not as good for discreet shooting with the big screen sticking out.
Do you mean getting fingers stuck between lens and GX7? How do you like your nocticron?
Haha! Sorry! I don’t have a noctocron. And I also don’t have a gx7. But the noctocron looks quite wide near the base. And gx8 has a more protruding grip, so the combination seems like it might get a bit narrow there.
I am keeping the Oly 45mm 1.8 by the way.
And yes, I know some people appreciate a swivel lcd, others would rather just have a tilting one. Or one that can do both.
That depends on sensor tech, a modern 20mpx is better or at least equal to an old 16mpx. I wonder is there is no AA filter, it make a huge difference in resolution. And is it a dial around the shutter ? But if you want best iso, it’s not a µ4/3 you need. µ4/3 is good enough for 1600iso, or even 3200 for Flickr in full hd size.
Awesome if the 20mp sensor is legit. I’ve been waiting for something new since the GH4 – and every M43 since has really offered no reason to add another body.
Everyone is different, but I prefer the EVF to the side over a hump in the middle. Also curious about the internal stabilization.
+1
Yun buy?
Yun too busy having a stroke.
Or yelling at screen.
It’s wise to wait for reviews before jump to any conclusion .
I’ll only upgrade if it really have significant improvement in the imaging dept .
Btw , the design of the GX8 is a bit disappointed , not my taste & I pretty sure
the a7000 can beat it easily in design as more desirable RF camera .
???
What is wrong with the looks? If anything it looks more like a NEX than any of the previous Panasonic designs.
Less good looking due to that grip , too prominent
redefining the basic of a RF camera .
Of course , in return for more comfortable handling .
Yes, those big grips on these small cameras like gx7/8 and e-m1 make sense when you often use a 40-150 2.8, but with a compact prime two fingers would already be enough.
What if the a7000 will be an A7-like body?
We have to wait & see .
The NEX7 is the most handsome RF camera ever created beside the
GX1 .
I’m pretty sure it can make it again .
Actually, as you probably know, these aren’t really RF cameras. So when you talk about the most handsome RF, I’d think about Yashica GSN, Contax II, Voigtlander Bessa R2A…
It’s not a real rangefinder unless it’s 20 feet long and made by Barr and Stroud or Zeiss.
https://mathscinotes.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/800px-graf_spee_telc3a9metro_01.jpg
Ahahahahaha. Well done.
But the NEX 7 has a giant grip, too…
This GX8 looks better already than any NEX ever did.
Surely not?!
New sensor, Yun buy!
Still hope, that the pictures are not true. It looks like a nex6 and the nice gx7 rangefinder style is blown away by an ordinary sony-G5-mix. However, the new sensor is very welcome, maybe for a e-p7 (that possibly never Comes).
the pictures are way to refined to be fake.
The image style is pretty well identical to every other Panasonic product shot. They’re real IMO.
Does how it looks really matter, or is it how the images it produces look that’s important? I wonder about people’s priorities sometimes…..
Both.
you’re delusional if u dont think looks and functionality make a difference if someone buys something… dont give that “oh its the results that should only counts” if thats the case this camera would be a box w/ no design.
dear jesus, gx8 look so great.
I agree, the GX8 looks absolutely killer. Love the looks of it, and the specs look great too.
GX8 looking good. Hoping for:
Effective IBIS for video.
Decent DR/ISO performance despite increased MP.
Pro video bit rate options.
Full readout 4K.
NTSC/PAL switchable, so not limited to 25p in Europe.
120fps FHD.
Master Pedestal to match to GH4.
V log? (Sony put SLog into sub $1000 RX100iv so why not)
Improved video AF (PDAF?)
The great new is it’s dust and water resistant wow !!
Looks like a step up from the GX7 with improved IS, swivel screen, larger 3:2 viewfinder, 4K I only hope it isn’t priced too high and is affordable but expect price of $999 body only. Good to see IS is retained but hoped body would be kept LX100 size with loss of flash but with good ISO 3200 for indoors not much need for a small flash anyway. Addition of weather sealed is a plus but Pany does need another less expensive model to compete with A6000 and A7000 which are plastic bodied not magnesium.
Its price is a bit of a dilemma because it still has to place beneath the GH4. It offers a couple of neat features for photographers, but the GH4 has a lot more to offer to video shooters.
Not possible, no flash ???
Very possible. No pop-up flash. Maybe there will be one small external flash bundled.
It’s not the end of the world.
Ahhhh, that is the one disappointing thing.
Everything else looks amazing. A perfect laundry list of specs for this class of camera, just like the A7r II was for FF.
A big upgrade for the GX7!!!!
The bigger grip and shutter button on top is a very good ergonomic upgrade for the bigger lenses.
The swivel screen is nice!
The bigger viewfinder!
4K video and photo!
Dust and water resistant!
New 20mp sensor, I’m very curious about the improvements!
I use the ETC a lot on my GX7 for birding and macro. With a 16mp sensor the ETC delivers a 8mp file (2x crop).
With a 20mp sensor the ETC delivers a 10mp file. Thats nice!
My two cents: 1. I wish the EVF did not protrude that much – hated that on my old GX7; 2. AE lock button is not in a good spot to use it as a back focus button, and the FN button at the focus lever is too far from the thumb rest to make it comfortable to use as a back focus button; 3. lacking built in flash is good only if the supplied one will be higher GN and with rotating head like the EM-5II; 4. Larger grip is a good thing, especially with larger lenses; 5. exposure dial seems redundant to me, since there are already two dials; 6. Fully articulated screen is cool. Love it on my E-M5II. 7. AFF – AFC – MF lever is cool too. Better than just having AF and MF like on the GX7.
And I really really hope the mechanical shutter sound is improved (make it as quiet as the Olympus cameras), and the EVF at least as good as the E-M1 and E-M5II. Can’t wait to see if the maybe new 20MB sensor can give better results in terms of resolution and dynamic range. GX7 wasn’t the best from that standpoint, looking considerably less sharp than E-M1.
I think the evf protude more than the GX7 evf.
I think everything protudes more than the GX7. This looks as big as the GH4.
It looks like the EVF eyepiece can be pushed in when not in use. Hard to tell from the picture though.
I think that’s not the case, but it would be cool!
The only part of the EVF that protrudes is the eyecup – same as every other m43 camera.
That eyecup looks COMFY. And the protrusion is welcome so my schnoze doesn’t smear on the touchscreen.
This is my new camera. Thank you. Bye. 🙂
Holy crap, Panasonic throwing everything and the kitchen sink in, yet again.
Wow!
I would feel like an idiot for upgrading my GX7…but maybe in a couple years. Yikes. Gotta resist the GAS.
I’ve made the mistake of buying the GX7 first day it was released (in Germany). I should have waited half a year at least – that took 200€ of the price.
Also bought (in Germany) at the launch. No regrets.
That is the magic of the GX7 .
Me too collected from the first batch .
But this GX8 , need to wait to see the imaging as the current GX7
was still very usable to me .
Yes, the GX7 was a big “Finally!” moment because it had a new sensor and ticked all the boxes for corner EVF and GF1 lovers. Since it’s still a very capable camera, my excitement for the GX8 is not as strong,
Or maybe you should sell your GX7 as soon as possible, before its value drops too much…
Nah, there’s no way it’s worth selling my GX7 for the price I’d get today. I am not yet willing to lost $700 on a camera for a few extra features. Maybe in a year or few…
It have to depend on the imaging outcome delivered by this newer GX8 .
1 stop better than the current GX7 ?
I’ll not rushing to it till proper reviews done on it .
Has tiltable EVF.
Oh, you’ve looked at the images, too?
If it’s got decent IBIS for video – Panasonic take my money now
My bet is that IBIS will be below Olympus performance on its own, but better when combined with Panasonic lenses (to tempt you to buy the lenses ;-)).
Yeah it’s below the Olympus performance but still very good!
LIke all the features!!!! 🙂
I’m always so amused by those who seem unable to take good photos without IBIS. Are you all suffering from palsy, or do you not understand that at shutter speeds faster than 1 / effective focal length IS doesn’t make any difference, and that at slow shutter speeds IBIS only helps if your subject is perfectly still? Do you only shoot still lifes in unlit barns and coal mines?
I’m always amused by people who can’t comprehend that properly engineered IS always results in a greater number of sharp photos. Portraits in low light can be frozen at 1/30 if your subject is posing and you have IS. With no IS, you need to be at 1/100 with a portrait lens and cranking up the ISO, not the best approach with smaller sensors. It’s not rocket science, Fred/Freddie/whoever.
For video can get more useable shots in situations without a gimbal/tripod etc. With a rolling shutter like on GX8 any camera movement produces nasty jello wobble in footage, hence the need to stabilise.
I agree, don’t care about IBIS for stills.
I’ve never cared about IBIS either. I mainly shoot my kids and macro shots of bugs. So I almost always have to shoot 1/160 or faster anyway.
P.s Don’t you think, that the 12-35 2.8 Looks quite small at it from the front. Hust Google gx7 with this lens and the lens Looks bigger/cam looks smaller. it really FT5 rumour? No photoshop?
GX8 looks awesome!
It’s hard to tell exactly but EVF looks much bigger. Great news.
This direction makes sense for the GX line as the GM5 is now covering the small end of thing with a still impressive feature list. The GX8 needed to add some bells and whistles to keep in functionally above the GM5. I’m talking really about Weathersealing, articulated display, big grip, and great EVF (hopefully)
I used to think Oly made the better M43 cameras, but in the last 2 or so year I think Panasonic have really stollen the show.
The GX series already has the most important thing over the GM series… a size that makes it useable.
I’m pretty sure I’m gonna upgrade to this from my epl5, my only question would be, will my ‘oly FL-600R flash’ work in it entirety with the panosonic body?, or will I loose the wireless-remote-control functions?? its not a deal breaker, but its always nice to factor in all this stuff… looks like a great cam though, I do hope the ISO is a bit better than the current gen of sensors, but that would be tough with that increase in mega-pixels right?
your wireless remote functions should work perfectly on this.
ace!
The wireless functionality of that flash works perfectly on my GH4, so I am expecting the same on the GX8.
Looks good and all, but will IBIS work full time so that the viewfinder image is stabilized with either non-OIS lenses and/or legacy glass? That would be killer for me . . .
Why wouldn’t it if there is the option to select it like the Olympus bodies.
Looks good, but it’s all about the IQ. No flash, and will kind of miss the click dial.
Viewfinder looks bigger and more ergonomic, as does the LVF button which I use often.
Curious to see Panasonic’s comments on ISO performance when they release it thursday.
PS – sad they’re still selling that purple 12-35 f/2.8. They need to re skin that thing.
I’ll miss the click dial, too, but apparently the button on the top of the dial isn’t a Lock, but instead a toggle button (at least that’s the way it is on the G7), so it’s just like the click dial used to be.
Even better than a click dial.
If so that sounds useful. I use that click wheel like a habit though.
Yep. That goofy purple color really bugs me too.
Guys,
it greatly lags behind G7 in terms of egonomics.
Just 3 Fn buttons? Kidding? From which one piece should be compulsory the AF/AE lock?! This is the level of G5, folks.
And no dial for drive modes, especially for the 3 types of 4K photo. It’s a shame!
Otherwise it’s really a great camera, the EVF is obviously bigger, the sensor and the IBIS better and finally the LCD can be rotated. Nice. But still doesn’t seem to be a heavy duty tool.
Different people have different preferences in terms of form factor.
I greatly prefer the side EVF, myself. You could say that the inability to tilt the EVF on the G7 is a compromise ergonomically..
This also has an exposure compensation dial, which some may find more useful than a drive mode dial. Especially since you can already access AF-C from the AF toggle lever.
I have to admit that the tilting EVF is a great feature, it would be welcomed on g7 too.
No really, I have no idea why people want a dedicated EC dial instead of a multi-function dial. If you are in A, S, or P mode, a multifunction dial can act exactly like a dedicated EC dial. In M mode, that second dial can be your shutter or Aperture. Unless the shutter button also has a dial on it, then the cam would have 2 multi-function dials already making my point moot.
This camera has two command dials plus the EC dial, though.
Ah, well then my point is moot.
No mention of sensor size in the specs because, after all, that’s nothing most people care about.
???
You’re on “4/3″ rumours. It’s an M4/3 camera. It has a 4/3” sensor. It’s 17.3x13mm.
You’re welcome.
Maybe multi-aspect? 😀
… And the FZ300 has a 1/2.3″ (6.17 x 4.55 mm) sensor as its predecessor.
Side-hinged screen. Adios, Panasonic! Well, not quite yet, I’ll run my GX7 until it dies, then go through my Olympus bodies until they all die. By then there will be no more tilt screens available in m4/3 and I’ll move on to whatever’s available. Meanwhile, I have a few lenses I can get rid of and start the process of exiting the system. Looks like Fuji or Sony will be the destination, apparently they realize that stills photography remains the most important thing to many of us.
Cannot understand a single word. Do you really consider the tilting screen better than the swiveling one?
It’s written in perfect English, do you speak the language? Obviously a tilting screen is preferred for street and travel, how could you think otherwise? Birds and video must be your thing. Nothing against that, enjoy. Many of us will be departing, more of your kind will be arriving and you should be less flabbergasted in the near future.
Please explain your reasoning because it is not so obvious to me. I take only stills with cameras, no video and I prefer a swivel to a tilt.
Oh and please refrain from a derogatory tone such as “your kind” or questioning my English.
Thanks
Same. I went from a G6 to a GX7, and I really miss the fully articulated screen. I’m ecstatic to see it on the GX8.
It’s unfortunate to find out though, that I, like you, am not a real photographer like Duke. Maybe I’m not using the tilt screen correctly.
I’ll try if Duke don’t mind, but it’s not even that easy. In case you could place the screen anywhere you wanted:
Where would you place the screen if you hold the camera horizontally right in front of you?
Where would you place the screen if the camera is horizontally in a lower position?
And horizontally above your head?
In these cases i don’t see a reason to move it sideways, and i also really wouldn’t want to. It just doesn’t make sense.
For me, and i guess some others, there aren’t really any other ways to take pictures.
That’s helpful, thanks.
For your first example of holding the camera horizontally right in front of me, I would expect the screen to be directly behind the camera so I wouldn’t have to look to the side. However, in this situation, the screen in its “docked” position already provides this.
For your second example, I frequently take shots from a low perspective. In this situation I can see how a tilting screen would seem more intuitive. But for me at least, I use the screen in the swivel position for these shots and it requires no adjustment. The swivel also allows easier framing for those shots of slightly distorted skyscrapers from a low perspective.
The same can be said for your third example.
I think i know what you mean with ‘slightly distorted skyscrapers from a low perspective’ (sounds cool by the way); I’ll think about that one. I do of course understand swiveling is way more suitable in certain situations, but I’d trade in this convenience for being able to tilt in other situations.
By the way, i never imagined there could be an internet war between the tilters and the swivelers.
I see it more as a battle between those who insist their way is the One True Way and its shining light should be apparent to all you dirty heretics, and those who would prefer to make their own minds up. I may have someone in mind.
It’s not even close to the most ridiculous argument I’ve seen on the internet. 😀
Decent people continue to be polite to each other, even if they disagree.
Does “slightly distorted skyscrapers” refer to converging verticals caused by aiming the camera up?
Battle or war: well, let’s not start arguing about which word is most fitting here.
I think the slightly distorting is not the (surely also visible) converging lines, but the way he is trying to not exactly put the building straight in the middle of the picture. Yes, I am actually just guessing this is what he meant. I could make a bit of a lame joke now, like: the swivel screen automatically will make you look a bit to the left side of the camera, which already makes it hard to get a straight shot anyway, so a swivel screen will actually help to get slightly distorted skyscrapers pictures. If FeO3 is still reading: sorry! Just kidding! Really!
Thanks BdV. Nice to see a civilised response. 🙂
I guess your point is that while a flippy screen can be angled up and down, it has to stick out to the side to do so and gets in the way somewhat.
Am I on the right track?
Yes. Exactly. It doesn’t double the width of the camera. And it’s a simple and fast thumb push to tilt it up or down.
He apparently can’t engage in a discussion and make a case without insults. I too far prefer a fully articulating display…for stills photography. Apparently portrait oriented photography is lost on “his kind”.
That sounds a bit like you are slightly insulting me too now…
😉
It’s better if you try both out and see for yourself.
It is not obvious. This discussion wouldn’t be happening if it were.
I can see why it’s preferred for street photography, if you’re trying to be disceet (but you didn’t say that), but for travel? Perhaps you’re using the word in a way that I wouldn’t.
I won’t buy a camera without a fully articulated screen and I rarely shoot video or portrait.
I do find myself holding the camera out horizontally at arms length,
using the screen to compose the shot. Sometimes you just can’t stand
where you need to to get the shot.
By the way, your English is far from perfect. Have you ever seen perfect English on the internet? My teachers would have had you (and me) shot, back in the day.
Weak sauce, Irritant. You need a course in sematics or just more human interaction. Meaning is the most important thing in a debate, not grammar. Which, by the way, you criticize mine but avoid telling me where the mistakes are in my responses that make my English so far, far from perfect.
Sorry for hurting your feelings about not liking the exact same things you do. You’re going to have to learn to deal with disagreement if you want to make it through this life, kid.
Nice straw man argument there.
I gave an explanation as to why I prefer a flippy screen. You have yet to provide an explanation as to why you prefer a tilt screen, other than “it’s obvious”. So, where is your much vaunted meaning?
My English is far from perfect, but I didn’t claim it was. I even implied the opposite. You claimed perfect English, not me.
I thought your antagonistic post required an antagonistic response, and I has happy to oblige.
My feelings are not hurt, in fact I’m amused – especially by the way you called me kid. That’s usually a fair indication that the person who said it is defensive about their youth.
I genuinely want to know why you think a tilt screen is superior for photography. Please tell us.
“My feelings are not hurt, in fact I’m amused – especially by the way you
called me kid. That’s usually a fair indication that the person who
said it is defensive about their youth.”
That’s exactly what I thought too. I only ever get called “kid” by people that are half my age. It is amusing.
I like tilting much better than swiveling. It’s not a deal breaker but I definitely prefer tilt.
Photographers do, videographers don’t.
You need to pick the side, are you a photographer or a videographer?
Disagree.
Photographers who only shoot in landscape orientation might agree with you.
I shoot portrait shots (though frequently of landscape scenes – how about that?) from low angles, so I prefer the swivelling screen.
Very understandable. I hardly ever shoot in portrait orientation, so yes, i prefer the tilting screens. Very much.
Panasonic should have two versions of the GX8. One with a tilting screen and one with a fully-articulated.
Why didn’t y’all say the same thing about the EM5 MkII?
Panasonic is Damned if they did, Damned if they didn’t.
Nah, just damned. ?
Hmm… shooting portrait mode on a tripod… Is that about photographing or videographing?
I’m a photographer and I prefer the swivel. So it isn’t so simple and is stupid to try and break it down into groups that way. Can. It is a personal preference, nothing more. I like the Swivel ever since I first experienced it on any camera. Do very little video.
Tilting is better for street photography. If your subject notices you you’re just looking down. If you’ve got a swivel screen you can’t be inconspicuous that way.
Are you really sure you cannot do this with swiveling screen?
Super weird to see so many people lament the switch from tilt to swivel. Usually you only hear people moaning about no-swivel.
Completely agree with Duke…though fully articulated does have it’s place… for many of us, we prefer a tilt screen for a “stills” camera. At least Panasonic had one camera option with tilt but now I too will look elsewhere..
They still have one model with a tilt screen – the GF7.
I know, it hardly compares. Can I interest you in an Olympus instead?
sure…I’m watching prices drop on e-m1 before they change it like the e-m5II. But I “prefer” the Pany menus….oh nooo 😉
You some time yet – the next OM-D is supposed to be the E-M10ii.
And the lack of articulating screens is one reason I don’t own any Olympus bodies. Don’t you ever shoot verticals?
Yeah, Fred, I shoot verticals. But I take it you mean waist-level or low verticals. Almost never. When I shoot waist-level with the LCD tilted I’m usually in 1:1 aspect ratio. On those rare occasions I need a rectangular, waist-level vertical I do the obvious, drop to one knee. God forbid. What a precious bunch.
Duke…why are you such a haughty irritant?
What about the tilting viewfinder? No oher camera has this feature, best of both options in the one body.
Very good point.
I could sell you my dad’s old Minolta Dimage 5, that has a tilting EFV too.
It’s 112k resolution is truly horrible!
At least when you got bored, you could count the pixels.
Good one! Lol
Odd that the GX8’s function buttons aren’t individually labeled but all have “Fn”. It would be odd to have 3 buttons dedicated to the same, custom function.
They obvioulsy do not refer to the same function. The numbering is mainly used to distinguish them in documentation, so its absence is still a bit weird.
That’s why I’m not entirely convinced this is real, or at least a 100% production model. Every other Panasonic camera has had Fn1 through what, Fn7? And all of a sudden there is no number? Even if there’s a graphical representation when you’re setting function button settings in a menu, that seems a bit bizarre.
Great specs. Unfortunately the design is a triumph of form over function.
AE/AF lock button is in an awkward spot, and the Fn button in the middle of the AF mode switch is too far to reach comfortably if used as an AF button.
And there’s that resurgent relic of a bygone age: the exposure compensation dial. This is a silly throwback feature that needs to die. EC on modern cameras is a feature we’ve implemented perfectly for many years by simply turning the front multi-purpose dial. It’s worked this way on all cameras I’ve used since 2003. A dedicated EC dial is superfluous and wastes valuable real estate, especially on small cameras where space is at a premium.
I hate the implementation of exposure compensation on my GM5. I love the dial. An option for EC in the quick menu would be good enough, but I don’t shoot in program modes and hate the slow access to compensation settings in that camera. I see no valuable real estate lost to the concentric dial.
Exposure Compensation dial is good to me imho, because I hate how GX7 not responding when you changed mode and spinning multipurpose dial several times before it registers. I like AF/AE and fn button ala GX7 position too, in GX8 it seems too far to be able doing one handed operation. Also that power switch, why they changed that??
I like the position of the GX8’s power switch. On my GH2 it has a tendency to get snagged on things and turn the camera on when I put it in a bag, and sometimes I haven’t noticed until I have a dead battery.
I agree about the about the AF/AE button. If there was a way to swap it with the Qmenu button it would be perfect.
I also like the exposure compensation dial. On the GH2 you have to press the multipurpose dial to switch modes and I sometimes end up adjusting the wrong thing. Also with the EC dial markings it just makes it more intuitive to be aware of the current setting.
If you’re in manual mode, one dial controls aperture and the other controls shutter. At that point an EC dial controls ISO up or down from where you’ve set it. Since the dial in question is under a different one, it’s not really taking up real estate. Let’s do an ISO dial instead like the Canon G compacts. If you’re in manual mode and adjusting the ISO with the dial, the effect is identical to having just an EC dial.
m4/3 is about to dominate the industry. Already has the best lenses, and now a new sensor is here? It’s prime time for m4/3 now.
I doubt that. DSLRs still dominate and will continue for a while. Sony currently leads the mirrorless market. This new 20MP sensor will help m43 along, but Sony isn’t standing still. They’ve been very agressive with their designs and I think will continue to increase their share of the mirrorless market.
I like the m4/3 format and own some gear but I can’t help but think of the story of the Titanic house band continuing to play on as the Titanic sank to the ocean floor. I think the whole industry is in a world of hurt right now and I can’t imagine the word domination being an accurate term to describe anything in the industry right now. But I really hope it all gets back on track and none of the players get forced out.
People said the same when the GX7 was announced. Truth is that the market is super-.fragmented, Canon and Nikon still rule bor historical reasons, many people are too invested to switch systems, and another large chunk doesn’t care because they use cell-phones, which further corners the market. Even Sony who are arguably innovating more than even some companies combined, cannot dominate the industry.
Any word on pricing?
Could it be 999-1099 USD/EUR body only?
I paid 999 € for the GX7, so I assume it will be at least that, if not a little more – especially since the G7 is also more expensive than the G6. Higher price is a mistake imo, but that’s what all companies are doing right now.
That would be great. But that would also imply Olympus was on crack when pricing out the $1100 E-M5ii.
They were!
Hahahahaha. Indeed.
please tell me it in another plain English that “Dual IS (on sensor and on lens working together) “; work together means “work simultaneously”?(both work at the same time?)
They likely work at the same time… much like Sony’s implementation on the A7ii.
Just imagine the possibility of making your own choice, tilt or swivel? Would it really be such a big cost in producing two lines and letting the customers make their choice? I do stills, I´ve never even tried the videofunctions. Producing swivels only means they will never see my money. That must be really bad business in the long run.
I prefer the swivel screen for stills as well…
Why you hate it so much?
Do people demand to know why you love the swivel screen? Why does it matter? It’s called preference. It’s neither right or wrong. Stop trying to a bully.
He was clearly trolling:
“Producing swivels only means they will never see my money. That must be really bad business in the long run.”
And I am free to ask questions…. The bully here is you….
I only said one thing, I wish the customers had a choice and that it probably would make better profit in producing cameras in two lines. I´m certainly not trolling nor am I bullying anyone. I dont hate swivels, they just doesn´t do the job for me. And I wish that both You and me could buy the version of the camera that we prefer.
You’re not trolling. You had an opinion that wasn’t in line with the Cult of Swivel. Punishment was in order…
Thanks Duke! Strange thing this swivell/tilt beef. “Cult of swivel” made my day, thanks again Duke! 🙂 If you´re an experienced shooter you know the pros and cons and how you like to handle your camera in different situations. Not that much to argue about really. It´s about respecting one anothers choices and preferences. This “cult” seems to lack a bit of that.
Hey A.L., you’re too nice for this place. I hope you read the link to the TOP article I posted above to FeO3, it has some great thoughts on the topic. The last word for me.
Haha, well I like it nice. Great article. Thumb´s on perspective!
Calm down. It’s a valid question, since a swivel screen can tilt, too! So you get more functionality!
Sorry, I’m on the defensive since stating my preference for tilt screens. It’s clear that the swivel screen crowd is making no effort to understand why some don’t want this feature. It’s like a religion or something, very strange.
Like a religion? You are saying you won’t buy because it has a swivel screen, despite all other great features it might have. That is religious conviction.
You’re confused. I’m saying I won’t buy it, the Cult of Swivel is demanding to know why. I’m not demanding to know why anyone likes the swivel. I know why, and I don’t care. I care only that Panasonic is no longer an option for me as I love my GX7 and have been looking forward to the GX8 for a long time.
“It’s clear that the swivel screen crowd is making no effort to understand why some don’t want this feature.”
It’s funny you say this when myself and several others asked you to clarify why you think tilt is superior. I’d say that counts as effort. Oh and your response to these inquiries? Stating that it’s obvious that tilt screens are superior, insulting people’s command of the English language and calling people “precious” non-photographers.
You also contradict yourself below when you say, “I’m saying I won’t buy it, the Cult of Swivel is demanding to know why.”
That in itself is acknowledging that there is an effort being made to understand why you prefer tilt screens over swivel screens. Which is a direct contradiction to your statement that “the swivel screen crowd is making no effort to understand why some don’t want this feature.”
This is why I think tilt is superior. Hope this is clear enough for you, because I don’t think it can be written much more clearly. If you read it, maybe we can give it a rest, huh?
http://theonlinephotographer.typepad.com/the_online_photographer/2015/07/the-fauxliflex-chronicles.html
I guess you never shoot in portrait mode.
Full-articulation is perfect for that.
Then, close it against the body and use the EVF.
Rather than two models, I would go for a removable screen module included in the box. It would probably keep production costs lower.
Of course if you choose to buy the other version later, it costs a fortune!
Will have to wait until it’s released and people actually get their hands on it to know about ergonomics and overall performance but, assuming it includes DFD autofocus like the GH4 and G7, it looks like a great option. I am a little concerned about noise performance from squeezing 20 MP in a 4/3 sensor, but we’ll know about that soon enough, too. All else being equal, though, I’d rather have a lower noise 16 MP sensor than a 20MP one that matches the noise performance of current designs. In the real world, the difference between 16 and 20 MP is trivial.
I would’ve preferred a tilt screen. Folding out the screen for street photography would be too awkward. Still, a very nice looking camera, one that would be very enjoyable to use, if it’s anything like the GX7.
Panasonic out of the gate with a 20mp 43 sensor? Oh I know the fanboys are upset… Question is, will 20mp make the 43 sensor a noisy mess in low light?
Why did it take so long for someone to ask the big question?
With a moving sensor it has a smaller heatsink, but each pixel is getting less light and has to work harder. Even with two years of sensor development I’m skeptical about noise levels.
It’s a BSI sensor maybe….? Here’s hoping.
It would be nice if it’s BSI, but other comments in this thread (and the previous one) suggest that it’s not.
BSI gives a bigger improvement with smaller pixels. The photosites get smaller, but the connections which block the light don’t and they occupy a larger proportion of the sensor.
I don’t know at what point this becomes important, but the FZ300 needs it more badly than the GX8!
Will it do long exposures? GX8 I mean.
Do you mean more than 2 min. Bulb?
Should be 30 minutes at minimum (which it is on the Olympus bodies). The problem with some mirrorless cameras has been that the maximum long exposure times aren’t actually very long. Sony & Fuji are 60 minutes (at least the ones I’m aware of), but really you want to be able to go longer than that.
I agree and I hope the GX8 can do 60 min. like the GH4.
Yes, that’s what I mean. It was the reason I decided to go with E-M10 instead of GX7. Wondering if they did something about it, seeing how it has a new sensor.
Not beautiful, but the GX8 looks very functional. I would upgrade, but the question is if this new sensor delivers any more ISO/dynamic range performance than my 3-year-old-plus E-M5. I need more justification than a somewhat better EVF, a few more megapixels and slightly more manual control.
It’s incredibly unlikely that the GX8 will have a 20mp sensor. We already get diffraction at around f8. A higher pixel density would just make that worse.
Huh? Why?
The GX8 WILL have a 20mp sensor, or more accurately, it DOES have.
Your understanding of “incredibly unlikely” is a bit exaggerated. The camera is 20 mpx.
If it’s missing an AA-filter, that claws back about half a stop or so I believe. Although many m4/3 cameras already have weak stacks.
What I want here is a much thinner overall optical stack so vintage lenses work even better.
Diffraction relates to the F-stop and sensor size not the number of megapixels. Basically for the same depth of field all images will have the same diffraction regardless of whether you have 2mp or 100mp.
More megapixels means that the diffraction will be more noticeable because it is showing more detail in the first place but you will always gain by having more mp.
The only reason you won’t see the diffraction with 2mp is because the image will already be too blurry to notice it.
Yeah, the only people who are going to be bothered by diffraction at higher resolutions are those cropping (who will probably benefit from the increased resolution at wider apertures) and pixel peepers (who can safely be ignored) 🙂
How about the new lens? Any word yet, Admin?
That is what I am waiting for. I suspect it will be a pre-announcement like the Olympus PRO lenses last year, so we are not likely to see any leaks before the announcement on Thursday morning.
Splendid specs, exceeding expectation.
Very curious about who makes the sensor. If it’s Sony IMX269, besides the gain in resolution, don’t expect much improvement in IQ, since it’s not BSI and not stacked (as in A7RII).
20MP for M4/3 is probably not enough MP for a good use of BSI tech.
A7R II has pixel pitch about 4.5microns, RX100 IV has it at ~2.5 microns. If Sony sees improvement using BSI for these pitch sizes, I expect the same for 20MP for M43 that has pitch at ~3.2
That makes no sense. The 28mp sensor in the Samung NX1 has much bigger pixels than this sensor would and is BSI. Better yet, the A7RII is 42mp and has BSI. A m4/3 sensor is pretty much a quarter the area of a FF sensor, so if a 42mp FF sensor has BSI, even a 10mp 4/3 sensor would benefit.
I don’t think you can simply scale up or down MP and area just like that. I think the tech and the benefits might be different depending on the pixel density but still related to the area it has. So maybe the benefits of having it in a 20MP M4/3 sensor is not that great to worth using it and it would better on a 24MP or maybe they didn’t push the tech so hard because it’s M4/3, who knows?
See what Boston C said. The whole point of BSI is that it removes the wiring on the front side of the pixel. It should be irrelevant what size of sensor said pixels are incorporated into.
Besides, you actually might be able to simply scale up or down MP. The Canon 5Ds is 50.6 mp. The Canon 70D and 7D2 are both 20mp sensors with a 1.6x crop. Since that 1.6 crop is linear, and we need to look at area, you need to do 20mp x 1.6 x 1.6. And what number does that produce? 51.2. I’d say that’s pretty dang close, and suggests that it is a scaled-up version of Canon’s 20mp sensor.
So, with those two dedicated dials (with the especially useless mode dial), there’s one left for shutter/aperture/iso? Otherwise, looks great.
Well, I can’t wait to read the complaints of those who are not happy of the increase of megapickles: those who think 20 MP is too much and those who think it’s not enough.
There’s no organic sensor, some (Yun?) will be disappointed.. But there’s an organic EVF 🙂
Btw, I like it, it looks nice and I’d like to try it to see how it feels in hands. But I don’t need it.
Bend over. I’ll show you my megapickle.
Sorry. Very bad joke.
You couldn’t resist, could you?
No, I couldn’t. (sigh)
Mega?
He’ll think you’re giving him a tetanus shot.
?
Ouch
You are late for the party .
Due to unseen circumstances , Organic sensor is only ready for the debut of GX9 .
As for GX8 , I expect at least a full stop improvement in imaging over the current
GX7 otherwise I’ll skip it .
What party Yun? Do you mean here? No, there are too many crying kids 😉
It’s funny how this product is disappointing so many people, despite the fact that nobody here has already seen a single file from this camera, nor has held it in his hands to see how it feels when using it.
I’m most definitely not disappointed. I’m extremely excited. So far it’s everything I wanted – except I’m waiting to hear whether it has a 12 bit electronic shutter. My fingers are crossed.
The swivel LCD is a deal-breaker for me.
So, like with the Olympus EM5II, I won’t be upgrading my GX7. They (both Olympus and Panasonic) may be taking steps forward with each new iteration, but they took one giant step back with the swivel screen.
Why? Because of all the clamouring that takes place on this blog’s comment section about swivel screens?
Was it Steve Jobs that said that the customer doesn’t know what they want and it’s the job of the maker to show them the way!?
Olympus and Panasonic: is this showing us the way?
Jobs may have said it, but unlike many, I don’t think he was a deity. He certainly made his number of mis-steps 🙁
Not many in his later years.
He chose to seek alternative therapy for his cancer before using conventional medicine. His choice, but as mistakes go I call it a big one.
The penultimate mistake indeed.
Penultimate? What was the mistake he made AFTER that one?
🙂 well, on my Em5mark2 I love the swivel screen for the simple reason that I keep it closed..
Same here. It’s safe when closed. And it automatically turns off the EVF when opened. Perfect.
Swivel screen > no swivel screen.
One benefit of the swivel that I like is turning it in so you are compelled to use the viewfinder.
Really, you post is an exaggeration. Passing on these upgrades is understandable, but doing so because the screen rotates out, along with up and down is ridiculous. Get over yourself.
Superior in almost every way to a tilt only screen.
I much prefer the fully-articulated screen, and pardon me but I do know what I want, having used both.
That opinion applies to normal uage, and of course you’re free to disagree… But it’s not simply a matter of screen viewing. Panasonic has pioneered the feature of touchpad control using the swiveled-out screen while looking through the EVF. That is a significant new capability and it doesn:tt work very well if one cannot flip the screen out to free it up for touchpad use.
So, I don`tt believe this change was driven principally by perception of forum users` wants, but rather by a use-case that you may not have considered.
GX8 price can’t be above 1199€ (body only), right?
Likely .
But it would be safer if you have extra bulks for it .
New stuff always like that .
Everyone is entitled to chose whatever they want but why all this discussion of tilting versus fully swivel screen and trying to convince others they should follow your opinions? Seems to me if anyone has a camera with a good optical or EVF viewfinder they would use that when taking most pictures rather than using the rear LCD screen for viewing and framing as they were forced to do in the old point and shoot days otherwise not much point to go beyond getting a good compact. Most taking video with camcorder or camera prefer to use a swivel screen as easier to screen out unwanted back-light and also can be reversed for protection when traveling. Just my opinion and you are entitled to yours.
That was my thought exactly, but since the topic of this post is about two new cameras I thought it was useless to write it. +1
An articulated screen is great when shooting in portrait orientation on a tripod, like for macro. There are pros and cons to both styles.
…or without a tripod also. I’m a run n’ gun macro shooter. I really like being able to position my camera above, below, or even behind whatever critter I’m shooting in a branch or bush or whatever.
It’s funny how fanboys are putting spin on this camera, talking about something that’s really not the major point of this camera… “ahem”….
THIS IS THE FIRST MICRO FOUR THIRDS CAMERA WITH 20 MEGAPIXELS AND DUAL IMAGE STABILIZATION.
I think y’all should be talking about that. That, and price. Everthing else is secodary.
Some people are solely in here to attempt to downplay the camera, because it just put a Shadow over the EM5 MkII. Other’s, simply because it’s a Panasonic and how dare they! Don’t they make hair dryers?
Let’s get to the real points here, people. Panasonic just BROKE the 16mp barrier!
You need an 8MP jump to make any real difference in resolution. According to Thom Hogan, if I recall (apologies to TH if I’m misquoting). Usability, IMO, is the major point of this camera.
That’s true, but if the specs are accurate its still the first m43 camera in years to use a new sensor. I passed on the EM5II and every other m43 camera since the GH4 because they all use the same sensor. I’m hoping to see a bump in DR and improved video IQ over the GH4 more than another 4mp.
Sorry, it wasn’t Thom Hogan, it was Hulk Hogan…
http://www.pwmania.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/hulk-hogan.jpg
Thanks for clearing that up.
I am thinking that the real benefit may be in low light performance and in DR. The res was already fine at 16MP for all but the most hard core pixel peepers.
Everybody has a different take on primary and secondary wishes though.
I’m not trying to hear that… IT’S A WHOLE. NEW. SENSOR.
20MP, it’s probably Sony’s, there was a registration of a 20MP from Sony.
Dual IS means OIS+IBIS, right? Does it work in video? Does the IBIS work alone for non-OIS lenses?
Is that a swivel screen? If so, that’s a BIG plus since that’s very usable for video and most cameras don’t have.
I’m guessing that the sensor readout is fast enough to not rely on 4K crop. This camera should have at least the same feats as the FZ1000 for 4K.
Sony is having overheating issues with their A6000 successor, a camera that they were going to release earlier this year, I wonder how the two compair to each other.
The A6000 successor is supposed to have IBIS as well as internal 4K but it’s probably not weather sealed since there are no native APS-C E-mount lenses that are weather sealed, but
who knows, maybe Sony will keep counting on FE lenses as new lenses for APS-C as well.
Panasonic has a 16MP m43 sensor, so has Sony. Just because Sony offers a 20MP m43 sensor, doesn’t mean the GX8 features it.
Dual IS means IBIS works with OIS. In the GX7, the IBIS worked for non-OIS lens, and was turned off for OIS lenses.
Yes, that’s a swivel screen.
When I write “probably” that just means probably, which is equal to it doesn’t necessarily is, which is the same as ” doesn’t mean the GX8 features it”. And the likeness of being a Sony is because in this case it’s much better for Panasonic to buy it from Sony than spend a lot of money developing one if Sony already has it.
About the IBIS, I meant if the IBIS would work alone in video for non-OIS lenses, which the GX7 doesn’t. The whole point of having IBIS for Panasonic would be to make it work in video so people can put their adapters and be happy. And as Sony is already making it work with their FF and as Sony is investing heavily in video feats and 4K, having IBIS for the GH5 has turned into a must have.
So if Panasonic can make it work with the GX8, it would be a great sign for the GH5, the only other question would be if Panasonic would use this same 20MP sensor on the GH4 or if they have a brand new sensor specifically designed for the GH5. By what Panasonic did with the GH3 and GH4, Panasonic may not have the resources to make a exclusive sensor for the GH line up like they did before, but maybe the GH4’s success and Sony’s competition is a great incentive so they do so.
The biggest of all would be the said organic sensor but so far it doesn’t look likely and if so, can Panasonic wait until it’s ready? Or should Panasonic use the same 20MP or maybe a tweaked version of it? With Sony’s improvements with their sensor it would be nice to see a stacked BSI with copper wiring for the next GH camera, not just for improved DR and light sensitivity but also for less noise. It would also allow faster readouts, less rolling shutter and at least 1080p120fps slow motion. Multi-aspect-ratio would also be nice as well,
Or A GX style body that is DUST and Water resistant. I was considering an em-1, but now? This may be my camera. Smaller body, possibly better sensor, and dust/water! But, who am I kidding, anything will be better than my GX1.
Looks like an instant classic!
If the IBIS work in video and it’s good as least as the em5II, I will replace it asap
I’m afraid it is impossible that GX8 IBIS will be as good as the Olympus.
Yeah, cool machine!
too big
No flash? It’s not that I need it but still.
Looks like they sacrificed the built-in flash for a larger EVF and/or EC dial . . . that’s only a minor loss for me as all I needed was full time IBIS to want me to swap out my GX7 for the GX8.
The ergonomics look very good: -improved grip, more controls better thumb rest and fold out screen. Bigger viewfinder. If they fix all the software problems like no min shutter, WIFI and the old dodgy pano mode this will be a great cam. I have high hopes for the Sony sensor!
My doubts are IBIS does it work in video etc and is it now PDAF focus or still the not so good DFD. I also found the GX7 viefinder got caught on things as it sticks out a bit -but I guess that makes it easier to look through! Price estimate $900? with kit lens.
I’d guess it’s more like $1,000 without lens. But, I hope you’re right.
I’d say $1099-1199 body only…
I’m hoping $750-$850 for body.
UN_LIKELY, but you can always hope. =)
Will it come bundled with a flash like the GM5 ?
It will probably come with exactly the same flash as the GM5.
The GX8 finally, almost here – I am glad Panasonic has kept most things in place – although I do not see the scroll-wheel with the push which I love on the GX7 – I do like the idea of doubling up exposure comp and mode dial which makes perfect sense – I personally like to see a Flip LCD vs a Tilt as It can benefit in video work and when strong it protects the LCD – So happy with that – The other big big item is IS/IBIS – the rumor does not say much about this dual IS but does say on sensor IS – which I am assuming would be IBIS – if it does have a 3 axis or 5 axis IBIS I am sold 🙂 as I can use my many Olympus lenses – likewise I hope IS/IBIS works in video mode /4k – I am wondering if the sensor is a Sony sensor – the 20MP from the A5000 – does anyone know? I hope it is a Back Lit sensor for better low light performance – I also like that it is weather sealed and seems to have a bit sturdier dials – and the grip seems to be better – Still no answer on Mic In (probably not) – Seems Panasonic has done the right thing – kept the good stuff like IBIS etc – I hope it still has Touch LCD/Shutter – but improved it – 4K – IBIS with IS lens coordination – I am sure IBIS for video – weather sealing –
I think the GX7 looks better 🙂 but the GX8 is fine – nothing to complain about – vey functional and size is nice as I look at the GX7/8 as a great street shooter –
I hope low light performance has been improved – but happy with a bit more resolution given that lSO performance is at least same or better – I suspect price is $1099 body only – $1299 with kit lens
What do you mean “the 20MP from the A5000”?
The A5000 has an APS-C sensor, not a m43….
you are absolutely right – my mistake – it seems Sony has produced new sensors for M43 now – one is 20MP Exmor – so most like that i the one the GX8 has – wish it was an Exmor R sensor for better low light performance
Please read fully, don’t skim. Return. Discuss – if genuinely interested in understanding why the swivel screen, for some stills photographers, is a dealbreaker:
http://theonlinephotographer.typepad.com/the_online_photographer/2015/07/the-fauxliflex-chronicles.html
Swivel is Evil… in fact if you do the anagram of the word, the result is sw-evil….
Nailed it. I started as fan of swivel, but the M5 completely changed my mind. Tilt is much better suited to street photography. Waist, chest or overhead, tilt is much easier to use.
I might feel differently if I shot a lot of macro.
Thanks for reading. This article makes the case for tilt screen better than anything I’ve come across, and a bonus for lovers of Rolleiflex, Vivian Maier or street photography in general.
You might feel differently if you shot a lot of verticals. That said, tilt-only is easier & quicker to deploy (for horizontals).
Can’t you just swivel the screen so its facing up? Giving you the same view as if using a tilting screen?
Yes, that is what works for me.
This might be a problem for a kind of hidden cam fotographer trying to take pictures from the hip with the help of the screen. This is still possible with the swivel screen, but it’s a little bit easier to get cought. If this is the big problem, you might find much better spy solutions somewhere else.
This is not about spying. In fact, the author, apparently anticipating vile and baseless accusations like yours, addresses the issue. It’s a good articke, you should give it a shot if you think you can manage something longer than a TV Guide program description.
It´s not necessarily about stealth, though it works fine if you like it that way. To me it´s about favourable angle and perspective and to hold my camera in a lower position without strain and pain. I´m 50 plus now and my limbs are stiffening. I simply like to use my camera as an old Hasselblad. What I really wish for is an option to choose, tilt or swivel, that the producers will offer us two versions. Personally I´d like the screen tilting not only up/down but also to the right. Hinges on the right, not to the left. If possible. That would allow a fast and easy way for perfect portrait shooting without having to do all the folding. Makes it more compact. This is my point of view and I pay full respect for any other opinion. (Discussion is nice, beefing and hostile arguing is not.) And, by the way, that new Panasonic looks very very promising in oh so many ways! Guessing and wishing is fun but I´m really looking forward to read the coming Reviews!
Yes, hinges on the right would be best with your proposed two hinge design. I shoot too often in vertical orientation for a top hinge only design to work for me.
You would’ve saved everyone, including yourself a lot of grief if you had just responded to the initial inquiries with this link rather than the inflammatory accusations. Instead you instigated a fight with your comments and when people obliged, you played the victim card.
Anyway, I read the article. It was an interesting read that really espoused the merits of shooting from the hip, in particular to achieve more candid results and maintaining a certain dynamic in the relationship with your subject.
However, the article failed to mention any reason why a tilting screen is superior to a swivel screen for this purpose. In fact, the only reference the author makes to a swivel screen is to suggest it as a possibility for portrait shooters though with the caveat that it never worked well for the author. There is no further explanation given as to why it didn’t work.
I don’t think any of the “tilt screen” fans called it superior…rather a preference…big difference. Yet, many fans of fully articulated screens take offense for some reason. Like you can’t prefer a silver model to the black one…
My spin…fully articulated… great for protection, good macro, and vertical.
Yet a tilt screen keeps your image directly in front of you rather than to the left. You can solidly hold or zoom with your left hand without the awkwardness of the screen in your way. For these reasons (when tilting the screen) I just find it works better for me. I shoot more high or low than vertical and it just seems more secure and comfortable. We just like a choice, realizing articulating works better for some… and Panasonic changed that… but there are other choices.
I called it superior – for street photography. (I said travel, too, only because I consider it synonymous with street, which is not accurate.) I said it was obvious as to why, then refused to explain myself. Really, does anyone need to have it explained that you can deploy it quickly and the damn thing doesn’t stick out? You don’t. This refusal on my part to spell it out didn’t go over too well. Then I may have named called, the rest is unfortunate.
Rest assured I won’t be jumping in again after the official announcement. I think all that can possibly said about this subject has been said – one of the most pointless arguments in all of cameradom…
Had I known about the article sooner, I would have posted it.
My first post on this story was disrespectful to no one and some thin-skinned folks freaked out wondering how I couldn’t like the screen. Sarcasm was the appropriate response, I totally own it. I don’t have to explain my tastes. You want insulting, have a look at beerwish’s post below. WTF, how was that called for?
Great article! Thumb´s on perspective.
He does mention the weakness of flip-up screens: “verticals”
So the old rumor about Panasonic simplifying and merging their 4/3 lines was just an unfounded rumor? Or is it that they decided to change course at the 11th hour, given that all R&D for the new iterations were far ahead done already? I see the GX line as the fashionable alternative to the GH line, but this GX8 is not as good looking as the GX7. And isn’t that stacked mode/exposure compensation dials design highly detested by Canon GnX users?
Sony with new sensors for M43 – http://www.sony.net/Products/SC-HP/IS/sensor2/products/index.html
Seems like the sensor in the GX8 is a Sony sensor – If that is the case the bad news is that it is not an Exmor R sensor or Backlit sensor just a Exmor
What exmor sensor are in A7 series? in your link page, i see 24m and 36m exmor sensors too.
I do not see the new 42MP sensor in the A7r m2 in the list – list might not be updated yet – but that sensor has Backlit design to improve low light performance – which is great as it is quite dense – likewise the Samsung NX1 with 28MP also has Backlit design – for some time it was only the Sony 1 Inch sensor that had backlit design the Exmor R
And how do you “know” this? Since this linked list seems to be your universe, where is the 42MP sensor in the A7RII?
I just brought out that incidentally Sony has now produced a 20MP sensor for M43 – no one has presented a tech sheet of a new Panasonic 20MP sensor yet – and I said based on that “Seems” – I do not know for 100% sure – I believe that the sensor in FZ1000 is the Sony Exmor 1 inch sensor – same with the Canon G3X and G7X most likely use the Exmor R –
We will eventually find out 🙂 – Sony makes great sensors so not a bad thing to have a Sony sensor
Because that list is the sensors available to buy, for other manufacturers. The 12MP, new 1″ and 42MP are not available to other manufacturers (yet).
GX and G series got ugly
and got fat, and they are full of pimples…
Man, the Panasonic’ness just oozes off of these like there’s no tomorrow.
I like more the model of the GX7
looks wise Yes – but substance GX8 will be better
What is needed is a screen that is wifi or BT, and can be removed or snapped in to whichever position on the back or side of the camera, or held away,
I have both styles and I adapt !!
The latency would make it unusable in live view.
Looks like we have seen the sensor for the eventual EM1.2
If this has mic input, could be the perfect hybrid camera.
looking for,may it call hidden microphone jack!
wait for announcement day,if it is Video centric it must had mic input or optional mic(with accessories port)
my guess it does not have a Mic in – usually the Mic in is on the left side and the pic shows now cover/s there – the right side has the hinge for the LCD which Flips out so it would be silly to have the Mic In there right in front of the LCD when someone was in selfie mode – The LX100 does not have a Mic in and neither did the GX7 –
Seems Panasonic want folks to go for the GH4 and GF7 for more serious video –
I see the GX7 and GX8 primarily as a street shooter or stills shooter – rangefinder style –
Seems like everyone wants a flash built in and a mic in on every camera 🙂 but in reality how many end up buying a Lav Mic system that are not cheap or use their little pop up flash ?? – The GH4 is primarily aimed at video folks and has most all what they need – but it is also a lot larger – The GF7 is the budget version of it – so yes I would like to see a Mic in not that I would run out any get a decent Lav Mic system for $500 at least for only 1 mic 🙂 but I think sometimes we are asking for everything in every camera – like many complain that the tiny Sony RX100m4 does not have a Mic In – but how many would actually use a mic in for it ? my guess less then 2% – so for the manufactures to include is not always practical – I do think that the 4K Stills will be use more and more – I do on my LX100 and I am not missing the Mic in – as if I was serious about video I would have 2 GH4’s and a GF7
I wonder with the resolution increase will the 4k crop increase too or will there be full sensor readout?
Doubt full readout. Would expect similar to G7, a slightly less cropped readout, but not full.
no,RX100IV had 20mp but full readout 19.78MP that i guess 5.2K res and downscale to 4K output.
and this new sensor may do same.
There’s some conversation at Mu-43 forum estimating this camera is bigger than the a7ii. Man, if that’s true I don’t even know what to say. Looking at the renderings it’s looking big.
EM1 is bigger than A7 already, so nothing new there. GX8 will be a bit smaller than EM1, certainly not nearly as tall w/o the hump.
good point – I prefer EVF on the left vs middle hump – sometimes pain to put in bag with the hump – have the EM4 and EM1 both great cameras but that hump is annoying sometimes – but of course makes them better looking – but looks are not everything
A7 II or A7 are a good size – to small then no grip and not enough space to hold all the good stuff – and for cooling – the point is that A7/ii/r/rm2/s are all Full Frame – and lenses will be a lot larger and in most cases heavier and more expensive with very few exceptions – take for example the Sony 90mm compared to the Olympus 45 (x2) 90mm 🙂 or the Panasonic 25mm vs the Sony 50mm – I would not be concerned if the body was a bit larger or around the same size as the A7 II – more import to have the IBIS and 4K – I personally like the flip out LCD which takes a bit more but worth it to me – I have the A7 and the GX8 and I prefer to use the GX7 with the 35-100mm F2.8 over the A7 with the 70-200mm F4 🙂 but of course the A7 has some advantages in resolution of course etc but size and weight size the M43 is a nice compromise
Yes GX8 looks a good size, similar to GH4 in terms of handling, about the same a A7ii.
It doesn’t have the hump, but the body is a little taller across the full width.
Hopefully that means the EVF will be a 3:2 aspect ratio instead of the GX7’s 16:9. That would be a nice addition!
Yes, I certainly hope so. 16:9 on a camera optimized for stills was a bad design choice. The EVF in the G7 is quite nice, so I hope they’ll use that one.
More like 4:3. 2.36 million dots is 1024x768x3.
Maybe.
Anyway, 3:2 hits a happy medium between 4:3 stills and 16:9 video.
As long as it’s not 16:9 it’ll be an improvement!
Looking at a GH4 with the same lens (12-35/2.8), GX8 looks almost as big, but without the flash/EVF hump, and a smaller grip, and perhaps a bit thinner. It’s a lot bigger than GX7, the GX7 looks tiny on that lens.
GX8 looks a little bigger than A7ii, but without the A7’s ‘prism’ sticking up.
Looks like my old GX7 is my new compact camera.
The question is whether the GX8 weighs as much as the A7II. The A&II is halfway from the A71 to a DSLR.
Looks like Panasonic is positioning the GM series as premium, ultra-compact with lots of features, a spot that was previously held by the GX7. But I still think the GX8 is a tad too big.
“organic EL EVF” is a poor translation (by Google), it’s simply OLED EVF. Sounds like the same one used in GH4.
Not happy with the removal of the internal flash, which could be handy for outdoor fills.
Wondering if anyone make a very small, low profile external flash that could be left in place?
Olympus supply a little flash with their EM5 and the LX100 comes with a little flash – I never use my little LX100 flash so there will be some that would be willing to sell
Hope Panasonic engineers are smarter, the new swivel screen won’t interfere with the microphone jack/port, as it does for EM5 II:
https://keyassets.timeincuk.net/inspirewp/live/wp-content/uploads/sites/12/2015/02/microphone-600×400.jpg
This guy is definitely beefy! And the EVF seems huge. =)
I do not mind if it is a bit more beefy as long as it was due to a good IBIS – Sony had to make the A7r m2 and A7 II more beefy due to IBIS – also the EVF I am sure will be a whole lot nice – I think I miss the Push Scrool Dial – such a great idea as with a single push it was dual function – and the thumb is just always there – I would have kept it and moved the mode dial where it was but had the Mode dial doubled – mode dial/programmable dial – I think it will be close to the A7000 in features as not sure if the A7000 will be 5axis vs 3axis IBIS – so only if Panasonic will price it lower so Sony will not get all the sales – it should be bit cheaper as it is M43 vs APS-C –
I don’t mind either. Actually I prefer it, cause just got a cheap E-PM2 as the small camera. The GH4 is too big for my taste, the G7 is nice but not premium. I see the GX8 as the long awaited GH2 upgrade, as weird as it can sound.
Apparently they moved the push scroll dial to the top, like they did with the G7. The push function seems to be the middle button of that dial.
Huge viewfinders are nice!
And for the body size I actually prefer a little bit beefier build that’s good to grab. The true weight savings with MFT start to roll in with the lenses anyway.
Hope its enough to help Panny. Maybe the sensor will be backlit like the new Sony RII, that might help offset the higher megapixels that will hurt low light performance.
I wonder how pricing will be, my guess $1,200 but hope they can do better than that.
Hopefully $999 for the body, though I’m guessing the price will be pegged to the E-M5 ii.
More pixels equals more noice is a myth.
Oh god, what have they done ? I hate to be one of those guys but as a GX7 owner I have nothing but loathe towards this re-design. They didn’t need to change ANYTHING design-wise, the GX7 was pure ergonomic bliss, all they had to do was upgrade the insides such as sensor, IBIS and EVF, that’s it!
This is the result of Pany’s lazy internet market research around forums and comment boards, they chose to hear the vocal minority of G line users that were afraid of its demised and wanted to turn the GX line into its replacement, and now we’ve got this monstrosity. What need was there to change the design philosophy of the GX line ? Why need was there to enlarge the grip into DSLR-size ? What’s the reason behind moving the AE lock button so far left ? Why make it unnecessarily bigger ? Did we really need a swivel screen when there’s remote wifi control via phone ? Why redesign the dials ? why move the on/off switch ? God this is an awful and unnecessary redesign! All of these changes scream of internet pandering.
The GX7 was ergonomically perfect. The dials and on/off switch were in the right place at the right distance and of the right size, so was the AF/AE lock button for that matter, all at the reach of a finger. The flash although something debatable was at least something that differentiated the GX from similar cameras or at least placed it competitively. The grip was fine as it was, if they wanted to improve that aspect they only needed a deeper thumb rest. The screen articulation might be a matter of taste but in the end such a feature was made irrelevant due to NFC and remote phone usage (way more freedom than a built-in screen).
About the only good changes are the weather sealing, the new EVF and sensor (can’t tell if IBIS is any different, should’ve gone with 5 axis and be done), everything else was ruined. I like Pany, I love the GX line but new iteration is a step in the wrong direction, If you want bigger grip get a G or GH, if you want swivel screen ditto or better, use your phone; same goes for size, grip dial and whatnot, all of those work fine on a G/GH camera, the GX was about offering something different for those that wanted an option to the faux-DSLR, now it’s not. This new GX might as well be just another G camera without the hump.
I wish I could say I was hopeful that Olympus would offer a PEN with EVF as a direct competitor but Oly down right hates the PEN line or is at least willfully negligent. What a shame for m4/3, now we’re stuck with big grips
I have the GX7 and this seems like a perfect update to me? I guess not everyone can be happy.
Well I guess it depends on what features you appreciate from the GX7 and your reason to get one as opposed to a G or GH. I choose the GX7 precisely because it is not a G or GH camera, it offers a whole different ergonomic approach to mirrorless, as far away from a DSLR as possible, which IMO is the whole point of this system. This new camera moves a step closer to a G/GH/faux-DSLR camera than what any GX, PEN, Fuji XE or A6000 has, and on that note, seeing as Olympus is nowhere near to EVER offering a PEN with built-in EVF this move from Pany takes away some amount of diversity from this system, which IMO is its biggest asset.
The GX line was the ONLY line that offered a compact (no G/GH), full featured (no GM) RF-styled option with EVF in the whole m4/3 system, now it’s neither compact (got bigger), nor full featured (no flash, worse ergonomics) nor as RF-styled as before (DSLR grip). As I said, the biggest disappointment is that Olympus just won’t ever offer something similar either, just the same old same overpriced flagship PEN with add-on EVF.
To you. to me it was ergonomically a failure. Much much prefered the NEx6 and now the G7 or GH4. Its flawed egonomics (grip) was the main reason to dump it.
Yes the GX7 is a good looking camera – and I agree with what you are saying about 80% – I think the GX8 has a bit better grip so to me that is an improvement – I like the idea of doubling up in Comp and Mode dial – I do however miss the Push Scroll Wheel – such a great idea – as it operates as 2 dials in a sec –
The GX7 is a great street shooter – practical size and does not have a large hump which makes it a pain to pull and put in a small bag as the hump often snags on something –
I do like the idea of Flip LCD – practical for video work and also protects the LCD when not in use – My main concern is IBIS – does not sound it is a 5axis IBIS – but seems to be the old 3 axis but it now coordinates with the lens IS like in the Sony A7r m2 for example which is good so it should work in video – but remains to be seen –
No it does not look as nice but is not terrible and has many new improvements –
the question will be on cost – will it Cost more then the Sony A7000 ? the GX7 did cost more then the A6000 which was silly and made Sony runaway with sales
notice on specs,Why do not show type of sensor and no name image processor?
or all new!
Maybe because it’s clear that it is a 43 sized sensor, and that the image processor is some sort of Venus.
My guess it is the new 20mp Sony sensor for M43 – they recently showing that they now produce 2 sensors for M43 –
Panasonic will never publicly say they are using a Sony sensor no more then Canon and Nikon and Olympus or Fuji will admit they are using sensors they did not make –
Of course it is well accepted that Panasonic FZ1000 and the Canon G3X and G7X all use the 1 inch Sony Exmor R sensor etc –
So looking at the spec from Sony it is an Exmor sensor – notice not an Exmor R sensor so it is not a back lit sensor – which is a bummer – as backlit design will give a bit better low light performance – my guess 10-15% – Samsung makes one in APS-C and Sony in 1 inch and Full Frame – and I expect the A7000 will have Exmor R –
Ah 2 of my most looked forward features is on the GX8: IS and weatherproof. Nice work Panasonic. I’ll be keen to see how good the IS actually is, especially with Olympus lenses. Promising!
those 2 items also very high on my list – IS being the top one – or I should say IBIS –
the rumor is IS and it works with the IS in lens – So I assume it is like on the A7 M2 and A7r M2 – where there is IBIS and the IBIS works with the lens IS if the lens has IS – else one can turn of IBIS and just use the Lens IS but by default it IS and IBIS will work together – I sure hope this is the case –
my second home was that they just basically kept the body and dials in tact – which they have for the most part – I do like that that they improved the Grip also – and I like that they implemented a Flip LCD as it often is practical with video work and just great to protect the LCD when not in use – I am also happy they did not put the EVF in center and there for put a big hump like so many others – yes it might look better – but with the EVF flush with the body just makes it so easy to put in and out of bags – I constantly snag my A7 and EM5/Em1 when pulling out of camera bags and putting in –
I wish they had kept the in body scroll wheel with the push option –
I also hope that the price will not be higher then the Sony A7000 as has been the case between the A6000 and the GX7 where Sony just killed the GX7 sales due to lower price and a good product although I much more prefer to use my GX7s then my A6000 –
Agree with all your points Jon. I was initially worried Panny won’t even bother about IBIS in the GX8 because all their lenses have lens OIS. This makes it a little more difficult to use Olympus lenses handheld with my GM1 (and defeats the whole m43 system of inter-brand interoperability). If the GX8 works very well with Olympus lenses, then I’m sold and won’t look at the EM5 Mk2 anymore 🙂
Wow! That grotesque size! Then I can keep using my FF dslr as a walk around camera. Just hope put that sensor in a gm1 sized body. Then Im in!
Agreed. Had a D800E. DUmped it all recently for the 645Z Medium format cam, which is far superior for my shooting. Even the difference between the D7200 is not too big, so in the end this GX8 will be my walk around cam (in my case), butall DSLRsare too close to the Pentx (Ricoh) to be bothered with. Unless you haven’t got the money of course but you might aswell get a GX8. Video is of course far superior on the latter.
A DSLR will always be much deeper than a mirrorless (in the center), and also be higher (because the mount has a bigger diameter). I really don’t get the argument (which is in itself pretty old)
Grotesque size? Can i have some of whatever you’re smoking? It’s just a bit bigger than the GX7 and the GX7 isn’t exactly huge. Comparing to a FF DSLR is just stupid…
GX8 is larger then Olympus EM1 and Sony A7 FF
Wow Panasonic really grokks it – that GX8 is looking real good (and the FZ300 not bad either).
This is coming from a faithful Olympus PEN user and this camera looks like exactly what I want the EP6/7 to be, much more so than the GX7.
A beefy grip on a rangefinder-like body, built in EVF (vari angle is nice), weather sealed metal body, hybrid IS, real dials. Lacking flash is understandable, articulated LCD is not necessary for me, but I’m confident it will move around better than Oly’s tilt up down which I find so so.
Count me very interested, and Olympus, please do pay very close attention, if you want to sell any EP6/7
Oly is in the corner with the E-Px series … because the E-M5 series covers that range already, with more features. Without an EVF, the E-P is not as attractive, with an EVF it’s too similar to the E-M5. Oly really doesn’t have a distinguishing feature for the E-P5 – corner EVF as the only feature at that is not worth the development time. I predict no E-P6 in the next two years.
EM1 with 20MP sensor is probably coming soon.
So can we expect the 20MP GH5 at the Consumer Electronic Show this January?
What is the size of the sensor on the FZ300?