BestMirrorlessCameraReviews posted an interview with three Sony managers. And let’s start with one of the key info regarding A-mount. Mr. Aoki from Sony said:
For the moment, we cannot see mirrorless technology overtaking the translucent sensor technology. Therefore, we want to keep developing both the A mount system and the E mount system. And in Europe, thanks to the Minolta heritage, many customers own Alpha lenses and these customers still want to use their lenses on current Alpha bodies. That’s why this summer we announced the Alpha 77 MK II and we strongly believe that its performance is very good.
There is no word about future A-mount camera and lens development yet but at least we finally got an official statement from Sony about A-mount.
And here are some more key info
1) “when we launched the A7 and A7r, half of the lenses we announced yesterday hadn’t yet been decided”
2) FE lens design development take: “One year to two years. For the easier ones, it takes around one year.”
3) About curved sensor camera: “At this stage there is no product plan in the pipeline for a curved sensor. It’s maybe a long-term development so we can’t give you any more details“. SAR note: Keep ind mind two months ago Sony said mass production for a curved FF sensor is ready. SAR also spotted the patents for an RX with curved sensor. So I tink they have a product in pipeline but just want not to spill out the surprise 😉
4) “we have a 40% market share in the mirrorless segment”
5) It’s the kind of product that drives the mirrorless market: “Looking at the European market, the popular mirrorless products are always high-value cameras like the Fuji X-T1 or the Panasonic GH4 or the Olympus OM-D and our Alpha 7. All products are in the high-end segment”
6) About the A7 success story: “From a reputation point of view, very much so. It really did more than we expected. From a business point of view, because of this price point, it is of course not the kind of product that sells to millions but it is on track.”
7) Some fun: When asked about the future products Mr. Aoki answered: “You better visit SonyAlphaRumors for that!” SAR note: Suprised you know me! I am honored 🙂
And here is the more “serious” answer: “Our spirit keeps pushing us to challenge the market. That’s why we are developing unique products and unique features. We are not sure if our customers or the market will be excited, but at least we will challenge.”
Thanks BestMirrorlessCameraReviews!
P.S.: Gosh! Over 700 comments now on our A-mount frustration post!
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0 Responses
Kind of sad that they connect A-mount with the translucent mirror technology. Especially since the translucent mirror technology (hopefully) is just a transition period until better on sensor PDAF is available. Does this mean, once the translucent mirror is not necessary any more, A-mount is dead?
The question is whether Sony need to have two mirrorless mounts, one of which will have a redundant mirror box. Unless they can find a use for that empty space…
I used to hope that Sony would find a way to make A-mount fully mirrorless and still be able to support old lenses. Now, I just think Sony would do far better to concentrate on the system that was built from the ground up to be mirrorless. At the end of the day, I think it will lead to better cameras and better lenses with less compromises. It might be inconvenient for those invested in A-mount (including myself), but no mount lasts forever.
Sony just need to implement a simple mechanism to flip up the pellicle mirror and it will be perfect for A-mount, not sure why they didn’t realize that.
That’s a different matter, and most people wanted that mechanism to maximise image quality (while compromising AF).
The pellicle mirror can go when Sony can figure a way to get the same AF performance from the sensor (and with existing/legacy lenses). I have absolutely no idea whether Sony is trying to solve this problem. Maybe it is a problem that cannot be solved and it will only work with new lens designs – so why develop for A-mount when you can develop for e-mount, which is mirrorless from the ground up?
Imagine an SLT camera with a “Mirror / Mirrorless” lever. Or they could label it “AF priority / ISO priority”.
You get the mirror out of the way and enjoy the full ISO capabilties of the sensor.
Some action going on? Down the mirror goes and PDAF is ready to shoot!
At this moment the translucent mirror is to big to flip up in the mirrorbox, you can only flip it up (for cleaning the sensor) when there is no lens on the camera. Remember that the translucent mirror has to be that large that it will cover the total chipand it must be at the right angle to illuminate the AF chip. It is not that easy to make everybody happy. (but I like the idea)
If the mirror bothers you that much then remove it and be happy with your manual focus camera giving you that massive one-third of a stop advantage. I’m sure the ISO gain is worth it….
You can accept that a manufacturer would let a mount die, but Sony needs to provide some transparency. Besides, I think the A-mount still has legs.
They give the transparancy for now in this interview. Accept that, as long as the system is developping that they will not tell you anything about the end of the system. Canon, Nikon and Pentax all have their scenarios ready when there comes an end to the developping of one of their systems, and believe me, they won’t tell you what that scenario is…
Finally, a reasonable assessment from an A mount user! It is nice that you can see the forest and not focus on just the trees. It’s simply unreasonable to expect any company to sustain TWO different mirrorless mounts concurrently.
Well I own e-mount too – so maybe I just have a balanced view!
This is a highly visible public interview. No sane senior employee of a big corporate will leak a bummer such as the removal of the translucent mirror, no matter whether that is or is not their vision.
Yes, IF (big IF!) mirrorless is ever ready to overtake DSLR, A-Mount will be dead, along with EF Mount, F Mount and K Mount. We will probably get better adapters though.
However, this may happen in a year, in 10 years, or not happen at all.
Current progress suggests it is closer to a year than ten years.
Yeah, that exactly what it means, when translucent mirror is not necessary any more, A-mount would be dead.
However, you can always use an adapter for a-mount lenses to e-mount body.
How can on sensor pdaf ever be better than the same technology off sensor?? You can do all you want to make the negative impacts of on sensor af diminish, but carry the improvement of that work to an off sensor platform and once again the goalposts will change.
I hope Sony doesn’t focus too much of their resources to continue baby sitting the A-mount system. They are winning with the E-mount system, and imagine the force unleashed if they went all in hard to really challenge everyone else in the market with a truly powerful, capable, and versatile E-mount ecosystem.
A-mount users are pleased that Sony has found success with the FE mount, but FE mount users should also take caution about what is happening. If Sony lets the A-mount die, they’re setting a precedent that could later affect FE mount users.
You’re talking as if no camera company has ever abandoned a mount.
There are plenty of precedents for this.
This is true, but it’s always happened to somebody else, kind of like a tornado.
With good enough reason and something that can completely replace it that’s reasonable. Not atm with FE.
I think that is getting close – closer than most people think. The biggest hurdle is AF performance, notably in low light, but Sony may well have already solved that problem.
Yes, but would be hard with ergonomics. Nor adaptors are long term solutions of supporting A mount lenses. Unless a full line up of f1.4 lenses and f2.8 zooms, FE is not ready.
Sony is not abanding the A-mount at this moment, they are still developping for it. And when they stop doing so, the FE mount will be the perfect system to replace it, until then you will have both systems.
Then you talk about Sony abandoning the FE system as if they are planning to do so even when all indicates that they are expending that range of cameras, with new lenses, andother feautres. And when there a future comes where the E-mount will be dropped then there will be a new camera system that replace it…
Imagine if Sony suddenly dump FE oneday, and leave you with an immature system, what would you feel if you are a heavy invested FE person? It’s not about babysitting, it’s about stability of a system and customer confidence. Who will invest or trust a system that doesn’t care about their loyal customers? Which pro will expect pro support from this is system?
They’d only be challenging the likes of Fuji and Samsung. Those who shoot mirrorless and those who shoot DSLR are different kinds of people, so the former won’t be buying E-Mount.
Some may take one as a second camera, but not as a replacement for DSLR.
In fact my Nex 5 has became my first camera and my A700 is my backup/second camera (only for action and Long tele. There are lots of people doing the same, read the different forums…
Yes, I know. There’re all kinds of options with Alpha / NEX / RX / QX setups for different needs.
Point is, your NEX5 didn’t replace your A700.
You’re confusing you with everybody else.
You’re stuck on an Us vs Them attitude. Many different kinds of people shoot DSLR and many different kinds of people shoot mirrorless. You may as well be saying all DSLR shooters are sports photographers.
Yes, you’re right.
I know people use all kinds of DSLR / SLT / NEX / RX / QX setups. Just wanted to point out in reply to Judd Weiss that whatever ‘truly powerful E-Mount’ they release, it can’t currently fully replace a DSLR for those who need a DSLR.
As for the Us vs Them mentality… you’re right too… all these DIE DIE A MOUNT SONY MUST KILL A-MOUNT ARRRRGH posts kind of give one that…
Clearly you dont get it..if Sony drops A mount when it becomes convenient they will drop E mount as soon as it is conveint..and E mount lenses, unlike A mount lenses, cannot be adapted to any other lens mount..the are too short.
So you can envisage a time when the flange distance will need to increase again, can you? I suppose when the flappy mirror has been dead for 20 years it will make a come back, just like vinyl records.
And in some future the camera systems as we know them now will all be over. We get a chip build in our head and take pictures with our eyes. No new cameras, no new lenses.
But until then cameras will be build. New cameras of all kind of systems will come out. For now Sony is still developping for the A-mount, when it is not proffittable anymore the A-mount will die, as will the DSLr range from Pentax, Nikon and even Canon…
We don’t need to imagine it. This is it. If you think Sony is holding back because some amount of money is going to a mount, you haven’t been following. You’re just being greedy and spoiled rotten and want more. Alpha mount users don’t want more, they just want some! Any! A little bit at least.
Thank you, Andrea!!!
“Translucent sensor technology”? Sounds like he really knows what he’s talking about!
Most likely something was lost in the translation by Mr. Aoki.
In English “We want to develop” and “We will develop” mean different things. Hope to hear “We wil…”
I have a friend heading to the Sony booth as I type. We’ve been chatting on whatsapp and he intends to make a video of him interviewing a Sony rep and asking him specifically about the future of a-mount. Best case scenario, we get something similar to this statement, but most likely we’ll just have a video of a guy squirming.
It is very easy, those people on the booth tell yo nothing more then: We are looking at new products in the A-mount, can’t tell you more (bin there done it)
I’m sure, unless he can corner somebody higher up.
Stop bluffing any more… He just not dare to announce A mount is going to dead. Sony just want A mount die in slowly and silently. If they really in development of A mount. Y does not give a clear pathway of A mount..
And do you get a clear pathway from Canon? Or Nikon, Or Pentax? Are they telling what you can expect on the next show? Are they all leaving the DSLR market?
Sony Make.Believe… Sony make you believe their word only but without their commitment, promise & action.. HaHA…
The key words here about A mount..
FOR THE MOMENT
and a mount users can continue to use thier lenses
ON CURRENT A MOUNT CAMERAS.
Not a clear commitment but just a supperficial attempt to stop the panic.
Sony needs more than a few words to gain our confidence.
One again I state that we need a safety net..a fully funtional way to utilize A mount lenses on E mount bodies that includes image stabilzation….
And the latest new tech first.
Contrary to these words is the Sony video about 4D AF for E mount…where E mount AF does indeed apear..at least based on the flavor of the advertising…overtaking A mount…and of course the elephant in the room..as soon as mirroress focus surpasses SLT focus then what..will sony then drop A mount?
We have heard words like these before but these words are carefully crafted to stop the panic while not making a true commitment .
Barry, it’s “on current Alpha cameras”, not “on current A-Mount cameras”
And you know that the term “Alpha” has become ambiguous
Funny to read your comment: “we can continue to use A-mount lenses on our A-mount cameras”. LOL 🙂
Fixed it
This would be an ideal time for Sony to stop development on the A Mount, seems that the majority of users (on this board) have convinced themselves of its demise.
Dear mr Barry, as always is your post very negative. let’s look at the words of Mr. Aokia bit different: He said: That make me think this: SLT is selling better then mirrorless. As long as SLT is selling good enough it will be in production. Sony is not killing th goose with the golden eggs, even when the egs turn into silver…
About the statement at the moment, it is easy, the mirrorless technology is moving very fastin a couple of years people may see the bennefits of mirrorless over DSLRs at that pivot point you will see that mirrorless become mainstream and DSLRs become a more niche market. When Sony is not selling enough SLT cameras then they will stop producing them. The same goes for Pentax and Nikon. In the end maybe only Canon stays in the market for DSLRs as we now only have Leica in the rangefinder market.
So don’t worry Sony will develop new SLT cameras…
I and many others will stop worrying only when there is a FULLY functional way to to use A mount lenes on E mount cameras.
Until then we are walking a hghwire with no safety net.
There already is, has been for years.
No there is not..NO IBIS.
That isn’t a function of the lens. The lens does exactly the same job as it always has, the lens is FULLY functional.
This is word-splitting. NEX + A-Mount lens doesn’t have any kind of image stabilization, thus not fully functional, period.
So any lens without IS is not fully functioning? You did say period.
A-Mount lens is supposed to gain image stabilization from the body. If it doesn’t, it cannot function as intended.
Enough with the word-splitting, please. You understand perfectly well what Barry and I were saying.
No it is not possible to make an adapter that provide IBIS, but you can makle EVERY lens stabilized and it cost you only a few bucks. It is a very inovative device, called a tripod! It delivers more then 4 stops of stabilisation and it works flawlessly. An other device, almost as inovative is the monopod. And for the people who want to go cheap there is the bean bag…
When you skip system, you will have no AF, can you show me a working system that makes any lens do focus?
Very shortsighted people like you love to proclaim how impossible everything is…just before less shortsighted people actually do it…so it has been throughout history.
Because barry is the definitive expert on all of human history.
More big talk to ignore.
No. A mount will then be mirrorless. Nothing to worrybabout.
Any given mirrorless camera may surpass a given slt for focus speed, but that doesn’t mean mirrorless technology is better. It would only mean that Sony would leave improvements to af out of the slt because they intentionally did not want slt to remain current.
The pellicle is superior platform for af detection, but that doesn’t mean sony has to use it, as frustrating as that is.
What will be the benefits of a bigger A-mount camera?
1. Focus speed – mirrorless is catching very fast.
2. Better battery life(bigger battery).
3. Optical VF. – But Sony uses EVF instead.. so this one is nullified.
4. IBIS. But mirrorless with IBIS is also possible.
5. Compatibility with A-mount Lenses. With adapter, mirrorless is compatible too.
6. Ergonomic.
I don’t see much of advantages. I understand if Sony wanted to ditch A-mount for good. What needed is a very good mechanism to attach A-mount lenses to an E-mount camera.
If Sony revives optical VF, than that will be another story.
You’re absolutely right on all your points. The issue is, people have a ton invested in a-mount lenses and don’t want to see them turn into paperweights. If we can get all the benefits of the current a-mount cameras, and still use our lenses in some sort of hybrid, or very effective, unobtrusive adapter, I don’t think you’ll get too many complaints.
But again, Sony needs to be transparent about their plans for A-mount’s future.
+1
Is the current adapter obtrusive? Don’t get me wrong the AF system they have in them is a bit lax for a high end FF camera, but obtrusive?
It’s a big honking thing that looks awful, makes it longer and more bulky, and changes the handling. I’d say it’s obtrusive.
Changes the handling from what? Makes it longer? Longer than what? So… it’s a big honking thing that ‘looks’ awful, meaning you have never actually used one? How do you expect to adapt from A to E without it being longer? How do you expect compatibility with the full selection of A-Mounts without a motor drive? Now go back and think about how you would make it unobtrusive? Personally I don’t find it obtrusive at all, I find it rather comfortable for using big A-Mounts as it gives you something useful to grip onto with your left hand.
So then I guess we’re stuck.
Not really. Think about this, rather than what already is:
Sony develop an ‘A9’ which is like a traditional A-Mount, but with an E-Mount. They develop this camera in concert with an actually updated LA-EA5 (not a cobbled together at the last second rehashed LA-EA2) that this ‘A9’ is designed around specifically to be comfortable to use, a bit like the bulge of the current SLT’s for the mirrorbox so it all looks and feels a lot more like they were designed for one another. Then Sony release (already very much started with 70-200mm f4 – how long have we asked for one of those, or an updated 35mm f1.4, or new G Macro etc) the lenses that we have been asking for a long time for in A-Mount. So we have a camera that has the best of SLT, that is DESIGNED to be used with an adapter when using A-Mounts and as new lenses come out they are designed for the newer mount hiding under that adapter. Say they go a step further and incorporate IBIS in this bigger body because they have more room than in the ‘little’ E-Mounts. Then we can have one system that covers all bases.
But people will always complain, they will always have a problem with this somewhere, most people can’t past the here and now. “we want A-Mounts because E-Mount ergonomics suck”… Because the mount itself has a whole bunch to do with ergonomics…
Ergonomics and handeling are big advantage for shooting in certain situations. Mounting A mount lenses and use adaptors can’t match it. One can’t expect adaptors to offer the same performance as mounting the adapted lens on its native mount. The advantage doesn’t seem much but in real life shooting It means a lot. Adptor+ E mount body is like Sony’s work around solution to support A mount lenses , is never the real solution, just a barley good enough “solution”.
Ergonomics have nothing to do with mount.
In practice, evf suffers responsiveness because so much of the resources for cameras is taken up with the processing of images. Mirrorless can’t avoid that. There is no other way but for the SENSOR to do all the work. This is not ideal. Am slt can consume 1/3 of a stop of light, only very little, and in return offer you off sensor phase detection, off sensor evf source, and burst speeds unattainable with mirrorless and with full features.
Funny my mirrorless has SLT with A-Mounts… But I guess that is reserved for A-Mount only cameras?
That silly little contraption is at once the best thing and stupidest thing on e mount.
“off sensor evf source”?
What is that exactly?
You do realise that SLT cameras are essentially mirrorless cameras with an off-sensor PDAF module. That’s it.
Excuse the confusion, I’m only postulating what slt can offer, not what it does offer. Evf could be vastly improved if were to have it’s own sensor instead of demanding the sensor do double duty and the processor retroactively down res and display it. A better solution is a 2-5mp sensor that actually can display on an evf natively and concurrently without any visible difference from what image the primary sensor will see.
I’m not convinced that’s a great idea. Improving processing speed is key to a lagless EVF. Adding additional sensors and mirrors will only add to the cost and size of the camera.
Actually opening the shutter is key to a lagless EVF if the feed comes from the main sensor.
In high speed bursts, the shutter in SLT cameras remains closed between exposures. Consequently, they have no way of showing a live view from the main sensor, no matter how great the processing speed is.
I don’t know if it is even possible to change this with current shutter technology. How long does it take to recock a shutter between shots?
That is nothing to do with lag.
We are talking about the delay in the EVF showing the live image. It is counted in milliseconds, but it can be disconcerting when panning etc. It’s the same kind of effect as input lag on an LCD computer monitor.
To be fair to Sony the unexpected and phenomenal success of the A7 line and the FE mount
has probably taken them completely by surprise. What has happened since that
launch is that Sony have decided to ‘ride the wave’ and everything else has
been put on the back burner for now. The most we can hope for in the ‘big
January announcement’ is a 36MP A99II, but worryingly Sony are not even hinting
about anything in A-mount so even that, too, may be just wishful thinking!
We had hear d rumour of A99II last year… every time admin will put it into SR5 almost correct.. but end up there is nothing… Accept the fact, they might no any A99II in coming soon, the rumour is just a strategy of Sony to keep the A mount user to remain and invest on A mount lenses. So that you wont jump shift to others brand. 🙂
SR5?????????? I think you should stop taking drugs 🙂
https://www.google.it/search?q=SR5+A99II&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:de:official&client=firefox-a&channel=sb&gfe_rd=cr&ei=YKkaVJ6XHOXW8gfD-ICYCQ
SR4 was the bets for A99II scheduled for early 2015. But keep in mind that this is an info about a roadmap. Sony lately prooved to myself their A-mount roamdap isn’t reliable. I will in future rank all A-mount rumros lower than I did until now.
On E-mount I am 90% of the time right 🙂
No news for a RX1s or RX2, very sad 🙁
Might go to the new fuji X100t
The RX series is dead.
lol
Sounds like you are right.
Would be so nice to get RX2 with 16MP, better AF, faster lens, body a bit bigger, and evf. And making the RX2 with the choise of, 24mm-35mm and 50mm
Let’s dream.
I Love fixed lens and small body, whi any company does this kind of camera??
The A7 series and the plethora of new FE lenses make the RX redundant.
+1.
There are plenty of new (unsold) RX1s and RX1Rs are available everywhere. They will be around for a few years. Not many want then at >3000 Euros/piece.
Curved sensor RX1 mark II is coming.
+1!!!
I think this is a marketing disaster. A bit like Microsoft where they kept supporting Windows XP for years for people that didn’t want to switch to Vista, Windows 8 etc… They need to be more clear or they will lose customers on all fronts. All this alpha-mount stuff is way too confusing.
They should take a cue from Olympus and release an A9 that is a fully professional flagship model with E-mount and a great A-mount adapter, and call it a day for SLT designs. With the A6000 AF technology that should not be a problem.
Considering the size of some of the announced FE lenses, this must be the direction they are heading. So they should stop confusing people about it.
A5 – full frame NEX, super-compact
A7 – full frame OM-D
A9 – E and A-mount hybrid, large body, fully professional
Such a line up would enable Sony to compete with crop sensor mirrorless (Olympus, Fuji) and with full frame DSLR (Canon, Nikon) with one system. The path is so clear, why so confuse Sony?
The path is clear for us amateur, enthusiast or pro photographers. Sony is a company guided by income and profit just like any other company. However Sony is not a photo company like Nikon for example. It’s a consumer goods – electronics – company. Therefore I don’t think that the photo department will get the importance needed for Sony to leave the third place of the Big Three (Canon, Nikon and Sony) and jump higher. Some may argue that Canon is also a company that gets most of the income from non-photo related products but that’s not true. While the photo department is nor responsable for the bulk of the income (the copiers, scanners, printers are the ones), the other departments are imaging related. The same for Olympus that gets most of its income from medical optics.
Imo what Sony needs is a good manager for the photo business. A manager that knows what photography and imaging are about. Sony needs to build up the Konica-Minolta legacy. The Zeiss partnership is good but not really necessary as both Konica and Minolta had huge know-how in imaging products, including lenses.
You must have missed the memo that stated that Imaging is one of the core Sony businesses. It has been for over a year now.
+1
Sony ‘Zeiss’ lenses are designed by Sony, ‘Zeiss’ is mostly a branding and endorsement exercise, that doesn’t mean they aren’t good or great, just that they don’t need any help from Zeiss in the actual design of the lenses.
They have a base of alpha mount users who aren’t just invested in lenses, but committed to pellicle. So long as the sensor has to suffer for evfs and af, the pellicle will prove the faster focuser, burster, and offer a better evf.
Hello Mr. Aoki 🙂
Yep, he may is reading you…now we know it 🙂
It would be nice is Mr. Aoki and Sony would release some information to calm the hysteria on SAR. Seems like people cannot get off this topic and it ruins and permeates every thread.
With the recent roadmap shown it is CLEAR that Sony do read forums and listen to customers even if they don’t appear to do it openly.
I moved to Minolta when Canon ditched the FD mount. Looking back, I somehow regret that I didn’t switch to Nikon. They may be not the most innovative player in the market but the are the most relialible.
Yes they have been reliably killing product lines with no real replacement (seems Sony aren’t the only ones) as well seemingly now just throwing full frame after full frame at the market and seeing what catches on (which will mean those that don’t won’t get a solid replacement again). At least Canon seem to have a clear idea what they are doing, even if they DO move at a snail’s pace.
Which is why canons mirrorless entry fell utterly flat?
And Nikon’s 1 system is universally adored?
I see you have no point. You got told on canon and somehow not being worse than Nikon makes them better by default.. Well cameras bodies aside, f mount is absolutely a trustworthy system. 60 years and going on. I would not describe that as killing products with no real replacement.
Well in an argument about Canon vs Nikon and this is not relevant? Weird but ok. Canon sucks, Nikon is great. Happy?
Oh and tell that to all the D300 and D700 users, ok thanks.
I see this hit a nerve… I guess getting called on your behaviour hits on a nerve.
Nope. Confusing and pointless yes, but ‘hitting a nerve’ you’ll have to do better than that.
I used a friend’s Nikon 1 for a while.
It SUCKED, even compared to comparably-priced competitors.
Hahaha, they keep pleading that the A mount is still relevant yet they absolutely refuse to go into any detail about its future plans, unlike what is done for the E mount. Hmmmm… Sounds more like they want to keep selling the remaining inventory before they finally kill the technology.
Not just that, they need to keep the current user base as happy as possible to stay royal to the brand.
Mathieu: Recent cameras like the Sony a6000 are a very good example of how mirrorless cameras are closing the gap with DSLRs…
Aoki: No, no. Better than DSLRs! (laughing)
Mathieu: So, do you think mirrorless cameras are already surpassing DSLRs in overall performance, or are they very close to surpassing DSLRs?
Aoki: We have great hopes for our mirrorless development. Compared to optical technology (DSLR), mirrorless technology has much more potential. And for this kind of electronic technology, we have much more knowledge, skills and ideas.
Heather: So it is expected that they will surpass DSLRs at some point.
Aoki: Exactly.
.
.
.
A pretty clear statement.
Well yeah, it’s obvious that mirrorless may overtake DSLR at some point.
At some point a new technology may also appear that will make both DLSR and mirrorless obsolete.
Meanwhile, equipment is needed now.
“At some point a new technology may also appear that will make both DSLR and mirrorless obsolete.”
Eh?
We don’t know what happens in the future.
Maybe Lytro cameras. Maybe organic sensors. Maybe Earth will be conquered by alien overlords. Maybe mirrorless will catch up with DSLR.
None of which changes the fact that we need our equipment to be as good as possible in the present.
Everything you mention is mirrorless, right? You either have a mirror or you don’t. Your statement makes no logical sense and is meaningless.
“Maybe mirorrless will catch up with DSLR” implies that it may, in fact, not.
“At some point a new technology may also appear that will make both DSLR and mirrorless obsolete.”
It can ONLY be one or the other. Are you being deliberately obtuse?
why they are threaten us with keeping the a-mount?
What does it matter to you?
It’s good to know that Sony sees SLT as a valuable asset.
They’ve done great in the mirrorless segment, differentiating their product from the likes of Fuji and Samsung by going Full Frame.
SLT is an equally unique and compelling offering and differentiates Sony DSLR from Canon and Nikon.
What those who claim that “Mirrorless is the future”, “SLT is a transitional technology” and “Sony should drop A-Mount” fail to realize is that mirrorless may catch up to DSLR in a year; in 10 years; or quite possibly never. And until/unless this happens, DSLR will remain a viable high-margin market.
Although mr. Aoki only talks about supporting A-Mount, not challenging Canon / Nikon in DSLR. It’s like they only see growth potential for Sony in E-Mount, not A-Mount. With SLT, they could win people over from Canikon if they put some ambition into new A-Mount offerings… But they probably have to prioritize.
A-MOUNT SLT IS, ONCE AGAIN, THE FUTURE.
Hopefully, this future comes in the form of A99-II in January 🙂
Of course they will release new A-mount bodies or update existing ones. It makes no sense to mess with your current user base.
Well at least we have had a small response (albeit not detailed) from Sony. I have a feeling that is all we are going to get directly. Anything else will come through SAR & according to SAR_admin (based on his most recent experience) most of these from now on will be SR3 & below 😉 .
I have sent emails to Sony UK support, community etc & had no replies. It seems that Sony is in a-mount communication lock down. It “seems” that they intend to continue with a-mount but direction? Roadmaps? Who knows.
Unfortunately we are going to have to wait for the January 2015 announcement. Very frustrating I know but ranting & raving on every thread here is great to let off steam but not useful at all.
I will wait & make a decision in January. Having said that though I’ve been looking at Panasonic, Olympus & Fuji – very nice cameras 😉
Keep watching Matt Granger’s channel on youtube. He just interviewed a guy at the Sony booth who spouted off about the future of the FE-mount, and the value of having a transparent roadmap so users will know what to expect into the future. That led Matt perfectly to ask “What about the A-mount roadmap?” The Sony rep said they will definitely continue to support A-mount and release new products for it. But, Matt said that they have dozens of E-mount cameras on display, but only three A-mount cameras, which is pretty telling. Matt’s video should hopefully go live later today.
Pure gold from Sony!
Good on him for ask the difficult questions! Hopefully Sony knows they’ve made a mistake by sidelining a-mount at Photokina. If existing customers aren’t convinced, how can new customers be? I know they’ve not got any new kit to show, but they should have been screaming about the advantages of the a77ii over the 7d ii – £600 cheaper, amazing af performance, decent live view (with a screen that actually moves) and 20% higher resolution.
Wow, 40% of the mirrorless market is higher than i expected. Wow, they read SAR.
Just shows that Andrea was right to make the future of a-mount post! They’re dominating the mirrorless market, so hopefully we’ll see more apsc e-mount lenses too (rather than going FF on the basis that it’s still usable with apsc bodies). I always thought the a7 series had defied their expectations…
Anyone moaning still?
Not yet, but I reserve the right to.
OVF/EVF hybrid is the way. Having both in one pro grade camera would be a win-win situation.
There soon will be no use for a redundant mirror-box of the existing A-Mount cameras and people do not want the light-eating SLT.
They could actuate the mirror and at the same time introduce a movable EVF inside the optical path of the viewfinder to have both solutions available to the customer.
Match this with leading sensor tech, Zeiss glass and first class video capability and I cannot imagine how could anybody be unhappy.
Unrealistic and technically pointless.
I believe you are mistaken.
There are people who prefer EVF. There are people who prefer OVF. Then there are people who are aware of advantages of each solution and to have both in one camera would be pure awesomeness.
You can’t have an ovf without the “redundant mirror box” as you yourself put it and the only reason evfs aren’t completely superior to ovf is delay, which is more easily and PROPERLY solved by giving the evf it’s own dedicated sensor which again would require a mirror.
Redunant in SLT. Not in SLR.
And you don’t need a separate sensor for EVF. Have you actually used the cameras we are talking about?
A7 has no more delay than A77/A99.
The delay has nothing to do with having or not having a dedicated sensor, it’s all about video processing speed which will continue to improve with each generation.
That’s certainly the route they’re going now, but so long as the sensor can only do one or the other at a time, the delay will stay. This is of particular annoyance when tracking a moving subject and bursting at full fps. Numerous reviews of the slt system describe this, and it is the case in my experience with my a77. A dedicated evf sensor could fix this because it can run concurrently to the imaging sensor. And naturally this is only possible with a mirror.
What do you mean by giving the EVF its own dedicated sensor?
The advantage of EVF is that you basically see exactly what the sensor sees. What is this dedicated sensor you speak off supposed to achieve?
Why don’t you throw in something about making coffee for you too while you’re at it?
It would be preferable to just continue improving the EVF, overall it’s already superior to OVF and can be made better in the future. OVF’s have already reached their limits being a very mature technology, OVF technology has plenty of room to improve and will.
I do love it when E-mount users try to convince A mount users at all costs that we’d be better off with an E mount camera.
If I wanted a damn E mount camera, I would have one already. What I want is certainty that my lenses and accessories will be natively compatible in the future and not through adapters.
So far, no E mount camera have ergonomics that are right for me, and yes, I have tried the A7 models and the rest. Only A mount cameras feel comfortable for my hands and let me use my glass collection.
So, Mr. Aoki, with utmost respect, A mount users will need something more than just your word for it.
E-mount users, I’m glad you’re happy with your gear, but let A mount users defend our case before Sony pulls a Sony on us and kills it.
+1 Well said.
Get it through your skull and EVERY other A-Mount die hard on here (there is nothing ‘wrong’ with A-Mount BTW) the mount has absolutely ZERO to do with ergonomics. Get it? Yes the CURRENT E-Mounts mightn’t be to your particular liking bit that isn’t a fault of E-Mount vs A-Mount, it is just the particular designs they have for each of these CURRENTLY. FWIW having had a play with the rather poxy A3000/3500 the grip and hand holding is better than the A37 it somewhat replaces, nothing to do with what mount the bloody thing uses. Clear?
Do I need to get out my crayons and draw you a picture?
First of all, nobody can claim the a3000/a3500 has better ergonomics in any respect compared to the a37. Period. End of discussion.
What’s interesting to all the e-mount droolers such as yourself, if you reverse the argument, the shrunk down a3x SLTs proves that Sony could shrink down their DSLRs if breaking tiny wrists is the big deal e-mount fans make out of teensy-tiny compact APS-C mirrorless bodies. Nikon’s new D750 has gone on a diet and guess what? Reviewers like Granger are already griping it’s compromising the button layout ergonomics which is one reason, IMHO, the a3x line never took off.
But sure, they can mold an e-mount to any size they want. But they won’t for years. Why? Because how many times have I seen e-mount fanboys who gush over the tiny, boring mirrorless rectangles Sony pumps out have absolute kittens over “big and bulky” DSLRs. So Sony builds one and they better make sure the DSLR styled e-mount addresses all SLT owners’ issues first because they’re the only ones who will buy it.
Then you move onto the issue of IBIS and legacy lenses. And AF performance with legacy glass using kludgy adapters.
So when somebody like me looks at upgrading a body the e-mount alternative really stinks unless I like what Sony is doing in mirrorless. But since I really have to replace all my glass to get the full benefit of the e-mount anyway why not consider alternatives like Nikon’s great DSLR FFs which are more mature, offer superior ergonomics, are far better all-around performers than Sony’s immature FE line, and offer a full system of lenses which puts Sony to shame.
I could care less if my camera has a mirror in it. However, I expect all the benefits of the SLT in any mirrorless body or there’s no incentive for me to stick with Sony. Get it now?
So how is Nikon’s IBIS working out for you Earl? Pretty good I guess. The rest is just a rant from someone who is clearly upset and his blood pressure is causing him to write incoherent nonsense. Also, when you say “End of discussion” do you really think that means something? I guess you aren’t really good at having people disgree with you and used to saying “end of discussion” to your carer or whoever you talk to in the real world (shop clerks mostly I guess… it’s a lonely life) who HAS to agree with you. Enjoy your new camera, it’s a cracker if you don’t mind the shutter shock, slow fps, no IBIS, no useful live view, heavier, poor MF aids etc.
So nothing has changed. I’m surprised people care about blah blah marketing anyway. Pretty amazing. All that matters are results. The A-mount bodies are as great as they’ve always been and they will still be awesome even in the coming years.
‘We still “want” to develop A-mount products’. Well, that’s a typical japanese way of state things. Remember that they usually do NOT give straight answers. It’s a cultural thing.
To say that they “want” is NOT the same thing that they WILL.
Sony also WANTS to be the world leader in the camera market, for example. Will they ever be? (hardly, IMHO)
So, unless they say things like:
“We WILL keep developing A-mount stuff” or “There ARE A mount products on the pipeline”, don’t keep your hopes up.
They’re definitely in with a good shot in the mirrorless market.
This is a never ending debate. Sony released the new A77 II not so long ago, but it isn’t enough. They need to be releasing 14 lenses a day and 7 bodies a week right? Sorry did I see a 5D III replacement at photokina that is older than the A99 or did I see a 7D replacement that was a damn sight older than the A77? A99 replacement will come, assuming you lot don’t kill A-Mount off with your unreasonable expectations first.
You’re right. The a77II is not enough and what would e-mount droolers like yourself do if the roadmap of lenses never panned out. 2015 passes and Sony doesn’t make them. The big announcement in January is all about the a-mount going “pro”. E-mount they go crickets. I’m sure you’d brush it all off as nothing to get excited over. Because there’s always the year after or the year after that. ;^)
As long as Sony are making interchangeable lens cameras I am ok actually but thanks for asking. I am not the kind of person that needs constant reassurance from Mommy and Dad that they still love me. I was right, it isn’t enough ‘for you’ and nothing ever will be, because you are simply insecure. Are you saying that the A-Mount roadmap didn’t pan out? Is that what you seriously believe?
No, dumba$$, as I’ve pointed out a number of times I wanted to upgrade to FF and keep clinging to rumors Sony will come out with something exciting in that space other than the also-ran a99. However, what I’ve read on SAR is anything remotely cool in this regard is delayed or cancelled. So, I can’t shoot with vaporware which is all Sony is offering me at this point so I went Nikon.
If you ever invested in the stock market you’ve got to know when to get in and when to get out. I’m putting Sony in a “hold” status even though it’s pretty clear from the Sony exec’s status and their behavior over the last 18 months it’s probably time to get out. So I’m holding onto my APS-C SLT stuff for now. It’ll probably end up collecting dust and a complete write-off. But, hey, I hang around hoping for something interesting. I’m sure they’ll eventually put out an a99II they way they did an a77II.
But all the bold roadmap “pro” marketing hype SAR is pumping out is so much bilge water, IMHO. The exec basically said a-mount is a dead man walking.
Cool. So you clearly know when to dump them as well and as you have illustrated NOW is the time to dump them. So please go do it. Your ‘expert’ opinion here is no longer required. And please refrain from the name calling, it wasn’t so long ago you were calling everyone on this site cyber bullies remember?
They released A77 II in order we can continue using legacy glass. But new lenses are probably not part of the plan.
Both Sony and third party lens manufacturers have been and will continue to support A-Mount, for the foreseeable future. No evidence has been presented by you or any other source proving otherwise.
Olympus made (prototypes) 43rds camera and even some top lenses for the 43rds but shelved everything for the m43rds. It is the nature of the beast. I am sure whoever is in charge of the A mount is still pushing their stuff. Whether they will ever get to see the light is another question.
Here’s a pro tip, if you want to kill a system off keep telling the world it is already dead. If you A-Mounters (I am one of them, or at least in glass only these days) want to kill the A-Mount system it’s really easy, keep complaining that it is already dead, people will dump their A-Mount gear and stop investing in A-Mount and sales will slump dramatically and Sony will have no choice but to use the kill switch as it is no longer profitable. This is what it will come down to. It becomes the self fulfilling prophesy.
But if sony will release a A-Mount future plan (lens and camera) there will be not speculate about a-mount dead. Sony is very silent about future and nobody know why. First thought is Sony don`t want to develop A-Mount
What did you hear about Canon new FF and APS cameras to come? Did they give you a full roadmap with cameras? And Nikon? What are their plans for the furure of their camera lines? Are those lines dead too?
Was on the Canon booth at Photokina yesterday. There where many 7dm2 cameras and other DSLRs where more then one camera. Their EOS-m mirrorless was there too, in a corner, one camera.
I was at the Sony booth, many A-mount cameras, both A77m2 and A99 cameras, nothing hidden nothing small. They showed all the A-mount lenses in the open. They showed commitment to the A-mount as part of their Alpha system range…
My heart be still! He didn’t say anything I haven’t. As he looks at his watch today Sony hasn’t put out the word to halt production of a-mount. We knew that already. New products? Crickets. Why no follow-through on making the a-mount the “pro” line beyond the semi-pro a77II? Confirmation Sony clearly is planning to replace a-mount with e-mount? Check. A-mount remains a dead man walking.
Since I decided to upgrade to a new FF body and will need new lenses anyway I’ve switched over to Nikon FF. I’m keeping my Sony SLT APS-C gear so, like many (most?) here, I’ll be in deep with multiple systems. Several others have mentioned packing it in and switching to other systems. Quite frankly, switching brands is a logical FF path for a-mount owners looking to upgrade who aren’t interested in mirrorless or who are into mirrorless but want to keep investing in DSLRs.
I’ve said all along after numerous delays and a lot of foot-dragging Sony will eventually come out with an a99II. Maybe we’ll hear about it in January. Maybe the big announcement in January will be all e-mount (which get’s all the exciting tech a long time before a-mount if a-mount gets it at all) and the a99II announcement gets pushed back to spring or even summer. However, recall all the exciting talk about new a-mount lenses like a 400mm (which I knew at the time was b.s. because Sony hates the a-mount)? Yeah, Canon is displaying a new one at Photokina but don’t expect Sony to ever offer one in the “pro” a-mount line which is so “pro” is sucks for real pros doing sports and wildlife photography.
So the Sony guy might as well said “Sure, we have great things planned for a-mount. It’s the Year of the A-mount after all!”
Andrea mentioned that january thing should be first A-Mount and then shortly afterwards E-Mount
Like the SR5 on Photokina a-mount lenses? Gotcha. Interpreting SAR rumors is dodgy since the rumors themselves are shaky ground. However, I’m reasonably good at it. You could see SAR’s trend line of SAR pre-Photokina rumors and predict the a-mount was going to get nada. So I took a lot of flack and predicted a Photokina a-mount bust which it is. I’m reading the same thing into the January announcement. The question before us is does the wishy-washy, vague endorsement of the a-mount for now really change this? I consider it a joke which only confirms in my mind Sony’s plans to eventually dump the a-mount and a lack of any real commitment.
The argument, at least in my mind, isn’t the a-mount is dead as in discontinued. No, it’s like the movie “The Green Mile” where the death row inmates are referred to as “dead man walking” because eventually when all the appeals and excuses to delay the planned inevitability are over you are dead.
I still expect Sony to put out a few more bodies over the years to keep it alive until the stays of execution are over. Maybe they’ll even refresh some lenses. However, is this a system you really want to hang your hat on? Invest seriously into not knowing what day the hammer will drop?
But Earl, if and when mirrorless catches up to DSLR, said hammer will drop on all SLR mounts alike.
If it doesn’t, Sony will need to invest into A-Mount.
If it does, Sony users will be in the best position for the transition.
In the meantime, while they’re figuring it out, your arguement about the vibrant system stays true though…
“I’ve said all along after numerous delays and a lot of foot-dragging Sony will eventually come out with an a99II.”
Can you please link to an official source noting these delays? There were three years between a900 and a99. Currently the a99 is nearing 2 years old since it was released. Canon’s 5d series is on a 3 year cycle.
Canon’s 7d went nearly 5 years before its successor. Sony’s equivalent, the a77 was replaced only 2.5 years later.
So, again I ask, what numerous delays are you referring to?
People get all worked up on rumours and what every other brand is doing (cumulatively) and then think that they have been betrayed / delayed / lied to whatever.
Very good points, puts thing into perspective. Hopefully we won’t have to wait another year for the A99II (if that’s what it’s going to be called) but the three year life cycle seem to be the norm.
Sony currently has no 5D3-tier camera. A99 has APS-C AF system and competes with 6D at a higher price point.
Canon has 3 FF bodies, Nikon has 5. Sony has 1 entry-level and that’s it.
The A99 competes with the 5DM3 and is priced lower, the Canon has a wider spread of focusing points by lacks all the focusing aids made possible by the OVF. The A99 meets or exceeds the 5DM3’s performance in all other areas.
ATM Sony has no 5D3-tier camera. A99 has APS-C AF system and competes with 6D at a higher price point.
Canon has 3 FF bodies, Nikon has 5. Sony has 1 entry-level and that’s it.
6D and D610/750 have only 1/4000th shutter. They have woeful live view, they have no IBIS, only the D750 (announced this week) has an articulating screen (with the woeful live view isn’t that helpful anyway), none have body controlled focus limiters for all lenses. A99 has AF in video, continuous focus while taking photos and on and on. A99 mightn’t be quite as good all round as the D810 / 5D3 but it IS higher end than the 6D (and guess what, it’s price point sits between them).
I stay corrected, but my point’s still valid. They can keep producing the A99, but a higher-end camera is needed.
True. Though I don’t think they can release an update every time there is something better. Did the A99 miss the mark? Yes it probably did. However they can’t fully predict what everyone else is bringing to market, so when it hit the market it was a ‘solid’ camera but nothing really more.
Many would disagree with you that the a99 is “entry-level”(myself included) however the Canon 6d was released in Nov of 2012, just like the a99, and there is no update for it or rumored update. So…relevance?
It saddens me that, someone, in a Sony office, has to read the terrible shit posted here.
A mount users have never choosen to be at war with E mount users , nor do we want to stop or hurt the progress of the E mount system.
What we do want is to be FULLY INCLUDED in what has the potential to be a great system.
To that means I have suggested fixes such as IBIS in E mount cameras, OSS adapters, and full rapid AF funtionality with A mount and Canikon lenses.
Sony has CHOOSEN not to show us the simple courtesy of including us in thier future.
We do not want to hinder Sony progress but we very much want to be included in it.
Doing these things can only help both E mount and A mount sales.
Agree to an extent, but this is what Sony keep saying over and over, but it is never ever good enough. If you really want Sony to stop developing native glass at all then I suppose they could release Nikon and Canon adapters. OSS is not happening, I see you never responded to my previous post about this, you do have a habit of just ignoring facts and hearing what you want to hear.
Your insistence that image stabilization is unimportant is so foolish that it does not deserve a response.
No, I am talking about your insistence that because Tamron have a patent on some OSS adapter that doesn’t mean that you can have an SLT adapter with OSS.
Lets look at some facts:
IS is a very nice tool to have. That is why it is in some cameras (like A-mount some M43 cameras and in Pentax cameras) and in many lenses (from all other brands but Leica).
Would it be nice when there was an adapter with OSS for the A2Emount? Yes, but I see one small problem:
OSS is based on two totaly different systems: Lens based where a lens element is moved to compensate for the movement or sensor based, where a moving sensor is used to compensate for the movement. none of these systems can be placed in an adapter as the lensbased system would change the lens to much and the sensorbased system would make the adapter a small camera that is operated from the camera body.
How much I would like to see an adapter with OSS (I realy do) I don’t see it comming.
OSS in E-mount cameras is an other thing, but it will be hard to do so, the large cvhip in the small camera will show some problems with making the chip movable, and preventing it from overheating and vignetting…
Sony
Listen to the thousands of complainds by countless dissatisfied A mount users…are there any of them that would not be addressed by providing FULL COMPATABILITY with for us.
Are you replying to yourself?
A circular argument… LOL
Or firing squad.
This war amongst brand loyalist is exactly what will make a mount users leave Sony if a mount gets canned. After all this harassment from e mount crowds, I’m not about to join their ranks.
Yeah, this forum gets crazy with a ‘them’ vs. ‘us’ mentality. We’re all mainly Sony photographers and its sad to read some of these posts.
The sad thing is many e-mounters are into the “kill the a-mount” mindset. Which is obviously frustrating to a-mount owners who I’ve yet see to express anything but hope the e-mount is successful. The more complete and stronger the entire Sony system is in my mind the better.
So true.. If we could have some sort of biblical flood that wiped out the e mount scene and just left the a7 and nex systems, i may not switch but I’d be a whole lot happier with the community.
+1
The whole “Sony should kill A-Mount” routine is just insensitive at this point.
Surely we A-Mount users want the NEX system to flourish. If we ever need a mirrorless camera to complement our DSLR, our first inclination would be to look to E-Mount, right?
E-Mount has been getting all the attention for the last 2 years, yet those people, like pampered kids, demand that the world should revolve solely around them.
Collectively, we could simply ignore a post that projects a ‘mine is better than your’s’ mentality by not capitulating or otherwise responding.
“Which is obviously frustrating to a-mount owners who I’ve yet see to express anything but hope the e-mount is successful…”
LOL. Good one!
Actually, I see as much “kill the e-mount” statements – calling them fanboys, hipsters, kids and such. I do understand the frustration regarding Sony’s lack of a-mount infos, but that isn’t the e-mount users’ fault? Both systems are incredibly good! Stop the E/A war 🙂
Strange, I read more A-mount users who tell me that the A-mount is abandoned by Sony then I see E-mount users telling that. In fact I see more E-mount users telling that Sony will go on supporting th A-mount then the other way arround. Personaly I think Sony will keep on developping the A-mount as long as it is prifitable for them. At the moment DSLR cameras (like the A-mount) outsell the mirrorless cameras by a factor of two! So it is very likely Sony is selling more A-mount cameras then E-mount cameras. But yes at some point, if Sony is not selling any A-mount camera anymore, they will stop producing them, the Same goes for Canon by the way and you don’t have a real mirrorless system from them…
Strange, I am an A- and E-mount user (I own the A700 and the Nex 5. I love these cameras. What I see on this forum are two things:
1. A-mount users telling people that Sony is killing their system, or telling Sony is not giving them the attention (read lenses, cameras etc) they want. and
2. E-mount users who try to explain that the E-mount (and especialy the FF version) needs some extra attentieon (reed lenses) to become a strong system
Many people here forget that the A-mount is allready a strong system. Yes it can get stronger, and Sony did come with the A77m2 and said in the above interview that it will go on developping the A-mount system. What more can they do? Telling you that the next new FF camera will be an A-mount? Or that the next new lens they will announce will be an A-mount?
the whining comes more from the A-mount then from the E-mount users.
I got a lot of A-Mount lensen so I need an A-Mount camera (and no hassle with adapters). It doesn’t have to be SLT though. I would like an A-Mount mirrorless camera with IBIS and Micro-adjustment (lenses are not perfect for high resolution).
Money to replace my A55 is burning in my pocket but there is still no replacement! I like the size of my A55. The A77 is to huge.
I don’t see advantages in E-mount lenses. They are still big lenses. Whats the point? Only the cameras are small, but to small for most of us (althoug I like small camera’s, but E-mount is to small.
Talking about “at the moment”…, Sony is a verry verry dissapointing for me. When will I make the switch…
If someone at Sony is reading (and relaying information):
Stop plans on any lenses for the E mount that are SLR sized.
Japanese prices for the lenses in the EU (plus taxes where applicable). You need to stop the cartel mentality and exploitation.
Better built A7 series bodies with quiet shutter.
Make use of the NFC/WiFi in every camera to support flashes.
For heaven’s sake stop with the Q abominations. Your mobile phones suck and are bleeding money. Ditch that division.
+1 to ditching Xperias.
+100500 to not releasing SLR sized lenses for E-Mount. Instead, release those lenses for SLR.
so, not even Sony knows that A-Mount is dead, dead, dead? How lame 😉
seriously, people are simply expecting too much. what is it what they want, one new camery every second month? plus a handful of new lenses?
btw, of course, at photokina, all A-mount cameras and lenses were present and plenty of them were available for using (on the upper level for example). but that was not Sony’s focus for this fair. they focussed on those things that were new – and that were especially the video things (FS7, 28-135/F4) and the 4D-Autofocus (that could be tested with A5100 and A6000 cameras on a model train setting – and it did well!). Also, for a manufacturer, the A7S is still a “new” camera (as is the A77II btw!), so they are nowhere near “not doing anything”.
When asked what is to come, the Sony people I talked to knew less than the regular SAR reader (not kidding!). For example, the 28-135/F4 lense was introduced to them via press conference on Monday and then they had to show them off from Tuesday morning….
I didn’t ask about A-mount (even though I have some lenses, I am not impatient and actually do not really care a l ot), but I wanted to know when they will put the 4D-AF into a FF-body – some A8S for example. Something I’d buy in an instant. No answer of course. But at least an agreement, that this would indeed make sense for the next camera (of the FF mirrorless line).
You and abortabort are building huge straw men. To argue a-mount fans are asking for anything ridiculous like a body every other month is pure bull$hit. I don’t see a-mount owners asking for anything more than what Sony’s doing with e-mount and, quite frankly, most are asking for less because they sadly expect less at this point.
You are suffering from first child syndrome, Mommy and Daddy (Sony) have a new baby (E-Mount) that seems to get all the attention, so you have constant dummy spits and lash out at Mommy and Daddy and Baby because you aren’t getting the attention. What you don’t understand is that the baby NEEDS more attention AND you are actually still getting the same amount of attention you were before, it’s just that baby is getting more attention than you.
In reality the ONLY thing that has changed with A-Mount in the 7 years I have been using it, in terms of product releases etc, is that Sony are no longer piling on hundreds of variations of low end bodies such as the A300 series, A200, A450 etc. That is it. On the flip side Sony have ramped up release schedules of the high end bodies in return to be only around 2 years or so, which is an absolute bloody miracle in itself after the wait for an A700 and A900 replacements.
The fact that you are asking for the same treatment as baby absolutely validates this argument. So go enjoy your Nikon (your new family that you will find that will treat you right and you’ll always be the centre of attention there when you “run away for good this time!”).
Unfortunately, idiot, I can’t shoot pictures with an infant. To write off a-mounters wanting new bodies to upgrade which fulfills Sony’s promise of it being a “pro” line isn’t jealousy, fool. Ditto looking for lenses to fill out holes in their system or looking at lens refreshes.
Resorting to name calling, crude play Earl. Can’t shoot pictures with a baby? Wow, what a come back. Ever heard of an analogy? Sorry “Sony’s” promise of what? You mean “the internet hearsay” of it being the “Pro” line right? It is jealousy and you have proven it with this venomous response. Looking for what lenses in particular Earl? Like an updated 35mm f1.4 or Macro? Maybe the long asked for but never delivered 70-200mm f4? Can you see where this is going?
Actually, it was part of a Sony slide deck. If you want to pretend a-mount is a vibrant system you’re living in a fantasy world. If you think all your mom and daddy b.s. isn’t as insulting or worse than anything I’ve said you’re clueless, hypocrite.
I’m sorry Earl, it IS how you are behaving. A vibrant system? Yes and no. It is as vibrant as it has ever been with more lenses than it has ever had, with better sensors than it has ever had, with better AF, better live view, better video, better IBIS, better coatings, faster release cycles and a supporting mirrorless system that compliments it like NO other brand can even remotely achieve. Thing is Earl, it is YOU who is so utterly anti-E-Mount, yet you think it is against you. E-Mount is so bloody complimentary to A-Mount that you can have both an SLT and a mirrorless system that work in an amazing harmony you won’t find anywhere else. A system is now (thanks to Sony) more than just a single type of body with a single type of lens, a myopic plan, it is now video cameras and semi pro video camera and small body cameras and smallish body enthusiast cameras and semi pro stills cameras that all work together. But for you a Nikon is a better choice, as I can see you only two things: A big DSLR with all the best ‘specs’ and a big lens lineup of which you will likely own half a dozen, but it makes you feel more comfortable in knowing there are more out there. So it is a good move for you, I have been saying for a while that you should and I am happy to hear that you have.
Your analogy is flawed.
Parents take care of a baby because they love the baby.
We don’t expect ‘love’, it’s not an emotional relationship, it’s a producer-customer relationship. We paid Sony money for their products are willing and ready to pay more, if these products fit our needs.
It seems pretty emotional if you ask me reading the comments around here.
Mommy and daddy are gonna cry if this many a mount users run away. You think any of us appreciate the e mount crowd at this point? I’m personally more likely to go Nikon just because of how venomous you twats have been. Sony can have their baby if they’re content with having Rosemary’s baby!
Bingo!
Sorry, but if every time I come here to read about what Sony imaging are doing all I get to read about are the dummy spits and whinges I am going to call them on it. I don’t care if you leave, the more of the CONSTANT complainers such as Earl that leave, the less I will have to hear from them.
LOL
well said!!!
Yeah, he did really well for someone suffocating with his head shoved up his a$$. ;^)
I see this hit a nerve… I guess getting called on your behaviour hits on a nerve.
Unlike you’re mommy and daddy posts which preceded, troll? Serious question. How stupid are you? Seriously.
You are upset… Maybe you need to have a lay down? How stupid am I? Not sure what kind of response you are looking for for that, do you expect me to say that I AM stupid? That would be pretty stupid of you wouldn’t it? And it is “your” not “you’re”.
I hoped a-mount will also get mirrorless technology (smaller body and weight) in the future, and won’t keep the translucent technology (not to lose light). Now, for me its clear how Sony is seeing the future, which means I have to change If I want samller size and weights of the gear… The question is it worth choosing Sony (NEX or now also alpha… like a6000) or should I choose another brand as anyway I have to sold my a-lenses (as there is no OSS included in my Zeiss etc. lensses so they can not be used 100% for e-mount system). ITs not so good news… m43 has my attention, it maybe less innovation but I at least I dont have to sell my lenses after 5 years….
Tell that to those who bought into Four Thirds.
Go and witness the e mount crowd here on SAR and you’ll be convinced fuji has less cunts.
Yes you are right, buy into m43 and your great Sony lenses will not loose any functionality, as AF is no functionality is it? Remember that OSS can be put to any lens, and far better then 4 stops they claim by just using a big new invention, very inovative, called a tripod! AF can not be added to lenses that easely and cheaply…
I think you missunderstand what Iam trying to tell. If I can not see the future in a-mount anymore, then I have to move. And for me, at least, it seems either way: I choose sony or something else, I can not use my lenses properly. The adapter is not the best option (especially if you want smaller gear, not bigger), you know also that tripod is not always the solution, it depends on the topic… So If I choose e-mount or m43… I can sell my existing lenses and by new ones. So why should I choose sony again ?
Every quarter Sony is changing its strategic direction in photography. It shows that the highest managment is continuously dissatisfied with the results and pushing poor camera division to come up with some breakthrough. And obviously mistakes are made. This is clearly an internal political problem which eventually may even kill any edge (not just a leading edge) of the division. They have to learn the lesson from Fuji and Olympus, that a breakthrough absolutely not enough it must be followed by long consolidation and improvement period (new iterations of the same product or line). This strong demand for breakthroughs can have catastrophic effects.
You talk as if you have some kind of inside knowledge, which of course, you do not.
Really? Sony should learn from Fuji? I guess so they can have a dismal market share. Also this is not Sony changing strategy, this is people buying into rumours as fact and when they don’t come off they claim that Sony changed strategy.
I wonder, Sony has 40% market share in mirrorless. They came with the A7x mirrorless cameras and show strong support for it. They came with a new A77 camera, that got great reviews, And you say that the management changes every quarter its direction, based on what facts?
And then compare Sony with Fuji is just a big joke. Yes Fuji gets good reviews and is praised loudly for some great innovations (think of the hybrid O/EVF, the xtrans sensor and the “inovative” classic rangefinder look. And there is the high quality of the lenses, praised by many but bought by few… Fuji is not outselling Sony, it is a small nich market, like Leica is.
And didn’t Olympus gave Sony a big financial injection to keep the company running? Oh no it was Sony who came with the bag of money! Look at the sales of Fuji, Olympus and Panasonic, they all fall behind to Sony!
Mr.
Aoki,
It may or may not be a communication issue but your statement on the FE lenses
does not reassure me as to Sony’s capacity or willingness to formulate and keep
long term plans for it’s systems and the statements on SLT vs mirrorless reads
very much to me that any continued Alpha mount products would be in order to
retain sales only up to the moment where they can be discontinued in favor of
your latest line.
You have stated in the past that Sony does not want to be a traditional camera
brand like Canon and Nikon and insisted very much on your electronics
advantage. No doubt that point has been proved and I do not think that anybody
can complain about this integration at the engineering level. I am a bit less
thrilled at the idea of Sony’s electronics road mapping being folded into the
Digital Imaging division.
I am a traditional photo enthusiast consumer in the sense that when spend a
substantial amount of money on a lens it comes with the expectation to be able
to use it a decade from now. For the first time in a long time I am questioning
that expectation, as do other alpha mount users and unlike anybody that I know
who has chosen another brand.
I do not have the pretention to give advice on what the future of the Alpha Mount should
be from a Sony’s perspective. However, from a consumer’s perspective I
certainly do not feel like I have a good enough overview of what that future is
in order to make an informed decision to invest in an Alpha mount when I
eventually upgrade to a full frame system.
Best regards,
Clearly, Sony could not say anything that would kill the remaining market for A mount more than it already has. However, the statement that “we cannot see mirrorless technology overtaking the translucent sensor technology” is clearly a nonsense.
The fact is (and from my own experience) the performance of the newer mirrorless cameras is every bit as good or beyond the A99.
Furthermore, it would be ridiculous for a company to ignore the basic sales figures that demonstrate where the future market lies (and it isn’t A mount based!).
Of course, this issue does not revolve around size, but capability. For Sony to knock Canon and Nikon of the top step when it comes to sports and journalism they need to have the fast big zooms and the support fully set up, regardless of mount. I can’t see either happening in the near future and with the constraints of Sony’s recent financial performance, they will have no choice but to chase the immediate market share.
“The fact is (and from my own experience) the performance of the newer mirrorless cameras is every bit as good or beyond the A99.”
Then your experience is very limited.
Or nonexistent.
To A77II and TZ, I take close to 250,000 pictures a year, professionally, and have many cameras. So, your basis for your ‘smart alec’ replies?
“So, your basis for your ‘smart alec’ replies?”
Insecurity about A-mount’s future.
I could care less about your claims. The basis for my reply is that you couldn’t be any more wrong about the comparative AF performance between mirrorless and the A99 and THAT speaks volumes regarding your “experience”.
I have both the A7 and the A99 and I know in almost every case in the real world the A7 is faster at focusing than the A99. You may think differently, but when it matters and my living is at stake I’m happy putting my faith in the A7.
I have never said the A99 is not a fantastic camera, indeed I love it, but time moves on and progress is made.
If Sony can maintain the progress, whatever shape the body is or mount used, I’ll be satisfied. I don’t understand why people such as you have some strange axe to grind over certain aspects of a product.
And what if Sony comes up with and updated A900/A850 camera and ditch SLT altogether. That would save the A/Minolta mount users, and would keep those lenses and their production alive. Would you buy an A950 with a 36MP sensor?
Personally, I really like the EVF aspects of the SLT line. However, I ended up picking up a Nikon with OVF (which I generally don’t as much) so obviously it doesn’t kill the deal for me. I’d much prefer a vibrant Sony system with an OVF than a pretty stagnant one like the SLT line-up has become. I know for a lot of people the ISO hit of the translucent mirror is a deal-killer. Would it save the brand? Probably not. The a-mount’s troubles are deeper than just a killer body.
Why is a Nikon user on this board helping to create doubts about Sony A mount cameras? Troll much nikon fanboy?
Not the EVF/OVF debate again….
When the EVF A55 was released it walked all over Sony dSLR sales, even Sony said they were surprised at the reception, so surprised that they ditched plans for the A750 and released only the EVF A77.
There isn’t the massive groundswell of support for OVF that you think there is, it is dead, move on.
Back into stone age?
No thanks
That would do for me, yabba dabba doooooooo!!!!!!!
Betty Rubble was hot! 😀
I would buy an slt with a 36mp sensor. Otherwise i could look to the same sensor in a Nikon but enjoy the support of 60 years worth of f mount lenses to boot.
60 years of lenses of which 90% are not suitable for use on a high resolution digital camera. But the make nice knickknacks.
That would require greater expense for Sony and higher prices for consumers to go back to OVF/SLR. The manufacturing lines are setup for SLT and there is shared expense / economy of scale for the EVF tech with a7 bodies. Plus, Sony would lose the differentiation of the aXX series versus the competition.
OVF is dead, move on.
All currently produced professional cameras have optical viewfinders, both 135mm and medium format.
Not for long, the next generation of pro cameras and especially medium format will be migrating to EVF’s.
And Santa Claus will deliver them with flying reindeer!
Seriously, optical viewfinders have a number of advantages electronic viewfinders will never have, and that’s why they are not going away. For example infinite resolution, infinite dynamic range, infinite refresh rate, 0.000ns lag etc… And please don’t forget that in situations where EVFs are great, such as product photography in a studio environment, current professional cameras (with OVFs) are shot tethered, with a calibrated pro monitor acting as the EVFs. Pros are already using the best of both worlds. Having a compromised EVF in camera robs you of all the advantages of an OVF in the field while not being good enough for pro studio shooting, where you’ll end up shooting tethered using a calibrated monitor just like every other pro.
Some of the advantages you mention are not so relevant in use.
No lag assumes that the reaction time of your finger is zero, which it isn’t. Most top photographers use a good deal of prediction in any case, so it only needs to adjust your timing.
Also, infinite DR and infinite resolution assumes way beyond perfect eyesight. Our eyes are actually very limited and the EVF supports, rather than detracts. As to refresh rate, do you see the awful flickering while sitting at home with the lights on? Of course you don’t. The lights flicker endlessly, but your vision is so slow it tricks you into thinking the light is constant.
Certainly, you prefer the experience of an OVF, but that is not the same as the abilities it has compared to EVF.
Exactly! I have Sony HX400V with 24-1200 super Zeiss and electron fewfinder! It’s so awesome and stellar! The future and generations ahead I say! I can watch superbowl on Sony tv through HX400V super fewfinder with superzoom and see every little details on the playing field! Like super closeup zoom and only 1lbs!!! Super high resolution Sony tv and magnified by super HX400V fewfinder = total stellar awesomess!!!! I safe moneys and get secnd HX400V for 3D stereo viewing! So cool!
“infinite resolution”, “infinite dynamic range”, “infinite refresh rate”, “0 lag” all go to show that you don’t really understand the end to end optical system involved in a through the lens viewing system. Also you completely ignore any advantage EVF has in your special display of specialness.
It doesn’t matter how great a viewfinder is, what matters is what the sensor captures and an Electronic View Finder gets you closer to that.
The view finder is merely a way of composing the shot (the clue is in the name “view finder”) it does not record the image. The raw image captured looking through a view finder is then cooked a bit by the camera, it is then processed on a computer to the photographers liking and then displayed/printed on yet another device to the photographers liking.
At the end of that process you end up with an image that is nothing like what your eyes saw through the view finder. It is what you *think* your eyes saw, the view finder technology is irrelevant.
Let me ask you this, how many videographers and movie producers still use optical view finders?
Read my reply above, count yourself one of them along with Sam.
That’s right. That’s the reason why Canikon are (still), the two largest OVF camera manufacturers, and why most top selling cameras are (still) dead OVF’s. Oh wait…
The true reason is because they lack the technology to implement live view DVF, they can only implement live view on the rear screen.
In the context of a Sony forum I am obviously talking about Sony, but then sometimes I forget that some of the audience here are imbeciles that need it spelling out for them.
So… who was the imbecile that posted the blanket statement in a forum where “context” means so little and “obvious” really means oblivion (where you’re concerned). That’s right! You.
Sony posts huge huge loses in 2014 from 500 to 2300.
Most of that is mobile.
……. and TV’s.
Today i saw an graphic, showing the loss and gain per departement.
Overall Sony makes profit.
LOL , Overall Sony loses 4x more than they projected Sony
fanboys are almost as innumerate as Olympus fanboys
I assume you mean Sony Imaging is profitable as clearly Sony is not this year.
I wonder how much of those profits are from camera sales vs. sensor sales.
I wish Sony would never have taken over Minolta. 🙁
What do you think would have happened to A-mount then?
Don’t know, but Sony now pretty much killed Konica Minolta. Every other option could only be better or at worst equally bad. Come on, they “want to keep developing” … So they can’t even say that they will keep developing, just that they “want” to? That’s really “we want, but can’t”. Huge loss is bad, investors are not photo enthusiasts.
I’m glad Sony took over. Don’t forget all the inovative stuff Sony released over the years. I’m still a very happy user!
Yeah, but all the great E and FE stuff is not Minolta, Sony could have done that alone. Meanwhile, Minolta could have gone their own way by improving and expanding their system. Sony has done little for the Minolta system, still mostly the old Minolta designed lenses and no new DSLRs. All the cool Sony gear is pure Sony, they don’t need Minolta for that.
No, Minolta couldn’t do anything. They went out of business.
Minolta expanding their system? What on Earth are you talking about?
I suggest that you Google Minolta, you’ll realise how wrong you are. 😉
What killed Minolta was multiple lawsuits that lasted from the mid 80’s up into the mid 90’s. At that time Canon and Nikon took advantage and started growing an impressive ecosystem of lenses and bodies. Despite all the great innovation, Minolta was left behind. It’s a real shame to because in many ways they created some of the most innovative products in photo history- back in the 70’s even Leica was copying them. When the dynax 9 came out it was an absolute beast- still is. But, because it gained no marketing attention it failed. Who does that sound like? Sony. People can say Sony ruined Minolta but I would completely disagree. If anything, Sony continued doing the same exact things as Minolta. They’ve made some great innovations but again….no focus on marketing and building a complete ecosystem of lenses and accessories and there you go.
The only company that “killed” Konica Minolta is Konica Minolta.
the only other option would have been Konica Minolta dropping the axe on A-mount in 2006/07. They sold Minolta because the photo branch loose money and wanted to cut the dead arm to focus on the beneficial part (professionnal printer machine).
A few years ago, everyone was complaining about there being loads of A mount cameras with little differentiation (recall the days when there was an alpha 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 and 9xx at the same time?). Now Sony has fixed that, and theres only a 5, 7, 9, with no overlap. And now people complain that there’s only three models…
Then people complain about the lack of lenses (the differences are far less than you think when you count both IS and non IS lenses as the same lens for competing mounts), and the lack of commitment (Sony now has APS-C FF DSLR, APS-C and FF mirrorless, advanced compacts and totally new formats such as QX, many of which are best in class… and they ALWAYS make their own sensors, something that few competitors can do). And its still the end of the world and ‘Oh, Sony want to kill my mount’ rather than ‘Wow, Sony have a really nice varied imaging ecosystem range here, including ranges that competitors are years away from getting close to: lots of investment to get this far in 10 years!’. But no, apparently Sony are pulling out of ‘real cameras’ and putting out toys.
Oh, and video. ‘My Sony Alpha doesnt do video like a GH4! Why oh why!’, rather than ‘Oh, the GH4 is really nice for video, but its a really mediocre stills camera: all their eggs are in one basket, and their lens range contains no competing third party and almost nothing of any use in wide’.
Hell, Sony may even have a medium format camera in the wings. And still people say ‘I’m going over to Canon’.
Maybe, just maybe, the market has just become very competitive, and Sony are being tight lipped because they don’t want Canon to get any chance to respond. The A77 ii was not known about until right at the end (and its working because Sony have caught us all out with a few surprise releases), and I expect the A99ii is the same.
My advice, buy the most competitive brand for every range you use. I have Sony for stills, Blackmagic for video, and Panasonic/Olympus for advanced compact, because each produce the best camera for that range. I also tried Panasonic GHx, but it was not for me… but that’s fine: ebay is wonderful. Start looking at models not labels and life becomes much easier 🙂
Much ado…
No one believes A mount will continue forever and nothing Sony can possibly do will convince people of that fact because it’s just not true.
A mount users need a way to make thier existing lenses every bit as funtional on E mount cameras as native E mount lenses.
Sony has the ability to make that happen but stubbornly chooses not to.
A mount users would happily embrace an E mount system that included them.
The fact that Sony is DELIBERATELY turning its best customers into it’s worst enemies totally does not make sense to me.
>nothing Sony can possibly do will convince people of that fact because it’s just not true
Why would you say that?
They’d have to make an effort after the last two years of uncertainty and ambiguity, but still.
If they release an A99-II, 35mmZA, 16-35 f/4, 24-105 f/4, 70-200 f/4, 400 f/4 and a roadmap for A-Mount for 2015-2016, wouldn’t you be convinced?
Yes. I’d be convinced.
Yes, quite right, Sony ARE deliberately not making an E-Mount camera that has IBIS and only making a very basic SLT AF adapter, because otherwise that REALLY would kill A-Mount forever. So as long as Sony are still trying to make A-Mount cameras / lenses this is likely to still occur to some degree, as soon as they aren’t you can watch the LA-EA’s and IBIS E-Mounts come rolling off the production lines. Maybe this is worth thinking about before all the proclamations of A-Mount’s death. If they intended for it to be dead they would be rolling this out already as they automatically have a bunch of great glass they can flog to E-Mount users. Oh and I am an A-Mount user and have already “happily embraced E Mount”.
>they automatically have a bunch of great glass they can flog to E-Mount users
Doubtful…
Would you really buy a 24-70ZA specifically to use it with an adapter?
If they had a body that suites it why the hell not?
Yes. Why wouldn’t I buy it (assuming that was the kind of lens I was in to, which it isn’t)?
I’m not sure, it’s just odd. You don’t see this happening a lot. When buying from scratch, people usually buy a system, not a body with one mount and a lens with another mount and an adapter to connect them.
I could go for a M42 Peleng with an adapter, but that’s a special MF lens, not primary-application.
Well mostly because this hasn’t really been an option before more than anything. Quite a number of people buy E-Mount (especially FE) cameras for flexibility, not so much size (I fit into that camp). While I can appreciate now that I can have a small mirrorless camera as well as a big DSLR (SLT) type camera with the one base body or at least the one system, it would be even better for that if we didn’t get a ‘gimped’ adapter (to continue the A-Mount line) and no IBIS (not that that bothers me in the slightest). With a camera with those things you could choose between A-Mounts that don’t exist in E-Mount (such as f2.8 zooms) or some of the new E-Mounts that don’t exist in A-Mount (such as the f4 zooms, new Macro, new 35mm, 28-135mm ENG lens, 55mm etc). So you can simply use either that suits what you need. Lower development costs for Sony means more cameras, better specified, more often.
OK, I see the point for E-Mount users.
But why do you say that a full-featured adapter would kill A-Mount forever?
People who shoot A-Mount would still need A-Mount bodies.
Why? I think you are thinking about A-Mount bodies as they currently make them vs E-Mount bodies as they currently make them, these are just products, there is no reason why an E-Mount camera can’t be just like a current A-Mount body but the mirrorbox / AF motor is detachable (with an E-Mount behind). Or heck, keep the AF motor IN the body and just have an extension screw in the adapter like Macro tubes and teleconverters have.
Sooo… I get an A99-sized E-Mount body with an adapter with SLT mirror and fast AF and IBIS and it fully supports all AF options and fuctions of the body.
I leave the adapter permanently on, since I only use A-Mount lenses.
Meanwhile, I get an option to use native FE f/2.8 zooms in the future when they come out, as well as current FE lenses.
For the sake of argument, let’s say the adapter is super solid when working with heavy lenses.
Will they continue to develop new A-Mount lenses?
Probably unlikely, but maybe. It would be more of case of continuing them while there is no E-Mount alternative. It’s a transition, I would imagine that the majority of new lenses would be for the mount being transitioned to.
No no no, we aren’t talking transition. We don’t know if mirrorless AF will ever catch up to DSLR.
What you’re basically saying is, with a proper adapter there will be no more use for dedicated A-Mount bodies.
It’s still an SLT system, but the SLT module is now removable.
A-Mount system is just lenses from now on, with all E-Mount bodies, right?
So, will they expand and develop the A-Mount lens system?
Well you asked what I thought Sony would do, not what would be ‘best’ so to speak.
As for whether on sensor AF will eventually get better than dedicated PDAF, Here is my take:
Sensor based AF already provides better accuracy.
Sensor AF has already shown to perform to lower light levels.
Sensor AF has increased it capability in the last few years at a far more significant rate than dedicated modules.
Sony makes and sells cameras, a smallish percentage of which use a dedicated PDAF module. On the other hand Sony makes sensors and sells them to the majority of brands for a huge proportion of all cameras sold. Sony is much more likely to invest money in sensor AF as it will get a higher return on investment than developing dedicated modules for their own cameras. This means that development will continue to be much faster for Sensor AF.
Sensor AF is more easily and cost effectively scaled to a larger part of the image area. Again making it cheaper and easier which means more development.
So that is why I think they will move more and more towards sensor AF.
You are claiming that if Sony leveled the playing field so A mount users could decide fairly which system they want they would choose Emount…
Well if that is true then let them choose rather than impose artificial limits to force thrn to choose something else.
Nobody is in the business of just providing choice so they said that they did. Sony are not going to spend millions developing and tooling and making a camera so that nobody will buy it or that people ‘may’ buy something else. There is a reason there is product segmentation. If you want them to produce an E-Mount that does everything an A-Mount does, you wil have to accept that they will no longer produce new A-Mounts, understand? So so long as Sony want to sell A-Mount cameras they will not do what you are asking for, as soon as they decide to stop selling A-Mounts you will very very very likely get exactly what you are asking for.
Totally backwards.
As a consumer I buy the product I need or want.
It is not my job to support Sony.
It IS Sony’s job to build products I want to buy.
*sigh*
No. Sony aren’t going to bring out two otherwise identically positioned cameras aimed at the exact same users just so you can choose, because end of the day you will only choose one, the other goes unsold. This isn’t “You supporting Sony”. Consumer entitlement gone horribly wrong I guess, Sony should chuck heaps and heaps of money out the window just for Barry’s sake? Either you buy the products they release or you don’t, either they made the right products or they didn’t, but making two products to compete with each other for your $ is corporate suicide.
It’s not exactly suicide. It’s A/B testing, and Sony has done it before. The A580 and the A55 came out at the same time and were directly comparable choices for the consumer: OVF vs EVF. Granted, they completely botched the marketing of the A580 and in so doing biased their results, but the takeaway from that test was the discontinuation of the SLR line in favor of the SLTs.
Not entirely correct. It’s A/B testing, and Sony’s done it before. They released the A580 and the A55 at the same time, even though both products were aimed at the same market. And though they completely botched the A580 marketing and biased the results of the test, the takeaway was that the future was decided to be SLT, not SLR, and the latter’s development was concluded.
Users were allowed to decide which one they preferred.
1. Whatever.
2. I hope so.
3. Yes.
4. How did you get that idea? It is for Sony to decide what is its job and what it wants to do.
Consumers do decide what it is Sony’s job to do.
TV consumers, computer consumers, cellphone consumers have all been telling Sony how to do thier job and Sony has not listened.
In the real world if you dont do what your boss says you get fired.
A mount users have been telling Sony what to do and they have not been listening…there is only one possible consequence to those actions.
Whats wrong with some of you! The A77ii was released in JUNE 2014. Its September 2014. That was 3 months ago. The A77ii is a fantastic camera with a major updates to its focusing system and SLT mirror. Sony wouldnt spend the time or money to make that camera, if they had given up on the Amount.
I think its about the technology. I mean, probabaly “everybody” expects mirrorles technology for a-mount instead of translucent technology.. but maybe Iam wrong…
Actually I think it was because it was perceived to be a smallish upgrade (mostly because the ‘look’ didn’t change and no MP increase), when in reality it wasn’t, it’s just that the A77 was so groundbreaking at the time (with a few flaws resolved in the MkII) that it didn’t seem like a big jump forward.
However I still look around today, a couple days after Canon finally showed their hand with the 7D II at the high end APS-C SLR market and I still can’t see anything that is as well rounded as the A77 II (and certainly cheaper than the 7D II).
You’re wrong. For many people, SLT is the best. And mirrorless A-Mount isn’t going to happen. If Sony goes all-mirrorless, it will be just E-Mount.
Why? I have slt-a55 and I would immediately change to a mirrorless a-mount body (like a6000). More light in a less weight body with fast focus system (on chip af points).
“If Sony goes all-mirrorless, it will be just E-Mount.” – yep, thats what I think, at least for me, a-mount seems a dead end :
Mirrorless AF is so far incomparable with DSLR at the same tier. See A77-II vs. A6000
“Small body” is a disadvantage for those of us who want a big body
yep, we are different with different demands. The question is how many from which side 🙂 I can check the A77 focus capability, but for me (probably for others) the A6000 would be enough. By the way I read good articles about a6000 focusing system (and sharp picture hit rate). For me more light would be better then the hit rate…
Yep for me smaller body (traveling point of view), for you bigger body 😉
HEY WHAT? Your comment makes sense? What’s up with that? 😉
But no, you’re wrong. Unless we see three new FF A-mount bodies within this year, including 10 new lenses ranging from 14 to 600mm, including 3 macro’s and 6 Tilt-shift lenses, A-mount is doooooooooooooooomed!!!! Oh and include a lens/body/accessoire/lenscap/cleaning cloth roadmap for the next decade with 10 lenses a year!!!
That’s time and money spent in 2012-2013 developing the camera, a time when they certainly were still developing a-mount.
If the strategy changed in late 2013-2014, they still would have had the a77ii ready to go.
Agreed about timing; A77II is still pretty fresh. As to your other point, though; if they are ditching A-mount (seems likely to me – just a matter of when), some camera will have to be their last one…
I see Barry and Earl have gone very very quiet on the “imminent” release by Canon of super high MP stacked sensor 5D and 7D cameras coming at photokina that were going to put everything Sony does to shame? The competition were going to so far exceed Sony and their supposedly pushed back release date was going to bury them. Now, crickets, because (as usual) they were just plain wrong (and buying into rumour hype as fact). The 7D is universally a let down, except for D300 owners still hoping for a D400 (a dream which seemed close for a moment when word of a D700 replacement was in the wings but turned out to be a tartied up D610).
Canon is announcing a 46Mp 1Ds X at PhotoPlus 2014.
http://www.dailycameranews.com/2014/09/rumor-canon-46mp-pro-dslr-at-photoplus-2014/
You mean Canon are “rumored” to announce a 46MP 1DS X at photoplus. They were “rumored” to release a 46MP 5D at photokina. Even if they do, considering Sony don’t play in this market anyway it’s kind of a moot point. It also means that there is another big camera trade show coming up very soon, is it possible that Sony decided to announce E-Mount stuff at Photokina and A-Mount at photoplus? Could this be why suddenly A-Mount gear that was supposed to be coming suddenly went quiet? It seems unlikely that Sony will announce nothing at all new at photoplus and there isn’t much on the E-Mount rumor mill that hasn’t been announced yet. So photoplus ‘could’ be the A99 II launch and RX2, it also partly explains the non committal response from Sony above if the launch is imminent.
If Sony announced that same camera today 90% of people here would bitch that it was to expensive and Sony was purposely pricing themselves out of the market to kill A-mount. The looneytoons would expect it to be $2,000+/- or they wouldn’t buy it.
Ok, this boosted my confidence in the a-mount future, but only very very slightly.
If you look at the question, he was explicitly asked if they were ending the a-mount.
I wish the answer was an unqualified, “we will continue to develop the a-mount and you will see exciting new products in the near future” ( this is basically what they were saying a year ago)
Now their answer is, “for the moment” we are developing it, and “we gave you something recently”
Plenty of wiggle room in that answer. The answer could have been even worse, but it really wasn’t a great answer.
As I see it. If Sony provides full compatibility with old A-mount lenses on E-mount system people will slap $20 old Minolta lenses on FF E-mount systems then rant “OMFG this isn’t quality Sony sucks.” You know it will happen and most likely happen via Sony trolls. Just like it happened with super wide angle lenses on the A7, but on a much larger scale with much cheaper lenses.
Note: I’d dearly love to have my quality A-mount lenses to be usable on E-mount systems without losing Stabilization. Losing stabilization and the need to buy new E-mount lenses is what is keeping me from purchasing an E-mount body. I love my current lenses, I do not want new overpriced E-mount “Zeiss” lenses. Meanwhile, I’m still VERY happy with my A99 and current lenses.
This can already happen.
Yes, but no in body stabilization when using A-mount adapters is whats keeping the lions share of A-mount users away from E-mount. Well, and the size difference of putting an adapter and my 70-400 G on an A7r.
Yeah, but that’s not really what you were talking about is it? You were talking about putting cheap old terrible glass on there and complaining about the IQ, not putting the 70-400mm G on there and having an imbalance of size.
Words like, “for the moment” aren’t encouraging. The guy even references the fact that- at the present time- mirror less hasn’t over taken SLT. But, it’s what’s between the words that’s most revealing. I think Sony expects mirror less to take over and as much as I love A mount I can now say it’s official- we’re in the wind down phase of the system. It won’t be tomorrow, or maybe even the next two years but it will happen.
Agreed. The only thing his statement kinda half-promises is that A-mount might not be dead yet this year. As soon as the mirrorless matches the SLT performance, though…
That statement posted makes me fell that Sony is all in for the E-mount. Once they match the performance with their mirrorless systems the a- mount will be gone. I feel that Sony looks at a- mount as slt and e- mount as mirrorless. I would hope that mirrorless will find its way to the A- mount but I have my doubts.
Once mirrorless catches up to DSLR (if ever), all SLR will be gone, not just Sony, Canon / Nikon as well.
There’s no sense in producing mirrorless A-Mounts.
Yes there is, we do need A mount mirrorless big body with IBIS and full set of buttons for professional use, not tiny inconvenient bodies!!! The bigger the body is, the more space for IBIS and buttons and better balance for wide open heavy lens!
E-Mount big body with IBIS and full set of buttons for professional use.
I guess I am looking at it from a present day sort of thing. Their body types. I tried to put my 70-400 on a 5n. Was not a pleasant shooting experience. Navigating menus of the nex system was more daunting than button placement on my 99. Adapters for my present a mount isn’t that big of a deal but I wish it wasn’t half the price of many lenses. Maybe Sony has no idea of its direction or they are just deceiving us A-mount users to keep us from considering moving to Nikon or canon. They make comments that keep us thinking they will keep advancing the a- mount when it seems clear that e- mount is where their ship is heading. Just be up front and let me know so I can make better choices. Don’t piss down my back and tell me it’s raining. I don’t want to buy another a- mount lens if it is just going to be another lens that I need an adapter for my new e- mount camera. Lenses were always good investments. I cannot say that about A-mount lenses.
A3500.
I hope you are implying that they can make that type of body because it would not make sense to put an adapter on a 3500 if you have a 99. If the future of speed and accurate autofocus is five years from now, I would hope Sony would do what canon and Nikon is doing and continue to push the envelope with their a mount
I’m saying that they can make an A99-type E-Mount body with IBIS.
And if mirrorless AF catches up to DSLR, that’s what they are gonna do.
Until then – yes, I hope too they continue to push A-Mount.
But when and if it happens, they aren’t gonna make A-Mount mirrorless.
I can live with that.
Why would you want a mirrorless A-Mount? The only thing you are gaining is limiting your lens choice to only A-Mount, doesn’t seem like much of a positive.
So? With E-mount you’re limited to E-mount lenses if you want fast auto-focus performance w/o adapters.
So your choice is a) limit to just A-Mount or b) option of both E-Mount and A-Mount, but A-Mount requires an adapter and your choice is a)? People are bizarre.
You have to consider use. If I’m just going out to shoot a sunset or doing some street photography, do I care about using an adapter? No, not really. If I’m shooting a wedding or convention, though – needing to get the shots quickly and getting paid for results – I don’t want that additional point of weakness and potential failure. I don’t think that’s so hard to grasp, and I doubt you’d find many pros that disagree with that point. So given that, my only point is that the e-mount isn’t any less limiting than a-mount in terms of practical professional use. Now, in terms of general shooting – fine art, etc. – yes, the e-mount opens up a whole new world of lenses one can use, and truly is a groundbreaking system. I have a few A-mount cameras and several lenses, and I just recently picked up an E-mount and am starting to build on that, so I’m not anti- either of the mounts. Let’s recognized that the professional A-mounters have legitimate concerns, though.
Ok, which is a bit like saying “I won’t use lenses with IS as there is more to go wrong” or “I won’t use lenses with AF” because there is more to go wrong”, or “I won’t drive a fuel injected car because there is more to go wrong”. “I refuse to use a battery grip as it’s another point of failure”, “I won’t use a tripod with base plate because that is another contact point” and so on.
Let me ask you this, other than the ‘genuine concern’ of pros, have you actually read of anyone having issues like what you describe?
Fair points, I suppose, though presented like an a**hole. Maybe I’m just burned out on always needing an adapter for every damn little thing with Sony. First we needed a hotshoe adapter to use any ISO flashes/accessories on our Minolta-hotshoe cameras, then we needed an adapter again to use our Minolta flashes/accessories on the new ISO(ish) mount. Now we’ll need an adapter just to use our flippin’ lenses. You always either have to use adapters or buy all new crap with Sony. We put up with it because they put out some pretty cool stuff, but it’s just getting a little tiresome. Your mileage may vary…
Well that’s fair enough. On the flip side often there is no adapter, you just have to ditch and start again… that’s ‘progress’ I guess. Sony have been pretty good thus far for maintaining compatibility with legacy gear.
“You always either have to use adapters or buy all new crap with Sony.”
Of course. But then nothing lasts forever… Except Nikon
Olympus have abandoned the OM mount and the full size 4/3 mount within the lifespan of the Minolta AF mount…
Canon abandoned the FD mount when Eos came out…
Kyocera abandoned the C/Y mount when AF came along (stupidly splitting Contax and Yashica to separate mounts).
Minolta also abandoned MD at that time…
Pentax abandoned the M42 mount in the early 70s, as did many others including Fuji who pulled out of the 35mm(-ish) market entirely in the 80s…
Kyocera and Minolta did the same in the 2000s.
Canon obsoleted all of their EZ-series TTL flashes with the move to Digital…
Even Hasselblad changed mount to bring in AF and eventually dropped Zeiss lenses and their original lens mount.
In short, based on history you shoulda bought a Nikon.
what about the more light ? by the way my slt-a55 (ok its not a pro body, but its mine :)) is suffering with ghost effect. It can be very well seen sometimes in my night pictures…
Yes but if they make a mirrorless A-Mount they can just as easily make an E-Mount and adapter for A-Mount lenses with all the same abilities.
Also the ghosting was basically limited to the a55/a33.
Yep, but the current a-mount adapters to E-mount just not perfect… and I can not use any IS, as it was built in my a55 body. So I can change up to A77 etc. but I do not want to carry bigger and heavier body. I need the same size or smaller / lighter. And the new a5x series are bigger then the old a55/a33… and I dont see a lots of improvement over IQ…
Correct, ghosting was limited to the very first-generation mirrors found in a33 and a55
any news on new point&shoot APS-C & FF cameras?
Seriously guys, instead if sticking your nose all day long to camera porn news and try to decide which system you should go with, go out there and shoot the freaking photos, there are moments that wont be happening again and you missed them, in family, street…everywhere, that’s the whole point of photography, what behind the camera is the most important factor to make a good shot!!!
Honestly my A900 can give me decent shots for 99% what I shoot, who cares about the noise, remember noise can add excellent characteristics to an image. Go out and shoot something!!!
This statement anchors my believe that Sony continues on with A mount only because it has to currently. They can’t afford to abandon it, but they can’t really afford to develop it. If we all feel this way, then I can only imagine how much worse it will get since the public barely has any idea of what A mount even is.
Even if we get a a99II there is no reason to think it will be received any differently than the A99. More resolution and faster processing doesn’t change anything. It won’t lead in noise performance and that’s what sells cameras these days. It probably won’t have any marketing presence and now must compete with even cheaper FF options from Canon and Nikon. I’m really ticked off right now. Why would I throw thousands more into a system by a company that is expressing such lack of interest over it.
The problem is I don’t think it’s much better over in Canon or Nikon land- safer…yes. Better? No. They just have so much more market share that the steady decline will more than likely be slower. That’s why I bought an Olympus and a bunch of lenses. It’s pretty cheap and right now fuji, olympus and yes…Sony’s FE are the most interesting products on the market. The best approach I think right now is just to enjoy what you have and start thinking about when you’ll exit. It’s now inevitable IMO.
He was very careful how he worded his response. He didnt say they are committed to the mount, he didnt say they will continue to develop it. All he said is that he doesnt see E-mount superceeding A-mount in the immediate future and he “wants to” continue to develop both. Whether he can speak for the future of the mount is unknown. Considering Sony’s recent losses, it doesnt really matter what they “want to” do, they may not be able to.
To me, this Sony response means nothing and is certainly not reassuring.
Sony has lost me with their elusive A mount campaign. It is clear the E mount is being much favored, and the A mount is on its way out. I suspect Sony will eventually encourage the remaining A-mount users (I suspect will make or have already made the switch to CaNikon) to use their E-mount by using their clunky A-to-E-mount adapter.
So although I will keep my a99 and Minolta 80-200, I will sell everything else , and will make a partial switch to Canon, as their lens lineup is way more complete.
Sorry Sony, but you are getting it wrong.
I hear people saying canon has more complete lens line-up and i don’t understand what exactly is missing in Sony line up. 4 versions of 70-200 in canon don’t make any sense to me, without any IS telephotos are a waste and when one is at it; rather buy f2.8. So out of four 70-200 there is only one sensible lens. And then there are third party lenses, which fills the gaps in the lineup very well.
Quite easy:
Canon EF 35mm f/2
Canon EF 85mm f/1.2 USM L II
No f/4 zoom lenses (16-35, 24-70, 70-200)
Some lenses are obsolete and have old Minolta design. The Sony 35mm f/1.4 is a piece of garbage, and the choice of third parties is more limited with A mount.
Some Sony lenses are overpriced. Their 70-200 mm f/2.8 II (which is by the way inferior to the Canon 70-200 f/2.8 II) costs 3 kUSD. No way!
There is 35mm f1.8 and 85 mm f1.4, and anyways one would end up shooting at pretty much the same apertures so that half stop on canon won’t matter if you wand a sharp frame.
F4 are slow, rather save up for f2.8 as they give handheld low light shooting capability.
I will say first shoot with Sony lenses and then make any comments and even if you not happy with Sony 35mm f1.4 buy the Sigma one which is far better then so called canikon lenses.
So there are ways to fill up the gaps, all you have to do is look.
The 35mm f/1.8 is not Full Frame.
The Canon 85 mm f/1.2 is unique and the quality of the Bokeh is no match for the Sony Zeiss 85 mm f/1.4, and I can probably get a used one cheaper than a new Sony Zeiss.
For landscapes, the 16-35 mm f/4 makes a lot of sense, and is sharp all across the range even wide open:
http://www.photozone.de/canon_eos_ff/877-canon_1635_4is?start=1
I tried two copies of the Sigma mounted on my a99. None gave me satisfactory results as they consistently gave me back/front focus while using the outer focus points. The center focus point delivered consistent sharp results though even wide open.
Look at what Canon and Nikon offer in the lens lineups, you will find out that I am not wrong.
Sigma 35mm is better than both the Canon 35mm f2 IS and 35mm f1.4. Sony might be ‘garbage’ but the Canon isn’t much better. The f2 IS is good but the Sigma is better.
Sorry, but the Zeiss 85mm is better across the frame and while the Canon might be cheaper second hand than the Zeiss is new, the Zeiss is definitely cheaper second hand than the Canon is second hand. The Canon is very nice though, it’s their ‘halo’ lens, but the Zeiss 135mm f1.8 is Sony’s are they are rather comparable.
Yes the Canon 16-35mm f4 IS is a big improvement on the otherwise very poor Canon UWA zoom lineup has been.
If you can get a good copy of the Sigma, maybe, but it is a very close call between the Sigma and Canon f/2 (more light fall off wide open) based on photozone. The Sigma is slightly better at f/2, but has no IS, and is large and it is a Sigma (which means the QC is russian roulette).
As for the 85 mm, the Canon is sharper in the center, this is most likely the most important aspect for a 85 mm which is mainly used for portraiture. The Zeiss sharpness in the center is nothing astonishing for the price and it is f/1.4 not f/1.2. (check photozone.de)
CaNikon is upgrading their lens lineup must faster as well.
8-15 fisheye, 14mm, 35mm (Sony’s is too old), 17-40 f/4, 24-105 f/4, 70-200 f/4, 400mm f/4, 85mm USM and 135mm USM (Sony’s ZA are screw-driven), 28-300, tilt-shift lenses, long macro…
Almost no Sony lenses have weather-sealing.
But yeah, Sigma, Tamron and Samyang fill those gaps nicely.
400mm f/5.6. for my amateur budget. Sony has a lot of work to do with a-mount lenses just to fill gaps and, of course, they’re doing nothing. Sad.
+ Canon’s sensor technology is absolute garbage in recent years
I remember reading on your site that you had an A850, do you still have it?
No. I sold it a while ago. I still have one Sony a900 though.
This past week, after shooting A-mount most of my life, I switched to Nikon. Getting used to the D810…and I like it so far. But I think I want to buy one newer A850 because I did keep a few unique lenses. The one I just sold was up near 180,000 actuations.
Hmmm, I would have to check my actuations, but I am pretty sure it is less than 20,000. There are some minor scratches, but nothing really substantial. The sensor is clean as I do my own cleaning, and actually cleaned it very recently.
Let me know if you would be interested. I will sell it with probably 2-3 Sony branded batteries.
The only drawback of using e-mount cameras would be no IS for A-mount lenses. and i am not sure how ibis and on sensor focus can work in tandem as sensor has to be stable in order to focus. So the solution could be to employ the adpater and on putting the same the sensor activates IBIS as it doesn’t have to do any focusing. Just a theory. 🙂
Wow. That’s a really good point. I don’t think I’ve seen anyone else mention that. But it does make sense that it could be wildly complex to have both IBIS and on sensor PDAF.
about A-mount future
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYodehAOlUE
Because we need to trust a Sony rep. I don’t think so.
Exactly what I was going to say…!
Dude that last bit of video showing an A99 just sitting behind the shelf is so rediculous. I mean, the biggest show in the world and your A mount- a system 5 times larger- had zero coverage.
Because it wasn’t their focus this show? I also didn’t see their Cybershot models, do you see the Cybershot owners complain?
Good point. Well, it’s obvious Sony wanted to use Photokina as free advertisement for FE cameras. Hope it worked.
What Seeks said. They were there but not at the forefront because well, they aren’t new. Nobody was gushing over the 5D3 at the Canon stand either.
The other thing is, if you now have seriously limited investment dollars what do you go after? SLT is a stop gap technology anyway. To make the situation worse, A mount lenses aren’t optimized for OSPDAF. Sony gets a clean slate with FE and their head engineer has even talked about how much more useful it is for video.
We’re still stuck with screw drive lenses which I’m sure Sony would love to move completely away from. I’m done ranting, but there is no way I’m moving to Canon. I can’t really even see myself going to Nikon. I don’t care if it’s “safer.” It’s as boring as frozen meat. I’ll stick with my olympus, maybe pick up a fuji and let the dust settle. My Sony lenses didn’t stop working after this announcement so whatever. I’m pretty sure we have a couple of more years before the crap really hits the fan anyway. It’s just that we now know it’s coming.
What do you think about the Panasonic GH4?
Never used it. Hear it’s fantastic though.
For me the choice was easy, continue using my A-Mounts (and even acquiring a few more) while getting the benefit of mirrorless in the same body and not have to have lenses for two different systems. I more or less left Sony for a 6D and various mirrorless (mostly Olympus and Fuji) and kept the A-Mount lenses around, when A7 series came out bought A7 in replacement of mirrorless and used it for all the stuff I supposedly kept my 6D for… so ditched the 6D as well.
Love the Sony A7 series, just think if Sony didn’t have lenses for it they should pack the box with 3rd party lens adapters, so we don’t have to shell out another $1000 on those…or at least ad a charger to he package.
Seriously though I liked his final answer ” we keep putting out new products because we like the challenge”….hope they put the effort into follow-through and perfecting those products.
I think what’s caused a lot of division between E-mounters and A-mounters is that the E-mount has attracted new blood — especially all the A7 adopters coming from the Canon and Nikon world — who look at the A-mount and ask “Why? What’s the point in Sony having that system, too?” It’s understandable from their perspective that if they’ve never considered a Sony system before (when it was just the A-mount), then in their eyes that “old” system only serves to drag Sony’s reputation down among pros and confuse buyers, whereas the E-mount actually gave them some incentive to either switch or at least make a Sony their second or third camera.
And this in turn has triggered some pretty negative, defensive, and childish attacks from the A-mount crowd (myself included) toward the recent E-mount adopters. I’m sorry about that. There’s definitely an “I was here first!” mentality to some of us that is coming across badly and overshadowing our bigger concerns: that we’ve invested a lot in a system that has core features we really like, and we want to see more bodies and lenses in the future that natively support those features. We want to know that we aren’t at a technological dead-end, and that when 54MP sensors (or whatever) come along, we won’t have to switch mounts to have access to this new stuff.
And E-mounters would do well to realize that the A-mount can’t yet be orphaned. It serves too many uses that the E-mount bodies aren’t yet suited to. Besides, make no mistake: Sony is expecting half of your lens ecosystem to be A-mount. Don’t believe me? Why didn’t you get an 85mm portrait lens? Because it already exists in A-mount. Why did you get a 35/1.4 and a 28/2? Because A-mounters asked for these for a long time, and it made more sense to put them on E-mount and incentivize a switch.
In fact, I’d go so far as to say that at least for the next few years, don’t expect any 2.8 zooms or fast primes in any focal length that is already covered via A-mount. Sony expects you to use adapters and A-mount lenses until they’ve finished making E-mount lenses that fill all the other gaps. Then, and only then, they might get around to making native E-mount versions of these.
I personally believe that Sony will still trickle out a few more A-mount cameras, and maybe even an updated lens or two, if it’s more cost effective to add a coating or SSM to an existing design rather than redesign it for E-mount. But I think all new lens development — including the rumored 24-105/4 — will go directly to E-mount. I really don’t see this playing out any other way.
I have a friend who’s a liaison to Sony’s Playstation engineering in Japan. It’s totally a longshot and probably way out of his area, but I’ve sent him a few questions to see if he’s heard anything. Will let you know.
A-mount serves too many uses that E-mounts aren’t yet suited to?
In a world of finite resources to devote to these things, said uses don’t amount to a hill of beans–especially when you consider the “dumbing-down” of photography, combined with the increasing capability of non-DLSR systems. What do wedding and product photographers care? Their customers’ standards have dropped precipitously, to the point where they are now easily within range of non-DSLR capabilities.
Action photography is mere esoterica, from an economic perspective. A micro-niche, at best. Consumer goods are where it’s at, and because Sony doesn’t already have the pro stills market, maybe it should cut its losses and better apply scarce resources to the consumer stills market.
As you can tell, I’m beginning to be converted, and am now playing devil’s advocate.
And all of those are valid points. They’re almost certainly the same ones Sony is seeing, and why the success of the E-mount is prompting a build-out of the system. It further helps that the all-electronic mount is more in keeping with their consumer electronics expertise.
Actually I’ve been a long time A-Mount user and visitor of this site back when comments would occur in single digits. Sony ussers complained then and they complain now, mostly for the same reasons. However, most recently with FE cameras I guess that E-Mount is becoming more and more of a threat in replacing A-Mount and with as you say, new lenses coming for it that Sony shooters have been asking for in A-Mount for a long time (35mm f1.4 Zeiss, 90mm Macro G, 70-200mm f4) I think they think the time is now.
But I agree with you on most of what you say.
Haha, I know you’ve been around a long time. I used to lurk here years ago but didn’t participate much. Good to see some of the old guard still around.
“It serves too many uses that the E-mount bodies aren’t yet suited to.”
E-mount users don’t care about such uses.
“Sony is expecting half of your lens ecosystem to be A-mount.”
E-mount users don’t care about lens ecosystems.
“Why didn’t you get an 85mm portrait lens?”
Because E-mount users don’t need or want any such lens.
“Why did you get a 35/1.4 and a 28/2?”
Because they are easy to make, relatively cheap, and convenient for “street shooting”, something that E-mount amateurs like to do.
“for the next few years, don’t expect any 2.8 zooms or fast primes in any focal length that is already covered via A-mount.”
E-mount users NEVER expected, or cared about, such things.
You are really looking at things from a single perspective.
And you’re not? Everything you mentioned was from an E-mounter’s supposed perspective, and not even correct for that matter. Do you speak for ALL of the E-mount shooters?
Have you even been paying attention to the number of E-mount users who have said f/4 is too slow for the zooms? Or the number who were disappointed that — despite the amount of lenses released at Photokina — they didn’t get a fast portrait prime?
Don’t project your myopia onto me. I at least am paying attention.
My polarized points were made in response to your own, for purposes of illustration.
Have you been paying attention to the number of E-mount users who don’t care? It is vastly greater than those who do. And we are talking about the future, about not current E-mount users, but about the target markets of the future.
I travel. I see E-mount users, and I talk to them. They don’t care, with the exception of some FE adopters–who are so far but a drop in the E-mount bucket, as acknowledged by Sony.
“not even correct”
Really? Like what? And how do you know?
You may very well be paying attention…
…to the wrong things.
“we’ve invested a lot in a system that has core features we really like,
and we want to see more bodies and lenses in the future that natively
support those features. We want to know that we aren’t at a
technological dead-end, and that when 54MP sensors (or whatever) come
along, we won’t have to switch mounts to have access to this new stuff.”
I am in this boat with you, BTW.
The difference is that I am not blinded to the business realities to which Sony has to pay attention.
You seem to think I can’t see things from Sony’s perspective. Of course I can. They have a business to run, and they go where the profit and future are. If that’s solely E-mount, so be it. I like the E-mount. I’ve had a NEX-5 and NEX-6, and enjoyed both a lot.
The complaint I have — and the one I’m trying to underscore without denigrating E-mount users — is that Sony has given the insight to E-mount users as to the future of the mount, but A-mount users are in limbo. We’re voicing our concerns as a result, and it’s being taken the wrong way by other Sony users, even though they currently have the reverse problem: a system that is partly reliant on our legacy lenses in order to be complete.
Whether you personally feel a “complete” system is important to you is irrelevant. If it’s a factor to someone considering buying an E-mount camera from within the Sony world, then it stands to reason that at least some users from outside the Sony camp are basing their decisions of switching on what lenses are on offer. And to that end, Sony has a mishmash that is a mess to current and future users alike.
You kinda hit the nail on the head about the A7 buyers. Most of us did come from real DSLR systems, and we do look at A-mount and wonder why. When I hear A-mount users try to denigrate E-mount, all I can do is laugh. Having used both Nikon and digital medium format, I look at A-mount users and wonder why they didn’t use a real system with real 3rd party support and real pro support.
I understand the anguish, but A-mount is a niche within a niche. You guys need to look at how the 99% of the non A-mount users out there view it. I hear the, “oh, had Sony invested in A-mount, it coulda been a contender.” Ok… we’re all free to believe what we want to believe. If both Olympus and Leica decided they couldn’t compete in the DSLR market, you actually think Sony did? I won’t argue this. We can all have our opinions. Most E-mount users look at A-mount the same way that m43, Fuji, Canon, Nikon users look at A-mount. All mounts needs to justify themselves. If A-mount had a chance, they would have captured more hearts and minds outside of the 1% of users out there who own A-mount cameras.
At some point, everyone must face reality. A lot of mounts have been abandoned in the past. It is understandable to get upset that your horse in the race might not win, but then you must pick yourself up and move on. If Sony put more effort into A-mount, who will they convince in the shrinking DSLR space to switch? Will they be able to convince the hordes of people moving to mirrorless for lighter wegith to move to A-mount? Do you people actually believe all A-mount owners left are die hard fans who are not considering a move to mirrorless? In other words, even if Sony made a push in A-mount, isn’t it already shrinking through natural process (shrinking camera market, movement to mirrorless)? Sony is a company in bad financial shape. They need to start thinking wisely about how they spend their R&D money.
I’m definitely not going to put down the E-mount or its users, as that serves no purpose. Hell, I use the E-mount as well, and it’s great for almost everything I need it to be.
The problem in “letting go,” as it were, is that there are still things the A-mount has going for it that no one else does:
1. The only full frame cameras with in-body stabilization (meaning every prime gets stabilized, even legacy ones).
2. The world’s best Live View system via SLT mirror, showing real-time exposure, WB, and creative style corrections.
3. Continuous AF during exposures via SLT mirror.
4. The only SLR-styled cameras with EVF.
5. The only full frame cameras with fully articulated screens.
6. The only SLR-styled cameras that have eliminated mirror slap.
I’m sure I’m leaving out a lot more, as well. These are the things we’d be giving up by going to another brand. And while we’d have 2 and 6 with an E-mount camera and 3 with an adapter, currently we would still be losing 1, 4, and 5. That’s a bitter pill to swallow. No one likes to move backwards, even if there are definite benefits to the E-mount system that the A-mount doesn’t have.
Not that I’m disagreeing with you, but from the perspective of someone coming from Canon or Nikon you get a lot of technology you didn’t have before when you go to E-mount. For A-mount shooters, you forfeit technology you already had. That’s why we “whine” about it.
I’m definitely not going to put down the E-mount or its users, as that serves no purpose. In fact, I use the E-mount as well, and it’s great for almost everything I need it to be.
The problem in “letting go,” as it were, is that there are still things the A-mount has going for it that no one else does:
1. The only full frame cameras
with in-body stabilization (meaning every prime gets stabilized, even legacy
ones).
2. The world’s best Live View system via SLT mirror, showing real-time
exposure, WB, and creative style corrections.
3. Continuous AF during exposures via SLT mirror.
4. The only SLR-styled cameras with EVF.
5. The only full frame cameras with fully articulated screens.
6. The only SLR-styled cameras that have eliminated mirror slap.
I’m sure I’m leaving out a lot more, as well. These are the things we’d be giving up by going to another brand. And while we’d have 2 and 6 with an E-mount camera and 3 with an adapter, currently we would still be losing 1, 4, and 5. That’s a bitter pill to swallow. No one likes to move backwards, even if there are definite benefits to the E-mount system that the A-mount doesn’t have.
Not that I’m disagreeing with you, but from the perspective of someone coming from Canon or Nikon you get a lot of technology you didn’t have before when you go to E-mount. For A-mount shooters, you forfeit technology you already had.
That’s why we “whine” about it.
Your a fuc*ing troll. If you were a real photographer you’d know people use the tools they are most comfortable with.
While I don’t really like hearing what he wrote (I do NOT want the A mount to die – I just picked up my A77ii!!), that was about as far from a troll post as it could be. Everything was true, except maybe his percentages. While Sony isn’t in bad shape because of their camera division, they are definitely not doing well as a whole. He is right, not trolling…
You should have your mouth washed with soap. How come so many Americans posting here do not seem to have any kind of manners?
Sony doesn’t care about A-mount users.
And maybe they’re right.
The future is not “photographers”, that market is tiny compared to the everyman market, in terms of volume and dollars. So Asian girls like the E-mount? There are vastly more of them in the world than there are “photographers”, and they will, and do, spend a heck of a lot more money, and have a much greater desire for novelty.
Remember, there is an entirely new crop of these people every 5 years or so…and the older crops never really mature, they just get older, but keep the same goals and mentality.
From a business perspective I have to say that Sony is correct in going after this market. They have money, they spend it, they have short attention spans, and crave novelty and fashion. And it’s not restricted to just Asian girls, either.
Heck, E-mount even has higher-end FE, with more expensive lenses now, for the GUYS who have disposable income and want to take pictures, but not necessarily “be photographers”.
There are many examples of this dynamic. The BMW M-series sells a great many units, but is nowhere near a professional race car in any way, in terms of performance.
I also think it might be wise of them to drop the A-mount. People come on here and warn that they could just as easily kill FE-mount, but who cares? Certainly not those buying E/FE-mount, who have short memories and zero attention span. To them, maybe/what if/potentially is just a lot of noise. What do they care if their systems are obsoleted?
To these people, their gear is obsoleted every time a new color palette hits the market–hence you have skins for your phone.
And no, several thousand dollars for FE-mount gear is nothing to sneeze at, but you know what? A lot of people in the world have a lot of money, and it doesn’t necessarily mean much to them to spend a couple of grand and then have something worthless in a couple of years.
Unlike “photographers”, who are often scraping by, and who seek value in function and reliability.
I say all this because even I like the A7 body. I do not make my regular living by photography, although I have sold several works as artistic pieces. I am in an in-between wasteland–I want value in terms of functionality and reliability, but I don’t need the day-in-day-out workhorse tool that is the DSLR form factor/layout.
For me, the A7 series is looking pretty decent. Actually, the RX100 series is looking great, too.
You mad bro? Sorry us stupid FE mount guys have slowed down A mount. We are too stupid to notice or care.
You seem to be in some form of passive-aggressive fit, claiming the E-mount is for Asian girls, people with short attention spans, people with disposable income who aren’t necessarily photographers. All of your statements are coming across as derogatory to the platform as being a professional tool, and yet… you claim it looks good to you.
If that’s the case, fine: buy into it and be done with it. If your needs are less than pro, and you feel the system suits you, I don’t see what the problem is. I’m not sure what statement you’re trying to make, unless you’re saying that everyone else should give up professional careers in photography and embrace what you feel is an amateur platform.
Are you sure you aren’t just torn because you feel cheated by Sony, and are acting out?
The point I’m trying to make is that ditching A-mount could very well be a sound business move by Sony.
And now that their financials have been released, and the first time since 1958 they won’t be paying a dividend, the bottom line rules.
They have already killed A-mount, they just want to be able to sell existing stock, and break even on tooling.
“Derogatory to the platform”?
lol
I hope that you know as well as I do that it is the photographer behind the camera that matters.
“The problem” is that this place can be an echo chamber. I understand the feeling of being butt-hurt, I have a bunch of nice A-mount stuff myself–but once you accept a reality that is out of your control, the continued whining by others becomes tiresome.
Here’s Matt Granger’s Photokina interview. He asks him point blank about the future of A-mount. See the video to hear the answer. http://youtu.be/FYodehAOlUE
That was… uncomfortable. That’s the only word I can think of.
Didn’t he talk fast?!
Elpha’s are cutish
Alpha’s are brutish
The lineup is fuller that way
Cute may adapt
Brutish is scrapped
The victim of Sony foul play
When they say Emount, they really mean FE – us Nex users are left to fend for ourselves. The main, no, only, reason I’m heading back to Nikon.
What are you waiting for in E-Mount for crop?
A useable macro, a decent wide angle prime, a non-Zeiss (read: affordable) 24-26mm prime. The forthcoming 90mm macro might suffice, through 135mm is pretty long. I’d love to have a pancake that can compete with the Fuji 23mm that doesn’t cost as much as the camera. Besides – the FE lenses cost too much for all that extra glass to justify their use on crop. Where’s the nifty 50?
I don’t see the intense desire for APS-C only lenses.
Yes, they might be a bit lighter and smaller, but the 35/2.8 and 55/1.8 are hardly behemoths. Plus APS-C cameras will benefit from the image circle sweet spot of FF lenses.
The upcoming 90mm macro and 28mm f/2 will be great lenses for APS-C.
Perhaps you have a spare $2000 lying around for TWO lenses, but I do not. Zeiss lenses are useless to those with budgets – I see the word Zeiss and know before I look that I will never own it. If you go the BH and look up FE lenses, the cheapest prime is $500 – and it’s a Mitakon. The 90mm macro? $1500. 28 f2 – guessing $500. They’re pricing us out. My only hope is Sigma/Tamron.
The Sony adaptors opens up FE cameras to dozens of budget minolta options. Great lenses are available (used) for under $100.
For aps-c, crop lenses make sense for ultra wide lengths. A full frame 16-35 is only 33mm at the wide end on an aps-c. For standard to long focal lengths, it’s not ideal in my view for future proofing yourself in case a user might go to full frame.
OMG! http://i.imgur.com/NN7ozzr.png
In theory they want, but they are not right now. They have basically 4 different “formats” APS-C A-mount, APS-C E-mount, FF A-mount and FF E-mount. Right now, only ONE of those 4 is getting support, it’s pretty obvious which one are being neglected.
Well, I’d say their APS-C line-up is complete. Well, maybe a 24mm is missing.
Anyway, it’s better than Canon’s APS-C line-up.
The only company who has better DSLR APS-C line-up is Pentax.
I’m guessing you don’t use an APS-C Sony camera. Just a guess.
I’m using A65.
give up that a mount and switch to e-mount, we have the wonderful zeiss 24mm f1.8
drop the ‘come to the dark side, we have cookies’ routine 🙂
We have the FF 24mm f/2.0 which is about 100x better.
i don’t get why every time an article is posted about a new lens, it always has to devolve into a argument about e-mount vs a-mount. nobody really cares, we’re just happy to see new lens. can’t we all just be happy to see sony offering new lens and move on? or at the very least critique the lens itself, There’s literally no value added when all you do is complain about the lack of a-mount support.
COVER YOUR LOGO WITH TAPE
Around the world everyone cover your logo with tape to support the dying A mount.
Any tape or be creative and share your tape story.
Spread the word!
Have a different camera..cover your logo too show us your support!
There must be a lot e mount high end cameras especially video cameras coming soon. Otherwise what’s the point of the new 28_135 new lens, the fs7 is only a super 35mm video camera. Also, ziess loxia has has the `de_click` key to allow smooth aperture ring for video, that means ziess also knows that sony e mount high end video camera is coming soon, i hope it’s vg900 mark 2, but if sony announce the new f65 with full frame sensor, I’m not surprised.
Big announcements coming in January supposedly. Another happy new year for e-mount fans, I’m sure.
E-mount was also developed by / for the video division to unify mounting / lens production (like the MIS).
“And in Europe, thanks to the Minolta heritage, many customers own Alpha lenses and these customers still want to use their lenses on current Alpha bodies”
Note the loaded keywords which betray the reality behind all the obfuscation: “heritage”, “in Europe”, “still”.
I think he might have been saying that because they were in Europe at the time, they are managers responsible for Europe, and as they stated elsewhere they have no authority to talk about stuff outside Europe…
I like the banner as it says Make believe: Alpha Sony! Spot on. Sony’s statment about the survival of the A-mount is pure make believe. Sony does not have the resources to continue to develop both lines of products. And why should they anyway. Mirrors, even if they are fixed, are an anachronism.