[shoplink 28570 ebay]Panasonic’s new FZ1000[/shoplink] is forcing Sony to react quickly. I am not surprised to have received that rumor from an anonymous source:
Sony Cyber-shot DSC-RX20, mid Oct 2014, Same Sensor (20,1 MP, 1″), Same lens (24-200 F2.8), little ergonomical upgrade, 4K video Recording, XAVC-S Codec just like at AX100, 1080p frame rates remains the same, but at 720p @ 120fps will be possibile. S-LOG2 will not be available. Price 1300 USD/1050 GBP, Predecessor remains in the market, with a 100-200 USD price drop.
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About time! 🙂
They will probably announce RX100 M4 with a 4K soon.
There will be no mark 4, we don’t use the number “4”. Rx 200 will be out instead
Neither do the Japanese designers of the Panasonic GH4.
Or the F4, D4 etc…
And when more than 37 people have 4K televisions and the means to make use of them we’ll be nicely placed to create films for them!
Yes, I know there are more than 37 in the world, but this scramble for 4K from this side of the process seems to me unbalanced. Perhaps when it becomes close to being a widespread standard for broadcast then it would make sense. Unfortunately, though, we have manufacturers pushing for 8K and beyond even when basic HD is still in the minority!
Most of my TV channels are broadcasted in FHD and UHD TV’s are starting to sell in masses too. Which mainly leaves content lacking (other than pictures and a handful of streamed content). And this is where selling 4K cameras comes into play too.
HD is not in the minority.
And if the only thing we created content for was TODAY, you’d make sense. 4k is important.
To quote one of many:
“The proportion of global TV households watching HD programming is
expected to grow from under 14% at the end of last year to almost 42% by
the end of 2017, according to TBI-publisher Informa Telecoms &
Media’s latest Global HDTV Forecasts report”
Now I don’t know about you, but I thought below 50% was the very definition of minority.
I do agree with you, though, about creating content for the future. However, it’s a difficult thing to judge how much of that would be produced on such cameras, as opposed to the professional sector.
I worry that there is too much emphasis on these ‘bells and whistles’ which have very little immediate worth and yet force prices up, together with an endless stream of incremental upgrades that don’t bring real benefits yet decimate second hand values.
“Global” includes a lot of 3rd world and other less developed countries too. Those aren’t really representative for the market (where these cameras and TV’s will mostly sell) discussed here to begin with.
Out of curiosity, how many of you and your friends and colleagues own a 4K television and watch 4K television channels?
it´s not only for viewing.. 4k is great for editing and then resampling to full hd. but you morons dont get that… ever…
Your experience may be different to mine, but the vast bulk of video is separated into two areas: professional and amateur. On the face of it, fairly obvious, but it has more significance.
Generally, professional is for broadcast, so although what you say about editing and resampling is, technically, correct, there is no facility for broadcasting 4K yet. The standard has only just been agreed in Europe!
Furthermore, it is extremely unlikely they will be concerned with a Sony RX10 or 20. Despite the fact that I’m certain they could do the job, how many such cameras do you see being used in the news?
Again, you might point to the cinema and films, but as a percentage the market is small and if anyone uses something different it’s a big news story: ‘Wow, they shot the whole film on a …!’
As to amateur, watching endless garbage clips on Youtube or hour after hour of tedious holiday and tourist footage does not really make a case for 4K.
Yes, I know there will be some who can take it and run with it, but at present those numbers are tiny, but you morons don’t get that…
And this is where you contradict yourself. You acknowledge that the RX series is not targeted at professionals for movie making, yet keep harping on the lack of professional support in terms of broadcasting.
The consumer will be able to create their own 4K footage and display it on their own devices (like they already can). Broadcasting will follow. Someone has to lay the egg to get another chicken.
I’ve never ‘harped on’ about anything!
All I have done is question the immediate need for 4K in such products and the mad stampede to have it in consumer cameras.
This desperation to have ‘the very latest’ just creates an unsustainable churning over of new models, each of which will lose money as not enough units will shift before the next improvement, and I can guess who will be at the top of the moaning heap when Sony and every other company goes belly up as a consequence!
..”each of which will lose money as not enough units will shift before the next improvement..”
Another bold assumption, especially since especially if little changes, there are little extra costs involved for Sony. And the source stated that the older model will be sold alongside, similar to the RX100 range.
Which is especially ironic, since Sony stated that their higher end compact cameras are currently doing very well in terms of sales and showing large growth, contrary to the compact market in general.
It’s not such a bold statement viewed against the reality of most of the global electronics companies losing bucketloads of money every.
The reality is that there are diminishing returns for each new product. Occasionally one will be a significant success, but the large numbers, even based on similar production lines have been and will continue to lose money.
It’s not what I want, although those who make points against me seem to imply that. I’d love to have everything do everyhting and everyone to have 16K televisions with endless streamed content of the highest quality, but life’s not like that, unfortunately.
So I repeat, this headlong dash to squeeze every advantage into every new model is likely to end in tears.
Let’s not enter the fallacies and specifically straw men.
You argued that even HD was a minority. I said most channels here (>70%) broadcast in FHD already (we mostly watch FHD) and market reports show a surge in 4K televisions, helped by the fact that you can already buy them at or below $1k. What’s required then is more 4K content and this is where 4K cameras help.
I’m beginning to suspect you are in the US, and of course the world revolves around you and everywhere else is insignificant…
Your suspicions are clouding your thinking. I’m in Europe.
And for that matter, the US and Europe are obviously some of the prime target markets for these types of cameras (and TV’s). Because of a relative high penetration of higher resolution formats and expensive electronics in general. It’s not rocket science and has nothing to do with what *I* find significant or not.
TVs have nothing to do with it. Did you buy a 16, 18, 20, 24… megapixel camera because you hang all your prints on an advertising billboard? No. You crop, you downsample for crisp detail, you process for high ISO noise, and you print 10×8″ or view them on a 1080p monitor.
Same thing goes for shooting 4k video. It gives you more data to produce better output, even if you just view at 1080p or want to grab decent quality stills.
What, 1300 USD / 1300 Euro ??? Sony is insane, for that price you have the A77m2 !!!
Don’t make everyone explain this all over again. Of course you can’t.
sure, but you don’t have a 24-200 F2.8 Zeiss lens
Many amateur photographers only want 1 lens and still want the real experience. I prefer primes that’s why i own about 15 primes 🙂
With that price, the FZ1000 remains a very tempting option. Sony should bring more improvements to RX20 and not rush it.
RX10 was quite good. The only letdowns were the low-res Viewfinder & the AVCHD Codec. The lens is great & the build quality is nice. Ergonomics are very good. They have fixed the Codec with a firmware update. I hope they fix the viewfinder in the RX20 & adding 4K is a nice upgrade. If I was in the market for this type of camera, right now I would go with the Panasonic, but lets see how this one shapes up.
The viewfinder is fine. Codec is now fine. Panasonic has too many compromises for me for this style of camera. 4K would be nice but only if it is better implemented than the Panasonic would I upgrade my RX10.
makes sense…
React quickly? This wouldn’t be a reaction at all, just the obvious evolution of that model. Most of the shooters I know were surprised by the specs on the original RX10 (I shot one for 6 months as an experiment) but were also kinda surprised that it LACKED 4k….and that was almost a year ago.
If the sensor and lens stay the same, and all they add is 4k and some tweaks, it should be priced $999, and it should drive the old model down to $799.
And it’s in NO WAY a response to Panasonic. It’s something they’ve been working on for a year.
I think Sony would have waited with 4K on *cheapish* cameras for as long as there was no competition.
Thank you Panasonic.
Cheapish cameras? What on Earth are you talking about. They put it in their PHONES this year. And the RX10 was the most expensive camera in it’s class.
Since when has Sony EVER intentionally dragged behind the competition…if anything, Sony is notorious for putting tech out there before people understand or can use it.
Waited? Just absurd.
Oh I see, you’re here to protect Sony’s ego. Do you honestly think it was their intention to deliver 4K and they just forgot to add it? LMAO! You are the definition of a fan boy.
They put 4k in their PHONES this year, idiot…..Sony started pushing 4k years ago…
In fact, you just called it “4k” which is Sony’s term for it, not the industry’s.
The sensor, processor, RAM and codecs all existed for the RX10 to shoot 4k, so yes, I was surprised they didn’t include it, but more than likely they hadn’t solved the heat problem yet.
But if you seriously believe that Sony hasn’t been….for a VERY VERY long time…been planning to add 4k to absolutely everything they can, you’re kinda clueless.
Sony has been making 4k a MISSION.
Olympus E-M1 style viewfinder or go BUST !!!
I’ve been waiting for that to happen. But to compete with FZ1000 Sony also needs to upgrade the EVF and AF Speed.
Then Panasonic have to upgrade the body, weather sealing, controls, LCD display, ND filter, lens, headphone socket and audio options plus better 1080p support to compete with the Sony 😉
Why should they name it RX20 and not RX10-II? This alone seems a sign for a fake rumor here.
awesome!
Trollin trollin trollin….keep those trolls a trollin.
Rx 20 sounds right. It’s a 2k line
4K….4K….4K….whinge…whinge…whine…whine…
Wanna go shoot videos…then go and get a video camera. They are cheap, plentiful and yes, even designed for the job.
Why try to make a stills camera into something it was never designed to be and by doing so, compromising the sensor etc. etc. Just think how good real pictures could be if it weren’t for the compromises being made in the name of video.
And while we’re about it, how come Sony jump when one manufacturer brings out another small pocket camera when they do nothing when manufacturers are leaping ahead with regard to DSLR’s.
Just curious: how is current sensor design compromising stills-quality for video ?
Well, fast low resolution readout needed for video could very well compromise sensor optimization for full resolution still imaging, but only a handful of engineers working in this very field are qualified to discuss this. Chances that one of them is on this website are absolutely ZERO.
“Only a handful of engineers working in this very field are qualified to discuss this.”
– And your not one of them. – So STFU!
You’re or you are, Mr Engineer.
The pictures are not compromised by offering (4K) video. Did you take that cool-aid drink Nikon served with the Df too?
shut up moron…
Ahhhh…did diddums get upset because he just found out that there were dedicated cameras for video or is he just upset that someone might see my post and say…’Er, we wondered why we wern’t selling a lot of our fully dedicated, amazing high zoom, 4K, small video cams. We’re shooting ourselves in the foot here, lets keep cameras for taking pictures and dedicate the sensors and firmware to that purpose and then we’ll sell more of our amazing compact 4K dedicated video cams and let people have the best videos AND the best still pictures.
Buy a Df. Yeah, thought not.
Let me guess, we can ALL be SO thankful to Panasonic right? Yep, the RX10 is cr@p without 4K. It just looks so impressive right there on the spec sheet.
Anyway it is a logical upgrade at a logical time with yearly updates like the RX100.
Well without FZ1000 the RX10 would still be 200€ more where I live.
Not really, maybe the RRP but prices drop that much in this period normally anyway.
Crap? Really? With that lens and that sensor? Have you ever used one?
RX10 you mean? Yeah I own one. It’s called sarcasm my friend.
Sorry – thought I was talking to a troll there and unintentionally became one myself! I have an RX10 too!
abortabort and Bigdaveonline. you both have been using a camera that will feel like like junk when the NX1 arrives. Enjoy your cameras for a few more weeks or sell them now before none willing to take them for free.
If Sony stays in such [positively] reactive mood, may be we’ll see one more version of LX100 soon. After all, we already have two – counting Leica :)…
Arri just came out with the Alexa 65. 4K is old news. Come on, Sony. Give us 8K. Now! We want a reason to have a dual processor Haswell E workstation with 32gb-64gb of DDR4 and Windows 9. And with SSD prices dropping, we can have those RAID setups with 8tbs or more of fast SSDs to ingest and edit the data stream. We’re waiting Sony!
You know Sony already does an 8K camera right?has for over 12 months from memory.
The previous comment was meant to be snarky. People obsess way too much about gear and don’t spend enough time honing the technical and creative aspects of their vocation/avocation/hobby/…
I can only buy gear, not creativity with my money. Are you saying we should randomly spend our hard earned money and try to be creative with the overpriced junk we bought? Why would you use 1080p when you can buy 4K capable devices for the same (or lower) price? Being obsessed about gear and not being an ignorant are not the same.
Of course you should do your research and buy what you want. It’s unfortunate that many people go to the latest thing without mastering the tool that they already have. Galen Rowell used a 24mm prime for many of his great photographs. Art Wolfe has a rather limited set of equipment (compared to many other people taking photographs) and manages to produce moving and evocative images. On a nofilmschool article, some DPs are talking about 1080P vs 4K and higher resolution imaging. To each his own. Just hoping that people hone their craft as well as they hone their equipment selection.
Let me guess, just new firmware RX10 , and new sign rx20 . Clever like always .
SonyCyberShotRumors.com, is that you?
It wont compete with the FZ1000 at that price!
But! If this is out by the end of the year, I dunno if I’ll go for the RX20 or LX100 now… Hmmm…. Probably this for the range and audio-in socket.
panasonic really jump on sony on price/performance at both rx10 and rx100
that lx100 and fz1000 are really at top in compact cameras now
wait… did compact cameras were not killed by smartphones? anyway…
sensor probably its the same in 4 cameras, lenses i bet are equaly good or with minimal advantage one or the other, built quality maybe sony has an edge, ergonomics and controls panasonic has an edge, but software (or what a camera can do) its clearly far better panasonic
pd
who cares about 4K? do you really think all smartphones that can record 4K, do it in good quality? not matter the procesor or sensor, that tiny lense can not give you 4K, 1″ lenses are better but can not truly give you 4K, much less with crap current sensor technology and crap codecs, i will take anyday just a FULL HD sensor with global shutter, non bayer crap, better codec and more fps, than the crap 4K we get, we are looking a video K race just like the cpu mehagertz race or picture megapixel race, 2K, 3K, 4K, 8K… resolution in video is NOT the only thing that matters.
The LX100 has a m4/3 sensor.
no..
Lense; f1,8 18-50 straight, no suba subba please not.
Codec: 10 bit Super.sx.. and so on.
Price: 499,-
Panasonic runs lines round not now G7 ( 4k) ( 499,-) because
one dupa-show for 2015..but i forgot…most chicks have only a memory-ram of 2 days..
i forgot..waht? pipipi..
🙂
What are you talking about ?
and yes the superb image of low expensive Nikon d3300-but only with a sharper
image = best of full-hd.. so we also in private would not care in 4k-214-15,…and then
the price-masaker in silllimarket letz out all for some bukcs…
and i am nOT THANKFULL till i must paY 0 ,- $ then i will be thankfull..
also 0,-$ bending smartphones
0,-$ for the trash mac donnalds calls food
… that is the truht..you can all read in..dont now…
i am thankfull for all the peole who work for freedom.
i am tahnkfull for the workers in hospital
.. 🙂
Either you’re nuts, or you’re the King of the Trolls. Impressive either way.
How about sony gives RX10 owners a FW update to allow our RX10s to do 4K? Now that would be very welcome!
4k 50/60p and I’ll buy one
Any news about the viewfinder? Is it updated to the level of pana/leica?
No thanks! I’ll be buying NX1. 4K on APSC. That’s all I need. Bye bye Sony. Thanks for all the fish.
To be honest. RX10 is doomed from the beginning. It has got nothing impressive needs wise. More importantly it’s not future proof, with its tiny sensor and measly HD video. It really serves no professional segment, Sony has really no sense of product segmentation and hence no sense of product usefulness. It’s about time they make products that serve specific needs. instead of cobbling together some new tech into a camera that no one has any use of.
whatever you say, Samsung….
And a 24-200/2.8 lens for it? All for $1000?
RX20 – a firmware upgrade for RX10 for $1,300. 🙂
They’d better add OSPDAF for it.