EOSHD Sony A7 II test shoot with 5 axis SteadyShot Inside from Andrew Reid on Vimeo.
We finally have first native english hands-on previews with the new Sony A7II. As usual keep in mind those are previews and not full tests. So any conclusion you read here is subject to change after serious in deep testings.
EosHD focused his test on the video aspects of the camera and the 5 axis stabilization. He writes:
The 5 axis stabilisation system is also somewhat underwhelming. I didn’t find it as effective for video as the system Olympus employ in their OM-D E-M1. Handheld pans and tilts are not so much the issue, it is the lack of damping on very high frequency jitter. Granted it was a very cold day and my hand was a little shakier than it normally is! But the difference is obvious. Sony seem to have their own system and it just doesn’t work as well as the one in the E-M1 for video.
The system undoubtedly has an advantage for stills, but even then the advantages vs the A7S are debatable. The A7S can shoot at such high ISOs, you can use a shutter speed like 1/100 to avoid blur from camera shake in low light. The A7 II can certainly shoot at speeds like 1/10 handheld and get a sharp shot, meaning you can shoot at lower ISOs than on the A7S in low light but the A7S is pretty much as clean at ISO 12,800 as the A7 II is at 3200!
Pocket Lint tested the autofocus performance and writes:
We got to play with the original A7 and the A7 II and did find the new model to be quicker. Perhaps most notably in continuous autofocus, where it’s automated adjustment between subjects at different distances wasn’t as far behind our Nikon D810 (which we also had in tow) as the earlier system.
USA preorders:
Sony Alpha a7II (Body Only) for $1,698 at Amazon (non available), BHphoto (Click here), Adorama (Click here), SonyStore (Click here).
Sony Alpha a7II with FE 28-70mm OSS Lens for $1,998 at Amazon (non available), BHphoto (Click here), Adorama (Click here), SonyStore (Click here).
Sony 70-300mm f/4.5-5.6 G SSM II Lens for $1,148 at BHphoto (Click here).
EU preorders:
Sony Alpha a7II (Body Only) for 1.799 Euro at Amazon Germany (Click here) and at Sony UK (Click here), Wex UK (Click here).
Sony Alpha a7II with FE 28-70mm OSS Lens for 2.099 Euro at Amazon Germany (Click here) and at Wex UK (Click here). In Finland at Verkkokauppa.
176 Responses
the fact that the a7s can shoot higher iso and requires slower speed for sharp pictures only applies to 100% viewing size. otherwise it has been proven that the a7s vs a7r is basically the same up to iso6400 and not much different at 12800 (when viewed at the same size). the argument in itself does not make any sense. why then shouldn’t we all shoot with a 5mp full frame cam? I bet it would be noise-free and always sharp even with crappy lenses.
for this reason, i’ll take the a7ii over the a7s any time. (the a7s is compelling for other features, not image quality)
The guy is smoking some good stuff, to claim that the A7S is as good at ISO 12800 as the A7II at ISO 3200. There’s roughly half a stop between them at that point (grows higher up the scale though). Not to mention the fact that the difference between 1/10 and 1/100 is not 2 but over 3 stops.
He is talking about video… get a grip. And no, I would not be surprised if ISO 12800 looked like 3200 IN VIDEO on the A7S vs A7 II.
this is what I read — it looks to me as if he’s talking about stills:
The system undoubtedly has an advantage for stills, but even then the advantages vs the A7S are debatable. The A7S can shoot at such high ISOs, you can use a shutter speed like 1/100 to avoid blur
Yeah maybe, I tend to agree to an extent anyway, I don’t need IBIS in the A7S because I would rather bump up ISO and freeze motion (something IBIS will never help you with anyway) and despite being ‘proven’ by review sites and then regurgitated by forum posters the A7S gives me a LOT more latitude to do that than my A7 does.
But A7S only has CDAF. Can you actually shoot motion?
That’s not a rhetorical point, I would very much like to know. A7S sensor seems perfect.
Depends on the motion, but yes, yes I can.
The IBIS will be nice in stills for inducing selective motion, I’ll take it!
7r maxes out in the 2k-3200 ISO range depending on your plans for use. 7s 10k. This is regarding stills in situations where your not bringing your own light into the situation.
maxes out what?
dxo’s measurements say there’s not a huge difference in print at 6400iso, so thanks but no thanks, I’ll take a little bit more noise at 6400, but 3 times the resolution at 100 iso (of course, assuming the lens can resolve 36mp), and 1 whole stop of DR.
of course it depends on the situation and your intended use. Those are rough numbers which are the limits of acceptable(to me) for day to day. Personally, if I were shooting events I’d take the 7s all day long…and cringe a little if had to use the R. Then again, if your intent is more commercial/print, the R is the way to go.
Horses for courses and all that.
Of course the Olympus one is more effective: smaller sensor means they can move and tilt it more inside a small camera.
Much easier to move the smaller sensor too, the only way to compare fairly is against the a99 with a7II disabling 2 of its 5-axis stabilization
He claims less effective with higher frequency shake, less related to amplitude, more to speed of movement. That could be explained with the fact that the A7II has a lot more mass to move. But I’ll await some controlled head to head comparisons from production ready units, before jumping to conclusions like he did.
Wait a few days & he’ll change his mind………….. 🙂
…has started the battle against the A7II begin! LOL
Maybe is not so “effective” since the system has to stabilize a sensor that is a lot bigger?
Or maybe people try to find all the “defects” just because it’s a Sony?
Damn it…forgot… “…A7II: let’s begin!”
There is so much about these cameras that get missed in reviews. I never knew how good the A7S was in apsc mode with clear zoom for recording using super 16 lenses, so can record internally from 1080p/30fps to 720p/120fps, until I stumbled across it on a forum.
I’m sure the A7II is a lovely camera, but I personally can’t see a compelling reason to switch to one from an A900 or A99. With the A-mount adapter its almost the same weight and I can get over 800 shots out of an A900 on one battery. This one’s rated for like 270 with the viewfinder? It would be cool to have a low-light camera though, so it seem like it makes more sense to get an A7S for those situations.
Well, that is if you use primarily A-mount lenses. Don’t forget that the E-mount allows for everything from mounting Canon EF lenses via Metabones to an assortment of manual SLR and rangefinder lenses, all of which are now stabilized.
Why are so many people fascinated with adapting some 3rd party lenses with a more or less pronounced loss of functionality? Even if they worked perfectly (which it doesn’t), why not just buy all native lenses for a chosen system? At least for a new user
Are you going to sponsor them to do so?
Think again.
Besides the fact that for example all those Canon shooters using these cameras, have their reasons to use both.
If you haven’t been shooting since film days and don’t have a collection of old glass on your shelf, why not pay?
Especially if you never shot in MF and want lenses with the newest ultrasonic motors and latest coatings and weather-sealing. It’s not like you’re not getting anything for the money.
And if you’re tight on budget, Canon has non-L lenses, and there’s Samyang MF lenses for all mounts.
That’s 2 big “if”‘s and still misses out on the most obvious one. Now you can buy a great APS-C camera for a few hunderd dollars and use lenses that practically cost nothing to get good quality stills or video. Same with FF starting a whole set for little over 1K. No recent Canon or Nikon FF can match that once you add lenses to the equation. Especially outside the more common FL ranges. So cost can be a large reason too, especially for those who care less for fast follow focusing.
I have some of the latest lenses with modern coatings, but still like to use some of my old lenses too. With a current version of Photoshop, even challenging the limitations (fringing, loss of contrast in backlit situations) usually isn’t much of an issue with my legacy lenses, if any.
Okay, but there’re all kinds of ultra-cheap lenses for A-Mount too. A junk market on local forum is filled with them… all kinds of old Sigmas and Tamrons and Samyangs and whatnot.
Which is what attracted me to (and I haven’t left yet) the A mount in the first place, amongst things like IBIS and good quality LV. For some, the E mount expands on those benefits, for others it doesn’t. Depending on starting point and needs.
Professionals don’t adapt old glass IMO, it doesn’t make sense fiscally or from a usability standpoint. If you’re an employed shooter you have to compete and get the job done, no excuses, that’s why its Canon or Nikon, Phase One or Hasselblad MF. If you’re a filmmaker, videographer or multi-media pro, its Sony or Panasonic or Canon Cinema. If you’re a hobbyist, its whatever floats your boat, a bit of this & that is fine, its all fine.
Ok, so why did you mentioned A-mount lenses when the native lens mount is the E-mount?
Because when the lack of E-Mount lenses is mentioned, it is often said that “but you can use A-Mount lenses”.
For some it is practical, for others it is fun. It can be about cheaper lens, specific lenses, rendering, size and weight etc. And they do work perfectly. You only lose some functionality, but also gain some.
Have a look on ebay… Old Minolta Rokkor for example are inexpensive good piece of glass (and my family get a full set of those they don’t use anymore).
Why should I buy nearly 1k $ Zeiss lenses if I don’t care about AF ?
Mirrorless hasn’t brought forth any real advantages so far.
It’s neither ‘compact’ nor ‘versatile’ as people claimed it to be, it struggles to get to the DSLR level of performance, and crucially, it still has no essential lenses.
You can use A-Mount lenses on it with a LA-EA4 adapter, but then all you get in the end is a clumsy looking SLT camera with A65 AF.
As it turns out, it also doesn’t offer much in terms of ISO boost, since AF points on the sensor reduce the sensitivity as well.
The masses buying them, often in addition to their DSLR’s, seem to disagree.
And the A7 (as does the A99 along with the beamsplitter) may show a tiny impact from OSPDAF in terms of SNR, the APS-C cameras with OSPDAF no longer do in practice.
Maybe for you. For me my setup is tiny and light against what I used before. My essential lenses are all there. I have *MANY* advantages over my DSLR/SLT setup I had before for years :).
Give me an A-Mount with:
5-axis IS
Smaller / lighter when I want it to be
Works with all my A-Mounts
Works with all my E-Mounts
Works with manual lenses
Allows you to choose crop mode or not when using crop lenses (rather than forcing crop)
Allows you to dial in FL for adapted lenses to retain IBIS
Allows me to use EF lenses with electronic aperture control and IS
Costs under $1700
Allows me to upgrade to better AF modules later down the track
Let me know when a DSLR or SLT does all that and then I will believe that ‘mirrorless is not versatile’.
Imagine for a second that E-Mount never existed, and all Sony’s new tech went into SLT cameras. OK? So we’d have:
A99-II with 5-axis IS
RX1 for smaller (A7x is only compact with 35mm f/2.8 anyway, and RX1 is f/2)
Works with all A-Mounts
Since E-Mount never existed, all those f/4 lenses were produced for A-Mount
“Works with manual lenses” – there’s the whole line-up of native AF glass… and some cheap manual Samyangs for low price… OK, you’d have to give up on some old glass with discontinued mounts sitting on your shelf. Is it really an important thing? Same for “dial in FL for adapted lenses” and “EF lenses”. Isn’t it better to have all kinds of native lenses availible? Canon has the most versatile system so far, because they have all kinds of lenses with full native functionality and don’t have to ‘adapt’ anything.
“Costs under $1700” – take out the PDAF mechanism and it costs less… but doesn’t have the PDAF mechanism. Figures 🙂 If they release an LA-EA5, I think it’ll cost pretty much the difference between the A7 and A99.
“Allows me to upgrade to better AF modules later down the track” – I don’t see many people buying new A-Mount lenses to use with their E-Mount cameras. It’s a stop-gap solution for the existing users, nothing more.
So you can’t, but can offer excuses and a ‘hypothetical’ world that you think might be better… for you? Thank you for your opinion but it does not interest me in the slightest. I left Sony in the A99 days and with good reason… A-Mount has progressed at all since then. Oh and the main reason I buy A-Mounts is that I can get top tier lenses for stuff all because nobody wants them or values them, that works for me!
Naturally A-Mount can’t “progress” if Sony doesn’t develop it!
It’s not like it can magically move forward on its own. Sony invested in A77-II AF – and that’s big progress we got. Sony didn’t produce A99-II – so we don’t have it.
The fact that A7-II has 5-axis IBIS and no A-Mount does is a decision by Sony, not an inherent advantage of mirrorless or a disadvantage of SLT.
So in conclusion, mirrorless brought no advantages of its own (as I have shown, ‘compactness’ and ‘versatility’ are both myths), Sony just gave newest tech to E-Mount and pretty much stopped the development of SLT.
The downside is significant – there’re now no EVF-based FF system for reportage/event photography.
I came to Sony for EVF and it’s a shame I now have to consider Nikon with stupid OVF or E-Mount with slow AF and no lenses.
You haven’t ‘shown’ any evidence of anything, other than ‘you don’t like it’. The fact that you are incapable of using an E-Mount camera is of no consequence to me. I am happily using mine in the ways you deem to be impossible where you twiddle your thumbs and hope for something better. I have a Nikon and E-Mount cameras and never ever need to use the Nikon. Your problem, one that you seem to feel the need to share with the world constantly as ‘fact’.
@duott
We know you don’t like the mirrorless cameras, do you really have to repeat your list of disadvantages for you every time there is a post about A7 cameras?
Just don’t buy them if you don’t like it and shut up. Obviously you are not interested in the advantages or you don’t even know them or simply ignore them.
For people like you I wish Sony abandones a-mount, just to see you go away to another forum with cameras that are made for YOU
I have nothing against mirrorless cameras. If Sony succeds in their quest of producing a DLSR-quality mirrorless and releases the needed lenses, I’ll switch to mirrorless, probably along with everybody else but some hardcore OVF fans.
The problem is, Sony stopped the development of their SLT line long before they had anything comparable to offer in mirrorless. E-Mount series still progresses in terms of catching up to DSLR. A6000 now has AF comparable to 70D, meanwhile 7D-II gets 1DX’s AF system… same with FE. A7-II has got the stabilization now, which A-Mount cameras have had for ages.
It’s all goood that mirrorless is getting ‘not much worse’ than DSLR now, but actually getting ‘better’ is still somewhere in the future.
Strange comparisons. That a6000 costs 3 times less than the 7DII and the brand new a7II is the same price, but with a bigger sensor and stabilization. If we start talking about performance without taking price into consideration, it’ll lead us nowhere.
Troll. You sound like a CRT TV salesman trying to convince people that LCD flat screens are not the future.
Show me a DSLR as compact as an A7 with Loxia lenses. Show me a DSLR + tele lens as compact as the GM5 with collapsible tele. Mirrorless is doing things that DSLRs could never do.
Mirrorless may very well be the future (who knows?), but that potential is still there, in the future.
In the present, it has only killed off SLT and didn’t bring anything to the table.
M4/3 seems to be genuinely more compact, a the price of the sensor size. But then again, RX100 is even more so. If compactness is a priority over AF and IQ, why not take an RX.
A7 has never been compact, even with the kit lens. The only small-ish lens is 35 f/2.8 and some MF 35 and 50mm’s mostly. And it doesn’t make sense anyway – again, if you want a compact camera with 35mm, there’s RX1.
A7-II got bigger, A9 will be even more so. Consider also Samsung NX1, it’s the same size as a DSLR.
More BS, it never ends duott troll.
I agree. I don’t really see where the mirrorless fits in. For me it’s DSLR + RX100.
The RX are all greta, but they are not very versatile. That is where a compact ILC comes in.
How about this, how about you go shoot with the A6000 or A7s for a month or two, then come back to have an opinion instead of pointing at something you never tried.
Like failing to focus when the subject moves? Or going blind in the dark? or blasting the battery in a couple of hours? But why argue? But your crappy toy and enjoy it. Just don’t spam the forum with your marketing, ok sweetheart?
Typical duott troll BS, always wrong, all the time.
I’ll add to that: mirrorless has brought no advantages, but a lot of misinformation. The shills on the net have surely convinced some first time buyers to get into the wrong system, so we can safely say that mirrorless has degraded the camera market.
One little fact for the genuinely interested here: did you know that you can mount many manual lenses on EOS? Nikon, Leica R, M42, Olympus OM, Contax… And with the precision focusing screen, you can focus them easily wherever you need to – not only in the centre. You can even install Magic Lantern and get adjustable peaking – way better than the A7 peaking. You cannot mount Sony lenses on EOS, but who has got those anyway?
I don’t get the appeal of mounting 3rd party glass anyway. If you’re a new user looking for a system camera, what difference does it make if it can adapt some old glass from some discontinued system?
Well it can be fun: a proper optical vf, the aperture ring, and a smooth focus ring make for a cool experience.
Besides, modern Zeisses are mostly great and you can get them used at good prices if you have patience.
The LV feed from Canon cameras is restricted to their fixed (for FF) LCD’s and comparatively low quality (grainy and low resolution when enlarged). Plus most of the prime lenses and all the legacy glass remains unstabilized. If you think hacked firmwares are the answer to mirrorless, you’re living in a parallel universe.
Yawn. The cheapest DSLRs are the answer to mirrorless. This might change in future, but we are not there yet.
The “wrong” system, lol. And you know better, of course? Yes, we all know that you can adapt lenses on Canon with that tiny adapter. You still can mount way more on the Sony. You can also focus the Sony not only in the centre and no matter what screen you use, it will always be more precise to focus with magnified view.
Vlad, I wonder why you keep posting, you are obviously not a photographer. If you had tried Canon, you will know what I am talking about: they have magnification in live view, and precision matte screens offer a quick and intuitive experience. Mirrorless have no focussing screens, only crummy electronic viewfinders. They will improve one day, but we are still far.
You are not a photographer, blablabla. Lame comeback, whether you are trolling or being serious.
Ok let’s add to this some more: Just switched from 5DIII to A7S and A6000, used manual lenses on both. Never got proper focus on the 5D, on the sony I get perfect focus because the viewfinder has a zoom option. Whatever I saw as ‘in focus’ on my 5D was just out of focus on the actual photo, a known problem with Canon. Do I know post one of those ‘but if you where a real photographer you would know this” bullshit argument. Just because you don’t see the value doesn’t mean it’s not there. All these stupid reactions on mirror-less, why? you feel like you need to push back because it is too popular? you think somehow because you don’t own it it doesn’t have any value? Do I miss my 70-200 2.8, not after a day walking around no, I get two bodies, all the lenses I need in a package that used to fit just the 24-70 and 5D + grip at half the weight and better dynamic range. Blown out stuff that would die on the 5D is full of detail on the A7s. Are the ergonomics better on the canon? did I have more lens choices? Did it say ‘canon’ on the canon and not sony.. yes to all. But I got a sharp EVF with peaking, auto zoom when i focus manually and loads of other stuff magic lantern is never going to get you because the LCD is not that sharp (I shot with a z-finder for a while but it sucked) So nice theory Tom, stick to stuff you actually know because you worked with it for a month or two.
Well you obviously don’t speak out of your experience: your post is the usual ragtag collection of online truisms. As an experienced Canon user, I can tell you: it’s junk, and you should stop spamming.
PS You need some more syntax + structure, and less extreme arguments, to seem credible.
Canon is junk? That’s a bit harsh, I had a great time shooting Canon and before Canon Nikon al te way back to the old nikkormat and Nikon F. Right now I’m having an even better time with the Sony’s using the old Nikon manual lenses I could never get in focus on the Canon. I like to shoot at F1.2 and on the canons it would always be just off. With the canons sometimes te camera got in the way of the shot, I have not had this with the sony’s or in fact with the Nikons, then again I shot mostly manual on those.
I think you need to be a bit more specific about which online truisms or extreme arguments you mean? Are you actually responding to my post or someone else’s?
I do appreciate the comment about my syntax and end up calling canon junk, that was fun. The internet is full of people who are using this sony gear and love it, it’s also full of people like you who just want to argue over something they have not even tried. And somehow it makes you feel more ‘pro’ then others, when I don’t really care what other people prefer because it has zero influence on my work.
A7* are junk, sorry for being unclear. Glad your “work” (ie shilling) profits from these toys, it is obviously very different from mine (ie taking pictures).
Thats ok, I feel the pain of your struggle, it is true I am in Europe, but not in the UK, so it is euro’s, not shillings. And it is more then enough of those euro’s to have a very nice life. My bank really doesn’t care if this is with Sony or Canon gear. Not even when important people like yourself call them toys. Not sure why your profits are different because you make them from taking pictures, you charge different jobs in different currencies or something? It’s true I don’t make the millions you obviously do, but trust me if you live the simple life 200K a year can be enough to have some fun.
Hey here is an idea, why don’t you spend some more time talking down to people, it is what a true professional does right? Tell people it is the gear that makes you the pro, not the skills, it really makes you totally credible.
You have too much time on your hands. How much do they pay you to waste space here?
At last, a voice of reason rices from a sea of hobbyist fanaticism, THANK YOU!
You are welcome. It is just men trying to be right about something, I guess it is easier to argue numbers then talk about emotions and feelings.
Of course, it is versatile and it is compact, no matter how you twist it. Wheteher the difference is relevant to you is irrelevant. It is there. And DSLR “performance”? For the huge majority of people they are equal.
I easily get 1200+ shots out of a single battery on my A7S, despite it’s battery ‘rating’. This obviously depends on the shooting situation, my A77 was the same, rated low but easily 1500+ shots out of a battery.
“Easily”? I don’t believe that. Even the DSLRs like D610 and D810 often don’t get 1200+ shots out of a battery, even though there is no EVF attached. How do you shoot to achieve that?
Shooting a lot in a short(ish) space of time, like event coverage. My D700 has no problem doing the same.
I get about 500 shots per battery on my A7s, and I do not consider that a problem at all.
That sounds about right. I found it very difficult to get more than 500-600 on a mirrorless in general, in accordance with lot’s of reviews and blogging pros. But who knows?
I concur with +abortabort. The longest event I can recall shooting was over ten hours and at the 1300 shot mark, the other thousand-plus shots for the event taken by my daughter on her camera. I only changed the battery to be on the safe side, but that was already into the thousands. Occasionally I did use live view, such as when framing up with the camera on a tripod. I did do some manual focusing along the way, so that would increase the time the battery lasted, but since half the event was in low light, there were (many) times when prior to manually focusing, the auto focusing was running wildly trying to focus.
In comparison, my daughter’s Canon 6d takes some awesome photos, but does not have the batter life of my Sony.
Did you use the A7x for that? I use mirrorless a lot and never get close to what the DSLRs achieve. However, maybe there are some tricks I and all the other reviewers and pros blog about don’t know? I would be thankful to learn s.th. new.
Depends on the camera, with the A7S and A6000 I turn on airplane mode to switch the Wifi, turn pre-AF off and set the view to EVF which shuts itself down the second you don’t have anything close to the EVF. And I switch the camera of instantly when I’m finished. On the A7S the battery grip really works because it completely drains one battery then the next, this way you get even more out of it without having to worry. Got over 1800 shots on the A7S with grip and had more then 30% left on one battery, but I shoot a lot of sequences.
Switching from an a900 I think that there are highly compelling reasons to make the move (EVF, video, wifi, better ibis, vastly improved high ISO, et al.).
Yeah, but it depends if you care about those features or not. I don’t care about EVF, video, or wifi. Like I said before for high ISO I’d get a dedicated low-light camera like the A7S because I mostly shoot at low ISO.
All is a question of want or not want, or need or not need. If we look cameras today, we get alround tools, just like Microsoft sells you an office packet where you need in reality just 2% as a normal user. Today, cameras have video, even those like NEX-7 where it is not useable for sensor heat reasons have one. Seek a logic in that, you won’t find any.
Now, considering what you need, like me who needs a simple camera, MF only, A7 style, no video, FF sensor, no IBIS, and just 500$ the body, that’s it. Now add all you want it to have and Sony can not consider your desires only, or mine, it will have that 60% of features you never use. Sorry for that, but that is the way we do marketing today, one camera for all. Is there any reason to change for an A7 coming from A900 or A850, If the old one fits you and matches your needs, NO. If you eternally yell because of too low ISO sensitivity, blurry shots, no video, then YES. So, you made a choice and it is the right one for you, it is not the one others would or will do. So, let us all live with that and thanks for sharing your opinion, that is what this forum is made for anyway.
News firmware a7II for fix it 5 Axis
Thanks for the great video and insights on sony’s current verstion of ibis! Any still shots by chance? Still waiting to see the full quality of the a7II.
IBIS was just never designed for video. The look of unstabilized (electronically) handheld shots, shot properly is great, adds a micro dynamic to the look of the shot and is the reason why handheld shots are used. Amateurs looking for some magic to make their shaky handy cam work look good… or hacks trying to find a way out of purchasing the right tools for the job, rigs, glide cam, stedicam, etc… that’s just not what IBIS is for. IBIS is predominantly for stills photography. I do see some shake which is obviously a firmware issue that I’m confident Sony will correct, and I’m not one to be overly confident, generally, in what Sony is going to do with respect to firmware support. I might use IBIS in video if I need to catch quick B-roll of signage, for example, where it would just be really swell if I could not go back and grab sticks to get the shot, or to punch in for a closeup in a verite situation, which I can’t redo… but I’d definitely want the ability to have IBIS controllable selectively, for the few times that I needed to activate it.
In my experience, one should not relay in future firmware updates (especially coming from Sony). So if the product doesn’t fulfill your expectations the time you purchase it, return it, and eventually if _someday_ there’s a firmware update, try it again.
Here is an IBIS that was designed for Video. On this Page is an explanation and a Video that is over 2 years old. A ‘Pro Camcorder’ is bigger, because it is unwieldly and has a better ability to prop it to your body it is inherently easier to hold stable; along with the professional training that was available to the expert.
Note the ‘beating’ this Camcorder takes while it films a smooth shot. Modern Camcorders (and Cameras that have stable video ability) will have a means to correct at least some shaking and people expect it to work to some extent and not ‘fight’ with the person holding the Camera.
In Theory if you hold the Camera (or Camcorder) so it is “still” then the Video ought to be exactly the same each frame (obviously with any difference being attributed to motion (and noise) and not shake) and if there is a small amount of shake then the Video should smoothly pan from each jump to the next and lock on that jerked to position as the new position to stabilize for.
When you start a VERY slow pan the Camera should ‘catch up’ to you and follow smoothly, as you increase that startup speed you _should_ get to a point where it (the stabilization) gives up and recenters; then it is up to shutter speed to fight with the frame rate and the pan speed to determine whether the shots are sharp or motion blurred.
To hear that an expert thinks this Camera needs a bit of Firmware tuning (and hopefully no Hardware modifications) is important information to me (and many?) and I am glad Andrew made this Review.
Indeed I would want this fixed. I also would prefer to wait and see what the theoretical (hinted at but not actually “announced” ) upcoming A7sII looks like — now that is what we (or at least some of us) want to see.
To have excellent IBIS (and better yet to allow it to cooperate with ILIS, in the event that such a Lens were attached) is a win for both sides. For “Pro” or “Amateurs”, photographers or videographers.
For amateurs taking videos this is almost certainly something you want to always work well, for a Pro, well I guess they can afford better equipment in the first place and how well this Camera works is not something that concerns them; nor would they want space or weight taken up with a ‘gimmick’ that did not work well.
http://panasonic.net/avc/camcorder/features/hybrid_ois/
Thanks for writing / filming this Video Review, good to know.
Andrew Reid is NOT an expert.
Exactly, he just has a big mouth noob with a website. Land of blind / one eye king thingy.
What are your credentials?
Is that relevant? We are talking about the credibility of this big mouthed fool, we don’t need to discuss everyones credentials to do that, only his.
It’s relevant as soon as people call him names or criticise without being constructive. Your comment alone shows the problem (“big mouthed fool”). I’m sure you can do better.
I’m sorry, but the thing is comments are short, they need to say a lot in a short space. I ‘could’ spend hours going through everything he has ever written (including e-books that are paid for) and pick apart just how bad this guy is, but I’m not going to write a ten page essay on the matter and will get straight to the point on a comments section such as this. The conclusion of my essay would be something like this: “Andrew Reid is a weasel, a big noter with nothing to big note. While I am entirely sure of how he attained the status he has, what I find difficult to understand is how in this day and age he has managed to maintain it. Unfortunately for everyone this is our future of journalism.”
Yep two big mouthed fools. Andrew Reid has never credited him self as beeing something BIG. He’s a video tech tinkerer and a guy looking to get as much out of a cheap as possible video gear. The fact he’s willing to have opinions and gear guides in this day and age is a plus compared to these verbal sissies that most company tied promoter sites are. He’s willingness to be critical about over priced tech (CINEMA EOS) is good.
Oh that is a long list and with a lot of nervous clients, so I can give you a general idea 🙂 Photography about 40 years, 35 as commercial shooter, 32 years shooting film/video, moved into tv commercials in the ’90’s. But not a fan of the whole creativity by comity thing. Like to do full concept projects with small teams so do a lot of stuff for the big companies, ironically mostly internal because it pays a lot better and I have full control.
Another big difference is I don’t need massively expensive broadcast or cine gear, enjoying new developments like the Sony A7 series 🙂 Back to basics: small cameras working on those skills.
How about yourself?
I’m not into video. I just don’t like it if people are called “fools” or “idiots” in a comment section, without giving any details about what they mean and why they think so. It would interest me whether these commenters communicate like that in real life, too, or just hide behind their anonymity. People are free to disagree, but does it have to be like this? As to me, I’m an enthusiast (my wife earns some money with photography) and engineering university professor. I know a lot about technical stuff and software and try to learn about things in photography I don’t know. Right now I think about the A7ii or whether a wait for the A9 is worth it (although my investment is in Nikon, I want to build up a second system and decided for Sony).
I guess you should talk to the people who did say fool or idiot 🙂 The thing is eos kid did talked trash about other people without good reason. He talked trash about many things without good reason and obviously it pissed of a lot of people, hence the strong worded comments here.
As for the comment section being full or rude anonymous posters, we live in an age where everything needs to be to te extreme. Hyped and exploded or it doesn’t even register. Not sure about others but whatever I say here I will tell someone in real life and have in the past.
He has worked for more than 14 years. It is a fact that I can not find out any info about which School he went to (hopefully not nofilmschool).
In any event we ARE discussing “Sony”, so here is a Link to Sony’s Website: https://productionawards.sony.eu/judges/andrew-reid#.VHsqjNLF8g8
Seeing as how he is a “Judge” for Sony at their Production Awards (along with other well know people) he possesses some expertise (at least some I value).
For a full defense of his Credentials, well I guess he needs to speak for himself or work on his “About” a bit. A ‘sort of Resume’, List of Work, etc. may benefit him. Some of his “simple Demos” could definitely be pulled up a notch but I would not discount his other work out of hand.
Doing what, worked 14 years as a checkout operator? Sorry but the guy has no credentials because he is a blogger, he is famous for being a blogger who blogged about DSLRs for video in the early days. He is a guy with a big mouth and nothing to back it up. Philip Bloom is the same kind of ‘nobody who made a name for themselves’, sad thing is they haven’t even been able to use the names they have made to do anything more with their ‘careers’… Well Bloom has somewhat, but anyway.
Bloom has credentials (Sky News) those in the industry know this and have worked alongside him for years.
OK I understand your position, at least to some extent, but by the same token you might describe Zacuto the same way (“Sales for years, and an opinion”, if that is a quick version of your Comment).
Or that “other Guy” (DL). No, not another (Demo) Video by him again …
I’ll leave the ‘saving his Rep.’ to him.
I’m putting his 2-3 cents into my “pool of knowledge” (along with comments from yourself and others who are less enthusiastic about his opinion / work).
Thank you for your (possibly expert) opinion too.
Look to pro-video solutions, have you seen any IBIS? Its always OSS. SONY are very smart offering both options.
It is a not a good video camera! Genius!
All the more reason to get one!
Nicely done, IBIS seems to do a great job even if not designed for video… So contrary to what youre saying, I find it overwhelming. Hell, its a 55mm.
I’m really looking forward to this and the 35/1.4 for Video.
I am welcoming the new IBIS, mostly for stills. Correctly i shoot 1/200 sec to avoid the shake problem that the A7r has.
what i am surprise that nobody talk about if you can turn it on or off.
Don’t you want to turn it on when used on tripod? than again the FE zoom lenses have no options for that..
You can turn it on and off for OSS, don’t see why this would be any different?
aaaa stadyshoot off, thanks
Welcome 🙂
Or you can leave them both on and let them work their magic indecent of each other depending on what/how you are shooting.
Weird that when I change the mode or the camera goes off and wake up I find it on again… so furstrating especially when you are shooting with big stopper nd
SONY chose to give us two options, IBIS & OSS – smart move as both behave differently under certain conditions.
Shouldn’t he be reviewing Canon’s comparable Eos options???
You can make a convoluted connection to Sony via the Metabones adapter. 🙂
Typical eoshd post: a lot of opinion based on walking around a bit and shooting mediocre video. If you want to compare two systems, you need to shoot both in the same situation, not post some test result based on a memory of a feeling. Oh well, eoshd always seemed like ‘what if a teenager had a camera website’ to me anyway. He said the C300 was a failure and too expensive so can’t take anything serious.
The guy is an idiot… but unfortunately a lot of people who don’t know anything about video (DPReview included) get suckered that he knows his stuff.
What do you expect from a Canon fan site
I thought he is mainly using the A7s for video right now.
Lol you never read EosHD. it’s not a canon fanboy website at all. This guy advocate mirrorless. He is also a movie director.
Really, what movies does he direct? Exactly what I thought, Andrew Reid is a blogger and nothing more.
Well this is how he market himself. And how Sony market him 🙂 https://productionawards.sony.eu/judges/andrew-reid#.VHs6IGSUdi4 I have not check on imdb.
Anyway, you are just a news reader here, and nothing else…
Maybe you should check his IMDB because there is nothing because he is a nobody. Yes famous bloggers get famous, it happens, and people like you defend them because you think they are ‘somebody’ and it keeps propagating. Best he can say is he has made a few music videos… which is about where everyone starts by doing video clips for friends. He is a nobody with a blog that is quite famous.
Yes, its very difficult to get a balanced review on the internet these days. Most of these one-man sites/blogs act as promoters for camera makers and companies support them in many ways.
It is fine if you are getting an unbalanced “review” from a fan site or promotional site because you take everything with a grain of salt.
But from a site that pretends to be neutral/unbalanced it is a bit annoying.
Read his last post. I wouldn’t call that a canon fanboy : http://www.eoshd.com/2014/11/cinema-eos-mark-end-high-spec-canon-dslr-video/
Define “movie director” ? You do not need to be on imdb to be one. I never said that he was a professional or if he was entering festival etc. (which includes him on imdb). Btw, Imdb means nothing, not sure if you know but many submission to short films automatically adds you to this DB.
Anyway, this is not the point to defend him or not. As I said, he has some level of expertise in the area and his posts does not picture him as a Canon fanboy (If I had to choose, I would say that he would be more an advocate of Panasonic). He is not a journalist, a just show his own subjective interpretation.
I do like that someone challenge the 5x stabilisation from the A7 II.. At other reviews/tests will infirm/confirm his statements.
Seems to me that a videographer wouldn’t generally be using camera stabilization for video, maybe a stabilized lens if needed. Sony does need to get this right out of the gate or we’ll have another shuttergate similar to the exaggerated a7r problems. I never wanted ibis on Sony mirrored and thought it might intruduce complications.What is with the Canon and 4turds fan comments on this subject?. Sheesh there is a lot of desperatation going on.
abortabort is a world-famous online commentator on sonyalpharumors.
hah, all I read is someone who doesn’t give an actual answer to the question. He got where he is today with a blog, great. Good for him. And it is called EOSHD but it is not about canon. FAN-TAS-TIC! Do you think Shane Hurlbut has DOP / Blogger in his title? And you know what? a movie director is someone who directed a movie and therefor should be found on IMDB. I’m on IMDB, just not with this name hah!
About IMDB not always… sorry… (ref. I also was in this industry).
A Thom Hogan clone, just a shill.
May I suggest a cold shower? Just because you don’t like someones writing doesn’t mean you have to go full character assassination.
More of the same; sensor envy and now IBIS envy.
Comparing it to the Olympus stabilization? Obviously it will have superior mechanical stabilization, the sensor is minuscule. If he is constantly messing around with shutter speed for video exposure he probably doesn’t have much actual professional video expertise. Other than for special aesthetic effect, the shutter speed is best left alone based on fps.
He has very little expertise and is really very lazy when it comes to stuff like this. That ‘jitter’ he ‘expertly reviewed’ could very well be gone in actual shooting scenarios (such as shooting at 1/50th)… But as is usual for this idiot he didn’t even bother to try…
Absolutely correct, its like taking photography advise from Lloyd Chambers, LOL.
No amount of stabilization will compensate for the tiny little over processed fuzzy sensor and the resulting point and shoot quality images typical of 4turds cameras.
Lol at the lack of reading comprehension.
“The system undoubtedly has an advantage for stills, but even then the advantages vs the A7S are debatable.”
The shutter speed comments are related to the advantages of ibis for stills. Reid isn’t exactly someone with a ton of credentials, but I guarantee you he knows more about video production than the vast majority of the people on this forum. People try to justify these negative comments by saying Reid is a canon, obviously didn’t even look past the name of his website. He shoots primarily with a Sony A7s and recently has been extremely critical of Canons lack of effort on the video front.
Whose reading comprehension are you “LOL” about?
Here are the first two sentences referenced in this post:
“The 5 axis stabilisation system is also somewhat underwhelming. I didn’t find it as effective for video as the system Olympus employ in their OM-D E-M1.”
You were questioning his video expertise based on the fact that he apparently messes with shutter speed during video. His shutter speed comments were written following my quoted text and were only in reference to the camera’s stills performance rather than video performance.
Yes you are correct. The SAR post did not include the paragraph break that males the distinction obvious (particularly on a phone). Thanks for the clarification.
So, you guarantee that he know more than a bunch of commenters, because of his “credentials” which are being put into question, because nobody knows what they are. I know that this is surprising to you, but many very knowledgeable people don’t have blogs.
In fact are busy shooting, editing, writing or talking to clients and sometimes post comments here when something is rendering 🙂
Damn, we have to cancel our pre-orders now. Bummer.
Spoken like a true 4turds user. Beyond a troll.
I guess I’m not one of those smart u4/3 users 🙂 I’ve just ordered a Canon 6D (+24-70 f/4 IS) to replace my aging 5D Mark II. Plus, I still have the full u4/3 gear. Horses for the courses. The two aren’t a replacement for one another. I’m tempted by the Sony FE. Took a really deep look. But Zeiss 24-70 f/4 OSS reviews aren’t glowing (excessive CA isn’t something I need). The limited prime options are pretty expensive & not small. Comparing the high ISO studio samples between 6D and A7 at dpreview, the 6D is the clear winner…. which I found pretty surprising, given everyone touts the sony sensors. All in all, A7 (II) isn’t a replacement for u4/3 due to size, and for my uses, it didn’t turn out to be as good as Canon FF. It’s a great camera nonetheless.
The 24mp sony sensor is crap and the 6D sensor is very good for what it does. You need to check the a7r or the a7s.
If you’re fussed about CA, comparing zooms is like comparing a Prius to an Insight for a fun drive.
I used to be on Canon… EOS 3, 40D, 50D IR, 5D II, etc. and 24L II, 85L II, TS-E 90, 200/2L IS, etc. but got rid of everything (except 90 and 200) after going to Sony. What you wouldn’t know about Sony mirrorless because you’re on mFT is how easy it is to focus because the shallow DOF helps a lot with focus peaking. You also get excellent noise and IQ compared to DSLRs to the point it makes sense to have a dslr only for very tracking-heavy shoots (e.g. sports all day, etc.).
Here’s the high ISO comparison I’m looking at:
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/image-comparison/fullscreen?attr18=lowlight&attr13_0=nikon_d750&attr13_1=sony_a7&attr13_2=canon_eos6d&attr13_3=sony_a7r&attr15_0=raw&attr15_1=raw&attr15_2=raw&attr15_3=raw&attr16_0=12800&attr16_1=12800&attr16_2=12800&attr16_3=12800&normalization=print&widget=1&x=-0.3240849110728628&y=0.222935467393155
To my eyes: Nikon D750 > Canon 6D > Sony A7r =~ Sony A7.
(“>” means better; you can vary ISO etc. This conclusion holds true. A7s may be better than all, but it’s also a lot more expensive than A7 or 6D… almost 2x price).
Size comparison with comparable lenses:
http://camerasize.com/compact/#289.336,487.393,380.367,192.289,ga,t
I appreciate your comments regarding focus peaking. Who knows? I may get one of A7x after the prices drop even more.
I tried a few A7 and found focus peaking marginally useful. ML does a better job on Canon 5D; in general, I don’t find it very useful for critical focus. The advice is to go out and try yourself.
Lol dpreview? I’d rather quote wikipedia. The 36mp sensor is heaps better than the 24. Get your hands on a a7r or a d8xx and check the raw files. Night and day compared to Canon files. The 6D sensor is no under performer but when you can have 36 with better (at least not worse) quality why bother with 20? I’m of course speaking from experience after using them all and i have compared things scientifically… not like dpreview 🙂
Are you a scientist?
You don’t have what it takes to know even if you saw me cloning humans on the moon
it’s called sarcasm…and 4 the record I wouldn’t touch 4turds with a 10 foot pole 🙂
Beyond Troll: I hope you realize the moment you use the term “4turds” you lose all credibility.
Are you so insecure that you have to resort to infantile terms and insults to others in order to accept your own choices as to camera brand? Do you honestly think your choice of camera brand is going to be utterly flawless? Do you think your choice of camera brand is going to be the absolute best in every factor?
Why can you not accept the fact that sure, Sony is a great brand with great equipment, but like all companies, does not make totally perfect products? There are always tradeoff in engineering, and other companies will inevitably do some things better. And other people will inevitably have differences of opinion. No reason to be so immature about it.
Now to be fair, this same phenomenon happens with many people, owning all brands. But it’s ridiculous to get so defensive about a brand.
That these people on a sony blog are referencing and trolling m43 just shows you how they perceive m43 as being the “leader”.
The a72 is a cool piece of kit, but I think the size of the mount, versus sensor size, will be the ultimate limitation for it’s IS capability.
You have too much time on your hands. Also, try using fewer and shorter words: that could make you sound smarter and less pedantic. I know, I know, you try hard.
I’m amazed at “4turds”. It’s fantastic that someone has bothered to invent an insulting nickname for a camera sensor size. I bet there are people who to to knitting forums and spread feces-based nicknames for various common knitting techniques.
You couldn’t be more wrong, there will be a backlog of orders for this camera well into January/February. Smart M43 users are dumping their gear now because they really want full frame quality and are tired of pretending.
I guess I’m not one of those smart u4/3 users 🙂 I’ve just ordered a Canon 6D (+24-70 f/4 IS) to replace my aging 5D Mark II. Plus, I still have the full u4/3 gear. Horses for the courses. The two aren’t a replacement for one another. I’m tempted by the Sony FE. Took a really deep look. But Zeiss 24-70 f/4 OSS reviews aren’t glowing (excessive CA isn’t something I need). The limited prime options are pretty expensive & not small. Comparing the high ISO studio samples between 6D and A7 at dpreview, the 6D is the clear winner…. which I found pretty surprising, given everyone touts the sony sensors. All in all, A7 (II) isn’t a replacement for u4/3 due to size, and for my uses, it didn’t turn out to be as good as Canon FF. It’s a great camera nonetheless if it fulfills your needs.
The internet is full of misleading “scientific” tests. The truth is, Canon and Nikon are still as good as ever, and these toys cannot touch them.
Without skills, all tools are toys.
Have you got skills?
Yes… also better come backs
I agree . I have used the A7r for 9months and it comes out of the bag maybe once or twice a shoot ! Biggest complaint is the battery life is crap and everything is just sluggish compared the my canon gear. I do love the 55 Zeiss though !
Good to hear the AF’s boost is solid. We can only hope that trend continues in the 9. As for IBIS, the big use seems to me to improve the use of the magnify tool when using legacy glass(looking at you old ass beautiful Nikon 55mm 1.2), and minimize the jello~ing which occurs, as well as a little kick to sharpness.
ps: isn’t this the upgrade to the 7? not really expecting it to be video beast..
Earth to EOSHD trolls, this is not a video camera.
Anyone who does to eoshd knows what it’s about (video). It’s the admin that misquoted.
this is crap, we do once more compare apples and oranges. A light small sensor like a 4/3 is easier to stabilize as a FF. Then, I have not seen in any statement of Sony that their 5 axis Ibis is better, same or even to the one of Oly M1. All they said is that it is not the same and it’s own development. All we can compare here is A7 to A7-II only, there is no competitor, and there we get a positive result. Now, anyone can buy now Oly M1 instead, but then forget FF. This is a polemic crap we start here, an unfair and useless discussion only. If we compare IQ of M1 to A7-II, we start another unfair discussion, and the winner is …….
A smaller sensor has a smaller image circle but same angle of view. That means the sensor needs to be moved much smaller distances and it is much harder to do accurately than move a larger sensor with larger movements.
But the problem Sony is facing probably is about image circle size, as 4/3 was designed by Olympus to allow IBIS movements, allowing multi-ratio sensors as well. Example Olympus 45mm f1,8 covers APS-C (aka “Half-Frame”) sensor but most doesn’t.
The benefit is with m4/3 that sensor can be shifted and tilted much higher degree relatively to image circle offering higher corrections. But the accuracy needs to be very small to have the benefit.
Frankly, I tried both systems and liked neither. They are broken toys in comp with C & N (or an A900).
@admin you have misquoted the source. Mention “video” in the title. Also this guy just played with it and made conclusions without a side by side comparison and under different conditions that he himself mentions.
Your blog doesn’t need to get attention this way. It’s good as is.
Way misleading and premature statements there, but whatever. There’s gonna be heaps of credible, in-depth reviews in a few weeks time.
On another note, I’ve seen on TheCameraStore how amazingly convenient and modern the handling and UI of the NX1 are – I sincerely hope for something similar for the A9 since that’s gonna be the be all end all cam for me, saving up right now. SONY, no matter how some ppl gibber on about how they personally don’t need it, please give us touchscreen and a Samsung-like UI!
No! Samsung UI is awful, give us a Canon UI. And build. And consistency. And dependability.
And that’s one reason why photographers buy Canon or Nikon 🙂
How about a Panasonic UI and touchscreen. They are the best and I’ve used Nikon, Canon, Fuji, and Olypmus.
Eoshd, Mr. Andrew, has an attitude and temper problem. Many had people commented on his page and got profanity thrown at.
Sadly, the Pocket Lint hands-on (definately not a review) doesn’t add much to already existing knowledge. Except that Sony’s claim about faster AF may be actually true… wow. It’s time that real photographers get their hands on this machine.
Did anyone actually think the 5 axis was really going to keep up with Olympus? It’s Sony’s first go around. The additional camera thickness and slight increase in weight was sure to offset the deeper grip. Better really like the new shutter placement. Aliasing, no internal 4K seem big misses. Have to want that fancy handle and steady shot. I think the real “upgrade” will be the A9.
Not Sony first IBIS. Sony has A900 and A99 that has IBIS (35mm sensors) and they are old cameras.
Sony use the Minolta technology and not Olympus so there are differences.
But even a 1-2 EV stabilization is huge improvement to non-stabilized.
I have found E-M1 stabilization work wonderfully (best from any OIS/IBIS) but there are some quirk oddity when using 60mm macro, as the IBIS starts tilting sensor in X axis unless shaking camera pretty radically to keep it steady :-).
I hope Sony manages to improve that IBIS via firmware.
Quick piece of advice: sell that junk and get yourself a phone.
Once more a Video related review is being headlined misleadingly. Admin, PLEASE say VIDEO when a review is about Video. It will stop people like me (who don’t give a rats ass about video) from complaining about it.
lol this test is so awesome useless. Except for some M43 Image Stabilisation never runs on 100% in Videos. On the SLT Series Image Stabilisation doesnt run at all! Its only Pixel-Shift technology there, the physical image stabilisation is completely turned off while filming.
So this Test only shows you what you get in Video mode… but i still doubt its near the A-Mount IBIS.
The a99 already was at the limit when you used focal lengths more than 300mm, an optical image stabilisation already made an difference of one stop there so i doubt that the a7 Image Stabilisation is of any use there.
But its mostly limited to the body size, if there would be an E-Mount with the Body of an a99, this would be different.