Sony A7ii Stabilization Test from Norberto Peña on Vimeo (Shot with the Canon EF 70-200 F/2.8L IS lens at 200mm)
Quick US A7II Stock note. Body only in Stock at [shoplink 32646 ebay]BestBuy (Click here)[/shoplink]. Kit version at [shoplink 32647 ebay]Adorama (Click here)[/shoplink].
We have a couple of new A7II reviews and image samples:
“While current Sony A7 owners may be groaning because of the quick refresh to their brand new camera, they can rest assured that the A7 Mk II is really nothing more than a further attempt to snatch up the professional market. This is evident in the small changes. As a current A7 owner though, I won’t be upgrading. I don’t really need image stabilization because I’m a very steady shooter and the autofocus performance of the A7 hasn’t made me scream when shooting–that’s a prize that is awarded to the A7r.
We applaud Sony for their innovation, but we believe that they should time their releases a bit better.“
Sony A7 II vs. Sony A6000 – Landscape Use by Admiringlight:
“I do think it’s clear that, for landscape use at least, the differences between full-frame and APS-C are not quite as big as is often made out to be. On the flip side, this test doesn’t take into account the other benefits of moving to a full-frame sensor: better noise control and better subject isolation with fast lenses, and the A7 II definitely does still have an advantage in image quality here. It’s just rather small.“
Real-world samples: Sony Alpha 7 II in Kauai (Dpreview).
–
USA/Canada A7II links:
Sony Alpha a7II (Body Only) for $1,698 at Amazon, BHphoto, Adorama, SonyStore and Sony Store Canada.
Sony Alpha a7II with FE 28-70mm OSS Lens for $1,998 at Amazon, BHphoto, Adorama, SonyStore.
Sony 70-300mm f/4.5-5.6 G SSM II Lens for $1,148 at BHphoto.
EU A7II links:
Sony Alpha a7II (Body Only) for 1.799 Euro at Sony Germany, Sony UK, Jessops UK, Sony France, Sony Italy, Sony Spain, Sony Austria, Sony Switzerland, Sony Netherland, Sony Belgium, Sony Portugal, Sony Sweden, Sony Finland, Sony Norway.
Sony Alpha a7II with FE 28-70mm OSS Lens for 2.099 Euro at Amazon Germany, Wex UK, Jessops UK, Verkkokauppa.
Asian/Australia A7II link:
Sony A7II at Sony Store Australia, Digitalrev and Amazon Japan.
A7II Gariz case:
You can get in [shoplink 32354 ebay]Black (Click here)[/shoplink], [shoplink 32396 ebay]Brown (Click here)[/shoplink], [shoplink 32355 ebay]Orange (Click here)[/shoplink] and [shoplink 32356 ebay]Camel (Click here)[/shoplink].
113 Responses
Hallelujah!
Glory to God!
Amen!
LOL @ reviewers stating the obvious…
The Admiringlight comparison is a joke. They compare a zoom lens to a prime lens, and even though it turns out the full frame zoom is sharper than the APS-C prime, they pretend there is no difference. This type of comparison is laughable at best.
The is comparison video is funny in the way that it shows a test run with Canon lens IS and Sony body IS switched on at the same time. This illustrates, that both systems work the same way. In this special case one system is eliminating the shake while the other system is eliminating the same shake from the already steady image. The outcome is the exactly same shake as you would have with no IS system at all.
> The outcome is the exactly same shake as you would have with no IS system at all.
Can’t say I agree. The first sequence without any IS shakes more than the one were both lens and body IS is on.
we see lens IS is more efficient than IBIS…then Manual Mode works better than Auto Mode for 3rd party lenses. But the difference between all OFF and all ON is very tiny… maybe because of the previous issue ( http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/small-bug-warning-on-the-a7ii-image-stabilization-can-and-will-be-fixed-by-sony-via-firmware-upgrade/)
Your link has a ) at the end 🙂
This one works:
http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/small-bug-warning-on-the-a7ii-image-stabilization-can-and-will-be-fixed-by-sony-via-firmware-upgrade
The difference between all off and all on may be small, I agree. But its there IMO.
Not sure if this has something to do with previous issue. Which my A7 II also suffers from, unfortunately.
None of this is going to affect your “art” anyway…
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/55135181 I hope you can tell him/her that lens IS is more efficient than IBIS.
Okay you might talk only about Sony a7 II but still. And that is like having 1680mm(!!!) on Sony!
> Real-world samples: Sony Alpha 7 II in Kauai (Dpreview).
The link her goes to: http://www.personal-view.com/talks/discussion/12205/personal-view-fotga-video-contest#Item_1
That doesn’t seem right 😉
http://www.dpreview.com/articles/6780790663/real-world-samples-sony-alpha-7-ii-in-kauai
Has anyone upgraded from the a7 to the a77ii? My first thought was ‘where do I sign’, but on reflection I’m not convinced that it’s worth the buy in. The going rate for a used a7 is about £650 and the a7ii is about £1500, so it’s set me back roughly the price of the 90/2.8…
EXACTLY
i’m sorry, it’s a sony = no value 🙂
well… after all… in time.. *almost* anything losts it’s value.. just sony is like nokia = new model each month… so if you’r going to wait more… 650 will be 450 in couple of months… and so on.
do you really wont to upgrade? …you’ll find a way 🙂
Thanks – I’m not convinced that ibis would actually let me capture images that I can’t get with my current setup. On the other hand the 90/2.8 definitely would… Looks like you’ve made the decision for me! (I can always pick up an a7ii when it comes down to a7 prices)
i can not agree more with you on this 🙂
The question to ask yourself: Is it about the images or about the camera?
If the images, nobody will be able to tell any difference, so save your money.
no uncompressed true raw colors? no party
compression is not a problem, there are plenty of algorithms for loss-less compression from which you purely benefit
That may be true, but Sony’s RAWs use a lossy compression that definitely hurts file quality when pushing the files hard.
Maybe it is time for a hacked firmware project similar to Pana or Canon ones, the numbers of Sony cameras has increased significantly in the last few years so there should be potential/enough enthusiasts
Yet you can push the A7S file far more than any other camera and actually see less degradation. Many generalizations are made on this issue, usually they’re made from a casual referenced observation rather than from participatory analysis.
True, I get a lot more out of my A7S files then I ever got out of the 5DIII raw. I was surprised to be honest. Havenot sold any gear yet, but not using any canikon for a while now.
You need to learn how to expose properly, and light properly. No shortcuts there.
You are a moron, obviously you know nothing about photography.
You are a fake, stop faking my name fake bob!
You are the fake here fake bob, stop abusing my name and go away sony shooter tom
Both of you are obviously fake morons! Stop abusing my name!
You are the only fake here ‘Bob’ so plss off!
Bob is right, Bob is the fake and bob and me are the real Bob!
I will tell my mother on you two!!
You mean three right? I hate to be ignored!
haha idiots…. gotto lovem
Your mom taught you your debating skills?
Finding more detail in the light and dark has nothing to do with exposure, it is that magical thing us photographers talk about when we use words like ‘dynamic range’.
Are you a photographer? Do you see yourself as an advanced one, too?
The good news is I don’t have to see myself as anything, my clients think I’m the best they know and pay me a lot of money. So who cares what flame bait you put in front of me, it is not going to change the reality. Are you a nerd that tries to be somebody by arguing about theoretical faults in arguments, but has no real life experience? Little gimp geek just out to make some useless point? Well if you are: go for it, the world is listening… maybe.
Review the sample shots and point out which ones are compromised by this “issue”
http://www.dpreview.com/galleries/reviewsamples/albums/sony-alpha-7-ii-in-hawaii
I don’t need to look at sample shots that haven’t been touched…it shows up when processing the images. As one who owns multiple mirrorless systems and reviews them (having shot with every major mirrorless camera release for the past 5 years), I have seen it first hand in my own images. It’s not a huge issue, and it wouldn’t keep me from shooting with my Sony cameras, but it is noticeable in situations where you’re making major exposure adjustments as well as in scenarios where you want to increase structure or local contrast. The Sony RAWs need a bit more care in those situations vs. the RAW files from other makers.
Post some examples if you’d be so kind.
I’m not a consumer as Sony would me to become. I love photography and mirrorless solution is my welcome with lenses of mine I love, too. But uncompressed RAW is a must, and I do not need to show samples, I do not like compromise and constraints, sorry. A good reason to reject back alphax sony cameras.
No; you’re not a consumer or a photographer, you’re just a troll regurgitating third hand misinformation. Problem is most people here are photographers, some are pros, and you’re not fooling anyone with your concern troll charade.
Most people here are corporate shills, or keyboard fauxtographers.
Really……… none here merely to share real-world shooting experience? Interesting mindset, thanks for your latent analysis!
Sharing experience? This is about selling junk, nothing else. You are probably on the same game, too.
Correct, I’m being paid $200 an hour to hit this keyboard – brilliantly deduced………
More like 2$ an hour, given your skills.
Brilliance personified, I do it because I love you…………
You are still being paid by the hour? They can only hire me by the day, $2500
Ming Thein posted an example on his A7ii review.
So this “issue” shows up in samples you’ve seen on many occasions but can’t produce now. Jordan, if I didn’t know any better I would think you’re full of $hit. As a matter of fact, I’m sure you’re full of $hit.
Or maybe I don’t have time to bring out both cameras within an hour to produce a fair and accurate test to show the differences. But go ahead and think so, I don’t care. I own Sony cameras, I own Fuji cameras, I own Micro 4/3 cameras..I use them all for their strengths in certain areas. The Sony sensors are superior in certain situations, but in pushing shadow details, banding shows up fairly early on the Sonys, and it doesn’t on the Fujis. My god people are frickin defensive about their cameras.
>My god people are frickin defensive about their cameras<
Not really, there are issues with all products, but you enthusiasts with a mere 5 years of hobby shooting appear here, throw something out into the ether acting like an authority and waltz off back into another forum and have the audacity to complain when you get peer-reviewed.
Wow, I didn’t know I’d been shooting for only 5 years I guess the other 10 must have vanished. I made a simple, very NOT outrageous claim (it’s quite well established that Sony uses 11-bit compressed RAWs), stating simply that I’ve seen the effects of such compression when really punishing the files, even noting that it doesn’t show up in most situations. And I’m expected to immediately spend large quantities of time putting together crops and cultivating samples because someone says “nuh-uh.” As one who’s written over 65 camera and lens reviews, owns three full mirrorless systems (to facilitate reviews) and has extensive experience with multiple brands and multiple cameras, I trust my experience. You don’t necessarily have to.
For those interested in a technical analysis of the RAW compression used by Sony, including a few examples showing the types of artifacts that can show up, there’s a good analysis here (not written by me): http://www.rawdigger.com/howtouse/sony-craw-arw2-posterization-detection
Your words no.
>(having shot with every major mirrorless camera release for the past 5 years)<
Now, note the reply to you (a few posts above this one) from Adobe Tech Support no less. Imagine how pointless it would be for me to go all the way over to the Fuji Forum and post that merely because I had nothing better to do. There maybe a life lesson for you here look how much time you have wasted with your assumed mastery of subject! Love J.
Well, mirrorless cameras have only been around for a bit longer than 5 years…it would be hard to shoot for longer than that with them. 😉 I shot with DSLRs for 7 years prior and film before that. I’m not trying to troll here. I love (and own) the a6000, and I really liked the A7II. I hated the controls and ergonomics of the NEX-7, though. In any case, I added a nice technical article to my post above for those who want more info.
No worries.
It’s a terrible technical article, it’s got as much bearing on actual shooting as the notes referenced from Adobe Tech Support that you are side-stepping!
Yes John, that group are like car salesmen, heavy on theory & specs, light on “driving skill.”
Its very easy to say ‘that’s terrible.’ What are the flaws, specifically? It’s one of many examples that show where compression occurs. Anyway, we’ve lost the thread here. If you don’t see it in your shooting don’t worry about it. I know its there and it doesn’t stop me from shooting good images with my Sony cameras. My comment has been blown pretty far out of proportion to begin with.
My original comment was simply intended to note that in my experience, in real world shooting, I have to be a bit more careful when I push my Sony files than I do with other cameras, due to artifacts that become visible during contrast enhancement. That’s it. That’s my experience. If it’s not your experience, then fine. The technical article shows the situations where it does occur..it’s not an imagined thing. If you don’t see it in your shooting and processing, then no big deal. It’s a minor point, but one that Sony could address pretty quickly by simply giving the option of using lossless compression or uncompressed RAW files, much like Nikon does with the same sensors.
As to the ‘Adobe tech support thing.’ What am I sidestepping? That has to do with X-Trans processing and detail, something that I’ve not made a single claim about in this thread. Yeah, X-Trans can cause artifacts (especially with Adobe conversion) in the right situations too. What about it? X-Trans artifacts are generally with fine detail in the green channel. It can be demosaiced correctly, but Adobe doesn’t do a good job there.
Where do we find your work online Jordan?
http://jsteelephotos.com
Interesting, you are a former Canon shooter. I noticed a huge difference in the flexibility of the A7R RAW’s over 5D3 RAW’s for my stills. That and it was time to take video seriously and a mirror has no place in a video workflow.
So Jesus, now let us see your work, and I don’t mean all creation or that mess you invented called ‘church’
What do you know about the church? Nearly as little as you do photography?
I know who you really are.
I like your galleries, and would like to see photos of all those other guys / trolls.
Where do we find your “work” online smart donkey?
Mirrorless are video-centric cameras, different beasts altogether. There’s a learning curve, they take some adaptation, but the benefits outweigh the current “annoyances.”
Wait, what? Since when does having a mirror or not make something video-centric or a different beast altogether? It’s simply a different method of previewing the final image.
You should spend a little time over on newsshooter.com and look at what and HOW the stills boys are evolving. You may get a few ideas for article number 66.
>As one who’s written over 65 camera and lens reviews, owns three full mirrorless systems (to facilitate reviews) and has extensive experience with multiple brands and multiple cameras, I trust my experience.<
As one with 30 years professional civilian and military staff photography experience my "extensive experience" tells me you guys spent too much time testing, writing and believing what other people assume to be issues. And please, stop quoting "The Lloyd Chambers Group" he's yet to figure out there's an issue over at Nikon even though all the D750's were pulled from supply. My word……
“My god people are frickin defensive about their cameras”
> The usual straw man refrain.
“I’m expected to immediately spend large quantities of time”
> Not at all. People called you out on your statement, that’s all.
“very NOT outrageous claim”
> Not outrageous, annoying. It’s been repeated to death here.
“technical analysis of the RAW compression used by Sony”
> Very technical! That’s still the same file everyone making this “very NOT outrageous claim” has been linking to for the past year.
“As one who’s written over 65 camera and lens reviews, owns three full mirrorless systems (to facilitate reviews) and has extensive experience with multiple brands and multiple cameras”
> That was completely unnecessary.
“I have to be a bit more careful when I push my Sony files than I do with other cameras”
> It’d be interesting to hear about those “other” cameras, I certainly hope you are not speaking about Fuji.
Since he’s quoting the usual sources, here’s what one oft quoted source, Lloyd Chambers says about the Fuji:
>The Fujifilm X images (all cameras) are lovely overall (see Fujifilm X review coverage), but 16 megapixels is entirely uninteresting for my work, even if one ignores that fact that real pixel level detail is not there due to the oddball sensor design.<
Leads to credibility. If the Fuji is acceptable to your eye yet you think the Sony compression isn’t what are you missing in your analytical methodology?
You should ask dad how long someone is actually doing something, he knows about people.
+1 Best comment I have seen on here in a looong time
Shame it is not true and presumptuous, even for Jesus.
You are not my peer, you are just a pointless shill.
This is SAR everybody here is full of $hit, smart people don’t come here to post.
Real-life examples based on actual comparative images showing this “effect” are scarce as Unicorn turds…..
My garden is full of unicorn turns, yes there is a single piece of corn in every turd.
https://forums.adobe.com/message/6505059#6505059
We respectfully suggest you actually loose more detail from the X-Trans ll than the Sony compressed RAW.
Isn’t it strange will all these people bemoaning Sony compression. But yet have not seen a single example of it being an issue.
I have certainly not seen it. I see no perceptual difference between the Nikon D800/D810 file and a Sony A7r file however you push them. None….nadda…zip…zero
Ming Thein discussed it, too. His A7ii review shows an example and two files (D810 and A7ii) since yesterday. Similar scene. I’m sure it can be a problem in some situations (you have less bits), but the occurrence is rare.
Love the IS but am guessing there will be A7s II and A7r II soon with the IS and I’d prefer those. Patiently we wait. Oh and that’s pretty amazing stabilzation at 200mm’s, something no-one should be doing with video…so good example but I’d like to see it at say 50-100mms which is a more likely scenario for video hand-held with stabilzation
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/55135181
Read that and laugh, at Sony. If that is amazing for 200mm, then see what that guy does with 1680mm!!!
Another troll comment with a nonsense test. Take the sony 200mm and crop it to 1600mm it will win.
Hmmm….owning the a6000 and a7 the difference I see in image quality really does show in landscapes and especially in printing landscapes. My conclusion is the opposite of Admiringlight. Goes to show that the pro bloggers don’t always have great insight…. Actually, worse is anything the Fauxblographer writes. I don’t know what’s worse, their writing or their senseless opinions.
My biggest problem is their inability to design a fair test…
Good to know I have this power in my hands to take sharp pictures of door knobs.
Hey, there are those, on this very forum, who are incapable of shooting a sharp landscape with an A7R, there really are!!!
Your talking to a guy that walks around everywhere with a tripod 5 axis or not. Base ISO, two second timer..WAMMO.
And what do you do when you want to take a picture?
I am sorry to hear that.
The sad old truth: having money to buy something doesn’t mean you know how to use it. So Jesus, do you call the bible ‘$#!t my dad said”?
It’s not Tolkien, I’ll give him that…….
Tolkien stole everything form canon and nikon!
As a videographer primarily the HUGE hang up with the a7 series has been their small size and no stabilization….nothing but camera jittters when shooting hand held. The A7S is primarily being used for video…Why the hell they didn’t give it a meaty grip and internal stabilization (not too mention internal 4k) is exactly the reason I won’t buy it despite its mouth watering low light abilities.
To evaluate this it’s import and to know if it is before or after the firmware update. The firmware update appears in other videos to significantly reduce high frequency shake.
More links for Canada please! The difference in currency plays its bad role – can’t order now anything from US it’s too expensive :/
Yawn “expert” tests…
Design a test let us all shoot it to see.
Make your own, I am not there for you.
That is like nothing.
Yes, some people can hold camera steady, but in what environment? There is BIG difference for that!
How about when you are shooting in so cold environment that your hands and whole you are shaking so bad from cold that you can’t get steady shot?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qCN5H6U01w
Read the original poster testing http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/55135181
That is something I did’t expect but that does blow away any IS I have seen or experienced.
In photography (or as in life) it is stupid to believe that you are always in control, you are in situation where you control your body and you don’t need any assistance or support to get the job done.
Handheld 200mm and indoors, no information about stance?
That guy (or lady) handhelds a 840mm (equivalent to 1680mm!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) focal length in cold weather with shaky hands and gets perfect footage!!!!
It is just mind blowing!
The only mind blowing thing is that m43 is still alive…
That is a 40-150 mm lens, Olympus fanboys do not know much about optics. Those who do obviously don’t put their money there.
For your info: this toy is equivalent to a 80-300 F8-F11 lens on a sensibly sized sensor. Yes, there is stabilization, but have you ever seen a Canon IS tele? I guess that piece of junk is even expensive, too.
How does the phoblographer post such awful images? They actually look like they have taken them at one ratio and are stretching, compressing them to another. I wouldn’t be surprised if they are taken in 2:3 and ouputted at 4:3.
Because most blogs are not done by people who know what they are doing, but by people who just want to be somebody. A good test takes time, most blogs just want to post clickbait and affiliate links, like SAR. It is 90% “BUY NOW” and 10% info, but at least the comment section makes up for…. oh no.. wait the comment section is even worse 😉
Yeah right
Taking photos with shutter 1/6th and s-log2 video and being able to capture 14 stops dynmaic range with s-log2 and the price difference is like 300$ give or take !! Hell yeah i wanna upgrade !!!!!!
We still need 85 voters so please….it would do no harm anyway and cost nothing, maybe one minute….;)
https://www.change.org/p/sony-enable-uncompressed-or-lossless-compression-raw-files-on-the-a7-cameras-and-future-f-e-mount-cameras
Link to dpreview picture gallery is false…
“Time their camera releases better”. That’s stupid and just petty. Release the camera as soon as you develop it. Don’t wait because some blogger might be butt hurt he just bought a camera.